From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Tue Jul 1 03:58:57 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 17:58:57 +1000 Subject: [governance] What's Effect of Prolonged Surfing on The Net In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <09cc01c8db50$534979d0$8b00a8c0@IAN> Hi Aaron, Not sure I can be of great help here, but your question is intriguing so let me make a few observations. Firstly, a number of people who spend 14-16 hours on line have ended up very wealthy, and others have used the Internet to acquire useful knowledge that helped them advance their careers. Others have found lifelong friends and partners. I'm not going to openly criticize time on line - I guess what matters is what your friend's son is doing during those hours. What's his rationale? How is it helping him? Irrespective - that many hours on line requires some balanced physical activity during the day, and also good posture while on line. The Internet can exercise his mind (depending on what he is doing) but it can't exercise his body. Eye exercises can become particularly important after hours spent staring at a screen (in this respect, TV is just the same) Secondly, many people believe there is such a thing as internet addiction, and it can lead to unbalanced lifestyles. While I am absolutely sure that no-one on this list would have ever shown signs of addictive on line behaviour, medical experts have suggested that such conditions exist. (If you Google internet addiction you will see many references - Kimberly Young is one of the main writers in this field). Excessive twittering is a giveaway sign. Compulsive on line conversations about matters of no substance is another. But let me quote Sara Kiesler from Carnegie Mellon University, who has been writing about on line behaviour since before the Internet was called the Internet. Sara says "There is absolutely no evidence that spending time online, exchanging e-mail with family and friends, is the least bit harmful. We know that people who are depressed or anxious are likely to go online for escape and that doing so helps them." In her view, television addiction is worse! Ian Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron [mailto:nyangkweagien at gmail.com] > Sent: 30 June 2008 19:27 > To: WSIS Internet Governance Caucus > Subject: [governance] What's Effect of Prolonged Surfing on The Net > > Hi all > > My friend stumbled into my house this morning and told me that his 24 > years old son spends an average 14 to 16 hours on the Internet per > day. He asked if this young man was running any risk by doing so. > Can some one come to my rescue? > > Cheers > > Aaron > > -- > Aaron Agien Nyangkwe > Journalist/Outcome Mapper > Special Assistant To The President > Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. > ASAFE > P.O.Box 5213 > Douala-Cameroon > Tel. 237 3337 50 22 > Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 > Fax. 237 3342 29 70 > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1519 - Release Date: 6/25/2008 > 4:13 PM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From karenb at gn.apc.org Tue Jul 1 05:17:12 2008 From: karenb at gn.apc.org (karen banks) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:17:12 +0100 Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All Message-ID: <20080701091746.5969E5957B2@mail.gn.apc.org> Hi everyone Please find below a reworked text for the 'internet for all' workshop - which has evolved and in fact changed focus significantly since first posted to the caucus list. The caucus group working on this proposal (internet for all) have also been working with the Bill of Rights Coalition - who are submitting a 'mainstreaming-rights-into-IGF proposal' We have discussed at length how best to approach human rights and IG - how to bring a rights perspective to the IGF - and we will have a long way to go - but it is certainly a good start. The caucus folk and Bill of Rights folk will also express inhterest in helping to shape the main session of openness, security and privacy The proposal below is not in the workshop proposal format (yet) but parminder has asked the secretariat for a short extension - wherein we will need to get the proposal into the template and identify some speakers.. karen “Internet for All – Exploring a Rights-based Approach” Internet for All has been proposed as the overall theme for the IGF, Hyderabad. The program document also states that this description is adapted from the UNESCO’s ‘Education for All’ initiative. Education for All takes a rights based approach to education, and also a very nuanced view of ‘what kind of education’ as well as the enabling conditions that are required for providing education for all ( http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=47044&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html ) . This workshop will explore what does a ‘Rights-based Approach to Internet for All’ means, and whether it provides the basis of an appropriate and viable set of guidelines in the area of Internet policies. Universal service and universal access are widely accepted policy principles in case of telecom policies. However, the meaning and context of these terms in case of Internet is still not clear. Unlike telephony, Internet is much more than a ‘connection’ that ‘either you have or you don’t’. A draft resolution recommended by the 11th session of CSTD for adoption by the ECOSOC (http://www.unctad.org/sections/wcmu/docs//ecn162008_r004_en.pdf ) recently noted that ‘a new form of digital divide is emerging in terms of difference in quality and speed of access to ICTs’ ( OECD has also been grappling with definitional issues regarding universal access in terms of the Internet ( http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/57/40629067.pdf ). Apart from the issues about what width of the pipe can constitute universal entitlement or a right, if at all, there are also at least two other sets of issues which need to be explored from a rights perspective (1) enabling conditions for making effective use of the available access and (2) the kind of the Internet one has access to. A rights based approach to “Internet for All’ or what may be called as a ‘right to the Internet’ therefore has to explored in terms of many issues that go beyond mere access to the Internet, while including this important element. Enabling conditions could be in terms of training and capacity building as well as the social, organizational, and managerial infrastructure. The “Education for All’ movement recognizes such conditions that are outside and beyond mere access to schools which are pertinent to ensuring education for all. Other set of issues are about what kind of Internet does one have access to. This corresponds to quality and appropriateness of education in the ‘education for all’ movement. For instance, is one entitled to an Internet that recognizes one’s own language? It is significant to note in this respect that a recent UNESCO document speaks about ‘‘the right to learn in the mother tongue’ ( http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001297/129728e.pdf ). The WSIS declaration of Principles speaks of an “information society where everyone can create, access, utilize and share information”. Does it translate into a right to do so? What implication would such a right have on Internet policies, for instance with respect to network neutrality debate. Similarly, issues like online security, privacy and FoE may be possible to explore from a rights perspective to ‘Internet for all’. Another set of issues are with respect to groups needing special consideration like people with disabilities, whose right to access to ‘new information and communications technologies and systems, including the Internet’ is recognized by the ‘International Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities’ which came into force recently. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Tue Jul 1 07:33:45 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 17:03:45 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All In-Reply-To: <20080701091746.5969E5957B2@mail.gn.apc.org> Message-ID: <20080701113724.78B8067912@smtp1.electricembers.net> I request that comments etc be provided on this proposal in the next 48 hours, so that if approved by the caucus we can submit it by end of Thursday. Pl also indicate if more time is needed for discussion, though we have very little maneuvering space vis a vis the deadline which, in fact, is already past. Thanks Parminder > -----Original Message----- > From: karen banks [mailto:karenb at gn.apc.org] > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 2:47 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All > > Hi everyone > > Please find below a reworked text for the > 'internet for all' workshop - which has evolved > and in fact changed focus significantly since first posted to the caucus > list. > > The caucus group working on this proposal > (internet for all) have also been working with > the Bill of Rights Coalition - who are > submitting a 'mainstreaming-rights-into-IGF proposal' > > We have discussed at length how best to approach > human rights and IG - how to bring a rights > perspective to the IGF - and we will have a long > way to go - but it is certainly a good start. > > The caucus folk and Bill of Rights folk will also > express inhterest in helping to shape the main > session of openness, security and privacy > > The proposal below is not in the workshop > proposal format (yet) but parminder has asked the > secretariat for a short extension - wherein we > will need to get the proposal into the template and identify some > speakers.. > > karen > > "Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach" > > Internet for All has been proposed as the overall > theme for the IGF, Hyderabad. The program > document also states that this description is > adapted from the UNESCO's 'Education for All' > initiative. Education for All takes a rights > based approach to education, and also a very > nuanced view of 'what kind of education' as well > as the enabling conditions that are required for > providing education for all ( > http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php- > URL_ID=47044&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html > ) . This workshop will explore what does a > 'Rights-based Approach to Internet for All' > means, and whether it provides the basis of an > appropriate and viable set of guidelines in the area of Internet policies. > > Universal service and universal access are widely > accepted policy principles in case of telecom > policies. However, the meaning and context of > these terms in case of Internet is still not > clear. Unlike telephony, Internet is much more > than a 'connection' that 'either you have or you > don't'. A draft resolution recommended by the > 11th session of CSTD for adoption by the ECOSOC > (http://www.unctad.org/sections/wcmu/docs//ecn162008_r004_en.pdf > ) recently noted that 'a new form of digital > divide is emerging in terms of difference in > quality and speed of access to ICTs' ( OECD has > also been grappling with definitional issues > regarding universal access in terms of the > Internet ( http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/57/40629067.pdf ). > > Apart from the issues about what width of the > pipe can constitute universal entitlement or a > right, if at all, there are also at least two > other sets of issues which need to be explored > from a rights perspective (1) enabling conditions > for making effective use of the available access > and (2) the kind of the Internet one has access > to. A rights based approach to "Internet for > All' or what may be called as a 'right to the > Internet' therefore has to explored in terms of > many issues that go beyond mere access to the > Internet, while including this important element. > > Enabling conditions could be in terms of training > and capacity building as well as the social, > organizational, and managerial infrastructure. > The "Education for All' movement recognizes such > conditions that are outside and beyond mere > access to schools which are pertinent to ensuring education for all. > > Other set of issues are about what kind of > Internet does one have access to. This > corresponds to quality and appropriateness of > education in the 'education for all' movement. > For instance, is one entitled to an Internet that > recognizes one's own language? It is significant > to note in this respect that a recent UNESCO > document speaks about ''the right to learn in the > mother tongue' ( > http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001297/129728e.pdf > ). The WSIS declaration of Principles speaks of > an "information society where everyone can > create, access, utilize and share information". > Does it translate into a right to do so? What > implication would such a right have on Internet > policies, for instance with respect to network > neutrality debate. Similarly, issues like online > security, privacy and FoE may be possible to > explore from a rights perspective to 'Internet for all'. > > Another set of issues are with respect to groups > needing special consideration like people with > disabilities, whose right to access to 'new > information and communications technologies and > systems, including the Internet' is recognized by > the 'International Convention on the Rights of > Persons with Disabilities' which came into force recently. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From b.schombe at gmail.com Tue Jul 1 09:49:23 2008 From: b.schombe at gmail.com (BAUDOUIN SCHOMBE) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 15:49:23 +0200 Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All In-Reply-To: <20080701091746.5969E5957B2@mail.gn.apc.org> References: <20080701091746.5969E5957B2@mail.gn.apc.org> Message-ID: Karen, In this stage, I don't have any comment. Baudouin 2008/7/1 karen banks : > Hi everyone > > Please find below a reworked text for the 'internet for all' workshop - > which has evolved and in fact changed focus significantly since first posted > to the caucus list. > > The caucus group working on this proposal (internet for all) have also been > working with the Bill of Rights Coalition - who are submitting a > 'mainstreaming-rights-into-IGF proposal' > > We have discussed at length how best to approach human rights and IG - how > to bring a rights perspective to the IGF - and we will have a long way to go > - but it is certainly a good start. > > The caucus folk and Bill of Rights folk will also express inhterest in > helping to shape the main session of openness, security and privacy > > The proposal below is not in the workshop proposal format (yet) but > parminder has asked the secretariat for a short extension - wherein we will > need to get the proposal into the template and identify some speakers.. > > karen > > "Internet for All – Exploring a Rights-based Approach" > > Internet for All has been proposed as the overall theme for the IGF, > Hyderabad. The program document also states that this description is adapted > from the UNESCO's 'Education for All' initiative. Education for All takes a > rights based approach to education, and also a very nuanced view of 'what > kind of education' as well as the enabling conditions that are required for > providing education for all ( > http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=47044&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html) . This workshop will explore what does a 'Rights-based Approach to > Internet for All' means, and whether it provides the basis of an appropriate > and viable set of guidelines in the area of Internet policies. > > Universal service and universal access are widely accepted policy > principles in case of telecom policies. However, the meaning and context of > these terms in case of Internet is still not clear. Unlike telephony, > Internet is much more than a 'connection' that 'either you have or you > don't'. A draft resolution recommended by the 11th session of CSTD for > adoption by the ECOSOC ( > http://www.unctad.org/sections/wcmu/docs//ecn162008_r004_en.pdf ) recently > noted that 'a new form of digital divide is emerging in terms of difference > in quality and speed of access to ICTs' ( OECD has also been grappling with > definitional issues regarding universal access in terms of the Internet ( > http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/57/40629067.pdf ). > > Apart from the issues about what width of the pipe can constitute universal > entitlement or a right, if at all, there are also at least two other sets of > issues which need to be explored from a rights perspective (1) enabling > conditions for making effective use of the available access and (2) the kind > of the Internet one has access to. A rights based approach to "Internet for > All' or what may be called as a 'right to the Internet' therefore has to > explored in terms of many issues that go beyond mere access to the Internet, > while including this important element. > > Enabling conditions could be in terms of training and capacity building as > well as the social, organizational, and managerial infrastructure. The > "Education for All' movement recognizes such conditions that are outside and > beyond mere access to schools which are pertinent to ensuring education for > all. > > Other set of issues are about what kind of Internet does one have access > to. This corresponds to quality and appropriateness of education in the > 'education for all' movement. For instance, is one entitled to an Internet > that recognizes one's own language? It is significant to note in this > respect that a recent UNESCO document speaks about ''the right to learn in > the mother tongue' ( > http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001297/129728e.pdf ). The WSIS > declaration of Principles speaks of an "information society where everyone > can create, access, utilize and share information". Does it translate into a > right to do so? What implication would such a right have on Internet > policies, for instance with respect to network neutrality debate. Similarly, > issues like online security, privacy and FoE may be possible to explore from > a rights perspective to 'Internet for all'. > > Another set of issues are with respect to groups needing special > consideration like people with disabilities, whose right to access to 'new > information and communications technologies and systems, including the > Internet' is recognized by the 'International Convention on the Rights of > Persons with Disabilities' which came into force recently. > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN COORDONNATEUR NATIONAL REPRONTIC COORDONNATEUR SOUS REGIONAL ACSIS/AFRIQUE CENTRALE MEMBRE FACILITATEUR GAID AFRIQUE Tél:+243998983491 email:b.schombe at gmail.com http://akimambo.unblog.fr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 1 02:05:19 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:05:19 -0700 Subject: [governance] What's Effect of Prolonged Surfing on The Net References: <09cc01c8db50$534979d0$8b00a8c0@IAN> Message-ID: <4869C91F.1F6E9D6E@ix.netcom.com> Hi Peter, Aron and all, I agree with you Peter. It' not how much time someone spends online, it's how they spend it, IMO anyway. Some people associate lengthy times online as some sort of behavioral disorder. Sometimes they are right, and sometimes they are wrong. The determination as to when and which, is purely subjective. But than again social engineers love and relish in subjective issues and their arguments, especially online! >:P Now lets see, is that a behavioral disorder as well? Ian Peter wrote: > Hi Aaron, > > Not sure I can be of great help here, but your question is intriguing so let > me make a few observations. > > Firstly, a number of people who spend 14-16 hours on line have ended up very > wealthy, and others have used the Internet to acquire useful knowledge that > helped them advance their careers. Others have found lifelong friends and > partners. I'm not going to openly criticize time on line - I guess what > matters is what your friend's son is doing during those hours. What's his > rationale? How is it helping him? > > Irrespective - that many hours on line requires some balanced physical > activity during the day, and also good posture while on line. The Internet > can exercise his mind (depending on what he is doing) but it can't exercise > his body. Eye exercises can become particularly important after hours spent > staring at a screen (in this respect, TV is just the same) > > Secondly, many people believe there is such a thing as internet addiction, > and it can lead to unbalanced lifestyles. While I am absolutely sure that > no-one on this list would have ever shown signs of addictive on line > behaviour, medical experts have suggested that such conditions exist. (If > you Google internet addiction you will see many references - Kimberly Young > is one of the main writers in this field). > > Excessive twittering is a giveaway sign. Compulsive on line conversations > about matters of no substance is another. > > But let me quote Sara Kiesler from Carnegie Mellon University, who has been > writing about on line behaviour since before the Internet was called the > Internet. Sara says "There is absolutely no evidence that spending time > online, exchanging e-mail with family and friends, is the least bit harmful. > We know that people who are depressed or anxious are likely to go online for > escape and that doing so helps them." > > In her view, television addiction is worse! > > Ian Peter > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron [mailto:nyangkweagien at gmail.com] > > Sent: 30 June 2008 19:27 > > To: WSIS Internet Governance Caucus > > Subject: [governance] What's Effect of Prolonged Surfing on The Net > > > > Hi all > > > > My friend stumbled into my house this morning and told me that his 24 > > years old son spends an average 14 to 16 hours on the Internet per > > day. He asked if this young man was running any risk by doing so. > > Can some one come to my rescue? > > > > Cheers > > > > Aaron > > > > -- > > Aaron Agien Nyangkwe > > Journalist/Outcome Mapper > > Special Assistant To The President > > Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. > > ASAFE > > P.O.Box 5213 > > Douala-Cameroon > > Tel. 237 3337 50 22 > > Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 > > Fax. 237 3342 29 70 > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1519 - Release Date: 6/25/2008 > > 4:13 PM > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 1 02:07:55 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:07:55 -0700 Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All References: <20080701113724.78B8067912@smtp1.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <4869C9BA.B7E90AAA@ix.netcom.com> Parminder and all, Wow! that's kinda a short time to give the proposal a good think, don't you think? Parminder wrote: > I request that comments etc be provided on this proposal in the next 48 > hours, so that if approved by the caucus we can submit it by end of > Thursday. Pl also indicate if more time is needed for discussion, though we > have very little maneuvering space vis a vis the deadline which, in fact, is > already past. > > Thanks > > Parminder > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: karen banks [mailto:karenb at gn.apc.org] > > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 2:47 PM > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > > Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All > > > > Hi everyone > > > > Please find below a reworked text for the > > 'internet for all' workshop - which has evolved > > and in fact changed focus significantly since first posted to the caucus > > list. > > > > The caucus group working on this proposal > > (internet for all) have also been working with > > the Bill of Rights Coalition - who are > > submitting a 'mainstreaming-rights-into-IGF proposal' > > > > We have discussed at length how best to approach > > human rights and IG - how to bring a rights > > perspective to the IGF - and we will have a long > > way to go - but it is certainly a good start. > > > > The caucus folk and Bill of Rights folk will also > > express inhterest in helping to shape the main > > session of openness, security and privacy > > > > The proposal below is not in the workshop > > proposal format (yet) but parminder has asked the > > secretariat for a short extension - wherein we > > will need to get the proposal into the template and identify some > > speakers.. > > > > karen > > > > "Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach" > > > > Internet for All has been proposed as the overall > > theme for the IGF, Hyderabad. The program > > document also states that this description is > > adapted from the UNESCO's 'Education for All' > > initiative. Education for All takes a rights > > based approach to education, and also a very > > nuanced view of 'what kind of education' as well > > as the enabling conditions that are required for > > providing education for all ( > > http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php- > > URL_ID=47044&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html > > ) . This workshop will explore what does a > > 'Rights-based Approach to Internet for All' > > means, and whether it provides the basis of an > > appropriate and viable set of guidelines in the area of Internet policies. > > > > Universal service and universal access are widely > > accepted policy principles in case of telecom > > policies. However, the meaning and context of > > these terms in case of Internet is still not > > clear. Unlike telephony, Internet is much more > > than a 'connection' that 'either you have or you > > don't'. A draft resolution recommended by the > > 11th session of CSTD for adoption by the ECOSOC > > (http://www.unctad.org/sections/wcmu/docs//ecn162008_r004_en.pdf > > ) recently noted that 'a new form of digital > > divide is emerging in terms of difference in > > quality and speed of access to ICTs' ( OECD has > > also been grappling with definitional issues > > regarding universal access in terms of the > > Internet ( http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/57/40629067.pdf ). > > > > Apart from the issues about what width of the > > pipe can constitute universal entitlement or a > > right, if at all, there are also at least two > > other sets of issues which need to be explored > > from a rights perspective (1) enabling conditions > > for making effective use of the available access > > and (2) the kind of the Internet one has access > > to. A rights based approach to "Internet for > > All' or what may be called as a 'right to the > > Internet' therefore has to explored in terms of > > many issues that go beyond mere access to the > > Internet, while including this important element. > > > > Enabling conditions could be in terms of training > > and capacity building as well as the social, > > organizational, and managerial infrastructure. > > The "Education for All' movement recognizes such > > conditions that are outside and beyond mere > > access to schools which are pertinent to ensuring education for all. > > > > Other set of issues are about what kind of > > Internet does one have access to. This > > corresponds to quality and appropriateness of > > education in the 'education for all' movement. > > For instance, is one entitled to an Internet that > > recognizes one's own language? It is significant > > to note in this respect that a recent UNESCO > > document speaks about ''the right to learn in the > > mother tongue' ( > > http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001297/129728e.pdf > > ). The WSIS declaration of Principles speaks of > > an "information society where everyone can > > create, access, utilize and share information". > > Does it translate into a right to do so? What > > implication would such a right have on Internet > > policies, for instance with respect to network > > neutrality debate. Similarly, issues like online > > security, privacy and FoE may be possible to > > explore from a rights perspective to 'Internet for all'. > > > > Another set of issues are with respect to groups > > needing special consideration like people with > > disabilities, whose right to access to 'new > > information and communications technologies and > > systems, including the Internet' is recognized by > > the 'International Convention on the Rights of > > Persons with Disabilities' which came into force recently. > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 03:46:42 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 00:46:42 -0700 Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All In-Reply-To: <20080701091746.5969E5957B2@mail.gn.apc.org> Message-ID: <033701c8dc17$d2c2cf00$6701a8c0@michael78xnoln> I think that Karen who seems to be off line sent an earlier version of this. "Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach" Internet for All is the proposed theme for the IGF, Hyderabad and is adapted from UNESCO's 'Education for All' initiative. 'Education for All' takes a rights based approach to education and presents nuanced view the enabling conditions for providing education for all (http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=47044&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&U RL_SECTION=201.html ) . The proposed "Internet for All-Exploring a Rights-based Approach" workshop will explore what a 'Rights-based' approach to Internet for All (including other related concepts such as e-Inclusion and 'Universal Service') would mean and whether it could provide the basis for Internet policy in this area. Universal service and universal access are widely accepted telecom policy principles. However, these are less clear in area of the Internet where the Internet involves areas of much more active 'use' and multi-layered types of interaction and development than the simple connection' with the telephone. To mention only one aspect of this a draft resolution recommended for ECOSOC by the 11th session of the CSTD http://www.unctad.org/sections/wcmu/docs//ecn162008_r004_en.pdf recently noted that 'a new form of digital divide is emerging in terms of difference in quality and speed of access to ICTs' (the OECD has also been grappling with definitional issues regarding universal access in terms of the Internet http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/57/40629067.pdf ). Other issues to be explored from a 'rights' perspective include a determination of the enabling conditions for realizing effective use of the available 'access' and the characteristics of the Internet to which one has access. A rights based approach to "Internet for All' or what may be referred to as a 'right to the Internet' may include issues that go beyond mere access as for example the enabling conditions such as training, capacity building and the development of the social, organizational, and managerial infrastructure that can make access meaningful and useful. The "Education for All' movement recognizes that conditions such as these are pertinent to ensuring education for all beyond simple access to schools.. This corresponds to quality and appropriateness of the substantive content and presentation of the Internet - language including use of non-Roman scripts are of particular significance here and correspond in the 'education for all' context to what is spoken of in a recent UNESCO document as 'the right to learn in the mother tongue' (http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001297/129728e.pdf). The WSIS declaration of Principles speaks of an "information society where everyone can create, access, utilize and share information". Does this translate into a right to do so? What would be the implications of a right on Internet policies, for instance with respect to the network neutrality debate. Similarly, issues such as online security, privacy and FoE may be possible to explore from a rights perspective in the context of the possible significance in enabling or restricting an 'Internet for all'. A further set of issues more directly linked to an e-Inclusion definition of 'Internet for all' would include groups needing special consideration such as people with disabilities, whose right to access to 'new information and communications technologies and systems, including the Internet' as is recognized by the recently concluded 'International Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities'. -----Original Message----- From: karen banks [mailto:karenb at gn.apc.org] Sent: July 1, 2008 2:17 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All Hi everyone Please find below a reworked text for the 'internet for all' workshop - which has evolved and in fact changed focus significantly since first posted to the caucus list. The caucus group working on this proposal (internet for all) have also been working with the Bill of Rights Coalition - who are submitting a 'mainstreaming-rights-into-IGF proposal' We have discussed at length how best to approach human rights and IG - how to bring a rights perspective to the IGF - and we will have a long way to go - but it is certainly a good start. The caucus folk and Bill of Rights folk will also express inhterest in helping to shape the main session of openness, security and privacy The proposal below is not in the workshop proposal format (yet) but parminder has asked the secretariat for a short extension - wherein we will need to get the proposal into the template and identify some speakers.. karen "Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach" Internet for All has been proposed as the overall theme for the IGF, Hyderabad. The program document also states that this description is adapted from the UNESCO's 'Education for All' initiative. Education for All takes a rights based approach to education, and also a very nuanced view of 'what kind of education' as well as the enabling conditions that are required for providing education for all ( http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=47044&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&UR L_SECTION=201.html ) . This workshop will explore what does a 'Rights-based Approach to Internet for All' means, and whether it provides the basis of an appropriate and viable set of guidelines in the area of Internet policies. Universal service and universal access are widely accepted policy principles in case of telecom policies. However, the meaning and context of these terms in case of Internet is still not clear. Unlike telephony, Internet is much more than a 'connection' that 'either you have or you don't'. A draft resolution recommended by the 11th session of CSTD for adoption by the ECOSOC (http://www.unctad.org/sections/wcmu/docs//ecn162008_r004_en.pdf ) recently noted that 'a new form of digital divide is emerging in terms of difference in quality and speed of access to ICTs' ( OECD has also been grappling with definitional issues regarding universal access in terms of the Internet ( http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/57/40629067.pdf ). Apart from the issues about what width of the pipe can constitute universal entitlement or a right, if at all, there are also at least two other sets of issues which need to be explored from a rights perspective (1) enabling conditions for making effective use of the available access and (2) the kind of the Internet one has access to. A rights based approach to "Internet for All' or what may be called as a 'right to the Internet' therefore has to explored in terms of many issues that go beyond mere access to the Internet, while including this important element. Enabling conditions could be in terms of training and capacity building as well as the social, organizational, and managerial infrastructure. The "Education for All' movement recognizes such conditions that are outside and beyond mere access to schools which are pertinent to ensuring education for all. Other set of issues are about what kind of Internet does one have access to. This corresponds to quality and appropriateness of education in the 'education for all' movement. For instance, is one entitled to an Internet that recognizes one's own language? It is significant to note in this respect that a recent UNESCO document speaks about ''the right to learn in the mother tongue' ( http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001297/129728e.pdf ). The WSIS declaration of Principles speaks of an "information society where everyone can create, access, utilize and share information". Does it translate into a right to do so? What implication would such a right have on Internet policies, for instance with respect to network neutrality debate. Similarly, issues like online security, privacy and FoE may be possible to explore from a rights perspective to 'Internet for all'. Another set of issues are with respect to groups needing special consideration like people with disabilities, whose right to access to 'new information and communications technologies and systems, including the Internet' is recognized by the 'International Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities' which came into force recently. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Wed Jul 2 13:52:45 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 10:52:45 -0700 Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) Message-ID: <03a201c8dc6c$885bb7b0$6701a8c0@michael78xnoln> Just to be clear, This below is an updated version of the one that Karen sent and should be the one used for comments and suggestions. MG > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Gurstein [mailto:gurstein at gmail.com] > Sent: July 2, 2008 12:47 AM > To: 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'; 'karen banks' > Subject: RE: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All > > I think that Karen who seems to be off line sent an earlier version of > this. > > "Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach" > Internet for All is the proposed theme for the IGF, Hyderabad and is > adapted from UNESCO's 'Education for All' initiative. 'Education for All' > takes a rights based approach to education and presents nuanced view the > enabling conditions for providing education for all > (http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=47044&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC > &URL_SECTION=201.html ) . The proposed "Internet for All-Exploring a > Rights-based Approach" workshop will explore what a 'Rights-based' > approach to Internet for All (including other related concepts such as > e-Inclusion and 'Universal Service') would mean and whether it could > provide the basis for Internet policy in this area. > > Universal service and universal access are widely accepted telecom policy > principles. However, these are less clear in area of the Internet where > the Internet involves areas of much more active 'use' and multi-layered > types of interaction and development than the simple connection' with the > telephone. To mention only one aspect of this a draft resolution > recommended for ECOSOC by the 11th session of the CSTD > http://www.unctad.org/sections/wcmu/docs//ecn162008_r004_en.pdf recently > noted that 'a new form of digital divide is emerging in terms of > difference in quality and speed of access to ICTs' (the OECD has also been > grappling with definitional issues regarding universal access in terms of > the Internet http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/57/40629067.pdf ). > > Other issues to be explored from a 'rights' perspective include a > determination of the enabling conditions for realizing effective use of > the available 'access' and the characteristics of the Internet to which > one has access. A rights based approach to "Internet for All' or what may > be referred to as a 'right to the Internet' may include issues that go > beyond mere access as for example the enabling conditions such as > training, capacity building and the development of the social, > organizational, and managerial infrastructure that can make access > meaningful and useful. The "Education for All' movement recognizes that > conditions such as these are pertinent to ensuring education for all > beyond simple access to schools.. > > This corresponds to quality and appropriateness of the substantive content > and presentation of the Internet - language including use of non-Roman > scripts are of particular significance here and correspond in the > 'education for all' context to what is spoken of in a recent UNESCO > document as 'the right to learn in the mother tongue' > (http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001297/129728e.pdf). > > The WSIS declaration of Principles speaks of an "information society where > everyone can create, access, utilize and share information". Does this > translate into a right to do so? What would be the implications of a right > on Internet policies, for instance with respect to the network neutrality > debate. Similarly, issues such as online security, privacy and FoE may be > possible to explore from a rights perspective in the context of the > possible significance in enabling or restricting an 'Internet for all'. > > A further set of issues more directly linked to an e-Inclusion definition > of 'Internet for all' would include groups needing special consideration > such as people with disabilities, whose right to access to 'new > information and communications technologies and systems, including the > Internet' as is recognized by the recently concluded 'International > Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities'. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: karen banks [mailto:karenb at gn.apc.org] > Sent: July 1, 2008 2:17 AM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All > > > Hi everyone > > Please find below a reworked text for the > 'internet for all' workshop - which has evolved > and in fact changed focus significantly since first posted to the caucus > list. > > The caucus group working on this proposal > (internet for all) have also been working with > the Bill of Rights Coalition - who are > submitting a 'mainstreaming-rights-into-IGF proposal' > > We have discussed at length how best to approach > human rights and IG - how to bring a rights > perspective to the IGF - and we will have a long > way to go - but it is certainly a good start. > > The caucus folk and Bill of Rights folk will also > express inhterest in helping to shape the main > session of openness, security and privacy > > The proposal below is not in the workshop > proposal format (yet) but parminder has asked the > secretariat for a short extension - wherein we > will need to get the proposal into the template and identify some > speakers.. > > karen > > "Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach" > > Internet for All has been proposed as the overall > theme for the IGF, Hyderabad. The program > document also states that this description is > adapted from the UNESCO's 'Education for All' > initiative. Education for All takes a rights > based approach to education, and also a very > nuanced view of 'what kind of education' as well > as the enabling conditions that are required for > providing education for all ( > http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=47044&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC& > URL_SECTION=201.html > ) . This workshop will explore what does a > 'Rights-based Approach to Internet for All' > means, and whether it provides the basis of an > appropriate and viable set of guidelines in the area of Internet policies. > > Universal service and universal access are widely > accepted policy principles in case of telecom > policies. However, the meaning and context of > these terms in case of Internet is still not > clear. Unlike telephony, Internet is much more > than a 'connection' that 'either you have or you > don't'. A draft resolution recommended by the > 11th session of CSTD for adoption by the ECOSOC > (http://www.unctad.org/sections/wcmu/docs//ecn162008_r004_en.pdf > ) recently noted that 'a new form of digital > divide is emerging in terms of difference in > quality and speed of access to ICTs' ( OECD has > also been grappling with definitional issues > regarding universal access in terms of the > Internet ( http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/57/40629067.pdf ). > > Apart from the issues about what width of the > pipe can constitute universal entitlement or a > right, if at all, there are also at least two > other sets of issues which need to be explored > from a rights perspective (1) enabling conditions > for making effective use of the available access > and (2) the kind of the Internet one has access > to. A rights based approach to "Internet for > All' or what may be called as a 'right to the > Internet' therefore has to explored in terms of > many issues that go beyond mere access to the > Internet, while including this important element. > > Enabling conditions could be in terms of training > and capacity building as well as the social, > organizational, and managerial infrastructure. > The "Education for All' movement recognizes such > conditions that are outside and beyond mere > access to schools which are pertinent to ensuring education for all. > > Other set of issues are about what kind of > Internet does one have access to. This > corresponds to quality and appropriateness of > education in the 'education for all' movement. > For instance, is one entitled to an Internet that > recognizes one's own language? It is significant > to note in this respect that a recent UNESCO > document speaks about ''the right to learn in the > mother tongue' ( > http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001297/129728e.pdf > ). The WSIS declaration of Principles speaks of > an "information society where everyone can > create, access, utilize and share information". > Does it translate into a right to do so? What > implication would such a right have on Internet > policies, for instance with respect to network > neutrality debate. Similarly, issues like online > security, privacy and FoE may be possible to > explore from a rights perspective to 'Internet for all'. > > Another set of issues are with respect to groups > needing special consideration like people with > disabilities, whose right to access to 'new > information and communications technologies and > systems, including the Internet' is recognized by > the 'International Convention on the Rights of > Persons with Disabilities' which came into force recently. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From KovenRonald at aol.com Wed Jul 2 11:30:45 2008 From: KovenRonald at aol.com (KovenRonald at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:30:45 EDT Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) Message-ID: Dear All -- On the question of freedom of expression and the Internet, the position of the press freedom groups of the Coordinating Committee of Press Freedom Organizations, to which the World Press Freedom Committee belongs, has been the same as that taken by leading delegations such as that of Canada and others in the WSIS, that there should be "no new rights" but that there is a need for reaffirmation of existing rights, notably Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. In this 60th anniversary year of the UDHR, the Coordinating Committee adopted a resolution just last month in Belgrade that there is nothing to add or to subtract from Art. 19 and that it is time to work for its full implenentation in the world. I append the text below. While I understand the desire to explore other aspects of Internet access, I strongly feel that, when it comes to freedom of expression, any attempts to "improve" on Art. 19 in an intergovernmental context will only lead to watering down its unqualified call for free speech, on and off-line. It was a major struggle to get Art. 19 into the final WSIS texts, a struggle in which pretty much all of the civil society groups took part cooperatively. Nothing being proposed here should now come to undermine the notable success of that effort. We are prepared to reiterate the above points in Hyderabad. Best regards, Ronald Koven European Representative World Press Freedom Committee COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS INTER AMERICAN PRESS ASSOCIATION INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BROADCASTING INTERNATIONAL PRESS INSTITUTE WORLD ASSOCIATION OF NEWSPAPERS WORLD PRESS FREEDOM COMMITTEE Resolution on Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights The Coordinating Committee of Press Freedom Organizations, meeting in Belgrade June 18, 2008, hailed forthcoming United Nations commemorations of the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and called upon UN bodies and their member states to act to implement their pledge of freedom of expression and of press freedom, as contained in the Declaration's Article 19: "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers." While means of enforcement were not provided for when the UN voted that text on Dec. 10, 1948, it has been widely recognized by the world's most prestigi ous national and international courts as now constituting international customary law. It was a pledge by the international community to enshrine free speech and a free press among the fundamental rights for everyone everywhere. Article 19 has stood the test of time. The text was prescient. There is nothing to add and nothing to subtract. Its provision of the free flow of "information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers" made it possible to move from a world in which short wave radio was the main transfrontier news outlet to one that encompasses all later developments in communications technology, including direct satellite broadcasting and the Internet. Contrary to some later assertions, it was not produced solely by Western countries but by a globally representative group of countries. The Drafting Committee that wrote it comprised Australia, Chile, China, France, Lebanon, Soviet Union, United Kingdom, and United States, represented by Eleanor Roosevelt, who chaired the Committee. It was adopted without dissent by the UN General Assembly. The only problem with Article 19 is that it is not respected nor implemented everywhere. The time is long past for the United Nations to move to make it so. Those countries that ignore their commitments to respect freedom of expression and freedom of the press should be enjoined to do so. Failure to honor those commitments should be treated as a serious breach and should be sanctioned by such measures as exclusion from UN human rights bodies. The UN system should reinforce its aid to the development of independent news outlets everywhere. We members of the Coordinating Committee of Press Freedom Organizations, representing journalists and news outlets throughout the world, call upon the United Nations and its agencies to move now from their promise of global press freedom to adopt measures for implementation needed to transform that promise into practice. ************** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From avri at psg.com Wed Jul 2 11:58:08 2008 From: avri at psg.com (Avri Doria) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:58:08 +0200 Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96B7D1F7-7F82-43C6-825D-7F9C113D9E79@psg.com> Hi, Perhaps there isn't anything to subtract from article 19 other then the effects of article 29? i sometimes worry that people are so focused on the positive value of 19 that they miss the fact that 29 allows a lot of abrogation of that positiveness. Unfortunately article 29 made into the WSIS texts as well. a. For anyone who does not remember 29 - the get out of FOE free article: Article 29. (1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible. (2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society. (3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations. On 2 Jul 2008, at 17:30, KovenRonald at aol.com wrote: > Dear All -- > > On the question of freedom of expression and the Internet, the > position of the press freedom groups of the Coordinating Committee > of Press Freedom Organizations, to which the World Press Freedom > Committee belongs, has been the same as that taken by leading > delegations such as that of Canada and others in the WSIS, that > there should be "no new rights" but that there is a need for > reaffirmation of existing rights, notably Article 19 of the > Universal Declaration of Human Rights. > > In this 60th anniversary year of the UDHR, the Coordinating > Committee adopted a resolution just last month in Belgrade that > there is nothing to add or to subtract from Art. 19 and that it is > time to work for its full implenentation in the world. I append the > text below. > > While I understand the desire to explore other aspects of Internet > access, I strongly feel that, when it comes to freedom of > expression, any attempts to "improve" on Art. 19 in an > intergovernmental context will only lead to watering down its > unqualified call for free speech, on and off-line. > > It was a major struggle to get Art. 19 into the final WSIS texts, a > struggle in which pretty much all of the civil society groups took > part cooperatively. Nothing being proposed here should now come to > undermine the notable success of that effort. > > We are prepared to reiterate the above points in Hyderabad. > > Best regards, > Ronald Koven > European Representative > World Press Freedom Committee > > COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS > INTER AMERICAN PRESS ASSOCIATION > INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BROADCASTING > INTERNATIONAL PRESS INSTITUTE > WORLD ASSOCIATION OF NEWSPAPERS > WORLD PRESS FREEDOM COMMITTEE > > Resolution on Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights > > The Coordinating Committee of Press Freedom Organizations, meeting > in Belgrade June 18, 2008, hailed forthcoming United Nations > commemorations of the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration > of Human Rights and called upon UN bodies and their member states to > act to implement their pledge of freedom of expression and of press > freedom, as contained in the Declaration's Article 19: > > "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; > this right includes freedom to hold opinions without > interference and to seek, receive and impart information and > ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers." > > While means of enforcement were not provided for when the UN voted > that text on Dec. 10, 1948, it has been widely recognized by the > world's most prestigious national and international courts as now > constituting international customary law. It was a pledge by the > international community to enshrine free speech and a free press > among the fundamental rights for everyone everywhere. > > Article 19 has stood the test of time. The text was prescient. There > is nothing to add and nothing to subtract. Its provision of the free > flow of "information and ideas through any media and regardless of > frontiers" made it possible to move from a world in which short wave > radio was the main transfrontier news outlet to one that encompasses > all later developments in communications technology, including > direct satellite broadcasting and the Internet. > > Contrary to some later assertions, it was not produced solely by > Western countries but by a globally representative group of > countries. The Drafting Committee that wrote it comprised Australia, > Chile, China, France, Lebanon, Soviet Union, United Kingdom, and > United States, represented by Eleanor Roosevelt, who chaired the > Committee. It was adopted without dissent by the UN General Assembly. > > The only problem with Article 19 is that it is not respected nor > implemented everywhere. The time is long past for the United Nations > to move to make it so. Those countries that ignore their commitments > to respect freedom of expression and freedom of the press should be > enjoined to do so. > > Failure to honor those commitments should be treated as a serious > breach and should be sanctioned by such measures as exclusion from > UN human rights bodies. The UN system should reinforce its aid to > the development of independent news outlets everywhere. > > We members of the Coordinating Committee of Press Freedom > Organizations, representing journalists and news outlets throughout > the world, call upon the United Nations and its agencies to move now > from their promise of global press freedom to adopt measures for > implementation needed to transform that promise into practice. > > > > ************** > Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient > used cars. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From KovenRonald at aol.com Wed Jul 2 12:05:46 2008 From: KovenRonald at aol.com (KovenRonald at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:05:46 EDT Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) Message-ID: Yes, Avri -- Reaffirming Art., 29 was the price that our Chinese friends and other likeminded delegations made us pay for reaffirming Art. 19. That's what we get for working thru the UN system and illustrates what to expect if we try to fiddle too much with the ICANN arrangements to which so many civil society members are allergic. Better the devil you know ... Best regards, Rony Koven ************** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 2 15:44:58 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:44:58 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) Message-ID: <13808534.1215027899209.