From isolatedn at gmail.com  Fri Oct 31 18:34:48 2008
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 04:04:48 +0530
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <4d976d8e0810311111j359ca593g6ab947800950ce9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> <Tgp5a98t$hBJFAXW@perry.co.uk>
	 <49052C1F.716CC717@ix.netcom.com>
	 <4d976d8e0810311028u58b445a6u45b45a1a2bbe4423@mail.gmail.com>
	 <ofYHFZVnd0CJFAay@perry.co.uk>
	 <4d976d8e0810311111j359ca593g6ab947800950ce9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fecfce260810311534v6c0f2380vef650e448b5014f8@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

As a person living in India, I sent a note to the Government of India to
take note of this discussion four days ago and the Ministry of Information
Technology was prompt to send a reply to say "I think the Visa issue stands
resolved."

The Government of India might already have taken steps to ensure that
participants do not have problems with VISAs to visit India to attend the
IGF. Perhaps it takes just a little more time for the steps taken by GOI on
this issue to take effect.

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
India.

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 11:41 PM, Max Senges <maxsenges at gmail.com> wrote:

> sorry naturally i mean the Indian Gov *in* the US
>
> best
> max
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Roland Perry <
> roland at internetpolicyagency.com> wrote:
>
>> In message <4d976d8e0810311028u58b445a6u45b45a1a2bbe4423 at mail.gmail.com>,
>> at 10:28:40 on Fri, 31 Oct 2008, Max Senges <maxsenges at gmail.com> writes
>>
>>> so the americans have *of course* outsourced visa processing to a private
>>> company.
>>>
>>
>> Do you mean the Indian Consulates *in* America? If so, that's the same as
>> the UK where they seem to have outsourced the except-in-person-in-London
>> visas. And similarly haven't heard about the "free" ones.
>>  --
>> Roland Perry
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> "I am, You are, We are information"
>                             Camille de Toledo - Coming of Age at the End of
> History
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Max Senges
>
> US-Mobile: +1 650 714 9826
> Spanish-Mobile: + 34 693343837
>
> www.maxsenges.com
> www.knowledgeentrepreneur.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
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>
>


-- 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Wed Oct  1 07:16:33 2008
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:16:33 +0100
Subject: tardis Re: [governance] IGC website hosting and maintenenance
 - call
In-Reply-To: <48E17746.146C3D52@ix.netcom.com>
References: <C95C5ABF2BED4527BC1F42C5535D0B12@IAN>
 <20080929045340.M15547@Malcolm.id.au> <48DF2AC8.EBC6D1C4@ix.netcom.com>
 <E1KkAwC-0004rX-3L@tardis.malcolm.id.au> <48E017B1.DA0C0730@ix.netcom.com>
 <008501c922e9$d6af8040$6401a8c0@GINGERLAPTOP>
 <48E17746.146C3D52@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <Gm+Q88IRw14IFA5D@perry.co.uk>

In message <48E17746.146C3D52 at ix.netcom.com>, at 17:48:07 on Mon, 29 Sep 
2008, Jeffrey A. Williams <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> writes
>Simply a fact that implying as Jeremy's post at the bottom, stated and 
>directly infered was that my response was spam.

I have a feeling there are at least two misunderstandings here.

1) The message only said it was "possible spam". I'm sure you are aware 
of the concept of false positives (in this case possibly triggered 
because you unnecessarily cc'd Jeremy's personal email address as well 
as mailing to the list; excessive cross-posting is often used as an 
indicator in spam filters). Jeremy's system would have seen two copies 
of the email, one via the list (which was probably whitelisted) and 
another directly from you (and you were clearly not in his whitelist).

2) I expect that *only* yourself saw that message from his spam filter, 
as a result of the direct-addressed copy of your 'Google' question being 
"returned to sender" (see above). Those words, which were only 
circulated to us here because you chose to redistribute them, were not 
apparently sent to the list.

As a general rule including more than one list, or a list plus 
individuals already on the list, in the addressees of an email will 
often end in tears. And now back to our regular programmes...
-- 
Roland Perry
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From anriette at apc.org  Wed Oct  1 07:42:20 2008
From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 13:42:20 +0200
Subject: tardis Re: [governance] IGC website hosting and maintenenance
 - call
In-Reply-To: <48E017B1.DA0C0730@ix.netcom.com>
References: <C95C5ABF2BED4527BC1F42C5535D0B12@IAN>, <48E017B1.DA0C0730@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <48E37E3C.24496.E3936A2@anriette.apc.org>

Sigh.  When I saw the subject I finally thought that perhaps Karen Banks and I 
are not the only Dr. Who fans in the caucus.

Anriette


Date sent:	Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:48:01 -0700
From:	"Jeffrey A. Williams" <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com>
Organization:	IDNS and Spokesman for INEGroup
To:	Jeremy Malcolm <spamtrap08 at malcolm.id.au>,
 	Governance/IGC <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
Subject:	tardis Re: [governance] IGC website hosting and maintenenance - 
call
Send reply to:	governance at lists.cpsr.org,"Jeffrey A. Williams" 
<jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com>

> Jeremy and all,
> 
>   I did as you ask, but I must complain that you insist on such being
>   done.
> 
>   Please do not send me another of these sorts of responses again,
> lest more specific and necessary legal action be considered
> accordingly.
> 
> Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
> 
> > >Jeremy and all,
> >
> > >  Is this platform a Google based platform?
> >
> > >Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
> >
> > >> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 05:47:00 +1000, Ian Peter wrote
> > >> > Would someone or some organisation like to volunteer to host
> > >> > the site, and to maintain it - or to host it with a simple
> > >> > content management system where co-ordinators without html
> > >> > skills can do the maintenance?
> > >> >
> > >> > It would have to be someone with strong associations with the
> > >> > caucus and with civil society. I'd be very happy to help with a
> > >> > simple redesign to make it more readable and improve the
> > >> > presentation.
> > >>
> > >> I know Derrick has already offered but alternatively
> > >> igf-online.net is a dedicated server that I put together for the
> > >> now-dormant Online Collaboration Dynamic Coalition and is
> > >> specifically designed to host stuff like this.  It already hosts
> > >> a blog, wiki, shared calendar, RSS aggregator and mailing lists.
> > >> There is also a Drupal CMS installed but not used.  The IGC would
> > >> be welcome to use that.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Jeremy Malcolm LLB (Hons) B Com
> > >> Internet and Open Source lawyer, IT consultant, actor
> > >> host -t NAPTR 1.0.8.0.3.1.2.9.8.1.6.e164.org|awk -F! '{print $3}'
> > >>
> > >> ____________________________________________________________ You
> > >> received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>
> > >> For all list information and functions, see:
> > >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> > >Regards,
> >
> > >Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders
> > >strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> > >   Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > >"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > >very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >
> > >"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > >liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P:
> > >i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing 
> > >(159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > >===============================================================
> > >Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network
> > >data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > >ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > >jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >
> > This is an automatic response.  Your email has been identified as
> > possible spam, and my email filter has deleted it before I have had
> > the opportunity to read it.  This is necessary because my quotient
> > of spam to real mail is currently running at over 43%.  If your
> > email is not spam, please resend it with the password "tardis"
> > somewhere in the subject line, so that my spam filter will be
> > bypassed and you can be added to my whitelist automatically.  Thank
> > you.
> >
> > --
> > Jeremy Malcolm LLB (Hons) B Com
> > Internet and Open Source lawyer, IT consultant, actor
> > host -t NAPTR 1.0.8.0.3.1.2.9.8.1.6.e164.org|awk -F! '{print $3}'
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>    Abraham Lincoln
> 
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> 
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e.,
> whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d
> 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data
> security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC. ABA member
> in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My
> Phone: 214-244-4827
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance



------------------------------------------------------
Anriette Esterhuysen, Executive Director
Association for Progressive Communications
anriette at apc.org
http://www.apc.org
PO Box 29755, Melville, South Africa. 2109
Tel. 27 11 726 1692
Fax 27 11 726 1692

____________________________________________________________
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Thu Oct  2 05:46:48 2008
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 10:46:48 +0100
Subject: tardis Re: [governance] IGC website hosting and maintenenance-
 call
In-Reply-To: <48E2CB3B.84BF2BC0@ix.netcom.com>
References: <C95C5ABF2BED4527BC1F42C5535D0B12@IAN>
 <20080929045340.M15547@Malcolm.id.au> <48DF2AC8.EBC6D1C4@ix.netcom.com>
 <E1KkAwC-0004rX-3L@tardis.malcolm.id.au> <48E017B1.DA0C0730@ix.netcom.com>
 <008501c922e9$d6af8040$6401a8c0@GINGERLAPTOP>
 <48E17746.146C3D52@ix.netcom.com> <Gm+Q88IRw14IFA5D@perry.co.uk>
 <48E2CB3B.84BF2BC0@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <WO5UG1YIiJ5IFAxo@perry.co.uk>

In message <48E2CB3B.84BF2BC0 at ix.netcom.com>, at 17:58:36 on Tue, 30 Sep 
2008, Jeffrey A. Williams <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> writes
>if we are to conduct a productive discussion and debate on relevant 
>issues, false claims, false positives, or outright unknown assigned 
>assumptions must cease

Amen to that.
-- 
Roland Perry
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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Fri Oct  3 20:46:02 2008
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 10:46:02 +1000
Subject: [governance] IGC website hosting and maintenenance - call
In-Reply-To: <48E37E3C.24496.E3936A2@anriette.apc.org>
Message-ID: <A8DE9C02AFF14B9BAB6D8D0AC9F62654@IAN>

Thanks to everyone who replied and offered to help here. WE had some
excellent offers, after discussion with Parminder and evaluation of the
alternatives we have decided to accept the kind offer from Association for
Progressive Communications (APC).

We will move the site (www.igcaucus.org) over the next week or so, when
circumstances permit. Over the next few months we will work on redesigning
the site and putting it into a content management system so that content can
be maintained without technical intervention.

Many thanks Anriette and Karen for facilitating this - and also to Avri who
has kindly maintained the site up until now and for registering and
maintaining the domain name (something she is happy to continue doing). Also
thanks to Jeremy and Derrick for offering alternatives.

(Avri I'll get the relevant technical contact from APC to you as soon as I
have details).

Thanks to everyone,



Ian Peter
PO Box 429
Bangalow NSW 2479
Australia
Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
www.ianpeter.com
 
 

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From mueller at syr.edu  Sat Oct  4 03:30:06 2008
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 03:30:06 -0400
Subject: [governance] FW: [IGP Announce] Internet Governance Project
 Headlines
Message-ID: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C97F4@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu>

 Internet Governance
Project<http://internetgovernance.org/images/IGP_logo_Masthead2.gif> 


October 03, 2008

ICANN's DNSSEC root signing proposal d.o.a.? 
VeriSign's plan to sign the root 
IGP Fellowships to Hyderabad awarded 
IANA TAR: Pressure by ICANN to be independent? 
Search "IGP" via Brenden in Google Reader
<http://www.feedblitz.com/f?Search=175425>  



________________________________


ICANN's DNSSEC root signing proposal d.o.a.?
<http://feedblitz.com/r.asp?l=36847225&f=175425&u=11399627> 


What is technical and what is political? Some of you may recall various
members of the technical community scolding us about how implementation
of DNSSEC at the root was a "purely technical issue" and that the world
should ignore the governance questions and just "get on with it." This
plea of urgency gained steam this summer during the Kaminsky attack
episode, with some blaming the Department of Commerce as the "the
show-stopper
<http://www.feedblitz.com/t.asp?/175425/11399627/http://blog.wired.com/2
7bstroke6/2008/08/experts-accuse.html> ." What some technical experts
failed to recognize was the underlying power struggle involving ICANN,
the U.S. Commerce Department and VeriSign over the arcane business of
how the root zone of the DNS might be signed, an important step in the
implementation of DNSSEC. And more importantly, how the US Government is
making sure this process unfolds in a way that keeps it in control of
the root. <http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~4/410476911> 

* Email to a friend
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eeds.feedburner.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~3/410476911/3899192.html;ICANN's
%20DNSSEC%20root%20signing%20proposal%20d.o.a.?;458042>  * Article
Search
<http://www.feedblitz.com/f/f.fbz?Search=175425;2882055;Main%20Page;ICAN
N's%20DNSSEC%20root%20signing%20proposal%20d.o.a.?;458042>  *
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.com%2f~r%2fIGPBlogCombined%2f~3%2f410476911%2f3899192.html&src=5> *

 


VeriSign's plan to sign the root
<http://feedblitz.com/r.asp?l=36797615&f=175425&u=11399627> 


VeriSign has publicly released its proposal to sign the root
<http://www.feedblitz.com/t.asp?/175425/11399627/http://mail.shinkuro.co
m:8100/Lists/dnssec-deployment/Message/1478.html?Language=> , which it
sent to the NTIA on September 22. Their proposal comes on the heels of
ICANN submitting their own (yet to be publicly released) proposal to the
NTIA on September 2. DoC will be putting out a Notice of Inquiry soon
regarding signing the root to gather public comments. VeriSign adds a
much needed dimension to the root signing debate, introducing a well
known threshold cryptographic technique. But the proposal's reliance on
root server operators needs to be considered carefully.
<http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~4/405646342> 

* Email to a friend
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n's%20plan%20to%20sign%20the%20root;458042>  * Article Search
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.com%2f~r%2fIGPBlogCombined%2f~3%2f405646342%2f3903803.html&src=5> *

 


IGP Fellowships to Hyderabad awarded
<http://feedblitz.com/r.asp?l=36817569&f=175425&u=11399627> 


The Internet Governance Project has awarded two fellowships to young
scholars from Poland and China to enable them to attend the Hyderabad
Internet Governance Forum and present their research at the 3rd annual
Symposium of GigaNet
<http://www.feedblitz.com/t.asp?/175425/11399627/http://www.igloo.org/gi
ganet/> (the Global Internet Governance Academic Network). Dr. Joanna
Kulesza, of the University of Lodz Faculty of Law and Administration,
will present a paper titled "Internet governance and the jurisdiction of
states." Dr. Zhuo Zhang, of the Wuhan University School of Journalism
and Communication, China, will present her paper (co-authored with
Handong Wang): "Two Kinds of Violence: Internet Governance and Internet
Mob in Mainland China."
<http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~4/407683544> 

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.com%2f~r%2fIGPBlogCombined%2f~3%2f407683544%2f3908980.html&src=5> *

 


IANA TAR: Pressure by ICANN to be independent?
<http://feedblitz.com/r.asp?l=36755509&f=175425&u=11399627> 


Last June IGP reported on efforts to develop a trust anchor repository
(TAR) to help bootstrap the deployment of DNSSEC. A TAR would provide a
centralized location where top level registries could place public key
information pertaining to their zone's trust anchor. The key information
could be accessed by secure resolvers to initiate the validation of
signed zone data. The TAR idea had been floated by several actors in
lieu of the difficulty of getting DNSSEC deployed at the root. It seems
that the TAR concept continues to gain traction.
<http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/IGPBlogCombined/~4/402150224> 

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From gurstein at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 04:51:38 2008
From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 10:51:38 +0200
Subject: [governance] Implementing the Digital Accessibility Agenda of the
 Convention on the Right of Persons with Disabilities: Challenges and
 Opportunities for Signatory States
Message-ID: <2505118DD8E6402EA16F5377DED4926A@userPC>

This event might be of wider interest.

Best,

MG

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at un-gaid.org [mailto:discuss-bounces at un-gaid.org] On
Behalf Of Axel Leblois
Sent: September-30-08 12:17 AM
To: 'GAID Discussion'
Subject: RE: [gaid-discuss] 6th GAID Steering Committee Meeting and UN
PrivateSector Forum on MDGs and Food Sustainability, 24 September 2008


Dear Sarbuland,

Please find attached a draft of the program for December 3rd 10 am to 2 pm.

With best personal regards,

Axel


A
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Mon Oct  6 04:29:44 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 01:29:44 -0700
Subject: [governance] Google Profiling Social Network Users
Message-ID: <48E9CC78.B6249B20@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  Well, so now Google is setting itself up as the social networking
profiling gate keeper?  Interesting, and frightening...  Also
not very user friendly either...

  Well I for , hope Google adds myself and all of our members as
being not very "Google Friendly"...

See:
 http://www.huomah.com/ David Harry writes "Google is looking deeper
into behavioral targeting of social network users with three more
patents. A while back,
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/04/140223&tid=217
one patent came to light in the poorly termed friendrank

http://www.huomah.com/Internet-Marketing/Social-Media-Marketing/Social-networks-are-Open-for-profiling.html

Google could be profiling social network users. These three patents now
bring the series to five in total."

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Wed Oct  8 01:49:44 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 22:49:44 -0700
Subject: [governance] Re: [At-Large] Board Minutes:  GNSO Restructuring
References: <810737.74862.qm@web52205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <48EC49F7.10FB95A1@ix.netcom.com>

Danny and all,

  Nicely worded snow job by the Bod.  Reads very official,
but misrepresents any legitimate consensus...  Reads allot
like AIG and Leman Bros governance documents.  But as
was testified today in the House, a big club with official looking
and reading supporting documentation.  Cronyism at it's
highest, or lowest, depending on your ethical point of view, level.

Danny Younger wrote:

> GNSO Council Restructuring
>
> Whereas, during its 28 August 2008 meeting the Board made several important decisions regarding the new GNSO Council's structure, composition, and implementation timing. These decisions included the formation of four new Stakeholder Groups that comprise a new bicameral (two-house) voting structure that was recommended by the Working Group on GNSO Council Restructuring – the WG-GCR.
>
> Whereas, during its 30 September meeting the Board concluded consideration of the WG-GCR Report including its recommendations on Nominating Committee Appointees, election of Council leadership, election of Board seats #13 and #14, voting thresholds for various Council decisions, the role of individual Internet users and their representation within the GNSO, as well as the timing for the implementation of these elements and other key implementation issues.
>
> -- GNSO Restructuring -- (Membership and Leadership Selection:)
>
> It is, Resolved (2008.10.01.06), as recommended by the WG-GCR, the Board authorizes a third Council-level non-voting Nominating Committee Appointee to serve on the Council whose presence could preserve an independent aspect on the Council and could provide useful management support as the Council moves toward a working group management function.
>
> It is, Resolved (2008.10.01.07), the Board authorizes the GNSO Council to elect a Chair consistent with the recommendation of the WG-GCR – that the GNSO Chair be elected by a vote of 60% of both voting houses and each voting house has the flexibility to create a process for selecting its own Vice Chair. The Board directs the Council to develop a process for subsequent balloting, if needed, until a Council Chair is duly elected. This process should be developed before the first Chair election of the newly structured Council.
>
> It is, Resolved (2008.10.01.08), the Board and General Counsel have outstanding questions about the WG-GCR recommendations regarding Board seat elections and directs Staff to share these with the community and seek additional input.
>
> -- GNSO Restructuring -- (Operational/Voting Considerations:)
>
> It is, Resolved (2008.10.01.09), the Board adopts all voting thresholds proposed in the WG-GCR Report. The Board requests that the GNSO develop any additional voting thresholds or categories that may be needed as part of its proposed GNSO Improvements Implementation Plan to be submitted to the Board for approval.
>
> -- GNSO Restructuring -- (Stakeholder and Constituency Organizational Concerns:)
>
> It is, Resolved (2008.10.01.10), the Board acknowledges Staff's development of the “Notice of Intent” documentation for potential new constituencies and directs Staff to develop a formal petition and charter template that will assist applicants in satisfying the formative criteria (consistent with the ICANN Bylaws) to facilitate the Board's evaluation of petitions to form new constituencies. Staff also is directed to work with the existing GNSO constituencies to design and develop a streamlined process along with appropriate mechanisms that will assist with the Board's timely recognition and approval of existing constituencies.
>
> It is, Resolved (2008.10.01.11), the Board reinforces its support for the following principles pertaining to the formation of the new Stakeholder Groups, and requests that all constituency members and other relevant parties comply with the principles included in the BGC Working Group's GNSO Improvements Report approved by the Board in establishing the newly formed structures, including:
>
> The need to better represent the wide variety of groups and individuals that compose the global ICANN community, in a structure that can change more easily with the gTLD environment and stakeholders.
> The inclusion of new actors/participants, where applicable, and the expansion of constituencies within Stakeholder Groups, where applicable.
> It is, further Resolved (2008.10.01.12), that the Board further directs Staff to work with existing constituencies to develop a set of streamlined processes (along with appropriate templates, tools, or other mechanisms) that will assist in the formation of these new Stakeholder Groups and also facilitate the Board's subsequent review and approval of those structures.
>
> It is, Resolved (2008.10.01.13), the Board directs that plans for each of the four new Stakeholder Groups, that are consistent with the above principles, be submitted to the Board for consideration at the ICANN Mexico City Board meeting. The plans must be reviewed and approved by the Board before a newly structured GNSO Council is seated in June 2009. The Board will consider the need for interim action to fill Council seats in the event that it finds any Stakeholder Group plans to be deficient or delayed.
>
> -- GNSO Restructuring -- (The Role of Individual Internet Users in the GNSO:)
>
> It is, Resolved (2008.10.01.14), The Board requests additional community dialogue and input on the appropriate role and representation of individual Internet users, including individual commercial and non-commercial Internet users, in the GNSO. Input from the GNSO, the ALAC and At-Large community, and any relevant applicants for new constituencies, would be particularly helpful and should address the inclusion of registrants and individual users in the GNSO in a manner that compliments the ALAC and its supporting structures, and ensures that registrants' and individual Internet users' gTLD interests are effectively represented within the GNSO.
>
> -- GNSO Restructuring -- (Implementation Timing:)
>
> It is, Resolved (2008.10.01.15), the Board amends its previous implementation timetable and directs that the transition to a new bicameral GNSO Council voting structure take place over a phased implementation schedule that begins immediately and ends in June 2009 with the seating of the new Council. The implementation phases will be as follows:
>
> Phase 1 – GNSO Council restructuring implementation plan submitted in advance of the December 2008 Board Meeting;
>
> Phase 2 – Existing Constituencies submit confirmation documents to the Board for review in advance of the February 2009 Board Meeting;
>
> Phase 3 – Stakeholder Groups submit formal plans for Board approval for consideration at the ICANN Mexico City Board meeting; and
>
> Phase 4 – Stakeholder Groups with plans approved by the Board select Council representatives, and the newly structured GNSO Council is seated by the June 2009 Asia-Pacific ICANN Meeting.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> At-Large mailing list
> At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann.org
>
> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Wed Oct  8 21:39:23 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:39:23 -0700
Subject: [governance] Re: [At-Large] DOC Notice of Inquiry:  DNSSEC
References: <52621.12310.qm@web52202.mail.re2.yahoo.com><8D4F17E9-F083-4CB8-9369-047ED8B34822@tucows.com><alpine.BSF.1.10.0810091202500.5314@simone.iecc.com><57421702-E748-4AB6-98A8-463F727110DA@tucows.com>
		<p06240816c513ad2004d9@[192.168.1.129]> <002901c92a2a$33f50b20$2d6405a1@sg.iaea.org>
Message-ID: <48ED60CB.F1736E53@ix.netcom.com>

Roberto and all,

  Well I hope that the "French Root" will be *fully* complimentary.
But given Frances history, I obviously have my doubts.
Vive la France!  >:)

Roberto Gaetano wrote:

> I was at the meeting, which was indeed hosted by the EU presidency.
> One additional piece of information is that at the same meeting, the day
> before, Eric Besson (French State Secretary for the developement of Digital
> Economy) had announced the "French root" for the object naming system, as
> complementary to the one managed by Verisign.
> Different people might have different opinions on whether the two items are
> related or not.
> Cheers,
> Roberto
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > [mailto:at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf
> > Of Adam Peake
> > Sent: Thursday, 09 October 2008 15:01
> > To: At-Large Worldwide
> > Subject: Re: [At-Large] DOC Notice of Inquiry: DNSSEC
> >
> > >On Oct 9, 2008, at 7:09 AM, John L wrote:
> > >
> > >>>This smells bad. Why would the USG, through the Department of
> > >>>Commerce, solicit and consider the input of foreign entities?
> > >>
> > >>Presumably because there will be ccTLDs in the DNSSEC
> > signed root zone
> > >>who would have some interest in the chain of custody of their own
> > >>DNSSEC data from their TLD managers to the signed root.
> > >>
> > >>DOC has, after all, been careful over the years to avoid do
> > anything
> > >>at the root that would annoy other governments.
> > >
> > >I hear you, but it doesn't add up. The DOC has no foreign
> > mandate that
> > >I'm aware of, and I have no standing with them as a foreign
> > citizen. So
> > >while I see the words on the screen in front of me, I'm a
> > bit confused
> > >about whether or not me speaking to them will carry any
> > weight at all,
> > >or whether this is just window-dressing.
> >
> >
> > Did they listen during the Green/White paper discussions?
> >
> > That it's mentioned during a meeting hosted by the EU
> > Presidency perhaps significant. They do need countries on
> > their side with whatever decisions they make.
> >
> > But who knows what happens if Norm Coleman or similar pick up on this.
> >
> > Adam
> >
> >
> >
> > >/r
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >At-Large mailing list
> > >At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atla
> rge-lists.
> > >icann.org
> > >
> > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > At-Large mailing list
> > At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlar
> ge-lists.icann.org
> >
> > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                   Name: winmail.dat
>    winmail.dat    Type: application/ms-tnef
>               Encoding: base64
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> At-Large mailing list
> At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann.org
>
> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Thu Oct  9 02:40:45 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 23:40:45 -0700
Subject: [governance] Obama & McCain Conflicting On Net Neutrality
Message-ID: <48EDA76D.6FE9E046@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  As an FYI, see:

For all their incessant bickering in the first two presidential debates
over conflicts of interest and government regulation, PopMech
columnist Glenn Derene is puzzled that the candidates have yet to be
challenged on a vital issue directly related to both those topics:
 http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4286547.html
Net neutrality. John McCain and Barack Obama have stated
elsewhere their opposing views on the issue, with
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/cbcd3a48-4b0e-4864-8be1-d04561c132ea.htm
McCain being opposed to Net neutrality and favoring light regulation
of the Internet, while
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/technology/#open-internet
Obama is in favor of neutrality and seeks Government involvement. In
any case, since there is no standard accepted definition of 'network
neutrality,'"until the candidates elaborate on their positions (which
they both declined to do for this piece, nor anywhere else so far, for
that matter), 'both sides can make a credible case that they're the 
ones defending freedom of innovation and open communication."

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From klohento at panos-ao.org  Fri Oct 10 11:08:41 2008
From: klohento at panos-ao.org (Ken Lohento)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:08:41 +0000
Subject: [governance] New IGF website
Message-ID: <48EF6FF9.6020107@panos-ao.org>

See http://www.intgovforum.org

The work is still in progress they said. It's better regarding notably 
organization of and easy access to contents. If you have suggestions : 
igf at unog.ch

Regards

-- 
Ken Lohento
Uses and Policies of Digital Technology (ICT) Programme
Panos Institute West Africa
6 rue Calmette Dakar Sénégal
+221 33 849 16 66
www.panos-ao.org
www.cipaco.org
www.euroafrica-ict.org
http://www.haayo.org

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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Thu Oct  9 21:32:51 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:32:51 -0700
Subject: [governance] High-tech lobby makes surprise pick for new president
Message-ID: <48EEB0C3.2C149A9F@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  Well the plot thickens...  Yet another decline in the Internet
neiborhood...

See:  http://gove-media.com/portal/wts/ccmcfOaOvEaqode66w-9bMowjUe

The Information Technology Industry Council, which represents Apple,
Dell Computer, Hewlett-Packard, IBM and other major high-tech companies,
surprised some tech policy watchers today by announcing that longtime
president Rhett Dawson's successor will be Dean Garfield, best known for
helping to sink illegal Internet file-sharing operations Grokster and
Kazaa.

 Comment on this article in The Forum.Garfield is chief strategic
officer for the Motion Picture Association of America and will take 
the helm at ITI when Dawson retires in December. Prior to joining 
ITI in 1993, Dawson served in the Reagan administration as assistant 
to the president for operations and was an executive at Potomac 
Electric Power Co.

 Garfield was selected after an extensive search led by ITI Board
Chairwoman Laura Ipsen, a senior vice president at Cisco Systems.
Industry sources initially thought the trade group's top lobbyist, 
Ralph Hellmann, a former GOP congressional leadership aide, could 
be the heir apparent.

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Thu Oct  9 21:36:00 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:36:00 -0700
Subject: [governance] Proposal To Sign the Root Zone Made Public
Message-ID: <48EEB180.D7B70B40@ix.netcom.com>

All,

This is a good move by ICANN, but ensuring the security of
the internet for stakeholders/users will only be partly protected.
What's fare more important is to require that all Registrars,
and Registries as well as Domain Name holders have DNSSEC
fully implemented.

  We are still reviewing this proposal and will have further comments
in it's regard fairly soon.  We have some doubts as to Paul Twomey's
attestment to any ICANN selected "Group of DNSSEC experts"
review.  See announcement below...

Proposal To Sign the Root Zone Made Public
> http://www.icann.org/en/announcements/announcement-2-09oct08-en.htm
>
> 9 October 2008
>
> A proposal [PDF, 276K]
http://www.icann.org/en/announcements/dnssec-proposal-09oct08-en.pdf
> to sign the root zone file with Domain Name System Security
Extensions, or DNSSEC, technology was released by ICANN today.
>
> DNSSEC provides a way for software to validate that Domain Name System
(DNS) data have not been modified during Internet transit. This is done
by incorporating public-private signature key pairs into the DNS
hierarchy to form a chain of trust originating at the root zone.
Importantly, DNSSEC is not a form of encryption.  It is backward
compatible with existing DNS, leaving records as they are -
unencrypted.  DNSSEC ensures record integrity through the use of digital
signatures that attest to their authenticity.
>
> This proposal has been written by ICANN staff, as authorized by
ICANN's Board, with the goal to proceed with appropriate speed and
deploy DNSSEC at the root level as a step towards improving the overall
security of the DNS.
>
> "The proposal has already been reviewed by a group of global DNSSEC
experts. The feedback ICANN received from this group indicates that the
proposal is technically sound, and appropriate" ICANN's President and
CEO Paul Twomey said.
>
> At the core of DNSSEC is the concept of a 'chain of trust'. ICANN's
proposal builds on that notion and, based on security advice, recommends
that the entity responsible for making changes, additions and deletions
to the root zone file and confirming those changes are valid (ICANN
presently performs this function - called the IANA function - under
contract from the United States Department of Commerce), should generate
and digitally sign the resulting root zone file update. This signed file
should then be passed to another organization (presently VeriSign
Corporation) for distribution.  In other words, the organization
responsible for the initial basis of trust - validating root zone
changes with top level domain operators - should also authenticate the
validity of the final product before it is distributed.
>
> The release occurs as the United States Department of Commerce also
announced a Notice of Inquiry on the concept of signing the Root Zone.
Details can be found here:
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/pdf/E8-23974.pdf [PDF, 72K].
>
> "ICANN has more than a year of experience in producing a signed root
zone that has already been widely tested by DNS software vendors and the
interested DNSSEC community. ICANN also has "built-in" the participation
of a group of world-class DNS experts" Dr Twomey said.
>
> "This is a moment of challenge and opportunity in addressing the
overall stability and security of the DNS system - the mission around
which ICANN was formed" he added.
>
> A set of questions and answers
> http://www.icann.org/en/announcements/dnssec-qaa-09oct08-en.htm
> on what DNSSEC is and why it is important is also published to assist
with the reading of the proposal.
>

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



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From parminder at itforchange.net  Fri Oct 10 22:31:06 2008
From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 08:01:06 +0530
Subject: [governance] germany plans citizen email
Message-ID: <20081011023125.EDB0D67825@smtp1.electricembers.net>

 

(I am posting below an exchange on the Bill of Rights elist, which may be of
interest.)

 

In germany the Ministry of the Interior has announced a plan to give each
citizen an 'governmentally certified' email address which allows more
extensive practices with official governmental institutions. Potentially
this could be a huge step forward in enabling/facilitating online citizen
participation.

Unfortunately i couldn't find information in english, but here is a german
article covering the initiative
http://www.thexblog.de/?p=4916

I will send more info as i find it 
best
Max 

_______________

 

Max

 

That is an interesting piece of information. Presumably, if one has a
certified email ID as a citizenship enabler, some kind of basic connectivity
also looks very much round the corner as a necessary citizen entitlement.
Feeds very well into a rights based approach to the Internet, in terms of
the positive rights aspect, of what got discussed earlier here as a 'right
to the Internet'. 

 

Best

 

Parminder 

 

 





 

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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Sat Oct 11 01:38:52 2008
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:38:52 +1100
Subject: [governance] germany plans citizen email
Message-ID: <2FE10E94D2C541B4B56B999A0952859E@IAN>

Crossposted on this issue..puts the other side of the argument elegantly

 

Ian Peter

PO Box 429

Bangalow NSW 2479

Australia

Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773

www.ianpeter.com

 

 

  _____  

From: Johannes Ernst [mailto:johannes.ernst at gmail.com] 
Sent: 11 October 2008 15:57
To: Bill of Rights Dynamic Coalition
Subject: Re: [Bill-of-Rights] germany plans citizen email

 

It's also a step in a very dangerous direction, from a civil liberties
perspective.

 

First you create a universal digital identifier for each citizen that they
have no control over (e.g. they can't have more than one for different
purposes, change it to something else, run it on a different computer,
decide not to show their name in it etc.)

 

Then, you create compelling functionality around it (here: encrypted,
presumably largely spam-free e-mail due to their presumed use of digital
signatures) And you mandate it as the only means of getting certain services
in a certain way, such as certain government services.

 

The next thing you know is that schools are requiring you to use that e-mail
address for parent-teacher communications. Libraries use it instead of
library card numbers. Credit card companies to get your bills to you.
Department stores as a better means to get special offers to you and let you
buy with a single click.

 

And you have perfect data mining for all of everybody's activities all the
time -- because all you did on the internet, and increasingly off-line, can
be trivially correlated. You do not have to be a conspiracy theorist to
think that this has "potential"...

 

If you thought the US social security number was bad for privacy, it is
nothing compared to this kind of proposal.

 

To mitigate: we need a plurality of competitive operators of communications
endpoints like that. Where I as an individual with individual rights have a
choice which to trust, and which to "vote out of office" for my activities
tomorrow. 

 

[I've been lurking on this list for some time. I'm a technologist by
background currently intimately involved in a set of open/free/libre
technologies called OpenID now supported by many leading internet companies.
They have been built from the ground up as decentralized technologies, and
one of the reasons for that is the avoid exactly this kind of situation.]

 

 

 

On Oct 10, 2008, at 19:27 , Parminder wrote:





Max

 

That is an interesting piece of information. Presumably, if one has a
certified email ID as a citizenship enabler, some kind of basic connectivity
also looks very much round the corner as a necessary citizen entitlement.
Feeds very well into a rights based approach to the Internet, in terms of
the positive rights aspect, of what got discussed earlier here as a 'right
to the Internet'.

 

Best

 

Parminder

 

  _____  

From: bill-of-rights-bounces at ipjustice.org
[mailto:bill-of-rights-bounces at ipjustice.org] On Behalf Of Max Senges
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 12:26 AM
To: Bill of Rights Dynamic Coalition
Subject: [Bill-of-Rights] germany plans citizen email

 


In germany the Ministry of the Interior has announced a plan to give each
citizen an 'governmentally certified' email address which allows more
extensive practices with official governmental institutions. Potentially
this could be a huge step forward in enabling/facilitating online citizen
participation.

Unfortunately i couldn't find information in english, but here is a german
article covering the initiative
http://www.thexblog.de/?p=4916

I will send more info as i find it 
best
Max 


-- 
-------------------------------------------------

"I am, You are, We are information"
                            Camille de Toledo - Coming of Age at the End of
History

-------------------------------------------------
Dr. Max Senges

US-Mobile: +1 650 714 9826
Spanish-Mobile: + 34 693343837

www.maxsenges.com
www.knowledgeentrepreneur.com
------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Bill-of-Rights mailing list
Bill-of-Rights at ipjustice.org
http://mailman.ipjustice.org/listinfo/bill-of-rights

 

Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008
2:18 PM


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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Fri Oct 10 05:07:01 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 02:07:01 -0700
Subject: [governance] germany plans citizen email
References: <20081011023125.EDB0D67825@smtp1.electricembers.net>
Message-ID: <48EF1B35.6991CF53@ix.netcom.com>

Parminder and all,

  This is interesting and perhaps very helpful as well.  What worries
me are these free government Email addresses monitor free, ergo
respectful of the potential users privacy?

Parminder wrote:

> (I am posting below an exchange on the Bill of Rights elist, which may
> be of interest.)
>
> In germany the Ministry of the Interior has announced a plan to give
> each citizen an 'governmentally certified' email address which allows
> more extensive practices with official governmental institutions.
> Potentially this could be a huge step forward in enabling/facilitating
> online citizen participation.
>
> Unfortunately i couldn't find information in english, but here is a
> german article covering the initiative
> http://www.thexblog.de/?p=4916
>
> I will send more info as i find it
> best
> Max
>
> _______________
>
> Max
>
> That is an interesting piece of information. Presumably, if one has a
> certified email ID as a citizenship enabler, some kind of basic
> connectivity also looks very much round the corner as a necessary
> citizen entitlement. Feeds very well into a rights based approach to
> the Internet, in terms of the positive rights aspect, of what got
> discussed earlier here as a ‘right to the Internet’.
>
> Best
>
> Parminder
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
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From avri at psg.com  Sat Oct 11 19:01:33 2008
From: avri at psg.com (Avri Doria)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:01:33 -0400
Subject: [governance] germany plans citizen email
In-Reply-To: <2FE10E94D2C541B4B56B999A0952859E@IAN>
References: <2FE10E94D2C541B4B56B999A0952859E@IAN>
Message-ID: <39F30DD9-CC7C-4776-9C83-167A5FAD3834@psg.com>


On 11 Oct 2008, at 01:38, Ian Peter wrote:

> First you create a universal digital identifier for each citizen  
> that they have no control over (e.g. they can't have more than one  
> for different purposes, change it to something else, run it on a  
> different computer, decide not to show their name in it etc.)
>


but would they be required to use t for anything other then government  
business?  sure if they use it for other stuff then tracking becomes  
possible, but if it is just your gov't id used when doing citizen stuff?

a.

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From sylvia.caras at gmail.com  Sat Oct 11 19:13:50 2008
From: sylvia.caras at gmail.com (Sylvia Caras)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:13:50 -0700
Subject: [governance] Hotels in Hyderabad
Message-ID: <b1161f110810111613w3dbd8327rdf7e2a77c3490d43@mail.gmail.com>

The  Novotel conference hotel was not on the negotiated price list
when IGF registration opened.  It was set aside for MAG members and
dignitaries.  I asked by email and was told there's no negotiated rate
and it's full.

There appears to be no other lodging within a mile of the convention
center.  Hence buses, taxis, long walks, ...

I haven't seen discussion here about who is planning to go.  I did
register but ...

Sylvia
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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Sat Oct 11 19:40:14 2008
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 10:40:14 +1100
Subject: [governance] germany plans citizen email
In-Reply-To: <39F30DD9-CC7C-4776-9C83-167A5FAD3834@psg.com>
Message-ID: <C06D8EC4B98D49B5923395D4BDA67A5A@IAN>


Comments below

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
> Sent: 12 October 2008 10:02
> To: Governance List
> Subject: Re: [governance] germany plans citizen email
> 
> 
> On 11 Oct 2008, at 01:38, Ian Peter wrote:

Not be, I was quoting Johannes Ernst
> 
> > First you create a universal digital identifier for each citizen
> > that they have no control over (e.g. they can't have more than one
> > for different purposes, change it to something else, run it on a
> > different computer, decide not to show their name in it etc.)
> >
> 
> 
> but would they be required to use t for anything other then government
> business?  sure if they use it for other stuff then tracking becomes
> possible, but if it is just your gov't id used when doing citizen stuff?
> 
> a.
> 
I don't know, I guess that's the sort of detail that's really needed to
evaluate this properly. But national ID schemes with attached data matching
capabilities are a privacy issue, and the US social security number is a
case in point.




> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008
> 2:18 PM

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From skorpio at gmail.com  Sat Oct 11 20:43:37 2008
From: skorpio at gmail.com (Jaco Aizenman)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 18:43:37 -0600
Subject: [governance] germany plans citizen email
In-Reply-To: <C06D8EC4B98D49B5923395D4BDA67A5A@IAN>
References: <39F30DD9-CC7C-4776-9C83-167A5FAD3834@psg.com>
	 <C06D8EC4B98D49B5923395D4BDA67A5A@IAN>
Message-ID: <d8bd2dac0810111743v28c51386vff71815a20d62d60@mail.gmail.com>

I can comment on what *already* happened in Costa Rica, where a similar
program was launched in 2000(*):

Most people use not just the Government, www.costarricense.cr , but also
Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo or/and the work email.

Tracking is a problem, but the problem applies not just for the public
sector providers but also for the private sector providers, which have even
much more pointers (email, searches, social sites, etc).

That´s why it is perceived locally as a necessity and as a human right
having an Internet Bill of Rights (Law #15890, presented in 2004).

(*) It was not just email, but:
-Free access all over the country,  including remote areas that satellite
access was used.
-Free website.
-The concept of universalizing virtual personality, including bank accounts
(Good for people in extreme poverty)) and others, which a a few years later
ended in the Congress with the virtual personality fundamental right,

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:

>
> Comments below
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
> > Sent: 12 October 2008 10:02
> > To: Governance List
> > Subject: Re: [governance] germany plans citizen email
> >
> >
> > On 11 Oct 2008, at 01:38, Ian Peter wrote:
>
> Not be, I was quoting Johannes Ernst
> >
> > > First you create a universal digital identifier for each citizen
> > > that they have no control over (e.g. they can't have more than one
> > > for different purposes, change it to something else, run it on a
> > > different computer, decide not to show their name in it etc.)
> > >
> >
> >
> > but would they be required to use t for anything other then government
> > business?  sure if they use it for other stuff then tracking becomes
> > possible, but if it is just your gov't id used when doing citizen stuff?
> >
> > a.
> >
> I don't know, I guess that's the sort of detail that's really needed to
> evaluate this properly. But national ID schemes with attached data matching
> capabilities are a privacy issue, and the US social security number is a
> case in point.
>
>
>
>
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date:
> 9/12/2008
> > 2:18 PM
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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>
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>



-- 
Jaco Aizenman L.
My iname is =jaco (http://xri.net/=jaco)
XDI Board member - www.xdi.org
Tel/Voicemail: 506-83461570
Costa Rica

What is an i-name?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-name
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From skorpio at gmail.com  Sat Oct 11 20:46:11 2008
From: skorpio at gmail.com (Jaco Aizenman)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 18:46:11 -0600
Subject: [governance] germany plans citizen email
In-Reply-To: <d8bd2dac0810111743v28c51386vff71815a20d62d60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <39F30DD9-CC7C-4776-9C83-167A5FAD3834@psg.com>
	 <C06D8EC4B98D49B5923395D4BDA67A5A@IAN>
	 <d8bd2dac0810111743v28c51386vff71815a20d62d60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d8bd2dac0810111746v772c6754q82ac0a094babf0d3@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/11/08, Jaco Aizenman <skorpio at gmail.com> wrote:
> I can comment on what *already* happened in Costa Rica, where a similar
> program was launched in 2000(*):
>
> Most people use not just the Government, www.costarricense.cr , but also
> Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo or/and the work email.
>
> Tracking is a problem, but the problem applies not just for the public
> sector providers but also for the private sector providers, which have even
> much more pointers (email, searches, social sites, etc).
>
> That´s why it is perceived locally as a necessity and as a human right
> having an Internet Bill of Rights (Law #15890, presented in 2004).
>
> (*) It was not just email, but:
> -Free access all over the country,  including remote areas that satellite
> access was used.
> -Free website.
> -The concept of universalizing virtual personality, including bank accounts
> (Good for people in extreme poverty)) and others, which a a few years later
> ended in the Congress with the virtual personality fundamental right,
>
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Comments below
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
>> > Sent: 12 October 2008 10:02
>> > To: Governance List
>> > Subject: Re: [governance] germany plans citizen email
>> >
>> >
>> > On 11 Oct 2008, at 01:38, Ian Peter wrote:
>>
>> Not be, I was quoting Johannes Ernst
>> >
>> > > First you create a universal digital identifier for each citizen
>> > > that they have no control over (e.g. they can't have more than one
>> > > for different purposes, change it to something else, run it on a
>> > > different computer, decide not to show their name in it etc.)
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > but would they be required to use t for anything other then government
>> > business?  sure if they use it for other stuff then tracking becomes
>> > possible, but if it is just your gov't id used when doing citizen
>> > stuff?
>> >
>> > a.
>> >
>> I don't know, I guess that's the sort of detail that's really needed to
>> evaluate this properly. But national ID schemes with attached data
>> matching
>> capabilities are a privacy issue, and the US social security number is a
>> case in point.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > ____________________________________________________________
>> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>> >
>> > For all list information and functions, see:
>> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date:
>> 9/12/2008
>> > 2:18 PM
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jaco Aizenman L.
> My iname is =jaco (http://xri.net/=jaco)
> XDI Board member - www.xdi.org
> Tel/Voicemail: 506-83461570
> Costa Rica
>
> What is an i-name?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-name
>


-- 
Jaco Aizenman L.
My iname is =jaco (http://xri.net/=jaco)
XDI Board member - www.xdi.org
Tel/Voicemail: 506-83461570
Costa Rica

What is an i-name?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-name
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From shailam at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 11 23:58:06 2008
From: shailam at yahoo.com (shaila mistry)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:58:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] Hotels in Hyderabad
Message-ID: <854485.70946.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi Sylvia
 Im planning to g but have not looked into Hotels yet
let me know what you find
shaila

 
be as a well......sure and limitless....
but as time befits.....assume other forms ....  
 





----- Original Message ----
From: Sylvia Caras <sylvia.caras at gmail.com>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 4:13:50 PM
Subject: [governance] Hotels in Hyderabad

The  Novotel conference hotel was not on the negotiated price list
when IGF registration opened.  It was set aside for MAG members and
dignitaries.  I asked by email and was told there's no negotiated rate
and it's full.

There appears to be no other lodging within a mile of the convention
center.  Hence buses, taxis, long walks, ...

I haven't seen discussion here about who is planning to go.  I did
register but ...

Sylvia
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Sun Oct 12 00:20:47 2008
From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 09:50:47 +0530
Subject: [governance] germany plans citizen email
In-Reply-To: <C06D8EC4B98D49B5923395D4BDA67A5A@IAN>
Message-ID: <20081012042058.CDFA1E0451@smtp3.electricembers.net>


> > but would they be required to use t for anything other then government
> > business?  sure if they use it for other stuff then tracking becomes
> > possible, but if it is just your gov't id used when doing citizen stuff?
> >
> > a.
> >
> I don't know, I guess that's the sort of detail that's really needed to
> evaluate this properly. 

If my impression of German society and systems is any good, it is obvious
that they wont be asking people to use the citizen id for all purposes. It
will only be for citizenship purposes. 

But national ID schemes with attached data
> matching
> capabilities are a privacy issue, and the US social security number is a
> case in point.

Yes, the social security number comparison is useful. This number has
privacy issues, but it has important social security implications as well
which is its primary purpose. Same is true of online enablers - and rights
and entitlements - for citizenship engagements. 

Online identity and data systems have higher and some unique privacy
challenges, an issue which needs to be strongly engaged with in this case.
Some privacy expert Ralf Bendrath, incidentally from Germany, may have
something to tell us on this. 

Parminder  


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com]
> Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 5:10 AM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Avri Doria'
> Subject: RE: [governance] germany plans citizen email
> 
> 
> Comments below
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
> > Sent: 12 October 2008 10:02
> > To: Governance List
> > Subject: Re: [governance] germany plans citizen email
> >
> >
> > On 11 Oct 2008, at 01:38, Ian Peter wrote:
> 
> Not be, I was quoting Johannes Ernst
> >
> > > First you create a universal digital identifier for each citizen
> > > that they have no control over (e.g. they can't have more than one
> > > for different purposes, change it to something else, run it on a
> > > different computer, decide not to show their name in it etc.)
> > >
> >
> >
> > but would they be required to use t for anything other then government
> > business?  sure if they use it for other stuff then tracking becomes
> > possible, but if it is just your gov't id used when doing citizen stuff?
> >
> > a.
> >
> I don't know, I guess that's the sort of detail that's really needed to
> evaluate this properly. But national ID schemes with attached data
> matching
> capabilities are a privacy issue, and the US social security number is a
> case in point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date:
> 9/12/2008
> > 2:18 PM
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
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From gurstein at gmail.com  Sun Oct 12 01:04:38 2008
From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 07:04:38 +0200
Subject: FW: [Bill-of-Rights] [governance] germany plans citizen email
Message-ID: <6366A2949E7B4804B58772397875AF9B@userPC>

Thanks very much for this Jaco, a very very interesting (and probably
necessary) linkage between a "Right to the Internet" as Parminder suggests
is implied by the German program, and "An Internet Bill of Rights" (A Bill
of Internet Rights?)... especially necessary in situations where a "Right to
the Internet" becomes a state imposed obligatory use of the Internet... (be
careful what you wish for ;-)
 
MG
 
-----Original Message-----
From: bill- of-rights-bounces at ipjustice.org
[mailto:bill-of-rights-bounces at ipjustice.org] On Behalf Of Jaco Aizenman
Sent: October-12-08 2:44 AM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Ian Peter; bill-of-rights at ipjustice.org
Cc: Avri Doria
Subject: Re: [Bill-of-Rights] [governance] germany plans citizen email


I can comment on what *already* happened in Costa Rica, where a similar
program was launched in 2000(*):

Most people use not just the Government, www.costarricense.cr , but also
Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo or/and the work email.

Tracking is a problem, but the problem applies not just for the public
sector providers but also for the private sector providers, which have even
much more pointers (email, searches, social sites, etc).

That´s why it is perceived locally as a necessity and as a human right
having an Internet Bill of Rights (Law #15890, presented in 2004).

(*) It was not just email, but:
-Free access all over the country,  including remote areas that satellite
access was used.
-Free website.
-The concept of universalizing virtual personality, including bank accounts
(Good for people in extreme poverty)) and others, which a a few years later
ended in the Congress with the virtual personality fundamental right, 


On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:



Comments below


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
> Sent: 12 October 2008 10:02
> To: Governance List
> Subject: Re: [governance] germany plans citizen email
>
>
> On 11 Oct 2008, at 01:38, Ian Peter wrote:


Not be, I was quoting Johannes Ernst
>
> > First you create a universal digital identifier for each citizen
> > that they have no control over (e.g. they can't have more than one
> > for different purposes, change it to something else, run it on a
> > different computer, decide not to show their name in it etc.)
> >
>
>
> but would they be required to use t for anything other then government
> business?  sure if they use it for other stuff then tracking becomes
> possible, but if it is just your gov't id used when doing citizen stuff?
>
> a.
>

I don't know, I guess that's the sort of detail that's really needed to
evaluate this properly. But national ID schemes with attached data matching
capabilities are a privacy issue, and the US social security number is a
case in point.





> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008
> 2:18 PM


____________________________________________________________
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-- 
Jaco Aizenman L.
My iname is =jaco (http://xri.net/=jaco)
XDI Board member - www.xdi.org
Tel/Voicemail: 506-83461570 
Costa Rica

What is an i-name?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-name

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From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au  Sun Oct 12 04:43:21 2008
From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 01:43:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] germany plans citizen email
Message-ID: <802813.11175.qm@web54108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I'm not sure what the kerfuffle is about this proposal? Maybe list members should follow my website for happenings as I noted a story from The Sunday Times 2 weeks ago where in Britain "Ministers are considering spending up to £12 billion on a database to monitor
and store the internet browsing habits, e-mail and telephone records of
everyone in Britain." See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4882600.ece.

Governments already have the power to monitor pretty much what they want for a whole range of reasons, and having citizen email would make no difference. If a government has an interest in what you do, they can pretty much monitor it.

The Americans have a centre in a mountain that monitors pretty much everything electronic that they want to monitor, and has done for years. Someone on the list pointed out the name of it last time I raised it, but I've forgotten, again!


And see my website at http://technewsreview.com.au/ for stories on issues such as this when I find them.

Cheers
David



----- Original Message ----
From: Parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Ralf Bendrath <bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Sent: Sunday, 12 October, 2008 3:20:47 PM
Subject: RE: [governance] germany plans citizen email


> > but would they be required to use t for anything other then government
> > business?  sure if they use it for other stuff then tracking becomes
> > possible, but if it is just your gov't id used when doing citizen stuff?
> >
> > a.
> >
> I don't know, I guess that's the sort of detail that's really needed to
> evaluate this properly. 

If my impression of German society and systems is any good, it is obvious
that they wont be asking people to use the citizen id for all purposes. It
will only be for citizenship purposes. 

But national ID schemes with attached data
> matching
> capabilities are a privacy issue, and the US social security number is a
> case in point.

Yes, the social security number comparison is useful. This number has
privacy issues, but it has important social security implications as well
which is its primary purpose. Same is true of online enablers - and rights
and entitlements - for citizenship engagements. 

Online identity and data systems have higher and some unique privacy
challenges, an issue which needs to be strongly engaged with in this case.
Some privacy expert Ralf Bendrath, incidentally from Germany, may have
something to tell us on this. 

Parminder  


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com]
> Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 5:10 AM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Avri Doria'
> Subject: RE: [governance] germany plans citizen email
> 
> 
> Comments below
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
> > Sent: 12 October 2008 10:02
> > To: Governance List
> > Subject: Re: [governance] germany plans citizen email
> >
> >
> > On 11 Oct 2008, at 01:38, Ian Peter wrote:
> 
> Not be, I was quoting Johannes Ernst
> >
> > > First you create a universal digital identifier for each citizen
> > > that they have no control over (e.g. they can't have more than one
> > > for different purposes, change it to something else, run it on a
> > > different computer, decide not to show their name in it etc.)
> > >
> >
> >
> > but would they be required to use t for anything other then government
> > business?  sure if they use it for other stuff then tracking becomes
> > possible, but if it is just your gov't id used when doing citizen stuff?
> >
> > a.
> >
> I don't know, I guess that's the sort of detail that's really needed to
> evaluate this properly. But national ID schemes with attached data
> matching
> capabilities are a privacy issue, and the US social security number is a
> case in point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date:
> 9/12/2008
> > 2:18 PM
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


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      Make the switch to the world&#39;s best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail
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From skorpio at gmail.com  Sun Oct 12 06:06:38 2008
From: skorpio at gmail.com (Jaco Aizenman)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 04:06:38 -0600
Subject: [Bill-of-Rights] [governance] germany plans citizen email
In-Reply-To: <48f188a5.2a528c0a.765d.ffffe43cSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
References: <FE457482D9C14A3490F7A0E4195ED289@userPC>
	 <48f188a5.2a528c0a.765d.ffffe43cSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <d8bd2dac0810120306xd133816s9bb46ff2280bd370@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Parminder and Michael,

A non professional translation to English for the virtual personality
fundamental right is here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070704102907/http://virtualrights.org/files/Congress%20of%20the%20Republic%20of%20Costa%20Rica.doc

The original in Spanish, VIrtual Personality fundamental right, Law #15890,
is here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070704102907/http://virtualrights.org/files/PROYECTO%20PERSONALIDAD%20VIRTUAL.doc

Parminder, the free website is one page, and the reason is to offer several
components of a virtual personality, not just email, but websites, and in
the future hopefully a bank account (good for people in extreme poverty) and
other components (voice mail, etc).More here but in Spanish:
http://paginas.racsa.co.cr/costarricense/admin1/login.php

Michael, in Costa RIca we do not use the terms, "Internet Bill of RIghts",
or "Right to the Internet", but "Virtual Personality fundamental right",
which includes things that may not be in the Internet, at least today, such
as a bank account or your PSTN phone number.

Please be kind to let me know if I can contribute with more information or
exchanges.

Best regards,

Jaco


On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>wrote:

>  Mike, I also just now sent a similar email to Jaco J (cut-pasted below).
> Parminder
>
>
>
> Hi Jaco,
>
>
>
> Can you please forward some documents on Costa Rican law  or bill of rights
> in this matter.
>
>
>
> I will especially like more information on what is meant by
>
>
>
> - Free access all over the country,  including remote areas that satellite
> access was used.
> -Free website.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Parminder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Michael Gurstein [mailto:gurstein at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:22 AM
> *To:* 'Jaco Aizenman'
> *Subject:* RE: [Bill-of-Rights] [governance] germany plans citizen email
>
>
>
> Hi Jaco,
>
>
>
> Thanks very much for this...
>
>
>
> I'm presenting at the IGF on Right to the Internet (or some such) and I'm
> very interested in the experience in Costa Rica, with which I wasn't
> familiar... You wouldn't happen to know of any sources (in English
> my Spanish wouldn't work for the nuances required) that summarize and/or
> dosuss tje current programs in Costa Rica.
>
>
>
> Tks,
>
>
>
> MG
>
>
> Michael Gurstein, Ph.D.
> Centre for Community Informatics Research, Training and Development
> Ste. 2101-989 Nelson St.
> Vancouver BC CANADA v6z 2s1
> http://www.communityinformatics.net
> tel./fax +1-604-602-0624
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* bill-of-rights-bounces at ipjustice.org [mailto:
> bill-of-rights-bounces at ipjustice.org] *On Behalf Of *Jaco Aizenman
> *Sent:* October-12-08 2:44 AM
> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Ian Peter; bill-of-rights at ipjustice.org
> *Cc:* Avri Doria
> *Subject:* Re: [Bill-of-Rights] [governance] germany plans citizen email
>
> I can comment on what *already* happened in Costa Rica, where a similar
> program was launched in 2000(*):
>
> Most people use not just the Government, www.costarricense.cr , but also
> Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo or/and the work email.
>
> Tracking is a problem, but the problem applies not just for the public
> sector providers but also for the private sector providers, which have even
> much more pointers (email, searches, social sites, etc).
>
> That´s why it is perceived locally as a necessity and as a human right
> having an Internet Bill of Rights (Law #15890, presented in 2004).
>
> (*) It was not just email, but:
> -Free access all over the country,  including remote areas that satellite
> access was used.
> -Free website.
> -The concept of universalizing virtual personality, including bank accounts
> (Good for people in extreme poverty)) and others, which a a few years later
> ended in the Congress with the virtual personality fundamental right,
>
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:
>
>
> Comments below
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
> > Sent: 12 October 2008 10:02
> > To: Governance List
> > Subject: Re: [governance] germany plans citizen email
> >
> >
> > On 11 Oct 2008, at 01:38, Ian Peter wrote:
>
> Not be, I was quoting Johannes Ernst
> >
> > > First you create a universal digital identifier for each citizen
> > > that they have no control over (e.g. they can't have more than one
> > > for different purposes, change it to something else, run it on a
> > > different computer, decide not to show their name in it etc.)
> > >
> >
> >
> > but would they be required to use t for anything other then government
> > business?  sure if they use it for other stuff then tracking becomes
> > possible, but if it is just your gov't id used when doing citizen stuff?
> >
> > a.
> >
>
> I don't know, I guess that's the sort of detail that's really needed to
> evaluate this properly. But national ID schemes with attached data matching
> capabilities are a privacy issue, and the US social security number is a
> case in point.
>
>
>
>
>
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date:
> 9/12/2008
> > 2:18 PM
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jaco Aizenman L.
> My iname is =jaco (http://xri.net/=jaco)
> XDI Board member - www.xdi.org
> Tel/Voicemail: 506-83461570
> Costa Rica
>
> What is an i-name?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-name
>
>


-- 
Jaco Aizenman L.
My iname is =jaco (http://xri.net/=jaco)
XDI Board member - www.xdi.org
Tel/Voicemail: 506-83461570
Costa Rica

What is an i-name?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-name
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From email at hakik.org  Sun Oct 12 10:39:47 2008
From: email at hakik.org (Hakikur Rahman)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:39:47 +0600
Subject: FW: [Bill-of-Rights] [governance] germany plans citizen
In-Reply-To: <6366A2949E7B4804B58772397875AF9B@userPC>
References: <6366A2949E7B4804B58772397875AF9B@userPC>
Message-ID: <20081012143410.826C5A6C4F@smtp2.electricembers.net>

A noteworthy remark. We have to be careful what 
we wish for in the name of 'Right to the Internet' or 'Bill of Internet Right'.

Best regards,
Hakik

At 11:04 AM 10/12/2008, Michael Gurstein wrote:
>Thanks very much for this Jaco, a very very 
>interesting (and probably necessary) linkage 
>between a "Right to the Internet" as Parminder 
>suggests is implied by the German program, and 
>"An Internet Bill of Rights" (A Bill of Internet 
>Rights?)... especially necessary in situations 
>where a "Right to the Internet" becomes a state 
>imposed obligatory use of the Internet... (be careful what you wish for ;-)
>
>MG
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bill- of-rights-bounces at ipjustice.org 
>[mailto:bill-of-rights-bounces at ipjustice.org] On Behalf Of Jaco Aizenman
>Sent: October-12-08 2:44 AM
>To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Ian Peter; bill-of-rights at ipjustice.org
>Cc: Avri Doria
>Subject: Re: [Bill-of-Rights] [governance] germany plans citizen email
>
>I can comment on what *already* happened in 
>Costa Rica, where a similar program was launched in 2000(*):
>
>Most people use not just the Government, 
><http://www.costarricense.cr>www.costarricense.cr 
>  , but also Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo or/and the work email.
>
>Tracking is a problem, but the problem applies 
>not just for the public sector providers but 
>also for the private sector providers, which 
>have even much more pointers (email, searches, social sites, etc).
>
>That´s why it is perceived locally as a 
>necessity and as a human right having an 
>Internet Bill of Rights (Law #15890, presented in 2004).
>
>(*) It was not just email, but:
>-Free access all over the country,  including 
>remote areas that satellite access was used.
>-Free website.
>-The concept of universalizing virtual 
>personality, including bank accounts (Good for 
>people in extreme poverty)) and others, which a 
>a few years later ended in the Congress with the 
>virtual personality fundamental right,
>
>On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Ian Peter 
><<mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:
>
>Comments below
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
> > Sent: 12 October 2008 10:02
> > To: Governance List
> > Subject: Re: [governance] germany plans citizen email
> >
> >
> > On 11 Oct 2008, at 01:38, Ian Peter wrote:
>
>Not be, I was quoting Johannes Ernst
> >
> > > First you create a universal digital identifier for each citizen
> > > that they have no control over (e.g. they can't have more than one
> > > for different purposes, change it to something else, run it on a
> > > different computer, decide not to show their name in it etc.)
> > >
> >
> >
> > but would they be required to use t for anything other then government
> > business?  sure if they use it for other stuff then tracking becomes
> > possible, but if it is just your gov't id used when doing citizen stuff?
> >
> > a.
> >
>I don't know, I guess that's the sort of detail that's really needed to
>evaluate this properly. But national ID schemes with attached data matching
>capabilities are a privacy issue, and the US social security number is a
>case in point.
>
>
>
>
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > 
> <mailto:governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org>governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> > 
> <http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance>http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>http://www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008
> > 2:18 PM
>
>____________________________________________________________
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>My iname is =jaco (<http://xri.net/=jaco>http://xri.net/=jaco)
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>Tel/Voicemail: 506-83461570
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sat Oct 11 20:54:15 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:54:15 -0700
Subject: FW: [Bill-of-Rights] [governance] germany plans citizen
References: <6366A2949E7B4804B58772397875AF9B@userPC> <20081012143410.826C5A6C4F@smtp2.electricembers.net>
Message-ID: <48F14AB7.B36293D@ix.netcom.com>

Hakikur and all,

  Exactly right!  Any state recognized and enforced "Right" implies
or sometimes directly mandates certain responsibilities that can
be specifically defined and may not be what we have or had in
mind.

  With that said, government sponsored or mandated Email for
example would not be something I would support as in could,
and likely would mitigate ones privacy and other freedoms, such
as freedom of speech or expression.

Hakikur Rahman wrote:

> A noteworthy remark. We have to be careful what we wish for in the
> name of 'Right to the Internet' or 'Bill of Internet Right'.
>
> Best regards,
> Hakik
>
> At 11:04 AM 10/12/2008, Michael Gurstein wrote:
>
>> Thanks very much for this Jaco, a very very interesting (and
>> probably necessary) linkage between a "Right to the Internet" as
>> Parminder suggests is implied by the German program, and "An
>> Internet Bill of Rights" (A Bill of Internet Rights?)... especially
>> necessary in situations where a "Right to the Internet" becomes a
>> state imposed obligatory use of the Internet... (be careful what you
>> wish for ;-)
>>
>> MG
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bill-of-rights-bounces at ipjustice.org [
>> mailto:bill-of-rights-bounces at ipjustice.org] On Behalf Of Jaco
>> Aizenman
>> Sent: October-12-08 2:44 AM
>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Ian Peter;
>> bill-of-rights at ipjustice.org
>> Cc: Avri Doria
>> Subject: Re: [Bill-of-Rights] [governance] germany plans citizen
>> email
>>
>> I can comment on what *already* happened in Costa Rica, where a
>> similar program was launched in 2000(*):
>>
>> Most people use not just the Government, www.costarricense.cr , but
>> also Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo or/and the work email.
>>
>> Tracking is a problem, but the problem applies not just for the
>> public sector providers but also for the private sector providers,
>> which have even much more pointers (email, searches, social sites,
>> etc).
>>
>> That´s why it is perceived locally as a necessity and as a human
>> right having an Internet Bill of Rights (Law #15890, presented in
>> 2004).
>>
>> (*) It was not just email, but:
>> -Free access all over the country,  including remote areas that
>> satellite access was used.
>> -Free website.
>> -The concept of universalizing virtual personality, including bank
>> accounts (Good for people in extreme poverty)) and others, which a a
>> few years later ended in the Congress with the virtual personality
>> fundamental right,
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>      Comments below
>>
>>      > -----Original Message-----
>>      > From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com ]
>>      > Sent: 12 October 2008 10:02
>>      > To: Governance List
>>      > Subject: Re: [governance] germany plans citizen email
>>      >
>>      >
>>      > On 11 Oct 2008, at 01:38, Ian Peter wrote:
>>
>>      Not be, I was quoting Johannes Ernst
>>      >
>>      > > First you create a universal digital identifier for each
>>      citizen
>>      > > that they have no control over (e.g. they can't have more
>>      than one
>>      > > for different purposes, change it to something else, run it
>>      on a
>>      > > different computer, decide not to show their name in it
>>      etc.)
>>      > >
>>      >
>>      >
>>      > but would they be required to use t for anything other then
>>      government
>>      > business?  sure if they use it for other stuff then tracking
>>      becomes
>>      > possible, but if it is just your gov't id used when doing
>>      citizen stuff?
>>      >
>>      > a.
>>      >
>>      I don't know, I guess that's the sort of detail that's really
>>      needed to
>>      evaluate this properly. But national ID schemes with attached
>>      data matching
>>      capabilities are a privacy issue, and the US social security
>>      number is a
>>      case in point.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>      > ____________________________________________________________
>>      > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      >     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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>>      >     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>      >
>>      > For all list information and functions, see:
>>      >     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>      > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>>      > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>      > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release
>>      Date: 9/12/2008
>>      > 2:18 PM
>>
>>      ____________________________________________________________
>>      You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jaco Aizenman L.
>> My iname is =jaco (http://xri.net/=jaco)
>> XDI Board member - www.xdi.org
>> Tel/Voicemail: 506-83461570
>> Costa Rica
>>
>> What is an i-name?
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-name
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
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Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 12 00:05:46 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 21:05:46 -0700
Subject: [governance] UK Government Says More Spying Needed
Message-ID: <48F1779A.A503A47F@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  To give some of you a more complete understanding of how
far there is to go and where some governments really stand
on your rights this article struck me as scarry:

"Our wonderful government here in the UK has
decided we're not being surveilled enough, and agreed to spend £12
billion on a programme to monitor every Briton's phone calls, e-mails,
and internet usage. According to various sources,
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/UK_government_to_spy_on_phone,_email,_browsing,_of_entire_population
upwards of £1 billion
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/64725/Spies-will-tap-into-all-emails-and-calls
has already been spent
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4882600.ece on the
uber-database. Rationale?  Terrorism, of course (no prizes for
guessing).  Needless to say, not everyone is as happy as Larry over 
this: Michael Parker pointed out
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?%A312bn_database_for_stalker_state&in_article_id=339462&in_page_id=34
how us Brits are being 'stalked.' I'm just looking forward to when the
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=uk+data+loss&btnG=Search&meta=
data gets lost."

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Mon Oct 13 00:54:58 2008
From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 10:24:58 +0530
Subject: [governance] Skype, telecom industry and the openness of the
 Internet
Message-ID: <20081013045507.2B7D0E145C@smtp3.electricembers.net>

Hi All, An interesting article implicating 'openness of the Internet'. Would
be a good issue to bring up on day 2 main sessions at the IGF, Hyderabad,
which includes references to openness. Parminder 

 

 

(CTIA is the international association for wireless telecomms industry...)

 

----------

 

Skype blasts CTIA

http://www.telecomasia.net/article.php?type=article
<http://www.telecomasia.net/article.php?type=article&id_article=10733>
&id_article=10733

 

 

Oct 10, 2008

By Sue Marek/FierceWireless

telecomasia.net

 

In a letter to the FCC, Skype's Senior Director, Government and Regulatory
Affairs Chris Libertelli blasted the CTIA and Sprint Nextel for telling the
FCC that the "entire Internet is open", when in fact, even the most-recently
announced handsets still block the Skype application, proving that the claim
of openness is false.

 

Libertelli also said that the CTIA's claim of openness in the wireless
industry directly contradicts that association's current litigation with the
FCC in which it wants the commission to "overturn the very openness rule
they now claim to embrace," Libertelli writes.

 

If the wireless industry is serious about openness, Libertelli says, CTIA
would immediately withdraw that litigation.

 

Open networks is a major theme in the industry right now and was a hot topic
at the CTIA IT and Entertainment conference in San Francisco last month.
Last April, the FCC denied Skype's petition to apply the Carterphone rules
to the cellular phone industry.

 

The Carterphone rules were enacted in the 1960s to force the POTS industry
to allow devices other than those provided by the old AT&T to connect to the
network.

 

 

 

Full letter posted below.

(http://www.fiercewireless.com/press-releases/skype-letter-fcc-chairman-mart
in ) 

October 8, 2008
Electronic Filing
Chairman Kevin J. Martin
Federal Communications Commission
445 12th Street, SW
12th Street Lobby, TW-A325
Washington, D.C. 20554

Re: Ex Parte Presentation; RM-11361

Dear Chairman Martin:


Skype Communications S.A.R.L. ("Skype") responds briefly to CTIA's letter of
September 24th and Sprint Nextel's letter of September 26th, both of which
take issue
with Skype's earlier letter to you regarding the lack of openness of
wireless networks.
CTIA and Sprint go to great lengths to rebut Skype's characterization of
remarks made
at a CTIA conference earlier this month, which Skype viewed as indicative of
a hesitant,
closed network mentality among wireless operators.

 

Rather than prolong an empty debate about whose characterization of remarks
at the conference is correct, let me point out that Skype's application is
forbidden, blocked and otherwise interfered with by the largest CTIA
members.1 When CTIA members claim that "the entire Internet is open," the
intended implication is that the entire Internet is open, including to
multi-modal Internet communications applications like Skype. The truth of
the matter, however, is that, despite their representations to thecontrary,
applications are blocked even on the most recently-announced
advancedhandsets.2 The proof of Skype's argument is in the conduct of CTIA
members, no matter what speeches are made at conferences. If Skype is
blocked, the network is not
open.


I also would like to take this opportunity to remind you that CTIA is
currently
suing the Commission to overturn the very openness rule they now claim to
embrace.
If the wireless industry is serious about openness, CTIA would immediately
withdraw
that litigation.


CTIA attempts to sidestep the fact that its members' networks are not open
by
arguing that Skype itself is closed and, apparently, therefore cannot
advocate consumer
empowerment principles and network openness. To make this point, they cite a
blog
post by Mr. Michael Robertson, CEO of Gizmo Project, a VOIP application.


Fundamentally, Mr. Robertson is wrong. Mr. Robertson confuses open networks
with
open platforms. Skype is an open platform. Anyone, anywhere on the planet
can
download Skype for free, and he or she will be able to use Skype. Skype's
software is
open to any application developer through our public Application Programming
Interface ('API') program. Over 10,000 developers have taken advantage of
this API
and are part of Skype's developer program. In fact there are many
applications that use
Skype's APIs to send calls to/from Skype users and SIP endpoints, including
VoSky,
Fring, etc. Skype also recently collaborated with Digium/Asterisk, which
will now
bring Skype into "soft PBXs" for millions of users and allow many forms of
applications
and services to connect to Skype seamlessly.


Mr. Robertson is also wrong on the law. He rehashes the incumbent wireless
operators' various arguments against network neutrality and confuses to whom
the
Internet Policy Statement applies. Openness rules are properly targeted at
network
operators because of the limited intermodal choices available to US
consumers in a
wireless market dominated by the top three operators. Conversely, there is
nearly
limitless choice in Internet applications, with fierce competition and few
or no barriers
to entry. Quite properly, therefore, the Internet Policy Statement applies
to networks and
not to applications. Its aim is to assure an open Internet so that consumers
can choose
from the limitless number of applications available to Internet users,
absent
discrimination by network operators. To apply it to Internet applications
would flipt
the Internet Policy statement on its head. What the network operators are
doing is very
different. They restrict consumer choice by blocking Skype and other
applications to
commenting on the iPhone's closed operating system, Steve Wozniak,
co-founder of Apple
Computer, said "Consumers aren't getting all they want when companies are
very proprietary
and lock their products down...I would like to write some more powerful apps
than what you're
allowed."/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyand
telecoms
/3145691/Steve-Wozniak-interview-iconic-co-founder-on-the-iPod-iPhone-and-fu
ture-for-
Apple.html.

 

Oct 8, 2008 3 which consumers would like to have access. To apply the
Internet Policy Statement to
Internet applications would flip the Policy Statement on its head.
We greatly appreciate CTIA's invitation to attend the April show in Las
Vegas. If
CTIA members would like to prove their openness once and for all, Skype's
top
executives will be available to attend the conference. When a Skype user can
legally call
the Chairman of the FCC on the mobile broadband networks of each of the top
three
wireless networks, we will know that their conduct is consistent with the
consumer
empowerment principles of the Internet Policy Statement.
We look forward to working with the Commission and CTIA members to ensure
that the whole Internet - including multimodal applications such as Skype -
is available
to consumers.


Respectfully submitted,
________________________
Christopher Libertelli
Senior Director, Government and
Regulatory Affairs
SKYPE COMMUNICATIONS S.A.R.L.
6e etage, 22/24 boulevard Royal,
Luxembourg, L-2449 LUXEMBOURG

 

 

 

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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Mon Oct 13 17:51:00 2008
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:51:00 +1100
Subject: [governance] drupal skills anyone?
Message-ID: <79F551EF7B5F45BA86296E2241C46288@IAN>

Thanks to APC the IGC website is now relocated and we now also have the site
installed with drupal content management system. So now to configure it.

 

To save me stretching the friendship with APC too far during a busy time for
them, if anyone out there is familiar with setting up sites in drupal CMS
and can assist with the IGC site setup, could they drop me an email?

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Ian Peter

PO Box 429

Bangalow NSW 2479

Australia

Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773

www.ianpeter.com

 

 

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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Thu Oct 16 01:54:32 2008
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:54:32 +0500
Subject: [governance] The Impact of Open Source Software on Transforming
 Government - Live Webinar
Message-ID: <701af9f70810152254n55e1a114nab64e57927120eb1@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, this may be off-topic but many of you will be interested in this:

Government Open Source Conference (GOSCON),  Oregon State University
and the World Bank's e-Development Thematic Group, invite you to join
via live webcast a videoconferenced Global Dialogue between Portland,
Washington DC, Moscow, Colombo, Daccar, Accra, Kigali and Brasilia on:

The Impact of Open Source Software on Transforming Government

12:00 - 3:00 pm (Washington DC time), October 20, 2008

LIVE WEBCAST: http://www.worldbank.org/edevelopment/live

Government transformation and information and communication technology
dignitaries from around the world will convene in person and via video
conference for a Global Dialogue on ?The Impact of Open Source
Software on Transforming Government?. The discussion will include 6
countries on five continents, presenting a range of initiatives,
opportunities and experience on a range topics which are of critical
importance to governments everywhere.  This executive panel represents
an outstanding global, non-technical  view of the
impact of Open Source Software based on their direct experience. The
workshop will explore both the business case and real-world
applications for open technology to deliver the next generation of
government services. The US has valuable experience in open source
software development, at the federal, local and academic level. The
speakers assembled in Oregon will provide a very rich base for the
policy dialogue with policy makers from our client countries. This is
also a great opportunity for South-South dialogue on this important
topic for governments worldwide.

All materials will be available at:
http://www.worldbank.org/edevelopment and http://goscon.org/summit

About e-Development Thematic Group

e-Development Thematic Group is a global forum and community of
professionals interested in the role of ICT in development,  open for
participation by both World Bank staff and external clients and
partners. The e-TG is hosted by Global ICT Dept in collaboration with
ISG, WBI, PREM, and other partners. Visit us at
http://www.worldbank.org/edevelopment to download materials for this
and all previous e-development seminars (over 120 since 2001). Watch
some of the recent events sponsored by the e-Development Thematic
Group if you missed them (with links to videos, slides, speaker
profiles, exclusive interviews, background materials etc.)

  ICT Applications for the Public Sector http://go.worldbank.org/YLBJQROJZ0
  Government Enterprise Architecture as Enabler of Public Sector Reform
  http://go.worldbank.org/NNEZOTX020
  Next-Generation Organizational Models for e-Government
  http://go.worldbank.org/2LA3GGGEA0
  India's Emergence as a Global IT Player: The Role of NASSCOM
  http://go.worldbank.org/B6DF3R8L60
  The Potential of Global Sourcing of Services for Growth
  http://go.worldbank.org/QFF0GUTSF0

About the Government Open Source Conference (GOSCON)

GOSCON targetes specifically to agency CIOs and management-level
personnel, their planning, policy and procurement staff. It is
produced by the Open Source Lab Public (OSL) Sector Communities
Program at Oregon State University. OSL offers a professional hosting
environment to the open source community, as well as software
development services to industry.  OSL hosts and supports some of the
world?s largest open source projects such as the Linux Kernel, Plone,
Drupal, Gentoo, Debian, Apache, The FOSSology Project, and OpenOffice.
Its outreach and educational programs include GOSCON, the Government
Open Source Conference.

-- 

Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
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From maxsenges at gmail.com  Thu Oct 16 17:55:27 2008
From: maxsenges at gmail.com (Max Senges)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:55:27 -0700
Subject: [governance] Request for Comments (RFCs) as method for gathering
 input and formalize results of IGF work
Message-ID: <4d976d8e0810161455q584aac65ka2cde52d53e12ffd@mail.gmail.com>

Dear IBR community (i copy the IGC list but would appreciate if we could
have the discussion located on the IBR list)

In preparation to our (Internet Bill of Rights DC's) workshop we invite
stakeholders interested in participating and shaping our workshop to submit
ideas/proposals etc. on how to fulfill the IBR's mission: "the IBR coalition
wants to be first and foremost a platform facilitating collaboration and
dovetailing the work of the Dynamic Coalitions especially as they relate to
Rights on the Internet. It wants to build a collection and showcase for the
federated results of all the Dynamic Coalitions" [http://tinyurl.com/44qdcq]

In this context i looked into the IETF/IAB's practice of discussing and
finding consensus around Requests for Comments (RFCs). Does that method not
represent a very viable approach we can consider to produce more tangible
results at the IGF?

>From the RFC wikipedia entry:

Request for Comments (RFC) describe methods, behaviors, research, or
innovations applicable to [Internet Governance]

The RFC tradition of pragmatic, experience-driven, after-the-fact standards
authorship accomplished by individuals or small working groups has important
advantages over the more formal, committee-driven process typical of ISO and
national standards bodies.
...
Each RFC is assigned a status with regard to the Internet standardization
process. This status is one of the following: Informational, Experimental,
Best Current Practice (BCP), Standards Track, or Historic [sic].
Standards-track documents are further divided into Proposed Standard, Draft
Standard, and Internet Standard documents.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Request_for_Comments]


I understand that the IGF is not a decision making body, but it can produce
recommendations and come up with suggestions for solutions suggesting e.g.
Rights standards (privacy, freedom of speech, etc.) through standardized
Terms of Services on platforms like gmail, facebook, etc.

The IGF-RFC would be suggestions and sites/institutions that comply with
them could use a "human readable" iconset (badge similar to the W3C standard
compliance<http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_N2x6-vfVJfzfM:http://www.sortedsites.com/images/w3c-big.jpg>or
maybe verisign
badge<http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vansgifts.com/images/verisign.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.vansgifts.com/&h=68&w=107&sz=4&hl=en&start=3&um=1&usg=__66M6txVu5h1b1vlkD6xjXT93arA=&tbnid=iHYOcfQETJo_mM:&tbnh=54&tbnw=85&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dverisign%2Bsecured%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN>)
to make it easier for the user to understand the conditions on the given
site.

Looking forward to your thoughts

Max



---------------------------------------------------

"I am, You are, We are information"
                            Camille de Toledo - Coming of Age at the End of
History

-------------------------------------------------
Dr. Max Senges

US-Mobile: +1 650 714 9826
Spanish-Mobile: + 34 693343837

www.maxsenges.com
www.knowledgeentrepreneur.com
------------------------------------------------------------
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Thu Oct 16 08:23:46 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:23:46 -0700
Subject: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored
Message-ID: <48F73252.7260E499@ix.netcom.com>

All,

Sorry to read of this.  What's next in the UK, toilet cams
perhaps?  Or perhaps manditory implanted RFID tracking
chips?

God save the queen!  ( Poor woman )  >:(

P.S. But I am sure Stalins soul is getting a reprieve by
St. Peter...

See:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/UKgovernment/Parliament/DG_078075

The Communications Data Bill (2008) will lead to the creation of
a single, centralized database containing records of all e-mails sent,
websites visited and mobile phones used by UK citizens. In
a carnivore-on-steroids programme, as all vestiges of communication
privacy are stripped away, The BBC reports that Home Secretary Jacqui
Smith says  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7671046.stm this
is a "necessity".

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Thu Oct 16 08:41:11 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:41:11 -0700
Subject: [governance] Tool To Allow ISPs To Scan Every File You Transmit
Message-ID: <48F73667.879760CD@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  I believe or prefer to believe that this product, although by
no means a new type of software, is well intentioned, but
indeed has far reaching implications that could blow up
in ISP's faces...  Yet I am quite sure that the IP crowd
will be falling all over themselves to get this sort of software
to be manditory for ISP's and universities to impliment.

See:
Brilliant Digital Entertainment, an Australian software company, has
grabbed the attention of the NY attorney general's office with a tool
they have designed that  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27198621
can scan every file that passes between an ISP and its customers.
The tool can 'check every file passing through an Internet provider's
network every image, every movie, every document attached to an
e-mail or found in a Web search  to see if it matches a list of illegal
images.' As with the removal of the alt.binary newgroups, this is
being promoted under the guise of preventing child porn. The privacy
implications of this tool are staggering."

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
____________________________________________________________
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From peter at peter-dambier.de  Fri Oct 17 09:23:42 2008
From: peter at peter-dambier.de (Peter Dambier)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 15:23:42 +0200
Subject: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored
In-Reply-To: <48F73252.7260E499@ix.netcom.com>
References: <48F73252.7260E499@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <48F891DE.9040206@peter-dambier.de>

I wont give the link here - but toilet cam...
You cannot miss them as long as google is not censored.

I used to be working for a computer company that got
bankrupt - maybe because they watched the toilet cam
all day long and did not have time to build computers.

In the UK that database means everybody can read it
not only in the UK

Imagine Monty Python, King Phillip and the Prince of Wales
they are all known for their peculiar sense of humor and
now everybody can read their emails.

kind regards
Peter


Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> All,
> 
> Sorry to read of this.  What's next in the UK, toilet cams
> perhaps?  Or perhaps manditory implanted RFID tracking
> chips?
> 
> God save the queen!  ( Poor woman )  >:(
> 
> P.S. But I am sure Stalins soul is getting a reprieve by
> St. Peter...
> 
> See:
> 
> http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/UKgovernment/Parliament/DG_078075
> 
> The Communications Data Bill (2008) will lead to the creation of
> a single, centralized database containing records of all e-mails sent,
> websites visited and mobile phones used by UK citizens. In
> a carnivore-on-steroids programme, as all vestiges of communication
> privacy are stripped away, The BBC reports that Home Secretary Jacqui
> Smith says  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7671046.stm this
> is a "necessity".
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>    Abraham Lincoln
> 
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> 
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

-- 
Peter and Karin Dambier
Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
Rimbacher Strasse 16
D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
+49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
+49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
http://www.peter-dambier.de/
http://iason.site.voila.fr/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
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From ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com  Fri Oct 17 12:15:05 2008
From: ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com (linda misek-falkoff)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:15:05 -0400
Subject: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored
In-Reply-To: <48F73252.7260E499@ix.netcom.com>
References: <48F73252.7260E499@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <45ed74050810170915o24ef1021u8931494c50af74bf@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jeffrey, so goes it for the Messenger!



The news is not always delightful, but blessed are those who share it and
ignite discussion.  Thanks much for your attention to this.  And
transporting the messages here.



Many of us being in communications fields directly or indirectly, in fact
perhaps All might be able to caucus productively on models of electronic
info systems governance - express, or derivable.



 In the present setting there seems (?) an underlying, at-least dualistic
model of *context* versus (contrasting with) *content*.



When one stores "setting" info, that is where and when and who transactions
take place (contextual matters of space and time, actors id's etc). The
reports seem to be alleging that this capture is not so intrusive (on a
Rights-based or other dimension), only contextual, some might call it meta
data - or use somehow related terms - what think U?



Zo ... what I have read is that it is purported: that message content won't
be stored.  If so, one still looks to context as content (usually).



But these are musings.  It could be quite interesting to compare musings or
"other" on models for what is happening or planned for the currently
discussed email capture and storage, from which interpretation and even
value judgments might flow. Surprise!



Warm regards, Linda.


On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Jeffrey A. Williams <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> wrote:

> All,
>
> Sorry to read of this.  What's next in the UK, toilet cams
> perhaps?  Or perhaps manditory implanted RFID tracking
> chips?
>
> God save the queen!  ( Poor woman )  >:(
>
> P.S. But I am sure Stalins soul is getting a reprieve by
> St. Peter...
>
> See:
>
>
> http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/UKgovernment/Parliament/DG_078075
>
> The Communications Data Bill (2008) will lead to the creation of
> a single, centralized database containing records of all e-mails sent,
> websites visited and mobile phones used by UK citizens. In
> a carnivore-on-steroids programme, as all vestiges of communication
> privacy are stripped away, The BBC reports that Home Secretary Jacqui
> Smith says  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7671046.stm this
> is a "necessity".
>
> Regards,
>
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>   Abraham Lincoln
>
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>



-- 
Dr. Linda D. Misek-Falkoff (Ph.D., J.D..)
Individual Email.

For i.d. only (update, to be embedded soon by LINKS)::
Communications Coordination Committee for the U.N.
Persons with Pain International.
National Disability Party, International Disability Alliance.
World Summit on Information Society, Internet Governance Forum, Computers
Freedom and Privacy -Onsite and Web participant; Human Rights working
groups..
Timeline Items, links to be provided:
1960's Innovator, Computers in Education, Text Processing and Analysis;
Automater, Thematic Apperception Test (T.A.T)., Creator, Context Concordance
to John Milton's Paradise Lost -  precursed Bible Concordances and related
computational theory and practice...
1970 ff first full time faculty member in liberal-arts based Computer
Science Studies; Vassar College; Computers in Education, Literature,
Psychology, Law, Medicine; generally.
1981 Co-Chair, Intl. Conference on Software Engineering and Software
Metrics...
1991 Research Asst.Prof. Blaine Sloan 'U.N. G.A. Resolutions in Our Changing
World'..
2000's Internet Law - Cyberlibel, Human Rights,social and values
impliacations..
2002 ff full participation, 'Convention on the Rights of Persons With
Disabilities.
2007 Nominee: Global Alliance for ICT Strategy Council.
Other Affiliations on Request
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From marzouki at ras.eu.org  Fri Oct 17 12:28:17 2008
From: marzouki at ras.eu.org (Meryem Marzouki)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 18:28:17 +0200
Subject: [governance] Program and Registration - 3rd GigaNet Annual
 Symposium on Internet Governance - Hyderabad (India) 2 December 2008
Message-ID: <9EBF3F32-8975-430C-BFE1-CA63E0F90A22@ras.eu.org>

Dear colleagues,

Please find hereafter and attached the Program and the registration  
form of the 3rd GigaNet Annual Symposium on Internet Governance, that  
will be held in Hyderabad, India, on 2 December 2008, the day prior  
to the UN Internet Governance Forum (IGF).

The GigaNet Annual Symposium is an opportunity to showcase some of  
the best current research on Internet Governance from around the  
world and provides a venue for scholars to discuss and debate these  
crucial issues.
The Global Internet Governance Academic Network (GigaNet) is an  
emerging scholarly community initiated in spring 2006. Its four  
principal objectives are to: (1) support the establishment of a  
global network of scholars specializing in Internet governance  
issues; (2) promote the development of Internet governance as a  
recognized, interdisciplinary field of study, (3) advance theoretical  
and applied research on Internet governance, broadly defined: and;  
(4) facilitate informed dialogue on policy issues and related matters  
between scholars and Internet governance stakeholders (governments,  
international organizations, the private sector, and civil society).

Previous GigaNet Symposia have been held in Athens, Greece, in 2006  
and Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, in 2007, in conjunction with the annual  
meetings of the UN IGF.

Attendance at the Symposium is free and open to all interested  
parties, but registration is required.
Please distribute widely. The URL of the Symposium is: http:// 
tinyurl.com/ynsuuf

Best regards,
Meryem Marzouki (2008 GigaNet Program Committee Chair)
::::::::::::::
Third Annual GigaNet Symposium
2 December 2008 - Hyderabad, India
Hyderabad International Conference Center (HICC)
Symposium Agenda - http://tinyurl.com/ynsuuf/


08:30-09:00 – Registration

9:00-9:30 – Opening Session

Welcoming Remarks by GigaNet Chair
          Nanette S. Levinson, American University, USA
Program Overview by Program Chair
          Meryem Marzouki, CNRS & Université Pierre et Marie Curie,  
France

9:30-11:15 - Session 1
Networked Global Governance and the Institutionalization of Internet  
Governance

Chair: Rolf H. Weber, University of Zürich, Switzerland

New Web Standards in the Making: Transnational Private Governance and  
Beyond
	François-Xavier Dudouet, CNRS & Université Paris-Dauphine, France
	Benjamin Nguyen, CNRS & Université Versailles Saint-Quentin, France
	Antoine Vion, Université de la Méditerranée, France
Co-Creating Processes in Global Governance: The Case of Internet  
Governance
	Nanette S. Levinson, American University, USA
More Substance than Process: Information Government’s Lessons for  
Internet Governance
	Viktor Mayer-Schönberger, Harvard University, USA
Structuring Online and Offline Discursive Spaces of Internet  
Governance: Insights from a Network Approach to Map an Emerging Field
	Elena Pavan, University of Trento, Italy
	Mario Diani, University of Trento, Italy
ICANN’s GAC and Global Governance of the Internet: The Role of the EU  
in Bringing Back ‘Government’ to Internet Governance
	Jamal Shahin, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Belgium & Ecole  
Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne, Switzerland
	Matthias Finger, Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne, Switzerland

11:15-11:45 Coffee Break and Poster Session

11:45-13:30 - Session 2
Global Internet Governance: the Diverse Instruments of a Complex  
Mechanism

Chair: MyungKoo Kang, Seoul National University, The Republic of Korea

The Humanization of Internet Governance: A Roadmap Towards a  
Comprehensive Global (Human) Rights Architecture for the Internet
	Wolfgang Benedek, University of Graz, Austria
	Matthias C. Kettemann, University of Graz, Austria
	Max Senges, Universitat Oberta de Catalunya, Spain & Stanford  
University, USA
Architecting Civil Liberties
	Laura DeNardis, Yale Law School, USA
Internet Governance and the Jurisdiction of States
	Joanna Kulesza, University of Lodz, Poland
Disrupting Global Governance: The Internet Whois Service, ICANN, and  
Privacy
	Milton Mueller, Syracuse University, USA & Delft University of  
Technology, The Netherlands
	Mawaki Chango, Syracuse University, USA
Internet Jurisdiction and Applicable Law in Latin-America
	Cristos Velasco San Martin, Universidad Carlos III de Madrid, Spain

13:30-14:30 Lunch break

14:30-16:30 - Session 3
Stakeholders or Social Actors? Power Dynamics in Internet Governance

Chair: Stephen McDowell, Florida State University, USA

‘Capacity Building’ through Learning in the Global Internet  
Governance Fora
	Slavka Antonova, Massey University, New Zealand
Engendering Internet Governance Research: The Example of Censorship
	Heike Jensen, Humboldt University, Germany
Two Kinds of Violence: Internet Governance and Internet Mob in  
Mainland China
	Zhang Zhuo, Wuhan University, China
	Wang Handong, Wuhan University, China
 From Athens to Hyderabad: Ontological Politics in the Internet  
Governance Forum
	Tarek Cheniti, Oxford University, United Kingdom
Social Actors on a Hot Tin Roof? Between the Traditional and the  
Avant-garde in  ‘Internet Governance’ Mobilization
	Marianne I. Franklin, Goldsmiths, University of London, United Kingdom
Who Dominates the Market First? Competition Between IDN ccTLDs and  
IDN gTLDs
	Y.J. Park, Delft University of Technology, The Netherlands

16:30-17:00 Coffee break and Poster Session

17:00-18:30 GigaNet Business Meeting

Poster Session
(authors will be available for discussion during coffee breaks)

Separated Together: The International Telecommunication Union and  
Civil Society
	Kristina Irion, Central European University, Hungary
Social Contract As Model For The Internet Community
	Rolf H. Weber, University of Zürich, Switzerland
Building Regional and Ethno-Linguistic Communities in the Infosphere:  
dot Asia and dot Cat
	Stephen D. McDowell, Florida State University, USA
	Philip E. Steinberg, Florida State University, USA
Is Self-Determination still Important? The Study on Laws of Personal  
Data and Agreements of ICT Companies in South Korea and Japan
	Min-Seong Park, Seoul National University, The Republic of Korea
	Myung-Koo Kang, Seoul National University, The Republic of Korea
Modifying the Data Stream: Deep Packet Inspection and Internet  
Censorship
	Ben Wagner, University of Granada, Spain & University of Munich,  
Germany
VoIP and the Net Neutrality Debate in Europe
	Durga V. Sivasubramanian, University of Strathclyde, United Kingdom
Toward a Humanistic Conception of Cyberspace. A Twofold Challenge for  
Netizens Mobilizing for a Democratic Internet Governance.
	Elena Pavan, University of Trento, Italy
	Max Senges, Universitat Oberta de Catalunya, Spain & Stanford  
University, USA
	Konstantinos Komaitis, University of Strathclyde, United Kingdom
Realizing the Global Promise of the Internet:  The Future of Internet  
Governance
	Constance Ledoux Book, Elon University, USA
	Janna Quitney Anderson, Elon University, USA
An Assessment of the UN Internet Governance Forum
	Olga Cavalli, Universidad de Buenos Aires, Argentina
The European Union Approach to Creative Content Online and its  
Relevance for IG: Issues, Framework, and Stakeholders Debate
	Luciano Morganti, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Belgium
	Leo Van Audenhove, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Belgium
	John Vanhoucke, Belgacom Telindus, Belgium


2008 GigaNet Symposium Program Committee

Ana Abreu, Universidade Estadual de Campinas & Universidade Federal  
de São Carlos, Brazil
Slavka Antonova, Massey University, New Zealand
Meryem Marzouki, CNRS & Université Pierre et Marie Curie, France (Chair)
John Mathiason, Syracuse University, USA
Milton Mueller, Syracuse University, USA & Delft University of  
Technology, The Netherlands
Max Senges, Universitat Oberta de Catalunya, Spain & Stanford  
University, USA
Rolf H. Weber, University of Zürich, Switzerland


2008 GigaNet Symposium Sponsors

The University Pierre et Marie Curie (UPMC), France
The Computer Sciences Laboratory of Paris 6 (LIP6), France
The Syracuse University Internet Governance Project (IGP), USA
The United Nations Internet Governance Forum (IGF)

GigaNet Symposium Registration Form and Practical Information

Attendance at the Symposium is free and open to all interested  
parties, but registration is required. The Symposium registration  
form, together with other practical information, are available at the  
Symposium website (http://tinyurl.com/ynsuuf/). Registration form  
must be filled in and sent back to: Meryem.Marzouki at lip6.fr,  
preferably before 15 November 2008.

VERY IMPORTANT NOTICE: The Symposium will be held at the UN Internet  
Governance Forum (IGF) Venue. For security reasons, only registered  
participants to the IGF will be allowed into the conference venue  
(this registration is also free of charge). IN ADDITION TO  
REGISTERING TO THE GIGANET SYMPOSIUM, YOU NEED TO ALSO REGISTER TO  
THE IGF AT: http://www.intgovforum.org.




____________________________________________________________
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--
Meryem Marzouki
LIP6/PolyTIC - CNRS
104 avenue du Président Kennedy - 75016 Paris
http://www-polytic.lip6.fr


From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Thu Oct 16 21:59:33 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:59:33 -0700
Subject: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored
References: <48F73252.7260E499@ix.netcom.com> <48F891DE.9040206@peter-dambier.de>
Message-ID: <48F7F184.D7C3C48A@ix.netcom.com>

Peter and all,

  My use of tolit cam was meant to be an extreme example
of how far it seems that invasion of privacy by the UK government
may be willing ot go.  I wasn't trying to be funny at all...

Peter Dambier wrote:

> I wont give the link here - but toilet cam...
> You cannot miss them as long as google is not censored.
>
> I used to be working for a computer company that got
> bankrupt - maybe because they watched the toilet cam
> all day long and did not have time to build computers.
>
> In the UK that database means everybody can read it
> not only in the UK
>
> Imagine Monty Python, King Phillip and the Prince of Wales
> they are all known for their peculiar sense of humor and
> now everybody can read their emails.
>
> kind regards
> Peter
>
> Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > Sorry to read of this.  What's next in the UK, toilet cams
> > perhaps?  Or perhaps manditory implanted RFID tracking
> > chips?
> >
> > God save the queen!  ( Poor woman )  >:(
> >
> > P.S. But I am sure Stalins soul is getting a reprieve by
> > St. Peter...
> >
> > See:
> >
> > http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/UKgovernment/Parliament/DG_078075
> >
> > The Communications Data Bill (2008) will lead to the creation of
> > a single, centralized database containing records of all e-mails sent,
> > websites visited and mobile phones used by UK citizens. In
> > a carnivore-on-steroids programme, as all vestiges of communication
> > privacy are stripped away, The BBC reports that Home Secretary Jacqui
> > Smith says  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7671046.stm this
> > is a "necessity".
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >    Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >
> > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > ===============================================================
> > Updated 1/26/04
> > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> --
> Peter and Karin Dambier
> Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
> Rimbacher Strasse 16
> D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
> +49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
> +49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
> mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
> http://www.peter-dambier.de/
> http://iason.site.voila.fr/
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Thu Oct 16 22:07:25 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:07:25 -0700
Subject: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored
References: <48F73252.7260E499@ix.netcom.com> <45ed74050810170915o24ef1021u8931494c50af74bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48F7F35C.F03C8D17@ix.netcom.com>

Linda and all,

  Make no mistake the UK LEA's will be storing whatever data
they intercept that they feel is relevant to whatever it may be
relevant to as well as whatever other data that has a particular
political use at some point later or even sooner.

  I am also sure that Scottland Yard will share this data that will
no doubt be stored selectively, with the USG as well.

linda misek-falkoff wrote:

> Dear Jeffrey, so goes it for the Messenger!
>
>
>
>
> The news is not always delightful, but blessed are those who share it
> and ignite discussion.  Thanks much for your attention to this.  And
> transporting the messages here.
>
>
>
> Many of us being in communications fields directly or indirectly, in
> fact perhaps All might be able to caucus productively on models of
> electronic info systems governance - express, or derivable.
>
>
>
>  In the present setting there seems (?) an underlying, at-least
> dualistic model of context versus (contrasting with) content.
>
>
>
> When one stores "setting" info, that is where and when and who
> transactions take place (contextual matters of space and time, actors
> id's etc). The reports seem to be alleging that this capture is not so
> intrusive (on a Rights-based or other dimension), only contextual,
> some might call it meta data - or use somehow related terms - what
> think U?
>
>
>
> Zo ... what I have read is that it is purported: that message content
> won't be stored.  If so, one still looks to context as content
> (usually).
>
>
>
> But these are musings.  It could be quite interesting to compare
> musings or "other" on models for what is happening or planned for the
> currently discussed email capture and storage, from which
> interpretation and even value judgments might flow. Surprise!
>
>
>
> Warm regards, Linda.
>
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Jeffrey A.
> Williams <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>      All,
>
>      Sorry to read of this.  What's next in the UK, toilet cams
>      perhaps?  Or perhaps manditory implanted RFID tracking
>      chips?
>
>      God save the queen!  ( Poor woman )  >:(
>
>      P.S. But I am sure Stalins soul is getting a reprieve by
>      St. Peter...
>
>      See:
>
>      http
>      //www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/UKgovernment/Parliament/DG_078075
>
>      The Communications Data Bill (2008) will lead to the
>      creation of
>      a single, centralized database containing records of all
>      e-mails sent,
>      websites visited and mobile phones used by UK citizens. In
>      a carnivore-on-steroids programme, as all vestiges of
>      communication
>      privacy are stripped away, The BBC reports that Home
>      Secretary Jacqui
>      Smith says
>      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7671046.stm this
>      is a "necessity".
>
>      Regards,
>
>      Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k
>      members/stakeholders strong!)
>      "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>        Abraham Lincoln
>
>      "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with
>      what is
>      very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>
>      "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the
>      burden, B;
>      liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied
>      by
>      P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
>      United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir.
>      1947]
>      =====
>      =========================================================
>      Updated 1/26/04
>      CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data
>      security IDNS.
>      div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
>      ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
>      jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
>      My Phone: 214-244-4827
>      ____________________________________________________________
>
>      You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>          governance at lists.cpsr.org
>      To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>          governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
>      For all list information and functions, see:
>          http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Linda D. Misek-Falkoff (Ph.D., J.D..)
> Individual Email.
>
> For i.d. only (update, to be embedded soon by LINKS)::
> Communications Coordination Committee for the U.N.
> Persons with Pain International.
> National Disability Party, International Disability Alliance.
> World Summit on Information Society, Internet Governance Forum,
> Computers Freedom and Privacy -Onsite and Web participant; Human
> Rights working groups..
> Timeline Items, links to be provided:
> 1960's Innovator, Computers in Education, Text Processing and
> Analysis; Automater, Thematic Apperception Test (T.A.T)., Creator,
> Context Concordance to John Milton's Paradise Lost -  precursed Bible
> Concordances and related computational theory and practice...
> 1970 ff first full time faculty member in liberal-arts based Computer
> Science Studies; Vassar College; Computers in Education, Literature,
> Psychology, Law, Medicine; generally.
> 1981 Co-Chair, Intl. Conference on Software Engineering and Software
> Metrics...
> 1991 Research Asst.Prof. Blaine Sloan 'U.N. G.A. Resolutions in Our
> Changing World'..
> 2000's Internet Law - Cyberlibel, Human Rights,social and values
> impliacations..
> 2002 ff full participation, 'Convention on the Rights of Persons With
> Disabilities.
> 2007 Nominee: Global Alliance for ICT Strategy Council.
> Other Affiliations on Request
>

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Fri Oct 17 04:14:53 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 01:14:53 -0700
Subject: [governance] Nation-Wide Internet Censorship Proposed For Australia
Message-ID: <48F8497D.CB7DF567@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  Now this is just wonderful!  < Sarcasm intended > >:(
Comming attractions to your country soon, as well?

See:
While Americans are currently fighting the net-neutrality wars, spare
a thought for the poor Australians  The Australian government wants
to implement a
http://www.infoworld.com/news/feeds/08/10/13/No-opt-out-of-filtered-Internet.html?source=gs
nation-wide 'filtering' scheme to keep everyone safe from the nasties on
the internet, with no way of opting out: 'Under the government's $125.8
million Plan for Cyber-Safety, users can switch between two blacklists
which block content inappropriate for children, and a separate list
which blocks illegal material. ... According to preliminary trials, the 
best Internet content filters would incorrectly block about 10,000 Web 
pages from one million.

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
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From peter at peter-dambier.de  Sat Oct 18 06:02:27 2008
From: peter at peter-dambier.de (Peter Dambier)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:02:27 +0200
Subject: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored
In-Reply-To: <48F7F184.D7C3C48A@ix.netcom.com>
References: <48F73252.7260E499@ix.netcom.com> <48F891DE.9040206@peter-dambier.de> <48F7F184.D7C3C48A@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <48F9B433.8090303@peter-dambier.de>

Sorry if I was looking funny.

I literally meant everybody's emails will be visible for
everybody. That is how british privacy has shown to work.

The "toilet cam" is reality in the UK. They are everywhere
and they are shown in the public tv. There have been
divorces because women have seen their husbands in the tv
meeting another women. They could not but divorce because
their neighbours have seen it too.

British government is selling used disks with sensitive
data of all their people including military personal.

The leaks in the UK are institutional.

The UK is a monarchy. King Philip cannot sing a song in the
bathtub without some servant listening and telling it the
sun newspaper so all the brits can read it next day.

Of course they feel this natural and they don't understand
why people from a republic might think different.

Mostly the same goes for Australia. They used to be a jail
island for the brits and they still are. Every email send by
an inmate is read same as every email received. Their internet
is censored and they cannot opt out. Guess where the chinese
are testing all their hardware.

Of course you know about the banks crisis that might put
capitalism to its end. But did you know it started when the
german secrect service leaked information about swiss and
liechtentein banks. You can read in wikileaks or wikipedia
how the german service has given money to siemens to buy into
crypto ag, the company that does the encryption for all the
banks all over the world.

Every information leaked that was not meant for the public has
hindered bank business and now the banks have stopped working.

Cordialement
Peter

Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> Peter and all,
> 
>   My use of tolit cam was meant to be an extreme example
> of how far it seems that invasion of privacy by the UK government
> may be willing ot go.  I wasn't trying to be funny at all...
> 
> Peter Dambier wrote:
> 
>> I wont give the link here - but toilet cam...
>> You cannot miss them as long as google is not censored.
>>
>> I used to be working for a computer company that got
>> bankrupt - maybe because they watched the toilet cam
>> all day long and did not have time to build computers.
>>
>> In the UK that database means everybody can read it
>> not only in the UK
>>
>> Imagine Monty Python, King Phillip and the Prince of Wales
>> they are all known for their peculiar sense of humor and
>> now everybody can read their emails.
>>
>> kind regards
>> Peter
>>
>> Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Sorry to read of this.  What's next in the UK, toilet cams
>>> perhaps?  Or perhaps manditory implanted RFID tracking
>>> chips?
>>>
>>> God save the queen!  ( Poor woman )  >:(
>>>
>>> P.S. But I am sure Stalins soul is getting a reprieve by
>>> St. Peter...
>>>
>>> See:
>>>
>>> http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/UKgovernment/Parliament/DG_078075
>>>
>>> The Communications Data Bill (2008) will lead to the creation of
>>> a single, centralized database containing records of all e-mails sent,
>>> websites visited and mobile phones used by UK citizens. In
>>> a carnivore-on-steroids programme, as all vestiges of communication
>>> privacy are stripped away, The BBC reports that Home Secretary Jacqui
>>> Smith says  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7671046.stm this
>>> is a "necessity".
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
>>> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>>>    Abraham Lincoln
>>>
>>> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
>>> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>>>
>>> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
>>> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
>>> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
>>> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
>>> ===============================================================
>>> Updated 1/26/04
>>> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
>>> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
>>> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
>>> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
>>> My Phone: 214-244-4827
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>
>>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> --
>> Peter and Karin Dambier
>> Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
>> Rimbacher Strasse 16
>> D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
>> +49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
>> +49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
>> mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
>> http://www.peter-dambier.de/
>> http://iason.site.voila.fr/
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>    Abraham Lincoln
> 
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> 
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

-- 
Peter and Karin Dambier
Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
Rimbacher Strasse 16
D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
+49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
+49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
http://www.peter-dambier.de/
http://iason.site.voila.fr/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au  Sat Oct 18 06:15:09 2008
From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 03:15:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored
Message-ID: <22859.46207.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

What utter crap Peter. Maybe you should do a modicum of research before you make such dumb, stupid and idiotic comments.





----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Dambier <peter at peter-dambier.de>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Sent: Saturday, 18 October, 2008 9:02:27 PM
Subject: Re: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored

Sorry if I was looking funny.

I literally meant everybody's emails will be visible for
everybody. That is how british privacy has shown to work.

The "toilet cam" is reality in the UK. They are everywhere
and they are shown in the public tv. There have been
divorces because women have seen their husbands in the tv
meeting another women. They could not but divorce because
their neighbours have seen it too.

British government is selling used disks with sensitive
data of all their people including military personal.

The leaks in the UK are institutional.

The UK is a monarchy. King Philip cannot sing a song in the
bathtub without some servant listening and telling it the
sun newspaper so all the brits can read it next day.

Of course they feel this natural and they don't understand
why people from a republic might think different.

Mostly the same goes for Australia. They used to be a jail
island for the brits and they still are. Every email send by
an inmate is read same as every email received. Their internet
is censored and they cannot opt out. Guess where the chinese
are testing all their hardware.

Of course you know about the banks crisis that might put
capitalism to its end. But did you know it started when the
german secrect service leaked information about swiss and
liechtentein banks. You can read in wikileaks or wikipedia
how the german service has given money to siemens to buy into
crypto ag, the company that does the encryption for all the
banks all over the world.

Every information leaked that was not meant for the public has
hindered bank business and now the banks have stopped working.

