[governance] IGF, Hyderabad

Meryem Marzouki marzouki at ras.eu.org
Mon Nov 10 14:03:50 EST 2008


Hi Anja and all

You're right, the IGF starts on the 3rd (Wednesday), and GigaNet  
symposium is held on the 2nd, until 18:30.
Having an IGC meeting right after GigaNet business meeting (i.e.  
18:30-20:30) could be an option, especially since, most probably, we  
could keep the same room (Parminder, I can ask if you want me to do  
so, since I'm anyhow in contact with the IGF secretariat and with  
HICC event manager re: logistics issues).

Best,
Meryem

--
Meryem Marzouki - http://www.iris.sgdg.org
IRIS - Imaginons un réseau Internet solidaire
40 rue de la Justice - 75020 Paris


Le 10 nov. 08 à 08:32, Anja a écrit :

> Param, doesn't the IGF start on the 3rd?
>
> Anja
>
> Parminder wrote:
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC  
>> meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does  
>> the evening of 1^st (eve of IGF) or 2^nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound  
>> to all those who will be attending.
>>
>> I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF  
>> should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting  
>> to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the  
>> IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad,  
>> onwards.
>>
>> I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process.
>>
>> Parminder
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>>
>> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com]
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:47 AM
>> *To:* 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Parminder'
>> *Subject:* RE: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless  
>> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo
>>
>> Oh ***.#### - will I ever learn to check address lines before  
>> pressing send. That was meant to be offlist….
>>
>> Anyway I guess that pre-empts a couple of things we need to  
>> discuss in any case.
>>
>> Ian Peter
>>
>> PO Box 429
>>
>> Bangalow NSW 2479
>>
>> Australia
>>
>> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
>>
>> www.ianpeter.com
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>>
>> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com]
>> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 17:14
>> *To:* 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'; 'Parminder'
>> *Subject:* OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless  
>> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo
>>
>> Hi Parminder,
>>
>> Not sure we will get much of a statement on this together before  
>> Hyderabad, but should we organize a meeting of IGC say night  
>> before IGF starts to discuss some issues (we may have to get in  
>> early and be sure to avoid GigaNet and other events but something  
>> like that seems important). I’ll respond but will be interested to  
>> see what others say first.
>>
>> On another note I am going to begin to call for nominations for  
>> your co-ordinator position mid next week. I am going to release  
>> names periodically as they are received and certainly before  
>> Hyderabad. I am going to leave nominations open until post  
>> Hyderabad so that members can review nominees, talk to them, add  
>> names if no-one good is forthcoming etc before vote starts. I  
>> think that might be the way to get the best field.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Ian Peter
>>
>> PO Box 429
>>
>> Bangalow NSW 2479
>>
>> Australia
>>
>> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
>>
>> www.ianpeter.com
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>>
>> *From:* Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net]
>> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 16:51
>> *To:* 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance';  
>> governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET'
>> *Subject:* RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced  
>> marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo
>>
>> >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some  
>> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we  
>> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues  
>> (lest anyone take offence?)
>>
>> Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger.
>>
>> Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil  
>> society’s best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that  
>> is relatively representative of people and groups across the  
>> world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from  
>> strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on  
>> the other.
>>
>> However, many others in the civil society, including within the  
>> IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind  
>> strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue  
>> has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity  
>> of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive  
>> inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding,  
>> outputs on key IG issues.
>>
>> I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on  
>> this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need  
>> to be taken in view of current and emergent realities.
>>
>> It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the  
>> danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of  
>> any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would  
>> it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In  
>> light of such a review we may need to have clearer common  
>> positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want  
>> to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative  
>> in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start  
>> in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said  
>> and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications  
>> for this review.
>>
>> Parminder
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>>
>> *From:* gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org]  
>> *On Behalf Of *Ian Peter
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM
>> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET'
>> *Cc:* 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance'
>> *Subject:* [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage  
>> Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo
>>
>> The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the  
>> opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and  
>> avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time."
>>
>> Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some  
>> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we  
>> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues  
>> (lest anyone take offence?)
>>
>> My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in  
>> addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does  
>> succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick….
>>
>> Ian Peter
>>
>> PO Box 429
>>
>> Bangalow NSW 2479
>>
>> Australia
>>
>> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
>>
>> www.ianpeter.com
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>>
>> *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net]
>> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44
>> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang
>> *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance
>> *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re:  
>> [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo
>>
>> Dear Wolfgang
>>
>> Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most  
>> notably about the IGF.
>>
>> The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed.
>>
>> /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate  
>> actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was  
>> established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at  
>> the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around  
>> and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of  
>> time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And  
>> that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that  
>> we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize  
>> the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet- 
>> related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data  
>> protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of  
>> Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about  
>> Internet." It's an issue for everyone./
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Francis
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914
>>
>> 7 November 2008, 12:30
>>
>>
>>   *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage*
>>
>> ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better  
>> collaboration between the *International Telecommunication Union[1] 
>> * (ITU) and the *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and  
>> Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and  
>> criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that,"  
>> said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo.  
>> According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each  
>> other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications  
>> and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage".
>>
>> Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not  
>> spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting.  
>> Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his  
>> organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage  
>> and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively  
>> describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely  
>> cosmetic.
>>
>> The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation,  
>> which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi- 
>> internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further  
>> statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU.  
>> Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations.  
>> According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win  
>> a war, is to prevent it."
>>
>> In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively  
>> to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he  
>> noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with  
>> which ICANN is currently engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*,  
>> standardisation for the all-IP *Next Generation Network[4]* (NGN),  
>> cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child  
>> protection online.
>>
>> Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as  
>> global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has  
>> clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business."  
>> However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its  
>> *Cybersecurity Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global  
>> framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality.  
>> He also defended the controversial *IP traceback[6]* standard  
>> proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's  
>> just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré.
>>
>> Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed  
>> doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector  
>> members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs  
>> as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the  
>> *World Summit on the Information Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit,  
>> organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN  
>> summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the  
>> table, rather than demonstrating outside.
>>
>> In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the  
>> *Internet Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being  
>> by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is  
>> continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is  
>> becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is  
>> planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival  
>> event.
>>
>> Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work  
>> performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory  
>> Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was  
>> directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory  
>> Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system.  
>> "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it."  
>> The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted  
>> Touré forthrightly.
>>
>> In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian  
>> government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his  
>> and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC".  
>> Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by  
>> contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very  
>> different political models, "From the viewpoint of an  
>> international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak,  
>> because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an  
>> international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he  
>> opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between  
>> interested parties. He noted that both models have their  
>> advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn  
>> to operate within both models.
>>
>> (//Monika Ermert//)
>>
>> (*lghp[9]*)
>>
>> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
>>
>> **URL of this Article:**
>> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914
>>
>> **Links in this Article:**
>> [1] http://www.itu.int/
>> [2] http://www.icann.org
>> [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw- 
>> their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960
>> [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking
>> [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/
>> [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html
>> [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS
>> [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/
>> [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk
>>
>> Dear friends
>>  find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent  
>> ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very  
>> interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the  
>> principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very  
>> clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion  
>> and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual  
>> debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of  
>> cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of  
>> an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a  
>> network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and  
>> coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century.   Wolfgang
>> ____________________________________________________________
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>> -- 
>>
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>
> -- 
> Dr. Anja Kovacs
> Senior Research Associate
>
> IT for Change
> Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities
> Tel: (00-91-80) 2665 4134, 2653 6890
>
> www.ITforChange.net
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