[governance] Statement by IGC supporting rights and principles

Tue Sep 8 12:44:03 EDT 2009

My concurrence in McTims remarks.

I believe in this situation an asterik is appropriate. Then not rewording or redrafting but simply linking to this thread.  When good people publicly air their concerns and have respectful debate on an issue it should be shared. It also may be repeated but understanding will be better with a bit of history.

We cannot ignore that some differences exist between countries and rights. It is not helpful to always criticize or attack.  But it is never helpful to pretend that it does not exist.

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:

From: McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [governance] Statement by IGC supporting rights and principles
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, "Carlos A. Afonso" <ca at cafonso.ca>
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 1:06 PM

This is a red letter day, not only does Carlos agree with me, but I
find that PJS formulation is ok!! Having said that, I prefer the CA
version.

rgds,
McTim

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Carlos A. Afonso<ca at cafonso.ca> wrote:
> I agree with McTim's concern, and would suggest that "Of particular
> concern are the policies that many governments are pursuing at the
> national level" be replaced by "Of particular concern are the
> restrictive policies that several governments are pursuing at the
> national level."
>
> --c.a.
>
> Meryem Marzouki wrote:
>> This v.3 is fine with me. Thanks Lisa.
>> Best,
>> Meryem
>>
>> Le 8 sept. 09 à 13:03, Lisa Horner a écrit :
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I agree that the original wording was too sweeping, but also think
>>> that Meryem's point that it's not just governments who are the
>>> culprits is an important one.  Companies are obviously involved in
>>> online censorship and privacy violations, whether wittingly or
>>> unwittingly, and many are pushing for overly restrictive copyright
>>> which can limit access to information and expression.  Organisations
>>> and individuals who are involved in technological design and standard
>>> setting also need to be aware of their impact on the nature of
>>> communications technologies and whether they support or undermine
>>> human rights.
>>>
>>> However, as has already been discussed, we need to strike a balance
>>> between a general, awareness-raising statement and being explicit
>>> enough so as not to confuse/mislead.  How about:
>>>
>>> "Fundamental human rights such as the rights to freedom of
>>> expression, privacy and education are threatened by some internet
>>> governance processes and practices.  Of particular concern are the
>>> policies that many governments are pursuing at the national level."
>>>
>>> New draft statement 3 pasted below, incorporating Meryem's
>>> suggestions about rights instruments.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lisa
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>
>>> DRAFT STATEMENT (v.3)
>>>
>>> The Caucus [and undersigned DCs] repeat their request that the
>>> programme for IGF-4 in Egypt gives the required attention to human
>>> rights.  The WSIS Declaration and Tunis Agenda reaffirmed the
>>> centrality of human rights in the information society, but human
>>> rights and associated principles have received very little attention
>>> at the IGF so far.  This is problematic as:
>>>
>>> *    Fundamental human rights such as the rights to freedom of
>>> expression, privacy and education are threatened by some internet
>>> governance processes and practices.  Of particular concern are the
>>> policies that many governments are pursuing at the national level.
>>> *    The internet presents new opportunities for upholding and
>>> advancing human rights, for example through enhancing access to
>>> knowledge and resources. It is vital that we build on and enhance
>>> these opportunities.
>>> *    International human rights instruments are legally binding.
>>> Governments who have signed these covenants have a legal obligation
>>> and responsibility to uphold their citizens' human rights actively,
>>> in the Internet era as before.
>>> *    The human rights framework is an internationally agreed set of
>>> standards that has also has practical as well as ethical value.  It
>>> balances different rights against each other to preserve individual
>>> and public interest.  In addition to its legally binding
>>> implications, the framework is therefore a useful tool for addressing
>>> internet governance issues, such as how to deal with security
>>> concerns on the internet in compliance with the rights to freedom of
>>> expression and privacy.  Besides stating the obligations of states
>>> and governments, the framework also allows us to derive the rights
>>> and responsibilities of other stakeholders.
>>>
>>> The Internet Governance Caucus [and undersigned DCs] call for human
>>> rights standards to be included in the planning and implementation of
>>> all IGF sessions, so that they are given the attention they deserve
>>> as cross-cutting issues.  This should include explicit consideration
>>> of how global, regional and national policies affect fundamental
>>> rights, and the development of positive policy principles to build an
>>> open and accessible internet for all.  The Caucus [and undersigned
>>> DCs] would like to offer assistance to the organisers of the main
>>> plenary sessions to do this, and would like to support all
>>> stakeholders through providing access to relevant guidelines and
>>> experts.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: William Drake [mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch]
>>> Sent: 08 September 2009 11:07
>>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Meryem Marzouki
>>> Subject: Re: [governance] Statement by IGC supporting rights and
>>> principles
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 8, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Meryem Marzouki wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 8 sept. 09 à 11:38, William Drake a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Meryem,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 8, 2009, at 11:15 AM, Meryem Marzouki wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Such a short statement, which purpose is to put the HR issue on
>>>>>> the table at IGF -- and nothing more -- should remain general
>>>>>> enough.
>>>>>> If there is real and shared insistance that the sentence be
>>>>>> watered down, then we could says "... threatened by SOME current
>>>>>> IG processes and practice". Although this seems obvious..
>>>>>> Finally, a statement should be read in its globality. The final
>>>>>> paragraph mentions "global, regional and national policiies",
>>>>>> showing that the statement makes a difference between these
>>>>>> policies at different levels.
>>>>>
>>>>> My suggestion pertained to the examples Ginger gave, which were of
>>>>> national level government censorship.  If you'd like to suggest
>>>>> more encompassing yet differentiated language and try to get
>>>>> consensus on it feel free, but as McTim notes, "are threatened by
>>>>> current internet governance processes and practice" seems too
>>>>> sweepingly totalizing.
>>>>
>>>> If it seems totalizing, then let's make sure there is no
>>>> misunderstanding, and have the statement simply says "... threatened
>>>> by SOME OF THE current IG processes and practice". Is that agreeable
>>>> to you and Mc Tim?
>>>
>>> Sure it's agreeable, but I doubt it ensures there'll be no
>>> misunderstanding.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Bill____________________________________________________________
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