Cordialement
Peter

Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> Peter and all,
> 
>   My use of tolit cam was meant to be an extreme example
> of how far it seems that invasion of privacy by the UK government
> may be willing ot go.  I wasn't trying to be funny at all...
> 
> Peter Dambier wrote:
> 
>> I wont give the link here - but toilet cam...
>> You cannot miss them as long as google is not censored.
>>
>> I used to be working for a computer company that got
>> bankrupt - maybe because they watched the toilet cam
>> all day long and did not have time to build computers.
>>
>> In the UK that database means everybody can read it
>> not only in the UK
>>
>> Imagine Monty Python, King Phillip and the Prince of Wales
>> they are all known for their peculiar sense of humor and
>> now everybody can read their emails.
>>
>> kind regards
>> Peter
>>
>> Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Sorry to read of this.  What's next in the UK, toilet cams
>>> perhaps?  Or perhaps manditory implanted RFID tracking
>>> chips?
>>>
>>> God save the queen!  ( Poor woman )  >:(
>>>
>>> P.S. But I am sure Stalins soul is getting a reprieve by
>>> St. Peter...
>>>
>>> See:
>>>
>>> http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/UKgovernment/Parliament/DG_078075
>>>
>>> The Communications Data Bill (2008) will lead to the creation of
>>> a single, centralized database containing records of all e-mails sent,
>>> websites visited and mobile phones used by UK citizens. In
>>> a carnivore-on-steroids programme, as all vestiges of communication
>>> privacy are stripped away, The BBC reports that Home Secretary Jacqui
>>> Smith says  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7671046.stm this
>>> is a "necessity".
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
>>> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>>>    Abraham Lincoln
>>>
>>> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
>>> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>>>
>>> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
>>> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
>>> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
>>> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
>>> ===============================================================
>>> Updated 1/26/04
>>> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
>>> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
>>> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
>>> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
>>> My Phone: 214-244-4827
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>
>>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> --
>> Peter and Karin Dambier
>> Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
>> Rimbacher Strasse 16
>> D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
>> +49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
>> +49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
>> mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
>> http://www.peter-dambier.de/
>> http://iason.site.voila.fr/
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>    Abraham Lincoln
> 
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> 
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

-- 
Peter and Karin Dambier
Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
Rimbacher Strasse 16
D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
+49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
+49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
http://www.peter-dambier.de/
http://iason.site.voila.fr/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
____________________________________________________________
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From correia.rui at gmail.com  Sat Oct 18 06:47:13 2008
From: correia.rui at gmail.com (Rui Correia)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:47:13 +0200
Subject: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored
In-Reply-To: <22859.46207.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <22859.46207.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ec8caada0810180347l506337cap1d559b53f9cdb53f@mail.gmail.com>

David

I think you saved a few hundred people the agony of fighting to be nice so
as not to say what you just said.

Boy! What next: the double-decker red buses must also have to do with being
a monarchy. In republics, they don't have single deck buses.

And who is King Philip? Would it be King Philip of Spain? He died in 1665 -
I was not aware that he had a problem with servants listening in on his
singing.

Rui



On 18/10/2008, David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> What utter crap Peter. Maybe you should do a modicum of research before you
> make such dumb, stupid and idiotic comments.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Peter Dambier <peter at peter-dambier.de>
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Sent: Saturday, 18 October, 2008 9:02:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored
>
> Sorry if I was looking funny.
>
> I literally meant everybody's emails will be visible for
> everybody. That is how british privacy has shown to work.
>
> The "toilet cam" is reality in the UK. They are everywhere
> and they are shown in the public tv. There have been
> divorces because women have seen their husbands in the tv
> meeting another women. They could not but divorce because
> their neighbours have seen it too.
>
> British government is selling used disks with sensitive
> data of all their people including military personal.
>
> The leaks in the UK are institutional.
>
> The UK is a monarchy. King Philip cannot sing a song in the
> bathtub without some servant listening and telling it the
> sun newspaper so all the brits can read it next day.
>
> Of course they feel this natural and they don't understand
> why people from a republic might think different.
>
> Mostly the same goes for Australia. They used to be a jail
> island for the brits and they still are. Every email send by
> an inmate is read same as every email received. Their internet
> is censored and they cannot opt out. Guess where the chinese
> are testing all their hardware.
>
> Of course you know about the banks crisis that might put
> capitalism to its end. But did you know it started when the
> german secrect service leaked information about swiss and
> liechtentein banks. You can read in wikileaks or wikipedia
> how the german service has given money to siemens to buy into
> crypto ag, the company that does the encryption for all the
> banks all over the world.
>
> Every information leaked that was not meant for the public has
> hindered bank business and now the banks have stopped working.
>
> Cordialement
> Peter
>
> Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> > Peter and all,
> >
> >   My use of tolit cam was meant to be an extreme example
> > of how far it seems that invasion of privacy by the UK government
> > may be willing ot go.  I wasn't trying to be funny at all...
> >
> > Peter Dambier wrote:
> >
> >> I wont give the link here - but toilet cam...
> >> You cannot miss them as long as google is not censored.
> >>
> >> I used to be working for a computer company that got
> >> bankrupt - maybe because they watched the toilet cam
> >> all day long and did not have time to build computers.
> >>
> >> In the UK that database means everybody can read it
> >> not only in the UK
> >>
> >> Imagine Monty Python, King Phillip and the Prince of Wales
> >> they are all known for their peculiar sense of humor and
> >> now everybody can read their emails.
> >>
> >> kind regards
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> >>> All,
> >>>
> >>> Sorry to read of this.  What's next in the UK, toilet cams
> >>> perhaps?  Or perhaps manditory implanted RFID tracking
> >>> chips?
> >>>
> >>> God save the queen!  ( Poor woman )  >:(
> >>>
> >>> P.S. But I am sure Stalins soul is getting a reprieve by
> >>> St. Peter...
> >>>
> >>> See:
> >>>
> >>>
> http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/UKgovernment/Parliament/DG_078075
> >>>
> >>> The Communications Data Bill (2008) will lead to the creation of
> >>> a single, centralized database containing records of all e-mails sent,
> >>> websites visited and mobile phones used by UK citizens. In
> >>> a carnivore-on-steroids programme, as all vestiges of communication
> >>> privacy are stripped away, The BBC reports that Home Secretary Jacqui
> >>> Smith says  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7671046.stm this
> >>> is a "necessity".
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> >>> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >>>    Abraham Lincoln
> >>>
> >>> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> >>> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >>>
> >>> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> >>> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> >>> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> >>> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> >>> ===============================================================
> >>> Updated 1/26/04
> >>> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> >>> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> >>> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> >>> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> >>> My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >>> ____________________________________________________________
> >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>>
> >>> For all list information and functions, see:
> >>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >> --
> >> Peter and Karin Dambier
> >> Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
> >> Rimbacher Strasse 16
> >> D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
> >> +49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
> >> +49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
> >> mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
> >> http://www.peter-dambier.de/
> >> http://iason.site.voila.fr/
> >> https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>
> >> For all list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >    Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >
> > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > ===============================================================
> > Updated 1/26/04
> > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> --
> Peter and Karin Dambier
> Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
> Rimbacher Strasse 16
> D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
> +49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
> +49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
> mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
> http://www.peter-dambier.de/
> http://iason.site.voila.fr/
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>



-- 
________________________________________________


Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant
2 Cutten St
Horison
Roodepoort-Johannesburg,
South Africa
Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336
Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838
_______________
áâãçéêíóôõúç
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From peter at peter-dambier.de  Sat Oct 18 10:37:33 2008
From: peter at peter-dambier.de (Peter Dambier)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:37:33 +0200
Subject: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored
In-Reply-To: <ec8caada0810180347l506337cap1d559b53f9cdb53f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22859.46207.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <ec8caada0810180347l506337cap1d559b53f9cdb53f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48F9F4AD.6060002@peter-dambier.de>

ok, one last reply for today.

I thought the husband of Elizabeth II (Elizabeth Alexandra Mary,born 21 April 1926)
was more well known than he is in germany for his sometimes peculiar comments.

He is not king, he is Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.

Forgive me, I am living in a republic not too much fluent in monarchies.


In germany the UK is in the news for more than a year now because of their
weekly data leaks:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Yet-Another-Data-Leak-from-the-UK-Ministry-of-Defense-94403.shtml

http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,22803496-15306,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/nov/06/reuters.pressandpublishing

http://www.computing.co.uk/computing/news/2212010/mps-raise-fears-protection

http://www.money.co.uk/article/1001246-data-leak-reported-by-ebay-customer.htm

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/32280

http://news.antispyware.com/?p=58

http://www.webactivemagazine.co.uk/computing/news/2220558/hmrc-blunder-leads-further-4102301

http://www.securecomputing.net.au/News/110931,uks-dwp-admits-pension-details-leak.aspx

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/22/world/europe/22data.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

If that is not enough then google is your friend.

I am sure when they do start monitoring, google will find all those emails.

Forget all about UK and leaks. It is purely incidental and it has nothing to
do with them sticking their nose everywhere.


And about Crypto AG and the avalanche that brings banking down:

http://mediafilter.org/caq/cryptogate/

http://jya.com/cryptoa2.htm

http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?menu=A11100&no=381337&rel_no=1&back_url=

http://dev.null.org/blog/tags/crypto%20ag

http://farshores.org/sc07nsa2.htm

http://onlinejournal.org/Special_Reports/092105Madsen/092105madsen.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBS_AG

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5394214&page=1

http://www.efinancialnews.com/homepage/content/2451816684

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/12/business/12ubsfw.php

http://www.panamalaw.org/UBS_closing_accounts_of_americans.html


They dont trust me. Why should I trust them?

That is what brought the banks down and looks like it will
bring our civilisation down.

Peter


Rui Correia wrote:
> David
> 
> I think you saved a few hundred people the agony of fighting to be nice
> so as not to say what you just said.
> 
> Boy! What next: the double-decker red buses must also have to do with
> being a monarchy. In republics, they don't have single deck buses.
> 
> And who is King Philip? Would it be King Philip of Spain? He died in
> 1665 - I was not aware that he had a problem with servants listening in
> on his singing.
> 
> Rui
> 
> 
> 
> On 18/10/2008, *David Goldstein* <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au
> <mailto:goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>> wrote:
> 
>     What utter crap Peter. Maybe you should do a modicum of research
>     before you make such dumb, stupid and idiotic comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     ----- Original Message ----
>     From: Peter Dambier <peter at peter-dambier.de
>     <mailto:peter at peter-dambier.de>>
>     To: governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>     Sent: Saturday, 18 October, 2008 9:02:27 PM
>     Subject: Re: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored
> 
>     Sorry if I was looking funny.
> 
>     I literally meant everybody's emails will be visible for
>     everybody. That is how british privacy has shown to work.
> 
>     The "toilet cam" is reality in the UK. They are everywhere
>     and they are shown in the public tv. There have been
>     divorces because women have seen their husbands in the tv
>     meeting another women. They could not but divorce because
>     their neighbours have seen it too.
> 
>     British government is selling used disks with sensitive
>     data of all their people including military personal.
> 
>     The leaks in the UK are institutional.
> 
>     The UK is a monarchy. King Philip cannot sing a song in the
>     bathtub without some servant listening and telling it the
>     sun newspaper so all the brits can read it next day.
> 
>     Of course they feel this natural and they don't understand
>     why people from a republic might think different.
> 
>     Mostly the same goes for Australia. They used to be a jail
>     island for the brits and they still are. Every email send by
>     an inmate is read same as every email received. Their internet
>     is censored and they cannot opt out. Guess where the chinese
>     are testing all their hardware.
> 
>     Of course you know about the banks crisis that might put
>     capitalism to its end. But did you know it started when the
>     german secrect service leaked information about swiss and
>     liechtentein banks. You can read in wikileaks or wikipedia
>     how the german service has given money to siemens to buy into
>     crypto ag, the company that does the encryption for all the
>     banks all over the world.
> 
>     Every information leaked that was not meant for the public has
>     hindered bank business and now the banks have stopped working.
> 
>     Cordialement
>     Peter
> 
>     Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
>     > Peter and all,
>     >
>     >   My use of tolit cam was meant to be an extreme example
>     > of how far it seems that invasion of privacy by the UK government
>     > may be willing ot go.  I wasn't trying to be funny at all...
>     >
>     > Peter Dambier wrote:
>     >
>     >> I wont give the link here - but toilet cam...
>     >> You cannot miss them as long as google is not censored.
>     >>
>     >> I used to be working for a computer company that got
>     >> bankrupt - maybe because they watched the toilet cam
>     >> all day long and did not have time to build computers.
>     >>
>     >> In the UK that database means everybody can read it
>     >> not only in the UK
>     >>
>     >> Imagine Monty Python, King Phillip and the Prince of Wales
>     >> they are all known for their peculiar sense of humor and
>     >> now everybody can read their emails.
>     >>
>     >> kind regards
>     >> Peter
>     >>
>     >> Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
>     >>> All,
>     >>>
>     >>> Sorry to read of this.  What's next in the UK, toilet cams
>     >>> perhaps?  Or perhaps manditory implanted RFID tracking
>     >>> chips?
>     >>>
>     >>> God save the queen!  ( Poor woman )  >:(
>     >>>
>     >>> P.S. But I am sure Stalins soul is getting a reprieve by
>     >>> St. Peter...
>     >>>
>     >>> See:
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/UKgovernment/Parliament/DG_078075
>     >>>
>     >>> The Communications Data Bill (2008) will lead to the creation of
>     >>> a single, centralized database containing records of all e-mails
>     sent,
>     >>> websites visited and mobile phones used by UK citizens. In
>     >>> a carnivore-on-steroids programme, as all vestiges of communication
>     >>> privacy are stripped away, The BBC reports that Home Secretary
>     Jacqui
>     >>> Smith says  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7671046.stm this
>     >>> is a "necessity".
>     >>>
>     >>> Regards,
>     >>>
>     >>> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders
>     strong!)
>     >>> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>     >>>    Abraham Lincoln
>     >>>
>     >>> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
>     >>> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>     >>>
>     >>> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
>     >>> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
>     >>> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
>     >>> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
>     >>> ===============================================================
>     >>> Updated 1/26/04
>     >>> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
>     >>> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
>     >>> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
>     >>> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com <mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com>
>     >>> My Phone: 214-244-4827
>     >>> ____________________________________________________________
>     >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     >>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>     >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     >>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>     <mailto:governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org>
>     >>>
>     >>> For all list information and functions, see:
>     >>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>     >> --
>     >> Peter and Karin Dambier
>     >> Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
>     >> Rimbacher Strasse 16
>     >> D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
>     >> +49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
>     >> +49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de <http://sipgate.de>)
>     >> mail: peter at peter-dambier.de <mailto:peter at peter-dambier.de>
>     >> http://www.peter-dambier.de/
>     >> http://iason.site.voila.fr/
>     >> https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
>     >> ____________________________________________________________
>     >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>     >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>     <mailto:governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org>
>     >>
>     >> For all list information and functions, see:
>     >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>     >
>     > Regards,
>     >
>     > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
>     > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>     >    Abraham Lincoln
>     >
>     > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
>     > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>     >
>     > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
>     > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
>     > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
>     > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
>     > ===============================================================
>     > Updated 1/26/04
>     > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
>     > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
>     > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
>     > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com <mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com>
>     > My Phone: 214-244-4827
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > ____________________________________________________________
>     > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     >      governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>     > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>     <mailto:governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org>
>     >
>     > For all list information and functions, see:
>     >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
>     --
>     Peter and Karin Dambier
>     Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
>     Rimbacher Strasse 16
>     D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
>     +49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
>     +49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de <http://sipgate.de>)
>     mail: peter at peter-dambier.de <mailto:peter at peter-dambier.de>
>     http://www.peter-dambier.de/
>     http://iason.site.voila.fr/
>     https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
>     ____________________________________________________________
>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>         governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>     To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>         governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>     <mailto:governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org>
> 
>     For all list information and functions, see:
>         http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> 
> 
>     Send instant messages to your online friends
>     http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
> 
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>     For all list information and functions, see:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ________________________________________________
> 
> 
> Rui Correia
> Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant
> 2 Cutten St
> Horison
> Roodepoort-Johannesburg,
> South Africa
> Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336
> Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838
> _______________
> áâãçéêíóôõúç
> 

-- 
Peter and Karin Dambier
Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
Rimbacher Strasse 16
D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
+49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
+49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
http://www.peter-dambier.de/
http://iason.site.voila.fr/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
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From gurstein at gmail.com  Sat Oct 18 12:07:48 2008
From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:07:48 +0200
Subject: [governance] FW: [NA-Discuss] New Brunswick,Canada Human Rights
 and High Speed Broadband
Message-ID: <D8582BA5EC214FBEB9252C2AB3E56835@userPC>

-----Original Message-----
From: na-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
[mailto:na-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Glenn
McKnight
Sent: October-18-08 3:45 PM
To: na-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
Subject: [NA-Discuss] New Brunswick,Canada Human Rights and High Speed
Broadband

A Human Rights  complaint has been lodged by a Conservative candidate Jack
Carr from New Brunswick, Canada  that  high speed is a basic human right.

Details on Article

http://dailygleaner.canadaeast.com/cityregion/article/451420

Quote

He cited the portion of the province's human rights law that denies
discrimination because of a person's place of origin. He said people who
live in rural areas are being discriminated against and it puts rural areas
at a competitive disadvantage.


Glenn


-- 
Glenn McKnight
868 Corbetts Road
Oshawa, Ontario L1K 2E1
905-434-66555
mcknight.glenn at gmail.com
------
NA-Discuss mailing list
NA-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.ica
nn.org

Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org
------

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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Sat Oct 18 15:12:53 2008
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 06:12:53 +1100
Subject: [governance] Netiquete Reminder
Message-ID: <0DAAC7D7B60C4604A92084F8C9A475E2@IAN>

 

 

This is just a periodic reminder as regards netiquette on this list. I
intend to post something similar from time to time as a reminder to myself
as much as to anyone else.

 

Our charter provides a few minimal netiquette guidelines. These include

 

"Be conservative in what you send and liberal in what you receive. You
should not send heated messages (flames) even if you are provoked. On the
other hand, you shouldn't be surprised if you get flamed and it's prudent
not to respond to flames."

 

It's part of the nature of email that messages can be easily misunderstood,
which means we have to be even more careful in our choice of words than we
might in ordinary face to conversation. If there is a simple rule we can
apply when we are dealing with issues we feel passionately about, it would
be to concentrate on the issues, not on the person. Be hard on the issues,
soft on the person. And we don't need to respond to insults and inflame the
situation - most people on this list know a personal insult when they see
one, and the insult says a lot more about the person making the insult than
it does the intended targets. No point in highlighting it. Some things are
best let pass.

 

The Charter also outlines some specific measures the co-ordinators may take
in response to personal insults, spam, or other deliberate disruptions.
These include suspensions from the list. I would hope never to need to
activate a suspension, but it is important that we keep on mission here.

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Ian Peter

 

Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1602 - Release Date: 8/9/2008
1:22 PM


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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Fri Oct 17 20:24:27 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 17:24:27 -0700
Subject: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored
References: <22859.46207.qm@web54107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <ec8caada0810180347l506337cap1d559b53f9cdb53f@mail.gmail.com> <48F9F4AD.6060002@peter-dambier.de>
Message-ID: <48F92CBA.CCD89311@ix.netcom.com>

Peter and all,

  Excellent refrences/supporting links.  And as far as I am concerned,
your forgiven in respect to the monarchical missives vis a vi the UK.

  I would take one other small exception. Your analysis of the banking
debacle is yet not completely known, but is surely at least based
in trust, or lack there of.  When major banks don't trust other
major banks and therefor loans are not made accordingly, the
system comes to a screeching halt or at a minimum is severely
constrained, and the rest of the public and private sector is to
one degree or another, significantly restricted in any and all of
it's ongoing and future endeavors accordingly.

Peter Dambier wrote:

> ok, one last reply for today.
>
> I thought the husband of Elizabeth II (Elizabeth Alexandra Mary,born 21 April 1926)
> was more well known than he is in germany for his sometimes peculiar comments.
>
> He is not king, he is Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.
>
> Forgive me, I am living in a republic not too much fluent in monarchies.
>
> In germany the UK is in the news for more than a year now because of their
> weekly data leaks:
>
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Yet-Another-Data-Leak-from-the-UK-Ministry-of-Defense-94403.shtml
>
> http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,22803496-15306,00.html
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/nov/06/reuters.pressandpublishing
>
> http://www.computing.co.uk/computing/news/2212010/mps-raise-fears-protection
>
> http://www.money.co.uk/article/1001246-data-leak-reported-by-ebay-customer.htm
>
> http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/32280
>
> http://news.antispyware.com/?p=58
>
> http://www.webactivemagazine.co.uk/computing/news/2220558/hmrc-blunder-leads-further-4102301
>
> http://www.securecomputing.net.au/News/110931,uks-dwp-admits-pension-details-leak.aspx
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/22/world/europe/22data.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
>
> If that is not enough then google is your friend.
>
> I am sure when they do start monitoring, google will find all those emails.
>
> Forget all about UK and leaks. It is purely incidental and it has nothing to
> do with them sticking their nose everywhere.
>
> And about Crypto AG and the avalanche that brings banking down:
>
> http://mediafilter.org/caq/cryptogate/
>
> http://jya.com/cryptoa2.htm
>
> http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?menu=A11100&no=381337&rel_no=1&back_url=
>
> http://dev.null.org/blog/tags/crypto%20ag
>
> http://farshores.org/sc07nsa2.htm
>
> http://onlinejournal.org/Special_Reports/092105Madsen/092105madsen.html
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBS_AG
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5394214&page=1
>
> http://www.efinancialnews.com/homepage/content/2451816684
>
> http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/12/business/12ubsfw.php
>
> http://www.panamalaw.org/UBS_closing_accounts_of_americans.html
>
> They dont trust me. Why should I trust them?
>
> That is what brought the banks down and looks like it will
> bring our civilisation down.
>
> Peter
>
> Rui Correia wrote:
> > David
> >
> > I think you saved a few hundred people the agony of fighting to be nice
> > so as not to say what you just said.
> >
> > Boy! What next: the double-decker red buses must also have to do with
> > being a monarchy. In republics, they don't have single deck buses.
> >
> > And who is King Philip? Would it be King Philip of Spain? He died in
> > 1665 - I was not aware that he had a problem with servants listening in
> > on his singing.
> >
> > Rui
> >
> >
> >
> > On 18/10/2008, *David Goldstein* <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au
> > <mailto:goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>> wrote:
> >
> >     What utter crap Peter. Maybe you should do a modicum of research
> >     before you make such dumb, stupid and idiotic comments.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     ----- Original Message ----
> >     From: Peter Dambier <peter at peter-dambier.de
> >     <mailto:peter at peter-dambier.de>>
> >     To: governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
> >     Sent: Saturday, 18 October, 2008 9:02:27 PM
> >     Subject: Re: [governance] Every Email In UK To Be Monitored
> >
> >     Sorry if I was looking funny.
> >
> >     I literally meant everybody's emails will be visible for
> >     everybody. That is how british privacy has shown to work.
> >
> >     The "toilet cam" is reality in the UK. They are everywhere
> >     and they are shown in the public tv. There have been
> >     divorces because women have seen their husbands in the tv
> >     meeting another women. They could not but divorce because
> >     their neighbours have seen it too.
> >
> >     British government is selling used disks with sensitive
> >     data of all their people including military personal.
> >
> >     The leaks in the UK are institutional.
> >
> >     The UK is a monarchy. King Philip cannot sing a song in the
> >     bathtub without some servant listening and telling it the
> >     sun newspaper so all the brits can read it next day.
> >
> >     Of course they feel this natural and they don't understand
> >     why people from a republic might think different.
> >
> >     Mostly the same goes for Australia. They used to be a jail
> >     island for the brits and they still are. Every email send by
> >     an inmate is read same as every email received. Their internet
> >     is censored and they cannot opt out. Guess where the chinese
> >     are testing all their hardware.
> >
> >     Of course you know about the banks crisis that might put
> >     capitalism to its end. But did you know it started when the
> >     german secrect service leaked information about swiss and
> >     liechtentein banks. You can read in wikileaks or wikipedia
> >     how the german service has given money to siemens to buy into
> >     crypto ag, the company that does the encryption for all the
> >     banks all over the world.
> >
> >     Every information leaked that was not meant for the public has
> >     hindered bank business and now the banks have stopped working.
> >
> >     Cordialement
> >     Peter
> >
> >     Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> >     > Peter and all,
> >     >
> >     >   My use of tolit cam was meant to be an extreme example
> >     > of how far it seems that invasion of privacy by the UK government
> >     > may be willing ot go.  I wasn't trying to be funny at all...
> >     >
> >     > Peter Dambier wrote:
> >     >
> >     >> I wont give the link here - but toilet cam...
> >     >> You cannot miss them as long as google is not censored.
> >     >>
> >     >> I used to be working for a computer company that got
> >     >> bankrupt - maybe because they watched the toilet cam
> >     >> all day long and did not have time to build computers.
> >     >>
> >     >> In the UK that database means everybody can read it
> >     >> not only in the UK
> >     >>
> >     >> Imagine Monty Python, King Phillip and the Prince of Wales
> >     >> they are all known for their peculiar sense of humor and
> >     >> now everybody can read their emails.
> >     >>
> >     >> kind regards
> >     >> Peter
> >     >>
> >     >> Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> >     >>> All,
> >     >>>
> >     >>> Sorry to read of this.  What's next in the UK, toilet cams
> >     >>> perhaps?  Or perhaps manditory implanted RFID tracking
> >     >>> chips?
> >     >>>
> >     >>> God save the queen!  ( Poor woman )  >:(
> >     >>>
> >     >>> P.S. But I am sure Stalins soul is getting a reprieve by
> >     >>> St. Peter...
> >     >>>
> >     >>> See:
> >     >>>
> >     >>>
> >     http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/UKgovernment/Parliament/DG_078075
> >     >>>
> >     >>> The Communications Data Bill (2008) will lead to the creation of
> >     >>> a single, centralized database containing records of all e-mails
> >     sent,
> >     >>> websites visited and mobile phones used by UK citizens. In
> >     >>> a carnivore-on-steroids programme, as all vestiges of communication
> >     >>> privacy are stripped away, The BBC reports that Home Secretary
> >     Jacqui
> >     >>> Smith says  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7671046.stm this
> >     >>> is a "necessity".
> >     >>>
> >     >>> Regards,
> >     >>>
> >     >>> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders
> >     strong!)
> >     >>> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >     >>>    Abraham Lincoln
> >     >>>
> >     >>> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> >     >>> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >     >>>
> >     >>> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> >     >>> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> >     >>> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> >     >>> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> >     >>> ===============================================================
> >     >>> Updated 1/26/04
> >     >>> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> >     >>> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> >     >>> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> >     >>> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com <mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com>
> >     >>> My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >     >>> ____________________________________________________________
> >     >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     >>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
> >     >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >     >>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >     <mailto:governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org>
> >     >>>
> >     >>> For all list information and functions, see:
> >     >>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >     >> --
> >     >> Peter and Karin Dambier
> >     >> Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
> >     >> Rimbacher Strasse 16
> >     >> D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
> >     >> +49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
> >     >> +49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de <http://sipgate.de>)
> >     >> mail: peter at peter-dambier.de <mailto:peter at peter-dambier.de>
> >     >> http://www.peter-dambier.de/
> >     >> http://iason.site.voila.fr/
> >     >> https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
> >     >> ____________________________________________________________
> >     >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
> >     >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >     >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >     <mailto:governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org>
> >     >>
> >     >> For all list information and functions, see:
> >     >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >     >
> >     > Regards,
> >     >
> >     > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> >     > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >     >    Abraham Lincoln
> >     >
> >     > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> >     > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >     >
> >     > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> >     > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> >     > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> >     > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> >     > ===============================================================
> >     > Updated 1/26/04
> >     > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> >     > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> >     > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> >     > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com <mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com>
> >     > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > ____________________________________________________________
> >     > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     >      governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
> >     > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >     >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >     <mailto:governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org>
> >     >
> >     > For all list information and functions, see:
> >     >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> >     --
> >     Peter and Karin Dambier
> >     Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
> >     Rimbacher Strasse 16
> >     D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
> >     +49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
> >     +49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de <http://sipgate.de>)
> >     mail: peter at peter-dambier.de <mailto:peter at peter-dambier.de>
> >     http://www.peter-dambier.de/
> >     http://iason.site.voila.fr/
> >     https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
> >     ____________________________________________________________
> >     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >         governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
> >     To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >         governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >     <mailto:governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org>
> >
> >     For all list information and functions, see:
> >         http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> >
> >
> >     Send instant messages to your online friends
> >     http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
> >
> >     ____________________________________________________________
> >     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >          governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
> >     To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >          governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >     <mailto:governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org>
> >
> >     For all list information and functions, see:
> >          http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ________________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Rui Correia
> > Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant
> > 2 Cutten St
> > Horison
> > Roodepoort-Johannesburg,
> > South Africa
> > Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336
> > Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838
> > _______________
> > ������������
> >
>
> --
> Peter and Karin Dambier
> Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
> Rimbacher Strasse 16
> D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
> +49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
> +49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
> mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
> http://www.peter-dambier.de/
> http://iason.site.voila.fr/
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Fri Oct 17 20:34:19 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 17:34:19 -0700
Subject: [governance] Netiquete Reminder
References: <0DAAC7D7B60C4604A92084F8C9A475E2@IAN>
Message-ID: <48F92F0A.DAB8F778@ix.netcom.com>

Ian and all,

  Interesting thoughts in your suggestions below, Ian.

  Lets not forget that a basic human right is the right of self
expression even when such expression is offensive to others
for some reason.  In the US we refer to this in our 1st
amendment, freedom of speech and expression.

  This said I still agree that heated exchanges often escalate to
a point of loss of the original issue or point attempted to have
been expressed.  And it is best to avoid these sorts of exchanges.

Concentrating on issues is always a wise method and/or direction.
However often times issues are created by individuals or groups
of individuals and avoiding mention or interchange with same often
times dilutes and misrepresents the issue itself.

Ian Peter wrote:

> This is just a periodic reminder as regards netiquette on this list..
> I intend to post something similar from time to time as a reminder to
> myself as much as to anyone else.
>
> Our charter provides a few minimal netiquette guidelines. These
> include
>
> “Be conservative in what you send and liberal in what you receive. You
> should not send heated messages (flames) even if you are provoked. On
> the other hand, you shouldn’t be surprised if you get flamed and it’s
> prudent not to respond to flames.”
>
> It’s part of the nature of email that messages can be easily
> misunderstood, which means we have to be even more careful in our
> choice of words than we might in ordinary face to conversation. If
> there is a simple rule we can apply when we are dealing with issues we
> feel passionately about, it would be to concentrate on the issues, not
> on the person. Be hard on the issues, soft on the person. And we don’t
> need to respond to insults and inflame the situation – most people on
> this list know a personal insult when they see one, and the insult
> says a lot more about the person making the insult than it does the
> intended targets. No point in highlighting it. Some things are best
> let pass.
>
> The Charter also outlines some specific measures the co-ordinators may
> take in response to personal insults, spam, or other deliberate
> disruptions. These include suspensions from the list. I would hope
> never to need to activate a suspension, but it is important that we
> keep on mission here.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ian Peter
>
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1602 - Release Date:
> 8/9/2008 1:22 PM
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
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> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
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Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Fri Oct 17 20:35:59 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 17:35:59 -0700
Subject: [governance] McCain/Palin campaign angry over bogus DMCA takedowns
Message-ID: <48F92F6F.DC7071D5@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  As to individuals and groups creating issues, a case in point:

 http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081014-mccainpalin-campaign-angry-over-bogus-dmca-takedowns.html

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 19 02:49:31 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 23:49:31 -0700
Subject: [governance] Glimpses of comming attractions?: Microsoft Patents
 the Censoring of Speech
Message-ID: <48FAD87B.79449F1E@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  I can easily see this being very attractive to Censorship biggots...
Is this the future of the Internet we want?  I can see Google or
ICANN using this very liberally.  (  No pun intended )  How
would this fit in an Internet Bill of Rights?  Or does it at
all?

See:
On Tuesday, the USPTO awarded Microsoft a patent for
the  http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=7,437,290
Automatic Censorship of Audio Data for Broadcast, an invention
that addresses 'producing censored speech that has been altered so that
undesired words or phrases are either unintelligible or inaudible.' The
patent describes methods for muting offensive words and replacing them
with less offensive versions, and 'a third alternative provides for
overwriting the undesired word with a masking sound, i.e., "bleeping"
the undesired word with a tone.' After all, there's nothing worse 
than being subjected to offensive speech when you're
http://www.motherjones.com/arts/feature/2007/09/halo-three-xbox-live-microsoft.html
shooting someone in the head.

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 19 02:58:17 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 23:58:17 -0700
Subject: [governance] Yahoo Changes User Profiles, To Massive Outrage
Message-ID: <48FADA89.FF8DFEBB@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  Is this another example of the Internet we want?  Should
service providers have this leverage on it's paying users/customers?
What does this say in respect to an Internet Bill of Rights? Is
the IGC ready and willing to take this sort of thing on, head on?

For the record, I have never been a fan of Yahoo and consider
them less than honest with their business practices as well as
entirely week of user privacy and security.

See:
Yahoo decided to massively screw up their entire
userbase by
http://www.yprofileblog.com/blog/index.php/2008/10/17/managing-your-alias-and-profile/
changing all user profiles to blank. No warning, no automated way to
get data back, and other unwanted changes. The blog has such choice
quotes as 'We know this has been a rough transition for some
of you and, and are committed to helping you use, understand, and
(hopefully) enjoy your new profile,' and, 'We also know lots of you
worked hard on your old profiles and want your data. If you feel like
you're missing data, we've saved a copy of your old profile (and alias)
and our Customer Care team can retrieve this information. You won't,
however, be able to revert back to your old profile format, but you will
be able to get any data that you think is missing. To do this,
 http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/profiles/general.html please
go here to contact Customer Care.' There were 850 comments posted, all
negative, on the first day. There are hundreds more today. There is
http://www.ymessengerblog.com/blog/2008/10/17/changes-to-your-yahoo-profile/
even more outrage on the Yahoo Messenger blog.

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 19 03:09:02 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 00:09:02 -0700
Subject: [governance] iGoogle Users Irate About Portal's Changes
Message-ID: <48FADD0E.810057A8@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  Previews of more coming attractions, brought to you by
your Googol provider?  Seem not to Google users.  Again
is this the Internet we want?  How does this fit in with an
Internet Bill of Rights?  Or again, does it?

  Of course, as most of you already know, I am a not
always a fan of Googles business practices and oppose
their TOS.  But still I recognize Google as a significant
inovator.

See:

in an InformationWeek report on a
http://www.informationweek.com/news/internet/google/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=211201740
recent unannounced change in the iGoogle portal. Quoting: "Google
insists that its revised iGoogle personalized home page generates better
'happiness metrics' than the old design, but a vocal group of users 
isn't happy about the changes." The recent change introduces what Google 
refers to as "canvas view," which the
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/whats-new-with-igoogle.html
Official Google Blog claims "... makes iGoogle a more useful homepage
and a better platform for developers." Unlike the last major change made
to Gmail, there is no option to revert to the old version of iGoogle.
iGoogle users are reporting that widgets and themes are broken, Gmail
attachments don't work, and valuable screen space is wasted. The
http://groups.google.com/group/Google_Web_Search_Help-Personalizing/topics
Personalizing Google section of Google Groups is full of
thousands of complaints about this sudden and unannounced change. Many
posters have have stated that they are using the Canadian or UK version
of iGoogle or even moving to NetVibes.com to get their preferred layout
back. It seems that Google and Yahoo are moving in lockstep in springing
 http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/19/017209&tid=237 forced
changes that users hate.

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

In an InformationWeek report on a [1]recent unannounced
change in the iGoogle portal. Quoting: "Google insists that its revised
iGoogle personalized home page generates better 'happiness metrics' than

the old design, but a vocal group of users isn't happy about the
changes." The recent change introduces what Google refers to as "canvas
view," which the [2]Official Google Blog claims "... makes iGoogle a
more
useful homepage and a better platform for developers." Unlike the last
major change made to Gmail, there is no option to revert to the old
version of iGoogle. iGoogle users are reporting that widgets and themes
are broken, Gmail attachments don't work, and valuable screen space is
wasted. The [3]Personalizing Google section of Google Groups is full of
thousands of complaints about this sudden and unannounced change. Many
posters have have stated that they are using the Canadian or UK version
of iGoogle or even moving to NetVibes.com to get their preferred layout
back. It seems that Google and Yahoo are moving in lockstep in springing

[4]forced changes that users hate.
____________________________________________________________
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From seiiti.lists at googlemail.com  Mon Oct 20 05:14:50 2008
From: seiiti.lists at googlemail.com (Seiiti Arata)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:14:50 +0200
Subject: [governance] EURODIG
In-Reply-To: <48DA22E0.5030206@rits.org.br>
References: <bbd2a2cd0802070653p5f165a7bxe1dee47e4701649e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425964@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	 <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A84262F2@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
	 <48DA22E0.5030206@rits.org.br>
Message-ID: <ecd95cb50810200214v131e9faeoffbbfdc6f990eb91@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, this is available.

Also, a lot of interesting documents and brochures were provided to
participants.

As I do not enjoy carrying paper around, I googled every single one of them
and found the hyperlinks. Here they are:

CYBERCRIME

This brochure has the following text available online:

Convention on Cybercrime<http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/Html/185.htm>

Explanatory Report<http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/EN/Reports/Html/185.htm>

and

Additional protocol<http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/Html/189.htm>


DISABILITIES

Interesting documents on full participation of people with disabilities were
distributed in the event:

Resolution ResAP(2001)3 - Towards full citizenship of persons with
...<https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=233261&BackColorInternet=9999CC&BackColorIntranet=FFBB55&BackColorLogged=FFAC75>

Recommendation Rec(2006)5 of the Committee of Ministers to member
s...<https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=986865>


HUMAN RIGHTS


Human rights guidelines for online games
providers<http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/standardsetting/media/Doc/H-Inf%282008%29008_en.pdf>

Human rights guidelines for Internet service
providers<http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/standardsetting/media/Doc/H-Inf%282008%29009_en.pdf>

and

Declaration of the Committee of Ministers on human rights and the
r...<https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=849061>


OBSERVATORY

The European Audiovisual Observatory provided a brochure with main
activities to participants, and its contents are available at
http://www.obs.coe.int


CHILD PROTECTION

The Coe has the initiative Building a Europe for and with Children and there
is a website with more information at www.coe.int/children

Another document provided was the Declaration of the Committee of Ministers
on protecting the
dignity...<https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=1252427&Site=CM&BackColorInternet=9999CC&BackColorIntranet=FFBB55&BackColorLogged=FFAC75>.



FREE AND SAFE INTERNET


Recommendation CM/Rec(2007) 16 of the Committee of Ministers to
mem...<http://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=1207291>

Recommendation CM/Rec (2008)6 of the Committee of Ministers to
memb...<https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?Ref=CM/Rec%282008%296>

Building a free and safe Internet - Council of Europe submission
to...<http://www.coe.int/t/dc/press/source/CoE%20submission%20to%20IGF_100807FINAL.doc>


ICC BASIS

The International Chamber of Commerce also brought an interesting
publication, called An Inventory of Policy Positions and Practical
Guidance<http://www.iccwbo.org/uploadedFiles/ICC/policy/e-business/Statements/EBITT%20Inventory%20Brochure.pdf>,
1st Edition 2007


PROCESSING DATA

Another brochure was given to participants, called Convention for the
protction of individuals with regard to automatic processing of personal
data.

This brochure includes the following documents available online:

Convention for the protction of individuals with regard to
automati...<http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/Html/108.htm>and
Explanatory
Report <http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/EN/Reports/HTML/108.htm>

Amendments to the Convention ETS No. 108 Allowing the European
Comm...<http://www.coe.int/t/e/legal_affairs/legal_co-operation/data_protection/Documents/International_legal_instruments/2Amendements%20to%20the%20Convention%20108.asp>and
Explanatory
Memorandum<http://www.coe.int/t/e/legal_affairs/legal_co%2Doperation/data_protection/documents/international_legal_instruments/2Explanatory%20Memorandum%20on%20the%20amendments%20to%20Convention%20108.asp#TopOfPage>

and

Additional Protocol to the Convention for the Protection of
Individ...<http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/Html/181.htm>and
Explanatory
Report <http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/EN/Reports/Html/181.htm>



INTERNET - A CRITICAL RESOURCE FOR ALL

https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=1344395&Site=CM&BackColorInternet=9999CC&BackColorIntranet=FFBB55&BackColorLogged=FFAC75

Sorry for the bad formatting, we are quite in a hurry as the event is
starting. Hope you enjoy the links

Best
Seiiti

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Carlos Afonso <ca at rits.org.br> wrote:

> Dear Wolf, will there be records of this dialogue that we could read/watch?
>
> frt rgds
>
> --c.a.
>
> Kleinwächter wrote:
> >
> > European Dialogue on Internet Governance (EuroDIG.org)
> > Strasbourg, 20-21 October 2008
> >
> > Hosted by the Council of Europe Room G03, AGORABuilding, Strasbourg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Confirmed Speakers/Participants (inter alia):
> >
> > ·          Erika Mann, Member of the European Parliament
> >
> > ·          Maud de Boer Bucquicchio, Deputy Secretary General of the
> Council of Europe
> >
> > ·          Richard Sweteham, European Commission DG InfoSoc
> >
> > ·          Markus Kummer, IGF Executive Secretary,
> >
> > ·          Bertrand de la Chappelle, Envoy of the Information Society of
> the French Foreign Ministry
> >
> > ·          Yrjö Lensipuro, Finish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, ICANN GAC
> >
> > ·          Benoit Mueller, Business Software Alliance
> >
> > ·          Ilkka Lakaniemi, Nokia Siemens Networks
> >
> > ·          Ayesha Hassan, International Chamber of Commerce, BASIS
> >
> > ·          Emilie Taylor, NOMINET
> >
> > ·          Anette Muehlberg, ver.di, ICANN/ALAC
> >
> > ·          Avri Doria, Lulea Technology University, ICANN GNSO
> >
> > ·          Wolfgang Kleinwächter, University of Aarhus
> >
> > ·          Bill Drake, Graduate Institute for Higher International and
> Development Studies in Geneva
> >
> >
> >
> > 1.       Platform to discuss and shape European multi-stakeholder
> perspectives on Internet governance (universal access, security, privacy and
> openness on the Internet, critical Internet resources).
> >
> > 2.       Priority given to moderated audience-led discussion (no formal
> presentations/powerpoints) between all stakeholders (representatives of
> business, civil society, governments, international organisations, etc.).
> >
> > 3.       Visibility to and linking of different European initiatives
> related to Internet governance, including planned European-led workshops
> held at the global Internet Governance Forum (IGF) 2008 in Hyderabad, India.
> >
> > 4.       Reach out to/for European actors who will not be able to
> participate in the 2008 IGF in India.
> >
> > 5.       Discuss future plans and initiatives for European dialogue on
> Internet governance.
> >
> > 6.       Report back to the 2008 IGF in India about European perspectives
> and initiatives
> >
> >
> >
> > There is no Conference fee but participants should register under
> www.eurodig.org <http://www.eurodig.org/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Coalition mailing list
> > Coalition at mailman.epic.org
> > http://right.epic.org/mailman/listinfo/coalition
>
> _______________________________________________
> Coalition mailing list
> Coalition at mailman.epic.org
> http://right.epic.org/mailman/listinfo/coalition
>
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From sylvia.caras at gmail.com  Tue Oct 21 19:25:54 2008
From: sylvia.caras at gmail.com (Sylvia Caras)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:25:54 -0700
Subject: [governance] draft US right-to-know law
Message-ID: <b1161f110810211625n635693bfy5d2f61ba82bafb1a@mail.gmail.com>

Might these draft ideas for US transparent government be extended to
internet governance?

http://www.ombwatch.org/info/21stRightToKnowDraft-Revised.pdf

Sylvia
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Mon Oct 20 22:23:33 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:23:33 -0700
Subject: [governance] draft US right-to-know law
References: <b1161f110810211625n635693bfy5d2f61ba82bafb1a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48FD3D25.11D535D1@ix.netcom.com>

Sylvia and all,

  I see no reason why not in principal anyway...

Sylvia Caras wrote:

> Might these draft ideas for US transparent government be extended to
> internet governance?
>
> http://www.ombwatch.org/info/21stRightToKnowDraft-Revised.pdf
>
> Sylvia
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Wed Oct 22 04:07:57 2008
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:07:57 +0500
Subject: [governance] Sharing article on "end-to-end networking" and
 "openness" for distribution and feeding into IGF Workshops and Activities
Message-ID: <701af9f70810220107k5b6034c3mb1fc41fe7b72d2dc@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

Again this year, a number of factors contribute towards preventing my
physical participation in the IGF process, third time in a row that
include lack of funding and support, country situation (Pakistan) and
immediate work liabilities continuing on issues related to IPR,
Openness, Free and Open Source Software and Strategic Technology
Management.

However, I am sending a small article/paper for your review as an
attached .pdf document. I wrote this sometime ago and I would like to
personally request you all to use it in whatever way it can be used,
all in the context of Internet Governance and its process as well as
issue risks identification and mitigation in the area of "end-to-end
networking". Also the same is freely available to be either used as a
capacity building tool, working paper on the issue of Openness in
Internet Governance, a document to distribute to participants of any
or a particular workshop or for use by the members of this forum. A
brief for convenience is as follows and you are free to contact me on
any discussion within this context or to share any other perspectives
from the overall domain.

Title: The Trouble Makers Reloaded

Introduction
The pressing statements related to the Internet Governance debate
regarding future IG regimes to preserve the key principle of Internet
architecture - "end-to-end networking" are based on a number of issues
that effect not only the countries in general but also have a huge
impact on the various stakeholders as outlined in the Internet
Governance Working Definition both technical as well as with relevance
to the legal or regulatory frameworks.

Conclusion:
End-to-end connectivity initiated the possibilities for equitable
distribution of resources and access for all. It also affects various
political and developmental aspects of developed and developing
nations and some cases disrupting the current regulatory frameworks in
practice. Huge investment in international connectivity will continue
to deprive developing nations of investment and funds for supporting
their real socio-economic development issues unless they develop their
own Internet Backbones either by themselves or by establishing
international cooperation with like minded developed or developing
nations. Thus end-to-end networking and net neutrality are critical to
promoting freedom of expression, access to knowledge while encouraging
the stable and secure functioning of the Internet by taking the
Internet Governance debate to a new level of intervention and
interest.


Don't forget to visit
http://www.elon.edu/e-web/predictions/oecd_2008_seoul.xhtml

-- 

Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
Researcher and Advisor
Internet Governance
FOSS Advocate
(Free and Open Source Software)
Pakistan.
____________________________________________________________
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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Wed Oct 22 05:19:47 2008
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:19:47 +1100
Subject: [governance] new igc website now up
Message-ID: <1F166DB1A7CE42D5ABD1F2AF50CC5AB7@IAN>

Folks, the new IGC website is now up and running - same address,
www.igcaucus.org <http://www.igcaucus.org/> . Please let me know of any
problems you see - offlist if you like - being a new site I'd be surprised
if there aren't a few bugs here and there. No great bells and whistles here,
but it would be wonderful if people want to take this site from here and
develop it further.

 

Also looking for a volunteer website manager - you will need a little bit of
skills in drupal content management system (it's a bit techie but not too
bad) and an hour or so perhaps a month. Let me know if you would like to
take this on.

 

 

 

Ian Peter

PO Box 429

Bangalow NSW 2479

Australia

Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773

www.ianpeter.com

 

 

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From andersj at elon.edu  Wed Oct 22 07:06:18 2008
From: andersj at elon.edu (Janna Anderson)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 07:06:18 -0400
Subject: [governance] new igc website now up
In-Reply-To: <1F166DB1A7CE42D5ABD1F2AF50CC5AB7@IAN>
Message-ID: <C524816A.C31C%andersj@elon.edu>

Excellent, Ian. Thank you so much!

Janna

On 10/22/08 5:19 AM, "Ian Peter" <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:

> Folks, the new IGC website is now up and running ­ same address,
> www.igcaucus.org <http://www.igcaucus.org/> . Please let me know of any
> problems you see ­ offlist if you like ­ being a new site I¹d be surprised if
> there aren¹t a few bugs here and there. No great bells and whistles here, but
> it would be wonderful if people want to take this site from here and develop
> it further.
>  
> Also looking for a volunteer website manager ­ you will need a little bit of
> skills in drupal content management system (it¹s a bit techie but not too bad)
> and an hour or so perhaps a month. Let me know if you would like to take this
> on.
>   
>  
> Ian Peter
> PO Box 429
> Bangalow NSW 2479
> Australia
> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
> www.ianpeter.com
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> -- 
> Janna Quitney Anderson
> www.imaginingtheinternet.org
> andersj at elon.edu
> (336) 278-5733 (o)
> 
> 
> 

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From ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com  Wed Oct 22 07:27:06 2008
From: ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com (linda misek-falkoff)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 07:27:06 -0400
Subject: [governance] new igc website now up
In-Reply-To: <1F166DB1A7CE42D5ABD1F2AF50CC5AB7@IAN>
References: <1F166DB1A7CE42D5ABD1F2AF50CC5AB7@IAN>
Message-ID: <45ed74050810220427u52a25986p730936fc73770d6@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ian, and hello everybody:

Thanks for the cheering news, the beginning of Online Access. No content
apologies needed when the ubiquitous need for early Site establishment is
met. (!)  that is, many 'enterprises' regret waiting too long.

And as is said, don't let the '*Perfect'* get in the way of the
*Good*(including, as here, instances where content is still being
built and
processes expanded):

I for one will be glad to volunteer, pending education on the current
systems.

All the best, Linda.
(914) 769-3652

P.S. I attended the prior RIO Meeting entirely online, full-time, with
enjoyment and with data capture.
And pleasure interacting with others via C-space.


On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 5:19 AM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:

> Folks, the new IGC website is now up and running - same address,
> www.igcaucus.org <http://www.igcaucus.org/> . Please let me know of any
> problems you see - offlist if you like - being a new site I'd be surprised
> if there aren't a few bugs here and there. No great bells and whistles
> here,
> but it would be wonderful if people want to take this site from here and
> develop it further.
>
>
>
> Also looking for a volunteer website manager - you will need a little bit
> of
> skills in drupal content management system (it's a bit techie but not too
> bad) and an hour or so perhaps a month. Let me know if you would like to
> take this on.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ian Peter
>
> PO Box 429
>
> Bangalow NSW 2479
>
> Australia
>
> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
>
> www.ianpeter.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>



-- 
Dr. Linda D. Misek-Falkoff (Ph.D., J.D..)
Individual Email.

For i.d. only (update, to be embedded soon by LINKS)::
Communications Coordination Committee for the U.N.
Persons with Pain International.
National Disability Party, International Disability Alliance.
World Summit on Information Society, Internet Governance Forum, Computers
Freedom and Privacy -Onsite and Web participant; Human Rights working
groups..
Timeline Items, links to be provided:
1960's Innovator, Computers in Education, Text Processing and Analysis;
Automater, Thematic Apperception Test (T.A.T)., Creator, Context Concordance
to John Milton's Paradise Lost -  precursed Bible Concordances and related
computational theory and practice...
1970 ff first full time faculty member in liberal-arts based Computer
Science Studies; Vassar College; Computers in Education, Literature,
Psychology, Law, Medicine; generally.
1981 Co-Chair, Intl. Conference on Software Engineering and Software
Metrics...
1991 Research Asst.Prof. Blaine Sloan 'U.N. G.A. Resolutions in Our Changing
World'..
2000's Internet Law - Cyberlibel, Human Rights,social and values
impliacations..
2002 ff full participation, 'Convention on the Rights of Persons With
Disabilities.
2007 Nominee: Global Alliance for ICT Strategy Council.
Other Affiliations on Request
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From ca at rits.org.br  Wed Oct 22 07:55:00 2008
From: ca at rits.org.br (Carlos Afonso)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:55:00 -0200
Subject: [governance] new igc website now up
In-Reply-To: <1F166DB1A7CE42D5ABD1F2AF50CC5AB7@IAN>
References: <1F166DB1A7CE42D5ABD1F2AF50CC5AB7@IAN>
Message-ID: <48FF1494.3090201@rits.org.br>

Great work, mate! Simple, clear, effective, and with a good content
management engine behind it.

fraternal regards

--c.a.

Ian Peter wrote:
> Folks, the new IGC website is now up and running - same address,
> www.igcaucus.org <http://www.igcaucus.org/> . Please let me know of any
> problems you see - offlist if you like - being a new site I'd be surprised
> if there aren't a few bugs here and there. No great bells and whistles here,
> but it would be wonderful if people want to take this site from here and
> develop it further.
> 
>  
> 
> Also looking for a volunteer website manager - you will need a little bit of
> skills in drupal content management system (it's a bit techie but not too
> bad) and an hour or so perhaps a month. Let me know if you would like to
> take this on.
> 
> Ian Peter
> 
> PO Box 429
> 
> Bangalow NSW 2479
> 
> Australia
> 
> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
> 
> www.ianpeter.com
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch  Wed Oct 22 08:15:09 2008
From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:15:09 +0200
Subject: [governance] new igc website now up
In-Reply-To: <48FF1494.3090201@rits.org.br>
Message-ID: <C524E5ED.13654%william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch>

Hi,

This is really great, thanks much to Ian, Avri, APC, and whoever else was
involved.  

Somewhere down the line, it'd be good to pull together here the legacy docs,
e.g. caucus statements, inputs, nomination/election materials, etc from
2003-07.  Some are on Adam's old site http://www.net-gov.org/docs.php,
others are probably only on peoples' computers.  I think I have some that
could be unearthed.

Best,

Bill


On 10/22/08 1:55 PM, "Carlos Afonso" <ca at rits.org.br> wrote:

> Great work, mate! Simple, clear, effective, and with a good content
> management engine behind it.
> 
> fraternal regards
> 
> --c.a.
> 
> Ian Peter wrote:
>> Folks, the new IGC website is now up and running - same address,
>> www.igcaucus.org <http://www.igcaucus.org/> . Please let me know of any
>> problems you see - offlist if you like - being a new site I'd be surprised
>> if there aren't a few bugs here and there. No great bells and whistles here,
>> but it would be wonderful if people want to take this site from here and
>> develop it further.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Also looking for a volunteer website manager - you will need a little bit of
>> skills in drupal content management system (it's a bit techie but not too
>> bad) and an hour or so perhaps a month. Let me know if you would like to
>> take this on.
>> 
>> Ian Peter
>> 
>> PO Box 429
>> 
>> Bangalow NSW 2479
>> 
>> Australia
>> 
>> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
>> 
>> www.ianpeter.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  


____________________________________________________________
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From renate.bloem at gmail.com  Wed Oct 22 08:45:07 2008
From: renate.bloem at gmail.com (Renate Bloem (Gmail))
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:45:07 +0200
Subject: [governance] new igc website now up
In-Reply-To: <C524E5ED.13654%william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch>
Message-ID: <48ff2059.0c07560a.10f6.6743@mx.google.com>

I join in the congrats to Ian and all involved. It is so wonderful clear and
simple. I sent it already on.

Thanks

Renate

-----Original Message-----
From: William Drake [mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch] 
Sent: mercredi, 22. octobre 2008 14:15
To: Governance
Subject: Re: [governance] new igc website now up

Hi,

This is really great, thanks much to Ian, Avri, APC, and whoever else was
involved.  

Somewhere down the line, it'd be good to pull together here the legacy docs,
e.g. caucus statements, inputs, nomination/election materials, etc from
2003-07.  Some are on Adam's old site http://www.net-gov.org/docs.php,
others are probably only on peoples' computers.  I think I have some that
could be unearthed.

Best,

Bill


On 10/22/08 1:55 PM, "Carlos Afonso" <ca at rits.org.br> wrote:

> Great work, mate! Simple, clear, effective, and with a good content
> management engine behind it.
> 
> fraternal regards
> 
> --c.a.
> 
> Ian Peter wrote:
>> Folks, the new IGC website is now up and running - same address,
>> www.igcaucus.org <http://www.igcaucus.org/> . Please let me know of any
>> problems you see - offlist if you like - being a new site I'd be
surprised
>> if there aren't a few bugs here and there. No great bells and whistles
here,
>> but it would be wonderful if people want to take this site from here and
>> develop it further.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Also looking for a volunteer website manager - you will need a little bit
of
>> skills in drupal content management system (it's a bit techie but not too
>> bad) and an hour or so perhaps a month. Let me know if you would like to
>> take this on.
>> 
>> Ian Peter
>> 
>> PO Box 429
>> 
>> Bangalow NSW 2479
>> 
>> Australia
>> 
>> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
>> 
>> www.ianpeter.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  


____________________________________________________________
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Tue Oct 21 15:43:20 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:43:20 -0700
Subject: [governance] new igc website now up
References: <C524E5ED.13654%william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch>
Message-ID: <48FE30D8.520526B9@ix.netcom.com>

Bill and all,

  Seems that https://ssl.cpsr.org/mailman/listinfo/governance
and https://ssl.cpsr.org/pipermail/governance/ are "Not Found".

William Drake wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is really great, thanks much to Ian, Avri, APC, and whoever else was
> involved.
>
> Somewhere down the line, it'd be good to pull together here the legacy docs,
> e.g. caucus statements, inputs, nomination/election materials, etc from
> 2003-07.  Some are on Adam's old site http://www.net-gov.org/docs.php,
> others are probably only on peoples' computers.  I think I have some that
> could be unearthed.
>
> Best,
>
> Bill
>
> On 10/22/08 1:55 PM, "Carlos Afonso" <ca at rits.org.br> wrote:
>
> > Great work, mate! Simple, clear, effective, and with a good content
> > management engine behind it.
> >
> > fraternal regards
> >
> > --c.a.
> >
> > Ian Peter wrote:
> >> Folks, the new IGC website is now up and running - same address,
> >> www.igcaucus.org <http://www.igcaucus.org/> . Please let me know of any
> >> problems you see - offlist if you like - being a new site I'd be surprised
> >> if there aren't a few bugs here and there. No great bells and whistles here,
> >> but it would be wonderful if people want to take this site from here and
> >> develop it further.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Also looking for a volunteer website manager - you will need a little bit of
> >> skills in drupal content management system (it's a bit techie but not too
> >> bad) and an hour or so perhaps a month. Let me know if you would like to
> >> take this on.
> >>
> >> Ian Peter
> >>
> >> PO Box 429
> >>
> >> Bangalow NSW 2479
> >>
> >> Australia
> >>
> >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
> >>
> >> www.ianpeter.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



____________________________________________________________
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     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Tue Oct 21 15:50:51 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:50:51 -0700
Subject: [governance] new igc website now up
References: <C524E5ED.13654%william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch>
Message-ID: <48FE329B.10924D4A@ix.netcom.com>

Bill and all,

  I also noticed that http://www.wsis-online.net/ link is bad
as well.  Error is a 502 bad gateway, The proxy server received
an invalid response from an upstream server.

William Drake wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is really great, thanks much to Ian, Avri, APC, and whoever else was
> involved.
>
> Somewhere down the line, it'd be good to pull together here the legacy docs,
> e.g. caucus statements, inputs, nomination/election materials, etc from
> 2003-07.  Some are on Adam's old site http://www.net-gov.org/docs.php,
> others are probably only on peoples' computers.  I think I have some that
> could be unearthed.
>
> Best,
>
> Bill
>
> On 10/22/08 1:55 PM, "Carlos Afonso" <ca at rits.org.br> wrote:
>
> > Great work, mate! Simple, clear, effective, and with a good content
> > management engine behind it.
> >
> > fraternal regards
> >
> > --c.a.
> >
> > Ian Peter wrote:
> >> Folks, the new IGC website is now up and running - same address,
> >> www.igcaucus.org <http://www.igcaucus.org/> . Please let me know of any
> >> problems you see - offlist if you like - being a new site I'd be surprised
> >> if there aren't a few bugs here and there. No great bells and whistles here,
> >> but it would be wonderful if people want to take this site from here and
> >> develop it further.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Also looking for a volunteer website manager - you will need a little bit of
> >> skills in drupal content management system (it's a bit techie but not too
> >> bad) and an hour or so perhaps a month. Let me know if you would like to
> >> take this on.
> >>
> >> Ian Peter
> >>
> >> PO Box 429
> >>
> >> Bangalow NSW 2479
> >>
> >> Australia
> >>
> >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
> >>
> >> www.ianpeter.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



____________________________________________________________
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     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Tue Oct 21 15:54:01 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:54:01 -0700
Subject: [governance] new igc website now up
References: <1F166DB1A7CE42D5ABD1F2AF50CC5AB7@IAN>
Message-ID: <48FE3359.C84EDFA5@ix.netcom.com>

Ian and all,

  Well done here.  Seems all links are working fine.

Ian Peter wrote:

> Folks, the new IGC website is now up and running – same address,
> www.igcaucus.org. Please let me know of any problems you see – offlist
> if you like – being a new site I’d be surprised if there aren’t a few
> bugs here and there. No great bells and whistles here, but it would be
> wonderful if people want to take this site from here and develop it
> further.
>
> Also looking for a volunteer website manager – you will need a little
> bit of skills in drupal content management system (it’s a bit techie
> but not too bad) and an hour or so perhaps a month. Let me know if you
> would like to take this on.
>
> Ian Peter
>
> PO Box 429
>
> Bangalow NSW 2479
>
> Australia
>
> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
>
> www.ianpeter.com
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Wed Oct 22 22:37:28 2008
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 07:37:28 +0500
Subject: [governance] Sharing article on "end-to-end networking" and
 "openness" for distribution and feeding into IGF Workshops and Activities
In-Reply-To: <3DF8101092666E4A9020D949E419EB6F02A84663@ensms02.iris.se>
References: <701af9f70810220107k5b6034c3mb1fc41fe7b72d2dc@mail.gmail.com>
	 <3DF8101092666E4A9020D949E419EB6F02A84663@ensms02.iris.se>
Message-ID: <701af9f70810221937r4c55fe92i487d9113e6efcc56@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Kicki,
Here we go, the word file is also attached :)

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:28 AM, Kicki Nordström
<kicki.nordstrom at srf.nu> wrote:
> Dear friend,
>
> As a PWD myself , I understand your frustration! But you can not seen PDF-files to blind persons like me, as we  can not open or read or print this format in our soft ware programs that try to convert visual screens   applications, to fit blind persons! PDF files are most of the time written as pictures, and blind people can not read pictures!  But if a PDF file is written in Adobe Reader, we may be able to read it but just from the top to the end, without any brake, and not able to print it!
>
> So if we could agree on another format, I would be happy, lie Word files or text files!
>
>
> Kicki Nordström
>
> Ombudsman
> Synskadades Riksförbund (SRF)
> 122 88 Enskede
> Sweden
> Tel: +46 (0)8 39 92 55
> E-mail: kicki.nordstrom at srf.nu
>
> World Blind Union (WBU)
> Cell: +46 (0)70 766 18 19
> kicki.nordstrom at telia.com (private)
>
>
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: Fouad Bajwa [mailto:fouadbajwa at gmail.com]
> Skickat: den 22 oktober 2008 10:08
> Till: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Kopia: Kabani; Katitza Rodríguez; phet.sayo at gmail.com; jeanette at wz-berlin.de; mueller at syr.edu; jrmathia at maxwell.syr.edu; dcogburn at syr.edu; hans.klein at pubpolicy.gatech.edu; lmcknigh at syr.edu; m.j.g.vaneeten at tudelft.nl; info at internetgovernance.org; communications at icair.org; zittrain at law.harvard.edu; sirc at ntu.edu.sg; data at pewinternet.org; lrainie at pewinternet.org; info at tcfir.org; tphang at ntu.edu.sg; cykuo at ntu.edu.sg; recerca at uoc.edu; director at oii.ox.ac.uk; yochai_benkler at harvard.edu; tfisher at law.harvard.edu; fouadbajwa at gmail.com
> Ämne: [governance] Sharing article on "end-to-end networking" and "openness" for distribution and feeding into IGF Workshops and Activities
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> Again this year, a number of factors contribute towards preventing my physical participation in the IGF process, third time in a row that include lack of funding and support, country situation (Pakistan) and immediate work liabilities continuing on issues related to IPR, Openness, Free and Open Source Software and Strategic Technology Management.
>
> However, I am sending a small article/paper for your review as an attached .pdf document. I wrote this sometime ago and I would like to personally request you all to use it in whatever way it can be used, all in the context of Internet Governance and its process as well as issue risks identification and mitigation in the area of "end-to-end networking". Also the same is freely available to be either used as a capacity building tool, working paper on the issue of Openness in Internet Governance, a document to distribute to participants of any or a particular workshop or for use by the members of this forum. A brief for convenience is as follows and you are free to contact me on any discussion within this context or to share any other perspectives from the overall domain.
>
> Title: The Trouble Makers Reloaded
>
> Introduction
> The pressing statements related to the Internet Governance debate regarding future IG regimes to preserve the key principle of Internet architecture - "end-to-end networking" are based on a number of issues that effect not only the countries in general but also have a huge impact on the various stakeholders as outlined in the Internet Governance Working Definition both technical as well as with relevance to the legal or regulatory frameworks.
>
> Conclusion:
> End-to-end connectivity initiated the possibilities for equitable distribution of resources and access for all. It also affects various political and developmental aspects of developed and developing nations and some cases disrupting the current regulatory frameworks in practice. Huge investment in international connectivity will continue to deprive developing nations of investment and funds for supporting their real socio-economic development issues unless they develop their own Internet Backbones either by themselves or by establishing international cooperation with like minded developed or developing nations. Thus end-to-end networking and net neutrality are critical to promoting freedom of expression, access to knowledge while encouraging the stable and secure functioning of the Internet by taking the Internet Governance debate to a new level of intervention and interest.
>
>
> Don't forget to visit
> http://www.elon.edu/e-web/predictions/oecd_2008_seoul.xhtml
>
> --
>
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa
> Researcher and Advisor
> Internet Governance
> FOSS Advocate
> (Free and Open Source Software)
> Pakistan.
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>
> --
> Jag använder gratisversionen av SPAMfighter för privata användare.
>  196 spam har blivit blockerade hittills.
>  Betalande användare har inte detta meddelande i sin e-post.
> Hämta gratis SPAMfighter här: http://www.spamfighter.com/lsv
>



-- 

Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
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     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Wed Oct 22 01:15:21 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:15:21 -0700
Subject: [governance] Sharing article on "end-to-end networking" 
References: <701af9f70810220107k5b6034c3mb1fc41fe7b72d2dc@mail.gmail.com>
		<3DF8101092666E4A9020D949E419EB6F02A84663@ensms02.iris.se> <701af9f70810221937r4c55fe92i487d9113e6efcc56@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48FEB6E9.D86C5FED@ix.netcom.com>

Fouad and all,

  FWIW the biggest single threat to the Internet as it is today is
the Patenting of it's various central protocols.  All else will flow
from that potential decision(s).  A reversion back to private networks
is, and has been underway and shall grow, how fast and broadly remains
yet another threat and/or evil, depending on your point of view.

Fouad Bajwa wrote:

> Dear Kicki,
> Here we go, the word file is also attached :)
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:28 AM, Kicki Nordström
> <kicki.nordstrom at srf.nu> wrote:
> > Dear friend,
> >
> > As a PWD myself , I understand your frustration! But you can not seen PDF-files to blind persons like me, as we  can not open or read or print this format in our soft ware programs that try to convert visual screens   applications, to fit blind persons! PDF files are most of the time written as pictures, and blind people can not read pictures!  But if a PDF file is written in Adobe Reader, we may be able to read it but just from the top to the end, without any brake, and not able to print it!
> >
> > So if we could agree on another format, I would be happy, lie Word files or text files!
> >
> >
> > Kicki Nordström
> >
> > Ombudsman
> > Synskadades Riksförbund (SRF)
> > 122 88 Enskede
> > Sweden
> > Tel: +46 (0)8 39 92 55
> > E-mail: kicki.nordstrom at srf.nu
> >
> > World Blind Union (WBU)
> > Cell: +46 (0)70 766 18 19
> > kicki.nordstrom at telia.com (private)
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> > Från: Fouad Bajwa [mailto:fouadbajwa at gmail.com]
> > Skickat: den 22 oktober 2008 10:08
> > Till: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > Kopia: Kabani; Katitza Rodríguez; phet.sayo at gmail.com; jeanette at wz-berlin.de; mueller at syr.edu; jrmathia at maxwell.syr.edu; dcogburn at syr.edu; hans.klein at pubpolicy.gatech.edu; lmcknigh at syr.edu; m.j.g.vaneeten at tudelft.nl; info at internetgovernance.org; communications at icair.org; zittrain at law.harvard.edu; sirc at ntu.edu.sg; data at pewinternet.org; lrainie at pewinternet.org; info at tcfir.org; tphang at ntu.edu.sg; cykuo at ntu.edu.sg; recerca at uoc.edu; director at oii.ox.ac.uk; yochai_benkler at harvard.edu; tfisher at law.harvard.edu; fouadbajwa at gmail.com
> > Ämne: [governance] Sharing article on "end-to-end networking" and "openness" for distribution and feeding into IGF Workshops and Activities
> >
> > Dear Colleagues,
> >
> > Again this year, a number of factors contribute towards preventing my physical participation in the IGF process, third time in a row that include lack of funding and support, country situation (Pakistan) and immediate work liabilities continuing on issues related to IPR, Openness, Free and Open Source Software and Strategic Technology Management.
> >
> > However, I am sending a small article/paper for your review as an attached .pdf document. I wrote this sometime ago and I would like to personally request you all to use it in whatever way it can be used, all in the context of Internet Governance and its process as well as issue risks identification and mitigation in the area of "end-to-end networking". Also the same is freely available to be either used as a capacity building tool, working paper on the issue of Openness in Internet Governance, a document to distribute to participants of any or a particular workshop or for use by the members of this forum. A brief for convenience is as follows and you are free to contact me on any discussion within this context or to share any other perspectives from the overall domain.
> >
> > Title: The Trouble Makers Reloaded
> >
> > Introduction
> > The pressing statements related to the Internet Governance debate regarding future IG regimes to preserve the key principle of Internet architecture - "end-to-end networking" are based on a number of issues that effect not only the countries in general but also have a huge impact on the various stakeholders as outlined in the Internet Governance Working Definition both technical as well as with relevance to the legal or regulatory frameworks.
> >
> > Conclusion:
> > End-to-end connectivity initiated the possibilities for equitable distribution of resources and access for all. It also affects various political and developmental aspects of developed and developing nations and some cases disrupting the current regulatory frameworks in practice. Huge investment in international connectivity will continue to deprive developing nations of investment and funds for supporting their real socio-economic development issues unless they develop their own Internet Backbones either by themselves or by establishing international cooperation with like minded developed or developing nations. Thus end-to-end networking and net neutrality are critical to promoting freedom of expression, access to knowledge while encouraging the stable and secure functioning of the Internet by taking the Internet Governance debate to a new level of intervention and interest.
> >
> >
> > Don't forget to visit
> > http://www.elon.edu/e-web/predictions/oecd_2008_seoul.xhtml
> >
> > --
> >
> > Regards.
> > --------------------------
> > Fouad Bajwa
> > Researcher and Advisor
> > Internet Governance
> > FOSS Advocate
> > (Free and Open Source Software)
> > Pakistan.
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jag använder gratisversionen av SPAMfighter för privata användare.
> >  196 spam har blivit blockerade hittills.
> >  Betalande användare har inte detta meddelande i sin e-post.
> > Hämta gratis SPAMfighter här: http://www.spamfighter.com/lsv
> >
>
> --
>
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                                  Name: Fouad_Bajwa_IGF_TroubleMakers_Reloaded.doc
>    Fouad_Bajwa_IGF_TroubleMakers_Reloaded.doc    Type: WINWORD File (application/msword)
>                                              Encoding: base64

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 01:28:46 2008
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:28:46 +0500
Subject: [governance] IGF Remote Participation in Internet Governance Forum
 in Hyderabad, India, 2008
Message-ID: <701af9f70810222228g3ec65e6eka57cab2777cffdaf@mail.gmail.com>

To all participants not being able to physically participate in IGF
Hyderabad, India 2008.

IGF Remote Participation http://www.igfremote.com/ - Increasing
options for inclusive participation at the Internet Governance Forum
in Hyderabad, India, 2008

We are a small group of interested IGF participants, who has joined
together with the common concern to foster the possibility of more
complete remote attendance at the upcoming IGF in Hyderabad, 2008. Our
idea is to help to provide a service that will benefit the people who
are unable to attend the IGF, which means that our work is based on a
very practical approach.

We have studied remote participation initiatives put forth in other
meetings and we decided to propose the creation of local IGF hubs
(Watch our Statement presented in the Open Consultations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOlZ_dAek4Y). This proposal has been
endorsed by the IGF Secretariat.

The hubs will be local meetings, which will exhibit the webcast of the
IGF. People in the hubs will also be able to interact with the IGF,
using Dimdim http://www.dimdim.com/, a platform which is partly
developed in Hyderabad. These local meetings will also hold panels and
roundtables, to discuss the themes of the IGF from a local
perspective.

We would like to invite all the IG Community to participate on this effort.

Kindly forward your consent, names and country so we can intimate you
about your country Remote Hubs. We can also organize one specifically
for the WSIS/IG CS Caucus

-- 

Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 09:41:05 2008
From: ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com (linda misek-falkoff)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:41:05 -0400
Subject: [governance] IGF Remote Participation in Internet Governance Forum
 in Hyderabad, India, 2008
In-Reply-To: <45ed74050810230633kbee3039p92f43c0846c641d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <701af9f70810222228g3ec65e6eka57cab2777cffdaf@mail.gmail.com>
	 <45ed74050810230633kbee3039p92f43c0846c641d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45ed74050810230641q6bd71a17l99905e274439027a@mail.gmail.com>

P.S.
Let's include a USA Hub Group along with the others as soon as possible.
Congratulations on already having Hub Activity notated on the general
Website.


----- (posted previously): -----
Good for you!  Please include me in all phases, planning and hub
coordinating and any way you feel helpful.

With best wishes, LDMF.
Internetizen over 4 decades.  Ore-ARPANet, ARPANet, forward...
Pleased to work with you.

  On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:

> To all participants not being able to physically participate in IGF
> Hyderabad, India 2008.
>
> IGF Remote Participation http://www.igfremote.com/ - Increasing
> options for inclusive participation at the Internet Governance Forum
> in Hyderabad, India, 2008
>
> We are a small group of interested IGF participants, who has joined
> together with the common concern to foster the possibility of more
> complete remote attendance at the upcoming IGF in Hyderabad, 2008. Our
> idea is to help to provide a service that will benefit the people who
> are unable to attend the IGF, which means that our work is based on a
> very practical approach.
>
> We have studied remote participation initiatives put forth in other
> meetings and we decided to propose the creation of local IGF hubs
> (Watch our Statement presented in the Open Consultations
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOlZ_dAek4Y). This proposal has been
> endorsed by the IGF Secretariat.
>
> The hubs will be local meetings, which will exhibit the webcast of the
> IGF. People in the hubs will also be able to interact with the IGF,
> using Dimdim http://www.dimdim.com/, a platform which is partly
> developed in Hyderabad. These local meetings will also hold panels and
> roundtables, to discuss the themes of the IGF from a local
> perspective.
>
> We would like to invite all the IG Community to participate on this effort.
>
> Kindly forward your consent, names and country so we can intimate you
> about your country Remote Hubs. We can also organize one specifically
> for the WSIS/IG CS Caucus
>
> --
>
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>



-- 
Dr. Linda D. Misek-Falkoff (Ph.D., J.D..)
Individual Email.

For i.d. only (update, to be embedded soon by LINKS)::
Communications Coordination Committee for the U.N.
Persons with Pain International.
National Disability Party, International Disability Alliance.
World Summit on Information Society, Internet Governance Forum, Computers
Freedom and Privacy -Onsite and Web participant; Human Rights working
groups..
Timeline Items, links to be provided:
1960's Innovator, Computers in Education, Text Processing and Analysis;
Automater, Thematic Apperception Test (T.A.T)., Creator, Context Concordance
to John Milton's Paradise Lost -  precursed Bible Concordances and related
computational theory and practice...
1970 ff first full time faculty member in liberal-arts based Computer
Science Studies; Vassar College; Computers in Education, Literature,
Psychology, Law, Medicine; generally.
1981 Co-Chair, Intl. Conference on Software Engineering and Software
Metrics...
1991 Research Asst.Prof. Blaine Sloan 'U.N. G.A. Resolutions in Our Changing
World'..
2000's Internet Law - Cyberlibel, Human Rights,social and values
impliacations..
2002 ff full participation, 'Convention on the Rights of Persons With
Disabilities.
2007 Nominee: Global Alliance for ICT Strategy Council.
Other Affiliations on Request
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From mueller at syr.edu  Thu Oct 23 10:50:11 2008
From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:50:11 -0400
Subject: [governance] RE: [Coalition] Civil Society Information Society
 Advisory Council(CSISAC) Charter
In-Reply-To: <3699C01E-E582-49A4-8EF0-7179A13B6780@epic.org>
References: <3699C01E-E582-49A4-8EF0-7179A13B6780@epic.org>
Message-ID: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9B81@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu>

Hi, Marc
I just caught up with this message, and I think I speak for several CS
groups in saying that this is just not the way we ought to be going
about constructing a joint, unified civil society presence in OECD. 

The document was not developed on the public Wiki that you (EPIC)
yourself created; it ignores the output of a collective meeting of the
involved CS groups in Geneva; it unilaterally declares your own
organization the "Secretariat" without any process for gaining the
consent of other civil society organizations. And releasing a proposal
one day before you discuss it on a call is bizarre and minimizes the
opportunity for actual participation and acceptance.

So I won't be on that call and don't think anyone else outside EPIC will
be, either. 

Let me know when ya'll decide that this is about civil society and more
than just EPIC. 

--MM

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coalition-bounces at mailman.epic.org [mailto:coalition-
> bounces at mailman.epic.org] On Behalf Of Marc Rotenberg
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:08 AM
> To: coalition at mailman.thepublicvoice.org
> Subject: [Coalition] Civil Society Information Society Advisory
> Council(CSISAC) Charter
> 
> Friends,
> 
> Drawing on the comments that were submitted to the Public Voice list,
> the various meetings that took place in Seoul in June, and the
> subsequent meetings with the OECD in Geneva and Washington, we have
put
> together a proposal for the OECD Secretariat for the "Civil Society
> Information Society Advisory Council (CSISAC).
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 11:47:36 2008
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (rafik dammak)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:47:36 +0200
Subject: [governance] Re: IGF Remote Participation in Internet Governance
 Forum in Hyderabad, India, 2008
In-Reply-To: <701af9f70810222228g3ec65e6eka57cab2777cffdaf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <701af9f70810222228g3ec65e6eka57cab2777cffdaf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bbd2a2cd0810230847od50d865p70041f4074198331@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

As Fouad has informed, a good possibility of remote attendence in IGF
Hyderabad is the creation of hubs.
It was an idea from civil society (www.igfremote.com) that has received
support from the IGF Secretariat. Please note that the process of
registration of new hubs is being coordinated by the IGF Secretariat. You
can have more information about the registration procedure in
http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/index.php/remoteparticipation.

Best wishes!

Rafik Dammak
Remote Participation Working Group


On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:

> To all participants not being able to physically participate in IGF
> Hyderabad, India 2008.
>
> IGF Remote Participation http://www.igfremote.com/ - Increasing
> options for inclusive participation at the Internet Governance Forum
> in Hyderabad, India, 2008
>
> We are a small group of interested IGF participants, who has joined
> together with the common concern to foster the possibility of more
> complete remote attendance at the upcoming IGF in Hyderabad, 2008. Our
> idea is to help to provide a service that will benefit the people who
> are unable to attend the IGF, which means that our work is based on a
> very practical approach.
>
> We have studied remote participation initiatives put forth in other
> meetings and we decided to propose the creation of local IGF hubs
> (Watch our Statement presented in the Open Consultations
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOlZ_dAek4Y). This proposal has been
> endorsed by the IGF Secretariat.
>
> The hubs will be local meetings, which will exhibit the webcast of the
> IGF. People in the hubs will also be able to interact with the IGF,
> using Dimdim http://www.dimdim.com/, a platform which is partly
> developed in Hyderabad. These local meetings will also hold panels and
> roundtables, to discuss the themes of the IGF from a local
> perspective.
>
> We would like to invite all the IG Community to participate on this effort.
>
> Kindly forward your consent, names and country so we can intimate you
> about your country Remote Hubs. We can also organize one specifically
> for the WSIS/IG CS Caucus
>
> --
>
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa
>
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Wed Oct 22 16:28:08 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:28:08 -0700
Subject: [governance] RE: [Coalition] Civil Society Information 
References: <3699C01E-E582-49A4-8EF0-7179A13B6780@epic.org> <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9B81@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <48FF8CD7.E0A83CA@ix.netcom.com>

Milton and all,

  Thanks, and I concur.  Some of us have seen this sort of tactic
many times before, ICANN is famous for it.

Milton L Mueller wrote:

> Hi, Marc
> I just caught up with this message, and I think I speak for several CS
> groups in saying that this is just not the way we ought to be going
> about constructing a joint, unified civil society presence in OECD.
>
> The document was not developed on the public Wiki that you (EPIC)
> yourself created; it ignores the output of a collective meeting of the
> involved CS groups in Geneva; it unilaterally declares your own
> organization the "Secretariat" without any process for gaining the
> consent of other civil society organizations. And releasing a proposal
> one day before you discuss it on a call is bizarre and minimizes the
> opportunity for actual participation and acceptance.
>
> So I won't be on that call and don't think anyone else outside EPIC will
> be, either.
>
> Let me know when ya'll decide that this is about civil society and more
> than just EPIC.
>
> --MM
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: coalition-bounces at mailman.epic.org [mailto:coalition-
> > bounces at mailman.epic.org] On Behalf Of Marc Rotenberg
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:08 AM
> > To: coalition at mailman.thepublicvoice.org
> > Subject: [Coalition] Civil Society Information Society Advisory
> > Council(CSISAC) Charter
> >
> > Friends,
> >
> > Drawing on the comments that were submitted to the Public Voice list,
> > the various meetings that took place in Seoul in June, and the
> > subsequent meetings with the OECD in Geneva and Washington, we have
> put
> > together a proposal for the OECD Secretariat for the "Civil Society
> > Information Society Advisory Council (CSISAC).
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Thu Oct 23 15:15:51 2008
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 00:15:51 +0500
Subject: [governance] Re: IGF Remote Participation in Internet Governance
 Forum in Hyderabad, India, 2008
In-Reply-To: <701af9f70810222228g3ec65e6eka57cab2777cffdaf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <701af9f70810222228g3ec65e6eka57cab2777cffdaf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <701af9f70810231215x7e619f4cw5d029e8c1e72483f@mail.gmail.com>

Just in case you may have missed this message, kindly visit
http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/index.php/remoteparticipation and
forward your request for setting up a Remote Hub for your country's
participation remotely! Also send out this message to as many
organizations as possible!

Dear all,

As Fouad has informed, a good possibility of remote attendence in IGF
Hyderabad is the creation of hubs.
It was an idea from civil society (www.igfremote.com) that has
received support from the IGF Secretariat. Please note that the
process of registration of new hubs is being coordinated by the IGF
Secretariat. You can have more information about the registration
procedure in http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/index.php/remoteparticipation.

Best wishes!

Rafik Dammak
Remote Participation Working Group


On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 10:28 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
> To all participants not being able to physically participate in IGF
> Hyderabad, India 2008.
>
> IGF Remote Participation http://www.igfremote.com/ - Increasing
> options for inclusive participation at the Internet Governance Forum
> in Hyderabad, India, 2008
>
> We are a small group of interested IGF participants, who has joined
> together with the common concern to foster the possibility of more
> complete remote attendance at the upcoming IGF in Hyderabad, 2008. Our
> idea is to help to provide a service that will benefit the people who
> are unable to attend the IGF, which means that our work is based on a
> very practical approach.
>
> We have studied remote participation initiatives put forth in other
> meetings and we decided to propose the creation of local IGF hubs
> (Watch our Statement presented in the Open Consultations
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOlZ_dAek4Y). This proposal has been
> endorsed by the IGF Secretariat.
>
> The hubs will be local meetings, which will exhibit the webcast of the
> IGF. People in the hubs will also be able to interact with the IGF,
> using Dimdim http://www.dimdim.com/, a platform which is partly
> developed in Hyderabad. These local meetings will also hold panels and
> roundtables, to discuss the themes of the IGF from a local
> perspective.
>
> We would like to invite all the IG Community to participate on this effort.
>
> Kindly forward your consent, names and country so we can intimate you
> about your country Remote Hubs. We can also organize one specifically
> for the WSIS/IG CS Caucus
>
> --
>
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa
>



-- 

Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Fri Oct 24 01:00:08 2008
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:00:08 +0500
Subject: [governance] IGF Remote Hub Creation Process for remote country
 participation in IGF Hyderabad 2008
Message-ID: <701af9f70810232200v40526824gc3d390b032bbb24d@mail.gmail.com>

Dear IG Caucus Members, the following is the process for creating IGF
Remote Hubs for your countries as forwarded by Chengetai Masango at
the Secretariat of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF):

In order to become an approved Remote Hub you have to register with
the IGF Secretariat. You can do this by sending an email to
igf at unog.ch and cmasango at unog.ch, providing the Secretariat with the
following information:

A. Firstly, we need to know a bit about you (we will not publish this
information):
1. The organization you are with:
2. A brief summary of your involvement and experience in Internet
governance (IG) issues: (including other IG related events you have
been involved with).
3. Full contact information (address, email, phone number)

B. Information that will go up on our website once the hub is approved:
1. Institution were the hub will be based:
2. Possible area(s) of interest within the 5 main themes:
3. Number of expected participants within the hub:
4. Planned pre-meeting activities:
5. Contact person:
6. Contact email:

Best regards,

Chengetai Masango

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Programme and Technology Manager
Secretariat of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF)
Bocage Annex
Palais des Nations
CH - 1211 Genève 10
e-mail: cmasango at unog.ch
Tel : +41(0)22 917 57 68
Fax : +41(0)22 917 00 92

-- 

Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Fri Oct 24 01:47:25 2008
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:47:25 +0500
Subject: [governance] RE: [Coalition] Civil Society Information Society
 Advisory Council(CSISAC) Charter
In-Reply-To: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9B81@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu>
References: <3699C01E-E582-49A4-8EF0-7179A13B6780@epic.org>
	 <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9B81@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <701af9f70810232247raf06135nb4642f080dc51b8a@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Marc and Milton,

Can such proposals and documents also be shared with us who
participated and intervened during the OECD Ministerial with the Civil
Society Group and signed the CS Seoul Declaration?

I feel that maybe due to my own lack of direct contact with the group,
I may have been left out. As we also represent a number of groups that
have been keenly following the process of inclusion of CS in the OECD
process, I would like us to be included into the mailing list on which
such discussions are taking place.

Regarding skype calls and participation, in a country like mine
Pakistan, where we have an economic, energy and stability crisis, with
only 8-10 hours of electricity to carry out communication and respond
to these activities, there should be a mailing list for
e-conferencing.

I hope my request would be considered.

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
> Hi, Marc
> I just caught up with this message, and I think I speak for several CS
> groups in saying that this is just not the way we ought to be going
> about constructing a joint, unified civil society presence in OECD.
>
> The document was not developed on the public Wiki that you (EPIC)
> yourself created; it ignores the output of a collective meeting of the
> involved CS groups in Geneva; it unilaterally declares your own
> organization the "Secretariat" without any process for gaining the
> consent of other civil society organizations. And releasing a proposal
> one day before you discuss it on a call is bizarre and minimizes the
> opportunity for actual participation and acceptance.
>
> So I won't be on that call and don't think anyone else outside EPIC will
> be, either.
>
> Let me know when ya'll decide that this is about civil society and more
> than just EPIC.
>
> --MM
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: coalition-bounces at mailman.epic.org [mailto:coalition-
>> bounces at mailman.epic.org] On Behalf Of Marc Rotenberg
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:08 AM
>> To: coalition at mailman.thepublicvoice.org
>> Subject: [Coalition] Civil Society Information Society Advisory
>> Council(CSISAC) Charter
>>
>> Friends,
>>
>> Drawing on the comments that were submitted to the Public Voice list,
>> the various meetings that took place in Seoul in June, and the
>> subsequent meetings with the OECD in Geneva and Washington, we have
> put
>> together a proposal for the OECD Secretariat for the "Civil Society
>> Information Society Advisory Council (CSISAC).
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>



-- 

Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Thu Oct 23 06:42:16 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 03:42:16 -0700
Subject: [governance] IGF Remote Hub Creation Process for remote 
References: <701af9f70810232200v40526824gc3d390b032bbb24d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49005508.98E9E7BE@ix.netcom.com>

Fouad and all,

  Well I'm not giving my address to anyone unless I have a
privacy agreement in advance that suits me.

Fouad Bajwa wrote:

> Dear IG Caucus Members, the following is the process for creating IGF
> Remote Hubs for your countries as forwarded by Chengetai Masango at
> the Secretariat of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF):
>
> In order to become an approved Remote Hub you have to register with
> the IGF Secretariat. You can do this by sending an email to
> igf at unog.ch and cmasango at unog.ch, providing the Secretariat with the
> following information:
>
> A. Firstly, we need to know a bit about you (we will not publish this
> information):
> 1. The organization you are with:
> 2. A brief summary of your involvement and experience in Internet
> governance (IG) issues: (including other IG related events you have
> been involved with).
> 3. Full contact information (address, email, phone number)
>
> B. Information that will go up on our website once the hub is approved:
> 1. Institution were the hub will be based:
> 2. Possible area(s) of interest within the 5 main themes:
> 3. Number of expected participants within the hub:
> 4. Planned pre-meeting activities:
> 5. Contact person:
> 6. Contact email:
>
> Best regards,
>
> Chengetai Masango
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Programme and Technology Manager
> Secretariat of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF)
> Bocage Annex
> Palais des Nations
> CH - 1211 Genève 10
> e-mail: cmasango at unog.ch
> Tel : +41(0)22 917 57 68
> Fax : +41(0)22 917 00 92
>
> --
>
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Fri Oct 24 06:12:28 2008
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (rafik dammak)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:12:28 +0200
Subject: [governance] IGF Remote Hub Creation Process for remote
In-Reply-To: <49005508.98E9E7BE@ix.netcom.com>
References: <701af9f70810232200v40526824gc3d390b032bbb24d@mail.gmail.com>
	 <49005508.98E9E7BE@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <bbd2a2cd0810240312v7494066bq5ad6bffa73e83f58@mail.gmail.com>

hello,

are you really willing to setup hub?

Regards

Rafik




On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams <
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Fouad and all,
>
>  Well I'm not giving my address to anyone unless I have a
> privacy agreement in advance that suits me.
>
> Fouad Bajwa wrote:
>
> > Dear IG Caucus Members, the following is the process for creating IGF
> > Remote Hubs for your countries as forwarded by Chengetai Masango at
> > the Secretariat of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF):
> >
> > In order to become an approved Remote Hub you have to register with
> > the IGF Secretariat. You can do this by sending an email to
> > igf at unog.ch and cmasango at unog.ch, providing the Secretariat with the
> > following information:
> >
> > A. Firstly, we need to know a bit about you (we will not publish this
> > information):
> > 1. The organization you are with:
> > 2. A brief summary of your involvement and experience in Internet
> > governance (IG) issues: (including other IG related events you have
> > been involved with).
> > 3. Full contact information (address, email, phone number)
> >
> > B. Information that will go up on our website once the hub is approved:
> > 1. Institution were the hub will be based:
> > 2. Possible area(s) of interest within the 5 main themes:
> > 3. Number of expected participants within the hub:
> > 4. Planned pre-meeting activities:
> > 5. Contact person:
> > 6. Contact email:
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Chengetai Masango
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Programme and Technology Manager
> > Secretariat of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF)
> > Bocage Annex
> > Palais des Nations
> > CH - 1211 Genève 10
> > e-mail: cmasango at unog.ch
> > Tel : +41(0)22 917 57 68
> > Fax : +41(0)22 917 00 92
> >
> > --
> >
> > Regards.
> > --------------------------
> > Fouad Bajwa
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> Regards,
>
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>   Abraham Lincoln
>
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
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From isolatedn at gmail.com  Fri Oct 24 06:24:41 2008
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:54:41 +0530
Subject: [governance] RE: [Coalition] Civil Society Information Society
 Advisory Council(CSISAC) Charter
In-Reply-To: <701af9f70810232247raf06135nb4642f080dc51b8a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3699C01E-E582-49A4-8EF0-7179A13B6780@epic.org>
	 <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9B81@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu>
	 <701af9f70810232247raf06135nb4642f080dc51b8a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fecfce260810240324m75ea559fpa95aa6675223a45f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello

I can't find the original mail from Marc.  Can a link to the document
created by EPIC be posted here for comments please?

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
India
-- 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy



On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Marc and Milton,
>
> Can such proposals and documents also be shared with us who
> participated and intervened during the OECD Ministerial with the Civil
> Society Group and signed the CS Seoul Declaration?
>
> I feel that maybe due to my own lack of direct contact with the group,
> I may have been left out. As we also represent a number of groups that
> have been keenly following the process of inclusion of CS in the OECD
> process, I would like us to be included into the mailing list on which
> such discussions are taking place.
>
> Regarding skype calls and participation, in a country like mine
> Pakistan, where we have an economic, energy and stability crisis, with
> only 8-10 hours of electricity to carry out communication and respond
> to these activities, there should be a mailing list for
> e-conferencing.
>
> I hope my request would be considered.
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>> Hi, Marc
>> I just caught up with this message, and I think I speak for several CS
>> groups in saying that this is just not the way we ought to be going
>> about constructing a joint, unified civil society presence in OECD.
>>
>> The document was not developed on the public Wiki that you (EPIC)
>> yourself created; it ignores the output of a collective meeting of the
>> involved CS groups in Geneva; it unilaterally declares your own
>> organization the "Secretariat" without any process for gaining the
>> consent of other civil society organizations. And releasing a proposal
>> one day before you discuss it on a call is bizarre and minimizes the
>> opportunity for actual participation and acceptance.
>>
>> So I won't be on that call and don't think anyone else outside EPIC will
>> be, either.
>>
>> Let me know when ya'll decide that this is about civil society and more
>> than just EPIC.
>>
>> --MM
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: coalition-bounces at mailman.epic.org [mailto:coalition-
>>> bounces at mailman.epic.org] On Behalf Of Marc Rotenberg
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:08 AM
>>> To: coalition at mailman.thepublicvoice.org
>>> Subject: [Coalition] Civil Society Information Society Advisory
>>> Council(CSISAC) Charter
>>>
>>> Friends,
>>>
>>> Drawing on the comments that were submitted to the Public Voice list,
>>> the various meetings that took place in Seoul in June, and the
>>> subsequent meetings with the OECD in Geneva and Washington, we have
>> put
>>> together a proposal for the OECD Secretariat for the "Civil Society
>>> Information Society Advisory Council (CSISAC).
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
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>
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From nyangkweagien at gmail.com  Fri Oct 24 06:31:46 2008
From: nyangkweagien at gmail.com (Nyangkwe Agien Aaron)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:31:46 +0200
Subject: [governance] RE: [Coalition] Civil Society Information Society
 Advisory Council(CSISAC) Charter
In-Reply-To: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9B81@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu>
References: <3699C01E-E582-49A4-8EF0-7179A13B6780@epic.org>
	 <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9B81@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu>
Message-ID: <a6bc8cb30810240331j6848bc40n292279e8aafb76af@mail.gmail.com>

Milton wrote
"it ignores the output of a collective meeting of the
involved CS groups in Geneva; it unilaterally declares your own
organization the "Secretariat"
That is gross unilateralism. And we are all witnesses to the negative
effects  of unilateral actions in global affairs.
It is my humble opinion that proponents of solo actions do that in a solo
manner without alluding to CS groups.

Thank you Milton for that rminder

Aaron

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:

> Hi, Marc
> I just caught up with this message, and I think I speak for several CS
> groups in saying that this is just not the way we ought to be going
> about constructing a joint, unified civil society presence in OECD.
>
> The document was not developed on the public Wiki that you (EPIC)
> yourself created; it ignores the output of a collective meeting of the
> involved CS groups in Geneva; it unilaterally declares your own
> organization the "Secretariat" without any process for gaining the
> consent of other civil society organizations. And releasing a proposal
> one day before you discuss it on a call is bizarre and minimizes the
> opportunity for actual participation and acceptance.
>
> So I won't be on that call and don't think anyone else outside EPIC will
> be, either.
>
> Let me know when ya'll decide that this is about civil society and more
> than just EPIC.
>
> --MM
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: coalition-bounces at mailman.epic.org [mailto:coalition-
> > bounces at mailman.epic.org] On Behalf Of Marc Rotenberg
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:08 AM
> > To: coalition at mailman.thepublicvoice.org
> > Subject: [Coalition] Civil Society Information Society Advisory
> > Council(CSISAC) Charter
> >
> > Friends,
> >
> > Drawing on the comments that were submitted to the Public Voice list,
> > the various meetings that took place in Seoul in June, and the
> > subsequent meetings with the OECD in Geneva and Washington, we have
> put
> > together a proposal for the OECD Secretariat for the "Civil Society
> > Information Society Advisory Council (CSISAC).
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>



-- 
Aaron Agien Nyangkwe
Journalist/Outcome Mapper
Special Assistant To The President
Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team.
ASAFE
P.O.Box 5213
Douala-Cameroon
Tel. 237 3337 55 31
Cell Phone: 237 79 34 21 32
Fax. 237 3342 29 70
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Fri Oct 24 06:50:29 2008
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:50:29 +0500
Subject: [governance] IGF Remote Hub Creation Process for remote
In-Reply-To: <49005508.98E9E7BE@ix.netcom.com>
References: <701af9f70810232200v40526824gc3d390b032bbb24d@mail.gmail.com>
	 <49005508.98E9E7BE@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <701af9f70810240350l3d517943w943dc37b226ed0c8@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jeffrey,

You are free to forward your concerns upon rights of privacy to the
IGF Secretariat and the members are in the CC section of this message.
I too am just a Civil Society representative like you.

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams
<jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Fouad and all,
>
>  Well I'm not giving my address to anyone unless I have a
> privacy agreement in advance that suits me.
>
> Fouad Bajwa wrote:
>
>> Dear IG Caucus Members, the following is the process for creating IGF
>> Remote Hubs for your countries as forwarded by Chengetai Masango at
>> the Secretariat of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF):
>>
>> In order to become an approved Remote Hub you have to register with
>> the IGF Secretariat. You can do this by sending an email to
>> igf at unog.ch and cmasango at unog.ch, providing the Secretariat with the
>> following information:
>>
>> A. Firstly, we need to know a bit about you (we will not publish this
>> information):
>> 1. The organization you are with:
>> 2. A brief summary of your involvement and experience in Internet
>> governance (IG) issues: (including other IG related events you have
>> been involved with).
>> 3. Full contact information (address, email, phone number)
>>
>> B. Information that will go up on our website once the hub is approved:
>> 1. Institution were the hub will be based:
>> 2. Possible area(s) of interest within the 5 main themes:
>> 3. Number of expected participants within the hub:
>> 4. Planned pre-meeting activities:
>> 5. Contact person:
>> 6. Contact email:
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Chengetai Masango
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Programme and Technology Manager
>> Secretariat of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF)
>> Bocage Annex
>> Palais des Nations
>> CH - 1211 Genève 10
>> e-mail: cmasango at unog.ch
>> Tel : +41(0)22 917 57 68
>> Fax : +41(0)22 917 00 92
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards.
>> --------------------------
>> Fouad Bajwa
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> Regards,
>
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>   Abraham Lincoln
>
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>



-- 

Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
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From yehudakatz at mailinator.com  Fri Oct 24 12:19:59 2008
From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 09:19:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] Woman arrested for killing virtual husband in Maple
 Story
Message-ID: <sympa.1224865098.13405.95@lists.cpsr.org>

Woman arrested for killing virtual husband in Maple Story
By Nico Hines
Times Online
October 23, 2008

Art. Ref.:
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article5002721.ece

Print:
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article5002721.ece?print=yes&randnum=1224864721388

-

Woman arrested for killing virtual husband in Maple Story

The brightly-coloured, escapist world of Maple Story has been tainted by
intrigue and scandal. A Japanese piano teacher has been arrested for the murder
of her virtual husband after an abrupt but messy online divorce. 

The 43-year-old from Kyushu province in southern Japan faces a maximum sentence
of five years in jail if she is found guilty of killing off her digital
partner. 

She is accused of hacking into the profile of a 33-year-old office worker from
Sapporo 620 miles away, whose avatar on the Maple Story computer game was
married to her character until he unexpectedly demanded a divorce. 

The spurned make-believe wife was so angry at being jilted that she logged into
the game using her partner’s password and destroyed the character that he had
spent a year creating. 

She was arrested at home in Miyazaki yesterday on suspicion of illegal access
on a computer and manipulating electronic data, according to police in Sapporo
where she is being detained. The woman has not been formally charged. If
convicted she could be jailed or fined up to £3,100. 

An official in northern Sapporo reported that she confessed to the crime when
questioned, allegedly telling police: “I was suddenly divorced, without a
word of warning. That made me so angry.” 

The woman had not plotted any revenge in the real world, the official said. 

Players in Maple Story raise and manipulate digital images called avatars that
represent themselves, while engaging in relationships, social activities and
fighting against monsters and other obstacles. 

Avatars and accounts on games such as Maple Story, World of Warcraft or Second
Life can be worth hundreds of pounds as people attempt to cut out the laborious
process of creating their own characters. 

There have been reports of cottage industries in Asia where low-paid workers
are employed to spend all day inhabiting the virtual worlds to create avatars
that can then be sold online. 

Some games also use virtual currencies, which in the online games-enthusiast
market, come to have a real value as they are bought and sold on websites all
over the world. 

Tokyo police have previously arrested a 16-year-old boy on charges of
fraudulently obtaining virtual currency worth £223,495 in an interactive role
playing game by manipulating another player’s portfolio using a stolen ID and
password. 

---
End 

-30-____________________________________________________________
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Thu Oct 23 21:07:25 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:07:25 -0700
Subject: [governance] IGF Remote Hub Creation Process for remote
References: <701af9f70810232200v40526824gc3d390b032bbb24d@mail.gmail.com>
		<49005508.98E9E7BE@ix.netcom.com> <bbd2a2cd0810240312v7494066bq5ad6bffa73e83f58@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49011FCD.EB2BFC38@ix.netcom.com>

Fafik and all,

  I never said I was willing to.  But beyond that, I don't see
why a hub is necessary technically speaking...

rafik dammak wrote:

> hello,
>
> are you really willing to setup hub?
>
> Regards
>
> Rafik
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Jeffrey A.
> Williams <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>      Fouad and all,
>
>       Well I'm not giving my address to anyone unless I have a
>      privacy agreement in advance that suits me.
>
>      Fouad Bajwa wrote:
>
>      > Dear IG Caucus Members, the following is the process for
>      creating IGF
>      > Remote Hubs for your countries as forwarded by Chengetai
>      Masango at
>      > the Secretariat of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF):
>      >
>      > In order to become an approved Remote Hub you have to
>      register with
>      > the IGF Secretariat. You can do this by sending an email
>      to
>      > igf at unog.ch and cmasango at unog.ch, providing the
>      Secretariat with the
>      > following information:
>      >
>      > A. Firstly, we need to know a bit about you (we will not
>      publish this
>      > information):
>      > 1. The organization you are with:
>      > 2. A brief summary of your involvement and experience in
>      Internet
>      > governance (IG) issues: (including other IG related events
>      you have
>      > been involved with).
>      > 3. Full contact information (address, email, phone number)
>
>      >
>      > B. Information that will go up on our website once the hub
>      is approved:
>      > 1. Institution were the hub will be based:
>      > 2. Possible area(s) of interest within the 5 main themes:
>      > 3. Number of expected participants within the hub:
>      > 4. Planned pre-meeting activities:
>      > 5. Contact person:
>      > 6. Contact email:
>      >
>      > Best regards,
>      >
>      > Chengetai Masango
>      >
>      > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>      > Programme and Technology Manager
>      > Secretariat of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF)
>      > Bocage Annex
>      > Palais des Nations
>      > CH - 1211 Genève 10
>      > e-mail: cmasango at unog.ch
>      > Tel : +41(0)22 917 57 68
>      > Fax : +41(0)22 917 00 92
>      >
>      > --
>      >
>      > Regards.
>      > --------------------------
>      > Fouad Bajwa
>      >
>      ____________________________________________________________
>
>      > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>      > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>      >
>      > For all list information and functions, see:
>      >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>      Regards,
>
>      Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k
>      members/stakeholders strong!)
>      "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>        Abraham Lincoln
>
>      "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with
>      what is
>      very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>
>      "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the
>      burden, B;
>      liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied
>      by
>      P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
>      United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir.
>      1947]
>      =====
>      =========================================================
>      Updated 1/26/04
>      CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data
>      security IDNS.
>      div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
>      ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
>      jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
>      My Phone: 214-244-4827
>
>      ____________________________________________________________
>
>      You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>          governance at lists.cpsr.org
>      To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>          governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
>      For all list information and functions, see:
>          http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827




____________________________________________________________
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Thu Oct 23 21:12:38 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:12:38 -0700
Subject: [governance] IGF Remote Hub Creation Process for remote
References: <701af9f70810232200v40526824gc3d390b032bbb24d@mail.gmail.com>
		 <49005508.98E9E7BE@ix.netcom.com> <701af9f70810240350l3d517943w943dc37b226ed0c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49012106.219607CE@ix.netcom.com>

Fouad and all,

  Why should I do so?  Either the secretariat recognizes the missive
and lack of personal privacy and security or doesn't.  Seems that
the latter is already so.  I am doubtful I can change the secretariat's
mind.  What's worse IMHO, if an Internet Bill of Rights is to ever
get recognized privacy and personal security would most definately
need to be one or it's cornerstones.

Fouad Bajwa wrote:

> Dear Jeffrey,
>
> You are free to forward your concerns upon rights of privacy to the
> IGF Secretariat and the members are in the CC section of this message.
> I too am just a Civil Society representative like you.
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams
> <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > Fouad and all,
> >
> >  Well I'm not giving my address to anyone unless I have a
> > privacy agreement in advance that suits me.
> >
> > Fouad Bajwa wrote:
> >
> >> Dear IG Caucus Members, the following is the process for creating IGF
> >> Remote Hubs for your countries as forwarded by Chengetai Masango at
> >> the Secretariat of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF):
> >>
> >> In order to become an approved Remote Hub you have to register with
> >> the IGF Secretariat. You can do this by sending an email to
> >> igf at unog.ch and cmasango at unog.ch, providing the Secretariat with the
> >> following information:
> >>
> >> A. Firstly, we need to know a bit about you (we will not publish this
> >> information):
> >> 1. The organization you are with:
> >> 2. A brief summary of your involvement and experience in Internet
> >> governance (IG) issues: (including other IG related events you have
> >> been involved with).
> >> 3. Full contact information (address, email, phone number)
> >>
> >> B. Information that will go up on our website once the hub is approved:
> >> 1. Institution were the hub will be based:
> >> 2. Possible area(s) of interest within the 5 main themes:
> >> 3. Number of expected participants within the hub:
> >> 4. Planned pre-meeting activities:
> >> 5. Contact person:
> >> 6. Contact email:
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Chengetai Masango
> >>
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> Programme and Technology Manager
> >> Secretariat of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF)
> >> Bocage Annex
> >> Palais des Nations
> >> CH - 1211 Genève 10
> >> e-mail: cmasango at unog.ch
> >> Tel : +41(0)22 917 57 68
> >> Fax : +41(0)22 917 00 92
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Regards.
> >> --------------------------
> >> Fouad Bajwa
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>
> >> For all list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >   Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >
> > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > ===============================================================
> > Updated 1/26/04
> > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
>
> --
>
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com  Sun Oct 26 10:30:20 2008
From: ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com (linda misek-falkoff)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:30:20 -0400
Subject: [governance] Please expand list of sponsors and adjust listings
 and email lists. Thank you!
Message-ID: <45ed74050810260730t76978549l6b807870846a1e@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Andrea and Group,

Greetings and sending best wishes,


It is good to see the access for all -  and highlighting Persons with
Disabilities - programs developing, and the list of sponsors for the next
IGF.  It promises to be a fine set of events, and we surely would wish to be
a part of the pre discussions, events, and ongoing.


But please, we should be included as having signed up (we thought) early,
and also Sylvia said she was
going to be doing some registrations, so you might check with her for some
emphasis on  inclusion.

The 3 entities are as follows:

- *Respectful Interfaces* Programme of the Communications Coordination
Committee For the U.N.

-  International Disability Caucus ITC Task Force.

 -  and Individual: Dr. Linda D. Misek-Falkoff

Also, if you wish you might also add: The National Disability Party, and
Persons With Pain International. (CCC/UN and PWPI Accredited to the CRPD
proceedings throughout.

For all such, we will be delighted to sign up again for the Dynamic
Coalition if that will be helpful!



As... of course we are in support, and would like to be in all the
conversations including program planning and development.



At your service as well, from a thankfully less chilly NY State,


LDMF

-- 
Dr. Linda D. Misek-Falkoff (Ph.D., J.D..)
Individual Email.

For i.d. only (update, to be embedded soon by LINKS)::
Communications Coordination Committee for the U.N.
Persons with Pain International.
National Disability Party, International Disability Alliance.
World Summit on Information Society, Internet Governance Forum, Computers
Freedom and Privacy -Onsite and Web participant; Human Rights working
groups..
Timeline Items, links to be provided:
1960's Innovator, Computers in Education, Text Processing and Analysis;
Automated, Thematic Apperception Test (T.A.T)., Creator, Context Concordance
to John Milton's Paradise Lost -  precursed Bible Concordances and related
computational theory and practice...
1970 ff first full time faculty member in liberal-arts based Computer
Science Studies; Vassar College; Computers in Education, Literature,
Psychology, Law, Medicine; generally.
1981 Co-Chair, Intl. Conference on Software Engineering and Software
Metrics...
1991 Research Asst.Prof. Blaine Sloan 'U.N. G.A. Resolutions in Our Changing
World'..
2000's Internet Law - Cyberlibel, Human Rights,social and values
implications..
2002 ff full participation, 'Convention on the Rights of Persons With
Disabilities.
2007 Nominee: Global Alliance for ICT Strategy Council.
Other Affiliations on Request
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From mariliamaciel at gmail.com  Sun Oct 26 11:10:02 2008
From: mariliamaciel at gmail.com (Marilia Maciel)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:10:02 -0200
Subject: [governance] IGF Remote Hub Creation Process for remote
Message-ID: <f7e605ab0810260810v2e271aa2w33cec3106bb5831@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jeffrey and all,

I can see several reasons for you (and us all who are concerned) to get
involved in this matter. First of all, the hubs are a bottom up proposal,
that genuinely comes from civil society. Any action that helps to improve it
and move it forward helps the empowerment of civil society as a whole and to
move us towards a more balanced IG debate.

Secondly, the hubs aim to include people that would otherwise be excluded
from the IGF Hyderabad debate: people that are not able to cover travel
expenses, academic communities, individuals, etc. The idea is that these
hubs go even further, and serve as a starting point to a (necessary)
discussion of the IGF debates from a local perspective.

Thirdly, I believe that a project with this scope and that has been proposed
by civil society should not be ignored by the community on this list and
"conveniently" be left to the sole responsibility of the Secretariat. Each
of us should be interested to improve this project not only as possible
future users of remote channels of participation, but also as a concerned
and united community that helps one another initiatives.

