AW: [governance] ICANN/USG Affirmation of Commitments

Tue Oct 6 14:19:15 EDT 2009

Dear Wolfgang and all,

See remarks in response interspersed below Wolf's.

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
>Sent: Oct 6, 2009 12:23 PM
>To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, Paul Lehto <lehto.paul at gmail.com>, governance at lists.cpsr.org, Avri Doria <avri at psg.com>
>Subject: AW: [governance] ICANN/USG Affirmation of Commitments
>
>Dear Paul 
> 
>you describe and defebnd the classical "representative democracy" of the 20th century. Good points. Very good points. 
> 
>However, in the complexity of the 21st century the "chain of representation" gets longer and looner and there is less and less a direct relationship between the input of the people and the output of a government. Do you really believe, that a diplomat sitting in a UN meeting and discussing very concrete and difficult technical issue represents "her/his people"? In the best way she/he follows the instructions from her/his capital. In the worst sense she/he is doing wha she/he wants because nobody controls her/him. If she/he is a good guy you get a good solution. If she/he is a bad guy it is sad and bad. 

Your contention is true regardless of how long of short the "Chain of Representation"
and I would add Accountability is.   Further UN representatives are usually selected
by heads of state or sometimes the head of state presides as his nations UN representative,
which I think is a good idea, BTW.  As such a selected and/or appointed UN representative
can be replaced at the desire of the head of state if he/she is a bad actor.
> 
>What the Internet has enabled is to add a layer which can combine representative with participatory democracy. The principle of multistakeholderism is the very concrete outcome of this development. It is still very early and we are exploring how it could work. But going back to the past would be the wrong turn to meet the challenges of the future (with all respect to President Truman who also order the drop of the first nuclar bomb to Hiroshoma). 

I disagree.  The Internet hasn't added anything of such value or substance, but has
only excelerated and proliferated communication between interested parties.
> 
>Best wishes
> 
>wolfgang
>
>________________________________
>
>Von: Paul Lehto [mailto:lehto.paul at gmail.com]
>Gesendet: Di 06.10.2009 18:52
>An: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Avri Doria
>Betreff: Re: [governance] ICANN/USG Affirmation of Commitments
>
>
>
>Have you ever heard of the "consent of the governed?"  There's more
>than one way that consent of the governed can be achieved, but nobody
>seriously believes and defends the position publicly that there's any
>legitimate political authority outside some nexus to *elections* among
>the people (such as electing representatives who then elect
>ambassadors or delegates to an ICANN board or congress, etc.)
>
>Are you, Avri Doria, really saying what it seems you're saying:
>Elections are too difficult in your mind so they will be dispensed
>with, or can be, in the interest of efficiency?
>
>In any case, as President Harry Truman said "If you want efficiency,
>you'll get a dictatorship."
>
>This is because Democracy's core values don't always dictate
>efficiency.  In fact, things like separation of powers and checks and
>balances are in fact redundant inefficiencies that a strongman
>dictator could well streamline and save money and time on.  Democracy,
>by contrast, is a commitment to serial public discussions and votes
>(and therefore disputes) lasting... forever -- or at least as long as
>freedom and democracy lasts.
>
>Paul Lehto, Juris Doctor
>
>On 10/6/09, Avri Doria <avri at psg.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 6 Oct 2009, at 11:57, Paul Lehto wrote:
>>
>>> The only
>>> legitimate way to fully claim the public interest mantle is by having
>>> a mandate via consent of the governed from the people as a whole.
>>
>>
>> does this mean that until everyone in the world votes, ICANN will
>> never be legitimate according to you?
>>
>> a.
>>
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>
>
>--
>Paul R Lehto, J.D.
>P.O. Box #1
>Ishpeming, MI  49849
>lehto.paul at gmail.com
>906-204-4026
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