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Avri and all, Thank you for the reminder re artical 29 and 19. I know our members have been refrencing it for years vis a vi ICANN. We wonder quite frankly, when ICANN will fully recognize in particular article 29? Perhaps you could or would be so kind as to enlighten us in this regard? -----Original Message----- >From: Avri Doria >Sent: Jul 2, 2008 8:58 AM >To: Governance Caucus >Subject: Re: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) > >Hi, > >Perhaps there isn't anything to subtract from article 19 other then >the effects of article 29? i sometimes worry that people are so >focused on the positive value of 19 that they miss the fact that 29 >allows a lot of abrogation of that positiveness. > >Unfortunately article 29 made into the WSIS texts as well. > >a. > >For anyone who does not remember 29 - the get out of FOE free article: > >Article 29. > > (1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the >free and full development of his personality is possible. > > (2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall >be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely >for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights >and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of >morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society. > > (3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised >contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations. > > >On 2 Jul 2008, at 17:30, KovenRonald at aol.com wrote: > >> Dear All -- >> >> On the question of freedom of expression and the Internet, the >> position of the press freedom groups of the Coordinating Committee >> of Press Freedom Organizations, to which the World Press Freedom >> Committee belongs, has been the same as that taken by leading >> delegations such as that of Canada and others in the WSIS, that >> there should be "no new rights" but that there is a need for >> reaffirmation of existing rights, notably Article 19 of the >> Universal Declaration of Human Rights. >> >> In this 60th anniversary year of the UDHR, the Coordinating >> Committee adopted a resolution just last month in Belgrade that >> there is nothing to add or to subtract from Art. 19 and that it is >> time to work for its full implenentation in the world. I append the >> text below. >> >> While I understand the desire to explore other aspects of Internet >> access, I strongly feel that, when it comes to freedom of >> expression, any attempts to "improve" on Art. 19 in an >> intergovernmental context will only lead to watering down its >> unqualified call for free speech, on and off-line. >> >> It was a major struggle to get Art. 19 into the final WSIS texts, a >> struggle in which pretty much all of the civil society groups took >> part cooperatively. Nothing being proposed here should now come to >> undermine the notable success of that effort. >> >> We are prepared to reiterate the above points in Hyderabad. >> >> Best regards, >> Ronald Koven >> European Representative >> World Press Freedom Committee >> >> COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS >> INTER AMERICAN PRESS ASSOCIATION >> INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BROADCASTING >> INTERNATIONAL PRESS INSTITUTE >> WORLD ASSOCIATION OF NEWSPAPERS >> WORLD PRESS FREEDOM COMMITTEE >> >> Resolution on Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights >> >> The Coordinating Committee of Press Freedom Organizations, meeting >> in Belgrade June 18, 2008, hailed forthcoming United Nations >> commemorations of the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration >> of Human Rights and called upon UN bodies and their member states to >> act to implement their pledge of freedom of expression and of press >> freedom, as contained in the Declaration's Article 19: >> >> "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; >> this right includes freedom to hold opinions without >> interference and to seek, receive and impart information and >> ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers." >> >> While means of enforcement were not provided for when the UN voted >> that text on Dec. 10, 1948, it has been widely recognized by the >> world's most prestigious national and international courts as now >> constituting international customary law. It was a pledge by the >> international community to enshrine free speech and a free press >> among the fundamental rights for everyone everywhere. >> >> Article 19 has stood the test of time. The text was prescient. There >> is nothing to add and nothing to subtract. Its provision of the free >> flow of "information and ideas through any media and regardless of >> frontiers" made it possible to move from a world in which short wave >> radio was the main transfrontier news outlet to one that encompasses >> all later developments in communications technology, including >> direct satellite broadcasting and the Internet. >> >> Contrary to some later assertions, it was not produced solely by >> Western countries but by a globally representative group of >> countries. The Drafting Committee that wrote it comprised Australia, >> Chile, China, France, Lebanon, Soviet Union, United Kingdom, and >> United States, represented by Eleanor Roosevelt, who chaired the >> Committee. It was adopted without dissent by the UN General Assembly. >> >> The only problem with Article 19 is that it is not respected nor >> implemented everywhere. The time is long past for the United Nations >> to move to make it so. Those countries that ignore their commitments >> to respect freedom of expression and freedom of the press should be >> enjoined to do so. >> >> Failure to honor those commitments should be treated as a serious >> breach and should be sanctioned by such measures as exclusion from >> UN human rights bodies. The UN system should reinforce its aid to >> the development of independent news outlets everywhere. >> >> We members of the Coordinating Committee of Press Freedom >> Organizations, representing journalists and news outlets throughout >> the world, call upon the United Nations and its agencies to move now >> from their promise of global press freedom to adopt measures for >> implementation needed to transform that promise into practice. >> >> >> >> ************** >> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient >> used cars. >> (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org >To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 03:22:26 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 00:22:26 -0700 Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00a701c8dcdd$92aca410$08fea8c0@michael78xnoln> Ron, I'll confess to not being very well versed in the intricacies of "rights" discussions/negotiations... However, the issue being presented through this workshop is not related to "expression" (FoE) as would normally, I think be understood but rather would have to do with the role that the Internet plays as an enabler of information management/manipulation/distribution at a distance including in service delivery, transaction management and processing, digitally enabled action/control at a distance and so on. I think it is a major stretch to consider these uses of the Internet as a form of "expression" but it is precisely these which make the Internet so valuable as a means for wealth creation and not incidentally for social and economic development. The notion of a Right to the Internet or Internet for All refers I think to issues which have to do with the Internet as a primary means for production and distribution in the Information Economy/Society (and ensuring some degree of inclusive access and opportunity for use of the Internet for these purposes) and not simply as a means for communication/expression. MG -----Original Message----- From: KovenRonald at aol.com [mailto:KovenRonald at aol.com] Sent: July 2, 2008 8:31 AM To: gurstein at gmail.com; governance at lists.cpsr.org Cc: karenb at gn.apc.org; Embench at aol.com Subject: Re: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) Dear All -- On the question of freedom of expression and the Internet, the position of the press freedom groups of the Coordinating Committee of Press Freedom Organizations, to which the World Press Freedom Committee belongs, has been the same as that taken by leading delegations such as that of Canada and others in the WSIS, that there should be "no new rights" but that there is a need for reaffirmation of existing rights, notably Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. In this 60th anniversary year of the UDHR, the Coordinating Committee adopted a resolution just last month in Belgrade that there is nothing to add or to subtract from Art. 19 and that it is time to work for its full implenentation in the world. I append the text below. While I understand the desire to explore other aspects of Internet access, I strongly feel that, when it comes to freedom of expression, any attempts to "improve" on Art. 19 in an intergovernmental context will only lead to watering down its unqualified call for free speech, on and off-line. It was a major struggle to get Art. 19 into the final WSIS texts, a struggle in which pretty much all of the civil society groups took part cooperatively. Nothing being proposed here should now come to undermine the notable success of that effort. We are prepared to reiterate the above points in Hyderabad. Best regards, Ronald Koven European Representative World Press Freedom Committee COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS INTER AMERICAN PRESS ASSOCIATION INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BROADCASTING INTERNATIONAL PRESS INSTITUTE WORLD ASSOCIATION OF NEWSPAPERS WORLD PRESS FREEDOM COMMITTEE Resolution on Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights The Coordinating Committee of Press Freedom Organizations, meeting in Belgrade June 18, 2008, hailed forthcoming United Nations commemorations of the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and called upon UN bodies and their member states to act to implement their pledge of freedom of expression and of press freedom, as contained in the Declaration's Article 19: "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers." While means of enforcement were not provided for when the UN voted that text on Dec. 10, 1948, it has been widely recognized by the world's most prestigious national and international courts as now constituting international customary law. It was a pledge by the international community to enshrine free speech and a free press among the fundamental rights for everyone everywhere. Article 19 has stood the test of time. The text was prescient. There is nothing to add and nothing to subtract. Its provision of the free flow of "information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers" made it possible to move from a world in which short wave radio was the main transfrontier news outlet to one that encompasses all later developments in communications technology, including direct satellite broadcasting and the Internet. Contrary to some later assertions, it was not produced solely by Western countries but by a globally representative group of countries. The Drafting Committee that wrote it comprised Australia, Chile, China, France, Lebanon, Soviet Union, United Kingdom, and United States, represented by Eleanor Roosevelt, who chaired the Committee. It was adopted without dissent by the UN General Assembly. The only problem with Article 19 is that it is not respected nor implemented everywhere. The time is long past for the United Nations to move to make it so. Those countries that ignore their commitments to respect freedom of expression and freedom of the press should be enjoined to do so. Failure to honor those commitments should be treated as a serious breach and should be sanctioned by such measures as exclusion from UN human rights bodies. The UN system should reinforce its aid to the development of independent news outlets everywhere. We members of the Coordinating Committee of Press Freedom Organizations, representing journalists and news outlets throughout the world, call upon the United Nations and its agencies to move now from their promise of global press freedom to adopt measures for implementation needed to transform that promise into practice. ************** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From mueller at syr.edu Thu Jul 3 04:14:19 2008 From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 04:14:19 -0400 Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901E0DC3B@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> From: KovenRonald at aol.com [mailto:KovenRonald at aol.com] Yes, Avri -- Reaffirming Art., 29 was the price that our Chinese friends and other likeminded delegations made us pay for reaffirming Art. 19. That's what we get for working thru the UN system and illustrates what to expect if we try to fiddle too much with the ICANN arrangements to which so many civil society members are allergic. Better the devil you know ... But Rony, in case you hadn't noticed, ICANN has NEITHER Article 19 NOR Article 29 NOR the US First Amendment. And ICANN has just passed (again, you must not be paying attention) a new gTLD policy that reflects exactly what your Chinese friends wanted, not to mention European advocates of other kinds of restrictions on expression. I will send you the links if you are interested (but I suspect you are not). Do you like the idea of prior restraint for ALL expression in domain names? Do you like the idea that a government can object to a name because it is in a language script that they think they own and they want a veto power over anyone using {Chinese/Korean/Cyrillic/your favorite language here}? Do you like the idea of global standards of "public order and morality" being applied in advance to any and all applications? I hope you do, because that is all part of the new ICANN policy. So before you invoke ICANN pay attention to the facts, please. I really wonder what you WPFC folks are thinking some times. Does the fact that ICANN has a "made in the USA" sticker on it mean that you will defend it to the death regardless of what it does? There are no allergies here to ICANN per se or to its model, there are allergies to censorship, arbitrary power and the like. Anyway, getting back to Internet for All, it is meaningless to declare sweeping new "rights" when the "right" in question is just a nice-sounding set of words and one has neither the resources nor c clear definition of what it means in practice, nor the political consensus and institutional capacity to deliver it on a global basis. We should rather be asking, "what policies have actually succeeded in expanding Internet access as rapidly as possible and "what policies do the best job of ameliorating unacceptable levels of inequality in access?" Those are realistic questions that can be answered with realistic and implementable policies. Declaring universal rights makes the declarer feel righteous but accomplishes nothing else, except perhaps to devalue the more fundamental rights that are still not being protected. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From KovenRonald at aol.com Thu Jul 3 05:19:22 2008 From: KovenRonald at aol.com (KovenRonald at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 05:19:22 EDT Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) Message-ID: Dear Milton -- I have absolutely no problem with discussions of the facts. I welcome them. I do object to your ad hominem tone and to your unfounded assumptions and polemical sarcasms about what I do or don't think. May I suggest that in future you edit your remarks to remove the personal asides and insinuations. Intellectual rigor would give your arguments far more force. Best regards, Rony Koven ************** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Thu Jul 3 07:50:16 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:20:16 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080703115024.77484A6C79@smtp2.electricembers.net> Dear All, I have been able to get an extension, and we have 2 more days to discuss this proposal. I am enclosing the draft once again. Pl do indicate your comments and inputs. This proposal was prepared by a working group of the IGC. It is being supported by the Bill-of-Rights Dynamic Coalition. We are also exploring other co-sponsors and at least one UN organization has expressed interest. One developing country government has also given informal consent to cosponsor which will be confirmed in a few days. Parminder Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach" Internet for All is the proposed theme for the IGF, Hyderabad and is adapted from UNESCO's 'Education for All' initiative. 'Education for All' takes a rights based approach to education and presents nuanced view the enabling conditions for providing education for all ( http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=47044&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&UR L_SECTION=201.html ) . The proposed "Internet for All-Exploring a Rights-based Approach" workshop will explore what a 'Rights-based' approach to Internet for All (including other related concepts such as e-Inclusion and 'Universal Service') would mean and whether it could provide the basis for Internet policy in this area. Universal service and universal access are widely accepted telecom policy principles. However, these are less clear in area of the Internet where the Internet involves areas of much more active 'use' and multi-layered types of interaction and development than the simple connection' with the telephone. To mention only one aspect of this a draft resolution recommended for ECOSOC by the 11th session of the CSTD http://www.unctad.org/sections/wcmu/docs//ecn162008_r004_en.pdf recently noted that 'a new form of digital divide is emerging in terms of difference in quality and speed of access to ICTs' (the OECD has also been grappling with definitional issues regarding universal access in terms of the Internet http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/57/40629067.pdf ). Other issues to be explored from a 'rights' perspective include a determination of the enabling conditions for realizing effective use of the available 'access' and the characteristics of the Internet to which one has access. A rights based approach to "Internet for All' or what may be referred to as a 'right to the Internet' may include issues that go beyond mere access as for example the enabling conditions such as training, capacity building and the development of the social, organizational, and managerial infrastructure that can make access meaningful and useful. The "Education for All' movement recognizes that conditions such as these are pertinent to ensuring education for all beyond simple access to schools. This corresponds to quality and appropriateness of the substantive content and presentation of the Internet - language including use of non-Roman scripts are of particular significance here and correspond in the 'education for all' context to what is spoken of in a recent UNESCO document as 'the right to learn in the mother tongue' ( http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001297/129728e.pdf). The WSIS declaration of Principles speaks of an "information society where everyone can create, access, utilize and share information". Does this translate into a right to do so? What would be the implications of a right on Internet policies, for instance with respect to the network neutrality debate. Similarly, issues such as online security, privacy and FoE may be possible to explore from a rights perspective in the context of the possible significance in enabling or restricting an 'Internet for all'. A further set of issues more directly linked to an e-Inclusion definition of 'Internet for all' would include groups needing special consideration such as people with disabilities, whose right to access to 'new information and communications technologies and systems, including the Internet' as is recognized by the recently concluded 'International Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities'. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Thu Jul 3 10:23:12 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:53:12 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) In-Reply-To: <20080703115024.77484A6C79@smtp2.electricembers.net> References: <20080703115024.77484A6C79@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: Hello All, Comments inserted with #symbol Sivasubramanian Muthusamy ISOC India Chennai. On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Parminder wrote: > > Dear All, > > I have been able to get an extension, and we have 2 more days to discuss > this proposal. I am enclosing the draft once again. Pl do indicate your > comments and inputs. > > > This proposal was prepared by a working group of the IGC. It is being > supported by the Bill-of-Rights Dynamic Coalition. We are also exploring > other co-sponsors and at least one UN organization has expressed interest. > One developing country government has also given informal consent to > cosponsor which will be confirmed in a few days. > > Parminder > > Internet for All – Exploring a Rights-based Approach" > > Internet for All is the proposed theme for the IGF, Hyderabad and is adapted > from UNESCO's 'Education for All' initiative. 'Education for All' takes a > rights based approach to education and presents nuanced view the enabling > conditions for providing education for all > ( http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=47044&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html > ) . The proposed "Internet for All—Exploring a Rights-based Approach" > workshop will explore what a 'Rights-based' approach to Internet for All > (including other related concepts such as e-Inclusion and 'Universal > Service') would mean and whether it could provide the basis for Internet > policy in this area. #( The reference to UNESCO's Education for All could be somewhere down below in the body of the proposal, more as a passing reference. Too much emphasis placed on it by talking about it at length that it sounds more like UNESCO's Education for All is rephrased into Internet for All ) > > Universal service and universal access are widely accepted telecom policy > principles. However, these are less clear in area of the Internet where the > Internet involves areas of much more active 'use' and multi-layered types of > interaction and development than the simple connection' with the telephone. > To mention only one aspect of this a draft resolution recommended for ECOSOC > by the 11th session of the CSTD > http://www.unctad.org/sections/wcmu/docs//ecn162008_r004_en.pdf recently > noted that 'a new form of digital divide is emerging in terms of difference > in quality and speed of access to ICTs' (the OECD has also been grappling > with definitional issues regarding universal access in terms of the Internet > http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/57/40629067.pdf ). > > Other issues to be explored from a 'rights' perspective include a > determination of the enabling conditions for realizing effective use of the > available 'access' and the characteristics of the Internet to which one has > access. A rights based approach to "Internet for All' or what may be > referred to as a 'right to the Internet' may include issues that go beyond > mere access as for example the enabling conditions such as training, > capacity building and the development of the social, organizational, and > managerial infrastructure that can make access meaningful and useful. The > "Education for All' movement recognizes that conditions such as these are > pertinent to ensuring education for all beyond simple access to schools. # (The topic Internet for all has the core focus on 1) Right of Access to Internet for All and as expanded components 2) Enabling Effective Use of the Internet. The declaration proposes to emphasize under 2) a) Capacity Building b) Training c) social infrastructure d) organizational infrastructure e) management infrastructure etc which may be presented in a more coherent and easy to discuss and act upon manner as separate passages, grouped and numbered.) > > This corresponds to quality and appropriateness of the substantive content > and presentation of the Internet – language including use of non-Roman > scripts are of particular significance here and correspond in the 'education > for all' context to what is spoken of in a recent UNESCO document as 'the > right to learn in the mother tongue' > (http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001297/129728e.pdf). ( Here some more "components" of the proposal are outlined, namely content and language. Under content, what is proposed here? It is not clear. Are we talking about the right to create content free of censorship ? May be stated explicitly. On language, what is the stand taken by the Caucus ? Is it that multiple languages are enabled ? Are there any pre-conditions such as " Multiple languages are to be enabled without compromising on the universality of the internet ? " ) > > The WSIS declaration of Principles speaks of an "information society where > everyone can create, access, utilize and share information". Does this > translate into a right to do so? What would be the implications of a right > on Internet policies, for instance with respect to the network neutrality > debate. Similarly, issues such as online security, privacy and FoE may be > possible to explore from a rights perspective in the context of the possible > significance in enabling or restricting an 'Internet for all'. #(The UN has a certain format for draft resolutions. It is organized into various sections, introductory, reference, proposal and call for action sections - broadly spaking. This draft could be better organized into such sections. There are references to UNESCO's Education for All, WSIS declaration of Principles, UNESCO's documentation on the Right to learn one's mother tongue etc. which could form part of the reference sections to ask the policy makers / audience to recall. The proposal needs to spelt out with greater clarity and as mentioned earlier, grouped and numbered for ease of comments, debates and decisions. #The proposal talks about the Digitial Divide, Network Neutrality, Security and Privacy which are significant aspects that the deabate should pay attention to. What is the position of the Caucus on all these aspects ? These aspects need to mentioned more prominently) > > A further set of issues more directly linked to an e-Inclusion definition of > 'Internet for all' would include groups needing special consideration such > as people with disabilities, whose right to access to 'new information and > communications technologies and systems, including the Internet' as is > recognized by the recently concluded 'International Convention on the Rights > of Persons with Disabilities'. > # In the topic headline "Internet for All—Exploring a Rights-based Approach", 'Exploring a Rights based Apporach' could be reworded or altogether dropped. > > > ________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From lisa at global-partners.co.uk Fri Jul 4 05:44:33 2008 From: lisa at global-partners.co.uk (Lisa Horner) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:44:33 +0100 Subject: [governance] UK IGF Message-ID: <43E4CB4D84F7434DB4539B0744B009A00C76D1@DATASRV.GLOBAL.local> For any UK colleagues on this list, there's a UK IGF meeting being held in London on 11th July. The aims are to formulate a UK perspective to take to the IGF in December. Email Laura.Hutchison at nominet.org.uk for more info. Thanks, Lisa ___________________________________________________________ Lisa Horner Head of Research and Policy Unit Global Partners and Associates 4th Floor Holborn Gate, 26 Southampton Buildings, London, WC2A 1AH Office: + 44 207 861 3960 Mobile: +44 7867 795859 lisa at global-partners.co.uk www.global-partners.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Sun Jul 6 01:27:37 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 10:57:37 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) In-Reply-To: <20080703115024.77484A6C79@smtp2.electricembers.net> References: <20080703115024.77484A6C79@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: Hello All I came across this news item about Amnesty's possible participation to emphasize human rights on the Internet as at the IGF, Hyderabad http://www.internet20.org/entry/amnesty-decries-possible-curbs-on-internet-says-time-for-bloggers-to-stand-up-for-their-rights/ Why not write to Amnesty (if they are amenable to the ideas of the IG Caucus) and various prominent groups, apart from working through Dyanamic Coaltion Team Leaders ? The IG Caucus needs to come up with something like a "Declaration of Rights to the Internet and Rights on the Internet" and have it voted in, adopted by the participants in a main session. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy ISOC India Chennai http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Parminder wrote: > We are also exploring other co-sponsors and at least one UN organization > has expressed interest. One developing country government has also given > informal consent to cosponsor which will be confirmed in a few days. > > > Parminder > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sun Jul 6 13:26:05 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 22:56:05 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080706172838.8B54CA6C16@smtp2.electricembers.net> Hi All I will submit the revised workshop proposal 'Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Perspective" as submitted to this list by by Karen/ Michael, tomorrow to the IGF secretariat. Before doing so I will discuss the changes proposed by Sivasubramanian offline with him, along with other working group members. Thanks. Parminder _____ From: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy [mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 10:58 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Parminder Subject: Re: [governance] IGF workshop: Internet for All (v 2.0) Hello All I came across this news item about Amnesty's possible participation to emphasize human rights on the Internet as at the IGF, Hyderabad http://www.internet20.org/entry/amnesty-decries-possible-curbs-on-internet-s ays-time-for-bloggers-to-stand-up-for-their-rights/ Why not write to Amnesty (if they are amenable to the ideas of the IG Caucus) and various prominent groups, apart from working through Dyanamic Coaltion Team Leaders ? The IG Caucus needs to come up with something like a "Declaration of Rights to the Internet and Rights on the Internet" and have it voted in, adopted by the participants in a main session. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy ISOC India Chennai http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Parminder wrote: We are also exploring other co-sponsors and at least one UN organization has expressed interest. One developing country government has also given informal consent to cosponsor which will be confirmed in a few days. Parminder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From mueller at syr.edu Mon Jul 7 07:11:59 2008 From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 07:11:59 -0400 Subject: [governance] ISP liability - a critical IG issue Message-ID: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> Excerpt from a news article: The European Parliament is continuing down a repressive path as it prepares a series of amendments for its Telecoms Package. As yet there seems to be little awareness by Europe's citizens over what is being planned. Essentially, a legislative path is being plotted which will make ISPs liable for the activities of those using their networks and, having done that, will enable multinational corporations to mount mass law-suits against alleged copyright infringers in Europe. By being liable for their own users' activities, ISPs will be obliged to hand over data about subscribers when law enforcement agencies or even corporations, demand them. At least this is the long-term plan. Amongst the scores of tiny, innocent-looking law changes being proposed to lay the legal groundwork for this new legal offensive, is an attempt to end the legal immunity granted ISPs over the content being carried across their networks. In Europe this immunity flows from the so-called 'mere conduit' status granted ISPs - similar in many ways to the 'common carrier' status which defines the rights and obligations of US carriers. There are many reasons to have 'mere conduit' protected. Mostly, it is important to ensure the free flow of information without those owning the network being able to dig in and block some users and promote others. The basic concept that every citizen must have free access to information is enshrined in basic European principles, so the ending or blunting of 'mere conduit' status will seriously erode that basic safeguard. Once all the paving measures and sneaky preparations are in place, national governments will be free to go along with the repressive measures advocated by the copyright lobby - up to and including what is essentially privatised justice, where a big content owner (or alliances of content owners) will be able to mount a mass law suit against alleged copyright infringers on the Internet. Important votes on various telecom package amendments are expected through July -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Mon Jul 7 07:50:19 2008 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 12:50:19 +0100 Subject: [governance] ISP liability - a critical IG issue In-Reply-To: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> References: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: In message <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142 at SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu>, at 07:11:59 on Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Milton L Mueller writes >The European Parliament is continuing down a repressive path Seems a little harsh as it's the Parliament that's usually more liberal than the Commission and Council. >as it prepares a series of amendments for its Telecoms Package. As yet >there seems to be little awareness by Europe's citizens over what is >being planned As you know (and as described in the news item you quoted [from where?]) the ISP immunity is enshrined in the ECommerce Directive. Having spent a lot of time getting that Directive through the system eight years ago, I have a significant interest in any measures in the current proposed revised Telecoms Framework directives that might attempt to water it down. You are correct that there's "little awareness" of this happening at the moment, although we know a review of the Ecommerce Directive itself will happen maybe next year. Therefore I'd be grateful for any specific information you have on which individual [Telecoms Framework] amendments are attempting to do this (as apart from anything else, it's the wrong Directive to be meddling in such things). -- Roland Perry ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de Mon Jul 7 11:50:10 2008 From: bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Ralf Bendrath) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:50:10 +0200 Subject: [governance] ISP liability - a critical IG issue In-Reply-To: References: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <48723B32.8000803@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Roland Perry schrieb: > In message > <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142 at SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu>, at > 07:11:59 on Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Milton L Mueller writes >> as it prepares a series of amendments for its Telecoms Package. The vote on the amendments in the industry and trade committee European Parliament is *today*. Plenary first reading will be on 2nd September. >> As yet there seems to be little awareness by Europe's citizens over >> what is being planned That's also because the changes were introduced in stealth mode and last minute. But the mainstream media are waking up now (maybe a little too late): > Therefore I'd be grateful for any specific information you have on > which individual [Telecoms Framework] amendments are attempting to do > this (as apart from anything else, it's the wrong Directive to be > meddling in such things). All relevant infos and documents as well as civil society campaign material are here: More from the Open Rights Group: A good paper on the lobbying background of the amendments: A good (and fun) narrative of the story unfolding: A machinima campaign video: Let me know if you need more. ;-) Ralf ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Mon Jul 7 12:22:59 2008 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 17:22:59 +0100 Subject: [governance] ISP liability - a critical IG issue In-Reply-To: <48723B32.8000803@zedat.fu-berlin.de> References: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <48723B32.8000803@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Message-ID: In message <48723B32.8000803 at zedat.fu-berlin.de>, at 17:50:10 on Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Ralf Bendrath writes >The vote on the amendments in the industry and trade committee European >Parliament is *today*. So we should know the result soon! >Plenary first reading will be on 2nd September. >>> As yet there seems to be little awareness by Europe's citizens over >>> what is being planned >All relevant infos and documents as well as civil society campaign >material are here: > > >More from the Open Rights Group: >3-strikes-through-the-backdoor/> > >A good paper on the lobbying background of the amendments: >rten..28.june.2008.v5.pdf> > >A good (and fun) narrative of the story unfolding: >confused.html> And I've found this summary of the amendments as well: I'm seeing Malcolm Harbour on Friday, as it happens. Too late to influence today's vote, but at least I may be able to find out what the next step is going to be. -- Roland Perry ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Mon Jul 7 19:23:12 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 04:53:12 +0530 Subject: [governance] arc Message-ID: <20080707232336.B123D68D3B@smtp1.electricembers.net> Hi gopa Just to log in time :-). I am at it, and will finish it today. Param -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Mon Jul 7 19:25:15 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 04:55:15 +0530 Subject: [governance] pl ignore misposting Message-ID: <20080707232530.9ADE168D63@smtp1.electricembers.net> Sorry, list. Mis-posting. Sincere apologies. Parminder _____ From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 4:53 AM To: 'governance at lists.cpsr.org' Subject: arc Hi gopa Just to log in time :-). I am at it, and will finish it today. Param -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From dan.oppermann at gmail.com Tue Jul 8 08:28:03 2008 From: dan.oppermann at gmail.com (Daniel Oppermann) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:28:03 -0300 Subject: [governance] ISP liability - a critical IG issue In-Reply-To: References: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <48723B32.8000803@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Message-ID: <48735D53.2000100@googlemail.com> update: _MEPs back contested telecoms plan_ European politicians have voted in favour of amendments to telecoms law which campaigners say could be used to curb privacy online and file-sharing. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7495085.stm Roland Perry schrieb: > In message <48723B32.8000803 at zedat.fu-berlin.de>, at 17:50:10 on Mon, 7 > Jul 2008, Ralf Bendrath writes > > >> The vote on the amendments in the industry and trade committee European >> Parliament is *today*. >> > > So we should know the result soon! > > >> Plenary first reading will be on 2nd September. >> > > >>>> As yet there seems to be little awareness by Europe's citizens over >>>> what is being planned >>>> > > >> All relevant infos and documents as well as civil society campaign >> material are here: >> >> >> More from the Open Rights Group: >> > 3-strikes-through-the-backdoor/> >> >> A good paper on the lobbying background of the amendments: >> > rten..28.june.2008.v5.pdf> >> >> A good (and fun) narrative of the story unfolding: >> > confused.html> >> > > And I've found this summary of the amendments as well: > > Amendments_ITRE-IMCO_7th-July> > > I'm seeing Malcolm Harbour on Friday, as it happens. Too late to > influence today's vote, but at least I may be able to find out what the > next step is going to be. > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From avri at psg.com Tue Jul 8 08:57:42 2008 From: avri at psg.com (Avri Doria) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:57:42 +0100 Subject: [governance] ISP liability - a critical IG issue In-Reply-To: <48735D53.2000100@googlemail.com> References: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <48723B32.8000803@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <48735D53.2000100@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <592384C1-2AE1-48B4-989B-9531BAB3B666@psg.com> Hi, to anyone who is familiar with these plans - how do they deal with people using encrypted links? i know Sweden has been working on its rules about monitoring all traffic that crosses in or out of its borders, but I also could not tell if they made any claims on encrypted traffic. a. On 8 Jul 2008, at 13:28, Daniel Oppermann wrote: > update: > > > _MEPs back contested telecoms plan_ > > European politicians have voted in favour of amendments to telecoms > law which campaigners say could be used to curb privacy online and > file-sharing. > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7495085.stm > > > > > > > Roland Perry schrieb: >> In message <48723B32.8000803 at zedat.fu-berlin.de>, at 17:50:10 on >> Mon, 7 >> Jul 2008, Ralf Bendrath writes >> >> >>> The vote on the amendments in the industry and trade committee >>> European >>> Parliament is *today*. >>> >> >> So we should know the result soon! >> >> >>> Plenary first reading will be on 2nd September. >>> >> >> >>>>> As yet there seems to be little awareness by Europe's citizens >>>>> over >>>>> what is being planned >>>>> >> >> >>> All relevant infos and documents as well as civil society campaign >>> material are here: >>> >>> >>> More from the Open Rights Group: >>> >> 3-strikes-through-the-backdoor/> >>> >>> A good paper on the lobbying background of the amendments: >>> >> rten..28.june.2008.v5.pdf> >>> >>> A good (and fun) narrative of the story unfolding: >>> >> confused.html> >>> >> >> And I've found this summary of the amendments as well: >> >> > Amendments_ITRE-IMCO_7th-July> >> >> I'm seeing Malcolm Harbour on Friday, as it happens. Too late to >> influence today's vote, but at least I may be able to find out what >> the >> next step is going to be. >> > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Tue Jul 8 08:58:00 2008 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:58:00 +0100 Subject: [governance] ISP liability - a critical IG issue In-Reply-To: <48735D53.2000100@googlemail.com> References: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <48723B32.8000803@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <48735D53.2000100@googlemail.com> Message-ID: In message <48735D53.2000100 at googlemail.com>, at 09:28:03 on Tue, 8 Jul 2008, Daniel Oppermann writes >European politicians have voted in favour of amendments to telecoms law >which campaigners say could be used to curb privacy online and >file-sharing. > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7495085.stm Frankly, there's such a big disconnect between the various claims here that we should take a step back and wait for the dust to settle. How can the same measure be intended to enhance emergency service access to caller location data *and* also implement a "three strikes" rule? All I can guess at this stage (understandably I haven't had time to read all the 1000+ individual amendments, nor do I yet know which ones passed and which didn't) is that being able to locate mobile Internet users makes it easier to send them a "cease and desist" letter (assuming the private sector gets access to the same data as the emergency services)? Or have I got the wrong end of the wrong stick? -- Roland Perry ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com Tue Jul 8 11:24:47 2008 From: ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com (linda misek-falkoff) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:24:47 -0400 Subject: [governance] ISP liability - a critical IG issue In-Reply-To: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> References: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <45ed74050807080824o4e0fa24es560a0274c2496fdd@mail.gmail.com> Hi Milton and All Colleagues, copied to 2 groups very much interested in sustaining connections (both as adjective plus noun, and verb plus noun).: This spicy account is much appreciated, thank you for monitoring and memorializations. It did seem when ARPANet forward one took an *attempted* (necessarily meagre and partial) long look toward an Internet future post NSF stewardship - that business plan(s) wise and wary would put in place a substantial period of marketing (in fact some intermediate Net purveyors did use that term); one question is what access and various precieved ingratiating freedoms (and rights and responsibilities) would be sustained after the appetites grew into hungers. Again, appreciate much your symmetrization (I say spicy because of the flair in some of the wording, etc., themselves for which thanks - not bland, not meek. Thank also to successor posts and all the interesting links and catch-up knowledge. Warm regards, LDMF. Dr. Linda D. Misek-Falkoff *Respectful Interfaces* For I.D.: Communications Coordination Committee for the U.N. CONGO education committee National Disability Party International Disability Caucus Persons with Pain International WSIS, IGF, CFP onsite participant. 2007 Nominee: Global Alliance for ICT Strategy Council. 4+ decades on Internet and Prior Nets On 7/7/08, Milton L Mueller wrote: > > Excerpt from a news article: > The European Parliament is continuing down a repressive path as it prepares > a series of amendments for its Telecoms Package. As yet there seems to be > little awareness by Europe's citizens over what is being planned. > > Essentially, a legislative path is being plotted which will make ISPs > liable for the activities of those using their networks and, having done > that, will enable multinational corporations to mount mass law-suits against > alleged copyright infringers in Europe. By being liable for their own users' > activities, ISPs will be obliged to hand over data about subscribers when > law enforcement agencies or even corporations, demand them. At least this > is the long-term plan. > > Amongst the scores of tiny, innocent-looking law changes being proposed to > lay the legal groundwork for this new legal offensive, is an attempt to end > the legal immunity granted ISPs over the content being carried across their > networks. > > In Europe this immunity flows from the so-called 'mere conduit' status > granted ISPs - similar in many ways to the 'common carrier' status which > defines the rights and obligations of US carriers. > > There are many reasons to have 'mere conduit' protected. Mostly, it is > important to ensure the free flow of information without those owning the > network being able to dig in and block some users and promote others. The > basic concept that every citizen must have free access to information is > enshrined in basic European principles, so the ending or blunting of 'mere > conduit' status will seriously erode that basic safeguard. > > Once all the paving measures and sneaky preparations are in place, national > governments will be free to go along with the repressive measures advocated > by the copyright lobby - up to and including what is essentially privatised > justice, where a big content owner (or alliances of content owners) will be > able to mount a mass law suit against alleged copyright infringers on the > Internet. > > Important votes on various telecom package amendments are expected through > July > ____________________________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de Tue Jul 8 14:03:41 2008 From: bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Ralf Bendrath) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:03:41 +0200 Subject: [governance] ISP liability - a critical IG issue In-Reply-To: References: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <48723B32.8000803@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <48735D53.2000100@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <4873ABFD.4020003@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Roland Perry schrieb: >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7495085.stm > > Frankly, there's such a big disconnect between the various claims here > that we should take a step back and wait for the dust to settle. The consolidated text os not available yet, but according to some German-speaking news reports, my current impression is this: 1) the "three strikes you're out" amendment was not passed. 2) The formulation "lawful content" is still there, thus potentially enabling regulatory authorities to mandate filtering by ISPs. 3) Malcolm Harbour, the UK rapporteur who introduced these amendments, seems to peddle back after a storm of press enquiries and citizens' calls. He was reported to have deleted the contested word "protection" (of lawful content) from his amendments. An overview in German is here: Brief report from heise news UK: Below is a copy of a more comprehensive mail from La Quadrature du Net. > How can the same measure be intended to enhance emergency service access > to caller location data *and* also implement a "three strikes" rule? You assume that political compromise decisions that also are merged from different committees are coherent. This assumption is not (always) valid. ;-) Best, Ralf -------- Original-Nachricht -------- everything was voted in IMCO tonight. the whole report was voted by everyone but 2 MEPs mostly everybody (including PSE and greens, etc.) voted on every amendments. they couldn't know what they were voting for as the compromise amendments weren't public at the moment of the vote, so could not be matched with any analysis or voting list. the voting list might have been "vote everything, oppose every oral amendment." every oral amendement was rejected but one, removing "protection" in "promotion and protection of lawful content" in the mission of national regulation authority... quite nice but not very important compared to what was passed. the conservative vivendist group (harbour, mac carthy, and others) complained about being "spammed" by la quadrature (not citizens from every country, just Christophe and I apparently...), said it was defamatory, that they could sue us, that we were defending private interests (by opposition to BSA I suppose?) In the good points : - some MEP said it was good to be informed by citizens because we were right on kamal's trojan amendment for Trusted Computing, so LIBE committee will be asked a report (non binding and non blocking for the rest of the procedure) before end of september on those issues. - all but two shadow rapporteurs asked for postponing the plenary, and Harbour said he might see what he could do, without saying "yes", for a plenary in "september II" (which is I think 3rd week of september in non-technocratic talk) - the most positive things of all : all MEPs were panicking about those issues and votes. they didn't know what to vote and were asking to advice we couldn't give to them, because the whole process was voluntarily opacified, which is what we were complaining about... our mails and call really had a strong impact, that will last (if not increase!) up to the plenary. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Wed Jul 9 01:41:02 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 22:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Domain Warehousing Message-ID: ICANN Not Enforcing Rules Against Registrar Warehousing Because There Are No Rules July 6th, 2008 Art. ref.: http://www.thedomains.com/2008/07/06/icann-not-enforcing-rules-against-registrar-warehousing-because-there-are-no-rules/ - One of the leading domain attorneys we all know and love sent me an e-mail today about my Post the other day concerning Domain Registrars which warehouse expired domains of their customers instead of releasing them into a drop or auction. It seems that Paragraph 3.7.9 of the agreement between ICANN and the Regsitrars that we have been quoting to say: ”Registrars shall abide by any ICANN adopted specifications or policies prohibiting or restricting warehousing of or speculation in domain names by registrars.” Seems that ICANN never “adopted specifications or policies” in regards to registrars warehousing domains. Therefore although the contract talks about violating these policies, our attorney friend points out, there is no way to violate section 3.7.9 because, in the absence of any “specification or policy”, by ICANN, there is nothing to violate. ICANN has never passed any rule that says domain registrars cannot warehouse domains. All perfectly legal and in accordance with the rules. Registrars can maintain all their clients expired domains without ever releasing one. The language in the contract is useless without the passage of a separate rule by ICANN. Our attorney friend is also concerned that if ICANN acts its may hurt some of the large domainers who have set up their own registrars to protect there domains and want us to distinguish between retail registries and those domainer owners registries that do no retail business, such as Frank’s Domain Name Sales Corp. While I have no problem with having separate rules for retail and non-retail registrars, I think its doubtful that ICANN which has no rules at all, would go through the trouble of making separate rules for retail and non-retail registrars. It is essential that the domainer community get’s there comments posted on ICANN site before the deadline passes which again is August 4, 2008 Here is where you send your comments: raa-consultation at icann.org There is still less than 10 comments posted in opposition to this practice of registrar warehousing so maybe you guys just don’t care. However I get lots of comments here and see people bitching on the boards about that practice. So to be clear, bitching on the boards is not going to change a thing. and while I love when you guys comment here that isn’t going to change anything regarding ICANN either. Send off an e-mail, express your opinion on the issue. Do it today. --- -30-____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 8 04:23:13 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 01:23:13 -0700 Subject: [governance] ISP liability - a critical IG issue References: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD901884142@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <48723B32.8000803@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <48735D53.2000100@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <487323F1.D303D2FE@ix.netcom.com> Roland and all, Several amendments were argued today in the senate. Check C-Span for details. Roland Perry wrote: > In message <48735D53.2000100 at googlemail.com>, at 09:28:03 on Tue, 8 Jul > 2008, Daniel Oppermann writes > >European politicians have voted in favour of amendments to telecoms law > >which campaigners say could be used to curb privacy online and > >file-sharing. > > > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7495085.stm > > Frankly, there's such a big disconnect between the various claims here > that we should take a step back and wait for the dust to settle. > > How can the same measure be intended to enhance emergency service access > to caller location data *and* also implement a "three strikes" rule? > > All I can guess at this stage (understandably I haven't had time to read > all the 1000+ individual amendments, nor do I yet know which ones passed > and which didn't) is that being able to locate mobile Internet users > makes it easier to send them a "cease and desist" letter (assuming the > private sector gets access to the same data as the emergency services)? > Or have I got the wrong end of the wrong stick? > -- > Roland Perry > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Wed Jul 9 07:20:02 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:50:02 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGC membership list Message-ID: <20080709112010.C965EE2880@smtp3.electricembers.net> Dear List Participants, This is a reminder for responding to the email sent to you regarding preparing a members list for the IGC. Those who wish to be in the members list but have not yet responded may please respond to this email before 17th July. Please do indicate that you have read IGC's charter at http://www.igcaucus.org/IGC-charter_final-061014.html and are willing to subscribe to it and accept IGC's membership. Please also give your full name in your response email. Any further details like any affiliation etc are optional. Thanks Parminder PS: 1. It is preferred that you send your response to my ID and not to the list. 2. Please ignore this email if you have already responded to my earlier email on this issue. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Wed Jul 9 07:23:05 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:53:05 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGC's booth in IGF Village Message-ID: <20080709112314.B9CD468DB8@smtp1.electricembers.net> Dear all, I have requested the IGF secretariat to provisionally reserve a booth for IGC in the IGF village at the Hyderabad meeting. Members' advice on this matter is solicited. We could use the booth as civil society networking point at the IGF. Parminder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Wed Jul 9 19:00:41 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 04:30:41 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGC membership list In-Reply-To: <20080709112010.C965EE2880@smtp3.electricembers.net> References: <20080709112010.C965EE2880@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: Hello Parminder, I have read the IGC Charter, I accept and wish to continue as a member Thank you Sivasubramanian Muthusamy On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Parminder wrote: > > > > > Dear List Participants, > > > > > > This is a reminder for responding to the email sent to you regarding > preparing a members list for the IGC. > > > > Those who wish to be in the members list but have not yet responded may > please respond to this email before 17th July. > > > > Please do indicate that you have read IGC's charter at > http://www.igcaucus.org/IGC-charter_final-061014.html and are willing to > subscribe to it and accept IGC's membership. > > > > Please also give your full name in your response email. Any further details > like any affiliation etc are optional. > > > > Thanks > > > > Parminder > > > > PS: > > 1. It is preferred that you send your response to my ID and not to the > list. > 2. Please ignore this email if you have already responded to my earlier > email on this issue. > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Thu Jul 10 20:07:36 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:07:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Billion-dollar Domain Industry Message-ID: Billion-dollar Domain Industry July 8th, 2008 by Michael Lawrence http://www.domainpulse.com/2008/07/08/billion-dollar-domain-industry/ The latest ICANN plan to allow the global populace to assemble an entire domain name like www.yourname.yourname as their free-choice is a revolutionary and timely decision. This now open doors to cyber-brands such as my.ibm, hotel.chicago, it.jobs, play.poker, fly.usa or go.dell and applicants will submit a non-refundable fee of US$100 - 500 000 for each name idea and the businesses are already jumping to get started. A new study estimates that this new registration process would create US$33 billion in fees in the first three years. The prime beneficiaries will be ICANN, which operates as a not-for-profit organisation, but it still would have to deliver a highly structured, high speed service and meet global needs. Real beneficiaries Other big recipients will be the worldwide domain registrars and highly specialised experts and lawyers, while the cascading revenues will go to IT and web support organisations. The public at large will become the real beneficiaries as a billion new users will come online, millions of new interactive gateways will open and thousands of new global brands will emerge. This will make a global impact and bring a new face to the global e-commerce. The study also points out how in countries around the world, new national clubs of overnight billion-dollar domain name owners will emerge, all fueling the new global race. In contrast, for over a decade, and after toying with nickel-and-dime registration fees and fighting over domain names, this mature approach will alter the domain name perceptions for the global business community, as by and large, domain names have been the most grossly overlooked aspect of a name identity assumed to be only to be handled by junior programmers and web designers. The new registration process has built-in controls and gone will be the days when billion dollar businesses were on their hands and knees when some kid had their domain name squatted for a nickel and had the capability to pull the corporate strings. In those earlier days, at US$70 per domain name, up to a million names per day were being registered. The success was so huge that VeriSign ended up being sold for US$22 billion. Original article : http://www.bizcommunity.com/Article/196/16/26138.html --- -30- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Thu Jul 10 20:16:11 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] The billion-dollar domain babies Message-ID: The billion-dollar domain babies By: Naseem Javed Art. ref.: http://www.bizcommunity.com/Article/196/16/26138.html - The latest ICANN plan to allow the global populace to assemble an entire domain name like www.yourname.yourname as their free-choice is a revolutionary and timely decision. This now open doors to cyber-brands such as my.ibm, hotel.chicago, it.jobs, play.poker, fly.usa or go.dell and applicants will submit a non-refundable fee of US$100 - 500 000 for each name idea and the businesses are already jumping to get started. A new study estimates that this new registration process would create US$33 billion in fees in the first three years. The prime beneficiaries will be ICANN, which operates as a not-for-profit organisation, but it still would have to deliver a highly structured, high speed service and meet global needs. Real beneficiaries Other big recipients will be the worldwide domain registrars and highly specialised experts and lawyers, while the cascading revenues will go to IT and web support organisations. The public at large will become the real beneficiaries as a billion new users will come online, millions of new interactive gateways will open and thousands of new global brands will emerge. This will make a global impact and bring a new face to the global e-commerce. The study also points out how in countries around the world, new national clubs of overnight billion-dollar domain name owners will emerge, all fueling the new global race. In contrast, for over a decade, and after toying with nickel-and-dime registration fees and fighting over domain names, this mature approach will alter the domain name perceptions for the global business community, as by and large, domain names have been the most grossly overlooked aspect of a name identity assumed to be only to be handled by junior programmers and web designers. The new registration process has built-in controls and gone will be the days when billion dollar businesses were on their hands and knees when some kid had their domain name squatted for a nickel and had the capability to pull the corporate strings. In those earlier days, at US$70 per domain name, up to a million names per day were being registered. The success was so huge that VeriSign ended up being sold for US$22 billion. Catapult overnight This latest approach allows great ideas to catapult into overnight global-cyber-name-brands of extraordinary proportions, yet the game must be played fairly and with proper registration while accommodating all the trademark issues. However, the businesses will have to deploy smart and professional strategies with a commanding knowledge of global corporate nomenclature and cyber name identity ownership. The logo-design-driven methods of the previous century are rapidly being replaced by name-identity-driven cyberspace. Names like the ultimate flag carriers of the brand will skate around the world and tap the right customers, using the latest online multimedia-searching and cyber-branding tools, and this rule of owning a perfect name with a perfect suffix will propel a brand to new stratosphere overnight. Spending millions After years of research in the making, according to this latest study by ABC Namebank, entitled "The New-Name-Economy & 2010 Cyber Branding Strategies", there are already some 18 700 companies in the world today that will apply under this new policy, either by choice or forced by competitive elements, they need to secure layers around their existing brand name identity. Based on their huge budgets, the suggested fee of 100K to 500K is easily affordable. Already, most big companies are either spending millions pushing poorly crafted names or spending millions on defending hit and run squatters. According to this study, there is also a huge second layer of applicants, where some 1.1 million businesses representing the big commercial interests from all the countries of the world that will enter this arena. These organisations basically have no choice but to fully embrace the new model as the performance of their current and existing name identities are already seriously questionable. There are also the Government and Municipal bodies all over the world and thousands of trade associations which would like to form exclusive consortiums to create cyber-umbrella-identities. The study further refers to the last layers of entrepreneurial players from all over the world who will enter this arena to quickly become the next eBay, Google YouTube or Dell, using the mix of multimedia forces and online visibility. The study confirms the role of the dotcom suffix as still being the king, and will remain so until the new system is fully entrenched over the next 5 - 10 years. High-class tone All told, the new registration formula brings a serious high-class tone to the process, the sophistication of creating building and playing on this new name economy will be awesome. Only the best-designed and properly crafted highly logical identities that will pass the stringent test of the Five Star Standard available on the net will have the chance to join the real race while the others will merely be the spectators. Business naming is a very tactical, black-and-white exercise and is not to be confused by typical logo-driven agency project. The study also challenges the high non-refundable costs for being very difficult for non-profit, public organization, developing countries, educational services, and religious and local community organisation and suggest that the huge economy of scale should bring it to a very moderate fee comparable to a regular highly automated and streamlined current global trademark filing fee structure. The approval system should be based on the globally recognised Intellectual Property and Trademark Guidelines, making the process highly transparent and easy to decipher the consequences, with efficient, quick and cost effective outcomes. The entire programme must become a high-speed critical mass to make its global impact and benefit the global users online. The study offers configurations of various National Consortium Registration Models and corporate and public bidding routines. This has resulted in new revival methodologies for advertising agencies that will assist the rules of global nomenclature. The early 2009 launch is already very tight. It requires tactical game planning for businesses to fully sort out preplanned and desired identities and the posture to go after securing them against a global competition. Corporations have already started serious discussions on how to capture the most creative and powerful solutions. Initially, the early domain names took a decade to spread around the globe but today, they are entrenched in every walk of life and, like a tsunami, they will all descend at once from all over the globe in this new race. The global businesses and the public both are gathering fast at the starting lines, getting set and ready to sprint. The shot has been fired. --- -30- Don't you just love it , $cann ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Thu Jul 10 01:08:38 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:08:38 -0700 Subject: [governance] Billion-dollar Domain Industry References: Message-ID: <48759955.D90695E1@ix.netcom.com> Yehuda and all, Your only about 15 days behind the curve. Yehuda Katz wrote: > Billion-dollar Domain Industry > July 8th, 2008 > by Michael Lawrence > > http://www.domainpulse.com/2008/07/08/billion-dollar-domain-industry/ > > The latest ICANN plan to allow the global populace to assemble an entire domain > name like www.yourname.yourname as their free-choice is a revolutionary and > timely decision. This now open doors to cyber-brands such as my.ibm, > hotel.chicago, it.jobs, play.poker, fly.usa or go.dell and applicants will > submit a non-refundable fee of US$100 - 500 000 for each name idea and the > businesses are already jumping to get started. > > A new study estimates that this new registration process would create US$33 > billion in fees in the first three years. The prime beneficiaries will be > ICANN, which operates as a not-for-profit organisation, but it still would have > to deliver a highly structured, high speed service and meet global needs. > > Real beneficiaries > > Other big recipients will be the worldwide domain registrars and highly > specialised experts and lawyers, while the cascading revenues will go to IT and > web support organisations. The public at large will become the real > beneficiaries as a billion new users will come online, millions of new > interactive gateways will open and thousands of new global brands will emerge. > This will make a global impact and bring a new face to the global e-commerce. > The study also points out how in countries around the world, new national clubs > of overnight billion-dollar domain name owners will emerge, all fueling the new > global race. > > In contrast, for over a decade, and after toying with nickel-and-dime > registration fees and fighting over domain names, this mature approach will > alter the domain name perceptions for the global business community, as by and > large, domain names have been the most grossly overlooked aspect of a name > identity assumed to be only to be handled by junior programmers and web > designers. > > The new registration process has built-in controls and gone will be the days > when billion dollar businesses were on their hands and knees when some kid had > their domain name squatted for a nickel and had the capability to pull the > corporate strings. In those earlier days, at US$70 per domain name, up to a > million names per day were being registered. The success was so huge that > VeriSign ended up being sold for US$22 billion. > > Original article : http://www.bizcommunity.com/Article/196/16/26138.html > > --- > > -30- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From b.schombe at gmail.com Fri Jul 11 11:45:43 2008 From: b.schombe at gmail.com (BAUDOUIN SCHOMBE) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:45:43 +0200 Subject: [governance] IGC's booth in IGF Village In-Reply-To: <20080709112314.B9CD468DB8@smtp1.electricembers.net> References: <20080709112314.B9CD468DB8@smtp1.electricembers.net> Message-ID: I am interested Baudouin 2008/7/9 Parminder : > Dear all, > > > > I have requested the IGF secretariat to provisionally reserve a booth for > IGC in the IGF village at the Hyderabad meeting… > > > > Members' advice on this matter is solicited. > > > > We could use the booth as civil society networking point at the IGF. > > > > Parminder > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -- SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN COORDONNATEUR NATIONAL REPRONTIC COORDONNATEUR SOUS REGIONAL ACSIS/AFRIQUE CENTRALE MEMBRE FACILITATEUR GAID AFRIQUE Tél:+243998983491 email:b.schombe at gmail.com http://akimambo.unblog.fr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au Sat Jul 12 17:40:35 2008 From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 14:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] the IGC charter Message-ID: <539321.26376.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, I've had a look at the IGC charter as a result of Parminder's email about preparing a list of members for the caucus. However there is one big flaw. Often there are criticisms from countries of the "south" about the way the "north" does things. However there is a case of the north, and in this case northern hemisphere participants being blind to the southern hemisphere. Under "selection of coordinators" it says "election of the coordinator will be held, whenever possible by midsummer (the summer solstice). If events prevent an election by midsummer, it will be held as soon after midsummer as possible." See www.igcaucus.org/IGC-charter_final-061014.html. One would presume it is the northern hemisphere summer being referred to. But there are TWO summer solstices. Us folk in the southern hemisphere have one too. Given the summer solstice date changes a day or so every now and then, this should ideally be changed to a date such as June 1 or July 1 or some such agreed date. There is also a second issue I would like to see added at some stage, and that is that the mailing lists referred to should have a statement that comments should be kept to the topic of internet goverance. Cheers David --------- David Goldstein address: 4/3 Abbott Street COOGEE NSW 2034 AUSTRALIA email: Goldstein_David @yahoo.com.au phone: +61 418 228 605 (mobile); +61 2 9665 5773 (home) "Every time you use fossil fuels, you're adding to the problem. Every time you forgo fossil fuels, you're being part of the solution" - Dr Tim Flannery Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From avri at psg.com Sat Jul 12 19:50:00 2008 From: avri at psg.com (Avri Doria) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:50:00 -0400 Subject: [governance] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <539321.26376.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <539321.26376.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <89EFCCE4-17B5-41A4-B593-EE269439AF97@psg.com> Hi, I am probably no longer a member (or at least 2 days away from being de-facto ejected from the caucus) so my view on the charter is probably irrelevant, but of course you are right. Though one could argue that it gave the coordinators two chances to be timely per year. Not that that the IGC got anywhere close to the either of the first solstices. But this is soon after the second summer solstice in the north. Curiously there were both Southern and Northern people involved in writing and reviewing the charter and no one commented until now. By the way is it called midsummer in the South? a. (a teacher of summer school, in both the north and the south.) On 12 Jul 2008, at 17:40, David Goldstein wrote: > Hi all, > > I've had a look at the IGC charter as a result of Parminder's email > about preparing a list of members for the caucus. However there is > one big flaw. Often there are criticisms from countries of the > "south" about the way the "north" does things. However there is a > case of the north, and in this case northern hemisphere participants > being blind to the southern hemisphere. > > Under "selection of coordinators" it says "election of the > coordinator will be held, whenever possible by midsummer (the summer > solstice). If events prevent an election by midsummer, it will be > held as soon after midsummer as possible." See www.igcaucus.org/IGC-charter_final-061014.html > . > > One would presume it is the northern hemisphere summer being > referred to. But there are TWO summer solstices. Us folk in the > southern hemisphere have one too. Given the summer solstice date > changes a day or so every now and then, this should ideally be > changed to a date such as June 1 or July 1 or some such agreed date. > > There is also a second issue I would like to see added at some > stage, and that is that the mailing lists referred to should have a > statement that comments should be kept to the topic of internet > goverance. > > Cheers > David > > --------- > > > David Goldstein > address: 4/3 Abbott Street > COOGEE NSW 2034 > AUSTRALIA > email: Goldstein_David @yahoo.com.au > phone: +61 418 228 605 (mobile); +61 2 9665 5773 (home) > > > "Every time you use fossil fuels, you're adding to the problem. > Every time you forgo fossil fuels, you're being part of the > solution" - Dr Tim Flannery > > > > Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 11 23:25:52 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:25:52 -0700 Subject: [governance] the IGC charter References: <539321.26376.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <89EFCCE4-17B5-41A4-B593-EE269439AF97@psg.com> Message-ID: <4878243F.B07BF906@ix.netcom.com> Avri and all, Thank you so much for this enlightening bit of information. I am sure it is properly appriciated by others, if not all. Avri Doria wrote: > Hi, > > I am probably no longer a member (or at least 2 days away from being > de-facto ejected from the caucus) so my view on the charter is > probably irrelevant, but of course you are right. > > Though one could argue that it gave the coordinators two chances to be > timely per year. Not that that the IGC got anywhere close to the > either of the first solstices. But this is soon after the second > summer solstice in the north. > > Curiously there were both Southern and Northern people involved in > writing and reviewing the charter and no one commented until now. > > By the way is it called midsummer in the South? > > a. > > (a teacher of summer school, in both the north and the south.) > > On 12 Jul 2008, at 17:40, David Goldstein wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > I've had a look at the IGC charter as a result of Parminder's email > > about preparing a list of members for the caucus. However there is > > one big flaw. Often there are criticisms from countries of the > > "south" about the way the "north" does things. However there is a > > case of the north, and in this case northern hemisphere participants > > being blind to the southern hemisphere. > > > > Under "selection of coordinators" it says "election of the > > coordinator will be held, whenever possible by midsummer (the summer > > solstice). If events prevent an election by midsummer, it will be > > held as soon after midsummer as possible." See www.igcaucus.org/IGC-charter_final-061014.html > > . > > > > One would presume it is the northern hemisphere summer being > > referred to. But there are TWO summer solstices. Us folk in the > > southern hemisphere have one too. Given the summer solstice date > > changes a day or so every now and then, this should ideally be > > changed to a date such as June 1 or July 1 or some such agreed date. > > > > There is also a second issue I would like to see added at some > > stage, and that is that the mailing lists referred to should have a > > statement that comments should be kept to the topic of internet > > goverance. > > > > Cheers > > David > > > > --------- > > > > > > David Goldstein > > address: 4/3 Abbott Street > > COOGEE NSW 2034 > > AUSTRALIA > > email: Goldstein_David @yahoo.com.au > > phone: +61 418 228 605 (mobile); +61 2 9665 5773 (home) > > > > > > "Every time you use fossil fuels, you're adding to the problem. > > Every time you forgo fossil fuels, you're being part of the > > solution" - Dr Tim Flannery > > > > > > > > Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au Sun Jul 13 04:37:41 2008 From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 01:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] the IGC charter Message-ID: <491364.89267.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Avri, It probably depends on where you are in the southern hemisphere as to what it's called. But it would be more likely be called the "summer solstice" in Australia, and "midsummer" is not a common term there. David ----- Original Message ---- From: Avri Doria To: Governance Mailing List Sent: Sunday, 13 July, 2008 9:50:00 AM Subject: Re: [governance] the IGC charter Hi, I am probably no longer a member (or at least 2 days away from being de-facto ejected from the caucus) so my view on the charter is probably irrelevant, but of course you are right. Though one could argue that it gave the coordinators two chances to be timely per year. Not that that the IGC got anywhere close to the either of the first solstices. But this is soon after the second summer solstice in the north. Curiously there were both Southern and Northern people involved in writing and reviewing the charter and no one commented until now. By the way is it called midsummer in the South? a. (a teacher of summer school, in both the north and the south.) On 12 Jul 2008, at 17:40, David Goldstein wrote: > Hi all, > > I've had a look at the IGC charter as a result of Parminder's email > about preparing a list of members for the caucus. However there is > one big flaw. Often there are criticisms from countries of the > "south" about the way the "north" does things. However there is a > case of the north, and in this case northern hemisphere participants > being blind to the southern hemisphere. > > Under "selection of coordinators" it says "election of the > coordinator will be held, whenever possible by midsummer (the summer > solstice). If events prevent an election by midsummer, it will be > held as soon after midsummer as possible." See www.igcaucus.org/IGC-charter_final-061014.html > . > > One would presume it is the northern hemisphere summer being > referred to. But there are TWO summer solstices. Us folk in the > southern hemisphere have one too. Given the summer solstice date > changes a day or so every now and then, this should ideally be > changed to a date such as June 1 or July 1 or some such agreed date. > > There is also a second issue I would like to see added at some > stage, and that is that the mailing lists referred to should have a > statement that comments should be kept to the topic of internet > goverance. > > Cheers > David > > --------- > > > David Goldstein > address: 4/3 Abbott Street > COOGEE NSW 2034 > AUSTRALIA > email: Goldstein_David @yahoo.com.au > phone: +61 418 228 605 (mobile); +61 2 9665 5773 (home) > > > "Every time you use fossil fuels, you're adding to the problem. > Every time you forgo fossil fuels, you're being part of the > solution" - Dr Tim Flannery > > > > Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Sun Jul 13 07:26:22 2008 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:26:22 +0200 Subject: AW: [governance] the IGC charter References: <539321.26376.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FDD@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> David: One would presume it is the northern hemisphere summer being referred to. But there are TWO summer solstices. Us folk in the southern hemisphere have one too. Wolfgang This is one reason why will have TWO "Summer Schools on Internet Governance" (SSIG) in 2009. One (in July) in Meissen/Germany and one (in March) in Buenos Aires/Argentina :-))))) Cheers w ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From bfausett at internet.law.pro Sun Jul 13 13:18:45 2008 From: bfausett at internet.law.pro (Bret Fausett) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 10:18:45 -0700 Subject: [governance] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <89EFCCE4-17B5-41A4-B593-EE269439AF97@psg.com> References: <539321.26376.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <89EFCCE4-17B5-41A4-B593-EE269439AF97@psg.com> Message-ID: <579B56EB-4E83-4C29-AC0B-E404F8806C29@internet.law.pro> > I am probably no longer a member (or at least 2 days away from being > de-facto ejected from the caucus) so my view on the charter is > probably irrelevant... In response to a private email from Parminder, I reviewed the charter again. Personally, I've always had a problem with loyalty oaths, but the charter looked completely benign to me, so I opted in. What's the concern? Bret ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From avri at psg.com Sun Jul 13 14:06:55 2008 From: avri at psg.com (Avri Doria) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:06:55 -0400 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <579B56EB-4E83-4C29-AC0B-E404F8806C29@internet.law.pro> References: <539321.26376.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <89EFCCE4-17B5-41A4-B593-EE269439AF97@psg.com> <579B56EB-4E83-4C29-AC0B-E404F8806C29@internet.law.pro> Message-ID: <45E7C948-6FFC-45F6-94A0-BC4A6B538F01@psg.com> On 13 Jul 2008, at 13:18, Bret Fausett wrote: >> I am probably no longer a member (or at least 2 days away from >> being de-facto ejected from the caucus) so my view on the charter >> is probably irrelevant... > > > In response to a private email from Parminder, I reviewed the > charter again. Personally, I've always had a problem with loyalty > oaths, but the charter looked completely benign to me, so I opted > in. What's the concern? Briefly, since I have already bored this list too much with my 'minority' opinion. - there is no intrinsic harm in asking people to say they agree with the charter. in fac as a step between elections as a way to include mew people as members it is a good idea. - I and others have voted in the past so i am currently a member. To use the new list being created by our coordinators now ignoring the charter and the list of people who voted before in the definition of membership is a violation of the charter in my view. - The charter requires that the vote be sent to all subscribers and that in the act of voting they (re) affirm their membership as CS and in the IGC as defined in the charter. To use this list as is proposed by the coordinators, to define who can receive a ballot, is in breach of the charter as i read it. Personally, i cannot participate in an act which I believe is redundant for many of us, and which is in support of a breach of the charter - even if asking people to sign on to the charter is not a breach in and of itself - defining membership based on that is I believe such a breach, and only sending ballots to members so defined is certainly a breach. Once the voting list is sent out in contravention to the charter, it may be appealable, before then all i can do is state my position. Though it will be curious, if all those who did not take the oath are not members then will we have the right to appeal? Note: even if no longer a member, I do plan to remain active on this list - assuming I am allowed. a. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Sun Jul 13 15:23:38 2008 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:23:38 +0200 Subject: AW: [governance] [process] the IGC charter References: <539321.26376.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <89EFCCE4-17B5-41A4-B593-EE269439AF97@psg.com> <579B56EB-4E83-4C29-AC0B-E404F8806C29@internet.law.pro> <45E7C948-6FFC-45F6-94A0-BC4A6B538F01@psg.com> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FE9@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> I was away from some communication the last three weeks.Can somebody explain me in short word what is going on here? I do not understand what does it mean to be or remain a member to be in or out? Wolfgang ________________________________ Von: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com] Gesendet: So 13.07.2008 20:06 An: Governance Mailing List Betreff: Re: [governance] [process] the IGC charter On 13 Jul 2008, at 13:18, Bret Fausett wrote: >> I am probably no longer a member (or at least 2 days away from >> being de-facto ejected from the caucus) so my view on the charter >> is probably irrelevant... > > > In response to a private email from Parminder, I reviewed the > charter again. Personally, I've always had a problem with loyalty > oaths, but the charter looked completely benign to me, so I opted > in. What's the concern? Briefly, since I have already bored this list too much with my 'minority' opinion. - there is no intrinsic harm in asking people to say they agree with the charter. in fac as a step between elections as a way to include mew people as members it is a good idea. - I and others have voted in the past so i am currently a member. To use the new list being created by our coordinators now ignoring the charter and the list of people who voted before in the definition of membership is a violation of the charter in my view. - The charter requires that the vote be sent to all subscribers and that in the act of voting they (re) affirm their membership as CS and in the IGC as defined in the charter. To use this list as is proposed by the coordinators, to define who can receive a ballot, is in breach of the charter as i read it. Personally, i cannot participate in an act which I believe is redundant for many of us, and which is in support of a breach of the charter - even if asking people to sign on to the charter is not a breach in and of itself - defining membership based on that is I believe such a breach, and only sending ballots to members so defined is certainly a breach. Once the voting list is sent out in contravention to the charter, it may be appealable, before then all i can do is state my position. Though it will be curious, if all those who did not take the oath are not members then will we have the right to appeal? Note: even if no longer a member, I do plan to remain active on this list - assuming I am allowed. a. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From avri at psg.com Sun Jul 13 16:08:24 2008 From: avri at psg.com (Avri Doria) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:08:24 -0400 Subject: AW: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FE9@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <539321.26376.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <89EFCCE4-17B5-41A4-B593-EE269439AF97@psg.com> <579B56EB-4E83-4C29-AC0B-E404F8806C29@internet.law.pro> <45E7C948-6FFC-45F6-94A0-BC4A6B538F01@psg.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FE9@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: hi, from my biased view point: our leaders are now preparing for the long overdue election for which we have 2 candidates. instead of send the ballot to everyone and asking everyone who votes to confirm that they are CS members of IGC on the ballot (as i believe the charter requires), the coordinators have decided that it should only be sent to members who self declare before the ballot that they are members. Parminder has, I beleive, sent everyone a message encouraging them to send him a message where they declare that they subscribe to the charter. those who send him such a message (assuming they have been on the list for 2 months or more) will be called members and will be entitled to a ballot in the upcoming coordinator election. some of use think this process runs counter to the charter of the IGC. for some it is difficult to both participate in an event that is against the charter while claiming to support the charter. i have decided that it would be redundant for anyone who voted in the past to send in such an email and that i will not take part in an activity that i see as being against the charter (not the collection of the pledges, but the act of calling only those people members and sending ballots only to those people) and finally many people are sick of the discussion and some have asked that anyone discussing it mark the email with the subject indicator [process] so they could ignore it. some few, even non members by virtue of having not voted in the previous election or in the charter ballot, have even said that discussing this makes the IGC appear ridiculous in the eyes of the world. i figure that based on the coordinator's decision, i will be a non member by sometime tuesday. that means i won't be able to vote for one of the two candidates for coordinator. i think it also means i will no longer be qualified for the appeals team, which is also way overdue in terms of its renewal/replacement. it may also mean that i will no longer be in the position to appeal against the abrogation of the charter by the coordiantors. but that will be up to the appeals team to decide - assuming i or anyone else actually goes to the effort to file an appeal. cheers, a. On 13 Jul 2008, at 15:23, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: > I was away from some communication the last three weeks.Can somebody > explain me in short word what is going on here? I do not understand > what does it mean to be or remain a member to be in or out? > > Wolfgang > > ________________________________ > > Von: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com] > Gesendet: So 13.07.2008 20:06 > An: Governance Mailing List > Betreff: Re: [governance] [process] the IGC charter > > > > > On 13 Jul 2008, at 13:18, Bret Fausett wrote: > >>> I am probably no longer a member (or at least 2 days away from >>> being de-facto ejected from the caucus) so my view on the charter >>> is probably irrelevant... >> >> >> In response to a private email from Parminder, I reviewed the >> charter again. Personally, I've always had a problem with loyalty >> oaths, but the charter looked completely benign to me, so I opted >> in. What's the concern? > > > Briefly, since I have already bored this list too much with my > 'minority' opinion. > > - there is no intrinsic harm in asking people to say they agree with > the charter. in fac as a step between elections as a way to include > mew people as members it is a good idea. > > - I and others have voted in the past so i am currently a member. To > use the new list being created by our coordinators now ignoring the > charter and the list of people who voted before in the definition of > membership is a violation of the charter in my view. > > - The charter requires that the vote be sent to all subscribers and > that in the act of voting they (re) affirm their membership as CS and > in the IGC as defined in the charter. To use this list as is proposed > by the coordinators, to define who can receive a ballot, is in breach > of the charter as i read it. > > Personally, i cannot participate in an act which I believe is > redundant for many of us, and which is in support of a breach of the > charter - even if asking people to sign on to the charter is not a > breach in and of itself - defining membership based on that is I > believe such a breach, and only sending ballots to members so defined > is certainly a breach. > > Once the voting list is sent out in contravention to the charter, it > may be appealable, before then all i can do is state my position. > Though it will be curious, if all those who did not take the oath are > not members then will we have the right to appeal? > > Note: even if no longer a member, I do plan to remain active on this > list - assuming I am allowed. > > a. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Sun Jul 13 19:55:30 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AW: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: AB4767A9-F6FD-420A-BFFB-B524B79FEEC8@psg.com Message-ID: Avri, I summarily dismissed Paraminders recent request as a form of 'Voters-Registration'. Swearing away my first-born to the New-iWorld-Order was just prosaic, not allegiance. Millions are going to Register-to-Vote this year in the U.S. election Nov. 2nd. And certainly not all of them will agree with the incumbent-administration, particularly a few Floridians, -BUT- they register to Vote despite their differences, and swore too their truths at that time. Be that as it may, I agree with the distinction of your stature: ... - The charter requires that the vote be sent to all subscribers and that in the act of voting they (re) affirm their membership as CS and in the IGC as defined in the charter. To use this list as is proposed by the coordinators, to define who can receive a ballot, is in breach of the charter as I read it. ... It is written, so I offer you My Vote as a proxy for your voice. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 12 22:34:52 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:34:52 -0700 Subject: AW: [governance] [process] the IGC charter References: Message-ID: <487969CC.ED8BDA63@ix.netcom.com> Yehuda and all, How nobel of you. I don't believe that the charter provides for proxy voting however. You may vote as Avri demands I suppose. In any event, it seems more than obvious that arguing over process here seems to take precedent in debating principals, issues and policy. Such seems rather less than productive... Yehuda Katz wrote: > Avri, > > I summarily dismissed Paraminders recent request as a form of > 'Voters-Registration'. Swearing away my first-born to the New-iWorld-Order was > just prosaic, not allegiance. > > Millions are going to Register-to-Vote this year in the U.S. election Nov. 2nd. > And certainly not all of them will agree with the incumbent-administration, > particularly a few Floridians, -BUT- they register to Vote despite their > differences, and swore too their truths at that time. > > Be that as it may, I agree with the distinction of your stature: > > ... > - The charter requires that the vote be sent to all subscribers and that in the > act of voting they (re) affirm their membership as CS and in the IGC as defined > in the charter. To use this list as is proposed by the coordinators, to define > who can receive a ballot, is in breach of the charter as I read it. > ... > > It is written, so I offer you My Vote as a proxy for your voice. > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Mon Jul 14 03:49:41 2008 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:49:41 +0200 Subject: AW: AW: [governance] [process] the IGC charter References: <487969CC.ED8BDA63@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FED@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> BTW, being out for some weeks, who are the two candidates? wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From rudi.vansnick at isoc.be Mon Jul 14 04:56:40 2008 From: rudi.vansnick at isoc.be (Rudi Vansnick) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:56:40 +0200 Subject: [governance] IGC's booth in IGF Village In-Reply-To: <20080709112314.B9CD468DB8@smtp1.electricembers.net> References: <20080709112314.B9CD468DB8@smtp1.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <487B14C8.1060105@isoc.be> Seems a good idea to me. All depends on what we will/want to bring as a message at the boot. Rudi Vansnick Parminder schreef: > > Dear all, > > > > I have requested the IGF secretariat to provisionally reserve a booth > for IGC in the IGF village at the Hyderabad meeting… > > > > Members’ advice on this matter is solicited. > > > > We could use the booth as civil society networking point at the IGF. > > > > Parminder > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1541 - Release Date: 8/07/2008 19:50 > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1550 - Release Date: 13/07/2008 17:58 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Mon Jul 14 05:41:12 2008 From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:41:12 +0200 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <45E7C948-6FFC-45F6-94A0-BC4A6B538F01@psg.com> Message-ID: Hi On 7/13/08 8:06 PM, "Avri Doria" wrote: > - there is no intrinsic harm in asking people to say they agree with > the charter. in fac as a step between elections as a way to include > mew people as members it is a good idea. Agree > - The charter requires that the vote be sent to all subscribers and > that in the act of voting they (re) affirm their membership as CS and > in the IGC as defined in the charter. To use this list as is proposed > by the coordinators, to define who can receive a ballot, is in breach > of the charter as i read it. Avri is right that the charter says this, there can be no denying it, it's clearly stated. However, I also think it's a real flaw in the charter, one which I wish in retrospect we'd debated more seriously when we wrote the thing. I recognize that there are those who prefer the caucus to be an amorphous blob---in McTim's words, a "zenlike/anarchic" space one can decide to be in or not "in the moment" depending on the weather, whether they had a nice lunch and are feeling mellow, etc. But a grouping based on this shallow a level of commitment to shared values and positions is unlikely to be able to agree or achieve much of anything, and indeed the caucus has struggled post-WSIS in part because of it. It's certainly not how I thought of the caucus when I joined five years ago (suspect the same holds for some others here), nor is it the zeitgeist of other, more effect ICT-oriented CS coalitions one could name. Sorry if that sounds insufficiently postmodern. Personally, I would favor establishing a separate space for those want to be in the caucus and do public interest advocacy and leave the gov list for broader multistakeholder debate and mud slinging. I think this would be liberating both for people who want to be in a real coalition and for people who don't and don't want to read angst-ridden sausage making threads. But I suspect I'm a minority of one on that. In any event, while I supported Parminder's suggestion of polling to see who thinks they're in the caucus and would like to know that myself, I cannot see how the caucus as it is can follow an election procedure that is sharply at odds with the explicit wording of its charter. So I'd follow the rules for the election and afterwards try to see if those who've affirmed their membership can't have a useful discussion of what they want the caucus to be and perhaps amend the charter if there's sufficient support for that. Cheers, Bill ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeanette at wzb.eu Mon Jul 14 06:44:33 2008 From: jeanette at wzb.eu (Jeanette Hofmann) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:44:33 +0100 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <487B2E11.9080908@wzb.eu> Hi, I agree with what Bill recommends regarding the voting procedure, which is: So I'd follow the rules > for the election and afterwards try to see if those who've affirmed their > membership can't have a useful discussion of what they want the caucus to be > and perhaps amend the charter if there's sufficient support for that. However, I am not in favor of Bill's idea to create a formal seperate space for the caucus members. This list has always been a somewhat odd hybrid of a general platform for disussing IG related topics and a civil society space for agreeing on advocacy positions. When I was co-chairing the caucus, I was even a bit proud of the growing subscriber list and the fact that we got more and more non civil society lurkers who found our debates relevant enough to listen on a regular basis. I wouldn't want to jeopardize the general platform function of this list. On the contrary, I would do anything possible to ensure high quality discussions that make it worth listening. A seperation of the two functions of this list seems a potential death knell to me. jeanette William Drake wrote: > Hi > > On 7/13/08 8:06 PM, "Avri Doria" wrote: > >> - there is no intrinsic harm in asking people to say they agree with >> the charter. in fac as a step between elections as a way to include >> mew people as members it is a good idea. > > Agree > >> - The charter requires that the vote be sent to all subscribers and >> that in the act of voting they (re) affirm their membership as CS and >> in the IGC as defined in the charter. To use this list as is proposed >> by the coordinators, to define who can receive a ballot, is in breach >> of the charter as i read it. > > Avri is right that the charter says this, there can be no denying it, it's > clearly stated. However, I also think it's a real flaw in the charter, one > which I wish in retrospect we'd debated more seriously when we wrote the > thing. I recognize that there are those who prefer the caucus to be an > amorphous blob---in McTim's words, a "zenlike/anarchic" space one can decide > to be in or not "in the moment" depending on the weather, whether they had a > nice lunch and are feeling mellow, etc. But a grouping based on this > shallow a level of commitment to shared values and positions is unlikely to > be able to agree or achieve much of anything, and indeed the caucus has > struggled post-WSIS in part because of it. It's certainly not how I thought > of the caucus when I joined five years ago (suspect the same holds for some > others here), nor is it the zeitgeist of other, more effect ICT-oriented CS > coalitions one could name. Sorry if that sounds insufficiently postmodern. > > Personally, I would favor establishing a separate space for those want to be > in the caucus and do public interest advocacy and leave the gov list for > broader multistakeholder debate and mud slinging. I think this would be > liberating both for people who want to be in a real coalition and for people > who don't and don't want to read angst-ridden sausage making threads. But I > suspect I'm a minority of one on that. > > In any event, while I supported Parminder's suggestion of polling to see who > thinks they're in the caucus and would like to know that myself, I cannot > see how the caucus as it is can follow an election procedure that is sharply > at odds with the explicit wording of its charter. So I'd follow the rules > for the election and afterwards try to see if those who've affirmed their > membership can't have a useful discussion of what they want the caucus to be > and perhaps amend the charter if there's sufficient support for that. > > Cheers, > > Bill > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From avri at psg.com Mon Jul 14 06:55:36 2008 From: avri at psg.com (Avri Doria) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 06:55:36 -0400 Subject: AW: AW: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FED@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <487969CC.ED8BDA63@ix.netcom.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FED@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: On 14 Jul 2008, at 03:49, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: > BTW, being out for some weeks, who are the two candidates? It was a while ago, Sometime back in January I believe. Ian Peter and Michael Gurstein volunteered to stand as candidates. This reference from Parminder on 23 June: > The elections will be held in the week starting 14th July. The two > candidates for the elections are David Goldstein and Ian Peter, to > whom I apologize for this extra-ordinary delay in holding the > elections, which was mostly due to some complications regarding > preparing a voters list. > > Parminder > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Sun Jul 13 10:29:18 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 07:29:18 -0700 Subject: AW: AW: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <028e01c8e4f4$d6b4b7a0$6401a8c0@michael78xnoln> Yes, I believe it was David G. rather than Michael G. (In any case it most certainly wasn't me... MG -----Original Message----- From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com] Sent: July 14, 2008 3:56 AM To: Governance Mailing List Subject: Re: AW: AW: [governance] [process] the IGC charter On 14 Jul 2008, at 03:49, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: > BTW, being out for some weeks, who are the two candidates? It was a while ago, Sometime back in January I believe. Ian Peter and Michael Gurstein volunteered to stand as candidates. This reference from Parminder on 23 June: > The elections will be held in the week starting 14th July. The two > candidates for the elections are David Goldstein and Ian Peter, to > whom I apologize for this extra-ordinary delay in holding the > elections, which was mostly due to some complications regarding > preparing a voters list. > > Parminder > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Mon Jul 14 07:38:48 2008 From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:38:48 +0200 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <487B2E11.9080908@wzb.eu> Message-ID: Hi Je On 7/14/08 12:44 PM, "Jeanette Hofmann" wrote: > Hi, I agree with what Bill recommends regarding the voting procedure, It would be good to hear from others and get put this issue to rest. I don't believe I've heard more than one person arguing for ignoring the charter procedure, so a priori it shouldn't be complicated. > However, I am not in favor of Bill's idea to create a formal seperate > space for the caucus members. This list has always been a somewhat odd > hybrid of a general platform for disussing IG related topics and a civil > society space for agreeing on advocacy positions. When I was co-chairing > the caucus, I was even a bit proud of the growing subscriber list and > the fact that we got more and more non civil society lurkers who found > our debates relevant enough to listen on a regular basis. I wouldn't > want to jeopardize the general platform function of this list. On the > contrary, I would do anything possible to ensure high quality > discussions that make it worth listening. A seperation of the two > functions of this list seems a potential death knell to me. This made sense to me circa early 2004, it doesn't anymore. In fact, multiple people are saying they don't want to read discussions of caucus. The interest is in broader IG discussions, which would remain lively and which caucus people would certainly continue to engage on here even if there was a separate list to sort out statements at IGF consultations, MAG nominations, workshops, and the like. Anyway, this was a side comment, probably it'd be a distraction to get into it now; I'd suggest we sort out what's happening with the election business and return to the existential issues afterwards. Cheers, Bill ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From avri at psg.com Mon Jul 14 09:21:59 2008 From: avri at psg.com (Avri Doria) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:21:59 -0400 Subject: AW: AW: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <028e01c8e4f4$d6b4b7a0$6401a8c0@michael78xnoln> References: <028e01c8e4f4$d6b4b7a0$6401a8c0@michael78xnoln> Message-ID: <2EDFF2F0-BCD1-487A-813A-D3A53DF9E9DF@psg.com> Aplogies for the error. a. On 13 Jul 2008, at 10:29, Michael Gurstein wrote: > Yes, I believe it was David G. rather than Michael G. > > (In any case it most certainly wasn't me... > > MG > > -----Original Message----- > From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com] > Sent: July 14, 2008 3:56 AM > To: Governance Mailing List > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [governance] [process] the IGC charter > > > > On 14 Jul 2008, at 03:49, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: > >> BTW, being out for some weeks, who are the two candidates? > > > It was a while ago, Sometime back in January I believe. Ian Peter and > Michael Gurstein volunteered to stand as candidates. > > This reference from Parminder on 23 June: > >> The elections will be held in the week starting 14th July. The two >> candidates for the elections are David Goldstein and Ian Peter, to >> whom I apologize for this extra-ordinary delay in holding the >> elections, which was mostly due to some complications regarding >> preparing a voters list. >> >> Parminder >> > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From db at dannybutt.net Mon Jul 14 09:40:49 2008 From: db at dannybutt.net (Danny Butt) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:40:49 +1000 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26B8BC7A-0050-433D-8187-090D2F5426B1@dannybutt.net> Hi all Just a note to follow up Bill's point - one of the reasons I don't contribute so much to the list is because of the interference between 1) the discussion function and 2) the attempts to influence e.g. the IGF process etc. The ability to debate issues is often overwhelmed by the (perhaps necessary) procedural issues and administrivia of the IGF- related processes. And the ability to formulate an effective, organised intervention into intergovernmental processes is not really aided by freewheeling debate where all of us pick out our own personal points of interest to discuss. So I would just like to register support for Bill's suggestion, including that the details of the debate should occur after sorting out the elections, but here I just want to let others on the list know that there might be a range of opinions on this issue and that it should be discussed. I actually think a version of this issue underlies the process/charter debate happening now, and refactoring that debate to the terms suggested by Bill might prevent this kind of procedural debate reoccuring. Cheers, Danny -- http://www.dannybutt.net On 14/07/2008, at 9:38 PM, William Drake wrote: > Hi Je > > On 7/14/08 12:44 PM, "Jeanette Hofmann" wrote: > >> Hi, I agree with what Bill recommends regarding the voting procedure, > > It would be good to hear from others and get put this issue to > rest. I > don't believe I've heard more than one person arguing for ignoring the > charter procedure, so a priori it shouldn't be complicated. > >> However, I am not in favor of Bill's idea to create a formal seperate >> space for the caucus members. This list has always been a somewhat >> odd >> hybrid of a general platform for disussing IG related topics and a >> civil >> society space for agreeing on advocacy positions. When I was co- >> chairing >> the caucus, I was even a bit proud of the growing subscriber list and >> the fact that we got more and more non civil society lurkers who >> found >> our debates relevant enough to listen on a regular basis. I wouldn't >> want to jeopardize the general platform function of this list. On the >> contrary, I would do anything possible to ensure high quality >> discussions that make it worth listening. A seperation of the two >> functions of this list seems a potential death knell to me. > > This made sense to me circa early 2004, it doesn't anymore. In fact, > multiple people are saying they don't want to read discussions of > caucus. > The interest is in broader IG discussions, which would remain lively > and > which caucus people would certainly continue to engage on here even > if there > was a separate list to sort out statements at IGF consultations, MAG > nominations, workshops, and the like. Anyway, this was a side > comment, > probably it'd be a distraction to get into it now; I'd suggest we > sort out > what's happening with the election business and return to the > existential > issues afterwards. > > Cheers, > > Bill > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Mon Jul 14 12:27:58 2008 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:27:58 +0200 Subject: AW: [governance] [process] the IGC charter References: <487B2E11.9080908@wzb.eu> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FF1@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Dear list, after reading all the recent mails and rethinking various arguments I tend to support Jeanette. First priority for the IGC should be to have a discussion platform as open and inclusive as possible. This creates unavoidably some problems, as we have seen the recent years. But regardless of all the personal battles the list produces enough good arguments, information and links so a lot of people benefit. This is of key importance. And this shuld be the overriding principle and guideline. Procedural issues - like elections - are certainly also important but procedures have to serve the purpose. Insofar I could live with very pragmativc procedures, as long as they serve the main purpose of the list:To promote, stimulate and, where needed, steer open and bottom up debates on IG issues from a civil society perspective. But let me use this opportunity also to remind both oldies and newbies on the list about the IGC history. It is worth to remember where the IGC comes from. Without WSIS, no IGC. IG was originally no issue in the WSIS context during PrepCom1 (Geneva, July 2002). This changed during PrepCom2 (Geneva, Febaruary 2003. As a result of the series of regional Ministerial Conferences (in particular the meeting in Beirut) various governments discovered IG as a big issue and pushed for it during PrepCom2. This was the moment, when some individuals immeditaly argued that IG needs the full involvment of non-governmental stakeholders, and in particular of individual Internet users and civil society. see: http://www.itu.int/wsis/docs/pc2/inf/workshop/flyer3.doc At this time, the organisational and institutional level of CS in WSIS was rather low. Alan and Lousie proposed (top down) a IG bureau, other proposed, bottom up a Content & Themse CS Working Group which should include working groups from the various fields of interests - from media to oprivacy, from IP to financing. . This was the moment (in the ILO building in Geneva in February 2003)) when YJ and I myself pushed for something like an IG caucus and co-chaired it until the end of the geneva phase. The main purpose (and practical need at this time) was to create a flat institutional network which would be able to channel CS input on Internet Governance issues into the intergovernmental WSIS process. Before that there was just a bunch of engaged individuals which were mainly ignored by governments regardless of the good points they raised in individual statements. The recognition and the power of the IGC came with its structured approach, its specific knoweldge and expertise and its linkage to the ground. It was like the re-invention of ICANNs At Large movement which was killed in 2002. One of its first success was to open the intergovernmental WG on IG issues in Paris during the WSIS Interim PrepCom (July 2003) in the famous night session in UNESCOs HQ basement when CS people were confronted governmental representatives - who wanted to extend the principle of national sovereignty and state control over the Internet - with arguments on the borderless nature of the cyberspace, procedurs for IP address alocation, the DNS and the P2P principle..This helped a lot to change to tone of the debate. The IGC raised its voice louder and louder on the way to Geneva (December 2003) and became a serious key player, in particular in PrepCom3++ before the Summit where the idea of the WGIG emerged and its mandate was drafted. This para. gave for the first time CS a clear defined role in IG in the WSIS process and paved the way for CS representatives in WGIG (which developed within WGIG the idea of the IGF). Jeanette and Adam, who took over in Geneva, pushed it further foreward and the IGC was exremely successful in contributing the the Tunis compromise, including the IGF. This was in particular the case during PrepCom3 (Geneva September 2005) when, inter alia, Jeanettes key statement on the final day (with a EU-US controversy in the background) convinced Ambassador Khan to reconsider his planning for PrepCom3+ and to negotiate the final compromise until the bitter end in the plenary which allowed CS to stay in the room until the deal was done. Jeanette and Adam can be proud that the IGC grew under their leadership and got this high recognition. When Parminder und Vittorio overtook the leadership after Tunis, we realized soon that it became more and more complicated to move forward without more defined procedures and we entered into this phase were proecedural and substantial discussions became mixed. I was also very disappointed that Vittorio more less disappeared leaving a gap in the leadership. However, at the end of the day also in the post Tunis phase the IGC was able to play a rather significant role in the IGF process, which started in 2006 with prepared statements in the Geneva consultations, representation in the MAG and workshops in Athens and Rio. So thanks Parminder for helping this done. With this history the new leadership faces a big challenge. Even if I did not register and have obviously no vote now I would express my support for both Ian and Michael. Both are involved in the debates since years, they know the issues and have the international standing and recognition to be respected by the community also ouside the CS groups. IG today is broader than IGF. We saw recently the OECD conference (where Michael was involved). We will have national ansd regional IGFs. And we will have an At Large Summit within ICANN in Mexico in March 2009. And there will be an ITU World Telecommunicaiton Policy Forum also in March 2009. In all these events, the IGC neds a strong voice. This is a great opportunity and I hope that regardless of all the day-to-day-confrontation collective wisdom will overcame and we will be able to continue this IGC success story. Best regards Wolfgang ________________________________ Von: Jeanette Hofmann [mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu] Gesendet: Mo 14.07.2008 12:44 An: governance at lists.cpsr.org; William Drake Cc: Avri Doria Betreff: Re: [governance] [process] the IGC charter Hi, I agree with what Bill recommends regarding the voting procedure, which is: So I'd follow the rules > for the election and afterwards try to see if those who've affirmed their > membership can't have a useful discussion of what they want the caucus to be > and perhaps amend the charter if there's sufficient support for that. However, I am not in favor of Bill's idea to create a formal seperate space for the caucus members. This list has always been a somewhat odd hybrid of a general platform for disussing IG related topics and a civil society space for agreeing on advocacy positions. When I was co-chairing the caucus, I was even a bit proud of the growing subscriber list and the fact that we got more and more non civil society lurkers who found our debates relevant enough to listen on a regular basis. I wouldn't want to jeopardize the general platform function of this list. On the contrary, I would do anything possible to ensure high quality discussions that make it worth listening. A seperation of the two functions of this list seems a potential death knell to me. jeanette William Drake wrote: > Hi > > On 7/13/08 8:06 PM, "Avri Doria" wrote: > >> - there is no intrinsic harm in asking people to say they agree with >> the charter. in fac as a step between elections as a way to include >> mew people as members it is a good idea. > > Agree > >> - The charter requires that the vote be sent to all subscribers and >> that in the act of voting they (re) affirm their membership as CS and >> in the IGC as defined in the charter. To use this list as is proposed >> by the coordinators, to define who can receive a ballot, is in breach >> of the charter as i read it. > > Avri is right that the charter says this, there can be no denying it, it's > clearly stated. However, I also think it's a real flaw in the charter, one > which I wish in retrospect we'd debated more seriously when we wrote the > thing. I recognize that there are those who prefer the caucus to be an > amorphous blob---in McTim's words, a "zenlike/anarchic" space one can decide > to be in or not "in the moment" depending on the weather, whether they had a > nice lunch and are feeling mellow, etc. But a grouping based on this > shallow a level of commitment to shared values and positions is unlikely to > be able to agree or achieve much of anything, and indeed the caucus has > struggled post-WSIS in part because of it. It's certainly not how I thought > of the caucus when I joined five years ago (suspect the same holds for some > others here), nor is it the zeitgeist of other, more effect ICT-oriented CS > coalitions one could name. Sorry if that sounds insufficiently postmodern. > > Personally, I would favor establishing a separate space for those want to be > in the caucus and do public interest advocacy and leave the gov list for > broader multistakeholder debate and mud slinging. I think this would be > liberating both for people who want to be in a real coalition and for people > who don't and don't want to read angst-ridden sausage making threads. But I > suspect I'm a minority of one on that. > > In any event, while I supported Parminder's suggestion of polling to see who > thinks they're in the caucus and would like to know that myself, I cannot > see how the caucus as it is can follow an election procedure that is sharply > at odds with the explicit wording of its charter. So I'd follow the rules > for the election and afterwards try to see if those who've affirmed their > membership can't have a useful discussion of what they want the caucus to be > and perhaps amend the charter if there's sufficient support for that. > > Cheers, > > Bill > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wcurrie at apc.org Mon Jul 14 12:55:29 2008 From: wcurrie at apc.org (wcurrie at apc.org) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:55:29 +0000 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter Message-ID: <1794199179-1216054534-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1781543909-@bxe195.