Your concern about privacy is legitimate and it would be very valuable to
count on your support and expertise to suggest improvements. Btw, anyone
interested on the project can join a discussion list in
http://intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/rpg_hyd_intgovforum.org

Best regards

Marília Maciel

Civil Society- Remote Participation Working Group
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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Sun Oct 26 12:10:02 2008
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:10:02 +0500
Subject: [governance] IGF Remote Hub Creation Process for remote
In-Reply-To: <f7e605ab0810260810v2e271aa2w33cec3106bb5831@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f7e605ab0810260810v2e271aa2w33cec3106bb5831@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <701af9f70810260910g1904e35bo65495422e8b2903b@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All and especially Jeffrey,

I would like to agree with Marília, not that since I started all this
discussion on the remote hub creation but for the fact that Civil
Society participation in the IGF process is very crucial for the
successful governance of the Internet and that all these groups have
advocated for equal and open inclusion for many years.

Now we are bound by hard economic times and lack of financial support
and the Remote Hub activity formulated by Marília and team members,
whom by the way are all from Civil Society, have somewhat provided an
evident solution to partially overcome the barrier of participation.

I have been unable to understand your reaction to this possibility as
well as the concern for privacy if was such a big concern, it would
have hurdled your participation in many things related to the process
of IG and so forth.

Kindly all keep a cool mind, you are free to participate and if you
decide not to participate, no one is pushing anyone. These are civil
society members proposing solutions.

For our participation, this seems as a very useful tool, it may not be
possibly so by others..............probably.

On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 8:10 PM, Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Jeffrey and all,
>
> I can see several reasons for you (and us all who are concerned) to get
> involved in this matter. First of all, the hubs are a bottom up proposal,
> that genuinely comes from civil society. Any action that helps to improve it
> and move it forward helps the empowerment of civil society as a whole and to
> move us towards a more balanced IG debate.
>
> Secondly, the hubs aim to include people that would otherwise be excluded
> from the IGF Hyderabad debate: people that are not able to cover travel
> expenses, academic communities, individuals, etc. The idea is that these
> hubs go even further, and serve as a starting point to a (necessary)
> discussion of the IGF debates from a local perspective.
>
> Thirdly, I believe that a project with this scope and that has been proposed
> by civil society should not be ignored by the community on this list and
> "conveniently" be left to the sole responsibility of the Secretariat. Each
> of us should be interested to improve this project not only as possible
> future users of remote channels of participation, but also as a concerned
> and united community that helps one another initiatives.
>
> Your concern about privacy is legitimate and it would be very valuable to
> count on your support and expertise to suggest improvements. Btw, anyone
> interested on the project can join a discussion list in
> http://intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/rpg_hyd_intgovforum.org
>
> Best regards
>
> Marília Maciel
>
> Civil Society- Remote Participation Working Group
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>



-- 

Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
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From pbateman.igov at gmail.com  Sun Oct 26 13:35:26 2008
From: pbateman.igov at gmail.com (Paddy bateman)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:35:26 +0100
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
Message-ID: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com>

For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff Williams,
please consider that his only role in the Internet community is as a
longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past decade.
It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping this list
useful is to completely ignore his posts.

For more background information, see here:
http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html

And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask him
where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup LLA", the
imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If INEGroup LLA
actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would think
there might be some public information available. You'd also think that one
or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.

He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do not need
his distractions.

-pb
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sat Oct 25 20:53:08 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:53:08 -0700
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
References: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4903BF74.3B763E2C@ix.netcom.com>

Paddy or whomever you are, and all,

  Frankly I don't know this person Paddy, but whatever his personal
problems are, they don't seem to belong on this forum.

Paddy bateman wrote:

> For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff
> Williams, please consider that his only role in the Internet community
> is as a longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
> Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past
> decade. It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping
> this list useful is to completely ignore his posts.
>
> For more background information, see here:
> http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
>
> And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
> probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask
> him where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup
> LLA", the imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If
> INEGroup LLA actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
> members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would
> think there might be some public information available. You'd also
> think that one or two of those members might be willing to identify
> themselves.
>
> He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do
> not need his distractions.
>
> -pb
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sat Oct 25 21:11:33 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:11:33 -0700
Subject: [governance] IGF Remote Hub Creation Process for remote
References: <f7e605ab0810260810v2e271aa2w33cec3106bb5831@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4903C3C4.CD900E70@ix.netcom.com>

Marilia and all,

  Hubs, whether a bottoms up proposal or not, has little to do with
the huge and expanding problem of IDtheft due to poor security
for such hubs being provided for remote participants to be reasonably
assured that they will not be victimized by the many miscreants that
frequently use such temporary remote participant endeavors for various
forms of inappropriate or illegal and personal damaging intrusion
activity.

  Whomever is going to provide such Hubs for such a remote
participation,
should be required to take already known steps to ensure that the
available
security and privacy protection is implemented, or do not offer the
temporary
service at all as to do so would be irresponsible, and may in some
jurisdictions,
be illegal at worst, are entirely improper and inconsiderate at best.

  As for the financial hard times we all are currently suffering under,
due
to a very great extent the global financial cirsis, and such as to
related to
remote participation for IGF, perhaps whomever is the appropriate
person could contact the IMF in the IGC's behalf for a loan to be able
to be used for providing funding for such efforts now, and longer term?

  Does anyone know what exactly the curent financial status of the IGC
is at present?  Is that information in very general numbers posted
anywhere?  What are the current sources of funding for the IGC?

Marilia Maciel wrote:

> Dear Jeffrey and all,
>
> I can see several reasons for you (and us all who are concerned) to
> get involved in this matter. First of all, the hubs are a bottom up
> proposal, that genuinely comes from civil society. Any action that
> helps to improve it and move it forward helps the empowerment of civil
> society as a whole and to move us towards a more balanced IG debate.
>
> Secondly, the hubs aim to include people that would otherwise be
> excluded from the IGF Hyderabad debate: people that are not able to
> cover travel expenses, academic communities, individuals, etc. The
> idea is that these hubs go even further, and serve as a starting point
> to a (necessary) discussion of the IGF debates from a local
> perspective.
>
> Thirdly, I believe that a project with this scope and that has been
> proposed by civil society should not be ignored by the community on
> this list and "conveniently" be left to the sole responsibility of the
> Secretariat. Each of us should be interested to improve this project
> not only as possible future users of remote channels of participation,
> but also as a concerned and united community that helps one another
> initiatives.
>
> Your concern about privacy is legitimate and it would be very valuable
> to count on your support and expertise to suggest improvements. Btw,
> anyone interested on the project can join a discussion list
> in http://intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/rpg_hyd_intgovforum.org
>
> Best regards
>
> Marília Maciel
>
> Civil Society- Remote Participation Working Group
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827




____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From peter at peter-dambier.de  Sun Oct 26 19:23:49 2008
From: peter at peter-dambier.de (Peter Dambier)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 00:23:49 +0100
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
In-Reply-To: <4903BF74.3B763E2C@ix.netcom.com>
References: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com> <4903BF74.3B763E2C@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <4904FC05.40803@peter-dambier.de>

Just for the curious

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Bateman

a fictional person after all.

Kind regards
Peter


Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> Paddy or whomever you are, and all,
> 
>   Frankly I don't know this person Paddy, but whatever his personal
> problems are, they don't seem to belong on this forum.
> 
> Paddy bateman wrote:
> 
>> For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff
>> Williams, please consider that his only role in the Internet community
>> is as a longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
>> Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past
>> decade. It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping
>> this list useful is to completely ignore his posts.
>>
>> For more background information, see here:
>> http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
>>
>> And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
>> probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask
>> him where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup
>> LLA", the imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If
>> INEGroup LLA actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
>> members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would
>> think there might be some public information available. You'd also
>> think that one or two of those members might be willing to identify
>> themselves.
>>
>> He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do
>> not need his distractions.
>>
>> -pb
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> Regards,
> 
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>    Abraham Lincoln
> 
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> 
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
>  
>  
>  
> 

-- 
Peter and Karin Dambier
Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
Rimbacher Strasse 16
D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
+49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
+49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
http://www.peter-dambier.de/
http://iason.site.voila.fr/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
____________________________________________________________
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sat Oct 25 21:15:40 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:15:40 -0700
Subject: [governance] IGF Remote Hub Creation Process for remote
References: <f7e605ab0810260810v2e271aa2w33cec3106bb5831@mail.gmail.com> <701af9f70810260910g1904e35bo65495422e8b2903b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4903C4BC.FE062EDE@ix.netcom.com>

Fouad and all,

  I believe it is broadly considered that to be able to participate
via any networked method, privacy and security are basic to
civility.  And to be denied same simply because such is not
provided by whomever is stting up these proposed Hubs is
fundementally irresponsible, potentialy, if not likely, very
dangerous as well...

Fouad Bajwa wrote:

> Dear All and especially Jeffrey,
>
> I would like to agree with Marília, not that since I started all this
> discussion on the remote hub creation but for the fact that Civil
> Society participation in the IGF process is very crucial for the
> successful governance of the Internet and that all these groups have
> advocated for equal and open inclusion for many years.
>
> Now we are bound by hard economic times and lack of financial support
> and the Remote Hub activity formulated by Marília and team members,
> whom by the way are all from Civil Society, have somewhat provided an
> evident solution to partially overcome the barrier of participation.
>
> I have been unable to understand your reaction to this possibility as
> well as the concern for privacy if was such a big concern, it would
> have hurdled your participation in many things related to the process
> of IG and so forth.
>
> Kindly all keep a cool mind, you are free to participate and if you
> decide not to participate, no one is pushing anyone. These are civil
> society members proposing solutions.
>
> For our participation, this seems as a very useful tool, it may not be
> possibly so by others..............probably.
>
> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 8:10 PM, Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear Jeffrey and all,
> >
> > I can see several reasons for you (and us all who are concerned) to get
> > involved in this matter. First of all, the hubs are a bottom up proposal,
> > that genuinely comes from civil society. Any action that helps to improve it
> > and move it forward helps the empowerment of civil society as a whole and to
> > move us towards a more balanced IG debate.
> >
> > Secondly, the hubs aim to include people that would otherwise be excluded
> > from the IGF Hyderabad debate: people that are not able to cover travel
> > expenses, academic communities, individuals, etc. The idea is that these
> > hubs go even further, and serve as a starting point to a (necessary)
> > discussion of the IGF debates from a local perspective.
> >
> > Thirdly, I believe that a project with this scope and that has been proposed
> > by civil society should not be ignored by the community on this list and
> > "conveniently" be left to the sole responsibility of the Secretariat. Each
> > of us should be interested to improve this project not only as possible
> > future users of remote channels of participation, but also as a concerned
> > and united community that helps one another initiatives.
> >
> > Your concern about privacy is legitimate and it would be very valuable to
> > count on your support and expertise to suggest improvements. Btw, anyone
> > interested on the project can join a discussion list in
> > http://intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/rpg_hyd_intgovforum.org
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Marília Maciel
> >
> > Civil Society- Remote Participation Working Group
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827




____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sat Oct 25 21:18:23 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:18:23 -0700
Subject: [governance] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kenya=92s_ICT_players_cautioned_over?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_Internet_security?=
Message-ID: <4903C55F.D731CF77@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  At least Kenya has a clue...

See:
 http://www.ipv6tf.org/index.php?page=news/newsroom&id=4386

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



____________________________________________________________
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sat Oct 25 22:26:41 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:26:41 -0700
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
References: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com> <4903BF74.3B763E2C@ix.netcom.com> <4904FC05.40803@peter-dambier.de>
Message-ID: <4903D560.8496FCAE@ix.netcom.com>

Peter and all,

  Touche!  >:)  Seems some folks are more interested in off
topic and phoney nonsense than reality.  Why?  I haven't
a clue, thankfully.  Maybe it's a sign of the times and recent
events.  Watching C-Span Senate and congressional hearing
often leaves me with the impression that fantasy solutions and
excuses are more important than dealing with the reality in a
steady, comprehensive and realistic way...

Peter Dambier wrote:

> Just for the curious
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Bateman
>
> a fictional person after all.
>
> Kind regards
> Peter
>
> Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> > Paddy or whomever you are, and all,
> >
> >   Frankly I don't know this person Paddy, but whatever his personal
> > problems are, they don't seem to belong on this forum.
> >
> > Paddy bateman wrote:
> >
> >> For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff
> >> Williams, please consider that his only role in the Internet community
> >> is as a longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
> >> Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past
> >> decade. It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping
> >> this list useful is to completely ignore his posts.
> >>
> >> For more background information, see here:
> >> http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
> >>
> >> And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
> >> probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask
> >> him where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup
> >> LLA", the imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If
> >> INEGroup LLA actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
> >> members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would
> >> think there might be some public information available. You'd also
> >> think that one or two of those members might be willing to identify
> >> themselves.
> >>
> >> He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do
> >> not need his distractions.
> >>
> >> -pb
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>
> >> For all list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > Regards,
> >
> > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >    Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >
> > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > ===============================================================
> > Updated 1/26/04
> > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Peter and Karin Dambier
> Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
> Rimbacher Strasse 16
> D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
> +49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
> +49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
> mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
> http://www.peter-dambier.de/
> http://iason.site.voila.fr/
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



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From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au  Sun Oct 26 22:46:01 2008
From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:46:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
Message-ID: <264481.62299.qm@web54111.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Oh "Jeffrey" and "Peter",

Maybe it's the lies, the misrepresentations and inability of certain people such as you "Jeffrey" to verify who they are that gives people the evidence of you being trolls.

That said, it's wonderful how filtering to the spam filter works so I avoid all of the above mentioned guff from the pair of you unless I have some desire to look for it.


And it's interesting you mention "fantasy" below. Sort of like a fantasy world you live in.

David



----- Original Message ----
From: Jeffrey A. Williams <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Peter Dambier <peter at peter-dambier.de>
Sent: Sunday, 26 October, 2008 1:26:41 PM
Subject: Re: [governance] no need to feed the trolls

Peter and all,

  Touche!  >:)  Seems some folks are more interested in off
topic and phoney nonsense than reality.  Why?  I haven't
a clue, thankfully.  Maybe it's a sign of the times and recent
events.  Watching C-Span Senate and congressional hearing
often leaves me with the impression that fantasy solutions and
excuses are more important than dealing with the reality in a
steady, comprehensive and realistic way...

Peter Dambier wrote:

> Just for the curious
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Bateman
>
> a fictional person after all.
>
> Kind regards
> Peter
>
> Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> > Paddy or whomever you are, and all,
> >
> >   Frankly I don't know this person Paddy, but whatever his personal
> > problems are, they don't seem to belong on this forum.
> >
> > Paddy bateman wrote:
> >
> >> For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff
> >> Williams, please consider that his only role in the Internet community
> >> is as a longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
> >> Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past
> >> decade. It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping
> >> this list useful is to completely ignore his posts.
> >>
> >> For more background information, see here:
> >> http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
> >>
> >> And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
> >> probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask
> >> him where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup
> >> LLA", the imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If
> >> INEGroup LLA actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
> >> members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would
> >> think there might be some public information available. You'd also
> >> think that one or two of those members might be willing to identify
> >> themselves.
> >>
> >> He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do
> >> not need his distractions.
> >>
> >> -pb
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>
> >> For all list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > Regards,
> >
> > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >    Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >
> > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > ===============================================================
> > Updated 1/26/04
> > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Peter and Karin Dambier
> Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
> Rimbacher Strasse 16
> D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
> +49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
> +49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
> mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
> http://www.peter-dambier.de/
> http://iason.site.voila.fr/
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



____________________________________________________________
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    governance at lists.cpsr.org
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    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From fouadbajwa at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 00:18:31 2008
From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:18:31 +0500
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
In-Reply-To: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <701af9f70810262118k7a71abe5of6e88c26065bc178@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ian and Parminder,

Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity crisis please?

On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman <pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
> For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff Williams,
> please consider that his only role in the Internet community is as a
> longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
> Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past decade.
> It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping this list
> useful is to completely ignore his posts.
>
> For more background information, see here:
> http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
>
> And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
> probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask him
> where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup LLA", the
> imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If INEGroup LLA
> actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
> members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would think
> there might be some public information available. You'd also think that one
> or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
>
> He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do not need
> his distractions.
>
> -pb
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>



-- 

Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad Bajwa
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 26 03:38:06 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 00:38:06 -0700
Subject: [governance] Regarding Internet Rights: Blogger.com Banned In Turkey
Message-ID: <49041E5D.95E1959F@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  What does this say for a Internet Bill of Rights?  Well, it says
that we have another formidable obstacle to overcome..

See:
"A Turkish court has
http://www.basbasbas.com/blog/2008/10/24/turkey-bans-blogger/
blocked access to the popular blog hosting service Blogger
(Blogger.com and Blogspot.com, owned by Google), since Friday,
October 24th, 2008. According to BasBasBas.com, a Dutch blogger
based in Istanbul, who alerted readers about the issue: 'It is suspected

that the reason for this has something to do with Adnan Oktar, by
some considered the leading Muslim advocate for creationism, who has
in the past managed to get Wordpress, Google Groups, as well as
Richard Dawkins' website [banned].'"

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 26 03:49:06 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 00:49:06 -0700
Subject: [governance] Australian Government Ignoring Problems With Proposed
 Filters
Message-ID: <490420F2.52063731@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  Another earlier reported obstacle for Internet Rights faces it's
own practical problems, yet Australia's "Great Australian Firewall"
government advocators remain undaunted, or should that be stubborn...

  My guess is that those of you that are Gmail and Yahoo users
will be the first to be "Censored"...

See:
an update to the proposed Australian national firewall we discussed
recently. According to the BBC, "The official watchdog, the Australian
Communications and Media Authority (ACMA), has been
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7689964.stm conducting laboratory
tests of six filtering products, and the government plans a live trial
soon. ... After its recent trials, ACMA reported significant 
improvements on earlier studies. The network degradation on one product 
was less than 2%, although two products were in excess of 75%." Now, 
Ars Technica reports that "an Australian newspaper has uncovered
documents showing that the government minister responsible for the 
program has 
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081024-aussie-govt-dont-criticize-our-terrible-net-filters.html
ignored performance and accuracy problems with the filters, then
 http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2008/10/23/1224351430987.html tried
to suppress criticism of the plan by private citizens." The EFA has a
great deal to say in
http://www.efa.org.au/censorship/mandatory-isp-blocking/
opposition of these plans.

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From ajp at glocom.ac.jp  Mon Oct 27 03:37:00 2008
From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:37:00 +0900
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
In-Reply-To: <701af9f70810262118k7a71abe5of6e88c26065bc178@mail.gmail.com>
References: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com>
 <701af9f70810262118k7a71abe5of6e88c26065bc178@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0624080bc52b1887266a@[192.168.1.2]>

>Hi Ian and Parminder,
>
>Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity crisis please?


Why?

Jeff Williams has been posting to ICANN and general Internet lists 
for years. You will find plenty of notes about who he is (or is not) 
and about the claims he makes.

He closes every email with a .sig that's patently untrue.  There is 
no INEGroup LLA, no 281k members/stakeholders.

You judge if you want to bother replying. I'd suggest best just to 
ignore him.  It's not about substance, some of his emails are as sane 
as anyone else's, some are inflammatory, some are just silly. As the 
subject lines suggests it's best not to feed the troll. And to use 
another online cliche... your mileage may vary.

I am not Paddy bateman,, but I agree with his/her comment.

It would also be best not to continue this thread!

Adam



>On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman 
><pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
>  > For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff Williams,
>>  please consider that his only role in the Internet community is as a
>>  longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
>>  Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past decade.
>>  It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping this list
>>  useful is to completely ignore his posts.
>>
>>  For more background information, see here:
>  > http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
>>
>>  And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
>>  probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask him
>>  where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup LLA", the
>>  imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If INEGroup LLA
>>  actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
>>  members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would think
>>  there might be some public information available. You'd also think that one
>>  or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
>>
>>  He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do not need
>>  his distractions.
>>
>>  -pb
>>
>>  ____________________________________________________________
>>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>  To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>>  For all list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>
>Regards.
>--------------------------
>Fouad Bajwa
>____________________________________________________________
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
>For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

____________________________________________________________
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 26 05:52:27 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 02:52:27 -0700
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
References: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <701af9f70810262118k7a71abe5of6e88c26065bc178@mail.gmail.com> <p0624080bc52b1887266a@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <49043DDA.FFE1AAA5@ix.netcom.com>

Adam and all,

  Sorry Adam, your incorrect.  INEGroup is registered and is
filed with the US FEC.  Submitting a FOIA request, which has been
done on several occasions, will give you the factual information
via an independant source that you need or desire.  Further
we are registered with Edgar and DOC/NTIA as of 1998 which
you can check out for yourself if you so choose, also via a
FOIA request as well.  So as always, do your due diligance
if you desire accordingly.

  Sorry everyone else, but Adam is publically here challanging
me and INEGroup, yet he has never submitted the legally proper
FOIA request to be making the FALSE statement he is making
below.  However Adam has had from time to time disagreements
with our members positions and has demonstrated privately
via Email that he has a personal vendetta, as I would and others
whom have reviewed independantly those Email at my request,
discribed such.  This is unfortunate and certainly not any of
my doing.  But if you wish, I can forward those Email to any
of you for your review upon request and a signed non disclosure
agreement if you provide a mailing address or via forward by
Email if you have a valid and up to date, Class 2 cert.

  But Adam is correct about one thing, that member count in
my sig file below, is not fully up to date.  That is simply because
I don't yet have an accurate count, but our membership is now
estimated to be closer to 284,000 members presently.  However
until I recieve an accurate count, I will not be updating my Sig file
to reflect the correct figure accordingly so as not to be misleading.

Adam Peake wrote:

> >Hi Ian and Parminder,
> >
> >Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity crisis please?
>
> Why?
>
> Jeff Williams has been posting to ICANN and general Internet lists
> for years. You will find plenty of notes about who he is (or is not)
> and about the claims he makes.
>
> He closes every email with a .sig that's patently untrue.  There is
> no INEGroup LLA, no 281k members/stakeholders.
>
> You judge if you want to bother replying. I'd suggest best just to
> ignore him.  It's not about substance, some of his emails are as sane
> as anyone else's, some are inflammatory, some are just silly. As the
> subject lines suggests it's best not to feed the troll. And to use
> another online cliche... your mileage may vary.
>
> I am not Paddy bateman,, but I agree with his/her comment.
>
> It would also be best not to continue this thread!
>
> Adam
>
> >On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman
> ><pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
> >  > For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff Williams,
> >>  please consider that his only role in the Internet community is as a
> >>  longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
> >>  Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past decade.
> >>  It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping this list
> >>  useful is to completely ignore his posts.
> >>
> >>  For more background information, see here:
> >  > http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
> >>
> >>  And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
> >>  probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask him
> >>  where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup LLA", the
> >>  imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If INEGroup LLA
> >>  actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
> >>  members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would think
> >>  there might be some public information available. You'd also think that one
> >>  or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
> >>
> >>  He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do not need
> >>  his distractions.
> >>
> >>  -pb
> >>
> >>  ____________________________________________________________
> >>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >>  To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>
> >>  For all list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >Regards.
> >--------------------------
> >Fouad Bajwa
> >____________________________________________________________
> >You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> >For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827




____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


From pbateman.igov at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 04:36:43 2008
From: pbateman.igov at gmail.com (Paddy bateman)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:36:43 +0100
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
Message-ID: <745321aa0810270136x644b199fl3c600a3f2802a05@mail.gmail.com>

And so, exactly as I predicted in my first mail, the Jeff Williams character
has created a lot of noise, has claimed to have been slandered, but
ultimately has failed to provide a link to the INEGroup LLA web site.

So, INEGroup LLA is a major organization, with an interest in the Internet,
but it has no web site. It has more than 280,000 members, but the only one
that has ever come forward is Jeff Williams. And, unlike any other company,
if you want to find out anything about it you need to make a freedom of
information application. Yeah right. I wonder if each of those members had
to lodge an FOI application in order to get a membership form.

Game over.

Sorry to bother you everyone. I just wanted to raise some awareness. I'll
leave this now.

-pb
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From rudi.vansnick at isoc.be  Mon Oct 27 05:57:50 2008
From: rudi.vansnick at isoc.be (Rudi Vansnick)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:57:50 +0100
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
In-Reply-To: <49043DDA.FFE1AAA5@ix.netcom.com>
References: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com>	 <701af9f70810262118k7a71abe5of6e88c26065bc178@mail.gmail.com> <p0624080bc52b1887266a@[192.168.1.2]> <49043DDA.FFE1AAA5@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <4905909E.1080605@isoc.be>

Jeffrey,

If the organisation is real can you please send us the official by laws ?
I would like to know what INEGroup stands for, who the stakeholders are,
who the members are and how I could eventually join the organisation ?

Kind regards,

Rudi Vansnick



Jeffrey A. Williams schreef:
> Adam and all,
>
>   Sorry Adam, your incorrect.  INEGroup is registered and is
> filed with the US FEC.  Submitting a FOIA request, which has been
> done on several occasions, will give you the factual information
> via an independant source that you need or desire.  Further
> we are registered with Edgar and DOC/NTIA as of 1998 which
> you can check out for yourself if you so choose, also via a
> FOIA request as well.  So as always, do your due diligance
> if you desire accordingly.
>
>   Sorry everyone else, but Adam is publically here challanging
> me and INEGroup, yet he has never submitted the legally proper
> FOIA request to be making the FALSE statement he is making
> below.  However Adam has had from time to time disagreements
> with our members positions and has demonstrated privately
> via Email that he has a personal vendetta, as I would and others
> whom have reviewed independantly those Email at my request,
> discribed such.  This is unfortunate and certainly not any of
> my doing.  But if you wish, I can forward those Email to any
> of you for your review upon request and a signed non disclosure
> agreement if you provide a mailing address or via forward by
> Email if you have a valid and up to date, Class 2 cert.
>
>   But Adam is correct about one thing, that member count in
> my sig file below, is not fully up to date.  That is simply because
> I don't yet have an accurate count, but our membership is now
> estimated to be closer to 284,000 members presently.  However
> until I recieve an accurate count, I will not be updating my Sig file
> to reflect the correct figure accordingly so as not to be misleading.
>
> Adam Peake wrote:
>
>   
>>> Hi Ian and Parminder,
>>>
>>> Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity crisis please?
>>>       
>> Why?
>>
>> Jeff Williams has been posting to ICANN and general Internet lists
>> for years. You will find plenty of notes about who he is (or is not)
>> and about the claims he makes.
>>
>> He closes every email with a .sig that's patently untrue.  There is
>> no INEGroup LLA, no 281k members/stakeholders.
>>
>> You judge if you want to bother replying. I'd suggest best just to
>> ignore him.  It's not about substance, some of his emails are as sane
>> as anyone else's, some are inflammatory, some are just silly. As the
>> subject lines suggests it's best not to feed the troll. And to use
>> another online cliche... your mileage may vary.
>>
>> I am not Paddy bateman,, but I agree with his/her comment.
>>
>> It would also be best not to continue this thread!
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>     
>>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman
>>> <pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  > For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff Williams,
>>>       
>>>>  please consider that his only role in the Internet community is as a
>>>>  longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
>>>>  Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past decade.
>>>>  It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping this list
>>>>  useful is to completely ignore his posts.
>>>>
>>>>  For more background information, see here:
>>>>         
>>>  > http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
>>>       
>>>>  And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
>>>>  probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask him
>>>>  where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup LLA", the
>>>>  imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If INEGroup LLA
>>>>  actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
>>>>  members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would think
>>>>  there might be some public information available. You'd also think that one
>>>>  or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
>>>>
>>>>  He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do not need
>>>>  his distractions.
>>>>
>>>>  -pb
>>>>
>>>>  ____________________________________________________________
>>>>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>  To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>
>>>>  For all list information and functions, see:
>>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>> --------------------------
>>> Fouad Bajwa
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>
>>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>>       
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>     
>
> Regards,
>
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>    Abraham Lincoln
>
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1748 - Release Date: 26/10/2008 19:53
>
>   ____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 26 08:05:00 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 05:05:00 -0700
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
References: <745321aa0810270136x644b199fl3c600a3f2802a05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49045CEC.F32C2B0E@ix.netcom.com>

Paddy and all,

  Paddy, what is the purpose of yet again miss characterizing INEGroup,
myself and doing so in such a public way, unless you have some odd,
or weird behavioral problem or some other personally related problem?
And than finally but hardly unbelievably say that your sorry for
bothering
every one!!??  Not believable to me anyway...

  Further what is a "FOI"?  Never heard of it.  Please advise.

  Further still we have some 100+ web sites, most of which are
Extranet sites or IntrAnets.  Do you have some sort of problem with
that?
If so, what is your specific problem with such, Paddy?

Paddy bateman wrote:

> And so, exactly as I predicted in my first mail, the Jeff Williams
> character has created a lot of noise, has claimed to have been
> slandered, but ultimately has failed to provide a link to the INEGroup
> LLA web site.
>
> So, INEGroup LLA is a major organization, with an interest in the
> Internet, but it has no web site. It has more than 280,000 members,
> but the only one that has ever come forward is Jeff Williams. And,
> unlike any other company, if you want to find out anything about it
> you need to make a freedom of information application. Yeah right. I
> wonder if each of those members had to lodge an FOI application in
> order to get a membership form.
>
> Game over.
>
> Sorry to bother you everyone. I just wanted to raise some awareness.
> I'll leave this now.
>
> -pb
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 26 08:32:31 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 05:32:31 -0700
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
References: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com>	
		<701af9f70810262118k7a71abe5of6e88c26065bc178@mail.gmail.com>
		<p0624080bc52b1887266a@[192.168.1.2]>
		<49043DDA.FFE1AAA5@ix.netcom.com> <4905909E.1080605@isoc.be>
Message-ID: <4904635E.43FE0379@ix.netcom.com>

Rudi and all,

  I'll try to answer your inquiry and shall do so this way
in the interest of brevity, modality, and individuals personal
privacy and security:

  INEGroup bylaws are publicly available on Edgar as I
have many times stated over the past 9+ years.  Our members,
are also available via FOIA to the FEC.  I do not have myself
a full list of all of our members as that information at that level
of granularity is not necessary for me to have, nor can I post all
280k+ members to this or any other mailing list due to the shear
size of that list.  Some are even members or your counties ISOC,
even though the ISOC ceased to be a full membership organization
where each member had a voice AND a vote on issues that the
ISOC might take that effects them.  As such, many felt and still
feel they have been effectively disenfranchised accordingly.

  And finally, but very importantly I would not, and by resolution
and many legal structures and jurisdictions, cannot give out members
PII lest I want to be sued, which I do not.  I personally respect individuals
personal privacy even though some organizations only say they do and
some governments, including my own don't always uphold those persons
privacy which is directly related to their security.  Most, if not all or
our members to my knowledge are also members of many other
organizations such as EFF, ISOC, ACLU, Doctors without boarders,
ect., ect., ect...  And all are Domain Name holders.  A few or our
members are Sr. Executives or IAP's ISP's or other types or
telecommunication infrastructure service providers.

  My job as to INEGroup is as spokesman, the messanger/public
voice if you will...  Pretty simple actually.

Rudi Vansnick wrote:

> Jeffrey,
>
> If the organisation is real can you please send us the official by laws ?
> I would like to know what INEGroup stands for, who the stakeholders are,
> who the members are and how I could eventually join the organisation ?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Rudi Vansnick
>
> Jeffrey A. Williams schreef:
> > Adam and all,
> >
> >   Sorry Adam, your incorrect.  INEGroup is registered and is
> > filed with the US FEC.  Submitting a FOIA request, which has been
> > done on several occasions, will give you the factual information
> > via an independant source that you need or desire.  Further
> > we are registered with Edgar and DOC/NTIA as of 1998 which
> > you can check out for yourself if you so choose, also via a
> > FOIA request as well.  So as always, do your due diligance
> > if you desire accordingly.
> >
> >   Sorry everyone else, but Adam is publically here challanging
> > me and INEGroup, yet he has never submitted the legally proper
> > FOIA request to be making the FALSE statement he is making
> > below.  However Adam has had from time to time disagreements
> > with our members positions and has demonstrated privately
> > via Email that he has a personal vendetta, as I would and others
> > whom have reviewed independantly those Email at my request,
> > discribed such.  This is unfortunate and certainly not any of
> > my doing.  But if you wish, I can forward those Email to any
> > of you for your review upon request and a signed non disclosure
> > agreement if you provide a mailing address or via forward by
> > Email if you have a valid and up to date, Class 2 cert.
> >
> >   But Adam is correct about one thing, that member count in
> > my sig file below, is not fully up to date.  That is simply because
> > I don't yet have an accurate count, but our membership is now
> > estimated to be closer to 284,000 members presently.  However
> > until I recieve an accurate count, I will not be updating my Sig file
> > to reflect the correct figure accordingly so as not to be misleading.
> >
> > Adam Peake wrote:
> >
> >
> >>> Hi Ian and Parminder,
> >>>
> >>> Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity crisis please?
> >>>
> >> Why?
> >>
> >> Jeff Williams has been posting to ICANN and general Internet lists
> >> for years. You will find plenty of notes about who he is (or is not)
> >> and about the claims he makes.
> >>
> >> He closes every email with a .sig that's patently untrue.  There is
> >> no INEGroup LLA, no 281k members/stakeholders.
> >>
> >> You judge if you want to bother replying. I'd suggest best just to
> >> ignore him.  It's not about substance, some of his emails are as sane
> >> as anyone else's, some are inflammatory, some are just silly. As the
> >> subject lines suggests it's best not to feed the troll. And to use
> >> another online cliche... your mileage may vary.
> >>
> >> I am not Paddy bateman,, but I agree with his/her comment.
> >>
> >> It would also be best not to continue this thread!
> >>
> >> Adam
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman
> >>> <pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>  > For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff Williams,
> >>>
> >>>>  please consider that his only role in the Internet community is as a
> >>>>  longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
> >>>>  Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past decade.
> >>>>  It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping this list
> >>>>  useful is to completely ignore his posts.
> >>>>
> >>>>  For more background information, see here:
> >>>>
> >>>  > http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
> >>>
> >>>>  And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
> >>>>  probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask him
> >>>>  where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup LLA", the
> >>>>  imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If INEGroup LLA
> >>>>  actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
> >>>>  members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would think
> >>>>  there might be some public information available. You'd also think that one
> >>>>  or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
> >>>>
> >>>>  He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do not need
> >>>>  his distractions.
> >>>>
> >>>>  -pb
> >>>>
> >>>>  ____________________________________________________________
> >>>>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >>>>  To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>>>
> >>>>  For all list information and functions, see:
> >>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Regards.
> >>> --------------------------
> >>> Fouad Bajwa
> >>> ____________________________________________________________
> >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>>
> >>> For all list information and functions, see:
> >>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >>>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>
> >> For all list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >>
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >    Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >
> > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > ===============================================================
> > Updated 1/26/04
> > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1748 - Release Date: 26/10/2008 19:53
> >
> >
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1748 - Release Date: 26/10/2008 19:53

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

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From J.A.K.Cave at warwick.ac.uk  Mon Oct 27 07:00:56 2008
From: J.A.K.Cave at warwick.ac.uk (J.A.K.Cave at warwick.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:00:56 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
In-Reply-To: <49045CEC.F32C2B0E@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.44.0810271100210.11301-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>

Shades of Serdar Argic!

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From jeanette at wzb.eu  Mon Oct 27 07:15:46 2008
From: jeanette at wzb.eu (Jeanette Hofmann)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:15:46 +0000
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
In-Reply-To: <49043DDA.FFE1AAA5@ix.netcom.com>
References: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com>	 <701af9f70810262118k7a71abe5of6e88c26065bc178@mail.gmail.com> <p0624080bc52b1887266a@[192.168.1.2]> <49043DDA.FFE1AAA5@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <4905A2E2.1090007@wzb.eu>

Hi,
the best thing is to filter emails from Jeffrey and ignore him. This 
reduces the noise to those who keep replying to Jeffrey's emails. I have 
been doing this for years and it works well.
jeanette

Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> Adam and all,
> 
>   Sorry Adam, your incorrect.  INEGroup is registered and is
> filed with the US FEC.  Submitting a FOIA request, which has been
> done on several occasions, will give you the factual information
> via an independant source that you need or desire.  Further
> we are registered with Edgar and DOC/NTIA as of 1998 which
> you can check out for yourself if you so choose, also via a
> FOIA request as well.  So as always, do your due diligance
> if you desire accordingly.
> 
>   Sorry everyone else, but Adam is publically here challanging
> me and INEGroup, yet he has never submitted the legally proper
> FOIA request to be making the FALSE statement he is making
> below.  However Adam has had from time to time disagreements
> with our members positions and has demonstrated privately
> via Email that he has a personal vendetta, as I would and others
> whom have reviewed independantly those Email at my request,
> discribed such.  This is unfortunate and certainly not any of
> my doing.  But if you wish, I can forward those Email to any
> of you for your review upon request and a signed non disclosure
> agreement if you provide a mailing address or via forward by
> Email if you have a valid and up to date, Class 2 cert.
> 
>   But Adam is correct about one thing, that member count in
> my sig file below, is not fully up to date.  That is simply because
> I don't yet have an accurate count, but our membership is now
> estimated to be closer to 284,000 members presently.  However
> until I recieve an accurate count, I will not be updating my Sig file
> to reflect the correct figure accordingly so as not to be misleading.
> 
> Adam Peake wrote:
> 
>>> Hi Ian and Parminder,
>>>
>>> Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity crisis please?
>> Why?
>>
>> Jeff Williams has been posting to ICANN and general Internet lists
>> for years. You will find plenty of notes about who he is (or is not)
>> and about the claims he makes.
>>
>> He closes every email with a .sig that's patently untrue.  There is
>> no INEGroup LLA, no 281k members/stakeholders.
>>
>> You judge if you want to bother replying. I'd suggest best just to
>> ignore him.  It's not about substance, some of his emails are as sane
>> as anyone else's, some are inflammatory, some are just silly. As the
>> subject lines suggests it's best not to feed the troll. And to use
>> another online cliche... your mileage may vary.
>>
>> I am not Paddy bateman,, but I agree with his/her comment.
>>
>> It would also be best not to continue this thread!
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman
>>> <pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  > For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff Williams,
>>>>  please consider that his only role in the Internet community is as a
>>>>  longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
>>>>  Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past decade.
>>>>  It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping this list
>>>>  useful is to completely ignore his posts.
>>>>
>>>>  For more background information, see here:
>>>  > http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
>>>>  And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
>>>>  probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask him
>>>>  where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup LLA", the
>>>>  imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If INEGroup LLA
>>>>  actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
>>>>  members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would think
>>>>  there might be some public information available. You'd also think that one
>>>>  or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
>>>>
>>>>  He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do not need
>>>>  his distractions.
>>>>
>>>>  -pb
>>>>
>>>>  ____________________________________________________________
>>>>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>  To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>
>>>>  For all list information and functions, see:
>>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>> --------------------------
>>> Fouad Bajwa
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>
>>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>    Abraham Lincoln
> 
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> 
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
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From pavan.elena at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 11:05:18 2008
From: pavan.elena at gmail.com (Elena Pavan)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:05:18 +0100
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
Message-ID: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com>

Dear all,

I have seen on the IGF website that each country abroad posts of the 
Indian government should release a *gratis visa to the participants* to 
the IGF in Hyderabad. i just called the agency the italian indian 
consulate indicated me in milan and, apparently, gratis visas will be 
released only for those who own a UN passport (I did not even know that 
there is a UN passport, mea culpa). for other participants turistic 
visas for something around 70€ will be released or business visas for 
120€ (plus expenses to go to milan or to pay exeditions). is it just me 
having heard this? not that it is a problem, it is not so much money but 
if it is the way it works then maybe the host country website should say 
that -the way it looks like now seems to suggest that everyone will have 
a visa for free/gratis. it is also possible that, as often happens, 
italian organizations might suffer from some leak...in that case  i will 
deal with this -and i'm sure money will have to be paid anyhow.
please, do let me know.
I'll see you soon.
Elena

-- 
Elena Pavan
PhD Candidate
DSRS University of Trento
Piazza Venezia 41
38100 Trento
Italy

E-mail: elena.pavan at soc.unitn.it
	pavan.elena at gmail.com

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From alice at apc.org  Mon Oct 27 11:06:25 2008
From: alice at apc.org (alice)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:06:25 +0300
Subject: [governance] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?East_Africa_Internet_Governance_Fo?=
 =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?rum_(EAIGF):__Opening_the_Internet_Governance_Debate_in_?=
 =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?East_Africa,=93Thinking_Globally;_Acting_Locally=94]?=
Message-ID: <4905D8F1.9020202@apc.org>

(Apologies for cross posting)


The Kenya ICT Board in conjunction with the Kenya Information Network 
Center (KENIC), the Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet), Communications 
Commission of Kenya (CCK) the East African ICT for Development Network 
(EA ICT4D), International Development and Research Center (IDRC) and 
other participating organizations invite you to the East Africa Internet 
Governance Forum (EAIGF) to be held between the 10th and 12th of 
November, 2008 in Nairobi Kenya.

The EAIGF is a follow up to the National Internet Governance Forums 
(NIGF's)  being held in Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania and Rwanda in October 
2008 and which are aimed at identifying, exploring and building 
consensus around national level Internet Governance issues.

The East Africa Internet Governance Forum (EAIGF) aims at:
•    creating awareness,
•    instituting a consensus building process to develop a common 
understanding of East African Internet governance
•    building policy capacity in order to enable meaningful 
participation in global Internet policy, governance and development.

The outcomes of the EAIGF will be submitted and presented at the third 
global Internet Governance Forum taking place in India in December 2008.

As a key player in the Internet industry, it is our pleasure to invite 
you to the East African IGF. A detailed programme for the event will be sent in 
due course.

For planning purposes, please register for the meeting at:  
http://www.eaigf.or.ke or send an email to:  meeting at eaigf.or.ke 
confirming your attendance.




_______________________________________________



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From k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk  Mon Oct 27 11:12:03 2008
From: k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk (Konstantinos Komaitis)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:12:03 +0000
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D8B87832BDC13F45B7265357FCF323C309DF0E@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk>

I didn't even though that there is a distinction. I have had problems with getting a VISA since the consulates here in the UK were not even aware of the IGF in Hyderabad and they were asking for a letter of invitation from the host country. After a lot of effort they still have not resolved the issue and they promised that they would look into it further. I have already send an email to the IGF Secretariat about this issue and they said that presumably they have been problems with other participants that want to get visas and they find it rather difficult. I will keep you informed for any developments.

Konstantinos

Dr. Konstantinos Komaitis

Lecturer in IT&T Law, Panellist,
Chair Membership Committee,
Global Internet Governance Academic Network,
University of Strathclyde,
The Law School,
141 St James Road,
Glasgow G4 0LT.

tel:+44 (0)141 548 4306
fax:+44 (0)141 548 3639
email: k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk
http://www.law.strath.ac.uk/staff/bio_sharepoint.aspx?id=75


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elena Pavan [mailto:pavan.elena at gmail.com]
> Sent: 27 October 2008 15:05
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Subject: [governance] visas for india?
>
> Dear all,
>
> I have seen on the IGF website that each country abroad posts of the
> Indian government should release a *gratis visa to the participants* to
> the IGF in Hyderabad. i just called the agency the italian indian
> consulate indicated me in milan and, apparently, gratis visas will be
> released only for those who own a UN passport (I did not even know that
> there is a UN passport, mea culpa). for other participants turistic
> visas for something around 70€ will be released or business visas for
> 120€ (plus expenses to go to milan or to pay exeditions). is it just me
> having heard this? not that it is a problem, it is not so much money but
> if it is the way it works then maybe the host country website should say
> that -the way it looks like now seems to suggest that everyone will have
> a visa for free/gratis. it is also possible that, as often happens,
> italian organizations might suffer from some leak...in that case  i will
> deal with this -and i'm sure money will have to be paid anyhow.
> please, do let me know.
> I'll see you soon.
> Elena
>
> --
> Elena Pavan
> PhD Candidate
> DSRS University of Trento
> Piazza Venezia 41
> 38100 Trento
> Italy
>
> E-mail: elena.pavan at soc.unitn.it
>         pavan.elena at gmail.com
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
____________________________________________________________
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From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch  Mon Oct 27 11:31:31 2008
From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:31:31 +0100
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2bd6d7670810270831k22bc4023p49ed9e9e0c77e7d0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Elena,

I've been concerned about the same due to my travel schedule, have a one
week window to get the thing, so after seeing your message rang up Markus.
It is, it would seem, a known issue, one which our MAG reps could probably
confirm has been discussed.  Supposedly the host ministry has issued a
circular letter that was supposed to go to all consulates etc. saying to
issue free visas, but it's not happening and people are having problems all
over, standing in lines at consulates only to be turned away etc.  I
wouldn't pay yet, give them a little time to see if it can get straightened
out.  ...You shouldn't have to have a UN laissez passer to avoid the fees. I
went through the same thing last year, took six visits to the Brazilian
consulate and intervention from the capital, but eventually it worked.

Bill

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 4:05 PM, Elena Pavan <pavan.elena at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I have seen on the IGF website that each country abroad posts of the Indian
> government should release a *gratis visa to the participants* to the IGF in
> Hyderabad. i just called the agency the italian indian consulate indicated
> me in milan and, apparently, gratis visas will be released only for those
> who own a UN passport (I did not even know that there is a UN passport, mea
> culpa). for other participants turistic visas for something around 70€ will
> be released or business visas for 120€ (plus expenses to go to milan or to
> pay exeditions). is it just me having heard this? not that it is a problem,
> it is not so much money but if it is the way it works then maybe the host
> country website should say that -the way it looks like now seems to suggest
> that everyone will have a visa for free/gratis. it is also possible that, as
> often happens, italian organizations might suffer from some leak...in that
> case  i will deal with this -and i'm sure money will have to be paid anyhow.
> please, do let me know.
> I'll see you soon.
> Elena
>
> --
> Elena Pavan
> PhD Candidate
> DSRS University of Trento
> Piazza Venezia 41
> 38100 Trento
> Italy
>
> E-mail: elena.pavan at soc.unitn.it
>        pavan.elena at gmail.com
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>



-- 
***********************************************************
William J. Drake
Center for International Governance
Graduate Institute for International and
 Development Studies
 Geneva, Switzerland
william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch
http://tinyurl.com/38dcxf
***********************************************************
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From pavan.elena at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 11:59:38 2008
From: pavan.elena at gmail.com (Elena Pavan)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:59:38 +0100
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <2bd6d7670810270831k22bc4023p49ed9e9e0c77e7d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> <2bd6d7670810270831k22bc4023p49ed9e9e0c77e7d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4905E56A.2040305@gmail.com>

thank you for sharing this. i have been asked an invitation letter too.. 
we'll wait to see if there are any developments. by the way, even here 
they haven't ever hear of the igf... while i was trying to explain why a 
phd candidate has to follow the UN in india the woman at th ephone said 
at one point: "oooh! I see now! it is a sort of fair, isn't it?" ;)
take care,
i'll keep you posted if i do have any news from milan
elena



William Drake ha scritto:
> Hi Elena,
>
> I've been concerned about the same due to my travel schedule, have a one
> week window to get the thing, so after seeing your message rang up Markus.
> It is, it would seem, a known issue, one which our MAG reps could probably
> confirm has been discussed.  Supposedly the host ministry has issued a
> circular letter that was supposed to go to all consulates etc. saying to
> issue free visas, but it's not happening and people are having problems all
> over, standing in lines at consulates only to be turned away etc.  I
> wouldn't pay yet, give them a little time to see if it can get straightened
> out.  ...You shouldn't have to have a UN laissez passer to avoid the fees. I
> went through the same thing last year, took six visits to the Brazilian
> consulate and intervention from the capital, but eventually it worked.
>
> Bill
>
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 4:05 PM, Elena Pavan <pavan.elena at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I have seen on the IGF website that each country abroad posts of the Indian
>> government should release a *gratis visa to the participants* to the IGF in
>> Hyderabad. i just called the agency the italian indian consulate indicated
>> me in milan and, apparently, gratis visas will be released only for those
>> who own a UN passport (I did not even know that there is a UN passport, mea
>> culpa). for other participants turistic visas for something around 70€ will
>> be released or business visas for 120€ (plus expenses to go to milan or to
>> pay exeditions). is it just me having heard this? not that it is a problem,
>> it is not so much money but if it is the way it works then maybe the host
>> country website should say that -the way it looks like now seems to suggest
>> that everyone will have a visa for free/gratis. it is also possible that, as
>> often happens, italian organizations might suffer from some leak...in that
>> case  i will deal with this -and i'm sure money will have to be paid anyhow.
>> please, do let me know.
>> I'll see you soon.
>> Elena
>>
>> --
>> Elena Pavan
>> PhD Candidate
>> DSRS University of Trento
>> Piazza Venezia 41
>> 38100 Trento
>> Italy
>>
>> E-mail: elena.pavan at soc.unitn.it
>>        pavan.elena at gmail.com
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>
>
>
>

-- 
Elena Pavan
PhD Candidate
DSRS University of Trento
Piazza Venezia 41
38100 Trento
Italy

E-mail: elena.pavan at soc.unitn.it
	pavan.elena at gmail.com

____________________________________________________________
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From correia.rui at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 12:03:38 2008
From: correia.rui at gmail.com (Rui Correia)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:03:38 +0200
Subject: [governance] no need to feed ARRANT trolls
Message-ID: <ec8caada0810270903k2126a8dbwf2263ebf7310633d@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All

I would like to play devil's advocate - you guys are being unfair to Jeff.
You are probably all jealous of his many accomplishments!

jeff has been the spokesman for the INEGroup (Information Network Eng.
Group) for 11 years!!! Now YOU beat that! To my knowledge only in REAL
democracies without crap such as "no third term" does a real leader stay at
the helm for that long! I mean, look at Robert Mugabe! Look at dos Santos of
Angola! Those are democracies and Jeff is one of the last lone defenders of
those untainted ideals!

At times he has also been the CEO/ DIR. of Information Network Eng. Group.
INEG. INC.
http://www.fitug.de/icann-euorpe/0010/msg00102.html
Please note that when Jeff signs himself as CEO/ DIR., the signature does
not reflect membership figures because the CEO/ DIR. does not have a right
to those figures, as this would constitute a violation of the members'
privacy. However, the CEO/ DIR. can access those figures if he files a FOIA,
but he does nor have the time, as he is busy making valuable contributions
to another few hundred mailing lists, and "100+ websites, some of which are
extranet and intranet". Not an easy job by any measure!


Jeff is an extremely hard worker, dedicating himself to enlightening others
on allthe lists he contributes to

INEGroup has been growing and growing, from

95 thousand in August 1999,
http://www.fitug.de/icann-euorpe/0010/msg00102.html
to 95 thousand in October 1999,
http://www.mail-archive.com/list at ifwp.org/msg11113.html
to 95 thouand in January 2000,
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/us-list/LL000119.LOG.txt (don't
think there was no growth in numbers, it is just Jeff did not want to - and
I quote directly from him "that is simply because I don't yet have an
accurate count ... I will not be updating my Sig file
to reflect the correct figure accordingly so as not to be misleading."
How's that for real character!
to 112 thousand in June 2000 (see? INEGroups keeps on growing in
popularity!!!!!!!!!
to 118 thousand in october 2001
http://atlargestudy.org/forum_archive/msg01150.shtml
to 129 thousand in May 2003,
http://www.fitug.de/icann-euorpe/0010/msg00102.html
to today's figures - which we will not guess at, so as not to appear to be
misleading anyone!!!


Now, Jeff would be even better at it, if only he could learn English - that
way, it wouldn't be so easy to bust him, when another of his personae
"writes" some or other nonsense to which he then - as another persona -
responds.
http://www.mail-archive.com/list at ifwp.org/msg09259.html
There is a little-known-of science for which language register experts get
paid a lot of money usually in court cases to analyse language usage
patterns. It's a dead give-away when you respond to yourself. Don't do it
Jeff! People have their knives out for you!!! At the very least you could
learn the difference between "its" and "it's" and "Errant" and "Arrant" -
besides using WRONGLY, you use "arrant" so often that even google gives you
away - especially when it appears in the posting of those YOU are RESPONDING
TO!!! Stop, it Jeff, someone might catch on!!!!!

Actually, Jeff is so busy, that he sometimes - to be able to get all his
work done - has to make up people to whom he writes about the people he is
writing about!!!!
Below, he is ALL THREE!! What a menage-a-trois!
Here, he responds to "Brian" about "William"
http://www.mail-archive.com/list at ifwp.org/msg09259.html
Here, "Brian" is saying that someone is trying to impersonate him -
http://www.mail-archive.com/list at ifwp.org/msg09369.html
BUT, LO AND BEHOLD!!!!! "Brian" who is "Sr. Legal Advisor, International
House of Justice Internet Communications Affairs and Policy, Advisory
Council for Public Affairs and Internet Policy, European", HAS THE SAME
PHONE NUMBER AS JEFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! then again, kit is quite
normal for organisation with 280 thousand people to ALL share the same phone
number!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I do it myself .... with my three alter
nos.


On 27/10/2008, Jeanette Hofmann <jeanette at wzb.eu> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> the best thing is to filter emails from Jeffrey and ignore him. This
> reduces the noise to those who keep replying to Jeffrey's emails. I have
> been doing this for years and it works well.
> jeanette
>
> Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
>
>> Adam and all,
>>
>>  Sorry Adam, your incorrect.  INEGroup is registered and is
>> filed with the US FEC.  Submitting a FOIA request, which has been
>> done on several occasions, will give you the factual information
>> via an independant source that you need or desire.  Further
>> we are registered with Edgar and DOC/NTIA as of 1998 which
>> you can check out for yourself if you so choose, also via a
>> FOIA request as well.  So as always, do your due diligance
>> if you desire accordingly.
>>
>>  Sorry everyone else, but Adam is publically here challanging
>> me and INEGroup, yet he has never submitted the legally proper
>> FOIA request to be making the FALSE statement he is making
>> below.  However Adam has had from time to time disagreements
>> with our members positions and has demonstrated privately
>> via Email that he has a personal vendetta, as I would and others
>> whom have reviewed independantly those Email at my request,
>> discribed such.  This is unfortunate and certainly not any of
>> my doing.  But if you wish, I can forward those Email to any
>> of you for your review upon request and a signed non disclosure
>> agreement if you provide a mailing address or via forward by
>> Email if you have a valid and up to date, Class 2 cert.
>>
>>  But Adam is correct about one thing, that member count in
>> my sig file below, is not fully up to date.  That is simply because
>> I don't yet have an accurate count, but our membership is now
>> estimated to be closer to 284,000 members presently.  However
>> until I recieve an accurate count, I will not be updating my Sig file
>> to reflect the correct figure accordingly so as not to be misleading.
>>
>> Adam Peake wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Ian and Parminder,
>>>>
>>>> Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity crisis
>>>> please?
>>>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>> Jeff Williams has been posting to ICANN and general Internet lists
>>> for years. You will find plenty of notes about who he is (or is not)
>>> and about the claims he makes.
>>>
>>> He closes every email with a .sig that's patently untrue.  There is
>>> no INEGroup LLA, no 281k members/stakeholders.
>>>
>>> You judge if you want to bother replying. I'd suggest best just to
>>> ignore him.  It's not about substance, some of his emails are as sane
>>> as anyone else's, some are inflammatory, some are just silly. As the
>>> subject lines suggests it's best not to feed the troll. And to use
>>> another online cliche... your mileage may vary.
>>>
>>> I am not Paddy bateman,, but I agree with his/her comment.
>>>
>>> It would also be best not to continue this thread!
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>  On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman
>>>> <pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>  > For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff
>>>> Williams,
>>>>
>>>>>  please consider that his only role in the Internet community is as a
>>>>>  longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
>>>>>  Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past
>>>>> decade.
>>>>>  It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping this
>>>>> list
>>>>>  useful is to completely ignore his posts.
>>>>>
>>>>>  For more background information, see here:
>>>>>
>>>>  > http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
>>>>
>>>>>  And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
>>>>>  probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask
>>>>> him
>>>>>  where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup LLA",
>>>>> the
>>>>>  imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If INEGroup
>>>>> LLA
>>>>>  actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
>>>>>  members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would
>>>>> think
>>>>>  there might be some public information available. You'd also think
>>>>> that one
>>>>>  or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
>>>>>
>>>>>  He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do
>>>>> not need
>>>>>  his distractions.
>>>>>
>>>>>  -pb
>>>>>
>>>>>  ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>>  To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>>>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>>
>>>>>  For all list information and functions, see:
>>>>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Regards.
>>>> --------------------------
>>>> Fouad Bajwa
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>
>>>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>
>>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
>> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>>   Abraham Lincoln
>>
>> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
>> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>>
>> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
>> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
>> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
>> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
>> ===============================================================
>> Updated 1/26/04
>> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
>> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
>> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
>> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
>> My Phone: 214-244-4827
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>



-- 
________________________________________________


Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant
2 Cutten St
Horison
Roodepoort-Johannesburg,
South Africa
Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336
Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838
_______________
áâãçéêíóôõúç
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From ahmed.swapan at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 12:19:16 2008
From: ahmed.swapan at gmail.com (Ahmed Swapan Mahmud)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 22:19:16 +0600
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c81ef57a0810270919xf64d2f8m82c0fa94193e1a1a@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for raising the issue. Last year Brazil government had the provision
forthe gratis VISA. Indian government can take initiative and inform its
consulate offices worldwide. However, Bangladeshi don't need to pay VISA
fee, only 200 taka as service charge.

