[governance] Question 6: Comments on Shiva's proposed paras
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
isolatedn at gmail.com
Mon Jul 13 08:25:04 EDT 2009
Hello Ginger
Will have just a little time to spend on this, will review the complete
questionnaire comments, and reword the Q6 comment, but don't really have a
lot of time today. Leaving for the city in a few hours for a short trip,
will find some time to work tomorrow as well, but not tonight.
Would prefer this as an IGC statement, rather than as an independent
proposal, which I could have sent it on my own but preferred not to.
Shiva.
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Shiva,
>
> I was referring to Q6, as several of us - including myself, and Ian, as
> well as Michael and others, are not yet satisfied with the wording on the
> funding concept. You are welcome to continue the discussion and see if you
> can reach a consensus on it, but I suspect that by the time everyone is
> happy, the statement won't say much of anything. Could you review the thread
> on Q6, including Ian's answer to the complete questionnaire draft, and tell
> us what you think?
>
> Let's look at Q 3 separately, ok?
>
> Thanks. I appreciate your willingness to discuss.
>
> Best,
> Ginger
>
> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
>
>> Hello Ginger
>>
>> You would like this submitted as my own comment, rather than as an IGC
>> statement? Is this only on Q6 or does it also apply to Q3?
>>
>> There were further exchanges between Gurstein and me, and the
>> misunderstanding are being clarified. Would you really feel that the entire
>> statement has to be dropped as comment from IGC?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Ginger Paque <gpaque at gmail.com <mailto:
>> gpaque at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Shiva, As there seems to be quite a bit of controversy about this
>> concept and wording, and we are very short on time, I wonder if we
>> could continue this discussion after the questionnaire is
>> submitted, perhaps for comments to be submitted by the August
>> deadline?
>>
>> In the meantime, you could submit your own comment, which would
>> give you more freedom to make your point. Is that acceptable to you?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ginger
>>
>> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
>>
>> Hello Michael Gurstein
>>
>> A quick reply and a little more later.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 6:12 AM, Michael Gurstein
>> <gurstein at gmail.com <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
>> [mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com <mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com <mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com>>]
>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 12, 2009 6:18 PM
>> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>> <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>>; Michael Gurstein
>> *Subject:* Re: [governance] Question 6: Comments on Siva's
>> proposed paras
>>
>> Hello Michael Gurstein,
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 2:50 AM, Michael Gurstein
>> <gurstein at gmail.com <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "The Internet Governance Caucus calls upon the IGF
>> Secretariat to fund the IGF programs and participation
>> substantially and significantly to further enhance the
>> quality of programs with greater diversity of
>> participation" sounds better?
>> YES...
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are two aspects to be considered in this
>> regard: a)
>> The absence or
>> non-participation of some of the world's most renowned
>> Civil Society opinion
>> leaders is noticeable; Business Leaders who are
>> otherwise
>> committed to
>> social and other governance issues off IGF are not
>> seen at
>> the IGF;
>> Governments are not represented on a level high enough
>>
>> HMMM. WHO/WHAT EXACTLY IS MEANT BY "RENOWNED CIVIL
>> SOCIETY
>> OPINION LEADERS"
>> (IN SOME CIRCLES THERE ARE AT LEAST TWO AND
>> PROBABLY MORE
>> INTERNAL
>> CONTRADITIONS IN THAT SIMPLE STATEMENT AND CERTAINLY
>> NEITHER WE NOR THE
>> SECRETARIAT SHOULD BE EXPECTED TO IDENTIFY WHO THESE
>> "RENOWNED" FOLKS MIGHT
>> BE.
>>
>> AS WELL, ARE WE LOOKING FOR CIVIL SOCIETY "LEADERS" OR
>> FOLKS FROM CIVIL
>> SOCIETY ORGANIZATIONS IN LEADERSHIP POSITIONS, OR
>> ARE WE
>> LOOKING FOR CIVIL
>> SOCIETY SPOKESPEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND IG ISSUES, OR
>> ARE WE
>> LOOKING FOR LEADERS
>> OF RESPONSIBLE REPRESENTATIVE CS ORGANIZATIONS WHO
>> HAVE A
>> POSITION//OPINION/KNOWLEDGE ON IG ISSUES (EACH OF THESE
>> CATEGORIES IS
>> PROBABLY DISCREET AND COULD BE INCLUDED AMBIGUOUSLY
>> UNDER
>> YOUR STATEMENT.
>>
>> IF BIZ LEADERS THINK IT IS OF SUFFICIENT IMPORTANCE
>> THEY'LL LIKELY COME, IF
>> NOT, NOT AND NOT MUCH WE OR THE SECRETARIAT CAN DO
>> ABOUT
>> THAT AND SIMILARLY
>> WITH GOVERNMENTS.
>>
>> I THINK THIS PARA SHOULD BE DROPPED...
>>
>>
>> I am sorry, I don't agree with your negative
>> interpretation of
>> such a positive suggestion. Are we to assert that the
>> present
>> participants constitute a complete, representative, and
>> ultimate group ? NO, BUT I'M HAVING
>> TROUBLE SEEING WHAT NAOMI KLEIN OR VENDANA
>> SHIVA WOULD HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE EITHER...
>>
>> I will have to browse a little to learn about Naomi Klein;
>> Vendana Shiva is an Indian name that sounds familiar, but I
>> wasn't thinking of these names, nor was my point intended to
>> bring in anyone whom I know or associated with. Looks like
>> you are reading between the lines of what I write.
>>
>> HAVING THE HEAD OF SEWA OR K-NET WOULD SEEM TO
>> ME TO BE RATHER
>> MORE USEFUL, "RENOWNED" OR NOT, AS THEY AT LEAST COULD TALK
>> WITH SOME DIRECT KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HOW IG ISSUES IMPACT
>> THEM AND
>> THE KINDS OF THINGS THEY ARE TRYING TO DO ON THE GROUND.
>>
>> Again an Indian reference - you have used the word "Sewa" in
>> your comment. Perhaps you are reading me as someone pushing
>> the Indian point of view? I am not. I am born in India, a
>> participant from India, I have faith in and respect for my
>> country but I believe that in an International context I am at
>> least a little wider than a national. I have been inspired by
>> teachers who taught me in my school days that "patriotism is a
>> prejudice" which is profound thinking which in depths implies
>> that one must be beyond being patriotic and be rather global.
>>
>> (Will come back this point and write more in response to what
>> you have written a little later)
>>
>> Thank you.
>> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy.
>>
>> MBG
>> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
>>
>> M
>>
>>
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