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Hi all I indicated to Parminder that I support the Charter but I do agree with Bill that we should conduct the election in terms of the Charter without disenfranchising anyone. I do think we need to find a way to both maintain the vigorous debate on the list as well as create a more effective method of finding consensus on key issues in the global policy space from a broadly civil society perspective. I sometimes wonder if it is possible to use a list to find consensus on contested positions, but as Wolfgang's history of the IGC reminds us iit has and can be done. I would support trying to explore this issue of consensus-building after the election and I think we should choose the person who we believe will be the most effective in building consensus in the IGC when it is required to engage with global policy spaces, some of which as Wolfgang identified are coming up in 2009. Willie Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From nyangkweagien at gmail.com Mon Jul 14 13:14:01 2008 From: nyangkweagien at gmail.com (Nyangkwe Agien Aaron) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:14:01 +0200 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <487B2E11.9080908@wzb.eu> References: <487B2E11.9080908@wzb.eu> Message-ID: Jeanette wrote " was even a bit proud of the growing subscriber list and the fact that we got more and more non civil society lurkers who found our debates relevant enough to listen on a regular basis". That is exactly my opinion and I made it on this forum last year. I even beckoned participants to clearly identify themselves as elements that they provide on this debates are news wordy and Journalists do tap from. However, the element of clear and convincing sourcing appeared to be one troubling factor; hence my appeal. "A seperation of the two functions of this list seems a potential death knell to me." Yes Jeanette, you have man and the mad quest for class identity. It has been a conundrum the world over. I do not see why some people are labouring themselves in trying to fizzle in a class element in an all inclusive forum as the Internet governance caucus. Like Russia and China, I veto against such a move and...let slepping dogs lie. Cheers Aaron On 7/14/08, Jeanette Hofmann wrote: > Hi, I agree with what Bill recommends regarding the voting procedure, which > is: > > So I'd follow the rules > > for the election and afterwards try to see if those who've affirmed their > > membership can't have a useful discussion of what they want the caucus to > be > > and perhaps amend the charter if there's sufficient support for that. > > However, I am not in favor of Bill's idea to create a formal seperate space > for the caucus members. This list has always been a somewhat odd hybrid of a > general platform for disussing IG related topics and a civil society space > for agreeing on advocacy positions. When I was co-chairing the caucus, I was > even a bit proud of the growing subscriber list and the fact that we got > more and more non civil society lurkers who found our debates relevant > enough to listen on a regular basis. I wouldn't want to jeopardize the > general platform function of this list. On the contrary, I would do anything > possible to ensure high quality discussions that make it worth listening. A > seperation of the two functions of this list seems a potential death knell > to me. > > jeanette > > > > > William Drake wrote: > > Hi > > > > On 7/13/08 8:06 PM, "Avri Doria" wrote: > > > > > > > - there is no intrinsic harm in asking people to say they agree with > > > the charter. in fac as a step between elections as a way to include > > > mew people as members it is a good idea. > > > > > > > Agree > > > > > > > - The charter requires that the vote be sent to all subscribers and > > > that in the act of voting they (re) affirm their membership as CS and > > > in the IGC as defined in the charter. To use this list as is proposed > > > by the coordinators, to define who can receive a ballot, is in breach > > > of the charter as i read it. > > > > > > > Avri is right that the charter says this, there can be no denying it, it's > > clearly stated. However, I also think it's a real flaw in the charter, > one > > which I wish in retrospect we'd debated more seriously when we wrote the > > thing. I recognize that there are those who prefer the caucus to be an > > amorphous blob---in McTim's words, a "zenlike/anarchic" space one can > decide > > to be in or not "in the moment" depending on the weather, whether they had > a > > nice lunch and are feeling mellow, etc. But a grouping based on this > > shallow a level of commitment to shared values and positions is unlikely > to > > be able to agree or achieve much of anything, and indeed the caucus has > > struggled post-WSIS in part because of it. It's certainly not how I > thought > > of the caucus when I joined five years ago (suspect the same holds for > some > > others here), nor is it the zeitgeist of other, more effect ICT-oriented > CS > > coalitions one could name. Sorry if that sounds insufficiently > postmodern. > > > > Personally, I would favor establishing a separate space for those want to > be > > in the caucus and do public interest advocacy and leave the gov list for > > broader multistakeholder debate and mud slinging. I think this would be > > liberating both for people who want to be in a real coalition and for > people > > who don't and don't want to read angst-ridden sausage making threads. But > I > > suspect I'm a minority of one on that. > > > > In any event, while I supported Parminder's suggestion of polling to see > who > > thinks they're in the caucus and would like to know that myself, I cannot > > see how the caucus as it is can follow an election procedure that is > sharply > > at odds with the explicit wording of its charter. So I'd follow the rules > > for the election and afterwards try to see if those who've affirmed their > > membership can't have a useful discussion of what they want the caucus to > be > > and perhaps amend the charter if there's sufficient support for that. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- Aaron Agien Nyangkwe Journalist/Outcome Mapper Special Assistant To The President Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. ASAFE P.O.Box 5213 Douala-Cameroon Tel. 237 3337 50 22 Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 Fax. 237 3342 29 70 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeanette at wzb.eu Mon Jul 14 13:37:32 2008 From: jeanette at wzb.eu (Jeanette Hofmann) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:37:32 +0100 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <1794199179-1216054534-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1781543909-@bxe195.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1794199179-1216054534-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1781543909-@bxe195.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <487B8EDC.9020901@wzb.eu> Hi, while I would argue against a split of lists between the task of the caucus (developing consensual positions) and the general forum or platform role of this list, I think it would help if we tried to shift the process discussions elsewhere. Sometime back somebody suggested the list Avri initiated in 2006. If this this the wrong space with the wrong charter, then lets create another list for people who are willing to sort out the ambivalences of the caucus charter. I forgot to explain in my earlier mail why I think that Bill's suggestion (to create a new discussion space for those working on common positions) is not a good idea. In my view, mailing lists benefit from an "operative component". I know only few mailing lists worth reading that lack any practical agenda such as sharing information or working on collective goals. The few lists I know happen to be private. I would predict that this list would soon resemble the former DNSO's general assembly list if it lost any concrete purpose. Cynics assert that even now the difference between both lists isn't that noticeable. So, lets not make things worse. jeanette wcurrie at apc.org wrote: > Hi all > > I indicated to Parminder that I support the Charter but I do agree with Bill that we should conduct the election in terms of the Charter without disenfranchising anyone. > > I do think we need to find a way to both maintain the vigorous debate on the list as well as create a more effective method of finding consensus on key issues in the global policy space from a broadly civil society perspective. I sometimes wonder if it is possible to use a list to find consensus on contested positions, but as Wolfgang's history of the IGC reminds us iit has and can be done. > > I would support trying to explore this issue of consensus-building after the election and I think we should choose the person who we believe will be the most effective in building consensus in the IGC when it is required to engage with global policy spaces, some of which as Wolfgang identified are coming up in 2009. > > Willie > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From plzak at arin.net Mon Jul 14 14:24:42 2008 From: plzak at arin.net (Ray Plzak) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:24:42 -0400 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <487B8EDC.9020901@wzb.eu> References: <1794199179-1216054534-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1781543909-@bxe195.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <487B8EDC.9020901@wzb.eu> Message-ID: FWIW - ARIN has two lists. One is the public policy mail list which is open to the community for the discussion of Internet Number Resource policy. The other is the ARIN discuss list which is for members to discuss member matters. The IGC could certainly bifurcate in a similar manner. It just takes a little discipline to keep the list discussions focused on the appropriate topics. Ray > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeanette Hofmann [mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu] > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 13:38 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: Re: [governance] [process] the IGC charter > > Hi, > > while I would argue against a split of lists between the task of the > caucus (developing consensual positions) and the general forum or > platform role of this list, I think it would help if we tried to shift > the process discussions elsewhere. > Sometime back somebody suggested the list Avri initiated in 2006. If > this this the wrong space with the wrong charter, then lets create > another list for people who are willing to sort out the ambivalences of > the caucus charter. > > I forgot to explain in my earlier mail why I think that Bill's > suggestion (to create a new discussion space for those working on > common > positions) is not a good idea. In my view, mailing lists benefit from > an > "operative component". I know only few mailing lists worth reading > that lack any practical agenda such as sharing information or working > on > collective goals. The few lists I know happen to be private. > I would predict that this list would soon resemble the former DNSO's > general assembly list if it lost any concrete purpose. > Cynics assert that even now the difference between both lists isn't > that > noticeable. So, lets not make things worse. > > jeanette > > wcurrie at apc.org wrote: > > Hi all > > > > I indicated to Parminder that I support the Charter but I do agree > with Bill that we should conduct the election in terms of the Charter > without disenfranchising anyone. > > > > I do think we need to find a way to both maintain the vigorous debate > on the list as well as create a more effective method of finding > consensus on key issues in the global policy space from a broadly civil > society perspective. I sometimes wonder if it is possible to use a list > to find consensus on contested positions, but as Wolfgang's history of > the IGC reminds us iit has and can be done. > > > > I would support trying to explore this issue of consensus-building > after the election and I think we should choose the person who we > believe will be the most effective in building consensus in the IGC > when it is required to engage with global policy spaces, some of which > as Wolfgang identified are coming up in 2009. > > > > Willie > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From avri at psg.com Mon Jul 14 14:49:18 2008 From: avri at psg.com (Avri Doria) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:49:18 -0400 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: References: <1794199179-1216054534-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1781543909-@bxe195.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <487B8EDC.9020901@wzb.eu> Message-ID: <9CA85456-4569-4190-A930-166CB53D89FC@psg.com> Hi, I think the idea of a separate list for organizational cruft is a fine idea. I am not one who believes it necessary since i file everything in a separate mailbox for every list until i am ready to read and then read the threads (by subject) i find interesting. Except, of course, on IGC where I read absolutely every word and will continue to do so until relieved of appeals team duties - so I would probably redirect them to same mailbox for simplicity sake, but i do not mind if they come with separate addresses. In the meantime, just adding the [process] token in the subject lines allows those who abhor process discussions to just flush the entire thread. a. On 14 Jul 2008, at 14:24, Ray Plzak wrote: > FWIW - ARIN has two lists. One is the public policy mail list which > is open to the community for the discussion of Internet Number > Resource policy. The other is the ARIN discuss list which is for > members to discuss member matters. The IGC could certainly bifurcate > in a similar manner. It just takes a little discipline to keep the > list discussions focused on the appropriate topics. > > Ray > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jeanette Hofmann [mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu] >> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 13:38 >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org >> Subject: Re: [governance] [process] the IGC charter >> >> Hi, >> >> while I would argue against a split of lists between the task of the >> caucus (developing consensual positions) and the general forum or >> platform role of this list, I think it would help if we tried to >> shift >> the process discussions elsewhere. >> Sometime back somebody suggested the list Avri initiated in 2006. If >> this this the wrong space with the wrong charter, then lets create >> another list for people who are willing to sort out the >> ambivalences of >> the caucus charter. >> >> I forgot to explain in my earlier mail why I think that Bill's >> suggestion (to create a new discussion space for those working on >> common >> positions) is not a good idea. In my view, mailing lists benefit from >> an >> "operative component". I know only few mailing lists worth reading >> that lack any practical agenda such as sharing information or working >> on >> collective goals. The few lists I know happen to be private. >> I would predict that this list would soon resemble the former DNSO's >> general assembly list if it lost any concrete purpose. >> Cynics assert that even now the difference between both lists isn't >> that >> noticeable. So, lets not make things worse. >> >> jeanette >> >> wcurrie at apc.org wrote: >>> Hi all >>> >>> I indicated to Parminder that I support the Charter but I do agree >> with Bill that we should conduct the election in terms of the Charter >> without disenfranchising anyone. >>> >>> I do think we need to find a way to both maintain the vigorous >>> debate >> on the list as well as create a more effective method of finding >> consensus on key issues in the global policy space from a broadly >> civil >> society perspective. I sometimes wonder if it is possible to use a >> list >> to find consensus on contested positions, but as Wolfgang's history >> of >> the IGC reminds us iit has and can be done. >>> >>> I would support trying to explore this issue of consensus-building >> after the election and I think we should choose the person who we >> believe will be the most effective in building consensus in the IGC >> when it is required to engage with global policy spaces, some of >> which >> as Wolfgang identified are coming up in 2009. >>> >>> Willie >>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.cpsr.org >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >>> >>> For all list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From dan.oppermann at gmail.com Mon Jul 14 15:03:18 2008 From: dan.oppermann at gmail.com (Daniel Oppermann) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:03:18 -0300 Subject: AW: [governance] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FDD@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <539321.26376.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FDD@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <487BA2F6.10203@googlemail.com> Wolfgang, that sounds very good. Are you going to send out more information about the summer schools on this list? Kleinwächter schrieb: > David: > > One would presume it is the northern hemisphere summer being referred to. But there are TWO summer solstices. Us folk in the southern hemisphere have one too. > > Wolfgang > > This is one reason why will have TWO "Summer Schools on Internet Governance" (SSIG) in 2009. One (in July) in Meissen/Germany and one (in March) in Buenos Aires/Argentina :-))))) > > Cheers > w > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 13 20:54:13 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:54:13 -0700 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter References: <1794199179-1216054534-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1781543909-@bxe195.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <487B8EDC.9020901@wzb.eu> Message-ID: <487AA3B5.4F08CC8D@ix.netcom.com> Jeanette and all, No need for seperate lists at all. So I would be against this. Jeanette Hofmann wrote: > Hi, > > while I would argue against a split of lists between the task of the > caucus (developing consensual positions) and the general forum or > platform role of this list, I think it would help if we tried to shift > the process discussions elsewhere. > Sometime back somebody suggested the list Avri initiated in 2006. If > this this the wrong space with the wrong charter, then lets create > another list for people who are willing to sort out the ambivalences of > the caucus charter. > > I forgot to explain in my earlier mail why I think that Bill's > suggestion (to create a new discussion space for those working on common > positions) is not a good idea. In my view, mailing lists benefit from an > "operative component". I know only few mailing lists worth reading > that lack any practical agenda such as sharing information or working on > collective goals. The few lists I know happen to be private. > I would predict that this list would soon resemble the former DNSO's > general assembly list if it lost any concrete purpose. > Cynics assert that even now the difference between both lists isn't that > noticeable. So, lets not make things worse. > > jeanette > > wcurrie at apc.org wrote: > > Hi all > > > > I indicated to Parminder that I support the Charter but I do agree with Bill that we should conduct the election in terms of the Charter without disenfranchising anyone. > > > > I do think we need to find a way to both maintain the vigorous debate on the list as well as create a more effective method of finding consensus on key issues in the global policy space from a broadly civil society perspective. I sometimes wonder if it is possible to use a list to find consensus on contested positions, but as Wolfgang's history of the IGC reminds us iit has and can be done. > > > > I would support trying to explore this issue of consensus-building after the election and I think we should choose the person who we believe will be the most effective in building consensus in the IGC when it is required to engage with global policy spaces, some of which as Wolfgang identified are coming up in 2009. > > > > Willie > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Mon Jul 14 21:59:38 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:29:38 +0530 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <487B8EDC.9020901@wzb.eu> Message-ID: <20080715020053.5239EE19D9@smtp3.electricembers.net> Hi Everyone I am not intervening is this discussion on_the_issue_of_the_voting_process because, as I mentioned in an earlier email, some of these discussions have been confusing list participants a lot in terms of the primary task being done at this stage which is to prepare a members list as per the charter. I have every intention to uphold the charter, in the best possible manner, in the matter of voting process as well, reconciling any apparent contradiction as they may appear to different people. My proposal for this will be presented after the 17th when this round of membership list building will be completed. For many reasons that I have argued a few times earlier, and will mention again in my email after the 17th, it will help us greatly at this stage if we see these two issues 'separately' - (1) the issue of preparing a members list as per the charter and (2) voting process for electing a new co-coordinator, also as per the charter. Thanks Parminder > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeanette Hofmann [mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu] > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 11:08 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: Re: [governance] [process] the IGC charter > > Hi, > > while I would argue against a split of lists between the task of the > caucus (developing consensual positions) and the general forum or > platform role of this list, I think it would help if we tried to shift > the process discussions elsewhere. > Sometime back somebody suggested the list Avri initiated in 2006. If > this this the wrong space with the wrong charter, then lets create > another list for people who are willing to sort out the ambivalences of > the caucus charter. > > I forgot to explain in my earlier mail why I think that Bill's > suggestion (to create a new discussion space for those working on common > positions) is not a good idea. In my view, mailing lists benefit from an > "operative component". I know only few mailing lists worth reading > that lack any practical agenda such as sharing information or working on > collective goals. The few lists I know happen to be private. > I would predict that this list would soon resemble the former DNSO's > general assembly list if it lost any concrete purpose. > Cynics assert that even now the difference between both lists isn't that > noticeable. So, lets not make things worse. > > jeanette > > wcurrie at apc.org wrote: > > Hi all > > > > I indicated to Parminder that I support the Charter but I do agree with > Bill that we should conduct the election in terms of the Charter without > disenfranchising anyone. > > > > I do think we need to find a way to both maintain the vigorous debate on > the list as well as create a more effective method of finding consensus on > key issues in the global policy space from a broadly civil society > perspective. I sometimes wonder if it is possible to use a list to find > consensus on contested positions, but as Wolfgang's history of the IGC > reminds us iit has and can be done. > > > > I would support trying to explore this issue of consensus-building after > the election and I think we should choose the person who we believe will > be the most effective in building consensus in the IGC when it is required > to engage with global policy spaces, some of which as Wolfgang identified > are coming up in 2009. > > > > Willie > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From avri at psg.com Mon Jul 14 23:36:12 2008 From: avri at psg.com (Avri Doria) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:36:12 -0400 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <20080715020053.5239EE19D9@smtp3.electricembers.net> References: <20080715020053.5239EE19D9@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <696C1801-5EC4-47AB-B933-69E093F26464@psg.com> On 14 Jul 2008, at 21:59, Parminder wrote: > primary task being > done at this stage which is to prepare a members list as per the > charter. can you explain this? which charter requirement are you fulfilling? and why at this point when the election is just around the corner? thanks a. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 14 03:54:37 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 00:54:37 -0700 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter References: <20080715020053.5239EE19D9@smtp3.electricembers.net> <696C1801-5EC4-47AB-B933-69E093F26464@psg.com> Message-ID: <487B063D.D0A3C484@ix.netcom.com> Avri and all, I believe Parminder already has. Avri Doria wrote: > On 14 Jul 2008, at 21:59, Parminder wrote: > > > primary task being > > done at this stage which is to prepare a members list as per the > > charter. > > can you explain this? which charter requirement are you fulfilling? > and why at this point when the election is just around the corner? > > thanks > > a. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From dogwallah at gmail.com Tue Jul 15 04:09:24 2008 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:09:24 +0300 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: References: <45E7C948-6FFC-45F6-94A0-BC4A6B538F01@psg.com> Message-ID: Hello Bill, On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:41 PM, William Drake wrote: > Hi > > > Avri is right that the charter says this, there can be no denying it, it's > clearly stated. Parminder hasn't denied it, he is simply going to disregard it, thereby disenfranchising those of us who do not agree with him. > > In any event, while I supported Parminder's suggestion of polling to see who > thinks they're in the caucus and would like to know that myself, We will know this AFTER the vote. I cannot > see how the caucus as it is can follow an election procedure that is sharply > at odds with the explicit wording of its charter. Agreed, this has been my point all along. -- Cheers, McTim mctim.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Tue Jul 15 04:36:40 2008 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:36:40 +0200 Subject: [governance] ICANN Studienkreis Meeting in Helsinki References: <539321.26376.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <89EFCCE4-17B5-41A4-B593-EE269439AF97@psg.com> <579B56EB-4E83-4C29-AC0B-E404F8806C29@internet.law.pro> <45E7C948-6FFC-45F6-94A0-BC4A6B538F01@psg.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FE9@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FFD@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Dear friends, the 9th meeting of the ICANN Studienkreis takes place in Helsinki, September 4 - 5, 2008. This years subject is "Internet Governance and Domain Names: Broader Cyberspace, Mobile Inernet and New Market Opportunities". The first day will have two Panels: One on Internet development in Finland and one on the future institutional arrangements on Internet Governance, including the Internet Governance Forum (IGF), the JPA follow up and the planned At Large Summit. On the second day various Panels will discuss issues like new TLDs, iDNs, IPv6 and the future of the Internet. The iDN panel will discuss the special case of Russia with leading experts from Moscow. Thanks to the sponsors, there is no conference fee. Registration takes place on a first come, first served basis via www.icann-studienkreis.net. Due to the sie of the conference hall we have a limitation up to 100 participants. Fell free to distribute the invitation as widely as possible. Best regards Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Draft Programme 08 2008.doc Type: application/msword Size: 167936 bytes Desc: Draft Programme 08 2008.doc URL: From ajp at glocom.ac.jp Tue Jul 15 05:00:54 2008 From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:00:54 +0900 Subject: [governance] ICANN Studienkreis Meeting in Helsinki In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FFD@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <539321.26376.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <89EFCCE4-17B5-41A4-B593-EE269439AF97@psg.com> <579B56EB-4E83-4C29-AC0B-E404F8806C29@internet.law.pro> <45E7C948-6FFC-45F6-94A0-BC4A6B538F01@psg.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FE9@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8425FFD@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: Dear Wolfgang, I'm always envious of those who can attend your meetings, I never seem to be in Europe at the right time! As the meeting is free, could you arrange for a recording of the sessions to be put on the web. Simple audio file would be great, along with any presentation materials such archives would provide a valuable record. Best, Adam At 10:36 AM +0200 7/15/08, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: >Dear friends, > >the 9th meeting of the ICANN Studienkreis takes >place in Helsinki, September 4 - 5, 2008. This >years subject is "Internet Governance and Domain >Names: Broader Cyberspace, Mobile Inernet and >New Market Opportunities". > >The first day will have two Panels: One on >Internet development in Finland and one on the >future institutional arrangements on Internet >Governance, including the Internet Governance >Forum (IGF), the JPA follow up and the planned >At Large Summit. On the second day various >Panels will discuss issues like new TLDs, iDNs, >IPv6 and the future of the Internet. The iDN >panel will discuss the special case of Russia >with leading experts from Moscow. > >Thanks to the sponsors, there is no conference >fee. Registration takes place on a first come, >first served basis via >www.icann-studienkreis.net. Due to the sie of >the conference hall we have a limitation up to >100 participants. Fell free to distribute the >invitation as widely as possible. > >Best regards > >Wolfgang >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org >To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >Content-type: application/msword; name="Draft Programme 08 2008.doc" >Content-disposition: attachment; filename="Draft Programme 08 2008.doc" >Content-description: Draft Programme 08 2008.doc > >Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:Draft >Programme 08 2008.doc (WDBN/«IC») (005E9DF5) ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ginger at paque.net Tue Jul 15 09:43:41 2008 From: ginger at paque.net (Ginger Paque) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:13:41 -0430 Subject: [governance] DiploFoundation Call For Applications: Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme for INDIA 2008 (Plain Text email) Message-ID: <487ca9f7.1ba67e0a.0c68.6eff@mx.google.com> Hello everybody! We have an exciting new program starting up for IG Capacity Building in India. Please help us get this information to anyone who might be interested. Direct Link: http://www.diplomacy.edu/ig/IGCBP/display.asp?Topic=Call-India News Article: http://www.diplomacy.edu/DiploNews/display.asp?Topic=Issue123 Thanks and saludos, Ginger DIPLO FOUNDATION INTERNET GOVERNANCE AND POLICY Call for Applications Internet Governance Capacity Building Programme for INDIA 2008 DiploFoundation (http://www.diplomacy.edu) and the National Internet Exchange of India (NIXI) (http://www.nixi.in/) are currently accepting applications for the Online Capacity Building Training in Internet Governance for India. This online training is designed to improve Internet Governance (IG) related knowledge and skills for participants. The training also facilitates community-building among individuals with different backgrounds. The Programme The programme offers places for 30 young professionals in India from diverse stakeholder backgrounds in IG-related fields. The programme will start on 1 September 2008, and will last for 10 weeks. The training is conducted entirely online and in English. Participation takes place through an online learning platform enabling a variety of interactive learning and communication tools and encouraging sharing of knowledge and experiences. Participants are divided in two groups of 15 participants, each, under the guidance of certified Diplo online tutors and with support from trained professionals from the region. The ten most successful participants will be awarded a Policy Fellowship from NIXI. The fellowship from will facilitate participation at the Internet Governance Forum in Hyderabad, India, December 2008, by sponsoring five days of bed and breakfast, and a stipend of ten thousand rupees to cover travel and other costs. The selected participants may present findings of their research at some parallel events at the IGF. Timeline § 10 July - call for applicants § 5 August - application deadline § 15 August - selection results § 1 September - start of the course § 15 November - final evaluation Fee While the course is subsidized by NIXI and DiploFoundation, there is a nominal fee of Rupees 1000 (Approx. USD 25) per participant (to be paid after the selection). Deadline The deadline for applications is 5 August 2008, by midnight UTC/GMT. How to Apply For further information and to apply, please visit the DiploFoundation IG website at http://www.diplomacy.edu/ig/IGCBP/display.asp?Topic=Call-India . Do not hesitate to contact us at ig at diplomacy.edu . ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jberleur at info.fundp.ac.be Tue Jul 15 12:57:12 2008 From: jberleur at info.fundp.ac.be (Jacques Berleur) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:57:12 +0200 Subject: [governance] IGC membership list In-Reply-To: <20080709112010.C965EE2880@smtp3.electricembers.net> References: <20080709112010.C965EE2880@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: Dear Parminder, Sorry answering late to your email of July 1st. I read the IGC Charter and I agree. Please keep me also on the list. But I agree with one of the member suggesting to make a distinction between emails on procedural matters and those on information and content. Sometimes, it becomes nearly impossible to find time to follow the discussion when it is not to read the messages!!! Many thanks, Jacques ************************************************ Prof. Jacques BERLEUR Facultes Universitaires Notre-Dame de la Paix Rue de Bruxelles, 61 Phone: +32 81 72-4976 Mobile: +32 (0)475 548372 5000 NAMUR Fax: +32 81 72 4967 BELGIUM mailto:jberleur at info.fundp.ac.be URL: http://www.info.fundp.ac.be/~jbl/ ************************************************ > > >Dear List Participants, > > >This is a reminder for responding to the email sent to you regarding >preparing a members list for the IGC. > >Those who wish to be in the members list but have not yet responded >may please respond to this email before 17th July. > >Please do indicate that you have read IGC's charter at >http://www.igcaucus.org/IGC-charter_final-061014.html >and are willing to subscribe to it and accept IGC's membership. > >Please also give your full name in your response email. Any further >details like any affiliation etc are optional. > >Thanks > >Parminder > >PS: > >1. It is preferred that you send your response to my ID and not >to the list. >2. Please ignore this email if you have already responded to my >earlier email on this issue. > > > > >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org >To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Tue Jul 15 22:38:38 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] San Francisco officials locked out of network Message-ID: Irate sysadmin locks San Francisco officials out of network By John Leyden Published Tuesday 15th July 2008 15:15 GMT Art ref.: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/15/sf_bofh_sabotage_charges/ Print: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/15/sf_bofh_sabotage_charges/print.html -- Hapless municipal bosses in San Francisco have been locked out of their network by a disgruntled sysadmin charged with computer sabotage. Terry Childs, 43 and of Pittsburg, California, was held on remand over the weekend pending the outcome of committal proceedings (an arraignment) on Tuesday where he faces four counts of computer tampering. Meanwhile his former bosses were unable to access San Francisco's new multimillion-dollar FiberWAN (Wide Area Network). The network provides access to confidential databases including payroll files and law enforcement documents. Childs allegedly created a password that gave him exclusive access to the system. Pass codes he gave to police failed to work. Even under threat of arrest Childs failed to cough up the goods, prompting officers to take him into custody on Sunday. The sysadmin, who draws a basic salary of around $126,000, has worked for the Department of Technology for around five years. Childs was recently the target of disciplinary action over his allegedly poor performance at work. The San Francisco Chronicle quotes (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/14/BAOS11P1M5.DTL&tsp=1) anonymous city officials in support of a theory that Childs rigged the system as an "insurance policy" against getting fired. At a press conference on Monday, city officials said they were making progress in regaining control of the system, which is up and running but inaccessible. Investigators reckon Child started making changes to the system around a month ago on 20 June. They claim that undoing the damage he allegedly caused via the denial of service attack could cost "millions" of dollars. Even taking into account lost productivity this estimates seems high and probably represent an attempt to up the ante in the prosecution of Childs in the hope that he'll back down when faced by the prospect of more serious charges. The San Francisco Chronicle reports city officials' fear that Childs may have an accomplice capable of further damaging the system even as Childs cools his heels in jail. So far police have found nothing to back up a theory that some type of electronic device might feature in such a putative attack. Childs' bail has been set at $5m, The Mercury News adds (http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_9882976). Nathan Ballard, a spokesman for San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, said he was "confident that [the Department of Technology] is doing everything necessary to maintain the integrity of the city's computer networks." [Ed: where's Dirty Harry when you need him?] Ron Vinson, chief administrative officer for the Department of Technology, said city officials were "working around the clock" to restore access. Ironically, Childs received an additional salary payment of $22,534 last year for serving as an on-call trouble shooter, The San Francisco Chronicle adds. --- -30- Love-it ... 'The logical song' by Supertramp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBAasek8NR4 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ajp at glocom.ac.jp Wed Jul 16 01:59:08 2008 From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:59:08 +0900 Subject: [governance] workshops ***important*** Message-ID: The MAG will start trying to evaluate and select workshops. If you are involved in organizing a workshop please look at and make sure information is up to date, and that any merging you have offered is reflected, etc. If you find problems, please contact the secretariat immediately, cc me if you wish. Not much time, do it now please. Please let me know about any offers you have made about merging, of request for more information about how to merge that aren't reflected. The secretariat has suggested some general criteria to be used by MAG members when considering workshops, these are: * relevance to the agenda of the meeting; * diversity of views and perspectives; * multi-stakeholder approach; * geographical diversity; * involvement of developing countries; * relevance with regard to the cross cutting priorities of development and capacity building. And whether the organizing group held workshops in the past and completed a report will also be a consideration (or it should be.) Requests to merge have not been very successful, so if we are to reduce the number of workshops, as seemed to be the general sense of contributions made after both Athens and Rio then the MAG's going to have to start saying no. And that's not an easy process easy (and probably not much fun either.) The schedule has slots for just over 40 workshops and there are 85 on the website at the moment. Initially 101 workshop proposals were received, so can see merging hasn't been very successful. Thanks, Adam ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Wed Jul 16 02:14:52 2008 From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:14:52 +0200 Subject: [governance] [process] the IGC charter In-Reply-To: <20080715020053.5239EE19D9@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: Hi Paminder, On 7/15/08 3:59 AM, "Parminder" wrote: > I have every intention to uphold the charter, in the best possible manner, > in the matter of voting process as well, reconciling any apparent > contradiction as they may appear to different people. Excellent, glad to hear we're unanimously on the same page and can unblock the process and get the ballot sent out per the charter. Can you remind me please, is it the case that you're co-coordinator for another year and we are choosing a partner for a two year term? Ian and David are the two candidates, no other expressions of interest received or expected? Should we have candidate statements of interest to contemplate? When we're over this hump it would be high time to move on to matters existential and have a focused discussion about the character, purpose, and modalities of the caucus going forward. I guess we'll have to do this here, even though only one sixth of the subscribers have previously said they're in the caucus and some of the others (probably speaking for a silent majority) have clearly indicated that they don't want to read our sturm und drang. Not sure labeling labeling messages is much of a solution to that, but so it goes... Cheers, Bill ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 15 04:20:01 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 01:20:01 -0700 Subject: [governance] San Francisco officials locked out of network References: Message-ID: <487C5DB1.3E8D6B13@ix.netcom.com> Yehuda and all, Yes read this earlier today. It's clear that more or this will be occuring as sysadmin's are all too often required to to more with less or without the tools they need and should have to effectively do their jobs properly. Secondly, as a long ago sysadmin myself, I can attest that network design and configuration such as San Francisco's are weak to poor. Unfortunately this fellow went way too far in mis-using his position in attempting fraud it appears, but let's not convict this fellow as there is likely much more to this story than we know now. Yehuda Katz wrote: > Irate sysadmin locks San Francisco officials out of network > > By John Leyden > Published Tuesday 15th July 2008 15:15 GMT > > Art ref.: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/15/sf_bofh_sabotage_charges/ > > Print: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/15/sf_bofh_sabotage_charges/print.html > > -- > > Hapless municipal bosses in San Francisco have been locked out of their network > by a disgruntled sysadmin charged with computer sabotage. > > Terry Childs, 43 and of Pittsburg, California, was held on remand over the > weekend pending the outcome of committal proceedings (an arraignment) on > Tuesday where he faces four counts of computer tampering. Meanwhile his former > bosses were unable to access San Francisco's new multimillion-dollar FiberWAN > (Wide Area Network). The network provides access to confidential databases > including payroll files and law enforcement documents. > > Childs allegedly created a password that gave him exclusive access to the > system. Pass codes he gave to police failed to work. Even under threat of > arrest Childs failed to cough up the goods, prompting officers to take him into > custody on Sunday. > > The sysadmin, who draws a basic salary of around $126,000, has worked for the > Department of Technology for around five years. Childs was recently the target > of disciplinary action over his allegedly poor performance at work. The San > Francisco Chronicle quotes > (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/14/BAOS11P1M5.DTL&tsp=1) > anonymous city officials in support of a theory that Childs rigged the system > as an "insurance policy" against getting fired. > > At a press conference on Monday, city officials said they were making progress > in regaining control of the system, which is up and running but inaccessible. > Investigators reckon Child started making changes to the system around a month > ago on 20 June. They claim that undoing the damage he allegedly caused via the > denial of service attack could cost "millions" of dollars. Even taking into > account lost productivity this estimates seems high and probably represent an > attempt to up the ante in the prosecution of Childs in the hope that he'll back > down when faced by the prospect of more serious charges. > > The San Francisco Chronicle reports city officials' fear that Childs may have > an accomplice capable of further damaging the system even as Childs cools his > heels in jail. So far police have found nothing to back up a theory that some > type of electronic device might feature in such a putative attack. Childs' bail > has been set at $5m, The Mercury News adds > (http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_9882976). > > Nathan Ballard, a spokesman for San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, said he was > "confident that [the Department of Technology] is doing everything necessary to > maintain the integrity of the city's computer networks." [Ed: where's Dirty > Harry when you need him?] > > Ron Vinson, chief administrative officer for the Department of Technology, said > city officials were "working around the clock" to restore access. Ironically, > Childs received an additional salary payment of $22,534 last year for serving > as an on-call trouble shooter, The San Francisco Chronicle adds. > > --- > -30- > > Love-it ... > 'The logical song' by Supertramp > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBAasek8NR4 > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From bfausett at internet.law.pro Thu Jul 17 01:17:49 2008 From: bfausett at internet.law.pro (Bret Fausett) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:17:49 -0700 Subject: [governance] workshops ***important*** In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001401c8e7cc$759b0f20$c501000a@CCKLLP.local> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7m Type: application/x-pkcs7-mime Size: 7260 bytes Desc: not available URL: From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Thu Jul 17 23:12:00 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] How much is a unit of cloud computing? Message-ID: How much is a unit of cloud computing? Posted by Phil Wainewright July 16th, 2008 Art Ref.: http://blogs.zdnet.com/SAAS/?p=552 Print: http://blogs.zdnet.com/SAAS/?p=552# - As I make my way to tonight’s heavily over-subscribed Cloud Computing Camp in London, I’m mulling an important aspect of cloud business models that I doubt will get much airtime tonight. People who talk about computing as a utility miss a vital point that Dan Farber brought up more than three years ago: “… an industry standard definition of CPU per hour usage doesn’t exist. There is no equivalent to kilowatt hours or the price of a barrel of oil for CPU usage.” Although Amazon EC2 subsequently took us a few steps closer than the Sun Grid offering that prompted Dan’s remarks, the fact remains that cloud computing is nothing like the electricity grid. Cloud computing isn’t a tradeable commodity. Each cloud provider operates its own proprietary infrastructure and every one of them has their own set of pricing plans. We can measure bandwidth in MB and storage in GB, but there’s no standard unit of computing — providers measure hours or seconds of processing, but each processor configuration is different — making it all-but-impossible to compare the cost of hosting your application from one provider to another. I guess it’s premature to expect such standards to emerge so early in the life of a nascent industry. Many providers are still evolving their own pricing models. One such case that’s been interesting to watch is Mosso, the Rackspace subsidiary that relaunched as a pay-as-you-grow cloud computing service in February (disclosure: Mosso has given me a free trial account to test its service, which I’ve just started working with for a couple of my own sites and will write up once I’m further along with it). Last month, Mosso introduced a concept that, who knows, might provide the basis for a standard unit of computing. It has come up with the notion of a ‘compute cycle’ based on looking at the monthly capacity delivered by a typical 1.2Ghz server under average load, and has defined that as 10,000 compute cycles. This allows Mosso to calculate the processing time, disk I/O and memory that equates to a single cycle, and the provider measures this in real-time so that its customers can monitor their consumption during the month and it can bill them for what they’ve used at the end of the month. The 10,000 figure conveniently maps to Mosso’s $100-per-month base-level monthly charge, and additional usage scales up at the same 1-cent-per-compute-cycle rate. The background to the creation of Mosso’s compute cycle is an interesting story. When it first introduced its pay-as-you-grow pricing model in February, customers were very unhappy about its proposals and it was rapidly forced to backtrack. Its initial proposal had been to measure processing by simply counting requests, on the assumption that this was easy to explain and measure. But, as Mosso co-founder Todd Morey told me last month, “Not all systems are created equal.” Customers with largely static websites pointed out that thousands of requests for a static HTML page have a different compute profile than the same number of requests for a dynamic PHP page. Others argued — and this was an important consideration from Mosso’s point of view — that its proposed model that didn’t reward customers for architecting sites to have a lean compute profile. “It’s a more complicated effort to calculate compute, but it’s certainly worth it,” Morey summed up. “We needed some mechanism that measures your compute consumption.” There are still some tweaks to be made, so Mosso won’t be billing customers using the new model until September. A handful of customers are experiencing what it calls “abnormally high compute cycle usage” and the company has promised to investigate why this is occuring so that it can make sure the model is reporting usage accurately in those cases. But Mosso believes it has found a strong formula that it can use for a range of services as it expands its offerings in the future. “[Customers] can consume all these different services without having lots of different line items on [their] statements,” said Morey. Whether other cloud computing providers will adopt a similar model of course is another question. For example, Amazon could move away from charging different prices for different types of machine image to a single compute-cycle price. If providers took the further step of standardizing on an agreed measure of compute-cycle, then customers could directly compare prices across different infrastructures — and perhaps ultimately consume computing from a true utility grid in which providers compete to offer the most competitive value. But perhaps that’s a step too far towards commoditization. -- Article Links: A further look into utility computing and transparent pricing http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=1001 What price utility computing for the Web 2.0 era? http://blogs.zdnet.com/SAAS/?p=206 Rackspace, as a service http://blogs.zdnet.com/SAAS/?p=464 --- -30-____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sat Jul 19 03:03:26 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:33:26 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGC members list Message-ID: <20080719070438.E6182A6CA3@smtp2.electricembers.net> Hi All Enclosed is a list of 114 IGC members who have accepted membership of the caucus as per the charter's condition, i.e. subscription to the charter. To quote the charter 'the members of the IGC are individuals, acting in personal capacity, who subscribe to the charter of the caucus'. I will keep this list open for 2 more days, for anyone to comment on his or her exclusion or inclusion. After that, the list will be posted as the current IGC members list. The list, however, remains open for inclusion of new members at all times. It is quite a task to keep track of all the emails from the members, and consequently there could be inaccuracies in the list which please point out. I may especially have inadvertently missed including someone's name even after a confirmation email was sent to me. Please look your name up in the list and inform me about any such mistake. I am also taking the liberty to include the names of three members regarding whom there is enough indication that they do subscribe to the charter but who, apparently, to my best understanding, did not respond to my email due to difference in our understanding of some technical issues regarding IGC processes. I will include the names of Avri, McTim and Jeanette to this list before I put it out finally in 2 days. To do so was also suggested by Tapani on the list, to which suggestion I agree. I will also add to this list more information about those members who have volunteered additional information. Parminder CS - IGC Members List as of 18 July 2008 (tentative) 1 Rabia Abdelkrim Chikh 2 Veronica Cretu 3 Philippe Goujon 4 Rudi Vansnick 5 Ralf Bendrath 6 Erick Iriarte Ahon 7 Karen Banks 8 Sheraan Amod 9 Tapani Tarvainen 10 Md. Hakikur Rahman 11 Jac SM Kee 12 Izumi Aizu 13 Francoise Massit-Follea 14 Dave Kissoondoyal 15 William Drake 16 Al Alegre 17 Mawaki Chango 18 Ahmed Swapan Mahmood 19 Max Senges 20 Abiodun Jagun 21 Kevin Choi 22 Ching Chiao 23 Sylvia Caras 24 Michael Gurstein 25 Hempal Shrestha 26 Hong Xue 27 Koven Ronald 28 Jeffrey A. Williams 29 Gao Mosweu 30 Nnenna Nwakanma 31 Iffat Rose Gill 32 Ian Peter 33 Jacqueline A. Morris 34 Tijani Ben Jemaa 35 Robert Guerra 36 Graciela Selaimen 37 Raquel Gatto 38 Divina Frau-Meigs 39 Schombe Baudouin 40 Wolfgang Benedek 41 Roshni Nuggehalli 42 Gurumurthy Kasinathan 43 Vivek Vaidyanathan 44 Lyman Chapin 45 Virginia (Ginger) Paque 46 Pablo Accuosto 47 Garth Graham 48 Danny Butt 49 Jeremy Malcolm 50 Josep Xercavins i Valls 51 David Allen 52 Hans Klein 53 Michael Froomkin 54 Janna Quitney Anderson 55 John Mathiason 56 Milton Mueller 57 Jeremy Hunsinger 58 Hanane Boujemi 59 Iliya Bazlyankov. 60 Vittorio Bertola 61 Patrick Vande Walle 62 Yuri Hohlov 63 Daniel Pimienta 64 Olugbenga Adeyemo 65 Carolina Aguerre 66 Ricardo Ruiz 67 Charles Mok 68 Fouad Bajwa 69 Siranush Vardanyan 70 Gbenga Sesan 71 Mr. Solomon Gizaw 72 Mr. Hartmut Glaser 73 Omar Kaminski 74 Matthias C. Kettemann 75 Magaly Pazello 76 Philip Napoli 77 Jacques Berleur 78 Wolfgang Kleinwaechter 79 William Currie 80 Anriette Esterhuysen 81 Robin Gross 82 Ken Lohento 83 Renate Bloem 84 Meryem Marzouki 85 Giacomo Mazzone 86 Lisa Horner 87 Carlton Samuels 88 Maja Andjelkovic 89 Nyangkwe Agien Aaron 90 Brenden Kuerbis 91 Shaila Mistry Rao 92 Bret Fausett 93 Adam Peake 94 Carlos Afonso 95 Raymond A Plzak 96 Lluis Miret 97 Derrick L. Cogburn 98 Lee McKnight 99 Anita Gurumurthy 100 Parminder Jeet Singh 101 David Goldstein 102 Jeremy Shtern 103 Shahzad Ahmad 104 Valeria Betancourt 105 Y J Park 106 Norbert Klein 107 Rudi Rusdiah 108 Daniel Oppermann 109 Yehuda Katz 110 Qusai AlShatti 111 Peter Hollings 112 Louis Pouzin 113 Tricia Wang 114 Sivasubramanian Muthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IGC members list 180708.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 22556 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au Sat Jul 19 04:21:33 2008 From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] European Dialogue on Internet Governance Message-ID: <102789.78844.