[governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo

Sat Nov 8 03:37:35 EST 2008

Parminder and all,

  Frankly for the many years that I have been involved, I have never
seen any marriage, let alone loveless, between ICANN and the ITU.
Certainly the ITU is a significant standards organization that has more
or less influence on IT.  Yet it remains much maligned for many of it's
practices and is certainly not always friendly with the IETF, which is
the stated "Right Arm" of ICANN.

  Hence, I admit to bafflement in respect to this subject area...

Parminder wrote:

> >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some
> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically
> sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues (lest anyone take
> offence?)
>
> Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger.
>
> Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil societys
> best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that is relatively
> representative of people and groups across the world, and still has
> been able to maintain some distance from strong statist control on the
> one side and corporate control on the other.
>
> However, many others in the civil society, including within the IGC,
> have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind strengthening the
> IGF in all ways that we can  whether the issue has been of some
> substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity of the core IGF group
> (currently named MAG) or doing substantive inter-sessional work and
> giving some kind of real, if non-binding, outputs on key IG issues.
>
> I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on this
> issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need to be
> taken in view of current and emergent realities.
>
> It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of
> being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real
> importance takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in
> terms of civil society and progressive interests. In light of such a
> review we may need to have clearer common positions of how we want to
> engage with the IGF, and how we want to see it evolve. Such a review
> is an even more urgent imperative in view of the forthcoming process
> of IGF review which will start in earnest immediately after the IGF,
> Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at Hyderabad may have some
> important implications for this review.
>
> Parminder
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] On
> Behalf Of Ian Peter
>
> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET'
> Cc: 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance'
> Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re:
> [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo
>
> The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion
> that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding
> issues  it is becoming more and more a waste of time."
>
> Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some
> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically
> sweeping under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take
> offence?)
>
> My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesnt succeed in addressing
> the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation
> or globalisation? Take your pick
.
>
> Ian Peter
>
> PO Box 429
>
> Bangalow NSW 2479
>
> Australia
>
> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
>
> www.ianpeter.com
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net]
>
> Sent: 09 November 2008 15:44
> To:governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang
> Cc: WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance
> Subject: ITU and ICANN  a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance]
> ITU & ICANN in Cairo
>
> Dear Wolfgang
>
> Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably
> about the IGF.
>
> The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed.
>
> Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in
> the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the
> result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally
> believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the
> topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address
> issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I
> should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each
> other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum,
> which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues,
> ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and
> the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here,
> "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone.
>
> Best Francis
>
> ---------------------------------
> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914
> 7 November 2008, 12:30
>
> ITU and ICANN  a loveless forced marriage
>
> ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better
> collaboration between the International Telecommunication Union[1]
> (ITU) and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2]
> (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each
> other and I think we should put an end to that," said Touré on
> Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the
> two organisations need to get to know each other better and learn to
> love each other, as telecommunications and the internet are ultimately
> condemned to a "forced marriage".
>
> Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare
> the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made
> it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as
> playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion
> of the other party clear  provocatively describing ICANN's
> Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic.
>
> The depth of the chasm between the two  the UN organisation, which
> has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the
> quasi-internet-regulator ICANN  was stressed by a series of further
> statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré
> repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According
> to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to
> prevent it."
>
> In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to
> the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted,
> include the internationalisation of domains, something with which
> ICANN is currently engaged, the transition to IPv6[3], standardisation
> for the all-IP Next Generation Network[4] (NGN), cyber-security, the
> fight against online terrorism and child protection online.
>
> Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global
> regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear
> boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he
> underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its Cybersecurity
> Agenda[5], to be responsible for a global framework in the fight
> against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the
> controversial IP traceback[6] standard proposal. "There is not one
> country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it
> differently," said Touré.
>
> Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed
> doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members
> from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members.
> Touré also praised the ITU's openness  a nod to the World Summit on
> the Information Society[7] (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU
> auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil
> society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than
> demonstrating outside.
>
> In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the Internet
> Governance Forum[8] (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I
> am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round
> in circles and avoiding issues  it is becoming more and more a waste
> of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet
> policy next year as a rival event.
>
> Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work
> performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory
> Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was
> directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory
> Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If
> someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The
> ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré
> forthrightly.
>
> In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian
> government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and
> the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian
> diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted
> that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political
> models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the
> ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory,
> whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is,
> he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested
> parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and
> disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within
> both models.
>
> (Monika Ermert)
>
> (lghp[9])
>
>                 <hrsize=2 width="100%" align=center>
>
> URL of this Article:
> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914
>
> Links in this Article:
>   [1] http://www.itu.int/
>   [2] http://www.icann.org
>   [3]
> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960
>
>   [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking
>   [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/
>   [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html
>   [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS
>   [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/
>   [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> Dear friends
>
>
>
> find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century.
>
>
>
> Wolfgang
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
>
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date:
> 9/12/2008 2:18 PM
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln
"YES WE CAN!"  Barack ( Berry ) Obama

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
My Phone: 214-244-4827

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance