AW: [governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace?

Mon Jul 20 13:31:01 EDT 2009

I also thank whoever for putting this concept on the table. For me it is the meat and the draft whatever the potatoes -- all meals are better with both.

I am seeing a blurring of lines when we speak of two distinct concepts;

1. Governance by the netizen
2. Governance between governments

--- On Mon, 7/20/09, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:

From: "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Subject: AW: [governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace?
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Date: Monday, July 20, 2009, 8:18 AM

Thanks for the start of the discussion aound the "Cyber Monrioe Doctrin". Here is another point which needs obviously more debate: 

In a meeting we had early June 2009 in Bejing, China Vice-Minister of ther Ministry for Industry and Information Technology (MIIT) declared very directly that the "securtiy and stability is priority Nunmber One for the exploding Chinese Internet Industry". China sees its own turf in Cyberspace to protect its country and interests. 

Russias President Medweded told the 3000 participants of the Annual Russia Internet Forum near Moscow recently that Cybersecurity is very high on the agenda of Russia Foreign Policy. 

Before Obama went to Moscow, the NYT/International Herald Tribune reported on its frontpage (June 27, 2009) "US and Russia split over cyberperil". The article says: "Both nations agree that cyberspacve is an emerging battleground. The United States is preparing to address the subject when President Obama visits Russia in July and at the General Assembly of the UN in November, according to a senior State Deparment official. But there the agreement end. Russia favours an internaitonal treaty along the lines of those negotiated for chemical weapons, and has pushed for that approach at a series of meetings this yeaer and in public statements by hig ranking officials. The United States argues that a treaty is unnecessary. It instead advocates improved cooperation among international law enforcement groups".

When Obama was in Moscow the issue of "cybersecurity" was  not raised in public, neither in the press conference nor in Obamas speech at the "New Economy School".     

Space for speculation? At least there are three good questions if you link this to Ms. Davidson doctrione proposal: Who has a turf in cyberspace? What is mine and what is yours in cyberspace? And how to manage the cybercommons?

What do we need? Enhanced cooperation? Enhanced IGF? Enhanced G 20? First priority for the moment should be transparency in a bottom up policy developoment process, if there is a PDP underway. No need for new closed doors in an open cyberspace.   

Wolfgang

________________________________

Von: Eric Dierker [mailto:cogitoergosum at sbcglobal.net]
Gesendet: Mo 20.07.2009 07:02
An: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Vanda Scartezini; Carlton Samuels; Kleinwächter, Wolfgang
Betreff: RE: [governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace?

I am always amuzed at students of history placing modern day values and societal norms over their lens while gaining perspective of historical stuff. As though we can somehow empathetically understand the dynamics of a given place in time by applying our current anthropological bias. Then in order to come up with fuel for a given contention we apply liberally the damaging effects of a policy that was correct at the time of inception but through lack of action remained passed its' intended lifespan and caused unintended debilitary effects. 

ICANN today can not be viewed through the visionary glasses of Jon Postel as it exists today. It must be viewed through the corrupt lens of current reality. Massive multinational conspiratorial Corporations now run the net, not DARPA style engineers with ten pound spectacles and slide rulers. We should not look to Countries to redefine the roles and responsibilities of netizens and carpetbaggers but rather to the driving forces of international monetary schemes.

I think using the same models of testing historic events we will look back on this "consensual" document that was just produced and judge it harshly, not due to its' genius but due to the lack of participatory validity.

--- On Sun, 7/19/09, Vanda Scartezini <vanda at uol.com.br> wrote:

    From: Vanda Scartezini <vanda at uol.com.br>
    Subject: RE: [governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace?
    To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, "'Carlton Samuels'" <carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm>, "'"Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"'" <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
    Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:22 PM

    Carlton

     I guess I could add many others examples to your comments. Lets not be naïve on this.  

    Vanda Scartezini 

    POLO Consultores Associados 

    &  IT Trend 

    Alameda Santos 1470 cjs 1407/8 

    01418-903 Sao Paulo,SP. 

    Fone + 55 11 3266.6253 

    Mob + 5511 8181.1464 

    From: carlton.samuels at gmail.com [mailto:carlton.samuels at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Carlton Samuels
    Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 6:39 PM
    To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
    Subject: Re: [governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace?

    Um, see, history matters!  Those of us on the periphery of empire can attest to that. 

    Seems I share some common reading material with Ms. Davidson.  And while we read the same books, her worldview leads her to count all other actors in the space as merely collateral damage.

    The Monroe Doctrine is an unfortunate metaphor applied to either cybersecurity or Internet governance.  I shall take the most benign explanation and insist she is blithely unaware of the deleterious impact of the Monroe Doctrine on Latin America and the Caribbean. Honduras is just the latest gasp in a sorry history of an execrable policy that delivered "repeated injuries and usurpations greviously committed" and unilateral extraterritorial interventions resulting in stunted democratic institutions, mayhem and murder. Other stakeholders, the local people for one, were never recognized as having worthwhile much less sovereign interests. She clearly does not know the true history of the United Fruit Company in Central America and other implementing tools of this doctrine.   I won't even mention Haiti.   

    Let us be clear. The views expressed by Madame Reding of the EC inre ICANN-related Internet governance issues are merely more, well.....shall we say nuanced...as befits a better understanding of the sweep of history and its impact on the future.

    History is not bunk.  And culture is a helluva thing!

    Carlton Samuels 

    2009/7/15 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de <http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de> >

    Here is a good statement from Mary Ann Davidson, CSO from Oracle, where she proposes a "Monroe Doctrin" for Internet Governance. This is an extended version from a statement she made in a Congressional Hearing recently.

    If somebody expected that we will soon the end of the IG debate, the contrary will be the case: The discussion has just started and the risk is, that all the new entrants in the discussion will probably not understand, what multistakeholderism is and why this has been an achievement for the diplomacy of the 1st decade of the 21st century. The 2nd decade could look rather different.

    Wolfgang

    http://blogs.oracle.com/maryanndavidson/
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