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, I don't think this has been posted before... Cheers David European Dialogue on Internet Governance Strasbourg, 20-21 October 2008 Consultations before the 3rd IGF in Hyderabad with a particular emphasis on : “Fostering security, privacy and openness on the internet” European actors interested in Internet Governance issues will meet in Strasburg on 20-21 October 2008, to discuss openly and freely their ideas, experiences and concerns in a fully multi-stakeholder format. The main themes on the Agenda of the 3rd IGF to be held in Hyderabad in December will be addressed with a particular emphasis on issues surrounding security, privacy, and openness on the Internet (concerns such as cutting Internet access, the privacy and security of popular internet banking and commerce applications, etc). Other themes will include universal access, as well as managing Internet critical resources. This Dialogue on Internet Governance intends to highlight in particular the specific European approach to the interplay between security, privacy, and openness: they will not be discussed as concepts that only conflict with each other and therefore need to be “balanced” but rather as principles that can be fostered simultaneously and even mutually reinforce each other. The main focus will be put on identifying – based on European experience – situations and solutions that reflect and respond to these issues and challenges. Taking into account the rapid evolution of the Internet’s uses and applications, the identification of emerging issues will also be a cross-cutting component of this European dialogue and exchange. There will be no agreed formal outcomes from this event. The primary aim will be to promote open dialogue between all participating stakeholders in order to prepare their participation in and contributions to the IGF in Hyderabad in December 2008. It will also explore possible modalities for holding a European IGF in 2009. The dialogue is open to all interested stakeholders and will take place in the premises of the Council of Europe in Strasbourg, France. Contacts: Thomas Schneider, OFCOM, Biel-Bienne, Switzerland (thomas.schneider at bakom.admin.ch) Lee Hibbard, Council of Europe, Strasbourg, France (lee.hibbard at coe.int) http://eurodig.org/ --------- David Goldstein address: 4/3 Abbott Street COOGEE NSW 2034 AUSTRALIA email: Goldstein_David @yahoo.com.au phone: +61 418 228 605 (mobile); +61 2 9665 5773 (home) "Every time you use fossil fuels, you're adding to the problem. Every time you forgo fossil fuels, you're being part of the solution" - Dr Tim Flannery Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Sun Jul 20 11:48:34 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:48:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] The Story Behind San Francisco's Rogue Network Admin Message-ID: The Story Behind San Francisco's Rogue Network Admin Paul Venezia, InfoWorld PC World / Business Center / Security / Data Protection / Saturday, July 19, 2008 5:20 AM PDT Art. ref.: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/148669/the_story_behind_san_franciscos_rogue_network_admin.html - The Story Behind San Francisco's Rogue Network Admin: Last Sunday, Terry Childs, a network administrator employed by the City of San Francisco, was arrested and taken into custody, charged with four counts of computer tampering. He remains in jail, held on US$5 million bail. News reports have depicted a rogue admin taking a network hostage for reasons unknown, but new information from a source close to the situation presents a different picture. In posts to my blog, I postulated about what might have occurred. Based on the small amount of public information, I guessed that the situation revolved around the network itself, not the data or the servers. A quote from a city official that Cisco was getting involved seemed to back that up, so I assumed that Childs must have locked down the routers and switches that form the FiberWAN network, and nobody but Childs knew the logins. If this were true, then regaining control over those network components would cause some service disruption, but would hardly constitute the "millions of dollars in damages" that city representatives feared, according to news reports. Apparently, I wasn't far off the mark. In response to one of by blog posts, a source with direct knowledge of the City of San Francisco's IT infrastructure and of Childs himself offered to tell me everything he knew about the situation, under condition that he remain anonymous. I agreed, and within an hour, a long e-mail arrived in my in box, painting a very detailed picture of the events. Based on this information, the case of Terry Childs appears to be much more -- and much less -- than previously reported. A Man and His Network: It seems that Terry Childs is a very intelligent man. According to my source, Childs holds a Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert certification, the highest level of certification offered by Cisco. He has worked in the city's IT department for five years, and during that time has become simply indispensible. Although Childs was not the head architect for the city's FiberWAN network, he is the one, and only one, that built the network, and was tasked with handling most of the implementation, including the acquisition, configuration, and installation of all the routers and switches that comprise the network. According to my source's e-mail, his purview extended only to the network and had nothing to do with servers, databases, or applications: "Terry's area of responsibility was purely network. As far as I know (which admittedly is not very far), he did not work on servers, except maybe VoIP servers, AAA servers, and similar things directly related to the administration of the network. My suspicion is that you are right about how he was "monitoring e-mail"; it was probably via a sniffer, IPS, or possibly a spam-filtering/antivirus appliance. But that's just conjecture on my part." Like many network administrators who work in the rarified air of enterprise network architecture and administration, Childs apparently trusted no one but himself with the details of the network, including routing configuration and login information. Again, from the source's e-mail: "The routing configuration of the FiberWAN is extremely complex. Probably more so than it ought to be; I sometimes got the feeling that, in order to maintain more centralized control over the routing structure, [Childs] bent some of the rules of MPLS networks and caused problems for himself in terms of maintaining the routing. "Because the system was so complex (and also because he didn't involve any of the other network engineers in his unit), Terry was the only person who fully understood the FiberWAN configuration. Therefore, to prevent inadvertent disruption of this admittedly critical network, he locked everyone else out. I know most of the networking equipment ... does use centralized AAA, but I get the impression he may have configured the FiberWAN equipment for local authentication only." Childs' attitude toward other administrators is by no means unusual in the IT industry. This is generally due to the fact that admins who are tasked with constructing and maintaining networks of this size and scope care for them like children, and eventually come to believe that no one else could have the knowledge and skills to touch the delicate configurations that form the heart of the network. Sole Administrator: A key point made in the e-mail is that Childs' managers and co-workers all knew that he was the only person with administrative access to the network. In fact, it was apparently known and accepted in many levels of the San Francisco IT department. Again, quoting from the e-mail: "This is where it gets tricky for the prosecution, IMO, because the localized authentication, with Terry as sole administrator, has been in place for months, if not years. His coworkers knew it (my coworkers and I were told many times by Terry's coworkers, "If your request has anything to do with the FiberWAN, it'll have to wait for Terry. He's the only one with access to those routers"). His managers knew it. Other network engineers for the other departments of the City knew it. And everyone more or less accepted it. No one wanted the thing to come crashing down because some other network admin put a static route in there and caused a black hole; on the other hand, some of us did ask ourselves, "What if Terry gets hit by a truck?" If a configuration is known and accepted, is that "tampering"?" My source appears to believe that Childs' motivation was the antithesis of tampering, and that Childs did everything possible to maintain the integrity of the network, perhaps to a fault: "He's very controlling of his networks -- especially the FiberWAN. In an MPLS setup, you have "provider edge" (PE) routers and "customer edge" (CE) routers. He controlled both PE and CE, even though our department was the customer; we were only allowed to connect our routers to his CE routers, so we had to extend our routing tables into his equipment and vice versa, rather than tunneling our routing through the MPLS system." - Dedicated Engineer: Like so many other high-level network administrators, Childs seems to have taken his job extremely seriously, to the point of arrogance and perhaps to the point of burnout. "Terry was very dedicated to his career as an engineer. He is a CCIE (probably the only one in the City government), and spent much of his free time studying and learning more -- the MPLS for the FiberWAN, VoIP some of the departments are rolling out, other new technologies for our 311 and E911 systems, etc. He worked very hard, evenings and weekends in addition to full-time 8-5 work, and rarely took vacations. His classification is "professional," so he doesn't earn overtime pay, only comp time -- which like many of us he never really had the opportunity to use. He was on standby more or less 24-7-365; whereas in the private sector, in a company of 20,000 or more employees, you'd expect to find multiple engineers rotating that standby status, I'm pretty sure he was always the guy on call." This attitude is, again, not uncommon among high-level IT administrators. Neither is the fact that they tend to eschew what they perceive to be unnecessary questioning and bureaucratic "nonsense." "Terry also, obviously, had a terrible relationship with his superiors. I should point out that he's not just a network engineer -- he was the lead network engineer for the entire City. His bosses were all managerial rather than technical, and while the other engineers did not actually report to Terry, they did defer to him in any technical matters. Even the network architect left it to Terry to actually figure out implementation. Terry felt that his direct superior was intrusive, incompetent, and obstructive, and that the managers above him had no real idea of what was going on, and were more interested in office politics than in getting anything done. "[Childs] complained that they spent more time doing paperwork -- change requests, documentation, etc. -- than actually implementing or fixing anything (a common complaint among engineers, I know). He complained about being overworked (which he was, and which his colleagues are even more now) and that many of his colleagues were incompetent freeloaders (also not entirely without basis). "You could see him getting red in the face whenever he started talking about his department. And once you were on Terry's bad side (which thankfully I never was), that's where you stayed, and you'd get only the most grudging assistance from him from then on. Whether any of his complaints were valid or not, I can't really say, but I don't think that's as relevant as how Terry felt." Keys to the Kingdom: If Childs' sole proprietorship of the FiberWAN network was normal operating procedure, how did the tensions between Childs and his managers come to a head? Why was Childs arrested on Sunday? There have been reports that the city's newly-hired head of security may have pushed for Childs to open the FiberWAN doors to other admins. My source doesn't know for sure, but offers some insight: "I don't know much about his actions in the last few weeks. It's been a couple of months, at least, since I've even spoken to him, and even then it was probably only in reference to some specific request or ticket. But I can imagine that being the subject of disciplinary action by his supervisors for "performance" issues would be absolutely infuriating to him. I can imagine that his response would be, "How can you say my performance is poor when I've been doing what no one else here was willing or able enough to do?" If Childs was pressured to give up the keys to the network that he had built and cared for so long, would he go so far as to explicitly prevent anyone else from tinkering with his charge? "I can imagine that [Childs'] response to a demand to open up authentication to the FiberWAN would be, "Why? So you can screw it up and bring the Citynetwork crashing to a halt?" I can even imagine that, under so much pressure, he'd take steps (deleting or hiding config backups, for instance) to make sure he was the only one in control." These tales offer significant insight into what may have occurred between Childs and the FiberWAN network hostage situation. Rather than a case of a rogue administrator attempting to cause damage to the network by locking out other administrators, this may be a case of an overprotective admin who believed he was protecting the network -- and by extension, the city -- from other administrators whom he considered inferior, and perhaps even dangerous. One important fact seems to be in Childs' favor, if reports that the network has continued to run smoothly since his arrest are true.. My source corroborates this. "As for the impact of [Childs'] actions to the rest of the City, the mayor's statement basically has it right. The network is completely up and running. No servers that I'm aware of are affected. No one has had any downtime (yet). But until they get back into those routers, they can't make any changes. I don't know yet if Terry's lockout applies only to the FiberWAN or also to the other routers, firewalls, switches, etc. in the City network." -- Laying the Blame: My source doesn't appear to harbor any ill will towards Childs for this situation, and even believes that the city may be worse off with Childs out of the picture, and that some of the blame should be shouldered by Childs' superiors. "It's a real shame. The city is losing a good network engineer -- probably the best, technically, that they've ever had. Ultimately he has no one to blame but himself, but it's too bad his superiors weren't better about establishing and enforcing policies about authentication, backups, auditing, cross-training, and separation/rotation of duties. "You'll note the papers have referred to the new information security manager. It's only been a month or so since the City even had an information security policy, and even that is a bare, unmodified template from CCISDA that's awaiting discussion and alteration by a committee that hasn't been formed yet. (When I asked Terry if we could get a copy of the City's network security policy some months ago, he told me, "I've been trying to get them to approve one for years. I've written ones up and submitted them, but they don't want to do it, because they don't want to be held to it.")" He also points out that by forcing the issue, the city may have significantly reduced its ability to use and control its own network. "The one impact they haven't mentioned is that Terry was one of only two engineers assigned to special projects and to do major routing changes and perimeter firewall configuration. The service level, even after they regain control of the network, is going to be way down, until they can fill his mighty big shoes." My source had many good things to say about Childs, but did not shy from negative comments, noting that Childs has a bad temper and can be very defensive. "As for Terry's character, I can imagine this happening. He takes great personal and professional pride in his work -- to a fault. He can be very defensive if someone suggests there's something wrong with the way his network is set up, and that's been a problem for us (as his customer) a couple of times. Terry has a bad temper. "He's the sort of person who, while his bile is up, won't budge an inch -- and then will call you a couple of hours later and acknowledge that maybe your suggestion was right, after all, or maybe here's an even better way to handle things." The Inner Sanctum: Later in the e-mail, my source offered some insight into what may be at the core of the issue: Childs was so paranoid about the security of the network that he even refused to write router and switch configs to flash, which would mean that if the device was powered off, all configurations would be lost. "At one point he was concerned about the security of the FiberWAN routers in remote offices, so he had them set up without saving the config to flash. "If they go down, I'll get alerted, and connect up to them and reload the config." Great, except we have power outages all the time in this city, some of those devices aren't on UPSs, and what happens if you're on vacation? And what about the 15 to 60 minutes it might take you to connect up and reload? He eventually conceded and (ahem) decided that disabling password recovery was sufficient security." If Childs did this with some or all of the switches and routers comprising the FiberWAN network, then password recovery without significant network disruption becomes a bigger problem. Without first-hand knowledge of the state of those routers and switches, there's no good way to know, unfortunately. If the details given to me in this e-mail are accurate, it would appear that this case is not nearly what it seemed originally. Perhaps it comes with the pressure and responsibility of the job, or the belief that the network they've built is simply too complex for mere mortals to comprehend, but it's not uncommon for highly skilled network administrators to become overprotective of their networks, or for networks of significant size to become an extension of the person who built them. It certainly appears that Terry Childs believed San Francisco's FiberWAN network was his baby, and that by refusing to allow others to access the inner sanctum was in the best interests of the city, the citizens, and perhaps most importantly, himself. --- -30- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ajp at glocom.ac.jp Sun Jul 20 12:21:18 2008 From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 01:21:18 +0900 Subject: [governance] IGC members list In-Reply-To: <20080719070438.E6182A6CA3@smtp2.electricembers.net> References: <20080719070438.E6182A6CA3@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: >Hi All > >Enclosed is a list of 114 IGC members who have >accepted membership of the caucus as per the >charter¹s condition, i.e. subscription to the >charter. Parminder, Hi, this is very interesting. However, could you please draw up a ballot. Arrange for the ballot to be sent to all who have been subscribed to the list for at least two months (have you set a cut-off date for this, or does it roll on and on?) Include on the ballot a question asking the person to confirm they are a member of the IGC based on membership criteria as described in the charter . Relevant sections of the charter: Voting Process Each person who is subscribed to the list at least two (2) months before the election will be given a voter account. As part of the voting process the voter must personally ascertain that they are a member of the IGC based on membership criteria described elsewhere in this charter and posted as part of the voting information (i.e. a voter must affirm membership on the voter form in order to vote). The decision to self-identify as a member of the IGC is a personal decision based on the criteria defined. A list of the self-defined member-voters will be published after the election with the results of the election. and, Membership The members of the IGC are individuals, acting in personal capacity, who subscribe to the charter of the caucus. All members are equal and have the same rights and duties. >To quote the charter Œthe members of the IGC are >individuals, acting in personal capacity, who >subscribe to the charter of the caucus¹. > >I will keep this list open for 2 more days, for >anyone to comment on his or her exclusion or >inclusion. No, that's not your decision. Please read the charter and follow what it instructs you to do. You should send the ballot to all who have been subscribed to the list at least two (2) months before the election. Note that a list self-defined member-voters will be published after the election. Thanks, Adam >After that, the list will be posted as the >current IGC members list. The list, however, >remains open for inclusion of new members at all >times. > >It is quite a task to keep track of all the >emails from the members, and consequently there >could be inaccuracies in the list which please >point out. I may especially have inadvertently >missed including someone¹s name even after a >confirmation email was sent to me. Please look >your name up in the list and inform me about any >such mistake. > >I am also taking the liberty to include the >names of three members regarding whom there is >enough indication that they do subscribe to the >charter but who, apparently, to my best >understanding, did not respond to my email due >to difference in our understanding of some >technical issues regarding IGC processes. I will >include the names of Avri, McTim and Jeanette to >this list before I put it out finally in 2 days. >To do so was also suggested by Tapani on the >list, to which suggestion I agree. > >I will also add to this list more information >about those members who have volunteered >additional information. > > >Parminder > > >CS ­ IGC Members List as of 18 July 2008 (tentative) > > > >1 >Rabia Abdelkrim Chikh >2 >Veronica Cretu >3 >Philippe Goujon >4 >Rudi Vansnick >5 >Ralf Bendrath >6 >Erick Iriarte Ahon >7 >Karen Banks >8 >Sheraan Amod >9 >Tapani Tarvainen >10 >Md. Hakikur Rahman >11 >Jac SM Kee >12 >Izumi Aizu >13 >Francoise Massit-Follea >14 >Dave Kissoondoyal >15 >William Drake >16 >Al Alegre >17 >Mawaki Chango >18 >Ahmed Swapan Mahmood >19 >Max Senges >20 >Abiodun Jagun >21 >Kevin Choi >22 >Ching Chiao >23 >Sylvia Caras >24 >Michael Gurstein >25 >Hempal Shrestha >26 >Hong Xue >27 >Koven Ronald >28 >Jeffrey A. Williams >29 >Gao Mosweu >30 >Nnenna Nwakanma >31 >Iffat Rose Gill >32 >Ian Peter >33 >Jacqueline A. Morris >34 >Tijani Ben Jemaa >35 >Robert Guerra >36 >Graciela Selaimen >37 >Raquel Gatto >38 >Divina Frau-Meigs >39 >Schombe Baudouin >40 >Wolfgang Benedek >41 >Roshni Nuggehalli >42 >Gurumurthy Kasinathan >43 >Vivek Vaidyanathan >44 >Lyman Chapin >45 >Virginia (Ginger) Paque >46 >Pablo Accuosto >47 >Garth Graham >48 >Danny Butt >49 >Jeremy Malcolm >50 >Josep Xercavins i Valls >51 >David Allen >52 >Hans Klein >53 >Michael Froomkin >54 >Janna Quitney Anderson >55 >John Mathiason >56 >Milton Mueller >57 >Jeremy Hunsinger >58 >Hanane Boujemi >59 >Iliya Bazlyankov. >60 >Vittorio Bertola >61 >Patrick Vande Walle >62 >Yuri Hohlov >63 >Daniel Pimienta >64 >Olugbenga Adeyemo >65 >Carolina Aguerre >66 >Ricardo Ruiz >67 >Charles Mok >68 >Fouad Bajwa >69 >Siranush Vardanyan >70 >Gbenga Sesan >71 >Mr. Solomon Gizaw >72 >Mr. Hartmut Glaser >73 >Omar Kaminski >74 >Matthias C. Kettemann >75 >Magaly Pazello >76 >Philip Napoli >77 >Jacques Berleur >78 >Wolfgang Kleinwaechter >79 >William Currie >80 >Anriette Esterhuysen >81 >Robin Gross >82 >Ken Lohento >83 >Renate Bloem >84 >Meryem Marzouki >85 >Giacomo Mazzone >86 >Lisa Horner >87 >Carlton Samuels >88 >Maja Andjelkovic >89 >Nyangkwe Agien Aaron >90 >Brenden Kuerbis >91 >Shaila Mistry Rao >92 >Bret Fausett >93 >Adam Peake >94 >Carlos Afonso >95 >Raymond A Plzak >96 >Lluis Miret >97 >Derrick L. Cogburn >98 >Lee McKnight >99 >Anita Gurumurthy >100 >Parminder Jeet Singh >101 >David Goldstein >102 >Jeremy Shtern >103 >Shahzad Ahmad >104 >Valeria Betancourt >105 >Y J Park >106 >Norbert Klein >107 >Rudi Rusdiah >108 >Daniel Oppermann >109 >Yehuda Katz >110 >Qusai AlShatti >111 >Peter Hollings >112 >Louis Pouzin >113 >Tricia Wang >114 >Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > > > > > > >Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:IGC members >list 180708.pdf (PDF /«IC») (005F44A8) >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org >To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Sun Jul 20 12:38:57 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Terry Childs Defence [Fund] Message-ID: CPSR - Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility Our motto states: http://www.cpsr.org/ What is CPSR? CPSR is a public interest alliance of computer scientists and others concerned about the impact of computer technology on society.... [ "alliance of computer scientists and others"] - Terry Childs Defence [Fund] Would anyone be intrested in supporting 'Terry Childs Defence' ? I'm willing to send his Attorney $100.USD 'with' a letter-of-endorsment by the CPSR for his defence. Anyone care to match that bid? Any 'Locals' care to visit him while he's in Jail? - Refs.: (Childs' Attorney of the San Francisco Public Defenders Office) Atty. Erin M. Crane ISLN 908133220 Address: 819 Eddy St San Francisco, CA 94109-7701 (Childs' Attorney of the San Francisco Public Defenders Office) --- End ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From dogwallah at gmail.com Sun Jul 20 14:11:33 2008 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:11:33 +0300 Subject: [governance] IGC members list In-Reply-To: References: <20080719070438.E6182A6CA3@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 7:21 PM, Adam Peake wrote: > No, that's not your decision. Please read the charter and follow what it > instructs you to do. You should send the ballot to all who have been > subscribed to the list at least two (2) months before the election. Exactly what needs to happen. Thank you Adam. -- Cheers, McTim mctim.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sun Jul 20 22:22:31 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:52:31 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGC members list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080721022308.46B09A6C23@smtp2.electricembers.net> Adam > Parminder, Hi, this is very interesting. > > However, could you please draw up a ballot. I draw your attention to my email of 15th. To quote my email "I have every intention to uphold the charter, in the best possible manner, in the matter of voting process as well, reconciling any apparent contradiction as they may appear to different people. My proposal for this will be presented after the 17th when this round of membership list building will be completed." I also said "I am not intervening is this discussion on_the_issue_of_the_voting_process because, as I mentioned in an earlier email, some of these discussions have been confusing list participants a lot in terms of the primary task being done at this stage which is to prepare a members list as per the charter." So can you please just wait for my proposal on this and trust my word that I will "uphold the charter in the best possible manner". And it is not that in the meantime I am not doing some important caucus work. For you drawing up the members list as per the charter conditions may be merely 'very interesting' but I think it is a central organizational activity for the caucus. And it is not an easy task to keep track of all the emails I receive from around 120 members, seeking clarification, clarifying issues, building an appropriate list, opening it for comments before finalization etc. And I am doing all this as I am traveling. >>I will keep this list open for 2 more days, for anyone to comment on >>his or her exclusion or inclusion. >No, that's not your decision. What is not my decision? To keep a list open to corrections etc before announcing it as the standing IGC members list on the day?? How/ Why? And you would of course have read the next sentence in my email " The list, however, remains open for inclusion of new members at all times." > Please read the charter and follow what it instructs you to do. Thanks for your advice. I do read the charter often. I also requested in my mail " For many reasons that I have argued a few times earlier, and will mention again in my email after the 17th, it will help us greatly at this stage if we see these two issues 'separately' - (1) the issue of preparing a members list as per the charter and (2) voting process for electing a new co-coordinator, also as per the charter." You have the complete right to post whatever you wish anytime to the list but I must observe that this present email too does add to the confusion at the stage when some members are still in the process of confirming IGC membership, which I had requested to avoid. Meanwhile, I must also remind you that you had advised me to make a members list in your email dated 23rd April which I quote. "If someone has been subscribed to the list for two months they should be sent an email asking them if they wish to become a member of the caucus and if they subscribe to the IGC charter (which means they have read the charter and accept the provisions of the charter.) If they answer yes, they are members and can be added to a member list." (Adam) Parminder   > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Peake [mailto:ajp at glocom.ac.jp] > Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 9:51 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Parminder > Subject: Re: [governance] IGC members list > > >Hi All > > > >Enclosed is a list of 114 IGC members who have > >accepted membership of the caucus as per the > >charter¹s condition, i.e. subscription to the > >charter. > > > Parminder, Hi, this is very interesting. > > However, could you please draw up a ballot. > Arrange for the ballot to be sent to all who have > been subscribed to the list for at least two > months (have you set a cut-off date for this, or > does it roll on and on?) Include on the ballot a > question asking the person to confirm they are a > member of the IGC based on membership criteria as > described in the charter > . > Relevant sections of the charter: > > Voting Process > > Each person who is subscribed to the list at > least two (2) months before the election will be > given a voter account. > > As part of the voting process the voter must > personally ascertain that they are a member of > the IGC based on membership criteria described > elsewhere in this charter and posted as part of > the voting information (i.e. a voter must affirm > membership on the voter form in order to vote). > The decision to self-identify as a member of the > IGC is a personal decision based on the criteria > defined. A list of the self-defined member-voters > will be published after the election with the > results of the election. > and, > > Membership > > The members of the IGC are individuals, acting in > personal capacity, who subscribe to the charter > of the caucus. All members are equal and have the > same rights and duties. > > > >To quote the charter Œthe members of the IGC are > >individuals, acting in personal capacity, who > >subscribe to the charter of the caucus¹. > > > >I will keep this list open for 2 more days, for > >anyone to comment on his or her exclusion or > >inclusion. > > > No, that's not your decision. Please read the > charter and follow what it instructs you to do. > You should send the ballot to all who have been > subscribed to the list at least two (2) months > before the election. > > Note that a list self-defined member-voters will > be published after the election. > > Thanks, > > Adam > > > > >After that, the list will be posted as the > >current IGC members list. The list, however, > >remains open for inclusion of new members at all > >times. > > > >It is quite a task to keep track of all the > >emails from the members, and consequently there > >could be inaccuracies in the list which please > >point out. I may especially have inadvertently > >missed including someone¹s name even after a > >confirmation email was sent to me. Please look > >your name up in the list and inform me about any > >such mistake. > > > >I am also taking the liberty to include the > >names of three members regarding whom there is > >enough indication that they do subscribe to the > >charter but who, apparently, to my best > >understanding, did not respond to my email due > >to difference in our understanding of some > >technical issues regarding IGC processes. I will > >include the names of Avri, McTim and Jeanette to > >this list before I put it out finally in 2 days. > >To do so was also suggested by Tapani on the > >list, to which suggestion I agree. > > > >I will also add to this list more information > >about those members who have volunteered > >additional information. > > > > > >Parminder > > > > > >CS ­ IGC Members List as of 18 July 2008 (tentative) > > > > > > > >1 > >Rabia Abdelkrim Chikh > >2 > >Veronica Cretu > >3 > >Philippe Goujon > >4 > >Rudi Vansnick > >5 > >Ralf Bendrath > >6 > >Erick Iriarte Ahon > >7 > >Karen Banks > >8 > >Sheraan Amod > >9 > >Tapani Tarvainen > >10 > >Md. Hakikur Rahman > >11 > >Jac SM Kee > >12 > >Izumi Aizu > >13 > >Francoise Massit-Follea > >14 > >Dave Kissoondoyal > >15 > >William Drake > >16 > >Al Alegre > >17 > >Mawaki Chango > >18 > >Ahmed Swapan Mahmood > >19 > >Max Senges > >20 > >Abiodun Jagun > >21 > >Kevin Choi > >22 > >Ching Chiao > >23 > >Sylvia Caras > >24 > >Michael Gurstein > >25 > >Hempal Shrestha > >26 > >Hong Xue > >27 > >Koven Ronald > >28 > >Jeffrey A. Williams > >29 > >Gao Mosweu > >30 > >Nnenna Nwakanma > >31 > >Iffat Rose Gill > >32 > >Ian Peter > >33 > >Jacqueline A. Morris > >34 > >Tijani Ben Jemaa > >35 > >Robert Guerra > >36 > >Graciela Selaimen > >37 > >Raquel Gatto > >38 > >Divina Frau-Meigs > >39 > >Schombe Baudouin > >40 > >Wolfgang Benedek > >41 > >Roshni Nuggehalli > >42 > >Gurumurthy Kasinathan > >43 > >Vivek Vaidyanathan > >44 > >Lyman Chapin > >45 > >Virginia (Ginger) Paque > >46 > >Pablo Accuosto > >47 > >Garth Graham > >48 > >Danny Butt > >49 > >Jeremy Malcolm > >50 > >Josep Xercavins i Valls > >51 > >David Allen > >52 > >Hans Klein > >53 > >Michael Froomkin > >54 > >Janna Quitney Anderson > >55 > >John Mathiason > >56 > >Milton Mueller > >57 > >Jeremy Hunsinger > >58 > >Hanane Boujemi > >59 > >Iliya Bazlyankov. > >60 > >Vittorio Bertola > >61 > >Patrick Vande Walle > >62 > >Yuri Hohlov > >63 > >Daniel Pimienta > >64 > >Olugbenga Adeyemo > >65 > >Carolina Aguerre > >66 > >Ricardo Ruiz > >67 > >Charles Mok > >68 > >Fouad Bajwa > >69 > >Siranush Vardanyan > >70 > >Gbenga Sesan > >71 > >Mr. Solomon Gizaw > >72 > >Mr. Hartmut Glaser > >73 > >Omar Kaminski > >74 > >Matthias C. Kettemann > >75 > >Magaly Pazello > >76 > >Philip Napoli > >77 > >Jacques Berleur > >78 > >Wolfgang Kleinwaechter > >79 > >William Currie > >80 > >Anriette Esterhuysen > >81 > >Robin Gross > >82 > >Ken Lohento > >83 > >Renate Bloem > >84 > >Meryem Marzouki > >85 > >Giacomo Mazzone > >86 > >Lisa Horner > >87 > >Carlton Samuels > >88 > >Maja Andjelkovic > >89 > >Nyangkwe Agien Aaron > >90 > >Brenden Kuerbis > >91 > >Shaila Mistry Rao > >92 > >Bret Fausett > >93 > >Adam Peake > >94 > >Carlos Afonso > >95 > >Raymond A Plzak > >96 > >Lluis Miret > >97 > >Derrick L. Cogburn > >98 > >Lee McKnight > >99 > >Anita Gurumurthy > >100 > >Parminder Jeet Singh > >101 > >David Goldstein > >102 > >Jeremy Shtern > >103 > >Shahzad Ahmad > >104 > >Valeria Betancourt > >105 > >Y J Park > >106 > >Norbert Klein > >107 > >Rudi Rusdiah > >108 > >Daniel Oppermann > >109 > >Yehuda Katz > >110 > >Qusai AlShatti > >111 > >Peter Hollings > >112 > >Louis Pouzin > >113 > >Tricia Wang > >114 > >Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:IGC members > >list 180708.pdf (PDF /«IC») (005F44A8) > >____________________________________________________________ > >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > >To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > >For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From dogwallah at gmail.com Mon Jul 21 00:12:02 2008 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:12:02 +0300 Subject: [PROCESS] Re: [governance] IGC members list In-Reply-To: <20080721022308.46B09A6C23@smtp2.electricembers.net> References: <20080721022308.46B09A6C23@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: 2008/7/21 Parminder : > > Adam > >> Parminder, Hi, this is very interesting. >> >> However, could you please draw up a ballot. > > I draw your attention to my email of 15th. To quote my email > > "I have every intention to uphold the charter, in the best possible manner, > in the matter of voting process as well, reconciling any apparent > contradiction as they may appear to different people. My proposal for this > will be presented after the 17th when this round of membership list building > will be completed." > > I also said > > "I am not intervening is this discussion on_the_issue_of_the_voting_process > because, as I mentioned in an earlier email, some of these discussions have > been confusing list participants a lot in terms of the primary task being > done at this stage which is to prepare a members list as per the charter." > > So can you please just wait for my proposal on this and trust my word that I > will "uphold the charter in the best possible manner". > > And it is not that in the meantime I am not doing some important caucus > work. For you drawing up the members list as per the charter conditions may > be merely 'very interesting' but I think it is a central organizational > activity for the caucus. And it is not an easy task to keep track of all the > emails I receive from around 120 members, seeking clarification, clarifying > issues, building an appropriate list, opening it for comments before > finalization etc. And I am doing all this as I am traveling. > >>>I will keep this list open for 2 more days, for anyone to comment on >>>his or her exclusion or inclusion. > >>No, that's not your decision. > > What is not my decision? To make pre-election list, the list of members is generated by the election, not before, as the charter clearly states. To keep a list open to corrections etc before > announcing it as the standing IGC members list on the day?? How/ Why? > And you would of course have read the next sentence in my email " The list, > however, remains open for inclusion of new members at all times." this is irrelevant. > >> Please read the charter and follow what it instructs you to do. > > Thanks for your advice. I do read the charter often. > > I also requested in my mail > > " For many reasons that I have argued a few times earlier, and will mention > again in my email after the 17th, it will help us greatly at this stage if > we see these two issues 'separately' - (1) the issue of preparing a members > list as per the charter and (2) voting process for electing a new > co-coordinator, also as per the charter." > The charter clearly says they inseparable: "(i.e. a voter must affirm membership on the voter form in order to vote). The decision to self-identify as a member of the IGC is a personal decision based on the criteria defined. A list of the self-defined member-voters will be published after the election with the results of the election." > You have the complete right to post whatever you wish anytime to the list > but I must observe that this present email too does add to the confusion at > the stage when some members are still in the process of confirming IGC > membership, which I had requested to avoid. It's you who are confused about this, in addition to the confusion, it's just extra work you are creating for yourself. -- Cheers, McTim mctim.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From avri at psg.com Mon Jul 21 04:48:25 2008 From: avri at psg.com (Avri Doria) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:48:25 +0200 Subject: [PROCESS] Re: [governance] IGC members list In-Reply-To: References: <20080721022308.46B09A6C23@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <2056A3C7-9E29-44C0-8AF4-8E1F989C975E@psg.com> On 21 Jul 2008, at 06:12, McTim wrote: > > To make pre-election list, the list of members is generated by the > election, not before, as the charter clearly states. At this point i suggest letting Parminder come out with his proposal. As far as I can tell there is no harm in making a membership list as long as those who receive ballots are not limited to those on this list. It may think it a duplication of effort at this point just before an election, but not at all against the charter. And as coordinator, he may have some organized scheme in mind. Parminder has said: > > "I have every intention to uphold the charter, in the best possible > manner, > in the matter of voting process as well, reconciling any apparent > contradiction as they may appear to different people. My proposal > for this > will be presented after the 17th when this round of membership list > building > will be completed." Given that he knows about the various views on the charter, I think we should wait for the proposal and see if it really does manage to sail safely between Scylla and Charybdis. I think those of us who interpret the charter as you and I do, can put some hope in the use of the phrase 'round of membership list building' cheers, a. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Mon Jul 21 07:00:21 2008 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:00:21 +0100 Subject: [PROCESS] Re: [governance] IGC members list In-Reply-To: <2056A3C7-9E29-44C0-8AF4-8E1F989C975E@psg.com> References: <20080721022308.46B09A6C23@smtp2.electricembers.net> <2056A3C7-9E29-44C0-8AF4-8E1F989C975E@psg.com> Message-ID: In message <2056A3C7-9E29-44C0-8AF4-8E1F989C975E at psg.com>, at 10:48:25 on Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Avri Doria writes >As far as I can tell there is no harm in making a membership list as >long as those who receive ballots are not limited to those on this >list. "That" list, perhaps? So who should get ballot papers? Is it everyone who has been joined to the *mailing* list for more than 2 months (or something like that...) >It may think it a duplication of effort at this point just before an >election, but not at all against the charter. And as coordinator, he >may have some organized scheme in mind. -- Roland Perry ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 21 00:01:08 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:01:08 -0700 Subject: [governance] Much-maligned feature being added to IPv6 Message-ID: <488409FC.D2E8CEE7@ix.netcom.com> All, See: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/072108-ipv6nat.html?netht=ts_072108&nladname=072108dailynewsamal Frankly I personally view this as a very positive step for IPv6. Breaches a ideological technical divide that has existed for nearly a decade, which is a good first step in gaining more acceptance for IPv6. The downside is that LEA's won't like it very much for obvious reasons. Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From pr+governance at x0.dk Tue Jul 22 04:10:58 2008 From: pr+governance at x0.dk (Phil Regnauld) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:10:58 +0200 Subject: [governance] Much-maligned feature being added to IPv6 In-Reply-To: <488409FC.D2E8CEE7@ix.netcom.com> References: <488409FC.D2E8CEE7@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <20080722081056.GA84509@macbook.catpipe.net> Jeffrey A. Williams (jwkckid1) writes: > > Frankly I personally view this as a very positive step for IPv6. > Breaches a ideological > technical divide that has existed for nearly a decade, which is a good > first step > in gaining more acceptance for IPv6. The downside is that LEA's won't > like it very much for obvious reasons. Read Alain Durand's proposal for a very interesting solution on the transition for large broadband providers: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-durand-dual-stack-lite-00 (it is cited in the article and is by far more interesting than the whole NAT or no NAT discussion). ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Tue Jul 22 11:27:49 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:27:49 -0700 Subject: [governance] FW: [TriumphOfContent] FW: How many subscribers to a web email list does it take to change a lightbulb? (Humor) Message-ID: <00ce01c8ec0f$8143ade0$02fea8c0@michael78xnoln> Ah, the foolishness one finds in other email lists. I'm glad that we are immune... ;-) MG -----Original Message----- From: TriumphOfContent at yahoogroups.com [mailto:TriumphOfContent at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anjana Basu Sent: July 22, 2008 4:49 AM Subject: [TriumphOfContent] FW: How many subscribers to a web email list does it take to change a lightbulb? (Humor) How many subscribers to a web email list does it take to change a light bulb? ANSWER: * 1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed. * 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. * 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. * 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. * 41 to correct the spelling/grammar flames. * 6 to argue over whether it's 'lightbulb' or 'light bulb.' * Another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive. * 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is 'lamp.' * 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs. * 12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy. * 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. * 44 to ask, 'What is an FAQ?' * 2 to post reasons why the light bulb burning out is the result of a government conspiracy. * 4 to say, 'Didn't we go through this already a short time ago?' * 43 to say, 'Do a Google search on light bulbs.' * 1 lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again. _____ This is your window into tinsel town. Keep abreast with the latest movie releases, star shockers and juicy gossip. Try it! __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar MARKETPLACE You rock! Blockbuster wants to give you a complimentary trial of Blockbuster Total Access. Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Yahoo! Groups Join people over 40 who are finding ways to stay in shape. Moderator Central Yahoo! Groups Get the latest news from the team. Healthy Living Learn to live life to the fullest on Yahoo! Groups. . __,_._,___ !DSPAM:2676,4885c929227562431618578! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Tue Jul 22 13:59:55 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:59:55 -0700 Subject: [governance] FW: [IP] FCC Broadband Hearing in Pittsburgh Message-ID: <012501c8ec24$c4781140$02fea8c0@michael78xnoln> FCC Commissioner Copps "No matter who you are, or where you live, or how much money you make ... you will need, and you are entitled to have these tools (broadband Internet) available to you, I think, as a civil right." MG -----Original Message----- From: David Farber [mailto:dave at farber.net] Sent: July 22, 2008 7:31 AM To: ip Subject: [IP] FCC Broadband Hearing in Pittsburgh ________________________________________ From: Dewayne Hendricks [dewayne at warpspeed.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 10:23 AM To: David Farber Subject: FCC Broadband Hearing in Pittsburgh FCC BROADBAND HEARING IN PITTSBURGH The Federal Communications Commission traveled to Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh Monday to discuss "Broadband and the Digital Future." The FCC commissioners heard about privacy, fairness and commercial possibility. Rep Mike Doyle (D-PA) helped organize the event saying it was intended to address two major concerns -- the so- called "digital divide" between those who have broadband access and those who don't, and "Network Neutrality," or the openness of the Internet. The United States government needs to expand its broadband mapping efforts and collect information about Internet speed tiers, Federal Communications Chairman Kevin Martin said. FCC Commissioner Michael Copps said, "No matter who you are, or where you live, or how much money you make ... you will need, and you are entitled to have these tools (broadband Internet) available to you, I think, as a civil right." Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein echoed Doyle's and Martin's calls for regulations and seconded Martin's belief that America must find a solutions that will help increase broadband deployment and speed while also lowering the cost of broadband. Commissioner Deborah Taylor Tate emphasized her efforts to crack down on online child pornography. Internet service providers should be free to take unilateral action against such sites, she said. Tate also cited the need to respect intellectual property rights online. Commissioner Robert McDowell, appearing to reject some of the more regulatory policies of his colleagues, said that the Internet has flourished because engineers have, and should continue, to be the solvers of engineering problems, not governmental officials. Links to source articles: Of particular note: "At FCC broadband hearing, speeches but no consensus" Courtesy of the Benton Foundation ------------------------------------------- Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com !DSPAM:2676,4885f1b9227566097117332! ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Tue Jul 22 16:26:13 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:26:13 +1000 Subject: [governance] FW: [TriumphOfContent] FW: How many subscribers to a web email list does it take to change a lightbulb? (Humor) In-Reply-To: <00ce01c8ec0f$8143ade0$02fea8c0@michael78xnoln> Message-ID: <04a301c8ec39$33f081b0$8b00a8c0@IAN> Michael, so true! But maybe the list should also include (with a healthy dose of cynicism) * 7 to argue whether the procedure for changing light bulbs was carried out according to the charter * 3 suggesting that a separate mailing list be set up to deal with the subject of light bulb change processes * 1 outlining the history of light bulb changes within this list * 1 wondering why the light bulb wasn't changed about 9 months ago * 2 exploring the human rights and privacy implications of changing a light bulb * 1 suggesting this should be left to the technical community * 2 arguing whether technical community is the correct term for the technical community * 1 suggesting that this is not an internet governance matter * 1 outlining a process to draw up a list of those who are eligible to change light bulbs Ian Peter Ian Peter and Associates Pty Ltd PO Box 10670 Adelaide St Brisbane 4000 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Michael Gurstein [mailto:gurstein at gmail.com] Sent: 23 July 2008 01:28 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] FW: [TriumphOfContent] FW: How many subscribers to a web email list does it take to change a lightbulb? (Humor) Ah, the foolishness one finds in other email lists. I'm glad that we are immune... ;-) MG -----Original Message----- From: TriumphOfContent at yahoogroups.com [mailto:TriumphOfContent at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anjana Basu Sent: July 22, 2008 4:49 AM Subject: [TriumphOfContent] FW: How many subscribers to a web email list does it take to change a lightbulb? (Humor) How many subscribers to a web email list does it take to change a light bulb? ANSWER: * 1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed. * 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. * 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. * 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. * 41 to correct the spelling/grammar flames. * 6 to argue over whether it's 'lightbulb' or 'light bulb.' * Another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive. * 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is 'lamp.' * 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs. * 12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy. * 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. * 44 to ask, 'What is an FAQ?' * 2 to post reasons why the light bulb burning out is the result of a government conspiracy. * 4 to say, 'Didn't we go through this already a short time ago?' * 43 to say, 'Do a Google search on light bulbs.' * 1 lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again. _____ This is your window into tinsel town. Keep abreast with the latest movie releases, star shockers and juicy gossip. Try it! __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar MARKETPLACE You rock! Blockbuster wants to give you a complimentary trial of Blockbuster Total Access. Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Yahoo! Groups Join people over 40 who are finding ways to stay in shape. Moderator Central Yahoo! Groups Get the latest news from the team. Healthy Living Learn to live life to the fullest on Yahoo! Groups. . __,_._,___ !DSPAM:2676,4885c929227562431618578! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.3/1563 - Release Date: 7/20/2008 12:59 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 21 21:45:36 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:45:36 -0700 Subject: [governance] Much-maligned feature being added to IPv6 References: <488409FC.D2E8CEE7@ix.netcom.com> <20080722081056.GA84509@macbook.catpipe.net> Message-ID: <48853BBF.59893D30@ix.netcom.com> Phil and all, Already read it, but thanks anyway. And yes it was quite interesting. Phil Regnauld wrote: > Jeffrey A. Williams (jwkckid1) writes: > > > > Frankly I personally view this as a very positive step for IPv6. > > Breaches a ideological > > technical divide that has existed for nearly a decade, which is a good > > first step > > in gaining more acceptance for IPv6. The downside is that LEA's won't > > like it very much for obvious reasons. > > Read Alain Durand's proposal for a very interesting solution on the > transition for large broadband providers: > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-durand-dual-stack-lite-00 > > (it is cited in the article and is by far more interesting than > the whole NAT or no NAT discussion). > > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 22 04:29:35 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:29:35 -0700 Subject: [governance] Re: [ga] Report: Registrars & Steroids References: <25560.96793.qm@web52201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48859A6F.53D6602E@ix.netcom.com> Elliot and all, If Registrars and Registries are not going to police their registrants, and ICANN is not going to enforce it's own rules, and LOCAL law enforcement is ill equipped to handle the task of errant registrants, than whom is going to do the enforcement, santa claus? Or maybe mickey mouse, eh? The ultimate authority here is that DCO/NTIA is whom needs to either take the situation in hand or the courts will eventually. Problem with the courts doing so is that of a jurisdictional consideration. Therefore it would seem that perhaps DOC/NTIA needs to submit legislation that would be used to address this ongoing and growing problem in a thoughtful but effective manner. This would mean though that DOC/NTIA would remain in control of ICANN forever which would not suite the europeans and other countries sensitivities and profound anti-American attitude abroad. Needless to say this problem will get even worse as new gTLD's and IDN gTLD's are added as per the ICANN decision recently taken in Paris last month. So what is a viable and workable solution? One thing for sure is that we don't want anyone from Tucows or Godaddy calling the tune for everyone, and likely registrants with either may be a bit concerned in same making these judgments for their DN's. If so, than maybe they can transfer their DN's to a more Registrant "Friendly" Registrar? A novel idea? Hardly! Should we wait until Obama is elected president and his promise of appointing a Internet czar make these calls? Maybe, maybe not, as I am sure whomever that czar was, and god forbid if it was Vint Cerf, an likely candidate, than perhaps a lottery of submitted names with a random name selection program doing the selection. After all ICANN, DOC/NTIA, and most other nations support various lotteries of different sorts. Yeah, Charlie Manson or Terry Childs might just win, who knows, but at least it would have been a completely random process and no bias could be claimed legitimately. Yet I can see political games being played with this suggestion or idea as well. A conundrum? Perhaps. My own solution only: Get the Independent registrants constituency up and running and let them by blind lot elect a DN abusive name czar and let him or her serve for a 18 month term making these judgment calls under some strict rules developed ONLY by the Independent Registrant constituency. Any appeals to this czar's decision would of course be eligible for legal appeal in a court of proper and most importantly "Competent" jurisdiction's court of appeals, or non-US equivalent. The problem with such appeals is finding a "Competant" judge in any jurisdiction in said court of appeals or non-US equivalent. It's either something very similar to my solution, or the IPC will essentially be making the judgment calls on this as they have the GNSO council in their back pocket... elliot noss wrote: > oops. link here: > http://www.theregiter.co.uk/2008/07/21/registrars_cater_to_steroids_sellers/comments/ > On 22-Jul-08, at 6:48 AM, Danny Younger wrote: > >> >> [Forwarded message] Networks of steroid dealing domains are sponsored through U.S.-based companies who refuse to shut them down even after being notified. LegitScript.com and Knujon.com have worked together to develop a report concerning extensive steroid distribution networks online. Steroids designated by the Department of Justice as “Schedule 3 Substances” were found at the 156 web domains listed in this report. The easy availability of illicit substances through these domains is shocking. Even more shocking is the lack of cooperation from the Registrars that sponsor these sites. On July 1 we issued joint letters to eight registrars: Abacus America, DSTR Acquisition VII, Dynadot.com, Everyones Internet, eNom Inc, EstDomains Inc, GoDaddy/Wild West, and Parava Networks Inc. In these letters we listed the websites, described the banned substances offered at each, and detailed how these sites were violating Internet policy, the Registrar’s own terms of service, and the law. Only three Registrars responded, two declining to cooperate, one stating they would look into it after several strong emails. A letter to one Registrar, Parava Networks Inc, was returned by the Postal Service as undeliverable, calling into question the general legitimacy of this particular company. While no one is accusing any of these Registrars of being actively involved in the illicit distribution, it is a simple fact that none of these sites would exist without the sponsorship of these Internet companies. Some Registrars may feel their first obligation is to their customers, but their real primary obligations are to the law and the stability of the Internet registration system. Everyone who registers an Internet domain is required to affirm that they “are not registering the domain name for an unlawful purpose” and the Registrar is required to ensure that this policy is enforced. For too long there has been a false perception that the Internet is lawless, but it isn’t. The rules are just not enforced and the stakeholders have been unaccountable. Knujon and LegitScript feel that these Registrars also have a moral and ethical responsibility to the public since the sale and distribution of these illicit substances poses a grave health risk. These websites purport to offer steroids to anyone without prescription or age verification. It is our hope that in releasing this information public awareness of the problem will increase. The full Steroid Report is available here: http://legitscript.com/Steroid%20Report.pdf The press release is here: http://legitscript.com/newsitems/show/10 A list of the Registrars, web domains in question, the substances offered at each, and samples of the site content can be viewed here: http://www.knujon.com/schedule3/dir.html For more information, please contact: John Horton 877-534-4879 LegitScript.com Or Dr. Robert Bruen +1.802.579.6288 http://coldrain.net http://knujon.com Garth Bruen gbruen at knujon.com >> Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Wed Jul 23 04:39:47 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:09:47 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGC members list Message-ID: <20080723084000.DEAE5A6C54@smtp2.electricembers.net> Enclosed is the final list of 124 Internet Governance Caucus members as of today. To clarify to those who may have paid relatively less attention to the discussions on IGC processes etc, non-member IGC mailing list participants will continue to be on the mailing list, and participate in the discussions on it. This list is of those who subscribe to the IGC's charter (http://www.igcaucus.org/IGC-charter_final-061014.html ) and accept IGC's membership, inter alia, in terms of its various objectives and tasks listed in the charter. Thanks. Parminder PS: IGC's membership remains open at all time. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IGC member list as on 21st july 2008.odt Type: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text Size: 21635 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IGC member list as on 21st july 2008.doc Type: application/msword Size: 182272 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Wed Jul 23 08:36:35 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:06:35 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGC members list In-Reply-To: <20080723084000.DEAE5A6C54@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <20080723124515.EE3F7E0FA4@smtp3.electricembers.net> The list I sent was incomplete. Apologies for that. This is the final list of 127 IGC members. Parminder _____ From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 2:10 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] IGC members list Enclosed is the final list of 124 Internet Governance Caucus members as of today. To clarify to those who may have paid relatively less attention to the discussions on IGC processes etc, non-member IGC mailing list participants will continue to be on the mailing list, and participate in the discussions on it. This list is of those who subscribe to the IGC's charter (http://www.igcaucus.org/IGC-charter_final-061014.html ) and accept IGC's membership, inter alia, in terms of its various objectives and tasks listed in the charter. Thanks. Parminder PS: IGC's membership remains open at all time. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IGC member list as on 21st july 2008.odt Type: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text Size: 21960 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IGC member list as on 21st july 2008.doc Type: application/msword Size: 186880 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ajp at glocom.ac.jp Wed Jul 23 11:24:59 2008 From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:24:59 +0900 Subject: [governance] caucus workshop "The Transboundary Internet: Jurisdiction, Control and Sovereignty" Message-ID: Who is taking the lead in organizing this workshop? Suggest we offer it as a workshop to merge and help form the main session workshop "Managing Critical Internet Resources - Arrangement for Internet Governance - Global/National/Regional" At the moment here's only one workshop organizer offering to help shape this part of the main session, would be very good to have civil society involved in working on this part of the main agenda. See bottom of the page. Thanks, Adam ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Wed Jul 23 21:13:39 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? Message-ID: What do you guys want in a IGF website? ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Thu Jul 24 02:20:46 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:50:46 +0530 Subject: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello The IGF website needs to be designed for the common man who has no idea of what IGF is all about. It needs to have basic introductory information about IGF, about previous IGFs, the forthcoming IGFs and about ways of participating in the IGF. It should have an easy to work around Web 2.0 interface with collaborative tools to connect for the expert user. It can have a column for the IGF secreatriate to make annoncements, pages where contact and procedural information pertaining to proposals, participation, fellowships etc are posted in an uncluttered format. It needs to include the discussion forums etc. as in intgovforum.org or at least a page with links to the existing forums. The intgovfourm.org has a "technie" look and feel, the new IGF wesbite needs to look easy. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:43 AM, Yehuda Katz wrote: > What do you guys want in a IGF website? > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From nyangkweagien at gmail.com Thu Jul 24 06:32:06 2008 From: nyangkweagien at gmail.com (Nyangkwe Agien Aaron) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:32:06 +0200 Subject: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Sivasubramanian's proposals are exhaustive. And I'll add that we include a "Quote of the Day" in which the forum administrators highlight a landmark statement made by a participant of the Forum during the a day. This alone can incite more visits to the site as well. Aaron On 7/24/08, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > Hello > > The IGF website needs to be designed for the common man who has no idea of > what IGF is all about. It needs to have basic introductory information about > IGF, about previous IGFs, the forthcoming IGFs and about ways of > participating in the IGF. > > It should have an easy to work around Web 2.0 interface with collaborative > tools to connect for the expert user. It can have a column for the IGF > secreatriate to make annoncements, pages where contact and procedural > information pertaining to proposals, participation, fellowships etc are > posted in an uncluttered format. It needs to include the discussion forums > etc. as in intgovforum.org or at least a page with links to the existing > forums. > > The intgovfourm.org has a "technie" look and feel, the new IGF wesbite needs > to look easy. > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:43 AM, Yehuda Katz > wrote: > > What do you guys want in a IGF website? > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > -- Aaron Agien Nyangkwe Journalist/Outcome Mapper Special Assistant To The President Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. ASAFE P.O.Box 5213 Douala-Cameroon Tel. 237 3337 50 22 Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 Fax. 237 3342 29 70 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com Thu Jul 24 10:01:18 2008 From: ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com (linda misek-falkoff) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:01:18 -0400 Subject: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45ed74050807240701u52f26338o3799f9f3c1ffd2d0@mail.gmail.com> Appreciating and Adding, it is nice to see the balancing of factors being considered already. Some spotlight and extended news delivery but also interactivity & accessibility in terms of creating as well as receiving - and presumptively for *differently abled* persons as well in terms of communication modalities. Some entry points for those new to IGF, some for longer standing (or more technically experienced etc.). Wondering about possibilities for multi-lingual entry points, which could be selectively achieved even in prototype. Thanks for this interesting, in itself collaborative discussion. *Respectfully Interfacing*, and sending best wishes, LDMF. On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:32 AM, Nyangkwe Agien Aaron < nyangkweagien at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello > > Sivasubramanian's proposals are exhaustive. > And I'll add that we include a "Quote of the Day" in which the forum > administrators highlight a landmark statement made by a participant of > the Forum during the a day. This alone can incite more visits to the > site as well. > > Aaron > > On 7/24/08, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > > Hello > > > > The IGF website needs to be designed for the common man who has no idea > of > > what IGF is all about. It needs to have basic introductory information > about > > IGF, about previous IGFs, the forthcoming IGFs and about ways of > > participating in the IGF. > > > > It should have an easy to work around Web 2.0 interface with > collaborative > > tools to connect for the expert user. It can have a column for the IGF > > secreatriate to make annoncements, pages where contact and procedural > > information pertaining to proposals, participation, fellowships etc are > > posted in an uncluttered format. It needs to include the discussion > forums > > etc. as in intgovforum.org or at least a page with links to the existing > > forums. > > > > The intgovfourm.org has a "technie" look and feel, the new IGF wesbite > needs > > to look easy. > > > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > -- > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:43 AM, Yehuda Katz > > wrote: > > > What do you guys want in a IGF website? > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > > -- > Aaron Agien Nyangkwe > Journalist/Outcome Mapper > Special Assistant To The President > Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. > ASAFE > P.O.Box 5213 > Douala-Cameroon > Tel. 237 3337 50 22 > Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 > Fax. 237 3342 29 70 > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- :) LDMF. Dr. Linda D. Misek-Falkoff *Respectful Interfaces* For I.D.: Communications Coordination Committee for the U.N. CONGO education committee National Disability Party International Disability Caucus Persons with Pain International WSIS, IGF, CFP onsite participant. 2007 Nominee: Global Alliance for ICT Strategy Council. 4+ decades on Internet and Prior Nets Other Affiliations on Request. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From lmcknigh at syr.edu Thu Jul 24 10:02:34 2008 From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:02:34 -0400 Subject: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? References: Message-ID: <63EEA1034C8EF14ABF56503CDC9A646E3D4F15@SUEXCL-03.ad.syr.edu> it should be easy for different linguistic communities, if they so chose, to build and maintain their own versions, with a 'click here' button at the top for Chinese or Spanish or whatever -----Original Message----- From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron [mailto:nyangkweagien at gmail.com] Sent: Thu 7/24/2008 6:32 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Subject: Re: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? Hello Sivasubramanian's proposals are exhaustive. And I'll add that we include a "Quote of the Day" in which the forum administrators highlight a landmark statement made by a participant of the Forum during the a day. This alone can incite more visits to the site as well. Aaron On 7/24/08, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > Hello > > The IGF website needs to be designed for the common man who has no idea of > what IGF is all about. It needs to have basic introductory information about > IGF, about previous IGFs, the forthcoming IGFs and about ways of > participating in the IGF. > > It should have an easy to work around Web 2.0 interface with collaborative > tools to connect for the expert user. It can have a column for the IGF > secreatriate to make annoncements, pages where contact and procedural > information pertaining to proposals, participation, fellowships etc are > posted in an uncluttered format. It needs to include the discussion forums > etc. as in intgovforum.org or at least a page with links to the existing > forums. > > The intgovfourm.org has a "technie" look and feel, the new IGF wesbite needs > to look easy. > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:43 AM, Yehuda Katz > wrote: > > What do you guys want in a IGF website? > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > -- Aaron Agien Nyangkwe Journalist/Outcome Mapper Special Assistant To The President Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. ASAFE P.O.Box 5213 Douala-Cameroon Tel. 237 3337 50 22 Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 Fax. 237 3342 29 70 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au Thu Jul 24 10:19:52 2008 From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? Message-ID: <682264.66319.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> While some/all/most of these suggestions are quite good, one must keep in mind who is going to have the time to update and manage the site, and even to create the content. It's no good saying we will do x and y and z, and then finding it's done in an ad hoc manner, or not even at all. David ----- Original Message ---- From: Lee W McKnight To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Nyangkwe Agien Aaron ; governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Sent: Friday, 25 July, 2008 12:02:34 AM Subject: RE: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? RE: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? it should be easy for different linguistic communities, if they so chose, to build and maintain their own versions, with a 'click here' button at the top for Chinese or Spanish or whatever -----Original Message----- From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron [mailto:nyangkweagien at gmail.com] Sent: Thu 7/24/2008 6:32 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Subject: Re: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? Hello Sivasubramanian's proposals are exhaustive. And I'll add that we include a "Quote of the Day" in which the forum administrators highlight a landmark statement made by a participant of the Forum during the a day. This alone can incite more visits to the site as well. Aaron On 7/24/08, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > Hello > > The IGF website needs to be designed for the common man who has no idea of > what IGF is all about. It needs to have basic introductory information about > IGF, about previous IGFs, the forthcoming IGFs and about ways of > participating in the IGF. > > It should have an easy to work around Web 2.0 interface with collaborative > tools to connect for the expert user. It can have a column for the IGF > secreatriate to make annoncements, pages where contact and procedural > information pertaining to proposals, participation, fellowships etc are > posted in an uncluttered format. It needs to include the discussion forums > etc. as in intgovforum.org or at least a page with links to the existing > forums. > > The intgovfourm.org has a "technie" look and feel, the new IGF wesbite needs > to look easy. > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:43 AM, Yehuda Katz > wrote: > > What do you guys want in a IGF website? > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > -- Aaron Agien Nyangkwe Journalist/Outcome Mapper Special Assistant To The President Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. ASAFE P.O.Box 5213 Douala-Cameroon Tel. 237 3337 50 22 Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 Fax. 237 3342 29 70 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From lmcknigh at syr.edu Thu Jul 24 10:32:52 2008 From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:32:52 -0400 Subject: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? References: <682264.66319.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <63EEA1034C8EF14ABF56503CDC9A646E3D4F16@SUEXCL-03.ad.syr.edu> Actually I think it is good if it is done in an ad hoc, self-organized way, as much as possible. Lee -----Original Message----- From: David Goldstein [mailto:goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au] Sent: Thu 7/24/2008 10:19 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? While some/all/most of these suggestions are quite good, one must keep in mind who is going to have the time to update and manage the site, and even to create the content. It's no good saying we will do x and y and z, and then finding it's done in an ad hoc manner, or not even at all. David ----- Original Message ---- From: Lee W McKnight To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Nyangkwe Agien Aaron ; governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Sent: Friday, 25 July, 2008 12:02:34 AM Subject: RE: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? RE: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? it should be easy for different linguistic communities, if they so chose, to build and maintain their own versions, with a 'click here' button at the top for Chinese or Spanish or whatever -----Original Message----- From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron [mailto:nyangkweagien at gmail.com] Sent: Thu 7/24/2008 6:32 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Subject: Re: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? Hello Sivasubramanian's proposals are exhaustive. And I'll add that we include a "Quote of the Day" in which the forum administrators highlight a landmark statement made by a participant of the Forum during the a day. This alone can incite more visits to the site as well. Aaron On 7/24/08, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > Hello > > The IGF website needs to be designed for the common man who has no idea of > what IGF is all about. It needs to have basic introductory information about > IGF, about previous IGFs, the forthcoming IGFs and about ways of > participating in the IGF. > > It should have an easy to work around Web 2.0 interface with collaborative > tools to connect for the expert user. It can have a column for the IGF > secreatriate to make annoncements, pages where contact and procedural > information pertaining to proposals, participation, fellowships etc are > posted in an uncluttered format. It needs to include the discussion forums > etc. as in intgovforum.org or at least a page with links to the existing > forums. > > The intgovfourm.org has a "technie" look and feel, the new IGF wesbite needs > to look easy. > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:43 AM, Yehuda Katz > wrote: > > What do you guys want in a IGF website? > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > -- Aaron Agien Nyangkwe Journalist/Outcome Mapper Special Assistant To The President Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. ASAFE P.O.Box 5213 Douala-Cameroon Tel. 237 3337 50 22 Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 Fax. 237 3342 29 70 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Thu Jul 24 11:13:14 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:43:14 +0530 Subject: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? In-Reply-To: <63EEA1034C8EF14ABF56503CDC9A646E3D4F16@SUEXCL-03.ad.syr.edu> References: <682264.66319.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <63EEA1034C8EF14ABF56503CDC9A646E3D4F16@SUEXCL-03.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: Hello All, I want to expand it a little more. I have come across comments in this and other lists related to the diversity of participation at the IGFs. One reason why the IGF is not inclusive is that the debates so far are largely confined to a technical and policy making elite. It is very positive to see so many eminent professionals taking part in the debates and the policy making process, but Internet is huge and it is more international than any thing that ever happened on earth. It requires greater participation in debates, requires to consider more diverse view points. Can we think of levels or layers of participation? A list like this could continue to be of the same caliber of subscribers, an official website such as intgovfourm.org can be more of an administrative interface, but the new IGF website could be a multi-level or a multi-layered web - a level/layer in the nature of an ORKUT or a facebook as a 'general' dmz level for exposure of the issues to the non-technical common man, - another level/layer in the nature of LinkedIn Answers or Yahoo Answers as a 'participate' level and - deeper level/layer in the nature of the present CPSR list as a 'policy-making' level This would be a combined web, where it should be possible for anyone (in total, hundreds of thousands of members) to move his way up. At each level the members would observe the self-regulatory conventions and etiquettes of the level. Each layer would have features suitable for the visitors/subscribers of the layer. For instance Aaron Agien Nyangkwe's suggestion of "Quote for the Day" would be in the nature of an easy to view and understand "story" at the 'general' level for the common man to understand something new about the Internet / Internet Governance. At the CPSR level, it could be a salient comment related to policy-making drawn from the discussions in the CPSR list. There can be various models and we can think deeper to come up with a site architecture and content design. Thank you Sivasubramanian Muthusamy On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:02 PM, Lee W McKnight wrote: > Actually I think it is good if it is done in an ad hoc, self-organized > way, as much as possible. > > Lee > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Goldstein [mailto:goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au > ] > Sent: Thu 7/24/2008 10:19 AM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: Re: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? > > While some/all/most of these suggestions are quite good, one must keep in > mind who is going to have the time to update and manage the site, and even > to create the content. It's no good saying we will do x and y and z, and > then finding it's done in an ad hoc manner, or not even at all. > > David > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lee W McKnight > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Nyangkwe Agien Aaron < > nyangkweagien at gmail.com>; governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian > Muthusamy > Sent: Friday, 25 July, 2008 12:02:34 AM > Subject: RE: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? > > RE: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? > it should be easy for different linguistic communities, if they so chose, > to build and maintain their own versions, with a 'click here' button at the > top for Chinese or Spanish or whatever > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron [mailto:nyangkweagien at gmail.com > ] > Sent: Thu 7/24/2008 6:32 AM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > Subject: Re: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? > > Hello > > Sivasubramanian's proposals are exhaustive. > And I'll add that we include a "Quote of the Day" in which the forum > administrators highlight a landmark statement made by a participant of > the Forum during the a day. This alone can incite more visits to the > site as well. > > Aaron > > On 7/24/08, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > > Hello > > > > The IGF website needs to be designed for the common man who has no idea > of > > what IGF is all about. It needs to have basic introductory information > about > > IGF, about previous IGFs, the forthcoming IGFs and about ways of > > participating in the IGF. > > > > It should have an easy to work around Web 2.0 interface with > collaborative > > tools to connect for the expert user. It can have a column for the IGF > > secreatriate to make annoncements, pages where contact and procedural > > information pertaining to proposals, participation, fellowships etc are > > posted in an uncluttered format. It needs to include the discussion > forums > > etc. as in intgovforum.org or at least a page with links to the existing > > forums. > > > > The intgovfourm.org has a "technie" look and feel, the new IGF wesbite > needs > > to look easy. > > > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > -- > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:43 AM, Yehuda Katz > > wrote: > > > What do you guys want in a IGF website? > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > > -- > Aaron Agien Nyangkwe > Journalist/Outcome Mapper > Special Assistant To The President > Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. > ASAFE > P.O.Box 5213 > Douala-Cameroon > Tel. 237 3337 50 22 > Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 > Fax. 237 3342 29 70 > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. > www.yahoo7.com.au > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au Thu Jul 24 11:17:00 2008 From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? Message-ID: <159213.79503.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I'd be keen to know of examples of websites that are relevant and continue to be useful that are "done in an ad hoc, self-organized way, as much as possible". David ----- Original Message ---- From: Lee W McKnight To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; David Goldstein ; governance at lists.cpsr.org Sent: Friday, 25 July, 2008 12:32:52 AM Subject: RE: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? Actually I think it is good if it is done in an ad hoc, self-organized way, as much as possible. Lee -----Original Message----- From: David Goldstein [mailto:goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au] Sent: Thu 7/24/2008 10:19 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? While some/all/most of these suggestions are quite good, one must keep in mind who is going to have the time to update and manage the site, and even to create the content. It's no good saying we will do x and y and z, and then finding it's done in an ad hoc manner, or not even at all. David ----- Original Message ---- From: Lee W McKnight To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Nyangkwe Agien Aaron ; governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Sent: Friday, 25 July, 2008 12:02:34 AM Subject: RE: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? RE: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? it should be easy for different linguistic communities, if they so chose, to build and maintain their own versions, with a 'click here' button at the top for Chinese or Spanish or whatever -----Original Message----- From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron [mailto:nyangkweagien at gmail.com] Sent: Thu 7/24/2008 6:32 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Subject: Re: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? Hello Sivasubramanian's proposals are exhaustive. And I'll add that we include a "Quote of the Day" in which the forum administrators highlight a landmark statement made by a participant of the Forum during the a day. This alone can incite more visits to the site as well. Aaron On 7/24/08, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > Hello > > The IGF website needs to be designed for the common man who has no idea of > what IGF is all about. It needs to have basic introductory information about > IGF, about previous IGFs, the forthcoming IGFs and about ways of > participating in the IGF. > > It should have an easy to work around Web 2.0 interface with collaborative > tools to connect for the expert user. It can have a column for the IGF > secreatriate to make annoncements, pages where contact and procedural > information pertaining to proposals, participation, fellowships etc are > posted in an uncluttered format. It needs to include the discussion forums > etc. as in intgovforum.org or at least a page with links to the existing > forums. > > The intgovfourm.org has a "technie" look and feel, the new IGF wesbite needs > to look easy. > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:43 AM, Yehuda Katz > wrote: > > What do you guys want in a IGF website? > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > -- Aaron Agien Nyangkwe Journalist/Outcome Mapper Special Assistant To The President Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. ASAFE P.O.Box 5213 Douala-Cameroon Tel. 237 3337 50 22 Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 Fax. 237 3342 29 70 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Thu Jul 24 14:03:31 2008 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:03:31 +0100 Subject: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message , at 12:32:06 on Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Nyangkwe Agien Aaron writes >I'll add that we include a "Quote of the Day" in which the forum >administrators highlight a landmark statement made by a participant of >the Forum during the a day. Assuming this is the Forum during the week in December, not the Forum the other 51 weeks in Cyberspace... This seems to require some sort of "Editor of the day" who has received input from several dozen sessions, lobbyists who want their boss quoted, and the IGF secretariat who are writing the formal reports. And then makes a decision. -- Roland Perry ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From lmcknigh at syr.edu Thu Jul 24 15:59:45 2008 From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:59:45 -0400 Subject: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? References: <159213.79503.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <63EEA1034C8EF14ABF56503CDC9A646E3D4F1C@SUEXCL-03.ad.syr.edu> Picking up on Sivasubramanian's suggested approach, without necessarily endorsing his three layers to our exalted inned sanctum, I agree that it makes more sense to think of the IGF site like the websites of facebook or youtube or linked-in, where some structural elements are set by 'central' web designers but the actual experience (and the content) is incredibly varied depending upon one's self-organized interests, and what one chooses to post. Of course in Sivasubraian's examples there is paid staff doing things, but what they are not doing is micromanaging everyone's experience or blocking people's ability to post. So this would not get us away from the issue of who is managing the IGF site and how is it sustained. (Maybe advertising if we can drive up click-throughs? ; ) It also does not guarantee uniform quality, but does maximize ability for people to self-organize around interests and add content as they wish, without central gatekeepers slowing things down and mucking things up. Lee -----Original Message----- From: David Goldstein [mailto:goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au] Sent: Thu 7/24/2008 11:17 AM To: Governance Mailing List Subject: Re: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? I'd be keen to know of examples of websites that are relevant and continue to be useful that are "done in an ad hoc, self-organized way, as much as possible". David ----- Original Message ---- From: Lee W McKnight To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; David Goldstein ; governance at lists.cpsr.org Sent: Friday, 25 July, 2008 12:32:52 AM Subject: RE: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? Actually I think it is good if it is done in an ad hoc, self-organized way, as much as possible. Lee -----Original Message----- From: David Goldstein [mailto:goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au] Sent: Thu 7/24/2008 10:19 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? While some/all/most of these suggestions are quite good, one must keep in mind who is going to have the time to update and manage the site, and even to create the content. It's no good saying we will do x and y and z, and then finding it's done in an ad hoc manner, or not even at all. David ----- Original Message ---- From: Lee W McKnight To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Nyangkwe Agien Aaron ; governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Sent: Friday, 25 July, 2008 12:02:34 AM Subject: RE: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? RE: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? it should be easy for different linguistic communities, if they so chose, to build and maintain their own versions, with a 'click here' button at the top for Chinese or Spanish or whatever -----Original Message----- From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron [mailto:nyangkweagien at gmail.com] Sent: Thu 7/24/2008 6:32 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Subject: Re: [governance] What do you guys want in a IGF website? Hello Sivasubramanian's proposals are exhaustive. And I'll add that we include a "Quote of the Day" in which the forum administrators highlight a landmark statement made by a participant of the Forum during the a day. This alone can incite more visits to the site as well. Aaron On 7/24/08, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > Hello > > The IGF website needs to be designed for the common man who has no idea of > what IGF is all about. It needs to have basic introductory information about > IGF, about previous IGFs, the forthcoming IGFs and about ways of > participating in the IGF. > > It should have an easy to work around Web 2.0 interface with collaborative > tools to connect for the expert user. It can have a column for the IGF > secreatriate to make annoncements, pages where contact and procedural > information pertaining to proposals, participation, fellowships etc are > posted in an uncluttered format. It needs to include the discussion forums > etc. as in intgovforum.org or at least a page with links to the existing > forums. > > The intgovfourm.org has a "technie" look and feel, the new IGF wesbite needs > to look easy. > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:43 AM, Yehuda Katz > wrote: > > What do you guys want in a IGF website? > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > -- Aaron Agien Nyangkwe Journalist/Outcome Mapper Special Assistant To The President Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. ASAFE P.O.Box 5213 Douala-Cameroon Tel. 237 3337 50 22 Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 Fax. 237 3342 29 70 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 23 21:24:08 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:24:08 -0700 Subject: [governance] ICANN Opens Public Comment Period on Czech Arbitration Court Proposed Pilot Projects Message-ID: <4887D9B8.46C63C0@ix.netcom.com> All, As an FYI of an actual issue: http://www.icann.org/en/announcements/announcement-22jul08-en.htm ICANN Opens Public Comment Period on Czech Arbitration Court Proposed Pilot Projects 22 July 2008 ICANN has received a request from the Czech Arbitration Court (CAC) to run two pilot projects related to its implementation of UDRP. Background to Posting CAC was approved as a UDRP provider at the Board meeting on 23 January 2008. CAC wishes to run tests of the following two UDRP-related services as part of its implementation of UDRP: A. Simplified way of sending signed hardcopies of Complaints and/or Responses to the Provider (Par. 3(b), Par. 5(b)) of the UDRP Rules. This pilot project aims at exploring and testing the legal and practical implications of a service that would enable parties to submit hardcopies of the complaints/responses in a simplified way. B. Service of delivery of signed hard copies. This pilot project seeks to explore and test the legal and practical implications of a new service related to e-UDRP consisting of the printing and delivering of signed electronic documents. ICANN has at the request of CAC agreed to post for public comment the description of the pilot projects for a period of thirty days (30), along with a report on the pilot project by professor Chris Reed, a recognized international authority on technology law and electronic commerce law . Those wishing to comment are encouraged to do so and to make their comments not later than 21 August 2008. Comments may be submitted by email to cac-pilot at icann.org and may be viewed at http://forum.icann.org/lists/cac-pilot. Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Thu Jul 24 20:36:43 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] What 'Categorical Topics' would you list on the IGF website? Message-ID: Sivasubramanian, Aaron, Linda, Lee, David, and Roland, DONE. Linda, yours is a tall-order (re.: in terms of communication modalities) that may take some time, but we can do it. Sivasubramanian, you analogies too LinkedIn Answers or Yahoo Answers are easily implemented, however I need more information as to the Categorical-References that would be listed. For example, when we take a look at Ainslie Johnson's website we see the following Categorical selections: Link: http://igf-online.net/?language=en Categories Access Best Practices Forum Critical Internet Resources Development and Capacity Building Diversity Dynamic Coalition Events Online tools Open Forum Openness Security Uncategorized Workshop Archives - These select Topics could be use to supplant the 'Categories' you would see on; LinkedIn Answers http://www.linkedin.com/answers?trk=tab_answers and Yahoo Answers http://answers.yahoo.com/ -- In my opinion, without being to broad or to technical, these are Categories I would like to see in the IGF: 1. Self-Vesting What can we do for our own .CC self? (Country .CC Dev) 2. Developing the Local Market (Local Dev) What kind of Advertising / Media / Commerce works best? 3. Culturing Skilled Programers (Education) How can we educate young-minds with useful Web-skills? 4. Nurturing Public and Civic activities (Social Interaction) How can we enable Citizen, Civic, and Public organizations? -- What 'Categorical Topics' would you list on the IGF website? ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 23 23:24:05 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:24:05 -0700 Subject: [governance] What 'Categorical Topics' would you list on the References: Message-ID: <4887F5D5.97E629C9@ix.netcom.com> Yehuda and all, I would urge that Yahoo not be used as currently Yahoo has a significant security vulnerability in DNS. See: http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=yahoo.com&token=27201d4a1bc988aa0355408112979019 Should it be used, it would become necessary as a matter of law for me to submit a specific complaint accordingly. Yehuda Katz wrote: > Sivasubramanian, Aaron, Linda, Lee, David, and Roland, > > DONE. > > Linda, yours is a tall-order (re.: in terms of communication modalities) that > may take some time, but we can do it. > > Sivasubramanian, you analogies too LinkedIn Answers or Yahoo Answers are easily > implemented, however I need more information as to the Categorical-References > that would be listed. > > For example, when we take a look at Ainslie Johnson's website we see the > following Categorical selections: > > Link: http://igf-online.net/?language=en > > Categories > Access > Best Practices Forum > Critical Internet Resources > Development and Capacity Building > Diversity > Dynamic Coalition > Events > Online tools > Open Forum > Openness > Security > Uncategorized > Workshop > Archives > - > > These select Topics could be use to supplant the 'Categories' you would see > on; > > LinkedIn Answers > http://www.linkedin.com/answers?trk=tab_answers > > and > > Yahoo Answers > http://answers.yahoo.com/ > -- > > In my opinion, without being to broad or to technical, these are Categories > I would like to see in the IGF: > > 1. > Self-Vesting > What can we do for our own .CC self? (Country .CC Dev) > > 2. > Developing the Local Market (Local Dev) > What kind of Advertising / Media / Commerce works best? > > 3. > Culturing Skilled Programers (Education) > How can we educate young-minds with useful Web-skills? > > 4. > Nurturing Public and Civic activities (Social Interaction) > How can we enable Citizen, Civic, and Public organizations? > > -- > > What 'Categorical Topics' would you list on the IGF website? > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Thu Jul 24 21:50:48 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:50:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] What 'Categorical Topics' would you list on the In-Reply-To: 4887F5D5.97E629C9@ix.netcom.com Message-ID: Jeff, could you please elaborate on: >[re: Yahoo] >Should it be used, it would become necessary as a matter of law for >me to submit a specific complaint accordingly. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Thu Jul 24 00:11:35 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:11:35 -0700 Subject: [governance] What 'Categorical Topics' would you list on the References: Message-ID: <488800F7.FE4C3E7F@ix.netcom.com> Yheuda and all, I believe it has already been announced via CERT that there is and has been for some years DNS security "Holes" that can be very damaging to anyone whom my visit or exchange any data with DN's that obviously have this security hole currently. Yahoo is one of these and has yet to correct the problem for whatever reason as per the DNSreport I sent and you seemingly edited out in your response. Here it is again, and is self explanatory: http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=yahoo.com&token=27201d4a1bc988aa0355408112979019 Yehuda Katz wrote: > Jeff, could you please elaborate on: > > >[re: Yahoo] > >Should it be used, it would become necessary as a matter of law for > >me to submit a specific complaint accordingly. > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Thu Jul 24 22:54:32 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] What 'Categorical Topics' would you list on the In-Reply-To: 488800F7.FE4C3E7F@ix.netcom.com Message-ID: Jeff, you simply have to understand that this list is not a 'strictly technical' group of people. ICANN's ALAC atlarge-list is for that. http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/pipermail/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org/2008q3/thread.html This list is generally for 'Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility - CPSR' wherein we are concerned in matters relating to 'Social Responsibility', and how to best Govern matters. Technical aspect are secondary or lower to the primary subject matter. I just wanted a simple explanation of why you would "submit a specific complaint accordingly" and 'What would be the complaint', and to whom you would address the "complaint" As to editing. please find below your full editorial: Re: Yehuda and all, I would urge that Yahoo not be used as currently Yahoo has a significant security vulnerability in DNS. See: http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=yahoo.com&token=27201d4a1bc988aa0355408112979019 Should it be used, it would become necessary as a matter of law for me to submit a specific complaint accordingly. -- I am a simple Man, so simple answers work best for Me. Maybe you could explain it in layman terms, I'm not looking for argument, I'm far to old for that. So if you would please, try again. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Thu Jul 24 04:33:43 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:33:43 -0700 Subject: [governance] What 'Categorical Topics' would you list on the References: Message-ID: <48883E67.96B6BF51@ix.netcom.com> Yehuda and all, I fully understand that this list forum isn't a "Strictly Technical" group, and it shouldn't be, IMO. That has nothing what so ever to do with what I suggested. BTW, I am already on the ALAC list... And BTW, it also is not a "Strictly Technical" list forum either... Oh yes, and also BTW, I am not a "Strictly Technical" person either. So perhaps expanding your thought processes would be in order... So your point is to my suggestion is? Yehuda Katz wrote: > Jeff, you simply have to understand that this list is not a 'strictly > technical' group of people. > ICANN's ALAC atlarge-list is for that. > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/pipermail/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org/2008q3/thread.html > > This list is generally for 'Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility - > CPSR' wherein we are concerned in matters relating to 'Social Responsibility', > and how to best Govern matters. > > Technical aspect are secondary or lower to the primary subject matter. > > I just wanted a simple explanation of why you would "submit a specific > complaint accordingly" and 'What would be the complaint', and to whom you > would address the "complaint" > > As to editing. please find below your full editorial: > > Re: > Yehuda and all, > > I would urge that Yahoo not be used as currently Yahoo has a significant > security vulnerability in DNS. > > See: > http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=yahoo.com&token=27201d4a1bc988aa0355408112979019 > > Should it be used, it would become necessary as a matter of law for me to > submit a specific complaint accordingly. > > -- > > I am a simple Man, so simple answers work best for Me. > Maybe you could explain it in layman terms, I'm not looking for argument, I'm > far to old for that. > > So if you would please, try again. > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Fri Jul 25 08:19:03 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] What 'Categorical Topics' would you list on the In-Reply-To: 48883E67.96B6BF51@ix.netcom.com Message-ID: So, my point is, Why would you post a comment like: "" I would urge that Yahoo not be used as currently Yahoo has a significant security vulnerability in DNS. See: http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=yahoo.com&token=27201d4a1bc988aa0355408112979019 Should it be used, it would become necessary as a matter of law for me to submit a specific complaint accordingly. "" When someone had a great suggestion, that being to use Yahoo Answers. Yahoo Tech groups has 310,883 specialized IT Groups. Obviously 310,883 Yahoo Groups do not feel that the: "significant security vulnerability in DNS" is material enough to discontinue activities. Could you please answer my questions Jeff: 1. Why you would "submit a specific complaint accordingly"? 2.'What would be the complaint'? 3. To whom you would address the "complaint"? - Please find below your full editorial: Re: Yehuda and all, I would urge that Yahoo not be used as currently Yahoo has a significant security vulnerability in DNS. See: http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=yahoo.com&token=27201d4a1bc988aa0355408112979019 Should it be used, it would become necessary as a matter of law for me to submit a specific complaint accordingly. -- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Fri Jul 25 08:21:46 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] What 'Categorical Topics' do you guys want in a IGF website? In-Reply-To: sympa.1216946060.61520.704@lists.cpsr.org Message-ID: What 'Categorical Topics' do you guys want in a IGF website? ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ajp at glocom.ac.jp Fri Jul 25 12:59:21 2008 From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 01:59:21 +0900 Subject: [governance] Official invitation for the Third IGF Meeting Message-ID: The UN Secretary General's invitation to the third IGF meeting, Hyderabad, India (3-6 December 2008) is online The invitation is made by Under-Secretary-General Sha Zukang on behalf of the Secretary-General. Adam ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ajp at glocom.ac.jp Fri Jul 25 12:58:49 2008 From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 01:58:49 +0900 Subject: [governance] important: Comments on the programme paper - deadline August 15 Message-ID: Hi, Comments on the Hyderabad programme paper should be submitted by August 15. Programme is online at Thanks, Adam ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Thu Jul 24 20:28:14 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:28:14 -0700 Subject: [governance] What 'Categorical Topics' would you list on the References: Message-ID: <48891E1D.57A9E471@ix.netcom.com> Yehuda and all, Because Yahoo represents currently a significant security threat accordingly and that you suggested that Yahoo perhaps be used for "Topics". That was an unwise and potentially dangerous "Governance" suggestion for obvious and already stated reasons. Yehuda Katz wrote: > So, my point is, Why would you post a comment like: > > "" I would urge that Yahoo not be used as currently Yahoo has a significant > security vulnerability in DNS. > > See: > http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=yahoo.com&token=27201d4a1bc988aa0355408112979019 > > Should it be used, it would become necessary as a matter of law for me to > submit a specific complaint accordingly. "" > > When someone had a great suggestion, that being to use Yahoo Answers. Yahoo > Tech groups has 310,883 specialized IT Groups. Obviously 310,883 Yahoo Groups > do not feel that the: "significant security vulnerability in DNS" is material > enough to discontinue activities. > > Could you please answer my questions Jeff: > > 1. > Why you would "submit a specific complaint accordingly"? > > 2.'What would be the complaint'? > > 3. To whom you would address the "complaint"? > > - > > Please find below your full editorial: > > Re: > Yehuda and all, > > I would urge that Yahoo not be used as currently Yahoo has a significant > security vulnerability in DNS. > > See: > http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=yahoo.com&token=27201d4a1bc988aa0355408112979019 > > Should it be used, it would become necessary as a matter of law for me to > submit a specific complaint accordingly. > > -- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sun Jul 27 01:38:27 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:08:27 +0530 Subject: [governance] voting process - various issues Message-ID: <20080727053901.8BCB9E159E@smtp3.electricembers.net> Hi All I am enclosing a note on various issues that have come up regarding the voting process for the election of co-coordinator. I should be able to declare the method to be used for voting by Tuesday, and give three days for comments. Meanwhile I will also clarify some other quires that have been raised which are not covered by this note. Parminder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: note on voting process 270708.doc Type: application/msword Size: 48128 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: note on voting process 270708.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 19356 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sun Jul 27 01:48:01 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:18:01 +0530 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list Message-ID: <20080727054821.ABA0E6782B@smtp1.electricembers.net> Enclosed is another note on issues surrounding the making of a standing IGC members list, which in some crucial ways is connected to the voting process issue. It leads on to the need for discussing the nature of the group and its membership, and orienting it to effectively carrying out its self-defined tasks. Parminder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Note on a standing IGC members list 270708.doc Type: application/msword Size: 42496 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Note on a standing IGC members list 270708.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 15011 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 26 05:31:46 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:31:46 -0700 Subject: [governance] PRO-IP and PIRATE Acts Fused Into New Bill Message-ID: <488AEF02.308EE305@ix.netcom.com> All, Another actual issue instead of endless process arguments: See: http://www.eff.org/support I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Senators Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and Arlen Specter (R-PA) have just http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080725-senator-fuses-controversial-ip-bills-into-big-bad-package.html sponsored a new bill, the Enforcement of Intellectual Property Rights Act of 2008, which would combine the worst parts of the http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/07/0647207&tid=149 PRO-IP Act and the http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/24/1329218&tid=103 PIRATE Act. The basic idea is pretty simple: expand the Federal government to create something like the Department of Homeland Security for IP. The Copyright Czar then polices the internet and clogs the courts with thousands of civil lawsuits against individual infringers so the RIAA doesn't have to. Feel free to http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml contact your representatives with your feelings about this bill. Right now, they believe http://arstechnica.com/news.media/Senate_Enforcement_IP_Act_7-24-08-1.pdf the bill (PDF) will 'protect jobs.'" Frankly I cant see how this bill protects jobs at all. I can see how it might create additional staff jobs for the USG at the taxpayers expense. Seems to me that Copywriter's protection is the job of the Copywrite owner/holder as it has traditionally been for many decades. This bill would seem to reverse that and make it largely the job of a to be newly created government department at the expense of the Tax payer. A hidden tax increase?! I wonder it the courts are or will be prepared for the onslaught. Given recent judiciary hearings/caucases indicating a shortage of Judges, my guess is the courts are not nearly prepared. If one was to read between the lines here a bit and is armed with some historical case information, one might surmise that due to a significant string of court defeats by the RIAA, and for good cause, as well as the USTR having difficulty enforcing Patent's for perscription drugs being reporduced under TRIPS agreements reducing the cost to consumers but also reducing huge profits to US drug companies, that this legislation is aimed to rise the cost bar for litigation by defendants in an effort to price the "Average Joe" out of receiving actual justice. I can't say that I would support this bill... I hope our members and others will see this bill in a similar light. I think there are some rats in the old wood pile here, and their initials are RIAA/MPAA/ACTA. Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Sun Jul 27 10:07:07 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 07:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list In-Reply-To: 20080727054821.ABA0E6782B@smtp1.electricembers.net Message-ID: Parminder, I have requested that the Ballots be received by POST, regardless or in-conjunction with the electronic method. Physical evidence to validate the voting census is paramount. I reassert that request here again. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Sun Jul 27 10:47:39 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 07:47:39 -0700 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009801c8eff7$b8084750$89cc5318@michael78xnoln> Is this a joke? MG -----Original Message----- From: Yehuda Katz [mailto:yehudakatz at mailinator.com] Sent: July 27, 2008 7:07 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list Parminder, I have requested that the Ballots be received by POST, regardless or in-conjunction with the electronic method. Physical evidence to validate the voting census is paramount. I reassert that request here again. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From email at hakik.org Sun Jul 27 11:12:48 2008 From: email at hakik.org (Hakikur Rahman) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:12:48 +0600 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080727152154.AD415E04C7@smtp3.electricembers.net> Normal POST does not work efficiently in many countries. We are talking about Internet Governance and thinking something else! Regards, Hakik At 08:07 PM 7/27/2008, Yehuda Katz wrote: >Parminder, > >I have requested that the Ballots be received by POST, >regardless or in-conjunction with the electronic method. > >Physical evidence to validate the voting census is paramount. > >I reassert that request here again. >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org >To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sun Jul 27 11:32:04 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:02:04 +0530 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080727153301.DBFA4A6C51@smtp2.electricembers.net> Yehuda Sorry, I should have replied to your suggestion when it was initially offered during discussions on the voting process. I had filed it for replying but then it just dropped off my mind. I have considered this suggestion but am deciding to work only through online means. It will be too much trouble posting ballots, and then member posting it back. I am convinced that the online process will adequately meet the security and trust requirement for this process. Thanks. Parminder > -----Original Message----- > From: Yehuda Katz [mailto:yehudakatz at mailinator.com] > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 7:37 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: Re: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list > > Parminder, > > I have requested that the Ballots be received by POST, > regardless or in-conjunction with the electronic method. > > Physical evidence to validate the voting census is paramount. > > I reassert that request here again. > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Sun Jul 27 13:21:05 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list In-Reply-To: 20080727153301.DBFA4A6C51@smtp2.electricembers.net Message-ID: In that case, I want to duly note that the request for Authenticate of the Vote by POSTAL means was denied, with my Objection. - Having witnessed several of these "On-line" IG-Governance type of elections, Those being: 1. Icann's At-large Elections [Wherein 64,000 voters were disenfranchised] 2. Icann-at-Large Elections [.Org &.Com / Jeffsey & Joop sites respectively] 3. ICANN ALAC Elections [Past] - In fairness to 'Your' argument please refer to this article: International Association for Cryptologic Research Secure Online Elections in Practice http://eprint.iacr.org/2008/157.pdf http://www.iacr.org/ Wherein the examination of four (4) 'state-of-the-art' e-voting protocols are evaluated with a number of security objectives. - Paraminder, does your system meet the criteria set forth by the IACR.Org? Again, I offer to offset the POSTAL cost of holding the Vote/Census. Secondly, I propose that a POSTAL Census be taken on a 'once annually basis'. - P.S.: Honestly I do not understand your objections, what? once a year you have to send in a letter. Really is a little dedication to this matter, that much of a hassle. I don't get it. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ginger at paque.net Sun Jul 27 13:28:39 2008 From: ginger at paque.net (Ginger Paque) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:58:39 -0430 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list-postal vote In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <488cb059.1bbc720a.7644.624c@mx.google.com> While I understand Yehuda's concern about a physical verification, I do not think this situation requires a paper trail in this case, given the level of difficulty of implementation (time and expense, deficiency of many delivery systems) and the low level of likelihood of gross error. I support the decision to carry out email only balloting in this case. -----Mensaje original----- De: Yehuda Katz [mailto:yehudakatz at mailinator.com] Enviado el: Domingo, 27 de Julio de 2008 12:51 p.m. Para: governance at lists.cpsr.org Asunto: RE: RE: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list In that case, I want to duly note that the request for Authenticate of the Vote by POSTAL means was denied, with my Objection. - Having witnessed several of these "On-line" IG-Governance type of elections, Those being: 1. Icann's At-large Elections [Wherein 64,000 voters were disenfranchised] 2. Icann-at-Large Elections [.Org &.Com / Jeffsey & Joop sites respectively] 3. ICANN ALAC Elections [Past] - In fairness to 'Your' argument please refer to this article: International Association for Cryptologic Research Secure Online Elections in Practice http://eprint.iacr.org/2008/157.pdf http://www.iacr.org/ Wherein the examination of four (4) 'state-of-the-art' e-voting protocols are evaluated with a number of security objectives. - Paraminder, does your system meet the criteria set forth by the IACR.Org? Again, I offer to offset the POSTAL cost of holding the Vote/Census. Secondly, I propose that a POSTAL Census be taken on a 'once annually basis'. - P.S.: Honestly I do not understand your objections, what? once a year you have to send in a letter. Really is a little dedication to this matter, that much of a hassle. I don't get it. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ca at rits.org.br Sun Jul 27 14:00:54 2008 From: ca at rits.org.br (Carlos Afonso) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 15:00:54 -0300 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list-postal In-Reply-To: <488cb059.1bbc720a.7644.624c@mx.google.com> References: <488cb059.1bbc720a.7644.624c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <488CB7D6.7010008@rits.org.br> Besides, frankly, what are the grounds for believing this election might be rigged??? It is curious, we are based on an informal arrangement of peers, but when it comes to deciding something by voting, we start having all concerns typical of a formally constituted congress or association??? CGI.br has offered its secure online voting system on a voluntary basis. If there are questions even before anyone knows details of the system, I will be glad (or sad) to request CGI.br not to offer it (I do not want to cause absolutely any trouble to them), and let us go for a sophisticated one, perhaps hiring (!!!) Diebold? We lose a lot of time in silly parlance... :( --c.a. Ginger Paque wrote: > While I understand Yehuda's concern about a physical verification, I do not > think this situation requires a paper trail in this case, given the level of > difficulty of implementation (time and expense, deficiency of many delivery > systems) and the low level of likelihood of gross error. I support the > decision to carry out email only balloting in this case. > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Yehuda Katz [mailto:yehudakatz at mailinator.com] > Enviado el: Domingo, 27 de Julio de 2008 12:51 p.m. > Para: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Asunto: RE: RE: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list > > In that case, I want to duly note that the request for Authenticate of the > Vote > by POSTAL means was denied, with my Objection. > > - > > Having witnessed several of these "On-line" IG-Governance type of elections, > Those being: > 1. Icann's At-large Elections [Wherein 64,000 voters were disenfranchised] > 2. Icann-at-Large Elections [.Org &.Com / Jeffsey & Joop sites respectively] > 3. ICANN ALAC Elections [Past] > > - > > In fairness to 'Your' argument please refer to this article: > > International Association for Cryptologic Research > Secure Online Elections in Practice > http://eprint.iacr.org/2008/157.pdf > > http://www.iacr.org/ > > Wherein the examination of four (4) 'state-of-the-art' e-voting protocols > are > evaluated with a number of security objectives. > > - > Paraminder, does your system meet the criteria set forth by the IACR.Org? > > Again, I offer to offset the POSTAL cost of holding the Vote/Census. > Secondly, I propose that a POSTAL Census be taken on a 'once annually > basis'. > - > > P.S.: > Honestly I do not understand your objections, what? once a year you have to > send in a letter. Really is a little dedication to this matter, that much of > a > hassle. > I don't get it. > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Sun Jul 27 16:47:57 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: 488CB7D6.7010008@rits.org.br Message-ID: Foul Carlos, I am not implying anything is "rigged", and I am certain the Paraminder is doing a diligent and thorough job, in a rather difficult matter to handle. I counter your argument with this: How many of 'YOU' go to your respective National Elections and 'VOTE ON-LINE'? --- There are two instances that I know of: The Swiss Canton of Geneva, and The Belgian Government, where they nearly have a Manhunt to track you down and make you vote. (no joke) Refs.: Swiss E-Vote Towards Cybersociety and "Vireal" Social Relations http://socio.ch/intcom/t_hgeser12.htm 2. The postal vote as a major step toward "virtual voting" http://socio.ch/intcom/t_hgeser12.htm#2 5.3.5 Voting procedure http://socio.ch/intcom/t_hgeser12.htm#5.3.5 - Finally, how WE handle our elections, represents us, the 'CPSR Groups'. This is a 1st.-Class Organization, if WE uphold our integrity and backup our reputation. - P.S.: My hats off to the Swiss & Belgians - you rock Democracy! ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 26 20:52:06 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 17:52:06 -0700 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list References: <20080727152154.AD415E04C7@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <488BC6B6.A6B21F9C@ix.netcom.com> Hakikur and all, I fully agree! Such notions are inconsistent with the current and long standing reality. One of the wonderful things about the internet is it's tremendous reach. Normal POST has never achieved this in many decades, and given the political and practical realities, normal POST is not ever likely to in my life time. Ergo, such a notion is spacious at best. Hakikur Rahman wrote: > Normal POST does not work efficiently in many countries. We are > talking about Internet Governance and thinking something else! > > Regards, > Hakik > > At 08:07 PM 7/27/2008, Yehuda Katz wrote: > >Parminder, > > > >I have requested that the Ballots be received by POST, > >regardless or in-conjunction with the electronic method. > > > >Physical evidence to validate the voting census is paramount. > > > >I reassert that request here again. > >____________________________________________________________ > >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > >To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > >For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 26 20:53:23 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 17:53:23 -0700 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list References: <20080727153301.DBFA4A6C51@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <488BC703.AF247091@ix.netcom.com> Parminder and all, Good and wise decision! Parminder wrote: > Yehuda > > Sorry, I should have replied to your suggestion when it was initially > offered during discussions on the voting process. I had filed it for > replying but then it just dropped off my mind. > > I have considered this suggestion but am deciding to work only through > online means. It will be too much trouble posting ballots, and then member > posting it back. I am convinced that the online process will adequately meet > the security and trust requirement for this process. > > Thanks. > > Parminder > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Yehuda Katz [mailto:yehudakatz at mailinator.com] > > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 7:37 PM > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > > Subject: Re: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list > > > > Parminder, > > > > I have requested that the Ballots be received by POST, > > regardless or in-conjunction with the electronic method. > > > > Physical evidence to validate the voting census is paramount. > > > > I reassert that request here again. > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 26 20:54:24 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 17:54:24 -0700 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list References: Message-ID: <488BC73F.1C9A8CDE@ix.netcom.com> Yehuda and all, You can be VERY sure I have noted your objection. Yehuda Katz wrote: > In that case, I want to duly note that the request for Authenticate of the Vote > by POSTAL means was denied, with my Objection. > > - > > Having witnessed several of these "On-line" IG-Governance type of elections, > Those being: > 1. Icann's At-large Elections [Wherein 64,000 voters were disenfranchised] > 2. Icann-at-Large Elections [.Org &.Com / Jeffsey & Joop sites respectively] > 3. ICANN ALAC Elections [Past] > > - > > In fairness to 'Your' argument please refer to this article: > > International Association for Cryptologic Research > Secure Online Elections in Practice > http://eprint.iacr.org/2008/157.pdf > > http://www.iacr.org/ > > Wherein the examination of four (4) 'state-of-the-art' e-voting protocols are > evaluated with a number of security objectives. > > - > Paraminder, does your system meet the criteria set forth by the IACR.Org? > > Again, I offer to offset the POSTAL cost of holding the Vote/Census. > Secondly, I propose that a POSTAL Census be taken on a 'once annually basis'. > - > > P.S.: > Honestly I do not understand your objections, what? once a year you have to > send in a letter. Really is a little dedication to this matter, that much of a > hassle. > I don't get it. > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 26 20:56:35 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 17:56:35 -0700 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list-postal References: <488cb059.1bbc720a.7644.624c@mx.google.com> <488CB7D6.7010008@rits.org.br> Message-ID: <488BC7C3.AF37FDF4@ix.netcom.com> Carlos and all, Surely you jest!? I wouldn't hire Dibold to verify if I had a toilet with three independent witnesses! >:( Carlos Afonso wrote: > Besides, frankly, what are the grounds for believing this election might > be rigged??? > > It is curious, we are based on an informal arrangement of peers, but > when it comes to deciding something by voting, we start having all > concerns typical of a formally constituted congress or association??? > > CGI.br has offered its secure online voting system on a voluntary basis. > If there are questions even before anyone knows details of the system, I > will be glad (or sad) to request CGI.br not to offer it (I do not want > to cause absolutely any trouble to them), and let us go for a > sophisticated one, perhaps hiring (!!!) Diebold? > > We lose a lot of time in silly parlance... :( > > --c.a. > > Ginger Paque wrote: > > While I understand Yehuda's concern about a physical verification, I do not > > think this situation requires a paper trail in this case, given the level of > > difficulty of implementation (time and expense, deficiency of many delivery > > systems) and the low level of likelihood of gross error. I support the > > decision to carry out email only balloting in this case. > > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: Yehuda Katz [mailto:yehudakatz at mailinator.com] > > Enviado el: Domingo, 27 de Julio de 2008 12:51 p.m. > > Para: governance at lists.cpsr.org > > Asunto: RE: RE: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list > > > > In that case, I want to duly note that the request for Authenticate of the > > Vote > > by POSTAL means was denied, with my Objection. > > > > - > > > > Having witnessed several of these "On-line" IG-Governance type of elections, > > Those being: > > 1. Icann's At-large Elections [Wherein 64,000 voters were disenfranchised] > > 2. Icann-at-Large Elections [.Org &.Com / Jeffsey & Joop sites respectively] > > 3. ICANN ALAC Elections [Past] > > > > - > > > > In fairness to 'Your' argument please refer to this article: > > > > International Association for Cryptologic Research > > Secure Online Elections in Practice > > http://eprint.iacr.org/2008/157.pdf > > > > http://www.iacr.org/ > > > > Wherein the examination of four (4) 'state-of-the-art' e-voting protocols > > are > > evaluated with a number of security objectives. > > > > - > > Paraminder, does your system meet the criteria set forth by the IACR.Org? > > > > Again, I offer to offset the POSTAL cost of holding the Vote/Census. > > Secondly, I propose that a POSTAL Census be taken on a 'once annually > > basis'. > > - > > > > P.S.: > > Honestly I do not understand your objections, what? once a year you have to > > send in a letter. Really is a little dedication to this matter, that much of > > a > > hassle. > > I don't get it. > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ca at rits.org.br Sun Jul 27 21:34:39 2008 From: ca at rits.org.br (Carlos Afonso) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:34:39 -0300 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488D222F.6060603@rits.org.br> About 135 million Brazilians, every two years, for all national and local elections. No printed receipt. --c.a. Yehuda Katz wrote: > I counter your argument with this: > > How many of 'YOU' go to your respective National Elections and 'VOTE ON-LINE'? > > --- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ca at rits.org.br Sun Jul 27 21:35:59 2008 From: ca at rits.org.br (Carlos Afonso) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:35:59 -0300 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list-postal In-Reply-To: <488BC7C3.AF37FDF4@ix.netcom.com> References: <488cb059.1bbc720a.7644.624c@mx.google.com> <488CB7D6.7010008@rits.org.br> <488BC7C3.AF37FDF4@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <488D227F.5030207@rits.org.br> :) Me neither... :) --c.a. Jeffrey A. Williams wrote: > Carlos and all, > > Surely you jest!? I wouldn't hire Dibold to verify if I had a toilet > with three independent witnesses! >:( > > Carlos Afonso wrote: > >> Besides, frankly, what are the grounds for believing this election might >> be rigged??? >> >> It is curious, we are based on an informal arrangement of peers, but >> when it comes to deciding something by voting, we start having all >> concerns typical of a formally constituted congress or association??? >> >> CGI.br has offered its secure online voting system on a voluntary basis. >> If there are questions even before anyone knows details of the system, I >> will be glad (or sad) to request CGI.br not to offer it (I do not want >> to cause absolutely any trouble to them), and let us go for a >> sophisticated one, perhaps hiring (!!!) Diebold? >> >> We lose a lot of time in silly parlance... :( >> >> --c.a. >> >> Ginger Paque wrote: >>> While I understand Yehuda's concern about a physical verification, I do not >>> think this situation requires a paper trail in this case, given the level of >>> difficulty of implementation (time and expense, deficiency of many delivery >>> systems) and the low level of likelihood of gross error. I support the >>> decision to carry out email only balloting in this case. >>> >>> -----Mensaje original----- >>> De: Yehuda Katz [mailto:yehudakatz at mailinator.com] >>> Enviado el: Domingo, 27 de Julio de 2008 12:51 p.m. >>> Para: governance at lists.cpsr.org >>> Asunto: RE: RE: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members list >>> >>> In that case, I want to duly note that the request for Authenticate of the >>> Vote >>> by POSTAL means was denied, with my Objection. >>> >>> - >>> >>> Having witnessed several of these "On-line" IG-Governance type of elections, >>> Those being: >>> 1. Icann's At-large Elections [Wherein 64,000 voters were disenfranchised] >>> 2. Icann-at-Large Elections [.Org &.Com / Jeffsey & Joop sites respectively] >>> 3. ICANN ALAC Elections [Past] >>> >>> - >>> >>> In fairness to 'Your' argument please refer to this article: >>> >>> International Association for Cryptologic Research >>> Secure Online Elections in Practice >>> http://eprint.iacr.org/2008/157.pdf >>> >>> http://www.iacr.org/ >>> >>> Wherein the examination of four (4) 'state-of-the-art' e-voting protocols >>> are >>> evaluated with a number of security objectives. >>> >>> - >>> Paraminder, does your system meet the criteria set forth by the IACR.Org? >>> >>> Again, I offer to offset the POSTAL cost of holding the Vote/Census. >>> Secondly, I propose that a POSTAL Census be taken on a 'once annually >>> basis'. >>> - >>> >>> P.S.: >>> Honestly I do not understand your objections, what? once a year you have to >>> send in a letter. Really is a little dedication to this matter, that much of >>> a >>> hassle. >>> I don't get it. >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.cpsr.org >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >>> >>> For all list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.cpsr.org >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >>> >>> For all list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >>> >>> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > Regards, > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - > Abraham Lincoln > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." > United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] > =============================================================== > Updated 1/26/04 > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. > div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com > My Phone: 214-244-4827 > > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From nhklein at gmx.net Sun Jul 27 23:16:04 2008 From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:16:04 +0700 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488D39F4.5010609@gmx.net> Yehuda Katz schrieb: > Foul Carlos, I am not implying anything is "rigged", > and I am certain the Paraminder is doing a diligent and thorough job, > in a rather difficult matter to handle. > Can you please help us who are not native speakers of your language to understand your jokes of misusing the name of some persons? In some cultures this is absolutely not acceptable. And please be considerate in the use of language - maybe avoid not standard language. Norbert (in Cambodia, where I often have to struggle with missing paper mail, in or out, or with people of a more "developed" world who insist that I should rather use paper mail which is supposed to be safer than e-mail, or who say that I should not use my P.O.Box address for securer identifcation by using the street addresss - while mail NOT to the P.O.Box is even more liable to be delayed or lost) -- If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, please visit us regularly - you can find something new every day: http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English) http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Sun Jul 27 23:31:31 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: 488D222F.6060603@rits.org.br Message-ID: Carlos, We are discussing Voting via the "Internet Voting" as opposed to "Electronic Voting" (Poll Hardware / DRE). I understand that the Brazilians have made significant headway in "Electronic Voting", paperless etc. My discourse is with pure "Internet Voting", such as we are part-taking in here. - I will reference one incident in 2006: Brazilian E-Vote Techie Jailed in Ecuador http://cbrayton.wordpress.com/2006/10/20/brazilian-e-vote-techie-jailed-in-ecuador/ And here the Authorities used "Hand Counting" to recount the vote, which means paper was involved. I will also point out that Paper is also used as the People check into the Polls to access the DRE machines, as part of formal registration processes. - It is interesting to read about Brazil's e-vote and 'The Supreme Electoral Court' Regulations for voting, and its reaching effects. [the TSE, the Portuguese acronym for Tribunal Superior Eleitoral] Ref.: Brazil: Blogs banned from the 2008 elections [ENG] http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/03/30/brazil-blogs-banned-from-the-2008-elections/ Brasil: Blogues são proibidos nas eleições 2008 [PT] http://pt.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/03/30/brasil-blogues-sao-proibidos-das-eleicoes-2008/ Brasil: Prohíben blogs en las elecciones del 2008 [ES] http://es.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/04/04/brasil-prohiben-blogs-en-las-elecciones-de-2008/ - Electronic voting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting DRE voting machines (Used in Brazil) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRE_voting_machine ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Mon Jul 28 00:19:22 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members - CH/DE In-Reply-To: 488D39F4.5010609@gmx.net Message-ID: Gruezi Norbert, Ich unterstelle nicht, dass die Wahlen waren gezinkt, Paraminder macht seine Sache gut. Carlos: Ich entgegne deinem Argument mit: Wie viele von Euch gehen zu entsprechenden Nationalen Wahlen und waehlen 0n-line ? --- Da gibt es Zwei Faelle von denen ich weiss: Der Kanton Genf und Die Belgische Regierung, die beinahe eine Menschenjagt veranstalltet um dich zum Waehlen zu zwingen. (kein Witz) Refs.: Swiss E-Vote Towards Cybersociety and "Vireal" Social Relations http://www.socio.ch/intcom/ E-voting projects in Switzerland http://socio.ch/intcom/t_hgeser12.htm 2. The postal vote as a major step toward "virtual voting" http://socio.ch/intcom/t_hgeser12.htm#2 5.3.5 Voting procedure http://socio.ch/intcom/t_hgeser12.htm#5.3.5 - The Geneva Internet Voting System http://www.mailclad.com/articles/pre_projet_eVoting_eng.pdf --- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From dogwallah at gmail.com Mon Jul 28 01:14:31 2008 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:14:31 +0300 Subject: [governance] voting process - various issues In-Reply-To: <20080727053901.8BCB9E159E@smtp3.electricembers.net> References: <20080727053901.8BCB9E159E@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: Parminder, I think our differences here are a matter of tense, and perhaps in different Latin translations. It is my view that the phrase "(i.e. a voter must affirm membership on the voter form in order to vote)." Means that one declares membership WHEN you vote, not before ("As part of the voting process"). This implies a one step process ( I see three clicks, two sets of radio buttons and a submit button). In any case, the "i.e." stnds for "id est" which means "in other words" or "that is (to say)". In other words, the charter is quite clear that affirmation should be on the voter form itself. So I think the The charter does lay out a voting process that is fairly specific. Ascertaining before hand (what AD calls a "loyalty oath", is where you went awry IMO. I fully support the notion of a web based vote/affirmation. I look forward to reading you proposal tomorrow/ -- Cheers, McTim mctim.blogspot.com On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Parminder wrote: > Hi All > > > > I am enclosing a note on various issues that have come up regarding the > voting process for the election of co-coordinator. I should be able to > declare the method to be used for voting by Tuesday, and give three days for > comments. Meanwhile I will also clarify some other quires that have been > raised which are not covered by this note. > > > > Parminder > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -- Cheers, McTim mctim.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de Mon Jul 28 08:46:34 2008 From: bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Ralf Bendrath) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:46:34 +0200 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488DBFAA.9030204@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Yehuda Katz schrieb: > How many of 'YOU' go to your respective National Elections and 'VOTE > ON-LINE'? This is not the issue here. We all know there are a number of problems with electronic and online voting in national elections, ranging from the missing paper trail and having to entrust the monopoly of force to a few computer engineers to the insecurity of the voting machines (in Germany, the CCC played chess on a Nedap machine). BUT: We are not electing a parliament or president here. The caucus coordinators can not start a war, decide on taxes we have to pay, or arrest and even kill people. So the cost-benefit assessment of the various options has to be radically different from national elections. And don't lose the perspective here: Even with paper trail or highly secured voting mechanisms, a determined attacker could easily distort our elections by subscribing dozens of fake persons a few months ago, confirming their membership, and having them vote. So please, let's be a bit more pragmatic here. Personal note: I am not contributing much to this list / caucus anymore, because these kinds of discussions about ourselves are IMHO just distracting us from the real issues at hand in internet governance. If people want to discuss substance or institutions of IG and even develop policy perspectives and suggestions, I am more than happy to be back more often. Just as an example: What do you think of the new Open Web Foundation compared to W3C and IETF? See Ben Laurie for a quick & dirty discussion of legitimacy issues with the latter two: . Best, Ralf (officially on vacation...) ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Mon Jul 28 09:21:42 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: 488DBFAA.9030204@zedat.fu-berlin.de Message-ID: All, I have conceded the issue here: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance/2008-07/msg00131.html By all means go head as planned. I do think that the following Charter amending-proposals be considered: 1. A 'Census' by POSTAL be taken once a year 2. The year election of Officials ballot be validated by POSTAL means. These two can be combined into ONE-POSTAL validation event. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Mon Jul 28 09:20:17 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:50:17 +0530 Subject: [governance] voting process - various issues In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080728132025.C353F67888@smtp1.electricembers.net> McTim Like everyone else, I have been waiting for your response with bated breath. :) More seriously, Since everyone would also be dreading what may follow on the list, Ill be short and too the point. Almost every single thing Id say has been mentioned in the notes I sent. But I can repeat them once (only). > I think our differences here are a matter of tense, and perhaps in > different Latin translations. If we have political differences it is fine, and we do have them. But lets be fair to the list participants, and to ourselves, and not tell them that the voting process has been going through such tumult over the past few months over a 'tense'. We know it is much more, and Id appreciate that we peg our discussion more to the underlying substantive issues. In my note I have associated the voting process issue with the broader real issues as I understand them. I don't think it is about a tense or latin translations. > Means that one declares membership WHEN you vote, not before ("As part > of the voting process"). The voting process starts with declaration of the voting process, and the next step is of affirmation of membership. How it gets down it constrained by the possibilities available. In this case, manual direct emailing was considered the best method given the circumstances I have explained in great detail in my note. >This implies a one step process ( I see > three clicks, two sets of radio buttons and a submit button). We have till now only used email text based method. I did not have the web option available with me, and was generally trying to stick as close as possible to the method we used earlier, but correcting its fault of not ascertaining membership as per the charter's requirement. >In any > case, the "i.e." stnds for "id est" which means "in other words" or > "that is (to say)". In other words, the charter is quite clear that > affirmation should be on the voter form itself. I understand the meaning of i.e.. but I have listed in detail in my note what I considered as the problems associated with taking affirmation on the same email on which the vote is cast. I stand by my judgment on it, and I am very sure that we would have been in a very bad situation if I had tried such a thing. So, given the constraints and the real complications that were anticipated the voter form could as well be in two parts - one for affirming membership and only on certain conditions (subscription to the charter) the second part is made available. It was so in the manual process I followed, it will be so in the web based process that will now be followed. In the earlier proposed process these two steps would have been separated by a few days and in case of web based system by a second or less. If you are interested in hair-splitting then it may interest you to know that there will still be two web pages, one for subscribing to the charter, and on a positive response alone the next page of actual ballot will open. (No, I did not do the design, the person I requested help from did it himself.) > So I think the The charter does lay out a voting process that is > fairly specific. If it were fairly specific, how is the web based button system you endorse so different from the email text based one process followed the last time. One of the two then must then be wrong as per the charter. Any comments on this. The fact is, the charter lays the wider parameters and no specific voting process, a point, like all others above, I have already mentioned in my note. > Ascertaining before hand (what AD calls a "loyalty oath", is where you > went awry IMO. Ascertaining membership before the voting is the charter's requirement. That's the meaning of "a voter must affirm membership..... in order to vote". As for Avri calling it 'loyality oath' and you following her on it are your respective problems. But yes, this may have resulted in the fact that the last election did not get held as per the charter (not even the process you now endorse). You can call it a loyality oath derisively, but the charter requires it. And the loyality oath is still there in the new voting process, it would be on a web form (like all those we give to Microsoft et al :)). And Avri now agree that we should be able to make members list other than at the time of elections - would her and your loyality oath aversion not be operative then. Because one has to surely declare subscription to the charter for it. And yes, this term 'loyality oath' is a bit insulting to the 125 members who volunteered to state their subscription to the charter and affirm IGC membership. Parminder > -----Original Message----- > From: McTim [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 10:45 AM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Parminder > Subject: Re: [governance] voting process - various issues > > Parminder, > > I think our differences here are a matter of tense, and perhaps in > different Latin translations. > > It is my view that the phrase "(i.e. a voter must affirm membership on > the voter form in order to vote)." > > Means that one declares membership WHEN you vote, not before ("As part > of the voting process"). This implies a one step process ( I see > three clicks, two sets of radio buttons and a submit button). In any > case, the "i.e." stnds for "id est" which means "in other words" or > "that is (to say)". In other words, the charter is quite clear that > affirmation should be on the voter form itself. > > So I think the The charter does lay out a voting process that is > fairly specific. > > Ascertaining before hand (what AD calls a "loyalty oath", is where you > went awry IMO. > > I fully support the notion of a web based vote/affirmation. > > I look forward to reading you proposal tomorrow/ > -- > Cheers, > > McTim > mctim.blogspot.com > > > On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Parminder > wrote: > > Hi All > > > > > > > > I am enclosing a note on various issues that have come up regarding the > > voting process for the election of co-coordinator. I should be able to > > declare the method to be used for voting by Tuesday, and give three days > for > > comments. Meanwhile I will also clarify some other quires that have been > > raised which are not covered by this note. > > > > > > > > Parminder > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > -- > Cheers, > > McTim > mctim.blogspot.com > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ca at rits.org.br Mon Jul 28 10:19:55 2008 From: ca at rits.org.br (Carlos Afonso) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:19:55 -0300 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488DD58B.2060005@rits.org.br> I understand. In our case, machines collect the votes electronically and transfer collected data at the end of the poll day to a central server. The receipt you mention is not on how the person voted, but a legal pre-printed receipt to prove the person voted, since in Brazil official elections' voting is mandatory (although of course you are not required to vote for anyone, ie, blank voting is permitted, but you have to show up at the polls). Regarding Ecuador, well, as a computer professional you know e-voting is a system, not just an electronic voting box. Voting boxes and systems are usually built by private companies, the Ecuadorean contract was with a private company (no different in the usual business practice from a Diebold or any other). What really happened is open to a number of possibilities, but certainly if a government or political faction with enough power wants to tamper with elections, there are a number of ways to do it, and printing a receipt will not avoid it. In Brazil the e-voting system has reached a level of credibility in which it is no longer an issue for post-elections' disputes. However, returning to my original point: I continue to find amazing that we take so much time to discuss a simple e-voting process for an informal group. Well, at least we know a little more about e-voting processes, but is this a central issue for our little election? []s fraternos --c.a. Yehuda Katz wrote: > Carlos, > > We are discussing Voting via the "Internet Voting" as opposed to "Electronic > Voting" (Poll Hardware / DRE). > > I understand that the Brazilians have made significant headway in "Electronic > Voting", paperless etc. > > My discourse is with pure "Internet Voting", such as we are part-taking in > here. > - > > I will reference one incident in 2006: > > Brazilian E-Vote Techie Jailed in Ecuador > http://cbrayton.wordpress.com/2006/10/20/brazilian-e-vote-techie-jailed-in-ecuador/ > > And here the Authorities used "Hand Counting" to recount the vote, which means > paper was involved. I will also point out that Paper is also used as the People > check into the Polls to access the DRE machines, as part of formal registration > processes. > - > > It is interesting to read about Brazil's e-vote and 'The Supreme Electoral > Court' Regulations for voting, and its reaching effects. > [the TSE, the Portuguese acronym for Tribunal Superior Eleitoral] > > Ref.: > > Brazil: Blogs banned from the 2008 elections [ENG] > http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/03/30/brazil-blogs-banned-from-the-2008-elections/ > > Brasil: Blogues são proibidos nas eleições 2008 [PT] > http://pt.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/03/30/brasil-blogues-sao-proibidos-das-eleicoes-2008/ > > Brasil: Prohíben blogs en las elecciones del 2008 [ES] > http://es.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/04/04/brasil-prohiben-blogs-en-las-elecciones-de-2008/ > > - > > Electronic voting > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting > > DRE voting machines (Used in Brazil) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRE_voting_machine > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jam at jacquelinemorris.com Mon Jul 28 11:06:49 2008 From: jam at jacquelinemorris.com (Jacqueline A. Morris) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:06:49 -0400 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488DE089.2040109@jacquelinemorris.com> I disagree - Postal mail is really slow, takes forever if it doesn't get lost or stolen, and it's difficult to get to the post office during working hours to return the mail. Jacqueline Yehuda Katz wrote: > All, > > I have conceded the issue here: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance/2008-07/msg00131.html > > By all means go head as planned. > > I do think that the following Charter amending-proposals be considered: > > 1. > A 'Census' by POSTAL be taken once a year2 > . > > The year election of Officials ballot be validated by POSTAL means. > > These two can be combined into ONE-POSTAL validation event. > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Mon Jul 28 11:09:27 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:09:27 -0700 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: <488DD58B.2060005@rits.org.br> Message-ID: <012c01c8f0c3$ee5e1010$89cc5318@michael78xnoln> Hear, hear! MG -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Afonso [mailto:ca at rits.org.br] Sent: July 28, 2008 7:20 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Yehuda Katz Subject: Re: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members ... However, returning to my original point: I continue to find amazing that we take so much time to discuss a simple e-voting process for an informal group. Well, at least we know a little more about e-voting processes, but is this a central issue for our little election? []s fraternos --c.a. Yehuda Katz wrote: > Carlos, > > We are discussing Voting via the "Internet Voting" as opposed to > "Electronic Voting" (Poll Hardware / DRE). > > I understand that the Brazilians have made significant headway in > "Electronic Voting", paperless etc. > > My discourse is with pure "Internet Voting", such as we are > part-taking in here. > - > > I will reference one incident in 2006: > > Brazilian E-Vote Techie Jailed in Ecuador > http://cbrayton.wordpress.com/2006/10/20/brazilian-e-vote-techie-jaile > d-in-ecuador/ > > And here the Authorities used "Hand Counting" to recount the vote, > which means paper was involved. I will also point out that Paper is > also used as the People check into the Polls to access the DRE > machines, as part of formal registration processes. > - > > It is interesting to read about Brazil's e-vote and 'The Supreme > Electoral Court' Regulations for voting, and its reaching effects. > [the TSE, the Portuguese acronym for Tribunal Superior Eleitoral] > > Ref.: > > Brazil: Blogs banned from the 2008 elections [ENG] > http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/03/30/brazil-blogs-banned-from- > the-2008-elections/ > > Brasil: Blogues são proibidos nas eleições 2008 [PT] > http://pt.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/03/30/brasil-blogues-sao-proibid > os-das-eleicoes-2008/ > > Brasil: Prohíben blogs en las elecciones del 2008 [ES] > http://es.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/04/04/brasil-prohiben-blogs-en-l > as-elecciones-de-2008/ > > - > > Electronic voting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting > > DRE voting machines (Used in Brazil) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRE_voting_machine > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jam at jacquelinemorris.com Mon Jul 28 11:10:02 2008 From: jam at jacquelinemorris.com (Jacqueline A. Morris) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:10:02 -0400 Subject: [governance] voting process - various issues In-Reply-To: <20080728132025.C353F67888@smtp1.electricembers.net> References: <20080728132025.C353F67888@smtp1.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <488DE14A.6020700@jacquelinemorris.com> Parminder wrote: > I understand the meaning of i.e.. but I have listed in detail in my note > what I considered as the problems associated with taking affirmation on the > same email on which the vote is cast. I stand by my judgment on it, and I am > very sure that we would have been in a very bad situation if I had tried > such a thing. But there have been votes held before in that original manner and no bad situation resulted, I don't think... Jacqueline ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jsarr at refer.sn Mon Jul 28 11:20:46 2008 From: jsarr at refer.sn (jsarr at refer.sn) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:20:46 +0000 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: <488DE089.2040109@jacquelinemorris.com> References: <488DE089.2040109@jacquelinemorris.com> Message-ID: <20080728152046.d70zzqq1ogks4g4c@courrier.refer.sn> Bonjours chers tous, Je pense que le vote par mail est le seul raisonnable quand on veut s'occuper de gouvernance de l'internet. salutations cordiales. Joseph SARR ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> I have conceded the issue here: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance/2008-07/msg00131.html >> >> By all means go head as planned. >> >> I do think that the following Charter amending-proposals be considered: >> >> 1. >> A 'Census' by POSTAL be taken once a year2 > >> . >> The year election of Officials ballot be validated by POSTAL means. >> >> These two can be combined into ONE-POSTAL validation event. >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ginger at paque.net Mon Jul 28 12:49:20 2008 From: ginger at paque.net (Ginger Paque) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:19:20 -0430 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: <20080728152046.d70zzqq1ogks4g4c@courrier.refer.sn> Message-ID: <488df8a0.1f068e0a.252c.ffff8459@mx.google.com> A postal vote (I am assuming that "mail" in French means postal mail, not electronic mail) will disenfranchise some members of this list, including myself, since it will be either very expensive (international courier) or an unreasonably long voting period (up to three months each way if it even arrives) to use our postal service. Perhaps members can stipulate the voting means they would like for their personal use in future elections. Geneva, Switzerland, for instance, offers Internet, postal (the most commonly used) and in-person voting options as choices for voters. Can we consider the same? As an aside, I think that an INTERNET Governance list should consider Internet and email options and resources for inclusion, when reasonable, as I think it is in this case. Thanks for your consideration. Saludos, Ginger -----Mensaje original----- De: jsarr at refer.sn [mailto:jsarr at refer.sn] Enviado el: Lunes, 28 de Julio de 2008 10:51 a.m. Para: governance at lists.cpsr.org CC: Yehuda Katz Asunto: Re: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members Bonjours chers tous, Je pense que le vote par mail est le seul raisonnable quand on veut s'occuper de gouvernance de l'internet. salutations cordiales. Joseph SARR ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >> I have conceded the issue here: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance/2008-07/msg00131.html >> >> By all means go head as planned. >> >> I do think that the following Charter amending-proposals be considered: >> >> 1. >> A 'Census' by POSTAL be taken once a year2 > >> . >> The year election of Officials ballot be validated by POSTAL means. >> >> These two can be combined into ONE-POSTAL validation event. >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From KovenRonald at aol.com Mon Jul 28 15:24:23 2008 From: KovenRonald at aol.com (KovenRonald at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:24:23 EDT Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members Message-ID: Dear All -- Please note that the French word for e-mail message is a "mél" or "mail." I don't mean to speak for someone else, but M. Sarr's intention was apparently to say that e-mail balloting makes sense, rather than postal balloting, given that we're talking about Internet governance. Bests, Rony Koven PS I find this whole discussion to be far beyond normal belief. If there is this much distrust amongst the Caucus members, then maybe it's best to dissolve it. And this group has the ambition to persuade the larger IGF community of the pertinence of its approach ? ************** Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Mon Jul 28 19:57:57 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: cc5.3acb0fa2.35bf76e7@aol.com Message-ID: On the contrary Rony, I look at a 'verified-by-post' Membership, as strengthening this organization. Because its Populous has been verified. It is quintessential, because a valid Vote ... is a central key to democracy. I am somewhat applauded at the opinion of my Countertarians. According to them, all that is required is an email-address, essentially. To my way of thinking it creates a false-sense-of-security, and for an organization that bills itself as "Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility" it makes the motto into a oxymoronic hypocrisy. I only set-out to strengthen this organization, Be that as it may, the path is chosen by You. So the question is: What can be done to strengthen this Organization? ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 27 23:02:37 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:02:37 -0700 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members References: Message-ID: <488D36CD.7A572527@ix.netcom.com> Yehuda and all, How does one verify another vote if the Postal system in their country, or in mine is not effective and/or doesn't deliver the verification documentation? As most reasonable folks know Email is far more broadly reliable at delivery than any Postal system. Yehuda Katz wrote: > On the contrary Rony, > > I look at a 'verified-by-post' Membership, as strengthening this organization. > Because its Populous has been verified. > It is quintessential, because a valid Vote ... is a central key to democracy. > > I am somewhat applauded at the opinion of my Countertarians. > According to them, all that is required is an email-address, essentially. > > To my way of thinking it creates a false-sense-of-security, > and for an organization that bills itself as "Computer Professionals for Social > Responsibility" it makes the motto into a oxymoronic hypocrisy. > > I only set-out to strengthen this organization, > Be that as it may, the path is chosen by You. > > So the question is: > > What can be done to strengthen this Organization? > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Mon Jul 28 22:14:53 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: 488D36CD.7A572527@ix.netcom.com Message-ID: Jeff, (nice try ... your syllogism is flawed) Behold the power of the POST! [Universal Postal Union] I. At present, 117 UPU member countries use postcodes as part of their addressing systems. http://www.upu.int/post_code/en/list_of_sites_by_country.html There are more than 660,000 post offices worldwide, and once they are networked via '.post' they will create a universal electronic postal service that fulfils the expectations of citizens and governments worldwide in terms of security and stability. .post would allow the UPU to create a global electronic postal network establishing more than 660,000 post offices via the Internet, alongside the single territory for the exchange of international physical mail. http://www.upu.int/dotpost/en/index.shtml II. ref.: Postal solutions to bridge the digital divide http://www.upu.int/dotpost/en/postal_solutions_to_bridge_the_digital_divide_en.pdf The Post: opening the doors to world trade for the smallest businesses… http://www.upu.int/news_centre/2008/en/2008-07-25_exporta_facil.html - Universal Postal Union, UPU: Worldwide postal organization http://www.upu.int/ News: http://www.upu.int/news_centre/en/index.shtml - III. Whom amoung you on this list does not have access to a POSTAL SERVICE? Speak now or forever hold your peace.____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 28 01:30:04 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:30:04 -0700 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members References: Message-ID: <488D595B.A02255B1@ix.netcom.com> Yehuda and all, Although this effort is laudable, it isn't there yet, and of course therefore cannot be "Beheld". So no magic wand of words will address this in terms of reality vs laudable effort but not yet delivered in voting for the IGC at this time or for the near term foreseeable future. So as we say here in Texas, nice try, but no cigar. Yehuda Katz wrote: > Jeff, (nice try ... your syllogism is flawed) > > Behold the power of the POST! > [Universal Postal Union] > > I. > At present, 117 UPU member countries use postcodes as part of their addressing > systems. > > http://www.upu.int/post_code/en/list_of_sites_by_country.html > > There are more than 660,000 post offices worldwide, > and once they are networked via '.post' they will create a universal electronic > postal service that fulfils the expectations of citizens and governments > worldwide in terms of security and stability. > > .post would allow the UPU to create a global electronic postal network > establishing more than 660,000 post offices via the Internet, alongside the > single territory for the exchange of international physical mail. > > http://www.upu.int/dotpost/en/index.shtml > > II. > > ref.: Postal solutions to bridge the digital divide > http://www.upu.int/dotpost/en/postal_solutions_to_bridge_the_digital_divide_en.pdf > > The Post: opening the doors to world trade for the smallest businesses… > http://www.upu.int/news_centre/2008/en/2008-07-25_exporta_facil.html > > - > > Universal Postal Union, UPU: Worldwide postal organization > http://www.upu.int/ > > News: > http://www.upu.int/news_centre/en/index.shtml > > - > > III. > Whom amoung you on this list does not have access to a POSTAL SERVICE? > > Speak now or forever hold your peace.____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Mon Jul 28 23:48:53 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:48:53 +1000 Subject: [governance] Interesting comments re changing face of "technical community" Message-ID: <016001c8f12e$07e97870$8b00a8c0@IAN> Dana Blankenhorn's comments, reproduced in part below, are interesting in the context of the ongoing role of the "technical community" in internet governance. While technical community has taken on different meanings here to include internet administrative functions, the comments on how things have changed as regards independence of engineers is worth examining. Is IETF becoming threatened, dominated or unduly influenced by vendor considerations? Ian Peter Ian Peter and Associates Pty Ltd PO Box 10670 Adelaide St Brisbane 4000 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com ________________________________________ From: Dana Blankenhorn [dana at a-clue.com] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 4:39 PM To: David Farber Subject: Re: [IP] FCC Commissioner: "Engineers solve engineering problems" When engineers are fully under the control of vendors they will do the vendors' bidding. The difference between the Internet of today and the Internet of 10 years ago is that most Internet engineers today are forced to work for telcos or cable operators whose agenda is not the Internet, but the maintenance of other revenue streams. Mr. McDonnell might like to wish this away, but that's like pretending that hiring at the Department of Justice was not politicized, or that torture didn't take place at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. It's just pretend. We need to all grow up and look the reality in the face. A monopolized market is not going to maintain the independence of engineers from the monopoly's quest for profit. What the Internet needs most is a free marketplace in which the Internet is the primary focus of most players, and the ultimate health of the Internet is the primary goal. We do not have that today. Pretending that we do, that Verizon or AT&T or Comcast engineers are independent agents, is, I'm sorry to say, a lie. So if engineers are to be in charge of the Internet, they need to be engineers who are not under the thrall of the monopolists, and the monopolists must promise to abide by the decisions of those engineers in their network designs. Otherwise the monopolists will have won. -- Dana Blankenhorn ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From dogwallah at gmail.com Tue Jul 29 00:52:07 2008 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:52:07 +0300 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dewd, On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 2:57 AM, Yehuda Katz wrote: > On the contrary Rony, > > I look at a 'verified-by-post' Membership, as strengthening this organization. > Because its Populous has been verified. > It is quintessential, because a valid Vote ... is a central key to democracy. > > I am somewhat applauded at the opinion of my Countertarians. > According to them, all that is required is an email-address, essentially. > > To my way of thinking it creates a false-sense-of-security, > and for an organization that bills itself as "Computer Professionals for Social > Responsibility" it makes the motto into a oxymoronic hypocrisy. > While the IGC is grateful to CPSR for hosting this list, the two groups are NOT the same animal. We are a group of individuals, not (yet) an "organisation". -- Cheers, McTim mctim.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Tue Jul 29 01:21:01 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:51:01 +0530 Subject: [governance] voting process - various issues In-Reply-To: <488DE14A.6020700@jacquelinemorris.com> Message-ID: <20080729052108.CC3CC67859@smtp1.electricembers.net> > > I understand the meaning of i.e.. but I have listed in detail in my > note > > what I considered as the problems associated with taking affirmation on > the > > same email on which the vote is cast. I stand by my judgment on it, and > I am > > very sure that we would have been in a very bad situation if I had tried > > such a thing. > But there have been votes held before in that original manner and no bad > situation resulted, I don't think... > Jacqueline Jacqueline, I can understand that you may not have had time to read my notes on this issue. They explain everything, including why I couldn't use the process used the last time, and what is the 'bad situation' I fear if we try to get membership affirmation on the text of the email on which the vote too has to be indicated . Parminder > -----Original Message----- > From: Jacqueline A. Morris [mailto:jam at jacquelinemorris.com] > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:40 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Parminder > Cc: 'McTim' > Subject: Re: [governance] voting process - various issues > > Parminder wrote: > > I understand the meaning of i.e.. but I have listed in detail in my > note > > what I considered as the problems associated with taking affirmation on > the > > same email on which the vote is cast. I stand by my judgment on it, and > I am > > very sure that we would have been in a very bad situation if I had tried > > such a thing. > But there have been votes held before in that original manner and no bad > situation resulted, I don't think... > Jacqueline ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 28 03:38:21 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 00:38:21 -0700 Subject: [governance] Interesting comments re changing face of References: <016001c8f12e$07e97870$8b00a8c0@IAN> Message-ID: <488D776D.94A8AFDE@ix.netcom.com> Ian and all, To a great degree and increasingly so, unfortunately Dana is correct. Thankfully such is not the case in my company, and likely will not be in some time to come. Administrators that do not have a strong technical background with significant experience in same, represents a very great danger to their organizations who's revenue is anchored in IT. Banks and financial institutions are finding this out now, and will increasingly do so over the next 2 to 5 years unless a sea change in Administration leadership and recognition is realized, excepted and acted upon appropriately very soon. Ian Peter wrote: > Dana Blankenhorn's comments, reproduced in part below, are interesting in > the context of the ongoing role of the "technical community" in internet > governance. > > While technical community has taken on different meanings here to include > internet administrative functions, the comments on how things have changed > as regards independence of engineers is worth examining. Is IETF becoming > threatened, dominated or unduly influenced by vendor considerations? > > Ian Peter > Ian Peter and Associates Pty Ltd > PO Box 10670 Adelaide St Brisbane 4000 > Australia > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > www.ianpeter.com > > > ________________________________________ > From: Dana Blankenhorn [dana at a-clue.com] > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 4:39 PM > To: David Farber > Subject: Re: [IP] FCC Commissioner: "Engineers solve engineering problems" > > When engineers are fully under the control of vendors they will do the > vendors' bidding. > > The difference between the Internet of today and the Internet of 10 > years ago is that most Internet engineers today are forced to work for > telcos or cable operators whose agenda is not the Internet, but the > maintenance of other revenue streams. > > Mr. McDonnell might like to wish this away, but that's like pretending > that hiring at the Department of Justice was not politicized, or that > torture didn't take place at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. It's just pretend. > > We need to all grow up and look the reality in the face. A monopolized > market is not going to maintain the independence of engineers from the > monopoly's quest for profit. > > What the Internet needs most is a free marketplace in which the Internet > is the primary focus of most players, and the ultimate health of the > Internet is the primary goal. > > We do not have that today. Pretending that we do, that Verizon or AT&T > or Comcast engineers are independent agents, is, I'm sorry to say, a lie. > > So if engineers are to be in charge of the Internet, they need to be > engineers who are not under the thrall of the monopolists, and the > monopolists must promise to abide by the decisions of those engineers in > their network designs. > > Otherwise the monopolists will have won. > > -- > Dana Blankenhorn > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From dogwallah at gmail.com Tue Jul 29 02:49:18 2008 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:49:18 +0300 Subject: [governance] voting process - various issues In-Reply-To: <488dc79a.16538c0a.696c.ffffb44fSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <488dc79a.16538c0a.696c.ffffb44fSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Parminder wrote: > > > If we have political differences it is fine, and we do have them. But lets > be fair to the list participants, and to ourselves, and not tell them that > the voting process has been going through such tumult over the past few > months over a 'tense'. but it is. I and Avri/others, want to affirm "AS" we vote (the root of my previous "zen" comment), you want to have people affirm well beforehand. You want to build a list BEFORE the vote, while the charter says; "A list of the self-defined member-voters will be published after the election with the results of the election." all of my objections to your previous proposals stem from the above differences, as they would not have fulfilled the "affirm membership on the voter form" clause. -- Cheers, McTim mctim.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ca at rits.org.br Tue Jul 29 09:08:01 2008 From: ca at rits.org.br (Carlos Afonso) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:08:01 -0300 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488F1631.9020609@rits.org.br> Amazing... OK, let us be logical, like the numerical analysys textbooks. Someone please tell CPSR (I understand Katz is talking in their name) that people have not enrolled using completely verified identities of real people, like banks do when issuing us a credit card or certifying companies do when issuing us an e-certificate. All we have to identify the people on this list is an email associated with the name the email holder has given us. There is no documentary evidence on record even to prove the name is the real name of the real person reading that email. This is the universe of ID information we are dealing with and against which we have to proceed with authentication. I understand computer professionals should be able to understand basic theory which says a logical construct is based on hypotheses, on "givens" which are set by common sense or arbitrarily etc. Our "given" is this: we have a list of names and uni-univocally associated emails. We do not know the associated person's address, we do not know ifjust one person uses a given email or several persons take turns to participate with the same email, or even if the person represents what s/he says s/he represents. All we have as formal "given" is that a pair (email,name) posts messages in an electronic list (by the way, running *insecurely* by CPSR -- so much for coherence). In this logical scenario, printing a paper confirming an email has arrived to a destination and sending it through the post office network is a trivial lemma... It is really amazing: we (CPSR included) take for granted everything the pair (email,name) (the only identification info we formally have) writes in this insecure list, but it seems CPSR does not take for granted the message this pair sends to a secure e-voting system. Shoddy logic... --c.a. Yehuda Katz wrote: > On the contrary Rony, > > I look at a 'verified-by-post' Membership, as strengthening this organization. > Because its Populous has been verified. > It is quintessential, because a valid Vote ... is a central key to democracy. > > I am somewhat applauded at the opinion of my Countertarians. > According to them, all that is required is an email-address, essentially. > > To my way of thinking it creates a false-sense-of-security, > and for an organization that bills itself as "Computer Professionals for Social > Responsibility" it makes the motto into a oxymoronic hypocrisy. > > I only set-out to strengthen this organization, > Be that as it may, the path is chosen by You. > > So the question is: > > What can be done to strengthen this Organization? > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From nyangkweagien at gmail.com Tue Jul 29 09:56:40 2008 From: nyangkweagien at gmail.com (Nyangkwe Agien Aaron) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:56:40 +0200 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all If we want a situation where some votes will arive when voting date must have passed then the Post will will be very apt avenue to channel our votes. But if we want an inclusive and broad partcipation election process , then the email voting system is the more appropriate. I understand the work load that is wearing on the administrators, but some software should be developped to acknowledge voting so that no one's vote is left out. Cheers Aaron On 7/27/08, Yehuda Katz wrote: > Foul Carlos, I am not implying anything is "rigged", > and I am certain the Paraminder is doing a diligent and thorough job, > in a rather difficult matter to handle. > > I counter your argument with this: > > How many of 'YOU' go to your respective National Elections and 'VOTE ON-LINE'? > > --- > > There are two instances that I know of: > > The Swiss Canton of Geneva, > and > The Belgian Government, where they nearly have a Manhunt to track you down and > make you vote. (no joke) > > Refs.: Swiss E-Vote > Towards Cybersociety and "Vireal" Social Relations > http://socio.ch/intcom/t_hgeser12.htm > > 2. The postal vote as a major step toward "virtual voting" > http://socio.ch/intcom/t_hgeser12.htm#2 > > > 5.3.5 Voting procedure > http://socio.ch/intcom/t_hgeser12.htm#5.3.5 > > - > > Finally, how WE handle our elections, represents us, the 'CPSR Groups'. This is > a 1st.