Hope the local organizations can help out raising the issue to the
government.

Best regards,

Ahmed

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Elena Pavan <pavan.elena at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I have seen on the IGF website that each country abroad posts of the Indian
> government should release a *gratis visa to the participants* to the IGF in
> Hyderabad. i just called the agency the italian indian consulate indicated
> me in milan and, apparently, gratis visas will be released only for those
> who own a UN passport (I did not even know that there is a UN passport, mea
> culpa). for other participants turistic visas for something around 70€ will
> be released or business visas for 120€ (plus expenses to go to milan or to
> pay exeditions). is it just me having heard this? not that it is a problem,
> it is not so much money but if it is the way it works then maybe the host
> country website should say that -the way it looks like now seems to suggest
> that everyone will have a visa for free/gratis. it is also possible that, as
> often happens, italian organizations might suffer from some leak...in that
> case  i will deal with this -and i'm sure money will have to be paid anyhow.
> please, do let me know.
> I'll see you soon.
> Elena
>
> --
> Elena Pavan
> PhD Candidate
> DSRS University of Trento
> Piazza Venezia 41
> 38100 Trento
> Italy
>
> E-mail: elena.pavan at soc.unitn.it
>        pavan.elena at gmail.com
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>



-- 
Ahmed Swapan Mahmud
Executive Director, VOICE
House 67, Block-Ka
Pisciculture Housing Society
Shyamoli, Dhaka 1207
Bangladesh
Tel : +88-02-8158688
Cell-phone : +88-01711-881919
Alternate e-mail : exchange.voice at gmail.com
Website : www.voicebd.org
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From jeanette at wzb.eu  Mon Oct 27 12:48:29 2008
From: jeanette at wzb.eu (Jeanette Hofmann)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:48:29 +0000
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <c81ef57a0810270919xf64d2f8m82c0fa94193e1a1a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> <c81ef57a0810270919xf64d2f8m82c0fa94193e1a1a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4905F0DD.2030307@wzb.eu>

Hi, the visa issue is a mess. I got my visa last week but had to pay 95 
Euro for it. I have been in contact with somebody from the Indian 
administration about this and he promised this would be sorted out in 
the coming days.

Please be aware that there are further complications for expats. Seeiti 
from Brazil spent at least 2 days in Berlin waiting for a fax from the 
Indian embassy in Brazil to the Indian embassy in Germany to get his visa.
I will ask someone from the secretariat to provide more information 
about the current practice.
jeanette

Ahmed Swapan Mahmud wrote:
> Thanks for raising the issue. Last year Brazil government had the 
> provision forthe gratis VISA. Indian government can take initiative and 
> inform its consulate offices worldwide. However, Bangladeshi don't need 
> to pay VISA fee, only 200 taka as service charge.
> 
> Hope the local organizations can help out raising the issue to the 
> government.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Ahmed
> 
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Elena Pavan <pavan.elena at gmail.com 
> <mailto:pavan.elena at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Dear all,
> 
>     I have seen on the IGF website that each country abroad posts of the
>     Indian government should release a *gratis visa to the participants*
>     to the IGF in Hyderabad. i just called the agency the italian indian
>     consulate indicated me in milan and, apparently, gratis visas will
>     be released only for those who own a UN passport (I did not even
>     know that there is a UN passport, mea culpa). for other participants
>     turistic visas for something around 70€ will be released or business
>     visas for 120€ (plus expenses to go to milan or to pay exeditions).
>     is it just me having heard this? not that it is a problem, it is not
>     so much money but if it is the way it works then maybe the host
>     country website should say that -the way it looks like now seems to
>     suggest that everyone will have a visa for free/gratis. it is also
>     possible that, as often happens, italian organizations might suffer
>     from some leak...in that case  i will deal with this -and i'm sure
>     money will have to be paid anyhow.
>     please, do let me know.
>     I'll see you soon.
>     Elena
> 
>     -- 
>     Elena Pavan
>     PhD Candidate
>     DSRS University of Trento
>     Piazza Venezia 41
>     38100 Trento
>     Italy
> 
>     E-mail: elena.pavan at soc.unitn.it <mailto:elena.pavan at soc.unitn.it>
>            pavan.elena at gmail.com <mailto:pavan.elena at gmail.com>
> 
>     ____________________________________________________________
>     You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>        governance at lists.cpsr.org <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>
>     To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>        governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>     <mailto:governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org>
> 
>     For all list information and functions, see:
>        http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ahmed Swapan Mahmud
> Executive Director, VOICE
> House 67, Block-Ka
> Pisciculture Housing Society
> Shyamoli, Dhaka 1207
> Bangladesh
> Tel : +88-02-8158688
> Cell-phone : +88-01711-881919
> Alternate e-mail : exchange.voice at gmail.com 
> <mailto:exchange.voice at gmail.com>
> Website : www.voicebd.org <http://www.voicebd.org>
> 
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Mon Oct 27 13:32:10 2008
From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 23:02:10 +0530
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <4905F0DD.2030307@wzb.eu>
Message-ID: <20081027173459.50355E2F5D@smtp3.electricembers.net>

Hi All

I have written to the MAG list seeking clarifications regarding issue of
visas for attending the IGF at Hyderabad. My email is reproduced below. I
will keep the list posted on the response of the organizers and the MAG.
Parminder 

_________

Hi All

This is mainly addressed to the IGF secretariat and the Indian organizers,
but MAG may want to explore some kind of a permanent solution to this
recurring problem. I see a flurry of emails on the Civil Society Internet
Governance Caucus recounting various kinds of problems in trying to get a
visa to attend the IGF at Hyderabad. Very similar emails were received last
year around this time regarding Rio IGF. I have also received emails
directly from many others, especially from developing countries, who are
finding it very difficult to get a visa. 

 We have heard here about the problems that some MAG members are facing in
getting a visa. One can well understand how it would be with ordinary
applicants. In many capitals, the Indian embassy seems to be insisting on a
personal invitation from the Indian government - the organizers of the IGF -
and the IGF registration document is often not enough. MAG members I
understand are now receiving special personal invitations from the Indian
government against requests. But what happens to other visa seekers? 

I do understand that this problem is symptomatic of a new age global forum -
with a unique open character - coming in conflict with the existing
international order, but while philosophically this looks like an
interesting issue, people are lining up at Indian embassies and returning
frustrated. Either the host government needs to give out personal
invitations to all IGF registrants, or the IGF, in its UN status, should
have some kind of authority to extend invitations on behalf of the host
country. But one thing is certain, the present situation is just not clear
and mostly not working. 
 
I request advise on what should these applicants who are being asked for a
personal invitation do next.  
 
On another count; though participants are supposed to get a gratis visa,
very often even when a visa is being granted it is not gratis. Maybe another
round of instructions to the embassies will help. 

 Thanks 

Parminder


____________________________________________________________
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From nhklein at gmx.net  Mon Oct 27 13:47:59 2008
From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 00:47:59 +0700
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <4905F0DD.2030307@wzb.eu>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> <c81ef57a0810270919xf64d2f8m82c0fa94193e1a1a@mail.gmail.com> <4905F0DD.2030307@wzb.eu>
Message-ID: <200810280048.00135.nhklein@gmx.net>

Some may know that the international tourism slogan of India is "Incredible 
India" - I got the message when I had to go 7 (SEVEN!) times to the Indian 
embassy in Phnom Penh (where I live) to get an expensive visa in order to 
attend the ICANN meeting in Delhi earlier in the year. It was a procedure 
that took several weeks, and I got the visa into my German pasport finally on 
the day before departure.

I had a nice, official letter of invitation - maybe it would have been seven 
times seven times without the official letter of invitation.

So I knew: "Incredible India!" - or at least incredible staff at the visa 
section of the Indian embassy in Phnom Penh.


Norbert



On Monday, 27 October 2008 23:48:29 Jeanette Hofmann wrote:

> Hi, the visa issue is a mess. I got my visa last week but had to pay 95
> Euro for it. I have been in contact with somebody from the Indian
> administration about this and he promised this would be sorted out in
> the coming days.
>
> Please be aware that there are further complications for expats. Seeiti
> from Brazil spent at least 2 days in Berlin waiting for a fax from the
> Indian embassy in Brazil to the Indian embassy in Germany to get his visa.
> I will ask someone from the secretariat to provide more information
> about the current practice.
> jeanette

-- 
If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia,
please visit us regularly - you can find something new every day:

http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English)
http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer)
____________________________________________________________
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From isolatedn at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 16:08:47 2008
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 01:38:47 +0530
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <200810280048.00135.nhklein@gmx.net>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com>
	 <c81ef57a0810270919xf64d2f8m82c0fa94193e1a1a@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4905F0DD.2030307@wzb.eu> <200810280048.00135.nhklein@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <fecfce260810271308l14dcf520p559f5c55e2e7fc69@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

Parminder's mail to the MAG list would possibly be taken up at the MAG and
hopefully UN would act upon this problem. The Governance list archives are
public records and might also have been taken note of by the IGF task
committees of the Government of India. I am also sending a brief note to the
Government of India to take note of the VISA issues discussed in the thread
http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance/2008-10/msg00108.html which is
publicly accessible.

Hope this helps.

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
India.





On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 11:17 PM, Norbert Klein <nhklein at gmx.net> wrote:

> Some may know that the international tourism slogan of India is "Incredible
> India" - I got the message when I had to go 7 (SEVEN!) times to the Indian
> embassy in Phnom Penh (where I live) to get an expensive visa in order to
> attend the ICANN meeting in Delhi earlier in the year. It was a procedure
> that took several weeks, and I got the visa into my German pasport finally
> on
> the day before departure.
>
> I had a nice, official letter of invitation - maybe it would have been
> seven
> times seven times without the official letter of invitation.
>
> So I knew: "Incredible India!" - or at least incredible staff at the visa
> section of the Indian embassy in Phnom Penh.
>
>
> Norbert
>
>
>
> On Monday, 27 October 2008 23:48:29 Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
>
> > Hi, the visa issue is a mess. I got my visa last week but had to pay 95
> > Euro for it. I have been in contact with somebody from the Indian
> > administration about this and he promised this would be sorted out in
> > the coming days.
> >
> > Please be aware that there are further complications for expats. Seeiti
> > from Brazil spent at least 2 days in Berlin waiting for a fax from the
> > Indian embassy in Brazil to the Indian embassy in Germany to get his
> visa.
> > I will ask someone from the secretariat to provide more information
> > about the current practice.
> > jeanette
>
> --
> If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia,
> please visit us regularly - you can find something new every day:
>
> http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English)
> http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer)
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>



-- 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Mon Oct 27 16:09:17 2008
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:09:17 +0000
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Tgp5a98t$hBJFAXW@perry.co.uk>

In message <4905D8AE.40007 at gmail.com>, at 16:05:18 on Mon, 27 Oct 2008, 
Elena Pavan <pavan.elena at gmail.com> writes
>Indian government should release a *gratis visa to the participants* to 
>the IGF in Hyderabad. i just called the agency the italian indian 
>consulate indicated me in milan and, apparently, gratis visas will be 
>released only for those who own a UN passport

In the UK many Indian visa applications are handled through an agency 
appointed by the consulate. They say they know nothing about this "free 
Visa" arrangement, and looking at their online application process I 
think it will fail if I don't include the standard "Conference visa" 
fee. I live over two hours from London and was hoping not to have to 
travel and queue all day (as is apparently required when applying in 
person).

The next obstacle is whether or not they will accept the email from the 
secretariat as a "signed letter of invitation". And will they also 
require a letter from my employer (in this case RIPE NCC in 
Netherlands).
-- 
Roland Perry
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From hananeb at diplomacy.edu  Mon Oct 27 16:14:55 2008
From: hananeb at diplomacy.edu (Hanane Boujemi)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:14:55 +0100
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <200810280048.00135.nhklein@gmx.net>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> <c81ef57a0810270919xf64d2f8m82c0fa94193e1a1a@mail.gmail.com> <4905F0DD.2030307@wzb.eu> <200810280048.00135.nhklein@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <95467492F7C049FD83F4E09B0DE5E17E@HANANEPC>

Hi,

Thanks for raising this issue. I am experiencing a problem getting the visa 
as well after 15 days I could not get an approval from the consulate in 
Malta. Indeed they did not have an idea what IGF stands for when I called 
directly to Libya since my passport should be sent there to be stamped, at a 
charge of course :).

I was told that my application needs to be approved from India, if it 
possible the organizers should provide the list of registered participants 
in IGF to all the Indian embassies around the world to make this procedure 
more flexible. I guess all of us need to confirm the ticket as well and it 
cannot be done last minute as it's the peak season there moreover the price 
is no joke!

Hanane

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Norbert Klein" <nhklein at gmx.net>
To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
Cc: "Jeanette Hofmann" <jeanette at wzb.eu>; "Elena Pavan" 
<pavan.elena at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india?


> Some may know that the international tourism slogan of India is 
> "Incredible
> India" - I got the message when I had to go 7 (SEVEN!) times to the Indian
> embassy in Phnom Penh (where I live) to get an expensive visa in order to
> attend the ICANN meeting in Delhi earlier in the year. It was a procedure
> that took several weeks, and I got the visa into my German pasport finally 
> on
> the day before departure.
>
> I had a nice, official letter of invitation - maybe it would have been 
> seven
> times seven times without the official letter of invitation.
>
> So I knew: "Incredible India!" - or at least incredible staff at the visa
> section of the Indian embassy in Phnom Penh.
>
>
> Norbert
>
>
>
> On Monday, 27 October 2008 23:48:29 Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
>
>> Hi, the visa issue is a mess. I got my visa last week but had to pay 95
>> Euro for it. I have been in contact with somebody from the Indian
>> administration about this and he promised this would be sorted out in
>> the coming days.
>>
>> Please be aware that there are further complications for expats. Seeiti
>> from Brazil spent at least 2 days in Berlin waiting for a fax from the
>> Indian embassy in Brazil to the Indian embassy in Germany to get his 
>> visa.
>> I will ask someone from the secretariat to provide more information
>> about the current practice.
>> jeanette
>
> -- 
> If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia,
> please visit us regularly - you can find something new every day:
>
> http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English)
> http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer)
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 


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From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Mon Oct 27 16:35:04 2008
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 07:35:04 +1100
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <Tgp5a98t$hBJFAXW@perry.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7A2B1BD0A6264C52A6BB285D8DD6A7EE@IAN>

Same situation here - visa applications are outsourced and the company knows
nothing about the gratis application request from Indian government

Think I will go the route of a simple tourist visa and pay the fee....

Ian Peter
PO Box 429
Bangalow NSW 2479
Australia
Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
www.ianpeter.com
 
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roland Perry [mailto:roland at internetpolicyagency.com]
> Sent: 28 October 2008 07:09
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india?
> 
> In message <4905D8AE.40007 at gmail.com>, at 16:05:18 on Mon, 27 Oct 2008,
> Elena Pavan <pavan.elena at gmail.com> writes
> >Indian government should release a *gratis visa to the participants* to
> >the IGF in Hyderabad. i just called the agency the italian indian
> >consulate indicated me in milan and, apparently, gratis visas will be
> >released only for those who own a UN passport
> 
> In the UK many Indian visa applications are handled through an agency
> appointed by the consulate. They say they know nothing about this "free
> Visa" arrangement, and looking at their online application process I
> think it will fail if I don't include the standard "Conference visa"
> fee. I live over two hours from London and was hoping not to have to
> travel and queue all day (as is apparently required when applying in
> person).
> 
> The next obstacle is whether or not they will accept the email from the
> secretariat as a "signed letter of invitation". And will they also
> require a letter from my employer (in this case RIPE NCC in
> Netherlands).
> --
> Roland Perry
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008
> 2:18 PM

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From k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk  Mon Oct 27 16:27:04 2008
From: k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk (Konstantinos Komaitis)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:27:04 +0000
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <Tgp5a98t$hBJFAXW@perry.co.uk>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com>,<Tgp5a98t$hBJFAXW@perry.co.uk>
Message-ID: <D8B87832BDC13F45B7265357FCF323C3076E12@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk>

I am also located in the UK and they do not accept the email confirming registration at the IGF. They say that they want a letter of invitation, my passport has been held by the Indian authorities for the past 2 weeks. They say that we need a letter of invitation even if we are to apply for business visa.


Konstantinos
________________________________________
From: Roland Perry [roland at internetpolicyagency.com]
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:09 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india?

In message <4905D8AE.40007 at gmail.com>, at 16:05:18 on Mon, 27 Oct 2008,
Elena Pavan <pavan.elena at gmail.com> writes
>Indian government should release a *gratis visa to the participants* to
>the IGF in Hyderabad. i just called the agency the italian indian
>consulate indicated me in milan and, apparently, gratis visas will be
>released only for those who own a UN passport

In the UK many Indian visa applications are handled through an agency
appointed by the consulate. They say they know nothing about this "free
Visa" arrangement, and looking at their online application process I
think it will fail if I don't include the standard "Conference visa"
fee. I live over two hours from London and was hoping not to have to
travel and queue all day (as is apparently required when applying in
person).

The next obstacle is whether or not they will accept the email from the
secretariat as a "signed letter of invitation". And will they also
require a letter from my employer (in this case RIPE NCC in
Netherlands).
--
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From isolatedn at gmail.com  Mon Oct 27 17:15:51 2008
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:45:51 +0530
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <D8B87832BDC13F45B7265357FCF323C3076E12@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> <Tgp5a98t$hBJFAXW@perry.co.uk>
	 <D8B87832BDC13F45B7265357FCF323C3076E12@E2K7-MS2.ds.strath.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <fecfce260810271415i7c850553vd13c68ce307dc155@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

By comparison, (or to inspire the Government of India), here is an account
of how the OECD Secretariat responded to a similar situation when I sent an
email to draw attention to my VISA application to visit Korea to attend the
OECD Ministerial Meeting on the Future of Internet.

My trip was finalized so late that there was barely enough time for my
passport to reach the Korean Embassy in Delhi, just a day to process (the
Embassy usually takes three days) and barely enough time for the passport to
travel back from Delhi to Chennai. So I sent an email to the OECD
Secretariat asking them to send a second email to the Korean Embassy in
Delhi ( in addition to the invitation that had already been automatically
faxed from the OECD Secretariat to the Korean Embassy in Delhi to say that I
am an invited participant).

My email was instantly forwarded to an Executive at the OECD Secretariat for
immediate attention, and he telephoned the Consul at the South Korean
Embassy at Delhi, then sent me an email to say that he has spoken to the
Consul and advised me to advise my Agent to take the papers straight
upstairs to the Counsel's Office. He also spoke to me to keep me informed of
his efforts, called me thrice more, sent two or three messages during those
two days to check the status and to ask me if it was done, and did not stop
until I told him that I got my VISA.  My VISA was processed on the same day
and was rushed back. I made it to the OECD meeting.

Hopefully the IGF Secretariat and the Ministries of Commerce and External
Affairs in India prioritize VISA applications by IGF participants in Indian
Embassies around the world !

(Parminder could also offer his valuable Special Advice to the IGF Chair on
this)

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
ISOC India Chennai Chapter.


On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:57 AM, Konstantinos Komaitis <
k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk> wrote:

> I am also located in the UK and they do not accept the email confirming
> registration at the IGF. They say that they want a letter of invitation, my
> passport has been held by the Indian authorities for the past 2 weeks. They
> say that we need a letter of invitation even if we are to apply for business
> visa.
>
>
> Konstantinos
> ________________________________________
> From: Roland Perry [roland at internetpolicyagency.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:09 PM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india?
>
> In message <4905D8AE.40007 at gmail.com>, at 16:05:18 on Mon, 27 Oct 2008,
> Elena Pavan <pavan.elena at gmail.com> writes
> >Indian government should release a *gratis visa to the participants* to
> >the IGF in Hyderabad. i just called the agency the italian indian
> >consulate indicated me in milan and, apparently, gratis visas will be
> >released only for those who own a UN passport
>
> In the UK many Indian visa applications are handled through an agency
> appointed by the consulate. They say they know nothing about this "free
> Visa" arrangement, and looking at their online application process I
> think it will fail if I don't include the standard "Conference visa"
> fee. I live over two hours from London and was hoping not to have to
> travel and queue all day (as is apparently required when applying in
> person).
>
> The next obstacle is whether or not they will accept the email from the
> secretariat as a "signed letter of invitation". And will they also
> require a letter from my employer (in this case RIPE NCC in
> Netherlands).
> --
> Roland Perry
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
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>



-- 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 26 21:59:33 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:59:33 -0700
Subject: [governance] IP-Watch: World Customs Organization Publications
 Copyright Policy Questioned
Message-ID: <49052085.EA319EF1@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  As a member of IP-Watch the following struck me as significant,
and directly relevant to Internet governance on a number of levels.

  As an FYI:

 <http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/wp-trackback.php?p=1280>
http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/wp-trackback.php?p=1280


Intellectual Property Watch


World Customs Organization Publications Copyright Policy Questioned


By William New
In an unusual policy for an international organisation, the World
Customs Organization imposes copyright over every document its 
bodies produce, even agendas, which means that no document can 
be reproduced without the organisation's express consent.

But now some member governments are questioning this practice, which
they say was intended only for the organisation to protect the rights in
publications made for sale or containing proprietary information, and is
now blocking access to information about the organisation's work.

The issue has come to a head in recent months as part of a growing
controversy around a WCO working group on enforcement that potentially
puts customs officials in the role of judging counterfeit and pirated 
goods directly and without judges or other authorities.

The next and fourth meeting of the SECURE (Standards to be Employed by
Customs for Uniform Rights Enforcement) working group is 30-31 October
at the WCO in Brussels. Quoting from a copy of the agenda obtained by
Intellectual Property Watch, expected items for discussion include
adoption of the third working group report; discussion and adoption 
of the terms of reference working draft and revised proposed action 
plan; review and further development of the working draft of the 
SECURE document of 25 April; a private-sector presentation by Philips; 
and under other business, a presentation by the UN Universal Postal 
Union, and, lastly, "discussion of process document from Brazil and 
Argentina."

Brazil and Argentina requested the agenda item be called, "Transparency,
legitimacy and a member-driven process," but the WCO secretariat chose
to call it simply a "discussion of process document."

In late September, Brazil and Argentina asked the secretariat to
circulate a document entitled, "Ensuring transparency and a 
legitimate, member-driven process in the SECURE working group." 
The author governments requested the document to be considered 
an official document, but it was only considered a "non-paper," 
the sources said.

At the last meeting of the SECURE working group in June, several
members, including Argentina, Brazil, China, Cuba, Ecuador and 
Uruguay, raised the concern that their voices were not heard in 
the preparation of the draft set of standards on enforcement (
<http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/wp-trackback.php?p=1117> IPW,
Enforcement, 27 June 2008). Intellectual Property Watch was 
ordered by WCO to take down a document from that meeting.

The 189-member Universal Postal Union recently came under scrutiny as
well for a sudden upswing in discussion of enforcement activities. 
The UPU Congress in August reportedly adopted a resolution that 
encouraged members to identify counterfeit and pirated items in the 
postal network and to cooperate with the relevant national and 
international authorities in awareness-raising initiatives to 
prevent illegal circulation of counterfeit goods. But a number 
of countries were concerned that the postal service did not have 
the scope or necessary legal and other expertise to implement
such a resolution, in particular the expertise to determine 
whether a product is counterfeit or violates IP laws. The resolution's 
adoption was appealed, according to sources.

Publication Policy or Information Control?

The WCO limits circulation of its documents in several ways. It posts 
to documents, even meeting agendas, that "for reasons of economy, 
documents are printed in limited number. Delegates are kindly asked 
to bring their copies to meetings and not to request additional 
copies." WCO then adds: "Copyright C 2008 World Customs Organization. 
All rights reserved. Requests and inquiries concerning translation, 
reproduction and adaptation rights should be addressed to
copyright at wcoomd.org."

In order to access documents, passwords are needed, according to a
source. But it is unclear why a copyright is used to protect negotiating
documents used by elected governments, when the documents are not
expected to be offered for sale or any other apparent disadvantage to 
the organisation's secretariat.

The WCO could not comment on its copyright policy by presstime. New WCO
Secretary General Kunio Mikuriya takes office in the new year.

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 26 22:04:20 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:04:20 -0700
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
References: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com>	 <701af9f70810262118k7a71abe5of6e88c26065bc178@mail.gmail.com> <p0624080bc52b1887266a@[192.168.1.2]> <49043DDA.FFE1AAA5@ix.netcom.com> <4905A2E2.1090007@wzb.eu>
Message-ID: <490521A4.307CD18F@ix.netcom.com>

Jeanette and all,

  Certainly selective sensorship works.  I employ it when and where
necessary and justified ethically speaking.  I cannot of course say
for myself that such applies to myself or any of our INEGroup members.
Thankfully Jeanette is one of a tiny few that does.  But idologically
extream often take such a position...

Jeanette Hofmann wrote:

> Hi,
> the best thing is to filter emails from Jeffrey and ignore him. This
> reduces the noise to those who keep replying to Jeffrey's emails. I have
> been doing this for years and it works well.
> jeanette
>
> Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> > Adam and all,
> >
> >   Sorry Adam, your incorrect.  INEGroup is registered and is
> > filed with the US FEC.  Submitting a FOIA request, which has been
> > done on several occasions, will give you the factual information
> > via an independant source that you need or desire.  Further
> > we are registered with Edgar and DOC/NTIA as of 1998 which
> > you can check out for yourself if you so choose, also via a
> > FOIA request as well.  So as always, do your due diligance
> > if you desire accordingly.
> >
> >   Sorry everyone else, but Adam is publically here challanging
> > me and INEGroup, yet he has never submitted the legally proper
> > FOIA request to be making the FALSE statement he is making
> > below.  However Adam has had from time to time disagreements
> > with our members positions and has demonstrated privately
> > via Email that he has a personal vendetta, as I would and others
> > whom have reviewed independantly those Email at my request,
> > discribed such.  This is unfortunate and certainly not any of
> > my doing.  But if you wish, I can forward those Email to any
> > of you for your review upon request and a signed non disclosure
> > agreement if you provide a mailing address or via forward by
> > Email if you have a valid and up to date, Class 2 cert.
> >
> >   But Adam is correct about one thing, that member count in
> > my sig file below, is not fully up to date.  That is simply because
> > I don't yet have an accurate count, but our membership is now
> > estimated to be closer to 284,000 members presently.  However
> > until I recieve an accurate count, I will not be updating my Sig file
> > to reflect the correct figure accordingly so as not to be misleading.
> >
> > Adam Peake wrote:
> >
> >>> Hi Ian and Parminder,
> >>>
> >>> Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity crisis please?
> >> Why?
> >>
> >> Jeff Williams has been posting to ICANN and general Internet lists
> >> for years. You will find plenty of notes about who he is (or is not)
> >> and about the claims he makes.
> >>
> >> He closes every email with a .sig that's patently untrue.  There is
> >> no INEGroup LLA, no 281k members/stakeholders.
> >>
> >> You judge if you want to bother replying. I'd suggest best just to
> >> ignore him.  It's not about substance, some of his emails are as sane
> >> as anyone else's, some are inflammatory, some are just silly. As the
> >> subject lines suggests it's best not to feed the troll. And to use
> >> another online cliche... your mileage may vary.
> >>
> >> I am not Paddy bateman,, but I agree with his/her comment.
> >>
> >> It would also be best not to continue this thread!
> >>
> >> Adam
> >>
> >>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman
> >>> <pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>  > For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff Williams,
> >>>>  please consider that his only role in the Internet community is as a
> >>>>  longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
> >>>>  Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past decade.
> >>>>  It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping this list
> >>>>  useful is to completely ignore his posts.
> >>>>
> >>>>  For more background information, see here:
> >>>  > http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
> >>>>  And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
> >>>>  probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask him
> >>>>  where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup LLA", the
> >>>>  imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If INEGroup LLA
> >>>>  actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
> >>>>  members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would think
> >>>>  there might be some public information available. You'd also think that one
> >>>>  or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
> >>>>
> >>>>  He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do not need
> >>>>  his distractions.
> >>>>
> >>>>  -pb
> >>>>
> >>>>  ____________________________________________________________
> >>>>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >>>>  To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>>>
> >>>>  For all list information and functions, see:
> >>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Regards.
> >>> --------------------------
> >>> Fouad Bajwa
> >>> ____________________________________________________________
> >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>>
> >>> For all list information and functions, see:
> >>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>
> >> For all list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >    Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >
> > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > ===============================================================
> > Updated 1/26/04
> > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827




____________________________________________________________
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     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 26 22:49:03 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:49:03 -0700
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> <Tgp5a98t$hBJFAXW@perry.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49052C1F.716CC717@ix.netcom.com>

Roland and all,

  I am not sure why there is really such a problem in attaining a
visa.  I got my diplomatic visa to India very easily recently.  Perhaps
it is the difference in types of visas being sought and/or requested?

Roland Perry wrote:

> In message <4905D8AE.40007 at gmail.com>, at 16:05:18 on Mon, 27 Oct 2008,
> Elena Pavan <pavan.elena at gmail.com> writes
> >Indian government should release a *gratis visa to the participants* to
> >the IGF in Hyderabad. i just called the agency the italian indian
> >consulate indicated me in milan and, apparently, gratis visas will be
> >released only for those who own a UN passport
>
> In the UK many Indian visa applications are handled through an agency
> appointed by the consulate. They say they know nothing about this "free
> Visa" arrangement, and looking at their online application process I
> think it will fail if I don't include the standard "Conference visa"
> fee. I live over two hours from London and was hoping not to have to
> travel and queue all day (as is apparently required when applying in
> person).
>
> The next obstacle is whether or not they will accept the email from the
> secretariat as a "signed letter of invitation". And will they also
> require a letter from my employer (in this case RIPE NCC in
> Netherlands).
> --
> Roland Perry
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Mon Oct 27 05:02:57 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 02:02:57 -0700
Subject: [governance] Russian Regulators Block Google Online Advertising
 Acquisition
Message-ID: <490583C1.DDC6DBF1@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  Well it seems that the Russians have a clue as well, and seek
to dissuade Google from spewing forth it's advertising spam
to their citizens without some review and oversight.  Perhaps
Google would be wise to be more diplomatic and considerate
of its advertising practices in the future.  Advertising muscle and
gravitas may have for Google run it's course.

  Perhaps the Russian government has set a good precedent for
our FTC, as much as I personally dislike considering such, to take
note of given the huge amount of Google generated advertising
Email spam I certainly receive from time to time.

See:
"Russian regulators  http://goodgearguide.com.au/index.php/id;146729296
will not let Google buy a local online advertising company, halting a
$140
million deal agreed to in July. Google had
http://pcworld.idg.com.au/index.php?id=474464940 planned to acquire
Zao Begun, which has a search and contextual video and text advertising
business. Begun is owned by Rambler Media, a Russian company that
own various Web sites and runs a search engine. Google said it is
reviewing
the decision of Russia's Federal Antimonopoly Service (FAS) and hasn't
decided how to react.  Slashdot has previously covered some of the
 http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/15/1220206&tid=217
issues surrounding Google's muscle in the advertising market."

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



____________________________________________________________
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     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de  Tue Oct 28 04:46:29 2008
From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:46:29 +0100
Subject: AW: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
References: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com>
 <701af9f70810262118k7a71abe5of6e88c26065bc178@mail.gmail.com>
 <p0624080bc52b1887266a@[192.168.1.2]> <49043DDA.FFE1AAA5@ix.netcom.com>
 <4905A2E2.1090007@wzb.eu> <490521A4.307CD18F@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID:  <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426423@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>

Dear Jeff
 
I met last week a guy from Germany who wants to become a member of the German Bundestag after next years elections. He outet himself as member of the INEGroup. He told me that they have ministers in more than 50 governments around the globe and are very active in more than 2000 online-lists everywhere. And he admires you as the most respected leader and godfather of the whole movement. He will organize a "Jeff Williams Celebration Day" in 2009 at May, 17, which is also the "World Internet Day". One of the purpose of the Day - he expects hundreds of speakers from all over the world - is to create a "Jeff Williams Fan Club" (JEWIFAC). The JEWIFAC Preparatory Group (PrepGrou) as already asked a world wide known composer to write a "Jeff Williams Anthem" in D-Dur. Are you aware of his activities and what is your recommendation?  How we can help?  
 
Best wishes
 
Wolfgang
 

 
________________________________

Von: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com]
Gesendet: Mo 27.10.2008 03:04
An: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Betreff: Re: [governance] no need to feed the trolls



Jeanette and all,

  Certainly selective sensorship works.  I employ it when and where
necessary and justified ethically speaking.  I cannot of course say
for myself that such applies to myself or any of our INEGroup members.
Thankfully Jeanette is one of a tiny few that does.  But idologically
extream often take such a position...

Jeanette Hofmann wrote:

> Hi,
> the best thing is to filter emails from Jeffrey and ignore him. This
> reduces the noise to those who keep replying to Jeffrey's emails. I have
> been doing this for years and it works well.
> jeanette
>
> Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> > Adam and all,
> >
> >   Sorry Adam, your incorrect.  INEGroup is registered and is
> > filed with the US FEC.  Submitting a FOIA request, which has been
> > done on several occasions, will give you the factual information
> > via an independant source that you need or desire.  Further
> > we are registered with Edgar and DOC/NTIA as of 1998 which
> > you can check out for yourself if you so choose, also via a
> > FOIA request as well.  So as always, do your due diligance
> > if you desire accordingly.
> >
> >   Sorry everyone else, but Adam is publically here challanging
> > me and INEGroup, yet he has never submitted the legally proper
> > FOIA request to be making the FALSE statement he is making
> > below.  However Adam has had from time to time disagreements
> > with our members positions and has demonstrated privately
> > via Email that he has a personal vendetta, as I would and others
> > whom have reviewed independantly those Email at my request,
> > discribed such.  This is unfortunate and certainly not any of
> > my doing.  But if you wish, I can forward those Email to any
> > of you for your review upon request and a signed non disclosure
> > agreement if you provide a mailing address or via forward by
> > Email if you have a valid and up to date, Class 2 cert.
> >
> >   But Adam is correct about one thing, that member count in
> > my sig file below, is not fully up to date.  That is simply because
> > I don't yet have an accurate count, but our membership is now
> > estimated to be closer to 284,000 members presently.  However
> > until I recieve an accurate count, I will not be updating my Sig file
> > to reflect the correct figure accordingly so as not to be misleading.
> >
> > Adam Peake wrote:
> >
> >>> Hi Ian and Parminder,
> >>>
> >>> Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity crisis please?
> >> Why?
> >>
> >> Jeff Williams has been posting to ICANN and general Internet lists
> >> for years. You will find plenty of notes about who he is (or is not)
> >> and about the claims he makes.
> >>
> >> He closes every email with a .sig that's patently untrue.  There is
> >> no INEGroup LLA, no 281k members/stakeholders.
> >>
> >> You judge if you want to bother replying. I'd suggest best just to
> >> ignore him.  It's not about substance, some of his emails are as sane
> >> as anyone else's, some are inflammatory, some are just silly. As the
> >> subject lines suggests it's best not to feed the troll. And to use
> >> another online cliche... your mileage may vary.
> >>
> >> I am not Paddy bateman,, but I agree with his/her comment.
> >>
> >> It would also be best not to continue this thread!
> >>
> >> Adam
> >>
> >>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman
> >>> <pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>  > For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff Williams,
> >>>>  please consider that his only role in the Internet community is as a
> >>>>  longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
> >>>>  Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past decade.
> >>>>  It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping this list
> >>>>  useful is to completely ignore his posts.
> >>>>
> >>>>  For more background information, see here:
> >>>  > http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
> >>>>  And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
> >>>>  probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask him
> >>>>  where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup LLA", the
> >>>>  imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If INEGroup LLA
> >>>>  actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
> >>>>  members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would think
> >>>>  there might be some public information available. You'd also think that one
> >>>>  or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
> >>>>
> >>>>  He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do not need
> >>>>  his distractions.
> >>>>
> >>>>  -pb
> >>>>
> >>>>  ____________________________________________________________
> >>>>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >>>>  To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>>>
> >>>>  For all list information and functions, see:
> >>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Regards.
> >>> --------------------------
> >>> Fouad Bajwa
> >>> ____________________________________________________________
> >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>>
> >>> For all list information and functions, see:
> >>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>
> >> For all list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >    Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >
> > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > ===============================================================
> > Updated 1/26/04
> > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827




____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


____________________________________________________________
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Tue Oct 28 05:42:22 2008
From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:12:22 +0530
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426423@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <20081028094330.7138BA6C53@smtp2.electricembers.net>


Hi All

Just to inform that the co-coordinators are seized of the matter underlying
the exchanges on this thread. And we will take appropriate decisions. I
request members to move on and do more postings on this issue. Thanks.
Parminder  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kleinwächter, Wolfgang
> [mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:16 PM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Jeffrey A. Williams
> Subject: AW: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
> 
> Dear Jeff
> 
> I met last week a guy from Germany who wants to become a member of the
> German Bundestag after next years elections. He outet himself as member of
> the INEGroup. He told me that they have ministers in more than 50
> governments around the globe and are very active in more than 2000 online-
> lists everywhere. And he admires you as the most respected leader and
> godfather of the whole movement. He will organize a "Jeff Williams
> Celebration Day" in 2009 at May, 17, which is also the "World Internet
> Day". One of the purpose of the Day - he expects hundreds of speakers from
> all over the world - is to create a "Jeff Williams Fan Club" (JEWIFAC).
> The JEWIFAC Preparatory Group (PrepGrou) as already asked a world wide
> known composer to write a "Jeff Williams Anthem" in D-Dur. Are you aware
> of his activities and what is your recommendation?  How we can help?
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Wolfgang
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> Von: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com]
> Gesendet: Mo 27.10.2008 03:04
> An: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Betreff: Re: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
> 
> 
> 
> Jeanette and all,
> 
>   Certainly selective sensorship works.  I employ it when and where
> necessary and justified ethically speaking.  I cannot of course say
> for myself that such applies to myself or any of our INEGroup members.
> Thankfully Jeanette is one of a tiny few that does.  But idologically
> extream often take such a position...
> 
> Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > the best thing is to filter emails from Jeffrey and ignore him. This
> > reduces the noise to those who keep replying to Jeffrey's emails. I have
> > been doing this for years and it works well.
> > jeanette
> >
> > Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> > > Adam and all,
> > >
> > >   Sorry Adam, your incorrect.  INEGroup is registered and is
> > > filed with the US FEC.  Submitting a FOIA request, which has been
> > > done on several occasions, will give you the factual information
> > > via an independant source that you need or desire.  Further
> > > we are registered with Edgar and DOC/NTIA as of 1998 which
> > > you can check out for yourself if you so choose, also via a
> > > FOIA request as well.  So as always, do your due diligance
> > > if you desire accordingly.
> > >
> > >   Sorry everyone else, but Adam is publically here challanging
> > > me and INEGroup, yet he has never submitted the legally proper
> > > FOIA request to be making the FALSE statement he is making
> > > below.  However Adam has had from time to time disagreements
> > > with our members positions and has demonstrated privately
> > > via Email that he has a personal vendetta, as I would and others
> > > whom have reviewed independantly those Email at my request,
> > > discribed such.  This is unfortunate and certainly not any of
> > > my doing.  But if you wish, I can forward those Email to any
> > > of you for your review upon request and a signed non disclosure
> > > agreement if you provide a mailing address or via forward by
> > > Email if you have a valid and up to date, Class 2 cert.
> > >
> > >   But Adam is correct about one thing, that member count in
> > > my sig file below, is not fully up to date.  That is simply because
> > > I don't yet have an accurate count, but our membership is now
> > > estimated to be closer to 284,000 members presently.  However
> > > until I recieve an accurate count, I will not be updating my Sig file
> > > to reflect the correct figure accordingly so as not to be misleading.
> > >
> > > Adam Peake wrote:
> > >
> > >>> Hi Ian and Parminder,
> > >>>
> > >>> Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity crisis
> please?
> > >> Why?
> > >>
> > >> Jeff Williams has been posting to ICANN and general Internet lists
> > >> for years. You will find plenty of notes about who he is (or is not)
> > >> and about the claims he makes.
> > >>
> > >> He closes every email with a .sig that's patently untrue.  There is
> > >> no INEGroup LLA, no 281k members/stakeholders.
> > >>
> > >> You judge if you want to bother replying. I'd suggest best just to
> > >> ignore him.  It's not about substance, some of his emails are as sane
> > >> as anyone else's, some are inflammatory, some are just silly. As the
> > >> subject lines suggests it's best not to feed the troll. And to use
> > >> another online cliche... your mileage may vary.
> > >>
> > >> I am not Paddy bateman,, but I agree with his/her comment.
> > >>
> > >> It would also be best not to continue this thread!
> > >>
> > >> Adam
> > >>
> > >>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman
> > >>> <pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>  > For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff
> Williams,
> > >>>>  please consider that his only role in the Internet community is as
> a
> > >>>>  longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
> > >>>>  Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the
> past decade.
> > >>>>  It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping
> this list
> > >>>>  useful is to completely ignore his posts.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  For more background information, see here:
> > >>>  > http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
> > >>>>  And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail,
> which he
> > >>>>  probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first
> ask him
> > >>>>  where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup
> LLA", the
> > >>>>  imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If
> INEGroup LLA
> > >>>>  actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
> > >>>>  members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would
> think
> > >>>>  there might be some public information available. You'd also think
> that one
> > >>>>  or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We
> do not need
> > >>>>  his distractions.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  -pb
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  ____________________________________________________________
> > >>>>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>>>  To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > >>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  For all list information and functions, see:
> > >>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards.
> > >>> --------------------------
> > >>> Fouad Bajwa
> > >>> ____________________________________________________________
> > >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > >>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>>
> > >>> For all list information and functions, see:
> > >>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > >> ____________________________________________________________
> > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>
> > >> For all list information and functions, see:
> > >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> > >    Abraham Lincoln
> > >
> > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> > >
> > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > > ===============================================================
> > > Updated 1/26/04
> > > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________________________________________________________
> > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > >
> > > For all list information and functions, see:
> > >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>    Abraham Lincoln
> 
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> 
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


____________________________________________________________
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From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au  Tue Oct 28 06:07:23 2008
From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 03:07:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
Message-ID: <599908.22118.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Parminder,

Do you really want "members to move on and do more postings on this issue"? I think you meant to include a "no" in there!

David





----- Original Message ----
From: Parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
Sent: Tuesday, 28 October, 2008 8:42:22 PM
Subject: RE: [governance] no need to feed the trolls


Hi All

Just to inform that the co-coordinators are seized of the matter underlying
the exchanges on this thread. And we will take appropriate decisions. I
request members to move on and do more postings on this issue. Thanks.
Parminder  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kleinwächter, Wolfgang
> [mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:16 PM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Jeffrey A. Williams
> Subject: AW: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
> 
> Dear Jeff
> 
> I met last week a guy from Germany who wants to become a member of the
> German Bundestag after next years elections. He outet himself as member of
> the INEGroup. He told me that they have ministers in more than 50
> governments around the globe and are very active in more than 2000 online-
> lists everywhere. And he admires you as the most respected leader and
> godfather of the whole movement. He will organize a "Jeff Williams
> Celebration Day" in 2009 at May, 17, which is also the "World Internet
> Day". One of the purpose of the Day - he expects hundreds of speakers from
> all over the world - is to create a "Jeff Williams Fan Club" (JEWIFAC).
> The JEWIFAC Preparatory Group (PrepGrou) as already asked a world wide
> known composer to write a "Jeff Williams Anthem" in D-Dur. Are you aware
> of his activities and what is your recommendation?  How we can help?
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Wolfgang
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> Von: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com]
> Gesendet: Mo 27.10.2008 03:04
> An: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Betreff: Re: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
> 
> 
> 
> Jeanette and all,
> 
>   Certainly selective sensorship works.  I employ it when and where
> necessary and justified ethically speaking.  I cannot of course say
> for myself that such applies to myself or any of our INEGroup members.
> Thankfully Jeanette is one of a tiny few that does.  But idologically
> extream often take such a position...
> 
> Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > the best thing is to filter emails from Jeffrey and ignore him. This
> > reduces the noise to those who keep replying to Jeffrey's emails. I have
> > been doing this for years and it works well.
> > jeanette
> >
> > Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> > > Adam and all,
> > >
> > >   Sorry Adam, your incorrect.  INEGroup is registered and is
> > > filed with the US FEC.  Submitting a FOIA request, which has been
> > > done on several occasions, will give you the factual information
> > > via an independant source that you need or desire.  Further
> > > we are registered with Edgar and DOC/NTIA as of 1998 which
> > > you can check out for yourself if you so choose, also via a
> > > FOIA request as well.  So as always, do your due diligance
> > > if you desire accordingly.
> > >
> > >   Sorry everyone else, but Adam is publically here challanging
> > > me and INEGroup, yet he has never submitted the legally proper
> > > FOIA request to be making the FALSE statement he is making
> > > below.  However Adam has had from time to time disagreements
> > > with our members positions and has demonstrated privately
> > > via Email that he has a personal vendetta, as I would and others
> > > whom have reviewed independantly those Email at my request,
> > > discribed such.  This is unfortunate and certainly not any of
> > > my doing.  But if you wish, I can forward those Email to any
> > > of you for your review upon request and a signed non disclosure
> > > agreement if you provide a mailing address or via forward by
> > > Email if you have a valid and up to date, Class 2 cert.
> > >
> > >   But Adam is correct about one thing, that member count in
> > > my sig file below, is not fully up to date.  That is simply because
> > > I don't yet have an accurate count, but our membership is now
> > > estimated to be closer to 284,000 members presently.  However
> > > until I recieve an accurate count, I will not be updating my Sig file
> > > to reflect the correct figure accordingly so as not to be misleading.
> > >
> > > Adam Peake wrote:
> > >
> > >>> Hi Ian and Parminder,
> > >>>
> > >>> Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity crisis
> please?
> > >> Why?
> > >>
> > >> Jeff Williams has been posting to ICANN and general Internet lists
> > >> for years. You will find plenty of notes about who he is (or is not)
> > >> and about the claims he makes.
> > >>
> > >> He closes every email with a .sig that's patently untrue.  There is
> > >> no INEGroup LLA, no 281k members/stakeholders.
> > >>
> > >> You judge if you want to bother replying. I'd suggest best just to
> > >> ignore him.  It's not about substance, some of his emails are as sane
> > >> as anyone else's, some are inflammatory, some are just silly. As the
> > >> subject lines suggests it's best not to feed the troll. And to use
> > >> another online cliche... your mileage may vary.
> > >>
> > >> I am not Paddy bateman,, but I agree with his/her comment.
> > >>
> > >> It would also be best not to continue this thread!
> > >>
> > >> Adam
> > >>
> > >>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman
> > >>> <pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>  > For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff
> Williams,
> > >>>>  please consider that his only role in the Internet community is as
> a
> > >>>>  longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
> > >>>>  Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the
> past decade.
> > >>>>  It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping
> this list
> > >>>>  useful is to completely ignore his posts.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  For more background information, see here:
> > >>>  > http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
> > >>>>  And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail,
> which he
> > >>>>  probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first
> ask him
> > >>>>  where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup
> LLA", the
> > >>>>  imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If
> INEGroup LLA
> > >>>>  actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
> > >>>>  members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would
> think
> > >>>>  there might be some public information available. You'd also think
> that one
> > >>>>  or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We
> do not need
> > >>>>  his distractions.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  -pb
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  ____________________________________________________________
> > >>>>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>>>  To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > >>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  For all list information and functions, see:
> > >>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards.
> > >>> --------------------------
> > >>> Fouad Bajwa
> > >>> ____________________________________________________________
> > >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > >>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>>
> > >>> For all list information and functions, see:
> > >>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > >> ____________________________________________________________
> > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>
> > >> For all list information and functions, see:
> > >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> > >    Abraham Lincoln
> > >
> > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> > >
> > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > > ===============================================================
> > > Updated 1/26/04
> > > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________________________________________________________
> > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > >
> > > For all list information and functions, see:
> > >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>    Abraham Lincoln
> 
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> 
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


____________________________________________________________
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To be removed from the list, send any message to:
    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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      Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011
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From parminder at itforchange.net  Tue Oct 28 06:35:05 2008
From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:05:05 +0530
Subject: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
In-Reply-To: <599908.22118.qm@web54102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20081028103536.A1DB1E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net>

> Parminder,
> 
> Do you really want "members to move on and do more postings on this
> issue"? I think you meant to include a "no" in there!
> 
> David

Thanks for pointing it out David. Of course, I did mean a 'no' there. My
apologies. 

I request members to do *no* more postings on this matter. Thanks. Parminder


> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Goldstein [mailto:goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 3:37 PM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
> 
> Parminder,
> 
> Do you really want "members to move on and do more postings on this
> issue"? I think you meant to include a "no" in there!
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Sent: Tuesday, 28 October, 2008 8:42:22 PM
> Subject: RE: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
> 
> 
> Hi All
> 
> Just to inform that the co-coordinators are seized of the matter
> underlying
> the exchanges on this thread. And we will take appropriate decisions. I
> request members to move on and do more postings on this issue. Thanks.
> Parminder
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kleinwächter, Wolfgang
> > [mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:16 PM
> > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Jeffrey A. Williams
> > Subject: AW: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
> >
> > Dear Jeff
> >
> > I met last week a guy from Germany who wants to become a member of the
> > German Bundestag after next years elections. He outet himself as member
> of
> > the INEGroup. He told me that they have ministers in more than 50
> > governments around the globe and are very active in more than 2000
> online-
> > lists everywhere. And he admires you as the most respected leader and
> > godfather of the whole movement. He will organize a "Jeff Williams
> > Celebration Day" in 2009 at May, 17, which is also the "World Internet
> > Day". One of the purpose of the Day - he expects hundreds of speakers
> from
> > all over the world - is to create a "Jeff Williams Fan Club" (JEWIFAC).
> > The JEWIFAC Preparatory Group (PrepGrou) as already asked a world wide
> > known composer to write a "Jeff Williams Anthem" in D-Dur. Are you aware
> > of his activities and what is your recommendation?  How we can help?
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Wolfgang
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > Von: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com]
> > Gesendet: Mo 27.10.2008 03:04
> > An: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > Betreff: Re: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
> >
> >
> >
> > Jeanette and all,
> >
> >   Certainly selective sensorship works.  I employ it when and where
> > necessary and justified ethically speaking.  I cannot of course say
> > for myself that such applies to myself or any of our INEGroup members.
> > Thankfully Jeanette is one of a tiny few that does.  But idologically
> > extream often take such a position...
> >
> > Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > the best thing is to filter emails from Jeffrey and ignore him. This
> > > reduces the noise to those who keep replying to Jeffrey's emails. I
> have
> > > been doing this for years and it works well.
> > > jeanette
> > >
> > > Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> > > > Adam and all,
> > > >
> > > >   Sorry Adam, your incorrect.  INEGroup is registered and is
> > > > filed with the US FEC.  Submitting a FOIA request, which has been
> > > > done on several occasions, will give you the factual information
> > > > via an independant source that you need or desire.  Further
> > > > we are registered with Edgar and DOC/NTIA as of 1998 which
> > > > you can check out for yourself if you so choose, also via a
> > > > FOIA request as well.  So as always, do your due diligance
> > > > if you desire accordingly.
> > > >
> > > >   Sorry everyone else, but Adam is publically here challanging
> > > > me and INEGroup, yet he has never submitted the legally proper
> > > > FOIA request to be making the FALSE statement he is making
> > > > below.  However Adam has had from time to time disagreements
> > > > with our members positions and has demonstrated privately
> > > > via Email that he has a personal vendetta, as I would and others
> > > > whom have reviewed independantly those Email at my request,
> > > > discribed such.  This is unfortunate and certainly not any of
> > > > my doing.  But if you wish, I can forward those Email to any
> > > > of you for your review upon request and a signed non disclosure
> > > > agreement if you provide a mailing address or via forward by
> > > > Email if you have a valid and up to date, Class 2 cert.
> > > >
> > > >   But Adam is correct about one thing, that member count in
> > > > my sig file below, is not fully up to date.  That is simply because
> > > > I don't yet have an accurate count, but our membership is now
> > > > estimated to be closer to 284,000 members presently.  However
> > > > until I recieve an accurate count, I will not be updating my Sig
> file
> > > > to reflect the correct figure accordingly so as not to be
> misleading.
> > > >
> > > > Adam Peake wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>> Hi Ian and Parminder,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity
> crisis
> > please?
> > > >> Why?
> > > >>
> > > >> Jeff Williams has been posting to ICANN and general Internet lists
> > > >> for years. You will find plenty of notes about who he is (or is
> not)
> > > >> and about the claims he makes.
> > > >>
> > > >> He closes every email with a .sig that's patently untrue.  There is
> > > >> no INEGroup LLA, no 281k members/stakeholders.
> > > >>
> > > >> You judge if you want to bother replying. I'd suggest best just to
> > > >> ignore him.  It's not about substance, some of his emails are as
> sane
> > > >> as anyone else's, some are inflammatory, some are just silly. As
> the
> > > >> subject lines suggests it's best not to feed the troll. And to use
> > > >> another online cliche... your mileage may vary.
> > > >>
> > > >> I am not Paddy bateman,, but I agree with his/her comment.
> > > >>
> > > >> It would also be best not to continue this thread!
> > > >>
> > > >> Adam
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman
> > > >>> <pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>  > For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by
> Jeff
> > Williams,
> > > >>>>  please consider that his only role in the Internet community is
> as
> > a
> > > >>>>  longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
> > > >>>>  Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the
> > past decade.
> > > >>>>  It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping
> > this list
> > > >>>>  useful is to completely ignore his posts.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>  For more background information, see here:
> > > >>>  > http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
> > > >>>>  And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail,
> > which he
> > > >>>>  probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first
> > ask him
> > > >>>>  where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup
> > LLA", the
> > > >>>>  imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If
> > INEGroup LLA
> > > >>>>  actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
> > > >>>>  members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you
> would
> > think
> > > >>>>  there might be some public information available. You'd also
> think
> > that one
> > > >>>>  or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>  He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We
> > do not need
> > > >>>>  his distractions.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>  -pb
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>  ____________________________________________________________
> > > >>>>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > > >>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >>>>  To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > > >>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>  For all list information and functions, see:
> > > >>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Regards.
> > > >>> --------------------------
> > > >>> Fouad Bajwa
> > > >>> ____________________________________________________________
> > > >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > > >>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > > >>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >>>
> > > >>> For all list information and functions, see:
> > > >>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > > >> ____________________________________________________________
> > > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > > >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > > >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >>
> > > >> For all list information and functions, see:
> > > >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders
> strong!)
> > > > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> > > >    Abraham Lincoln
> > > >
> > > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > > > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> > > >
> > > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > > > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > > > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > > > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > > > ===============================================================
> > > > Updated 1/26/04
> > > > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > > > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > > > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > > > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > > > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ____________________________________________________________
> > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > > >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > > >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >
> > > > For all list information and functions, see:
> > > >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >    Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >
> > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > ===============================================================
> > Updated 1/26/04
> > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
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> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
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> 
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> 
> 
>       Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7
> Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011
> ____________________________________________________________
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From correia.rui at gmail.com  Tue Oct 28 10:43:22 2008
From: correia.rui at gmail.com (Rui Correia)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:43:22 +0200
Subject: [governance] International Telecommunication Union criticised for
 its role in internet snooping
Message-ID: <ec8caada0810280743k71e1a6fdkadb9c284b8e81871@mail.gmail.com>

27.10.2008 13:35

« Previous <http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/117984> |
Next<http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/118049>
 »

International Telecommunication Union criticised for its role in internet
snooping

At EuroDIG, the first European Dialogue on Internet
Governance<http://www.eurodig.org/>,
the scientists and experts of the Council of Europe have sharply criticised
the International Telecommunication
Union<http://www.itu.int/net/home/index.aspx>(ITU) for acting behind
closed doors in its initiatives towards
cybersecurity standardization. Bertrand de la
Chapelle<http://www.itu.int/osg/spu/forum/intgov04/bios/delachapelle-bio.html>,
godfather of the first EuroDIG on behalf of the French government, said
EuroDIG should tell the ITU to allow all interest groups to participate in
discussing new technology standards. The recent meeting in Strasbourg
emphasized the idea of cooperation between governments, the industry and
users as one of the central points to be presented at the UN Internet
Governance Forum <http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/> in Hyderabad.

  Just recently, the ITU's work on standards for back-tracing IP
addresses<http://www.heise-online.co.uk/networks/ITU-discussing-enhanced-tracing-of-IP-addresses--/news/111532>caused
something of a furore. Yet, said Bill
Drake <http://graduateinstitute.ch/corporate/drake_en.html>, a scientist at
the Center for International Governance <http://graduateinstitute.ch/cig> at
the Graduate School in Geneva, this work was only a tiny part of the work
being done in the sensitive area of IT security. He warned that China,
Russia and the USA could become the new axis of evil, pushing forward the
integration of new ways of snooping on the internet. There was in his view
an ambitious agenda extending beyond technical questions all the way up to
legal regulations to counter cybercrime.

If you had access to the documents, Drake said, you could see everything
that was going on, but the ITU was not an open organisation. Drake's
criticism was echoed by other representatives of non-governmental
organisations, complaining that draft standards in domains that were of
great significance for all users, such as identity management, were not
being made available to the public or to interested circles. Drake warned
that ITU member countries and its member firms might thus be setting the
agenda for the ways and means in which the internet could be used in future.
When he mentioned possible problems with the work of the ITU to
non-governmental organisations, he said, they dismissed the ITU as a
powerless "dinosaur". But he recommended by contrast that European
governments and organizations should make a clear demand for more
transparency from the ITU. If Europe did not do this, he stressed, neither
the USA, Russia, nor China could be expected to do so.

Thomas Schneider of the Swiss Office for Communications pointed out that,
during the last general meeting of the ITU, the so called Plenipotentiary
Conference of the Member Countries, a series of European countries had
insisted, jointly with Switzerland, on the ITU experimentally allowing
public access to the technology documents. The ITU had now carried out a
series of consultations, he said, but each time only a handful of experts
had spoken up. If the Europeans did not get involved in this process, it was
to some extent their problem.

Alexander Seger, head of the Council of Europe's Division of Economic Crime,
expressed further criticism of the ITU. Up to a year ago, he said, the
experts of the Council of Europe had worked together quite well with the ITU
as the organisation commissioned with following up on the World Summit on
the Information Society <http://www.itu.int/wsis/index.html>. But, ever
since the ITU had published its cybersecurity agenda, there had been
enormous problems with such cooperation. Seger demanded that the ITU return
to its role as an organizer of the process. The Council of Europe is also
concentrating heavily on the topic of security as a custodian of the Cybercrime
Convention <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybercrime_Convention>.

*See also:*

   - EU to take action against "cyberbullying" and
"cybergrooming"<http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/EU-to-take-action-against-cyberbullying-and-cybergrooming--/111757>

(*Monika Ermert*) (jk <jk at ct.heise.de>/c't)

-- 
________________________________________________


Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant
2 Cutten St
Horison
Roodepoort-Johannesburg,
South Africa
Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336
Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838
_______________
áâãçéêíóôõúç
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From wnew at ip-watch.ch  Tue Oct 28 16:45:02 2008
From: wnew at ip-watch.ch (William New)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 21:45:02 +0100
Subject: [governance] IP-Watch: World Customs Organization Publications
 Copyright Policy Questioned
In-Reply-To: <49052085.EA319EF1@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <C9.2C.12707.0D977094@mail15>

Hi, thanks for the posting, but just wanted to clarify that IP-Watch does
not have "members." Perhaps Jeff Williams is signed up for the free email
alerts or RSS feeds of our news stories. 

William New, Editor-in-Chief, Intellectual Property Watch, Geneva,
Switzerland 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:00 AM
To: Governance/IGC
Subject: [governance] IP-Watch: World Customs Organization Publications
Copyright Policy Questioned

All,

  As a member of IP-Watch the following struck me as significant,
and directly relevant to Internet governance on a number of levels.

  As an FYI:

 <http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/wp-trackback.php?p=1280>
http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/wp-trackback.php?p=1280


Intellectual Property Watch


World Customs Organization Publications Copyright Policy Questioned


By William New
In an unusual policy for an international organisation, the World
Customs Organization imposes copyright over every document its 
bodies produce, even agendas, which means that no document can 
be reproduced without the organisation's express consent.

But now some member governments are questioning this practice, which
they say was intended only for the organisation to protect the rights in
publications made for sale or containing proprietary information, and is
now blocking access to information about the organisation's work.

The issue has come to a head in recent months as part of a growing
controversy around a WCO working group on enforcement that potentially
puts customs officials in the role of judging counterfeit and pirated 
goods directly and without judges or other authorities.

The next and fourth meeting of the SECURE (Standards to be Employed by
Customs for Uniform Rights Enforcement) working group is 30-31 October
at the WCO in Brussels. Quoting from a copy of the agenda obtained by
Intellectual Property Watch, expected items for discussion include
adoption of the third working group report; discussion and adoption 
of the terms of reference working draft and revised proposed action 
plan; review and further development of the working draft of the 
SECURE document of 25 April; a private-sector presentation by Philips; 
and under other business, a presentation by the UN Universal Postal 
Union, and, lastly, "discussion of process document from Brazil and 
Argentina."

Brazil and Argentina requested the agenda item be called, "Transparency,
legitimacy and a member-driven process," but the WCO secretariat chose
to call it simply a "discussion of process document."

In late September, Brazil and Argentina asked the secretariat to
circulate a document entitled, "Ensuring transparency and a 
legitimate, member-driven process in the SECURE working group." 
The author governments requested the document to be considered 
an official document, but it was only considered a "non-paper," 
the sources said.

At the last meeting of the SECURE working group in June, several
members, including Argentina, Brazil, China, Cuba, Ecuador and 
Uruguay, raised the concern that their voices were not heard in 
the preparation of the draft set of standards on enforcement (
<http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/wp-trackback.php?p=1117> IPW,
Enforcement, 27 June 2008). Intellectual Property Watch was 
ordered by WCO to take down a document from that meeting.

The 189-member Universal Postal Union recently came under scrutiny as
well for a sudden upswing in discussion of enforcement activities. 
The UPU Congress in August reportedly adopted a resolution that 
encouraged members to identify counterfeit and pirated items in the 
postal network and to cooperate with the relevant national and 
international authorities in awareness-raising initiatives to 
prevent illegal circulation of counterfeit goods. But a number 
of countries were concerned that the postal service did not have 
the scope or necessary legal and other expertise to implement
such a resolution, in particular the expertise to determine 
whether a product is counterfeit or violates IP laws. The resolution's 
adoption was appealed, according to sources.

Publication Policy or Information Control?

The WCO limits circulation of its documents in several ways. It posts 
to documents, even meeting agendas, that "for reasons of economy, 
documents are printed in limited number. Delegates are kindly asked 
to bring their copies to meetings and not to request additional 
copies." WCO then adds: "Copyright C 2008 World Customs Organization. 
All rights reserved. Requests and inquiries concerning translation, 
reproduction and adaptation rights should be addressed to
copyright at wcoomd.org."

In order to access documents, passwords are needed, according to a
source. But it is unclear why a copyright is used to protect negotiating
documents used by elected governments, when the documents are not
expected to be offered for sale or any other apparent disadvantage to 
the organisation's secretariat.

The WCO could not comment on its copyright policy by presstime. New WCO
Secretary General Kunio Mikuriya takes office in the new year.

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From correia.rui at gmail.com  Tue Oct 28 17:56:54 2008
From: correia.rui at gmail.com (Correia Rui)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:56:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [governance] testing - for list administrators only
Message-ID: <sympa.1225228318.50609.60@lists.cpsr.org>

Hi

I have posted 2 messages today, but have not seen any come out.

Would any of the list administrators kindly let me know.

Rui
____________________________________________________________
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     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From ross at isoc.org  Tue Oct 28 17:59:57 2008
From: ross at isoc.org (Gerard Ross)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:59:57 +0100
Subject: [governance] testing - for list administrators only
In-Reply-To: <sympa.1225228318.50609.60@lists.cpsr.org>
References: <sympa.1225228318.50609.60@lists.cpsr.org>
Message-ID: <9B5EACC9-E1C1-4938-9328-4A8B3D7B4A1C@isoc.org>

Hi Rui

I'm not a list admin, but I have seen messages from you today  
(including this one). And I see your messages listed in the list  
archive:

   http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance

Cheers
- Gerard

--
Gerard Ross
Senior Communications Manager
Internet Society
Email: ross at isoc.org


On 28/10/2008, at 10:56 PM, Correia Rui wrote:

> Hi
>
> I have posted 2 messages today, but have not seen any come out.
>
> Would any of the list administrators kindly let me know.
>
> Rui
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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From correia.rui at gmail.com  Tue Oct 28 18:03:38 2008
From: correia.rui at gmail.com (Rui Correia)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:03:38 +0200
Subject: [governance] testing - for list administrators only
In-Reply-To: <9B5EACC9-E1C1-4938-9328-4A8B3D7B4A1C@isoc.org>
References: <sympa.1225228318.50609.60@lists.cpsr.org>
	 <9B5EACC9-E1C1-4938-9328-4A8B3D7B4A1C@isoc.org>
Message-ID: <ec8caada0810281503q2cd7c592ha4d1793c87d82fbe@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gerard

Thanks. I'll go look at the archive. I sent the test straight from the list
website and received it. The others I did not receive. Odd.

Thanks again,

Rui

On 28/10/2008, Gerard Ross <ross at isoc.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Rui
>
> I'm not a list admin, but I have seen messages from you today (including
> this one). And I see your messages listed in the list archive:
>
>  http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance
>
> Cheers
> - Gerard
>
> --
> Gerard Ross
> Senior Communications Manager
> Internet Society
> Email: ross at isoc.org
>
>
> On 28/10/2008, at 10:56 PM, Correia Rui wrote:
>
>  Hi
>>
>> I have posted 2 messages today, but have not seen any come out.
>>
>> Would any of the list administrators kindly let me know.
>>
>> Rui
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>
>
>


-- 
________________________________________________


Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant
2 Cutten St
Horison
Roodepoort-Johannesburg,
South Africa
Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336
Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838
_______________
áâãçéêíóôõúç
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From isolatedn at gmail.com  Tue Oct 28 18:21:23 2008
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 03:51:23 +0530
Subject: [governance] testing - for list administrators only
In-Reply-To: <ec8caada0810281503q2cd7c592ha4d1793c87d82fbe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <sympa.1225228318.50609.60@lists.cpsr.org>
	 <9B5EACC9-E1C1-4938-9328-4A8B3D7B4A1C@isoc.org>
	 <ec8caada0810281503q2cd7c592ha4d1793c87d82fbe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fecfce260810281521j464ff460le55104330fd70af5@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Rui Correia,

Some times the message settings in a list is such that the person posting a
message does not receive a copy of the message posted. This is on the
assumption that the person posting a message already has a copy of the
message posted. I think this is what happened.

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy

On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 3:33 AM, Rui Correia <correia.rui at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Gerard
>
> Thanks. I'll go look at the archive. I sent the test straight from the list
> website and received it. The others I did not receive. Odd.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Rui
>
> On 28/10/2008, Gerard Ross <ross at isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rui
>>
>> I'm not a list admin, but I have seen messages from you today (including
>> this one). And I see your messages listed in the list archive:
>>
>>  http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance
>>
>> Cheers
>> - Gerard
>>
>> --
>> Gerard Ross
>> Senior Communications Manager
>> Internet Society
>> Email: ross at isoc.org
>>
>>
>> On 28/10/2008, at 10:56 PM, Correia Rui wrote:
>>
>>  Hi
>>>
>>> I have posted 2 messages today, but have not seen any come out.
>>>
>>> Would any of the list administrators kindly let me know.
>>>
>>> Rui
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>
>>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ________________________________________________
>
>
> Rui Correia
> Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant
> 2 Cutten St
> Horison
> Roodepoort-Johannesburg,
> South Africa
> Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336
> Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838
> _______________
> áâãçéêíóôõúç
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>


-- 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Mon Oct 27 22:10:59 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:10:59 -0700
Subject: AW: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
References: <745321aa0810261035t3b5c03b0v9ec2fff81b8e8a8b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <701af9f70810262118k7a71abe5of6e88c26065bc178@mail.gmail.com>
	 <p0624080bc52b1887266a@[192.168.1.2]> <49043DDA.FFE1AAA5@ix.netcom.com>
	 <4905A2E2.1090007@wzb.eu> <490521A4.307CD18F@ix.netcom.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426423@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <490674B3.3F9A7B18@ix.netcom.com>

Lleinwachter and all,

  Whom is this person?  This is the first I ever heard of such a
fantastically silly thing.  I am only the Spokesman for INEGroup.

  Me thinks that this person if he/she actually is earnest, is making such
announcements in jest.  I wouldn't pay it much mind.

  Further, INEGroup doesn't have anywhere near the 50 ministers
in any EU governments as members or past members that I am
aware of.  We do have some few that were INEGroup members,
but sense they have taken office in order to avoid COI, they have
resigned as members.  We also do have members in more than
100 countries, most of which have their own chapters accordingly
and some of them have advisory positions with various governments.

  I hope this clarifies...???

Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote:

> Dear Jeff
>
> I met last week a guy from Germany who wants to become a member of the German Bundestag after next years elections. He outet himself as member of the INEGroup. He told me that they have ministers in more than 50 governments around the globe and are very active in more than 2000 online-lists everywhere. And he admires you as the most respected leader and godfather of the whole movement. He will organize a "Jeff Williams Celebration Day" in 2009 at May, 17, which is also the "World Internet Day". One of the purpose of the Day - he expects hundreds of speakers from all over the world - is to create a "Jeff Williams Fan Club" (JEWIFAC). The JEWIFAC Preparatory Group (PrepGrou) as already asked a world wide known composer to write a "Jeff Williams Anthem" in D-Dur. Are you aware of his activities and what is your recommendation?  How we can help?
>
> Best wishes
>
> Wolfgang
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Von: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com]
> Gesendet: Mo 27.10.2008 03:04
> An: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Betreff: Re: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
>
> Jeanette and all,
>
>   Certainly selective sensorship works.  I employ it when and where
> necessary and justified ethically speaking.  I cannot of course say
> for myself that such applies to myself or any of our INEGroup members.
> Thankfully Jeanette is one of a tiny few that does.  But idologically
> extream often take such a position...
>
> Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > the best thing is to filter emails from Jeffrey and ignore him. This
> > reduces the noise to those who keep replying to Jeffrey's emails. I have
> > been doing this for years and it works well.
> > jeanette
> >
> > Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> > > Adam and all,
> > >
> > >   Sorry Adam, your incorrect.  INEGroup is registered and is
> > > filed with the US FEC.  Submitting a FOIA request, which has been
> > > done on several occasions, will give you the factual information
> > > via an independant source that you need or desire.  Further
> > > we are registered with Edgar and DOC/NTIA as of 1998 which
> > > you can check out for yourself if you so choose, also via a
> > > FOIA request as well.  So as always, do your due diligance
> > > if you desire accordingly.
> > >
> > >   Sorry everyone else, but Adam is publically here challanging
> > > me and INEGroup, yet he has never submitted the legally proper
> > > FOIA request to be making the FALSE statement he is making
> > > below.  However Adam has had from time to time disagreements
> > > with our members positions and has demonstrated privately
> > > via Email that he has a personal vendetta, as I would and others
> > > whom have reviewed independantly those Email at my request,
> > > discribed such.  This is unfortunate and certainly not any of
> > > my doing.  But if you wish, I can forward those Email to any
> > > of you for your review upon request and a signed non disclosure
> > > agreement if you provide a mailing address or via forward by
> > > Email if you have a valid and up to date, Class 2 cert.
> > >
> > >   But Adam is correct about one thing, that member count in
> > > my sig file below, is not fully up to date.  That is simply because
> > > I don't yet have an accurate count, but our membership is now
> > > estimated to be closer to 284,000 members presently.  However
> > > until I recieve an accurate count, I will not be updating my Sig file
> > > to reflect the correct figure accordingly so as not to be misleading.
> > >
> > > Adam Peake wrote:
> > >
> > >>> Hi Ian and Parminder,
> > >>>
> > >>> Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity crisis please?
> > >> Why?
> > >>
> > >> Jeff Williams has been posting to ICANN and general Internet lists
> > >> for years. You will find plenty of notes about who he is (or is not)
> > >> and about the claims he makes.
> > >>
> > >> He closes every email with a .sig that's patently untrue.  There is
> > >> no INEGroup LLA, no 281k members/stakeholders.
> > >>
> > >> You judge if you want to bother replying. I'd suggest best just to
> > >> ignore him.  It's not about substance, some of his emails are as sane
> > >> as anyone else's, some are inflammatory, some are just silly. As the
> > >> subject lines suggests it's best not to feed the troll. And to use
> > >> another online cliche... your mileage may vary.
> > >>
> > >> I am not Paddy bateman,, but I agree with his/her comment.
> > >>
> > >> It would also be best not to continue this thread!
> > >>
> > >> Adam
> > >>
> > >>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman
> > >>> <pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>  > For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff Williams,
> > >>>>  please consider that his only role in the Internet community is as a
> > >>>>  longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
> > >>>>  Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the past decade.
> > >>>>  It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping this list
> > >>>>  useful is to completely ignore his posts.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  For more background information, see here:
> > >>>  > http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
> > >>>>  And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail, which he
> > >>>>  probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first ask him
> > >>>>  where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup LLA", the
> > >>>>  imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If INEGroup LLA
> > >>>>  actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
> > >>>>  members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would think
> > >>>>  there might be some public information available. You'd also think that one
> > >>>>  or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We do not need
> > >>>>  his distractions.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  -pb
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  ____________________________________________________________
> > >>>>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>>>  To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > >>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  For all list information and functions, see:
> > >>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards.
> > >>> --------------------------
> > >>> Fouad Bajwa
> > >>> ____________________________________________________________
> > >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > >>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>>
> > >>> For all list information and functions, see:
> > >>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > >> ____________________________________________________________
> > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > >>
> > >> For all list information and functions, see:
> > >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> > >    Abraham Lincoln
> > >
> > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> > >
> > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > > ===============================================================
> > > Updated 1/26/04
> > > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________________________________________________________
> > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > >
> > > For all list information and functions, see:
> > >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> Regards,
>
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>    Abraham Lincoln
>
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Mon Oct 27 22:21:38 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:21:38 -0700
Subject: [governance] Perhaps off topic: Open Rights Group looking for
 Executive Director
Message-ID: <49067732.997535DB@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  FYI and FWIW, the following challanging position has been
made known to me and others.  Seems that tis position without
a budget and only two staff would be very challaging for anyone,
but for someone that is up to the challange, I sure a very rewarding
opertunity.  Any takers?  If so contact Becky at
becky at openrightsgroup.org

See:
Executive Director, Open Rights Group

The Open Rights Group (ORG) is a UK grassroots technology organisation
which exists to protect civil liberties wherever they are threatened
by the poor understanding, implementation and regulation of digital
technology. We call these rights our "digital rights".

 From early 2009 ORG is seeking its next Executive Director. Reporting
to the Board, the post requires:

    * an effective advocate/campaigner with political and media
experience
    * ability to further build ORG's reputation as a rational and
relevant voice in the digital rights debate
    * full professional responsibility for day to day operations
    * plan and execute the medium-term strategy to keep ORG
financially sustainable
    * manage possible move to charitable status
    * line manager for ORG staff (currently two)
    * primary point of liaison with ORG supporters and volunteers
    * a self-starter able to build ORG even as he or she runs its
daily operations.

It is a challenging and responsible role. Rewards include the
opportunity to have a direct and substantial effect on contemporary
policy, and the chance to work with some of the smartest creative
minds in the place where geek world meets law, policy and activism.
While this is likely to be a fulltime post the Board will consider
part-time and jobshare applications.

Please apply with CV and covering letter to info [AT] openrightsgroup
[DOT] org. Deadline for applications is Wednesday 12 November.

For a detailed job description, click here:
http://www.openrightsgroup.org/about-org/work-at-org/executive-director-job-description-october-2008/

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Mon Oct 27 22:26:18 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:26:18 -0700
Subject: [governance] International Telecommunication Union criticised
 forits
References: <ec8caada0810280743k71e1a6fdkadb9c284b8e81871@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49067849.7D0149A6@ix.netcom.com>

Rui and all,

  Yes the ITU has been enguaged in this sort of activity for a number
of years but has been able for most of that time to keep it under
wraps or not verifiable.  I share in the disgust myself, as do most
of our members in this sort of activity.

Rui Correia wrote:

> 27.10.2008 13:35
>
> « Previous | Next »
>
> International Telecommunication Union criticised for its role in
> internet snooping
>
> At EuroDIG, the first European Dialogue on Internet Governance, the
> scientists and experts of the Council of Europe have sharply
> criticised the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) for acting
> behind closed doors in its initiatives towards cybersecurity
> standardization. Bertrand de la Chapelle, godfather of the first
> EuroDIG on behalf of the French government, said EuroDIG should tell
> the ITU to allow all interest groups to participate in discussing new
> technology standards. The recent meeting in Strasbourg emphasized the
> idea of cooperation between governments, the industry and users as one
> of the central points to be presented at the UN Internet Governance
> Forum in Hyderabad.
>
>
> Just recently, the ITU's work on standards
> for back-tracing IP addresses caused something of a furore. Yet, said
> Bill Drake, a scientist at the Center for International Governance at
> the Graduate School in Geneva, this work was only a tiny part of the
> work being done in the sensitive area of IT security. He warned that
> China, Russia and the USA could become the new axis of evil, pushing
> forward the integration of new ways of snooping on the internet. There
> was in his view an ambitious agenda extending beyond technical
> questions all the way up to legal regulations to counter cybercrime.
>
> If you had access to the documents, Drake said, you could see
> everything that was going on, but the ITU was not an open
> organisation. Drake's criticism was echoed by other representatives of
> non-governmental organisations, complaining that draft standards in
> domains that were of great significance for all users, such as
> identity management, were not being made available to the public or to
> interested circles. Drake warned that ITU member countries and its
> member firms might thus be setting the agenda for the ways and means
> in which the internet could be used in future. When he mentioned
> possible problems with the work of the ITU to non-governmental
> organisations, he said, they dismissed the ITU as a powerless
> "dinosaur". But he recommended by contrast that European governments
> and organizations should make a clear demand for more transparency
> from the ITU. If Europe did not do this, he stressed, neither the USA,
> Russia, nor China could be expected to do so.
>
> Thomas Schneider of the Swiss Office for Communications pointed out
> that, during the last general meeting of the ITU, the so called
> Plenipotentiary Conference of the Member Countries, a series of
> European countries had insisted, jointly with Switzerland, on the ITU
> experimentally allowing public access to the technology documents. The
> ITU had now carried out a series of consultations, he said, but each
> time only a handful of experts had spoken up. If the Europeans did not
> get involved in this process, it was to some extent their problem.
>
> Alexander Seger, head of the Council of Europe's Division of Economic
> Crime, expressed further criticism of the ITU. Up to a year ago, he
> said, the experts of the Council of Europe had worked together quite
> well with the ITU as the organisation commissioned with following up
> on the World Summit on the Information Society. But, ever since the
> ITU had published its cybersecurity agenda, there had been enormous
> problems with such cooperation. Seger demanded that the ITU return to
> its role as an organizer of the process. The Council of Europe is also
> concentrating heavily on the topic of security as a custodian of the
> Cybercrime Convention.
>
> See also:
>
>    * EU to take action against "cyberbullying" and "cybergrooming"
>
> (Monika Ermert) (jk/c't)
>
> --
> ________________________________________________
>
>
> Rui Correia
> Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant
> 2 Cutten St
> Horison
> Roodepoort-Johannesburg,
> South Africa
> Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336
> Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838
> _______________
> áâãçéêíóôõúç
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Mon Oct 27 22:58:34 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:58:34 -0700
Subject: [governance] IP-Watch: World Customs Organization Publications
References: <C9.2C.12707.0D977094@mail15>
Message-ID: <49067FDA.2A57C594@ix.netcom.com>

William and all,

  I remember you.  Indeed IP-Watch does not have members
per se.  I am a mailing list subscriber only.  I passed this along
for what should be obvious reasons.  Perhaps attempting to
keep everyone informed as any responsible person would, isn't
something that the IGC supports?  If so, please excuse my
attempt, and feel free to enguage in the politics of personal
attacks as has been the emphisis on this forum of late...

William New wrote:

> Hi, thanks for the posting, but just wanted to clarify that IP-Watch does
> not have "members." Perhaps Jeff Williams is signed up for the free email
> alerts or RSS feeds of our news stories.
>
> William New, Editor-in-Chief, Intellectual Property Watch, Geneva,
> Switzerland
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 3:00 AM
> To: Governance/IGC
> Subject: [governance] IP-Watch: World Customs Organization Publications
> Copyright Policy Questioned
>
> All,
>
>   As a member of IP-Watch the following struck me as significant,
> and directly relevant to Internet governance on a number of levels.
>
>   As an FYI:
>
>  <http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/wp-trackback.php?p=1280>
> http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/wp-trackback.php?p=1280
>
> Intellectual Property Watch
>
> World Customs Organization Publications Copyright Policy Questioned
>
> By William New
> In an unusual policy for an international organisation, the World
> Customs Organization imposes copyright over every document its
> bodies produce, even agendas, which means that no document can
> be reproduced without the organisation's express consent.
>
> But now some member governments are questioning this practice, which
> they say was intended only for the organisation to protect the rights in
> publications made for sale or containing proprietary information, and is
> now blocking access to information about the organisation's work.
>
> The issue has come to a head in recent months as part of a growing
> controversy around a WCO working group on enforcement that potentially
> puts customs officials in the role of judging counterfeit and pirated
> goods directly and without judges or other authorities.
>
> The next and fourth meeting of the SECURE (Standards to be Employed by
> Customs for Uniform Rights Enforcement) working group is 30-31 October
> at the WCO in Brussels. Quoting from a copy of the agenda obtained by
> Intellectual Property Watch, expected items for discussion include
> adoption of the third working group report; discussion and adoption
> of the terms of reference working draft and revised proposed action
> plan; review and further development of the working draft of the
> SECURE document of 25 April; a private-sector presentation by Philips;
> and under other business, a presentation by the UN Universal Postal
> Union, and, lastly, "discussion of process document from Brazil and
> Argentina."
>
> Brazil and Argentina requested the agenda item be called, "Transparency,
> legitimacy and a member-driven process," but the WCO secretariat chose
> to call it simply a "discussion of process document."
>
> In late September, Brazil and Argentina asked the secretariat to
> circulate a document entitled, "Ensuring transparency and a
> legitimate, member-driven process in the SECURE working group."
> The author governments requested the document to be considered
> an official document, but it was only considered a "non-paper,"
> the sources said.
>
> At the last meeting of the SECURE working group in June, several
> members, including Argentina, Brazil, China, Cuba, Ecuador and
> Uruguay, raised the concern that their voices were not heard in
> the preparation of the draft set of standards on enforcement (
> <http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/wp-trackback.php?p=1117> IPW,
> Enforcement, 27 June 2008). Intellectual Property Watch was
> ordered by WCO to take down a document from that meeting.
>
> The 189-member Universal Postal Union recently came under scrutiny as
> well for a sudden upswing in discussion of enforcement activities.
> The UPU Congress in August reportedly adopted a resolution that
> encouraged members to identify counterfeit and pirated items in the
> postal network and to cooperate with the relevant national and
> international authorities in awareness-raising initiatives to
> prevent illegal circulation of counterfeit goods. But a number
> of countries were concerned that the postal service did not have
> the scope or necessary legal and other expertise to implement
> such a resolution, in particular the expertise to determine
> whether a product is counterfeit or violates IP laws. The resolution's
> adoption was appealed, according to sources.
>
> Publication Policy or Information Control?
>
> The WCO limits circulation of its documents in several ways. It posts
> to documents, even meeting agendas, that "for reasons of economy,
> documents are printed in limited number. Delegates are kindly asked
> to bring their copies to meetings and not to request additional
> copies." WCO then adds: "Copyright C 2008 World Customs Organization.
> All rights reserved. Requests and inquiries concerning translation,
> reproduction and adaptation rights should be addressed to
> copyright at wcoomd.org."
>
> In order to access documents, passwords are needed, according to a
> source. But it is unclear why a copyright is used to protect negotiating
> documents used by elected governments, when the documents are not
> expected to be offered for sale or any other apparent disadvantage to
> the organisation's secretariat.
>
> The WCO could not comment on its copyright policy by presstime. New WCO
> Secretary General Kunio Mikuriya takes office in the new year.
>
> Regards,
>
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>    Abraham Lincoln
>
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827




____________________________________________________________
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     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Mon Oct 27 23:21:30 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:21:30 -0700
Subject: [governance] testing - for list administrators only
References: <sympa.1225228318.50609.60@lists.cpsr.org>
		 <9B5EACC9-E1C1-4938-9328-4A8B3D7B4A1C@isoc.org>
		 <ec8caada0810281503q2cd7c592ha4d1793c87d82fbe@mail.gmail.com> <fecfce260810281521j464ff460le55104330fd70af5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49068539.69496A8C@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  Does this forum have a qualified list admin?  Seems not.  I have
also noticed a discrepency in the archives as to date/time stamps
as well.  As such if an audit is ever requested or court ordered,
it won't go well for cpsr.org accordingly.  Thankfully I keep
a complete archive!  And it is Date/time stamped certified.

BTW, will cspr be getting it's DNS cleaned up anytime soon?
See:
http://member.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnslite.php?r=homepage&domain=cpsr.org
and
http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=cspr.org&token=01d02307c886b2c516a4ca8418d5a019

Open DNS servers is a definate No-No, and exposes any recipient
to spyware, malware, intrusion, ect...  I however remain unsurprised
as Afilias is managing the Name servers as well as the DNS for
cspr.

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:

> Hello Rui Correia,
>
> Some times the message settings in a list is such that the person
> posting a message does not receive a copy of the message posted. This
> is on the assumption that the person posting a message already has a
> copy of the message posted. I think this is what happened.
>
> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 3:33 AM, Rui Correia <correia.rui at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>      Hi Gerard
>
>      Thanks. I'll go look at the archive. I sent the test
>      straight from the list website and received it. The others I
>      did not receive. Odd.
>
>      Thanks again,
>
>      Rui
>
>       On 28/10/2008, Gerard Ross <ross at isoc.org> wrote:
>
>            Hi Rui
>
>           I'm not a list admin, but I have seen messages
>           from you today (including this one). And I see
>           your messages listed in the list archive:
>
>            http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance
>
>           Cheers
>           - Gerard
>
>           --
>           Gerard Ross
>           Senior Communications Manager
>           Internet Society
>           Email: ross at isoc.org
>
>
>           On 28/10/2008, at 10:56 PM, Correia Rui wrote:
>
>
>                Hi
>
>                I have posted 2 messages today, but have
>                not seen any come out.
>
>                Would any of the list administrators
>                kindly let me know.
>
>                Rui
>                ___
>                ________________________________________________________
>
>                You received this message as a
>                subscriber on the list:
>                   governance at lists.cpsr.org
>                To be removed from the list, send any
>                message to:
>                   governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
>                For all list information and functions,
>                see:
>
>                http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>
>
>
>
>      --
>      ________________________________________________
>
>
>      Rui Correia
>      Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant
>      2 Cutten St
>      Horison
>      Roodepoort-Johannesburg,
>      South Africa
>      Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336
>      Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838
>      _______________
>      áâãçéêíóôõúç
>      ____________________________________________________________
>
>      You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>          governance at lists.cpsr.org
>      To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>          governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
>      For all list information and functions, see:
>          http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


From ian.peter at ianpeter.com  Tue Oct 28 22:30:20 2008
From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:30:20 +1100
Subject: [governance] Public warning re postings on Internet Governance
 Caucus mailing list
Message-ID: <1EE26E5D3777428287E71ACFF0DD54EB@IAN>

Jeffrey,

 

 

As co-coordinators of the Internet Governance Caucus mailing list Parminder
and I have received a number of complaints about your postings on the list.
Further to the recent private warning we sent you, I am following up with a
public warning.

 

In accordance with the charter, please note this is a public warning to you
re your postings. If necessary, it will be followed by suspension for one
month. There will be no further warnings or notice of imminent suspension.

 

Please limit your postings to the list to no more than 4 per day. While we
will tolerate odd exceptions to this rule we will not tolerate the mailing
list content being dominated by any one person. 

 

Please ensure your postings are relevant to the subject matter being
discussed.

 

Please do not repeat comments on the same subject.

 

Be conservative in what you send (in volume).

 

Thanks,

 

 

Ian Peter (on behalf of the co-coordinators))

 

 

 

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     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From isolatedn at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 00:58:24 2008
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:28:24 +0530
Subject: [governance] Tech giants in human rights deal
In-Reply-To: <877975.87579.qm@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <877975.87579.qm@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fecfce260810282158r2abe08b6ue7b9b51ef0d84ac0@mail.gmail.com>

Hello

This is a very positive contribution from Business to the global society.
Business Corporations, however big they are, could be arm twisted into a
position favorable to the Authority. Microsoft went through severe problems
a few years ago by way of anti-trust proceedings, which might not have been
aimed at winning Microsoft's support for anything, but that is one of the
examples to show that the Authorities have the power to make or break a
business corporation, even  the ones that are healthy and huge.

Microsoft, Google and Yahoo could take this deal further and include other
business entities, big and small, not only in India but the world over to
enhance the capacity of Business to resist pressures from Authorities to
cause Businesses compromise on issues related to freedom of speech and other
rights and civil liberties.

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy



On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:05 AM, kwasi boakye-akyeampong <
kboakye1 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> My apologies for cross posting.
>
> Kwasi
> **
> *Tech giants in human rights deal*
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7696356.stm
>
>   By Maggie Shiels
> Technology reporter, BBC News, Silicon Valley
>
>   [image: People using the internet in Beijing] Google was accused of
> censoring 2% of search results in China
>
> *Microsoft, Google and Yahoo have signed a global code of conduct
> promising to offer better protection for online free speech and against
> official intrusion.*
> The Global Network Initiative follows criticism that companies were
> assisting governments in countries like China to censor the Internet. The
> guidelines seek to limit what data should be shared with authorities, in
> cases where free speech is an issue. "This is an important first step,"
> said Mike Posner of Human Rights First. He told the BBC "What this is is a
> recognition by all these tech companies, the human rights groups and social
> investors that there has to be a collective response to this growing
> problem. "Companies need to step up to the plate and be more aggressive in
> challenging unwarranted government interference," he said. The initiative
> states that privacy is "a human right and guarantor of human dignity," and
> the agreement commits the companies to try to resist overly broad demands
> for restrictions on freedom of speech and the privacy of users. They will
> also assess the human rights climate in a country before concluding business
> deals and make sure their employees and partners follow suit. "These
> principles are not going to be a silver bullet, but the most important point
> for me is to provide transparency," said Danny O'Brien of the Electronic
> Frontier Foundation. "We have joined this initiative because we know that
> a wide range of groups working together can achieve much more than the
> company acting alone," said Andrew McLaughlin, Google's director of global
> public policy. *'Valuable roadmap'* The impetus for such an agreement
> follows years of criticism that a number of businesses, including Google,
> Yahoo and Microsoft have complicity built what has been dubbed the "Great
> Firewall of China".   [image: Screen grab of Skype website] Skype say they
> are abiding by Chinese laws over internet use
> Google has been accused of complying with Chinese government demands to
> filter internet searches to eliminate query results regarding topics such as
> democracy or Tiananmen Square. Microsoft has come under attack for
> blocking the blog of a prominent Chinese Media researcher who posted
> articles critical of a management purge at the Beijing News Daily. Canadian
> researchers uncovered that a Skype joint venture in China monitored users'
> communications. And a Chinese reporter Shi Tao was jailed for 10 years
> after Yahoo China provided his personal information to the Chinese
> government. Today Yahoo co-founder and CEO Jerry Yang welcomed the new
> code of conduct. "These principles provide a valuable roadmap for
> companies like Yahoo operating in markets where freedom of expression and
> privacy are unfairly restricted.   [image: Shi Tao, file picture] Shi
> Tao's jailing sparked a controversy of Yahoo business practices in China
> "Yahoo was founded on the belief that promoting access to information can
> enrich people's lives and the principles we unveiled today reflect our
> determination that our actions match our values around the world," said Mr
> Yang. While China has been painted as the worst abuser, Colin Maclay of
> the Berkman Centre for Internet and Society at Harvard University said there
> are other countries and governments all over the world at fault. "The
> number of states actively seeking to censor online content and access
> personal information is growing. "And the means employed - technical,
> social, legal, political - are increasingly sophisticated, often placing
> internet and telecommunications companies in difficult positions." *'Business
> case'* The Global Network Initiative was drawn up by the internet
> companies along with human rights groups, academics and investors. Adam
> Kanzer who is the managing director and general counsel at Domini Social
> Investments said as well as being the right thing to do, it also makes good
> business sense. He told BBC News "When you see the industry being caught
> up in the tactics of various regimes around the world, the business case is
> very clear. Freedom of expression and privacy is core to their business. "They
> depend on a wide open, freely accessible and secure internet. That's what
> they are about. If people don't trust the internet and believe they are
> secure, then that is counterproductive to their business."   [image:
> Computer keyboard, Eyewire] The plan has yet to receive the support of
> internet companies in China
> The effort is already being seen by some as not going far enough. "After
> two years of effort, they have ended up with so little," said Morton Sklar
> executive director for the World Organisation for Human Rights USA. "It is
> very little more than a broad statement of support for a general principle
> without any concrete backup mechanism to ensure that the guidelines will be
> followed." Mr Posner of Human Rights First disputes that and said this
> agreement has not been set up as a "gotcha system" but as a way "to work
> with companies to get them to improve what they are doing, credit them when
> they do it and call them out if they fail." While it is hoped many more
> companies will sign up, two European telecommunications firms, France
> Telecom and Vodafone, are already said to be considering adding their names.
>
>
>
>
> *
> ..............................................................................................................................
> *
> *"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what
> am I?    And if not now, when?"* - Rabbi Hillel
> *
> ..............................................................................................................................
> <http://agyakwasi.blogspot.com/>
> *
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>


-- 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
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From marzouki at ras.eu.org  Wed Oct 29 05:55:52 2008
From: marzouki at ras.eu.org (Meryem Marzouki)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:55:52 +0100
Subject: [governance] Tech giants in human rights deal 
In-Reply-To: <877975.87579.qm@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <877975.87579.qm@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8001BBA4-C322-49F2-BCEC-B01D0F5E44DF@ras.eu.org>

See also more information on Global Network initiative at: http:// 
www.globalnetworkinitiative.org, and dissenting voice from RSF  
(explaining why they haven't signed the deal) at: http://www.rsf.org/ 
article.php3?id_article=29117

Meryem Marzouki

--
Meryem Marzouki - http://www.iris.sgdg.org
IRIS - Imaginons un réseau Internet solidaire
40 rue de la Justice - 75020 Paris
Tel. +33(0)144749239


Le 29 oct. 08 à 05:35, kwasi boakye-akyeampong a écrit :

> My apologies for cross posting.
>
> Kwasi
>
> Tech giants in human rights deal
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7696356.stm
>
> By Maggie Shiels
> Technology reporter, BBC News, Silicon Valley
>
>
> Google was accused of censoring 2% of search results in China
> Microsoft, Google and Yahoo have signed a global code of conduct  
> promising to offer better protection for online free speech and  
> against official intrusion.
>
> The Global Network Initiative follows criticism that companies were  
> assisting governments in countries like China to censor the Internet.
> The guidelines seek to limit what data should be shared with  
> authorities, in cases where free speech is an issue.
> "This is an important first step," said Mike Posner of Human Rights  
> First.
> He told the BBC "What this is is a recognition by all these tech  
> companies, the human rights groups and social investors that there  
> has to be a collective response to this growing problem.
> "Companies need to step up to the plate and be more aggressive in  
> challenging unwarranted government interference," he said.
> The initiative states that privacy is "a human right and guarantor  
> of human dignity," and the agreement commits the companies to try  
> to resist overly broad demands for restrictions on freedom of  
> speech and the privacy of users.
> They will also assess the human rights climate in a country before  
> concluding business deals and make sure their employees and  
> partners follow suit.
> "These principles are not going to be a silver bullet, but the most  
> important point for me is to provide transparency," said Danny  
> O'Brien of the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
> "We have joined this initiative because we know that a wide range  
> of groups working together can achieve much more than the company  
> acting alone," said Andrew McLaughlin, Google's director of global  
> public policy.
> 'Valuable roadmap'
> The impetus for such an agreement follows years of criticism that a  
> number of businesses, including Google, Yahoo and Microsoft have  
> complicity built what has been dubbed the "Great Firewall of China".
>
> Skype say they are abiding by Chinese laws over internet use
> Google has been accused of complying with Chinese government  
> demands to filter internet searches to eliminate query results  
> regarding topics such as democracy or Tiananmen Square.
> Microsoft has come under attack for blocking the blog of a  
> prominent Chinese Media researcher who posted articles critical of  
> a management purge at the Beijing News Daily.
> Canadian researchers uncovered that a Skype joint venture in China  
> monitored users' communications.
> And a Chinese reporter Shi Tao was jailed for 10 years after Yahoo  
> China provided his personal information to the Chinese government.
> Today Yahoo co-founder and CEO Jerry Yang welcomed the new code of  
> conduct.
> "These principles provide a valuable roadmap for companies like  
> Yahoo operating in markets where freedom of expression and privacy  
> are unfairly restricted.
>
> Shi Tao's jailing sparked a controversy of Yahoo business practices  
> in China
> "Yahoo was founded on the belief that promoting access to  
> information can enrich people's lives and the principles we  
> unveiled today reflect our determination that our actions match our  
> values around the world," said Mr Yang.
> While China has been painted as the worst abuser, Colin Maclay of  
> the Berkman Centre for Internet and Society at Harvard University  
> said there are other countries and governments all over the world  
> at fault.
> "The number of states actively seeking to censor online content and  
> access personal information is growing.
> "And the means employed - technical, social, legal, political - are  
> increasingly sophisticated, often placing internet and  
> telecommunications companies in difficult positions."
> 'Business case'
> The Global Network Initiative was drawn up by the internet  
> companies along with human rights groups, academics and investors.
> Adam Kanzer who is the managing director and general counsel at  
> Domini Social Investments said as well as being the right thing to  
> do, it also makes good business sense.
> He told BBC News "When you see the industry being caught up in the  
> tactics of various regimes around the world, the business case is  
> very clear. Freedom of expression and privacy is core to their  
> business.
> "They depend on a wide open, freely accessible and secure internet.  
> That's what they are about. If people don't trust the internet and  
> believe they are secure, then that is counterproductive to their  
> business."
>
> The plan has yet to receive the support of internet companies in China
> The effort is already being seen by some as not going far enough.
> "After two years of effort, they have ended up with so little,"  
> said Morton Sklar executive director for the World Organisation for  
> Human Rights USA.
> "It is very little more than a broad statement of support for a  
> general principle without any concrete backup mechanism to ensure  
> that the guidelines will be followed."
> Mr Posner of Human Rights First disputes that and said this  
> agreement has not been set up as a "gotcha system" but as a way "to  
> work with companies to get them to improve what they are doing,  
> credit them when they do it and call them out if they fail."
> While it is hoped many more companies will sign up, two European  
> telecommunications firms, France Telecom and Vodafone, are already  
> said to be considering adding their names.
>
>
>
> ...................................................................... 
> ........................................................
> “If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for  
> others, what am I?    And if not now, when?” - Rabbi Hillel
> ...................................................................... 
> ........................................................
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


From peter at peter-dambier.de  Wed Oct 29 06:36:23 2008
From: peter at peter-dambier.de (Peter Dambier)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:36:23 +0100
Subject: [governance] Tech giants in human rights deal
In-Reply-To: <877975.87579.qm@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <877975.87579.qm@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49083CA7.8050308@peter-dambier.de>

Sorry,

accidently been reading

Microsoft, Google and Yahoo to offer better protection from online free speech.

Whenever you have time or get unexpected results try to compare

google.de - keep the interface in german
google.fr - french interface
google.sp - keep the interface in spanish
google.it - keep the interface in italian
google.nl - keep the interface in dutch

Even "harmless" queries for a bank or a cult might give you the pros in
one language and the cons in the other e.g. the company in german the
trade union in french, querying for a german company.

As long as you dont look for Berlusconi, italian might be the
best joice. If you want to find the lies only, try english.

Well, we dont depend on google. There are other search engines - I only
cannot remember which ones.


Kind regards
Peter


kwasi boakye-akyeampong wrote:
> My apologies for cross posting.
>  
> Kwasi
> *__* 
> *_Tech giants in human rights deal_*
>  
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7696356.stm
> 
> By Maggie Shiels
> Technology reporter, BBC News, Silicon Valley
> 
> 
> People using the internet in Beijing
> Google was accused of censoring 2% of search results in China
> 
> *Microsoft, Google and Yahoo have signed a global code of conduct
> promising to offer better protection for online free speech and against
> official intrusion.*
> 
> The Global Network Initiative follows criticism that companies were
> assisting governments in countries like China to censor the Internet.
> The guidelines seek to limit what data should be shared with
> authorities, in cases where free speech is an issue.
> "This is an important first step," said Mike Posner of Human Rights First.
> He told the BBC "What this is is a recognition by all these tech
> companies, the human rights groups and social investors that there has
> to be a collective response to this growing problem.
> "Companies need to step up to the plate and be more aggressive in
> challenging unwarranted government interference," he said.
> The initiative states that privacy is "a human right and guarantor of
> human dignity," and the agreement commits the companies to try to resist
> overly broad demands for restrictions on freedom of speech and the
> privacy of users.
> They will also assess the human rights climate in a country before
> concluding business deals and make sure their employees and partners
> follow suit.
> "These principles are not going to be a silver bullet, but the most
> important point for me is to provide transparency," said Danny O'Brien
> of the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
> "We have joined this initiative because we know that a wide range of
> groups working together can achieve much more than the company acting
> alone," said Andrew McLaughlin, Google's director of global public policy.
> *'Valuable roadmap'*
> The impetus for such an agreement follows years of criticism that a
> number of businesses, including Google, Yahoo and Microsoft have
> complicity built what has been dubbed the "Great Firewall of China".
> Screen grab of Skype website
> Skype say they are abiding by Chinese laws over internet use
> 
> Google has been accused of complying with Chinese government demands to
> filter internet searches to eliminate query results regarding topics
> such as democracy or Tiananmen Square.
> Microsoft has come under attack for blocking the blog of a prominent
> Chinese Media researcher who posted articles critical of a management
> purge at the Beijing News Daily.
> Canadian researchers uncovered that a Skype joint venture in China
> monitored users' communications.
> And a Chinese reporter Shi Tao was jailed for 10 years after Yahoo China
> provided his personal information to the Chinese government.
> Today Yahoo co-founder and CEO Jerry Yang welcomed the new code of conduct.
> "These principles provide a valuable roadmap for companies like Yahoo
> operating in markets where freedom of expression and privacy are
> unfairly restricted.
> Shi Tao, file picture
> Shi Tao's jailing sparked a controversy of Yahoo business practices in China
> 
> "Yahoo was founded on the belief that promoting access to information
> can enrich people's lives and the principles we unveiled today reflect
> our determination that our actions match our values around the world,"
> said Mr Yang.
> While China has been painted as the worst abuser, Colin Maclay of the
> Berkman Centre for Internet and Society at Harvard University said there
> are other countries and governments all over the world at fault.
> "The number of states actively seeking to censor online content and
> access personal information is growing.
> "And the means employed - technical, social, legal, political - are
> increasingly sophisticated, often placing internet and
> telecommunications companies in difficult positions."
> *'Business case'*
> The Global Network Initiative was drawn up by the internet companies
> along with human rights groups, academics and investors.
> Adam Kanzer who is the managing director and general counsel at Domini
> Social Investments said as well as being the right thing to do, it also
> makes good business sense.
> He told BBC News "When you see the industry being caught up in the
> tactics of various regimes around the world, the business case is very
> clear. Freedom of expression and privacy is core to their business.
> "They depend on a wide open, freely accessible and secure internet.
> That's what they are about. If people don't trust the internet and
> believe they are secure, then that is counterproductive to their business."
> Computer keyboard, Eyewire
> The plan has yet to receive the support of internet companies in China
> 
> The effort is already being seen by some as not going far enough.
> "After two years of effort, they have ended up with so little," said
> Morton Sklar executive director for the World Organisation for Human
> Rights USA.
> "It is very little more than a broad statement of support for a general
> principle without any concrete backup mechanism to ensure that the
> guidelines will be followed."
> Mr Posner of Human Rights First disputes that and said this agreement
> has not been set up as a "gotcha system" but as a way "to work with
> companies to get them to improve what they are doing, credit them when
> they do it and call them out if they fail."
> While it is hoped many more companies will sign up, two European
> telecommunications firms, France Telecom and Vodafone, are already said
> to be considering adding their names.
> 
> 
>  
> *..............................................................................................................................*
> *“If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others,
> what am I?    And if not now, when?”* - Rabbi Hillel
> *..............................................................................................................................
> <http://agyakwasi.blogspot.com/>
> *
> 
> 

-- 
Peter and Karin Dambier
Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
Rimbacher Strasse 16
D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
+49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
+49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
http://www.peter-dambier.de/
http://iason.site.voila.fr/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Tue Oct 28 09:51:02 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 06:51:02 -0700
Subject: [governance] Tech giants in human rights deal
References: <877975.87579.qm@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <8001BBA4-C322-49F2-BCEC-B01D0F5E44DF@ras.eu.org>
Message-ID: <490718C5.22B90C3B@ix.netcom.com>

Meryem and all,

  This is an excellent initiative in principal.  There is unfortunately
a creditability problem security wise, see:
http://member.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnslite.php?r=homepage&domain=globalnetworkinitiative.org

and
http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=globalnetworkinitiative.org&token=13302b445dcbbab11184238e2b769019

Their DNS is a significant mess and exposes anyone recieving communications
from them, to spyware, adware, and malware.  very inappropriate and
specifically dangerous.
and
http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/ip4r.ch?ip=globalnetworkinitiative.org&token=13d07d714d71b65817546d892d003019

They are a miscreant and recitative spammer.  Most unfortunate.

Perhaps in the future, they can get these problems cleaned up so
as to further their cause which I and our members share, more
fully.  I for one, look forward to that day...

Meryem Marzouki wrote:

> See also more information on Global Network initiative at: http://
> www.globalnetworkinitiative.org, and dissenting voice from RSF
> (explaining why they haven't signed the deal) at: http://www.rsf.org/
> article.php3?id_article=29117
>
> Meryem Marzouki
>
> --
> Meryem Marzouki - http://www.iris.sgdg.org
> IRIS - Imaginons un réseau Internet solidaire
> 40 rue de la Justice - 75020 Paris
> Tel. +33(0)144749239
>
> Le 29 oct. 08 à 05:35, kwasi boakye-akyeampong a écrit :
>
> > My apologies for cross posting.
> >
> > Kwasi
> >
> > Tech giants in human rights deal
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7696356.stm
> >
> > By Maggie Shiels
> > Technology reporter, BBC News, Silicon Valley
> >
> >
> > Google was accused of censoring 2% of search results in China
> > Microsoft, Google and Yahoo have signed a global code of conduct
> > promising to offer better protection for online free speech and
> > against official intrusion.
> >
> > The Global Network Initiative follows criticism that companies were
> > assisting governments in countries like China to censor the Internet.
> > The guidelines seek to limit what data should be shared with
> > authorities, in cases where free speech is an issue.
> > "This is an important first step," said Mike Posner of Human Rights
> > First.
> > He told the BBC "What this is is a recognition by all these tech
> > companies, the human rights groups and social investors that there
> > has to be a collective response to this growing problem.
> > "Companies need to step up to the plate and be more aggressive in
> > challenging unwarranted government interference," he said.
> > The initiative states that privacy is "a human right and guarantor
> > of human dignity," and the agreement commits the companies to try
> > to resist overly broad demands for restrictions on freedom of
> > speech and the privacy of users.
> > They will also assess the human rights climate in a country before
> > concluding business deals and make sure their employees and
> > partners follow suit.
> > "These principles are not going to be a silver bullet, but the most
> > important point for me is to provide transparency," said Danny
> > O'Brien of the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
> > "We have joined this initiative because we know that a wide range
> > of groups working together can achieve much more than the company
> > acting alone," said Andrew McLaughlin, Google's director of global
> > public policy.
> > 'Valuable roadmap'
> > The impetus for such an agreement follows years of criticism that a
> > number of businesses, including Google, Yahoo and Microsoft have
> > complicity built what has been dubbed the "Great Firewall of China".
> >
> > Skype say they are abiding by Chinese laws over internet use
> > Google has been accused of complying with Chinese government
> > demands to filter internet searches to eliminate query results
> > regarding topics such as democracy or Tiananmen Square.
> > Microsoft has come under attack for blocking the blog of a
> > prominent Chinese Media researcher who posted articles critical of
> > a management purge at the Beijing News Daily.
> > Canadian researchers uncovered that a Skype joint venture in China
> > monitored users' communications.
> > And a Chinese reporter Shi Tao was jailed for 10 years after Yahoo
> > China provided his personal information to the Chinese government.
> > Today Yahoo co-founder and CEO Jerry Yang welcomed the new code of
> > conduct.
> > "These principles provide a valuable roadmap for companies like
> > Yahoo operating in markets where freedom of expression and privacy
> > are unfairly restricted.
> >
> > Shi Tao's jailing sparked a controversy of Yahoo business practices
> > in China
> > "Yahoo was founded on the belief that promoting access to
> > information can enrich people's lives and the principles we
> > unveiled today reflect our determination that our actions match our
> > values around the world," said Mr Yang.
> > While China has been painted as the worst abuser, Colin Maclay of
> > the Berkman Centre for Internet and Society at Harvard University
> > said there are other countries and governments all over the world
> > at fault.
> > "The number of states actively seeking to censor online content and
> > access personal information is growing.
> > "And the means employed - technical, social, legal, political - are
> > increasingly sophisticated, often placing internet and
> > telecommunications companies in difficult positions."
> > 'Business case'
> > The Global Network Initiative was drawn up by the internet
> > companies along with human rights groups, academics and investors.
> > Adam Kanzer who is the managing director and general counsel at
> > Domini Social Investments said as well as being the right thing to
> > do, it also makes good business sense.
> > He told BBC News "When you see the industry being caught up in the
> > tactics of various regimes around the world, the business case is
> > very clear. Freedom of expression and privacy is core to their
> > business.
> > "They depend on a wide open, freely accessible and secure internet.
> > That's what they are about. If people don't trust the internet and
> > believe they are secure, then that is counterproductive to their
> > business."
> >
> > The plan has yet to receive the support of internet companies in China
> > The effort is already being seen by some as not going far enough.
> > "After two years of effort, they have ended up with so little,"
> > said Morton Sklar executive director for the World Organisation for
> > Human Rights USA.
> > "It is very little more than a broad statement of support for a
> > general principle without any concrete backup mechanism to ensure
> > that the guidelines will be followed."
> > Mr Posner of Human Rights First disputes that and said this
> > agreement has not been set up as a "gotcha system" but as a way "to
> > work with companies to get them to improve what they are doing,
> > credit them when they do it and call them out if they fail."
> > While it is hoped many more companies will sign up, two European
> > telecommunications firms, France Telecom and Vodafone, are already
> > said to be considering adding their names.
> >
> >
> >
> > ......................................................................
> > ........................................................
> > “If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for
> > others, what am I?    And if not now, when?” - Rabbi Hillel
> > ......................................................................
> > ........................................................
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



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From isolatedn at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 08:04:44 2008
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:34:44 +0530
Subject: [governance] Tech giants in human rights deal
In-Reply-To: <8001BBA4-C322-49F2-BCEC-B01D0F5E44DF@ras.eu.org>
References: <877975.87579.qm@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	 <8001BBA4-C322-49F2-BCEC-B01D0F5E44DF@ras.eu.org>
Message-ID: <fecfce260810290504o291070aav6b27549bab3b7cf3@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Meryem Marzouki,

Global Network Initiative appears to be an interesting initiative from the
Corporate Sector which is traditionally perceived not to be in tune with
Civil Society's concerns.

Reporters Sans Frontieres haven't become a part of this initiative due to
these concerns as published in the page
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=29117

  1 - Local law remains the reference even if it violates international
human rights standards. Thus, participating companies will comply with
repressive regimes who have at their disposal an arsenal of legal provisions
aimed at silencing dissidents.

[image: -]  2 - The extent to which companies are expected to challenge
governments' requests remains unclear. Requests in writing are sought but
not mandatory.

[image: -]  3 - Companies could still enter into business relationships
(joint ventures, mergers) with local partners that do not follow the
principles, then bypass the restrictions imposed by the principles and blame
the local entity (such as Alibaba for Yahoo!) in case of violations of
freedom of expression or collaboration for the arrest of dissidents.

[image: -]  4 - Disclosure to users and transparency regarding the type of
personal information retained by ITC companies' remains unsatisfactory..
Users have no assurances that companies will try to minimize data
collection, nor do they know how long this data will be saved.

[image: -]  5 - The assessors' independence and impartiality as well as the
extent to which companies' will provide them with the necessary information
to monitor developments remains uncertain.
These are valid points. But better raised as a participant of this
initiative rather than as an outsider.  RSF could begin by appreciating this
initiative from the unexpected quarters and then go on to further strengthen
the initiative by drawing attention to the concerns as listed above.

I feel that RSF's concerns would be better addressed if it participates.

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
ISOC India Chennai.
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Meryem Marzouki <marzouki at ras.eu.org>wrote:

> See also more information on Global Network initiative at: http://
> www.globalnetworkinitiative.org, and dissenting voice from RSF (explaining
> why they haven't signed the deal) at: http://www.rsf.org/
> article.php3?id_article=29117
>
> Meryem Marzouki
>
> --
> Meryem Marzouki - http://www.iris.sgdg.org
> IRIS - Imaginons un réseau Internet solidaire
> 40 rue de la Justice - 75020 Paris
> Tel. +33(0)144749239
>
>
> Le 29 oct. 08 à 05:35, kwasi boakye-akyeampong a écrit :
>
>  My apologies for cross posting.
>>
>> Kwasi
>>
>> Tech giants in human rights deal
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7696356.stm
>>
>> By Maggie Shiels
>> Technology reporter, BBC News, Silicon Valley
>>
>>
>> Google was accused of censoring 2% of search results in China
>> Microsoft, Google and Yahoo have signed a global code of conduct promising
>> to offer better protection for online free speech and against official
>> intrusion.
>>
>> The Global Network Initiative follows criticism that companies were
>> assisting governments in countries like China to censor the Internet.
>> The guidelines seek to limit what data should be shared with authorities,
>> in cases where free speech is an issue.
>> "This is an important first step," said Mike Posner of Human Rights First.
>> He told the BBC "What this is is a recognition by all these tech
>> companies, the human rights groups and social investors that there has to be
>> a collective response to this growing problem.
>> "Companies need to step up to the plate and be more aggressive in
>> challenging unwarranted government interference," he said.
>> The initiative states that privacy is "a human right and guarantor of
>> human dignity," and the agreement commits the companies to try to resist
>> overly broad demands for restrictions on freedom of speech and the privacy
>> of users.
>> They will also assess the human rights climate in a country before
>> concluding business deals and make sure their employees and partners follow
>> suit.
>> "These principles are not going to be a silver bullet, but the most
>> important point for me is to provide transparency," said Danny O'Brien of
>> the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
>> "We have joined this initiative because we know that a wide range of
>> groups working together can achieve much more than the company acting
>> alone," said Andrew McLaughlin, Google's director of global public policy.
>> 'Valuable roadmap'
>> The impetus for such an agreement follows years of criticism that a number
>> of businesses, including Google, Yahoo and Microsoft have complicity built
>> what has been dubbed the "Great Firewall of China".
>>
>> Skype say they are abiding by Chinese laws over internet use
>> Google has been accused of complying with Chinese government demands to
>> filter internet searches to eliminate query results regarding topics such as
>> democracy or Tiananmen Square.
>> Microsoft has come under attack for blocking the blog of a prominent
>> Chinese Media researcher who posted articles critical of a management purge
>> at the Beijing News Daily.
>> Canadian researchers uncovered that a Skype joint venture in China
>> monitored users' communications.
>> And a Chinese reporter Shi Tao was jailed for 10 years after Yahoo China
>> provided his personal information to the Chinese government.
>> Today Yahoo co-founder and CEO Jerry Yang welcomed the new code of
>> conduct.
>> "These principles provide a valuable roadmap for companies like Yahoo
>> operating in markets where freedom of expression and privacy are unfairly
>> restricted.
>>
>> Shi Tao's jailing sparked a controversy of Yahoo business practices in
>> China
>> "Yahoo was founded on the belief that promoting access to information can
>> enrich people's lives and the principles we unveiled today reflect our
>> determination that our actions match our values around the world," said Mr
>> Yang.
>> While China has been painted as the worst abuser, Colin Maclay of the
>> Berkman Centre for Internet and Society at Harvard University said there are
>> other countries and governments all over the world at fault.
>> "The number of states actively seeking to censor online content and access
>> personal information is growing.
>> "And the means employed - technical, social, legal, political - are
>> increasingly sophisticated, often placing internet and telecommunications
>> companies in difficult positions."
>> 'Business case'
>> The Global Network Initiative was drawn up by the internet companies along
>> with human rights groups, academics and investors.
>> Adam Kanzer who is the managing director and general counsel at Domini
>> Social Investments said as well as being the right thing to do, it also
>> makes good business sense.
>> He told BBC News "When you see the industry being caught up in the tactics
>> of various regimes around the world, the business case is very clear.
>> Freedom of expression and privacy is core to their business.
>> "They depend on a wide open, freely accessible and secure internet. That's
>> what they are about. If people don't trust the internet and believe they are
>> secure, then that is counterproductive to their business."
>>
>> The plan has yet to receive the support of internet companies in China
>> The effort is already being seen by some as not going far enough.
>> "After two years of effort, they have ended up with so little," said
>> Morton Sklar executive director for the World Organisation for Human Rights
>> USA.
>> "It is very little more than a broad statement of support for a general
>> principle without any concrete backup mechanism to ensure that the
>> guidelines will be followed."
>> Mr Posner of Human Rights First disputes that and said this agreement has
>> not been set up as a "gotcha system" but as a way "to work with companies to
>> get them to improve what they are doing, credit them when they do it and
>> call them out if they fail."
>> While it is hoped many more companies will sign up, two European
>> telecommunications firms, France Telecom and Vodafone, are already said to
>> be considering adding their names.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ..............................................................................................................................
>> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what
>> am I?    And if not now, when?" - Rabbi Hillel
>>
>> ..............................................................................................................................
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
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>



-- 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Tue Oct 28 10:32:31 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 07:32:31 -0700
Subject: [governance] Tech giants in human rights deal
References: <877975.87579.qm@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
		<8001BBA4-C322-49F2-BCEC-B01D0F5E44DF@ras.eu.org> <fecfce260810290504o291070aav6b27549bab3b7cf3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4907227E.DA57841C@ix.netcom.com>

Sivasubramanian and all,

  Personally, I agree with RFS'es point of view and thier rightful
position as so stated accordingly.  Further as I also pointed out
globalnetworkinitiative.org web site and seeming operational
practice is inhearantly unsafe, promotes spam, and not secure.  As
such, without safty and security, the principals
globalnetworkinitiative.org
rightly in my view, espouse, pale by comparison.

See again:

http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=globalnetworkinitiative.org&token=1420229d463bb2ee1d1428801f109019

and
http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/ip4r.ch?ip=globalnetworkinitiative.org&token=140049a94f67babf10e43b8920ce9019

Ergo, RSF made a very wise considered decision for most of the right
and porperly principaled reasons.  A hardy "Well Done" is in order,
IMHO.  They have wisely decided not to become another fly in the
spiders web, as it were...

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:

> Hello Meryem Marzouki,
>
> Global Network Initiative appears to be an interesting initiative from
> the Corporate Sector which is traditionally perceived not to be in
> tune with Civil Society's concerns.
>
> Reporters Sans Frontieres haven't become a part of this initiative due
> to these concerns as published in the page
> http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=29117
>
>   1 - Local law remains the reference even if it violates
> international human rights standards. Thus, participating companies
> will comply with repressive regimes who have at their disposal an
> arsenal of legal provisions aimed at silencing dissidents.
>
> [-]  2 - The extent to which companies are expected to challenge
> governments' requests remains unclear. Requests in writing are sought
> but not mandatory.
>
> [-]  3 - Companies could still enter into business relationships
> (joint ventures, mergers) with local partners that do not follow the
> principles, then bypass the restrictions imposed by the principles and
> blame the local entity (such as Alibaba for Yahoo!) in case of
> violations of freedom of expression or collaboration for the arrest of
> dissidents.
>
> [-]  4 - Disclosure to users and transparency regarding the type of
> personal information retained by ITC companies' remains
> unsatisfactory.. Users have no assurances that companies will try to
> minimize data collection, nor do they know how long this data will be
> saved.
>
> [-]  5 - The assessors' independence and impartiality as well as the
> extent to which companies' will provide them with the necessary
> information to monitor developments remains uncertain.
> These are valid points. But better raised as a participant of this
> initiative rather than as an outsider.  RSF could begin by
> appreciating this initiative from the unexpected quarters and then go
> on to further strengthen the initiative by drawing attention to the
> concerns as listed above.
>
> I feel that RSF's concerns would be better addressed if it
> participates.
>
> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
> ISOC India Chennai.
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Meryem
> Marzouki <marzouki at ras.eu..org> wrote:
>
>      See also more information on Global Network initiative at:
>      http://www.globalnetworkinitiative.org, and dissenting voice
>      from RSF (explaining why they haven't signed the deal) at:
>      http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=29117
>
>      Meryem Marzouki
>
>      --
>      Meryem Marzouki - http://www.iris.sgdg.org
>      IRIS - Imaginons un réseau Internet solidaire
>      40 rue de la Justice - 75020 Paris
>      Tel. +33(0)144749239
>
>
>      Le 29 oct. 08 à 05:35, kwasi boakye-akyeampong a écrit :
>
>
>           My apologies for cross posting.
>
>           Kwasi
>
>           Tech giants in human rights deal
>
>           http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7696356.stm
>
>           By Maggie Shiels
>           Technology reporter, BBC News, Silicon Valley
>
>
>           Google was accused of censoring 2% of search
>           results in China
>           Microsoft, Google and Yahoo have signed a global
>           code of conduct promising to offer better
>           protection for online free speech and against
>           official intrusion.
>
>           The Global Network Initiative follows criticism
>           that companies were assisting governments in
>           countries like China to censor the Internet.
>           The guidelines seek to limit what data should be
>           shared with authorities, in cases where free
>           speech is an issue.
>           "This is an important first step," said Mike
>           Posner of Human Rights First.
>           He told the BBC "What this is is a recognition by
>           all these tech companies, the human rights groups
>           and social investors that there has to be a
>           collective response to this growing problem.
>           "Companies need to step up to the plate and be
>           more aggressive in challenging unwarranted
>           government interference," he said.
>           The initiative states that privacy is "a human
>           right and guarantor of human dignity," and the
>           agreement commits the companies to try to resist
>           overly broad demands for restrictions on freedom
>           of speech and the privacy of users.
>           They will also assess the human rights climate in
>           a country before concluding business deals and
>           make sure their employees and partners follow
>           suit.
>           "These principles are not going to be a silver
>           bullet, but the most important point for me is to
>           provide transparency," said Danny O'Brien of the
>           Electronic Frontier Foundation.
>           "We have joined this initiative because we know
>           that a wide range of groups working together can
>           achieve much more than the company acting alone,"
>           said Andrew McLaughlin, Google's director of
>           global public policy.
>           'Valuable roadmap'
>           The impetus for such an agreement follows years of
>           criticism that a number of businesses, including
>           Google, Yahoo and Microsoft have complicity built
>           what has been dubbed the "Great Firewall of
>           China".
>
>           Skype say they are abiding by Chinese laws over
>           internet use
>           Google has been accused of complying with Chinese
>           government demands to filter internet searches to
>           eliminate query results regarding topics such as
>           democracy or Tiananmen Square.
>           Microsoft has come under attack for blocking the
>           blog of a prominent Chinese Media researcher who
>           posted articles critical of a management purge at
>           the Beijing News Daily.
>           Canadian researchers uncovered that a Skype joint
>           venture in China monitored users' communications.
>           And a Chinese reporter Shi Tao was jailed for 10
>           years after Yahoo China provided his personal
>           information to the Chinese government.
>           Today Yahoo co-founder and CEO Jerry Yang welcomed
>           the new code of conduct.
>           "These principles provide a valuable roadmap for
>           companies like Yahoo operating in markets where
>           freedom of expression and privacy are unfairly
>           restricted.
>
>           Shi Tao's jailing sparked a controversy of Yahoo
>           business practices in China
>           "Yahoo was founded on the belief that promoting
>           access to information can enrich people's lives
>           and the principles we unveiled today reflect our
>           determination that our actions match our values
>           around the world," said Mr Yang.
>           While China has been painted as the worst abuser,
>           Colin Maclay of the Berkman Centre for Internet
>           and Society at Harvard University said there are
>           other countries and governments all over the world
>           at fault.
>           "The number of states actively seeking to censor
>           online content and access personal information is
>           growing.
>           "And the means employed - technical, social,
>           legal, political - are increasingly sophisticated,
>           often placing internet and telecommunications
>           companies in difficult positions."
>           'Business case'
>           The Global Network Initiative was drawn up by the
>           internet companies along with human rights groups,
>           academics and investors.
>           Adam Kanzer who is the managing director and
>           general counsel at Domini Social Investments said
>           as well as being the right thing to do, it also
>           makes good business sense.
>           He told BBC News "When you see the industry being
>           caught up in the tactics of various regimes around
>           the world, the business case is very clear.
>           Freedom of expression and privacy is core to their
>           business.
>           "They depend on a wide open, freely accessible and
>           secure internet. That's what they are about. If
>           people don't trust the internet and believe they
>           are secure, then that is counterproductive to
>           their business."
>
>           The plan has yet to receive the support of
>           internet companies in China
>           The effort is already being seen by some as not
>           going far enough.
>           "After two years of effort, they have ended up
>           with so little," said Morton Sklar executive
>           director for the World Organisation for Human
>           Rights USA.
>           "It is very little more than a broad statement of
>           support for a general principle without any
>           concrete backup mechanism to ensure that the
>           guidelines will be followed."
>           Mr Posner of Human Rights First disputes that and
>           said this agreement has not been set up as a
>           "gotcha system" but as a way "to work with
>           companies to get them to improve what they are
>           doing, credit them when they do it and call them
>           out if they fail."
>           While it is hoped many more companies will sign
>           up, two European telecommunications firms, France
>           Telecom and Vodafone, are already said to be
>           considering adding their names.
>
>
>
>           .
>           ..............................................................................................................................
>
>           "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I
>           am not for others, what am I?    And if not now,
>           when?" - Rabbi Hillel
>           .....................
>           ..........................................................................................................
>
>
>
>           _
>           __________________________________________________________
>
>           You received this message as a subscriber on the
>           list:
>               governance at lists.cpsr.org
>           To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>               governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
>           For all list information and functions, see:
>               http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>
>      ____________________________________________________________
>
>      You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>         governance at lists.cpsr.org
>      To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>         governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
>      For all list information and functions, see:
>         http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



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From skorpio at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 12:41:21 2008
From: skorpio at gmail.com (Jaco Aizenman)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:41:21 -0600
Subject: Why I DO read JeffreyWilliams sometimes? Re: AW: [governance] no
 need to feed the trolls
Message-ID: <d8bd2dac0810290941m266e72daw4227206334d4cedb@mail.gmail.com>

I do read Jeffrey sometimes because:

0. Sometimes post relevant information.

1. If the claims against him are real, his(*) case is so impressive!, that
he deserves at least an entry in Wikipedia!.     ;-)

2. If the claims are not real, he still deserves a Wikipedia entry for being
harassed so much, for so long by educated people..., don´t you think
so...?      :-D

(*) The group of people using the name Jeffrey Williams...?.



On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 8:10 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> wrote:

> Lleinwachter and all,
>
>  Whom is this person?  This is the first I ever heard of such a
> fantastically silly thing.  I am only the Spokesman for INEGroup.
>
>  Me thinks that this person if he/she actually is earnest, is making such
> announcements in jest.  I wouldn't pay it much mind.
>
>  Further, INEGroup doesn't have anywhere near the 50 ministers
> in any EU governments as members or past members that I am
> aware of.  We do have some few that were INEGroup members,
> but sense they have taken office in order to avoid COI, they have
> resigned as members.  We also do have members in more than
> 100 countries, most of which have their own chapters accordingly
> and some of them have advisory positions with various governments.
>
>  I hope this clarifies...???
>
> Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote:
>
> > Dear Jeff
> >
> > I met last week a guy from Germany who wants to become a member of the
> German Bundestag after next years elections. He outet himself as member of
> the INEGroup. He told me that they have ministers in more than 50
> governments around the globe and are very active in more than 2000
> online-lists everywhere. And he admires you as the most respected leader and
> godfather of the whole movement. He will organize a "Jeff Williams
> Celebration Day" in 2009 at May, 17, which is also the "World Internet Day".
> One of the purpose of the Day - he expects hundreds of speakers from all
> over the world - is to create a "Jeff Williams Fan Club" (JEWIFAC). The
> JEWIFAC Preparatory Group (PrepGrou) as already asked a world wide known
> composer to write a "Jeff Williams Anthem" in D-Dur. Are you aware of his
> activities and what is your recommendation?  How we can help?
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Wolfgang
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > Von: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com]
> > Gesendet: Mo 27.10.2008 03:04
> > An: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > Betreff: Re: [governance] no need to feed the trolls
> >
> > Jeanette and all,
> >
> >   Certainly selective sensorship works.  I employ it when and where
> > necessary and justified ethically speaking.  I cannot of course say
> > for myself that such applies to myself or any of our INEGroup members.
> > Thankfully Jeanette is one of a tiny few that does.  But idologically
> > extream often take such a position...
> >
> > Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > the best thing is to filter emails from Jeffrey and ignore him. This
> > > reduces the noise to those who keep replying to Jeffrey's emails. I
> have
> > > been doing this for years and it works well.
> > > jeanette
> > >
> > > Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> > > > Adam and all,
> > > >
> > > >   Sorry Adam, your incorrect.  INEGroup is registered and is
> > > > filed with the US FEC.  Submitting a FOIA request, which has been
> > > > done on several occasions, will give you the factual information
> > > > via an independant source that you need or desire.  Further
> > > > we are registered with Edgar and DOC/NTIA as of 1998 which
> > > > you can check out for yourself if you so choose, also via a
> > > > FOIA request as well.  So as always, do your due diligance
> > > > if you desire accordingly.
> > > >
> > > >   Sorry everyone else, but Adam is publically here challanging
> > > > me and INEGroup, yet he has never submitted the legally proper
> > > > FOIA request to be making the FALSE statement he is making
> > > > below.  However Adam has had from time to time disagreements
> > > > with our members positions and has demonstrated privately
> > > > via Email that he has a personal vendetta, as I would and others
> > > > whom have reviewed independantly those Email at my request,
> > > > discribed such.  This is unfortunate and certainly not any of
> > > > my doing.  But if you wish, I can forward those Email to any
> > > > of you for your review upon request and a signed non disclosure
> > > > agreement if you provide a mailing address or via forward by
> > > > Email if you have a valid and up to date, Class 2 cert.
> > > >
> > > >   But Adam is correct about one thing, that member count in
> > > > my sig file below, is not fully up to date.  That is simply because
> > > > I don't yet have an accurate count, but our membership is now
> > > > estimated to be closer to 284,000 members presently.  However
> > > > until I recieve an accurate count, I will not be updating my Sig file
> > > > to reflect the correct figure accordingly so as not to be misleading.
> > > >
> > > > Adam Peake wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>> Hi Ian and Parminder,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Would you both like to intervene on these issues of identity crisis
> please?
> > > >> Why?
> > > >>
> > > >> Jeff Williams has been posting to ICANN and general Internet lists
> > > >> for years. You will find plenty of notes about who he is (or is not)
> > > >> and about the claims he makes.
> > > >>
> > > >> He closes every email with a .sig that's patently untrue.  There is
> > > >> no INEGroup LLA, no 281k members/stakeholders.
> > > >>
> > > >> You judge if you want to bother replying. I'd suggest best just to
> > > >> ignore him.  It's not about substance, some of his emails are as
> sane
> > > >> as anyone else's, some are inflammatory, some are just silly. As the
> > > >> subject lines suggests it's best not to feed the troll. And to use
> > > >> another online cliche... your mileage may vary.
> > > >>
> > > >> I am not Paddy bateman,, but I agree with his/her comment.
> > > >>
> > > >> It would also be best not to continue this thread!
> > > >>
> > > >> Adam
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Paddy bateman
> > > >>> <pbateman.igov at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>  > For those who may be tempted to take seriously the posts by Jeff
> Williams,
> > > >>>>  please consider that his only role in the Internet community is
> as a
> > > >>>>  longstanding troll who has delighted in clogging up multiple
> > > >>>>  Internet-related mailing lists with gibberish and lies over the
> past decade.
> > > >>>>  It's nothing more than a game for him. The best way of keeping
> this list
> > > >>>>  useful is to completely ignore his posts.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>  For more background information, see here:
> > > >>>  > http://www.gtld-mou.org/gtld-discuss/mail-archive/08030.html
> > > >>>>  And if he complains that he he is being defamed by this mail,
> which he
> > > >>>>  probably will, and you are tempted to take him seriously, first
> ask him
> > > >>>>  where you may be able to find some information about "INEGroup
> LLA", the
> > > >>>>  imaginary organization he claims to be spokesperson for. If
> INEGroup LLA
> > > >>>>  actually existed, and if it had more than 281,000
> > > >>>>  members as he falsely claims in each of his mails, then you would
> think
> > > >>>>  there might be some public information available. You'd also
> think that one
> > > >>>>  or two of those members might be willing to identify themselves.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>  He is playing a game. We are trying to tackle serious issues. We
> do not need
> > > >>>>  his distractions.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>  -pb
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>  ____________________________________________________________
> > > >>>>  You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > > >>>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >>>>  To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > > >>>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>  For all list information and functions, see:
> > > >>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Regards.
> > > >>> --------------------------
> > > >>> Fouad Bajwa
> > > >>> ____________________________________________________________
> > > >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > > >>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > > >>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >>>
> > > >>> For all list information and functions, see:
> > > >>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > > >> ____________________________________________________________
> > > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > > >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > > >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >>
> > > >> For all list information and functions, see:
> > > >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders
> strong!)
> > > > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> > > >    Abraham Lincoln
> > > >
> > > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > > > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> > > >
> > > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > > > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > > > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > > > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > > > ===============================================================
> > > > Updated 1/26/04
> > > > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > > > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > > > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > > > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > > > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ____________________________________________________________
> > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> > > >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> > > >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> > > >
> > > > For all list information and functions, see:
> > > >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >    Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >
> > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > ===============================================================
> > Updated 1/26/04
> > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> > div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> > My Phone: 214-244-4827
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> Regards,
>
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>   Abraham Lincoln
>
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>



-- 
Jaco Aizenman L.
My iname is =jaco (http://xri.net/=jaco)
XDI Board member - www.xdi.org
Tel/Voicemail: 506-83461570
Costa Rica

What is an i-name?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-name
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From abi.jagun at gmail.com  Wed Oct 29 12:58:07 2008
From: abi.jagun at gmail.com (Abi)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:58:07 +0000
Subject: [governance] Scholarships for Communications Management Masters
 Course at the University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, UK
Message-ID: <c39099d40810290958va4c786etc7855d1a7ccb60c0@mail.gmail.com>

Apologies for cross-posting

====

Scholarships for Communications Management Masters Course at the
University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, UK

Eight scholarships are being made available to applicants from India,
Brazil, Egypt and China wishing to study on the University of
Strathclyde's one-year Masters degree in Communications Management
(MCM)

Two scholarships are available for each country covering fees and stipend.
Scholarships will be filled competitively. Applicants should possess a
good undergraduate degree (1st or 2/1) and at least four years of work
experience in the telecommunications industry.

Applications must have applied, received and accepted a formal offer
by 28 November 2008 to be considered.

Further details of these programmes can be found at:
http://www.commsmanagement.org/mcm/
____________________________________________________________
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Tue Oct 28 21:05:35 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:05:35 -0700
Subject: [governance] Scholarships for Communications Management 
References: <c39099d40810290958va4c786etc7855d1a7ccb60c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4907B6DF.7F54BB90@ix.netcom.com>

Abi and all,

  I don't mind the posting.  In fact I am greatful for this one
in particular.  I shall pass it along to our members for their
interest.  Many thanks!

Abi wrote:

> Apologies for cross-posting
>
> ====
>
> Scholarships for Communications Management Masters Course at the
> University of Strathclyde, Glasgow, UK
>
> Eight scholarships are being made available to applicants from India,
> Brazil, Egypt and China wishing to study on the University of
> Strathclyde's one-year Masters degree in Communications Management
> (MCM)
>
> Two scholarships are available for each country covering fees and stipend.
> Scholarships will be filled competitively. Applicants should possess a
> good undergraduate degree (1st or 2/1) and at least four years of work
> experience in the telecommunications industry.
>
> Applications must have applied, received and accepted a formal offer
> by 28 November 2008 to be considered.
>
> Further details of these programmes can be found at:
> http://www.commsmanagement.org/mcm/
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Tue Oct 28 23:31:28 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:31:28 -0700
Subject: [governance] Tech giants in human rights deal
References: <877975.87579.qm@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <49083CA7.8050308@peter-dambier.de>
Message-ID: <4907D90F.2ED4EB97@ix.netcom.com>

Peter and all,

  Always good to hear from you Peter.  I believe the search
engine you might have been looking for or thinking of is
ASK  www.ask.com.  I certainly prefer it to Google any day,
simply because it provides far better for users security and
privacy.  Maybe someday, Google will get it, but seems that
day is not today.

  Certainly you are correct in my opinion and the opinion of
the vast majority of our members that MS, Yahoo and Google
are the "Big 3" that thwart online free speech, despite their
own marketing jargon and civil society affiliations to the contrary
for the sake of appearances.  Look at what they do, not what they
say.  Sen. Obama is quite right on that score.  If it looks like a duck,
walks like a duck, paddles in the water like a duck, but doesn't
quack like a duck, it 75% likely it's a duck.  However some might
say/think its a hybrid!  >:)  Maybe their right, but if so its a lousy
one.

Peter Dambier wrote:

> Sorry,
>
> accidently been reading
>
> Microsoft, Google and Yahoo to offer better protection from online free speech.
>
> Whenever you have time or get unexpected results try to compare
>
> google.de - keep the interface in german
> google.fr - french interface
> google.sp - keep the interface in spanish
> google.it - keep the interface in italian
> google.nl - keep the interface in dutch
>
> Even "harmless" queries for a bank or a cult might give you the pros in
> one language and the cons in the other e.g. the company in german the
> trade union in french, querying for a german company.
>
> As long as you dont look for Berlusconi, italian might be the
> best joice. If you want to find the lies only, try english.
>
> Well, we dont depend on google. There are other search engines - I only
> cannot remember which ones.
>
> Kind regards
> Peter
>
> kwasi boakye-akyeampong wrote:
> > My apologies for cross posting.
> >
> > Kwasi
> > *__*
> > *_Tech giants in human rights deal_*
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7696356.stm
> >
> > By Maggie Shiels
> > Technology reporter, BBC News, Silicon Valley
> >
> >
> > People using the internet in Beijing
> > Google was accused of censoring 2% of search results in China
> >
> > *Microsoft, Google and Yahoo have signed a global code of conduct
> > promising to offer better protection for online free speech and against
> > official intrusion.*
> >
> > The Global Network Initiative follows criticism that companies were
> > assisting governments in countries like China to censor the Internet.
> > The guidelines seek to limit what data should be shared with
> > authorities, in cases where free speech is an issue.
> > "This is an important first step," said Mike Posner of Human Rights First.
> > He told the BBC "What this is is a recognition by all these tech
> > companies, the human rights groups and social investors that there has
> > to be a collective response to this growing problem.
> > "Companies need to step up to the plate and be more aggressive in
> > challenging unwarranted government interference," he said.
> > The initiative states that privacy is "a human right and guarantor of
> > human dignity," and the agreement commits the companies to try to resist
> > overly broad demands for restrictions on freedom of speech and the
> > privacy of users.
> > They will also assess the human rights climate in a country before
> > concluding business deals and make sure their employees and partners
> > follow suit.
> > "These principles are not going to be a silver bullet, but the most
> > important point for me is to provide transparency," said Danny O'Brien
> > of the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
> > "We have joined this initiative because we know that a wide range of
> > groups working together can achieve much more than the company acting
> > alone," said Andrew McLaughlin, Google's director of global public policy.
> > *'Valuable roadmap'*
> > The impetus for such an agreement follows years of criticism that a
> > number of businesses, including Google, Yahoo and Microsoft have
> > complicity built what has been dubbed the "Great Firewall of China".
> > Screen grab of Skype website
> > Skype say they are abiding by Chinese laws over internet use
> >
> > Google has been accused of complying with Chinese government demands to
> > filter internet searches to eliminate query results regarding topics
> > such as democracy or Tiananmen Square.
> > Microsoft has come under attack for blocking the blog of a prominent
> > Chinese Media researcher who posted articles critical of a management
> > purge at the Beijing News Daily.
> > Canadian researchers uncovered that a Skype joint venture in China
> > monitored users' communications.
> > And a Chinese reporter Shi Tao was jailed for 10 years after Yahoo China
> > provided his personal information to the Chinese government.
> > Today Yahoo co-founder and CEO Jerry Yang welcomed the new code of conduct.
> > "These principles provide a valuable roadmap for companies like Yahoo
> > operating in markets where freedom of expression and privacy are
> > unfairly restricted.
> > Shi Tao, file picture
> > Shi Tao's jailing sparked a controversy of Yahoo business practices in China
> >
> > "Yahoo was founded on the belief that promoting access to information
> > can enrich people's lives and the principles we unveiled today reflect
> > our determination that our actions match our values around the world,"
> > said Mr Yang.
> > While China has been painted as the worst abuser, Colin Maclay of the
> > Berkman Centre for Internet and Society at Harvard University said there
> > are other countries and governments all over the world at fault.
> > "The number of states actively seeking to censor online content and
> > access personal information is growing.
> > "And the means employed - technical, social, legal, political - are
> > increasingly sophisticated, often placing internet and
> > telecommunications companies in difficult positions."
> > *'Business case'*
> > The Global Network Initiative was drawn up by the internet companies
> > along with human rights groups, academics and investors.
> > Adam Kanzer who is the managing director and general counsel at Domini
> > Social Investments said as well as being the right thing to do, it also
> > makes good business sense.
> > He told BBC News "When you see the industry being caught up in the
> > tactics of various regimes around the world, the business case is very
> > clear. Freedom of expression and privacy is core to their business.
> > "They depend on a wide open, freely accessible and secure internet.
> > That's what they are about. If people don't trust the internet and
> > believe they are secure, then that is counterproductive to their business."
> > Computer keyboard, Eyewire
> > The plan has yet to receive the support of internet companies in China
> >
> > The effort is already being seen by some as not going far enough.
> > "After two years of effort, they have ended up with so little," said
> > Morton Sklar executive director for the World Organisation for Human
> > Rights USA.
> > "It is very little more than a broad statement of support for a general
> > principle without any concrete backup mechanism to ensure that the
> > guidelines will be followed."
> > Mr Posner of Human Rights First disputes that and said this agreement
> > has not been set up as a "gotcha system" but as a way "to work with
> > companies to get them to improve what they are doing, credit them when
> > they do it and call them out if they fail."
> > While it is hoped many more companies will sign up, two European
> > telecommunications firms, France Telecom and Vodafone, are already said
> > to be considering adding their names.
> >
> >
> >
> > *..............................................................................................................................*
> > *“If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others,
> > what am I?    And if not now, when?”* - Rabbi Hillel
> > *..............................................................................................................................
> > <http://agyakwasi.blogspot.com/>
> > *
> >
> >
>
> --
> Peter and Karin Dambier
> Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
> Rimbacher Strasse 16
> D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
> +49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
> +49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
> mail: peter at peter-dambier.de
> http://www.peter-dambier.de/
> http://iason.site.voila.fr/
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
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From gurstein at gmail.com  Thu Oct 30 00:59:34 2008
From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:59:34 +0100
Subject: [governance] RE: [Coalition] Draft Proposal 
In-Reply-To: <b4a061400810291441r70a09f69r10663969d3652785@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E8203145D24E4D5BA1C2FF82B5504A15@userPC>

I haven't participated in this recent discussion due to other distractions
and responsibilities.
 
But I've now read the draft proposal that Mark Costa circulated which I
believe, except in some details, is the broad consensus position being
promoted.
 
I'd like to start my remarks by saying that my read of the Seoul conference
was rather different from what seems to be reflected in the proposal.  My
overall impression was not that the OECD endorsed the participation of Civil
Society "organizations" as advisors to the OECD but rather that they
endorsed the participation of Civil Society in that role.  
 
And even further my reading was that the OECD Ministers with a few and
predictable exceptions (the US being the most notable) were much less
concerned with how "civil society" reacted to their initiatives and the
emergence of the Information Society/Economy than they were with how
citizens and particularly those most at risk and disadvantaged in the
overall Information Society/Economy development) were responding and being
impacted.
 
What I see in this proposal is a, dare I say, impertinent and even arrogant
conflation/confusion of (the usual suspect) Civil Society organizations as
listed in the proposal, with "Civil Society" as a whole, and further with
"civil society" understood as not simply those with the means and skills to
organize themselves for participation in august chambers such as those of
the OECD but civil society as understood as being those at the grassroots
impacted by Information Society developments.
 
Looking through the list of usual suspect organizations and through the
forwarded proposal I neither see organizations with any significant links
into those at the grassroots who have the most to lose (and to gain) from
ICTs nor do I see any interest or attention in linking the activities of the
CSISAC into any of those self same folks or their concerns and initiatives.
 
Where in this proposal are the voices of disadvantaged and marginalized
communities, the disabled, the unemployed and homeless, indigenous peoples
and how will their concerns be introduced as "advice" to the OECD?   
 
Michael Gurstein
 

-----Original Message-----
From: coalition-bounces at mailman.thepublicvoice.org
[mailto:coalition-bounces at mailman.thepublicvoice.org] On Behalf Of Mark
Costa
Sent: October-29-08 10:42 PM
To: Public Voice
Subject: [Coalition] Draft Proposal


All,

Attached is a draft proposal for the CSISAC charter that builds upon the
proposal submitted by EPIC, while simultaneously addressing the main
concerns expressed by Karen and others in the Geneva group. All of the
changes are located in sections 3 & 4. I apologize for adding to the
confusion, but work started on this document before the recent flurry of
activity on the wiki.

-- 
Mark R. Costa
Internet Governance Project


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From isolatedn at gmail.com  Thu Oct 30 02:19:52 2008
From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 11:49:52 +0530
Subject: [governance] RE: [Coalition] Draft Proposal
In-Reply-To: <E8203145D24E4D5BA1C2FF82B5504A15@userPC>
References: <b4a061400810291441r70a09f69r10663969d3652785@mail.gmail.com>
	 <E8203145D24E4D5BA1C2FF82B5504A15@userPC>
Message-ID: <fecfce260810292319m3dc96ebahc2a6229252297edc@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Michael Gurstein,

I happen to be one of those who participated at the OECD Ministerial
meeting.

I do not find much of information about the so called CSISAC to be known as
CSAC, except this at
http://icommons.org/blogs/the-public-voice-coalition-conference-call and it
would help if you or any one could post more information about what is
happening.

Though OECD is a regional organization, its initiatives and programs related
to the "Future of Internet" is bound to have an influence on how Internet
Governance takes shape due to its visibility and its position as body formed
by a coalition of the economically most powerful nations. So it becomes
important for the Civil Society to observe and react to the OECD initiatives
related to Internet Governance.

The issues you have raised related to representation by the disadvantaged
and marginalized communities. Actually the concerns are much broader. On
Internet Governance debates it is indicated that a multi-stakeholder
approach would prevail, but to implement this approach some thing very basic
needs to be done: Those present representing a certain stakeholder group
needs to a) truly belong to that stakeholder group b) truly represent the
interests of that stakeholder group and c) be present and participate in a
strength sufficient enough to represent the various interests within that
stakeholder group, sufficient enough to be an equal to the other stakeholder
groups.

CSISAC to be known as CSAC is intended to be an "Advisory Group" that is
bound to have a role in ensuring what organizations get acknowledged as
Civil Society and in determining the 'quality' or Civil Society
participation at the OECD deliberations and possibly in related forums.

It is necessary that responsible Civil Society bodies including the IGC
takes note of this OECD initiative and ensure fair and equitable
representation of the Civil Society for a participatory role.

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
ISOC India Chennai.



On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:29 AM, Michael Gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>wrote:

> What I see in this proposal is a, dare I say, impertinent and even arrogant
> conflation/confusion of (the usual suspect) Civil Society organizations as
> listed in the proposal, with "Civil Society" as a whole, and further with
> "civil society" understood as not simply those with the means and skills to
> organize themselves for participation in august chambers such as those of
> the OECD but civil society as understood as being those at the grassroots
> impacted by Information Society developments.
>
> Looking through the list of usual suspect organizations and through the
> forwarded proposal I neither see organizations with any significant links
> into those at the grassroots who have the most to lose (and to gain) from
> ICTs nor do I see any interest or attention in linking the activities of the
> CSISAC into any of those self same folks or their concerns and initiatives.
>
> Where in this proposal are the voices of disadvantaged and marginalized
> communities, the disabled, the unemployed and homeless, indigenous peoples
> and how will their concerns be introduced as "advice" to the OECD?
>
> Michael Gurstein
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> *From:* coalition-bounces at mailman.thepublicvoice.org [mailto:
> coalition-bounces at mailman.thepublicvoice.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Costa
> *Sent:* October-29-08 10:42 PM
> *To:* Public Voice
> *Subject:* [Coalition] Draft Proposal
>
> All,
>
> Attached is a draft proposal for the CSISAC charter that builds upon the
> proposal submitted by EPIC, while simultaneously addressing the main
> concerns expressed by Karen and others in the Geneva group. All of the
> changes are located in sections 3 & 4. I apologize for adding to the
> confusion, but work started on this document before the recent flurry of
> activity on the wiki.
>
> --
> Mark R. Costa
> Internet Governance Project
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>     governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>


-- 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Wed Oct 29 05:34:39 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:34:39 -0700
Subject: [governance] RE: [Coalition] Draft Proposal
References: <b4a061400810291441r70a09f69r10663969d3652785@mail.gmail.com>
		<E8203145D24E4D5BA1C2FF82B5504A15@userPC> <fecfce260810292319m3dc96ebahc2a6229252297edc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49082E2F.1D08353A@ix.netcom.com>

Siva and all,

  Thank you for your excellent response.  We agree with the
notion of multi-stakeholder approach will if not already is
prevail and/or prevailing.  I know that our organization more
than meets the criterion which you briefly outlined.

  Most stakeholders are not only interested and involved to some
degree at multi levels.  Such however does not detract and in fact
enhances the need for a safe and open Internet, which even objectively
we do not have now, and is across stakeholder boundaries, however
defined, is recognized and likely getting worse not better.  What
we the OECD doesn't seem to grasp and/or recognize in terms
of priority is that without fully recognizing civil liberties entirely
without reservation of obviscation, all stakeholders will suffer
with increasing severity and regularity.

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:

> Hello Michael Gurstein,
>
> I happen to be one of those who participated at the OECD Ministerial
> meeting.
>
> I do not find much of information about the so called CSISAC to be
> known as CSAC, except this at
> http://icommons.org/blogs/the-public-voice-coalition-conference-call
> and it would help if you or any one could post more information about
> what is happening.
>
> Though OECD is a regional organization, its initiatives and programs
> related to the "Future of Internet" is bound to have an influence on
> how Internet Governance takes shape due to its visibility and its
> position as body formed by a coalition of the economically most
> powerful nations. So it becomes important for the Civil Society to
> observe and react to the OECD initiatives related to Internet
> Governance.
>
> The issues you have raised related to representation by the
> disadvantaged and marginalized communities. Actually the concerns are
> much broader. On Internet Governance debates it is indicated that a
> multi-stakeholder approach would prevail, but to implement this
> approach some thing very basic needs to be done: Those present
> representing a certain stakeholder group needs to a) truly belong to
> that stakeholder group b) truly represent the interests of that
> stakeholder group and c) be present and participate in a strength
> sufficient enough to represent the various interests within that
> stakeholder group, sufficient enough to be an equal to the other
> stakeholder groups.
>
> CSISAC to be known as CSAC is intended to be an "Advisory Group" that
> is bound to have a role in ensuring what organizations get
> acknowledged as Civil Society and in determining the 'quality' or
> Civil Society participation at the OECD deliberations and possibly in
> related forums.
>
> It is necessary that responsible Civil Society bodies including the
> IGC takes note of this OECD initiative and ensure fair and equitable
> representation of the Civil Society for a participatory role.
>
> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
> ISOC India Chennai.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:29 AM, Michael
> Gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>      What I see in this proposal is a, dare I say, impertinent
>      and even arrogant conflation/confusion of (the usual
>      suspect) Civil Society organizations as listed in the
>      proposal, with "Civil Society" as a whole, and further with
>      "civil society" understood as not simply those with the
>      means and skills to organize themselves for participation in
>      august chambers such as those of the OECD but civil society
>      as understood as being those at the grassroots impacted by
>      Information Society developments.Looking through the list of
>      usual suspect organizations and through the forwarded
>      proposal I neither see organizations with any significant
>      links into those at the grassroots who have the most to lose
>      (and to gain) from ICTs nor do I see any interest or
>      attention in linking the activities of the CSISAC into any
>      of those self same folks or their concerns and
>      initiatives.Where in this proposal are the voices of
>      disadvantaged and marginalized communities, the disabled,
>      the unemployed and homeless, indigenous peoples and how will
>      their concerns be introduced as "advice" to the
>      OECD? Michael Gurstein
>
>           -----Original Message-----
>           From: coalition-bounces at mailman.thepublicvoice.org
>           [mailto:coalition-bounces at mailman.thepublicvoice.org]
>           On Behalf Of Mark Costa
>           Sent: October-29-08 10:42 PM
>           To: Public Voice
>           Subject: [Coalition] Draft Proposal
>
>           All,
>
>           Attached is a draft proposal for the CSISAC
>           charter that builds upon the proposal submitted by
>           EPIC, while simultaneously addressing the main
>           concerns expressed by Karen and others in the
>           Geneva group. All of the changes are located in
>           sections 3 & 4. I apologize for adding to the
>           confusion, but work started on this document
>           before the recent flurry of activity on the wiki.
>
>           --
>           Mark R. Costa
>           Internet Governance Project
>
>
>      ____________________________________________________________
>
>      You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>          governance at lists.cpsr.org
>      To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>          governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
>      For all list information and functions, see:
>          http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827



____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

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From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com  Wed Oct 29 05:50:43 2008
From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:50:43 -0700
Subject: [governance] Tech Giants In Human Rights Deal
Message-ID: <490831F3.75F55751@ix.netcom.com>

All,

  Where the rubber meets the road?  Sorry, but I had to laugh
when first reading this.  >:)  Codes of conduct by major
corporations are folly and always have been.  For Google,
Yahoo, and MS to expect me or any reasonable and/or
experienced person of the world to believe such from same
is to suggest to us that we are fools and/or deserve to be
fooled even if we are not.  My first question to the leaders
of these organizations would be and has been:  Whom is to
ensure that such codes of conduct are adhered to, and what
exactly are those codes of conduct?  My second question
would be would these "Tech Giants" adhere to a set of codes
of conduct that were set and policed by their customers and
consumers?

See:
"Microsoft, Google and Yahoo have signed a global a
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7696356.stm
code of conduct promising to offer better protection for online free
speech and against official intrusion." Anyone want to know what this
means for China & Australia? I bet it means even less to all of us in
America where every major data center has a secret room where the
government sniffs our packets.

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
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From maxsenges at gmail.com  Fri Oct 31 13:28:40 2008
From: maxsenges at gmail.com (Max Senges)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:28:40 -0700
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <49052C1F.716CC717@ix.netcom.com>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> <Tgp5a98t$hBJFAXW@perry.co.uk>
	 <49052C1F.716CC717@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <4d976d8e0810311028u58b445a6u45b45a1a2bbe4423@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everybody

so the americans have *of course* outsourced visa processing to a private
company. Their San Francisco office tells me that with the conference
registration confirmation i can get the visa (it works like a invitation
letter), but they have never heard of a free visa. I sent them the link to
the website where it states that it should be free.

Anybody else successful in San Francisco?

best
max

On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams <jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> wrote:

> Roland and all,
>
>  I am not sure why there is really such a problem in attaining a
> visa.  I got my diplomatic visa to India very easily recently.  Perhaps
> it is the difference in types of visas being sought and/or requested?
>
> Roland Perry wrote:
>
> > In message <4905D8AE.40007 at gmail.com>, at 16:05:18 on Mon, 27 Oct 2008,
> > Elena Pavan <pavan.elena at gmail.com> writes
> > >Indian government should release a *gratis visa to the participants* to
> > >the IGF in Hyderabad. i just called the agency the italian indian
> > >consulate indicated me in milan and, apparently, gratis visas will be
> > >released only for those who own a UN passport
> >
> > In the UK many Indian visa applications are handled through an agency
> > appointed by the consulate. They say they know nothing about this "free
> > Visa" arrangement, and looking at their online application process I
> > think it will fail if I don't include the standard "Conference visa"
> > fee. I live over two hours from London and was hoping not to have to
> > travel and queue all day (as is apparently required when applying in
> > person).
> >
> > The next obstacle is whether or not they will accept the email from the
> > secretariat as a "signed letter of invitation". And will they also
> > require a letter from my employer (in this case RIPE NCC in
> > Netherlands).
> > --
> > Roland Perry
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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> >
> > For all list information and functions, see:
> >      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
> Regards,
>
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>   Abraham Lincoln
>
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
> My Phone: 214-244-4827
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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-- 
-------------------------------------------------

"I am, You are, We are information"
                            Camille de Toledo - Coming of Age at the End of
History

-------------------------------------------------
Dr. Max Senges

US-Mobile: +1 650 714 9826
Spanish-Mobile: + 34 693343837

www.maxsenges.com
www.knowledgeentrepreneur.com
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From roland at internetpolicyagency.com  Fri Oct 31 13:59:03 2008
From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:59:03 +0000
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <4d976d8e0810311028u58b445a6u45b45a1a2bbe4423@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> <Tgp5a98t$hBJFAXW@perry.co.uk>
 <49052C1F.716CC717@ix.netcom.com>
 <4d976d8e0810311028u58b445a6u45b45a1a2bbe4423@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ofYHFZVnd0CJFAay@perry.co.uk>

In message 
<4d976d8e0810311028u58b445a6u45b45a1a2bbe4423 at mail.gmail.com>, at 
10:28:40 on Fri, 31 Oct 2008, Max Senges <maxsenges at gmail.com> writes
>so the americans have *of course* outsourced visa processing to a 
>private company.

Do you mean the Indian Consulates *in* America? If so, that's the same 
as the UK where they seem to have outsourced the 
except-in-person-in-London visas. And similarly haven't heard about the 
"free" ones.
-- 
Roland Perry
____________________________________________________________
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From maxsenges at gmail.com  Fri Oct 31 14:11:07 2008
From: maxsenges at gmail.com (Max Senges)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:11:07 -0700
Subject: [governance] visas for india?
In-Reply-To: <ofYHFZVnd0CJFAay@perry.co.uk>
References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> <Tgp5a98t$hBJFAXW@perry.co.uk>
	 <49052C1F.716CC717@ix.netcom.com>
	 <4d976d8e0810311028u58b445a6u45b45a1a2bbe4423@mail.gmail.com>
	 <ofYHFZVnd0CJFAay@perry.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4d976d8e0810311111j359ca593g6ab947800950ce9@mail.gmail.com>

sorry naturally i mean the Indian Gov *in* the US

best
max

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Roland Perry <
roland at internetpolicyagency.com> wrote:

> In message <4d976d8e0810311028u58b445a6u45b45a1a2bbe4423 at mail.gmail.com>,
> at 10:28:40 on Fri, 31 Oct 2008, Max Senges <maxsenges at gmail.com> writes
>
>> so the americans have *of course* outsourced visa processing to a private
>> company.
>>
>
> Do you mean the Indian Consulates *in* America? If so, that's the same as
> the UK where they seem to have outsourced the except-in-person-in-London
> visas. And similarly haven't heard about the "free" ones.
> --
> Roland Perry
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>    governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>



-- 
-------------------------------------------------

"I am, You are, We are information"
                            Camille de Toledo - Coming of Age at the End of
History

-------------------------------------------------
Dr. Max Senges

US-Mobile: +1 650 714 9826
Spanish-Mobile: + 34 693343837

www.maxsenges.com
www.knowledgeentrepreneur.com
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From kboakye1 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 29 00:35:25 2008
From: kboakye1 at yahoo.co.uk (kwasi boakye-akyeampong)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 04:35:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [governance] Tech giants in human rights deal 
Message-ID: <877975.87579.qm@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

My apologies for cross posting.
 
Kwasi
 
Tech giants in human rights deal 
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7696356.stm






By Maggie Shiels 
Technology reporter, BBC News, Silicon Valley 





 
Google was accused of censoring 2% of search results in China
Microsoft, Google and Yahoo have signed a global code of conduct promising to offer better protection for online free speech and against official intrusion. 
The Global Network Initiative follows criticism that companies were assisting governments in countries like China to censor the Internet. 
The guidelines seek to limit what data should be shared with authorities, in cases where free speech is an issue. 
"This is an important first step," said Mike Posner of Human Rights First. 
He told the BBC "What this is is a recognition by all these tech companies, the human rights groups and social investors that there has to be a collective response to this growing problem. 
"Companies need to step up to the plate and be more aggressive in challenging unwarranted government interference," he said. 
The initiative states that privacy is "a human right and guarantor of human dignity," and the agreement commits the companies to try to resist overly broad demands for restrictions on freedom of speech and the privacy of users. 
They will also assess the human rights climate in a country before concluding business deals and make sure their employees and partners follow suit. 
"These principles are not going to be a silver bullet, but the most important point for me is to provide transparency," said Danny O'Brien of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. 
"We have joined this initiative because we know that a wide range of groups working together can achieve much more than the company acting alone," said Andrew McLaughlin, Google's director of global public policy. 
'Valuable roadmap' 
The impetus for such an agreement follows years of criticism that a number of businesses, including Google, Yahoo and Microsoft have complicity built what has been dubbed the "Great Firewall of China". 





 
Skype say they are abiding by Chinese laws over internet use
Google has been accused of complying with Chinese government demands to filter internet searches to eliminate query results regarding topics such as democracy or Tiananmen Square. 
Microsoft has come under attack for blocking the blog of a prominent Chinese Media researcher who posted articles critical of a management purge at the Beijing News Daily. 
Canadian researchers uncovered that a Skype joint venture in China monitored users' communications. 
And a Chinese reporter Shi Tao was jailed for 10 years after Yahoo China provided his personal information to the Chinese government. 
Today Yahoo co-founder and CEO Jerry Yang welcomed the new code of conduct. 
"These principles provide a valuable roadmap for companies like Yahoo operating in markets where freedom of expression and privacy are unfairly restricted. 





 
Shi Tao's jailing sparked a controversy of Yahoo business practices in China
"Yahoo was founded on the belief that promoting access to information can enrich people's lives and the principles we unveiled today reflect our determination that our actions match our values around the world," said Mr Yang. 
While China has been painted as the worst abuser, Colin Maclay of the Berkman Centre for Internet and Society at Harvard University said there are other countries and governments all over the world at fault. 
"The number of states actively seeking to censor online content and access personal information is growing. 
"And the means employed - technical, social, legal, political - are increasingly sophisticated, often placing internet and telecommunications companies in difficult positions." 
'Business case' 
The Global Network Initiative was drawn up by the internet companies along with human rights groups, academics and investors. 
Adam Kanzer who is the managing director and general counsel at Domini Social Investments said as well as being the right thing to do, it also makes good business sense. 
He told BBC News "When you see the industry being caught up in the tactics of various regimes around the world, the business case is very clear. Freedom of expression and privacy is core to their business. 
"They depend on a wide open, freely accessible and secure internet. That's what they are about. If people don't trust the internet and believe they are secure, then that is counterproductive to their business." 





 
The plan has yet to receive the support of internet companies in China
The effort is already being seen by some as not going far enough. 
"After two years of effort, they have ended up with so little," said Morton Sklar executive director for the World Organisation for Human Rights USA. 
"It is very little more than a broad statement of support for a general principle without any concrete backup mechanism to ensure that the guidelines will be followed." 
Mr Posner of Human Rights First disputes that and said this agreement has not been set up as a "gotcha system" but as a way "to work with companies to get them to improve what they are doing, credit them when they do it and call them out if they fail." 
While it is hoped many more companies will sign up, two European telecommunications firms, France Telecom and Vodafone, are already said to be considering adding their names. 



 
..............................................................................................................................
“If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what am I?    And if not now, when?” - Rabbi Hillel
..............................................................................................................................




      
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