-Class Organization, if WE uphold our integrity and backup our > reputation. > > - > > P.S.: My hats off to the Swiss & Belgians - you rock Democracy! > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- Aaron Agien Nyangkwe Journalist/Outcome Mapper Special Assistant To The President Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. ASAFE P.O.Box 5213 Douala-Cameroon Tel. 237 3337 50 22 Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 Fax. 237 3342 29 70 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Tue Jul 29 10:03:45 2008 From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:03:45 +0200 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: <488F1631.9020609@rits.org.br> Message-ID: Hi Carlos, Just a clarification. CPSR agreed to host the list in 2003 and still does. That is the only connection between CPSR and anything going on here. I'm the former president and Robert is a current board member, but neither of us has been speaking here for CPSR. Yehuda might be a CPSR member, I don't know (there were about 800 + when I stepped down), but he is not speaking for the organization and there's really no particular reason to be invoking it in this discussion. Cheers, Bill On 7/29/08 3:08 PM, "Carlos Afonso" wrote: > Amazing... OK, let us be logical, like the numerical analysys textbooks. > > Someone please tell CPSR (I understand Katz is talking in their name) > that people have not enrolled using completely verified identities of > real people, like banks do when issuing us a credit card or certifying > companies do when issuing us an e-certificate. All we have to identify > the people on this list is an email associated with the name the email > holder has given us. There is no documentary evidence on record even to > prove the name is the real name of the real person reading that email. > This is the universe of ID information we are dealing with and against > which we have to proceed with authentication. > > I understand computer professionals should be able to understand basic > theory which says a logical construct is based on hypotheses, on > "givens" which are set by common sense or arbitrarily etc. Our "given" > is this: we have a list of names and uni-univocally associated emails. > We do not know the associated person's address, we do not know ifjust > one person uses a given email or several persons take turns to > participate with the same email, or even if the person represents what > s/he says s/he represents. All we have as formal "given" is that a pair > (email,name) posts messages in an electronic list (by the way, running > *insecurely* by CPSR -- so much for coherence). > > In this logical scenario, printing a paper confirming an email has > arrived to a destination and sending it through the post office network > is a trivial lemma... > > It is really amazing: we (CPSR included) take for granted everything the > pair (email,name) (the only identification info we formally have) writes > in this insecure list, but it seems CPSR does not take for granted the > message this pair sends to a secure e-voting system. > > Shoddy logic... > > --c.a. > > Yehuda Katz wrote: >> On the contrary Rony, >> >> I look at a 'verified-by-post' Membership, as strengthening this >> organization. >> Because its Populous has been verified. >> It is quintessential, because a valid Vote ... is a central key to democracy. >> >> I am somewhat applauded at the opinion of my Countertarians. >> According to them, all that is required is an email-address, essentially. >> >> To my way of thinking it creates a false-sense-of-security, >> and for an organization that bills itself as "Computer Professionals for >> Social >> Responsibility" it makes the motto into a oxymoronic hypocrisy. >> >> I only set-out to strengthen this organization, >> Be that as it may, the path is chosen by You. >> >> So the question is: >> >> What can be done to strengthen this Organization? ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From icggov at johnlevine.com Tue Jul 29 11:18:41 2008 From: icggov at johnlevine.com (John Levine) Date: 29 Jul 2008 15:18:41 -0000 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080729151841.1425.qmail@simone.iecc.com> > PS I find this whole discussion to be far beyond normal belief. If > there is this much distrust amongst the Caucus members, then maybe > it's best to dissolve it. And this group has the ambition to > persuade the larger IGF community of the pertinence of its approach? I do get the impression that a goal is to keep it so tied up in procedural knots that nobody notices the complete lack of substantive activity. R's, John ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Tue Jul 29 12:09:46 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:09:46 -0700 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: <20080729151841.1425.qmail@simone.iecc.com> Message-ID: <01a601c8f195$897fbbd0$6401a8c0@michael78xnoln> An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) MG -----Original Message----- From: John Levine [mailto:icggov at johnlevine.com] Sent: July 29, 2008 8:19 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members > PS I find this whole discussion to be far beyond normal belief. If > there is this much distrust amongst the Caucus members, then maybe > it's best to dissolve it. And this group has the ambition to persuade > the larger IGF community of the pertinence of its approach? I do get the impression that a goal is to keep it so tied up in procedural knots that nobody notices the complete lack of substantive activity. R's, John ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr Tue Jul 29 12:47:51 2008 From: jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr (jlfullsack) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:47:51 +0200 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members References: Message-ID: <004801c8f19a$d8de8b20$0a01a8c0@PCbureau> Dear Robert For the French the word "courriel", borrowed from our Canadian cousins, is steadily replacing "mél". "Courriel" is a contraction of both French termes "Courrier" (mail) and électronique" (electronic) and is therefore well appropriate. Best Jean-Louis Fullsack ----- Original Message ----- From: KovenRonald at aol.com To: ginger at paque.net ; governance at lists.cpsr.org ; jsarr at refer.sn Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members Dear All -- Please note that the French word for e-mail message is a "mél" or "mail." I don't mean to speak for someone else, but M. Sarr's intention was apparently to say that e-mail balloting makes sense, rather than postal balloting, given that we're talking about Internet governance. Bests, Rony Koven PS I find this whole discussion to be far beyond normal belief. If there is this much distrust amongst the Caucus members, then maybe it's best to dissolve it. And this group has the ambition to persuade the larger IGF community of the pertinence of its approach ? ************** Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- J'utilise la version gratuíte de SPAMfighter pour utilisateurs privés. Ce programme a supprimé13844 d'e-mails spam à ce jour. Les utilisateurs qui paient n'ont pas ce message dans leurse-mails. Obtenez la version gratuite de SPAMfighter ici: http://www.spamfighter.com/lfr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 28 15:52:24 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:52:24 -0700 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members References: <488F1631.9020609@rits.org.br> Message-ID: <488E2378.3B377B7A@ix.netcom.com> Carlos and all, First, the IGC is not a bank, nor anything like a Bank and is not bound by privacy protections that Banks and financial institutions are in protecting personal and private information of their customers. Second if verification is what is desired, methods already exist to do such verification that do not include Postal addresses or Postal services, good or bad, or unreliable as that situation in some countries, and even in my country, exist, and remain persistently unreliable. However these verification methods are expensive to effect and may require a court filing in some locations. Carlos Afonso wrote: > Amazing... OK, let us be logical, like the numerical analysys textbooks. > > Someone please tell CPSR (I understand Katz is talking in their name) > that people have not enrolled using completely verified identities of > real people, like banks do when issuing us a credit card or certifying > companies do when issuing us an e-certificate. All we have to identify > the people on this list is an email associated with the name the email > holder has given us. There is no documentary evidence on record even to > prove the name is the real name of the real person reading that email. > This is the universe of ID information we are dealing with and against > which we have to proceed with authentication. > > I understand computer professionals should be able to understand basic > theory which says a logical construct is based on hypotheses, on > "givens" which are set by common sense or arbitrarily etc. Our "given" > is this: we have a list of names and uni-univocally associated emails. > We do not know the associated person's address, we do not know ifjust > one person uses a given email or several persons take turns to > participate with the same email, or even if the person represents what > s/he says s/he represents. All we have as formal "given" is that a pair > (email,name) posts messages in an electronic list (by the way, running > *insecurely* by CPSR -- so much for coherence). > > In this logical scenario, printing a paper confirming an email has > arrived to a destination and sending it through the post office network > is a trivial lemma... > > It is really amazing: we (CPSR included) take for granted everything the > pair (email,name) (the only identification info we formally have) writes > in this insecure list, but it seems CPSR does not take for granted the > message this pair sends to a secure e-voting system. > > Shoddy logic... > > --c.a. > > Yehuda Katz wrote: > > On the contrary Rony, > > > > I look at a 'verified-by-post' Membership, as strengthening this organization. > > Because its Populous has been verified. > > It is quintessential, because a valid Vote ... is a central key to democracy. > > > > I am somewhat applauded at the opinion of my Countertarians. > > According to them, all that is required is an email-address, essentially. > > > > To my way of thinking it creates a false-sense-of-security, > > and for an organization that bills itself as "Computer Professionals for Social > > Responsibility" it makes the motto into a oxymoronic hypocrisy. > > > > I only set-out to strengthen this organization, > > Be that as it may, the path is chosen by You. > > > > So the question is: > > > > What can be done to strengthen this Organization? > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 28 16:06:32 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:06:32 -0700 Subject: [governance] Issues concerning standing IGC members References: <20080729151841.1425.qmail@simone.iecc.com> Message-ID: <488E26C8.EC5B6C2E@ix.netcom.com> John and all, I concur, and stated as much three weeks ago. John Levine wrote: > > PS I find this whole discussion to be far beyond normal belief. If > > there is this much distrust amongst the Caucus members, then maybe > > it's best to dissolve it. And this group has the ambition to > > persuade the larger IGF community of the pertinence of its approach? > > I do get the impression that a goal is to keep it so tied up in > procedural knots that nobody notices the complete lack of substantive > activity. > > R's, > John > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From bortzmeyer at internatif.org Tue Jul 29 15:56:17 2008 From: bortzmeyer at internatif.org (Stephane Bortzmeyer) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:56:17 +0100 Subject: [governance] Re: Issues concerning standing IGC members In-Reply-To: <20080729151841.1425.qmail@simone.iecc.com> References: <20080729151841.1425.qmail@simone.iecc.com> Message-ID: <20080729195617.GA17720@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 03:18:41PM -0000, John Levine wrote a message of 20 lines which said: > I do get the impression that a goal is to keep it so tied up in > procedural knots that nobody notices the complete lack of substantive > activity. Perfectly right. But, on the other hand, the competing "CS" group launched in September 2007 is not better (and often worse). On their mailing list, I never saw a message for something else than procedure issues. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 28 22:01:45 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:01:45 -0700 Subject: [governance] Authentication via Post?: Lost letter makes it way back home 60 years later Message-ID: <488E7A08.629A15CB@ix.netcom.com> All, As a matter of refrence and what I have been saying for some time regarding this process issue, see: http://enews.earthlink.net/article/str?guid=20080729/488e95c0_3426_1335020080729-1204983910 Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wsis at ngocongo.org Wed Jul 30 09:11:48 2008 From: wsis at ngocongo.org (CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:11:48 +0200 Subject: [governance] ECOSOC considered CSTD Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up Message-ID: <200807301310.m6UDAcGV019472@smtp1.infomaniak.ch> Dear all, This is to inform you about the consideration by ECOSOC of the report of the recent 11th session of the Commission on Science and Technology for Development and the rubber stamping of the CSTD Resolution and its 4 Decisions including those concerning civil society and academic institution participation (see my previous posts on 2 and 6 June 2008). See also ECOSOC Press Release: http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/ecosoc6365.doc.htm on 18 July 2008. "Under its item on science and technology for development, the Council adopted, without a vote, one draft resolution and four draft decisions contained in the report on the eleventh session of the Commission on Science and Technology for Development (document E/2008/31). By the resolution, on assessment of the progress made in the implementation of, and follow-up to, the outcomes of the two-phase World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), held in Geneva December 2003, and in Tunis in November 2005, the Council noted that, while in general the digital divide between developed and developing countries was shrinking, a new divide was emerging in terms of differences in quality and speed of access to information and communications technology. Among other things, the Council called on stakeholders to increase their efforts to reduce the disparity in cost of access, through, for example, the establishment of exchange points and the creation of a competitive environment, both at the network and local levels. The Council also called on stakeholders to increase efforts for funding of and investment in information and communication technology, to advance broadband access, including wireless access in areas and countries in which it was still limited or nonexistent. It also called on those actors to continue to develop and disseminate easy-to-use applications and services for mobile phones and related devices, especially those that are useful in rural areas and work with low bandwidth and high latency. The four draft decisions were on participation of non-governmental organizations and civil society entities in the work of the Commission on Science and Technology for Development at its twelfth and thirteenth sessions; participation of academic entities in the work of that Commission; the report of the Secretary-General on science, technology and innovation to be submitted to the Commission at its twelfth session; and the report of the Commission on its eleventh session and provisional agenda and documentation for the twelfth session of the Commission.'' I also want to take the opportunity of this message to inform you that I will shortly leave the CONGO Secretariat to join the Geneva office of another international NGO. It's been a great pleasure and a wonderful experience to work with you all for those past 3 years - already!! - and I'm sure that, as I'll remain involved in UN processes connected to human rights, I'll cross many of you on the occasion of your participation in some WSIS related meetings in Geneva! Note that CONGO will maintain its monitoring of post WSIS processes and support to CS participation in them. More news coming soon. I'll also join the CS Plenary list shortly through my personal e-mail address, so that we will certainly keep in touch! Best, Philippe Philippe Dam CONGO - Information Society & Human Rights Coordinator 11, Avenue de la Paix CH-1202 Geneva Tel: +41 22 301 1000 Fax: +41 22 301 2000 E-mail: philippe.dam at ngocongo.org Website: www.ngocongo.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From anriette at apc.org Wed Jul 30 09:30:45 2008 From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:30:45 +0200 Subject: Thank you to Philippe, was, Re: [governance] ECOSOC considered CSTD Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up In-Reply-To: <200807301310.m6UDAcGV019472@smtp1.infomaniak.ch> References: <200807301310.m6UDAcGV019472@smtp1.infomaniak.ch> Message-ID: <48908925.4368.5F1CBA6@anriette.apc.org> Dear Philippe Thank you for this. Good to know that ECOSOC does consider the CSTD reports. I am not sure if there is really influence.. but at least it makes the agenda and some important decisions have been confirmed. As for your departure from CONGO! It is really sad news.. but good to know you will be in the sector and remain involved. I have personally found your facilitation and information provision over the last few years exceptionally useful. You understand the issues, you have a good sense of strategy, and your commitment to being inclusive has been exemplary. Thank you very much for all your hard work and wishing you all the best for the future. Anriette From: "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" To: , , Copies to: "'Philippe Dam'" Date sent: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:11:48 +0200 Organization: CONGO Subject: [governance] ECOSOC considered CSTD Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up Send reply to: governance at lists.cpsr.org, "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > Dear all, > > > > This is to inform you about the consideration by ECOSOC of the report > of the recent 11th session of the Commission on Science and Technology > for Development and the rubber stamping of the CSTD Resolution and its > 4 Decisions including those concerning civil society and academic > institution participation (see my previous posts on 2 and 6 June > 2008). > > > > See also ECOSOC Press Release: > http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/ecosoc6365.doc.htm on 18 July > 2008. > > > > "Under its item on science and technology for development, the Council > adopted, without a vote, one draft resolution and four draft decisions > contained in the report on the eleventh session of the Commission on > Science and Technology for Development (document E/2008/31). > > > > By the resolution, on assessment of the progress made in the > implementation of, and follow-up to, the outcomes of the two-phase > World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), held in Geneva > December 2003, and in Tunis in November 2005, the Council noted that, > while in general the digital divide between developed and developing > countries was shrinking, a new divide was emerging in terms of > differences in quality and speed of access to information and > communications technology. > > > > Among other things, the Council called on stakeholders to increase > their efforts to reduce the disparity in cost of access, through, for > example, the establishment of exchange points and the creation of a > competitive environment, both at the network and local levels. > > > > The Council also called on stakeholders to increase efforts for > funding of and investment in information and communication technology, > to advance broadband access, including wireless access in areas and > countries in which it was still limited or nonexistent. It also > called on those actors to continue to develop and disseminate > easy-to-use applications and services for mobile phones and related > devices, especially those that are useful in rural areas and work with > low bandwidth and high latency. > > > > The four draft decisions were on participation of non-governmental > organizations and civil society entities in the work of the Commission > on Science and Technology for Development at its twelfth and > thirteenth sessions; participation of academic entities in the work of > that Commission; the report of the Secretary-General on science, > technology and innovation to be submitted to the Commission at its > twelfth session; and the report of the Commission on its eleventh > session and provisional agenda and documentation for the twelfth > session of the Commission.'' > > > > > > I also want to take the opportunity of this message to inform you that > I will shortly leave the CONGO Secretariat to join the Geneva office > of another international NGO. It's been a great pleasure and a > wonderful experience to work with you all for those past 3 years - > already!! - and I'm sure that, as I'll remain involved in UN processes > connected to human rights, I'll cross many of you on the occasion of > your participation in some WSIS related meetings in Geneva! Note that > CONGO will maintain its monitoring of post WSIS processes and support > to CS participation in them. More news coming soon. > > > > I'll also join the CS Plenary list shortly through my personal e-mail > address, so that we will certainly keep in touch! > > > > Best, > > > > Philippe > > > > Philippe Dam > CONGO - Information Society & > Human Rights Coordinator > 11, Avenue de la Paix > CH-1202 Geneva > Tel: +41 22 301 1000 > Fax: +41 22 301 2000 > E-mail: philippe.dam at ngocongo.org > Website: www.ngocongo.org > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: > 7/29/2008 5:26 PM > > ------------------------------------------------------ Anriette Esterhuysen, Executive Director Association for Progressive Communications anriette at apc.org http://www.apc.org PO Box 29755, Melville, South Africa. 2109 Tel. 27 11 726 1692 Fax 27 11 726 1692 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Wed Jul 30 11:39:14 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:09:14 +0530 Subject: [governance] elections Message-ID: <20080730153925.0F539A6C7B@smtp2.electricembers.net> Hi All We have nearly finalized the web based system for the elections but Derrick Cogburn of Syracuse University who has graciously offered to help us in this matter is off till next week and we will be able to share the process with the IGC only next week. Thanks. Parminder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Wed Jul 30 14:08:10 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:08:10 -0700 Subject: Thank you to Philippe, was, Re: [governance] ECOSOC considered CSTD Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up In-Reply-To: <48908925.4368.5F1CBA6@anriette.apc.org> Message-ID: <019801c8f26f$4e148b40$89cc5318@michael78xnoln> I'll echo Anriette's comments. Best wishes and thanks Philippe! MG -----Original Message----- From: Anriette Esterhuysen [mailto:anriette at apc.org] Sent: July 30, 2008 6:31 AM To: plenary at wsis-cs.org; governance at lists.cpsr.org; gov at wsis-gov.org; CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam Cc: 'Philippe Dam' Subject: Thank you to Philippe, was, Re: [governance] ECOSOC considered CSTD Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up Dear Philippe Thank you for this. Good to know that ECOSOC does consider the CSTD reports. I am not sure if there is really influence.. but at least it makes the agenda and some important decisions have been confirmed. As for your departure from CONGO! It is really sad news.. but good to know you will be in the sector and remain involved. I have personally found your facilitation and information provision over the last few years exceptionally useful. You understand the issues, you have a good sense of strategy, and your commitment to being inclusive has been exemplary. Thank you very much for all your hard work and wishing you all the best for the future. Anriette From: "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" To: , , Copies to: "'Philippe Dam'" Date sent: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:11:48 +0200 Organization: CONGO Subject: [governance] ECOSOC considered CSTD Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up Send reply to: governance at lists.cpsr.org, "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > Dear all, > > > > This is to inform you about the consideration by ECOSOC of the report > of the recent 11th session of the Commission on Science and Technology > for Development and the rubber stamping of the CSTD Resolution and its > 4 Decisions including those concerning civil society and academic > institution participation (see my previous posts on 2 and 6 June > 2008). > > > > See also ECOSOC Press Release: > http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/ecosoc6365.doc.htm on 18 July > 2008. > > > > "Under its item on science and technology for development, the Council > adopted, without a vote, one draft resolution and four draft decisions > contained in the report on the eleventh session of the Commission on > Science and Technology for Development (document E/2008/31). > > > > By the resolution, on assessment of the progress made in the > implementation of, and follow-up to, the outcomes of the two-phase > World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), held in Geneva > December 2003, and in Tunis in November 2005, the Council noted that, > while in general the digital divide between developed and developing > countries was shrinking, a new divide was emerging in terms of > differences in quality and speed of access to information and > communications technology. > > > > Among other things, the Council called on stakeholders to increase > their efforts to reduce the disparity in cost of access, through, for > example, the establishment of exchange points and the creation of a > competitive environment, both at the network and local levels. > > > > The Council also called on stakeholders to increase efforts for > funding of and investment in information and communication technology, > to advance broadband access, including wireless access in areas and > countries in which it was still limited or nonexistent. It also > called on those actors to continue to develop and disseminate > easy-to-use applications and services for mobile phones and related > devices, especially those that are useful in rural areas and work with > low bandwidth and high latency. > > > > The four draft decisions were on participation of non-governmental > organizations and civil society entities in the work of the Commission > on Science and Technology for Development at its twelfth and > thirteenth sessions; participation of academic entities in the work of > that Commission; the report of the Secretary-General on science, > technology and innovation to be submitted to the Commission at its > twelfth session; and the report of the Commission on its eleventh > session and provisional agenda and documentation for the twelfth > session of the Commission.'' > > > > > > I also want to take the opportunity of this message to inform you that > I will shortly leave the CONGO Secretariat to join the Geneva office > of another international NGO. It's been a great pleasure and a > wonderful experience to work with you all for those past 3 years - > already!! - and I'm sure that, as I'll remain involved in UN processes > connected to human rights, I'll cross many of you on the occasion of > your participation in some WSIS related meetings in Geneva! Note that > CONGO will maintain its monitoring of post WSIS processes and support > to CS participation in them. More news coming soon. > > > > I'll also join the CS Plenary list shortly through my personal e-mail > address, so that we will certainly keep in touch! > > > > Best, > > > > Philippe > > > > Philippe Dam > CONGO - Information Society & > Human Rights Coordinator > 11, Avenue de la Paix > CH-1202 Geneva > Tel: +41 22 301 1000 > Fax: +41 22 301 2000 > E-mail: philippe.dam at ngocongo.org > Website: www.ngocongo.org > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: > 7/29/2008 5:26 PM > > ------------------------------------------------------ Anriette Esterhuysen, Executive Director Association for Progressive Communications anriette at apc.org http://www.apc.org PO Box 29755, Melville, South Africa. 2109 Tel. 27 11 726 1692 Fax 27 11 726 1692 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From nyangkweagien at gmail.com Wed Jul 30 14:54:22 2008 From: nyangkweagien at gmail.com (Nyangkwe Agien Aaron) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:54:22 +0100 Subject: Thank you to Philippe, was, Re: [governance] ECOSOC considered CSTD Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up In-Reply-To: <019801c8f26f$4e148b40$89cc5318@michael78xnoln> References: <48908925.4368.5F1CBA6@anriette.apc.org> <019801c8f26f$4e148b40$89cc5318@michael78xnoln> Message-ID: Phillipe Best wishes and much more success in your new assignment. Really enjoyed and appreciated your insights and the resources provided for this forum. Happy to learn that you will be around in another capacity to share. Will be a pleasure having you own. Aaron On 7/30/08, Michael Gurstein wrote: > I'll echo Anriette's comments. > > Best wishes and thanks Philippe! > > MG > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anriette Esterhuysen [mailto:anriette at apc.org] > Sent: July 30, 2008 6:31 AM > To: plenary at wsis-cs.org; governance at lists.cpsr.org; gov at wsis-gov.org; CONGO > WSIS - Philippe Dam > Cc: 'Philippe Dam' > Subject: Thank you to Philippe, was, Re: [governance] ECOSOC considered CSTD > Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up > > > Dear Philippe > > Thank you for this. Good to know that ECOSOC > does consider the CSTD reports. I am not sure > if there is really influence.. but at least it makes > the agenda and some important decisions have > been confirmed. > > As for your departure from CONGO! It is really > sad news.. but good to know you will be in the > sector and remain involved. > > I have personally found your facilitation and > information provision over the last few years > exceptionally useful. You understand the issues, > you have a good sense of strategy, and your > commitment to being inclusive has been > exemplary. > > Thank you very much for all your hard work and > wishing you all the best for the future. > > Anriette > > > From: "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > > To: , > , > > Copies to: "'Philippe Dam'" > > Date sent: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:11:48 +0200 > Organization: CONGO > Subject: [governance] ECOSOC > considered CSTD Report and adopted draft > CSTD > resolution on WSIS follow-up > Send reply to: governance at lists.cpsr.org, > "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > This is to inform you about the consideration by ECOSOC of the report > > of the recent 11th session of the Commission on Science and Technology > > for Development and the rubber stamping of the CSTD Resolution and its > > 4 Decisions including those concerning civil society and academic > > institution participation (see my previous posts on 2 and 6 June > > 2008). > > > > > > > > See also ECOSOC Press Release: > > http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/ecosoc6365.doc.htm on 18 July > > 2008. > > > > > > > > "Under its item on science and technology for development, the Council > > adopted, without a vote, one draft resolution and four draft decisions > > contained in the report on the eleventh session of the Commission on > > Science and Technology for Development (document E/2008/31). > > > > > > > > By the resolution, on assessment of the progress made in the > > implementation of, and follow-up to, the outcomes of the two-phase > > World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), held in Geneva > > December 2003, and in Tunis in November 2005, the Council noted that, > > while in general the digital divide between developed and developing > > countries was shrinking, a new divide was emerging in terms of > > differences in quality and speed of access to information and > > communications technology. > > > > > > > > Among other things, the Council called on stakeholders to increase > > their efforts to reduce the disparity in cost of access, through, for > > example, the establishment of exchange points and the creation of a > > competitive environment, both at the network and local levels. > > > > > > > > The Council also called on stakeholders to increase efforts for > > funding of and investment in information and communication technology, > > to advance broadband access, including wireless access in areas and > > countries in which it was still limited or nonexistent. It also > > called on those actors to continue to develop and disseminate > > easy-to-use applications and services for mobile phones and related > > devices, especially those that are useful in rural areas and work with > > low bandwidth and high latency. > > > > > > > > The four draft decisions were on participation of non-governmental > > organizations and civil society entities in the work of the Commission > > on Science and Technology for Development at its twelfth and > > thirteenth sessions; participation of academic entities in the work of > > that Commission; the report of the Secretary-General on science, > > technology and innovation to be submitted to the Commission at its > > twelfth session; and the report of the Commission on its eleventh > > session and provisional agenda and documentation for the twelfth > > session of the Commission.'' > > > > > > > > > > > > I also want to take the opportunity of this message to inform you that > > I will shortly leave the CONGO Secretariat to join the Geneva office > > of another international NGO. It's been a great pleasure and a > > wonderful experience to work with you all for those past 3 years - > > already!! - and I'm sure that, as I'll remain involved in UN processes > > connected to human rights, I'll cross many of you on the occasion of > > your participation in some WSIS related meetings in Geneva! Note that > > CONGO will maintain its monitoring of post WSIS processes and support > > to CS participation in them. More news coming soon. > > > > > > > > I'll also join the CS Plenary list shortly through my personal e-mail > > address, so that we will certainly keep in touch! > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Philippe > > > > > > > > Philippe Dam > > CONGO - Information Society & > > Human Rights Coordinator > > 11, Avenue de la Paix > > CH-1202 Geneva > > Tel: +41 22 301 1000 > > Fax: +41 22 301 2000 > > E-mail: philippe.dam at ngocongo.org > > Website: www.ngocongo.org > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: > > 7/29/2008 5:26 PM > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Anriette Esterhuysen, Executive Director > Association for Progressive Communications > anriette at apc.org > http://www.apc.org > PO Box 29755, Melville, South Africa. 2109 > Tel. 27 11 726 1692 > Fax 27 11 726 1692 > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- Aaron Agien Nyangkwe Journalist/Outcome Mapper Special Assistant To The President Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. ASAFE P.O.Box 5213 Douala-Cameroon Tel. 237 3337 50 22 Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 Fax. 237 3342 29 70 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Thu Jul 31 01:58:08 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:28:08 +0530 Subject: [governance] RE: Thank you to Philippe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080731055815.1DFDC67858@smtp1.electricembers.net> Philippe did some excellent work as a civil society focal point for WSIS and post-WSIS work. In fact his manner of working represents to me the picture perfect way of managing such a focal point. In a networked world as civil society is discovering most effective ways to make impact, especially at the global level, Philippe's work afforded a good example of how to manage crucial choke points of a complex civil society network. Anriette's description captures it aptly "You understand the issues, you have a good sense of strategy, and your commitment to being inclusive has been exemplary." So thank you Philippe once again. And wishing you the very best. In fact, we should extend this felicitation as much to Philippe's boss Renate who made a quite exit from CONGO a few months back. CONGO's work under her was of outstanding help for a very diverse and dispersed WSIS civil society. While we hope to get the same kind of help from CONGO in future, we wish Renate and Philippe the best in the new areas of activities they have taken up. (Renate like Philippe continues to be very active in other civil society organizations.) Parminder > -----Original Message----- > From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron [mailto:nyangkweagien at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:24 AM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Michael Gurstein > Subject: Re: Thank you to Philippe, was, Re: [governance] ECOSOC > considered CSTD Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up > > Phillipe > > Best wishes and much more success in your new assignment. > Really enjoyed and appreciated your insights and the resources > provided for this forum. > Happy to learn that you will be around in another capacity to share. > Will be a pleasure having you own. > > Aaron > > On 7/30/08, Michael Gurstein wrote: > > I'll echo Anriette's comments. > > > > Best wishes and thanks Philippe! > > > > MG > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Anriette Esterhuysen [mailto:anriette at apc.org] > > Sent: July 30, 2008 6:31 AM > > To: plenary at wsis-cs.org; governance at lists.cpsr.org; gov at wsis-gov.org; > CONGO > > WSIS - Philippe Dam > > Cc: 'Philippe Dam' > > Subject: Thank you to Philippe, was, Re: [governance] ECOSOC considered > CSTD > > Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up > > > > > > Dear Philippe > > > > Thank you for this. Good to know that ECOSOC > > does consider the CSTD reports. I am not sure > > if there is really influence.. but at least it makes > > the agenda and some important decisions have > > been confirmed. > > > > As for your departure from CONGO! It is really > > sad news.. but good to know you will be in the > > sector and remain involved. > > > > I have personally found your facilitation and > > information provision over the last few years > > exceptionally useful. You understand the issues, > > you have a good sense of strategy, and your > > commitment to being inclusive has been > > exemplary. > > > > Thank you very much for all your hard work and > > wishing you all the best for the future. > > > > Anriette > > > > > > From: "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > > > > To: , > > , > > > > Copies to: "'Philippe Dam'" > > > > Date sent: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:11:48 +0200 > > Organization: CONGO > > Subject: [governance] ECOSOC > > considered CSTD Report and adopted draft > > CSTD > > resolution on WSIS follow-up > > Send reply to: governance at lists.cpsr.org, > > "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > This is to inform you about the consideration by ECOSOC of the report > > > of the recent 11th session of the Commission on Science and Technology > > > for Development and the rubber stamping of the CSTD Resolution and its > > > 4 Decisions including those concerning civil society and academic > > > institution participation (see my previous posts on 2 and 6 June > > > 2008). > > > > > > > > > > > > See also ECOSOC Press Release: > > > http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/ecosoc6365.doc.htm on 18 July > > > 2008. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Under its item on science and technology for development, the Council > > > adopted, without a vote, one draft resolution and four draft decisions > > > contained in the report on the eleventh session of the Commission on > > > Science and Technology for Development (document E/2008/31). > > > > > > > > > > > > By the resolution, on assessment of the progress made in the > > > implementation of, and follow-up to, the outcomes of the two-phase > > > World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), held in Geneva > > > December 2003, and in Tunis in November 2005, the Council noted that, > > > while in general the digital divide between developed and developing > > > countries was shrinking, a new divide was emerging in terms of > > > differences in quality and speed of access to information and > > > communications technology. > > > > > > > > > > > > Among other things, the Council called on stakeholders to increase > > > their efforts to reduce the disparity in cost of access, through, for > > > example, the establishment of exchange points and the creation of a > > > competitive environment, both at the network and local levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Council also called on stakeholders to increase efforts for > > > funding of and investment in information and communication technology, > > > to advance broadband access, including wireless access in areas and > > > countries in which it was still limited or nonexistent. It also > > > called on those actors to continue to develop and disseminate > > > easy-to-use applications and services for mobile phones and related > > > devices, especially those that are useful in rural areas and work with > > > low bandwidth and high latency. > > > > > > > > > > > > The four draft decisions were on participation of non-governmental > > > organizations and civil society entities in the work of the Commission > > > on Science and Technology for Development at its twelfth and > > > thirteenth sessions; participation of academic entities in the work of > > > that Commission; the report of the Secretary-General on science, > > > technology and innovation to be submitted to the Commission at its > > > twelfth session; and the report of the Commission on its eleventh > > > session and provisional agenda and documentation for the twelfth > > > session of the Commission.'' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also want to take the opportunity of this message to inform you that > > > I will shortly leave the CONGO Secretariat to join the Geneva office > > > of another international NGO. It's been a great pleasure and a > > > wonderful experience to work with you all for those past 3 years - > > > already!! - and I'm sure that, as I'll remain involved in UN processes > > > connected to human rights, I'll cross many of you on the occasion of > > > your participation in some WSIS related meetings in Geneva! Note that > > > CONGO will maintain its monitoring of post WSIS processes and support > > > to CS participation in them. More news coming soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll also join the CS Plenary list shortly through my personal e-mail > > > address, so that we will certainly keep in touch! > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > > > Philippe > > > > > > > > > > > > Philippe Dam > > > CONGO - Information Society & > > > Human Rights Coordinator > > > 11, Avenue de la Paix > > > CH-1202 Geneva > > > Tel: +41 22 301 1000 > > > Fax: +41 22 301 2000 > > > E-mail: philippe.dam at ngocongo.org > > > Website: www.ngocongo.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: > > > 7/29/2008 5:26 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Anriette Esterhuysen, Executive Director > > Association for Progressive Communications > > anriette at apc.org > > http://www.apc.org > > PO Box 29755, Melville, South Africa. 2109 > > Tel. 27 11 726 1692 > > Fax 27 11 726 1692 > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > -- > Aaron Agien Nyangkwe > Journalist/Outcome Mapper > Special Assistant To The President > Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. > ASAFE > P.O.Box 5213 > Douala-Cameroon > Tel. 237 3337 50 22 > Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 > Fax. 237 3342 29 70 > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Thu Jul 31 06:20:38 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:20:38 +1000 Subject: [governance] RE: Thank you to Philippe In-Reply-To: <20080731055815.1DFDC67858@smtp1.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <04ab01c8f2f7$17895820$8b00a8c0@IAN> Yes, all the best Philippe, and I am glad you are not lost to us altogether! I did not realise Renate had moved on as well - observing both of you in Rio was a great lesson in how to work effectively with a diverse group of NGOs towards a common cause. Ian Peter Ian Peter and Associates Pty Ltd PO Box 10670 Adelaide St Brisbane 4000 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] > Sent: 31 July 2008 15:58 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: [governance] RE: Thank you to Philippe > > > > > Philippe did some excellent work as a civil society focal point for WSIS > and > post-WSIS work. In fact his manner of working represents to me the picture > perfect way of managing such a focal point. > > In a networked world as civil society is discovering most effective ways > to > make impact, especially at the global level, Philippe's work afforded a > good > example of how to manage crucial choke points of a complex civil society > network. Anriette's description captures it aptly "You understand the > issues, you have a good sense of strategy, and your commitment to being > inclusive has been exemplary." > > So thank you Philippe once again. And wishing you the very best. > > In fact, we should extend this felicitation as much to Philippe's boss > Renate who made a quite exit from CONGO a few months back. CONGO's work > under her was of outstanding help for a very diverse and dispersed WSIS > civil society. > > While we hope to get the same kind of help from CONGO in future, we wish > Renate and Philippe the best in the new areas of activities they have > taken > up. (Renate like Philippe continues to be very active in other civil > society > organizations.) > > Parminder > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron [mailto:nyangkweagien at gmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:24 AM > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Michael Gurstein > > Subject: Re: Thank you to Philippe, was, Re: [governance] ECOSOC > > considered CSTD Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow- > up > > > > Phillipe > > > > Best wishes and much more success in your new assignment. > > Really enjoyed and appreciated your insights and the resources > > provided for this forum. > > Happy to learn that you will be around in another capacity to share. > > Will be a pleasure having you own. > > > > Aaron > > > > On 7/30/08, Michael Gurstein wrote: > > > I'll echo Anriette's comments. > > > > > > Best wishes and thanks Philippe! > > > > > > MG > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Anriette Esterhuysen [mailto:anriette at apc.org] > > > Sent: July 30, 2008 6:31 AM > > > To: plenary at wsis-cs.org; governance at lists.cpsr.org; gov at wsis-gov.org; > > CONGO > > > WSIS - Philippe Dam > > > Cc: 'Philippe Dam' > > > Subject: Thank you to Philippe, was, Re: [governance] ECOSOC > considered > > CSTD > > > Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up > > > > > > > > > Dear Philippe > > > > > > Thank you for this. Good to know that ECOSOC > > > does consider the CSTD reports. I am not sure > > > if there is really influence.. but at least it makes > > > the agenda and some important decisions have > > > been confirmed. > > > > > > As for your departure from CONGO! It is really > > > sad news.. but good to know you will be in the > > > sector and remain involved. > > > > > > I have personally found your facilitation and > > > information provision over the last few years > > > exceptionally useful. You understand the issues, > > > you have a good sense of strategy, and your > > > commitment to being inclusive has been > > > exemplary. > > > > > > Thank you very much for all your hard work and > > > wishing you all the best for the future. > > > > > > Anriette > > > > > > > > > From: "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > > > > > > To: , > > > , > > > > > > Copies to: "'Philippe Dam'" > > > > > > Date sent: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:11:48 +0200 > > > Organization: CONGO > > > Subject: [governance] ECOSOC > > > considered CSTD Report and adopted draft > > > CSTD > > > resolution on WSIS follow-up > > > Send reply to: governance at lists.cpsr.org, > > > "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is to inform you about the consideration by ECOSOC of the > report > > > > of the recent 11th session of the Commission on Science and > Technology > > > > for Development and the rubber stamping of the CSTD Resolution and > its > > > > 4 Decisions including those concerning civil society and academic > > > > institution participation (see my previous posts on 2 and 6 June > > > > 2008). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See also ECOSOC Press Release: > > > > http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/ecosoc6365.doc.htm on 18 July > > > > 2008. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Under its item on science and technology for development, the > Council > > > > adopted, without a vote, one draft resolution and four draft > decisions > > > > contained in the report on the eleventh session of the Commission on > > > > Science and Technology for Development (document E/2008/31). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the resolution, on assessment of the progress made in the > > > > implementation of, and follow-up to, the outcomes of the two-phase > > > > World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), held in Geneva > > > > December 2003, and in Tunis in November 2005, the Council noted > that, > > > > while in general the digital divide between developed and developing > > > > countries was shrinking, a new divide was emerging in terms of > > > > differences in quality and speed of access to information and > > > > communications technology. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Among other things, the Council called on stakeholders to increase > > > > their efforts to reduce the disparity in cost of access, through, > for > > > > example, the establishment of exchange points and the creation of a > > > > competitive environment, both at the network and local levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Council also called on stakeholders to increase efforts for > > > > funding of and investment in information and communication > technology, > > > > to advance broadband access, including wireless access in areas and > > > > countries in which it was still limited or nonexistent. It also > > > > called on those actors to continue to develop and disseminate > > > > easy-to-use applications and services for mobile phones and related > > > > devices, especially those that are useful in rural areas and work > with > > > > low bandwidth and high latency. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The four draft decisions were on participation of non-governmental > > > > organizations and civil society entities in the work of the > Commission > > > > on Science and Technology for Development at its twelfth and > > > > thirteenth sessions; participation of academic entities in the work > of > > > > that Commission; the report of the Secretary-General on science, > > > > technology and innovation to be submitted to the Commission at its > > > > twelfth session; and the report of the Commission on its eleventh > > > > session and provisional agenda and documentation for the twelfth > > > > session of the Commission.'' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also want to take the opportunity of this message to inform you > that > > > > I will shortly leave the CONGO Secretariat to join the Geneva office > > > > of another international NGO. It's been a great pleasure and a > > > > wonderful experience to work with you all for those past 3 years - > > > > already!! - and I'm sure that, as I'll remain involved in UN > processes > > > > connected to human rights, I'll cross many of you on the occasion of > > > > your participation in some WSIS related meetings in Geneva! Note > that > > > > CONGO will maintain its monitoring of post WSIS processes and > support > > > > to CS participation in them. More news coming soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll also join the CS Plenary list shortly through my personal e- > mail > > > > address, so that we will certainly keep in touch! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Philippe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Philippe Dam > > > > CONGO - Information Society & > > > > Human Rights Coordinator > > > > 11, Avenue de la Paix > > > > CH-1202 Geneva > > > > Tel: +41 22 301 1000 > > > > Fax: +41 22 301 2000 > > > > E-mail: > philippe.dam at ngocongo.org > > > > Website: www.ngocongo.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > > > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: > > > > 7/29/2008 5:26 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > Anriette Esterhuysen, Executive Director > > > Association for Progressive Communications > > > anriette at apc.org > > > http://www.apc.org > > > PO Box 29755, Melville, South Africa. 2109 > > > Tel. 27 11 726 1692 > > > Fax 27 11 726 1692 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > > -- > > Aaron Agien Nyangkwe > > Journalist/Outcome Mapper > > Special Assistant To The President > > Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. > > ASAFE > > P.O.Box 5213 > > Douala-Cameroon > > Tel. 237 3337 50 22 > > Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 > > Fax. 237 3342 29 70 > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.8/1582 - Release Date: 7/30/2008 > 6:37 PM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Thu Jul 31 07:31:37 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:01:37 +0530 Subject: [WSIS CS-Plenary] [governance] RE: Thank you to Philippe In-Reply-To: <20080731093621.2C2B07000089@mwinf2b04.orange.fr> Message-ID: <20080731113144.AAF55E049C@smtp3.electricembers.net> Renate >I thought it was not so quiet, as it was the natural exit as President >during the last CONGO General Assembly after a two term mandate. Of course, I meant 'quite' only with respect to IGC and WSIS plenary lists. Best Wishes Parminder > -----Original Message----- > From: plenary-bounces at wsis-cs.org [mailto:plenary-bounces at wsis-cs.org] On > Behalf Of Renate Bloem (Gmail) > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 3:06 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Parminder' > Cc: CS Plenary > Subject: Re: [WSIS CS-Plenary] [governance] RE: Thank you to Philippe > > [Please note that by using 'REPLY', your response goes to the entire list. > Kindly use individual addresses for responses intended for specific > people] > > Click http://wsis.funredes.org/plenary/ to access automatic translation of > this message! > _______________________________________ > > Thank you, Parminder, for your kind words and yes, Philippe has been quite > outstanding. > > Regarding my "quiet exit" from CONGO, I thought it was not so quiet, as it > was the natural exit as President during the last CONGO General Assembly > after a two term mandate. As this was public knowledge on our website etc, > it occurred to me only later that I did not send a note to our various > WSIS > follow up lists which are not so directly in the CONGO mainstream. > > I personally enjoyed tremendously working with all of you since day 1 of > WSIS and hope to continue to cross your paths on- and off-line. > > Best > > Renate > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] > Sent: jeudi, 31. juillet 2008 07:58 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: [governance] RE: Thank you to Philippe > > > > > Philippe did some excellent work as a civil society focal point for WSIS > and > post-WSIS work. In fact his manner of working represents to me the picture > perfect way of managing such a focal point. > > In a networked world as civil society is discovering most effective ways > to > make impact, especially at the global level, Philippe's work afforded a > good > example of how to manage crucial choke points of a complex civil society > network. Anriette's description captures it aptly "You understand the > issues, you have a good sense of strategy, and your commitment to being > inclusive has been exemplary." > > So thank you Philippe once again. And wishing you the very best. > > In fact, we should extend this felicitation as much to Philippe's boss > Renate who made a quite exit from CONGO a few months back. CONGO's work > under her was of outstanding help for a very diverse and dispersed WSIS > civil society. > > While we hope to get the same kind of help from CONGO in future, we wish > Renate and Philippe the best in the new areas of activities they have > taken > up. (Renate like Philippe continues to be very active in other civil > society > organizations.) > > Parminder > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron [mailto:nyangkweagien at gmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:24 AM > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Michael Gurstein > > Subject: Re: Thank you to Philippe, was, Re: [governance] ECOSOC > > considered CSTD Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow- > up > > > > Phillipe > > > > Best wishes and much more success in your new assignment. > > Really enjoyed and appreciated your insights and the resources > > provided for this forum. > > Happy to learn that you will be around in another capacity to share. > > Will be a pleasure having you own. > > > > Aaron > > > > On 7/30/08, Michael Gurstein wrote: > > > I'll echo Anriette's comments. > > > > > > Best wishes and thanks Philippe! > > > > > > MG > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Anriette Esterhuysen [mailto:anriette at apc.org] > > > Sent: July 30, 2008 6:31 AM > > > To: plenary at wsis-cs.org; governance at lists.cpsr.org; gov at wsis-gov.org; > > CONGO > > > WSIS - Philippe Dam > > > Cc: 'Philippe Dam' > > > Subject: Thank you to Philippe, was, Re: [governance] ECOSOC > considered > > CSTD > > > Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up > > > > > > > > > Dear Philippe > > > > > > Thank you for this. Good to know that ECOSOC > > > does consider the CSTD reports. I am not sure > > > if there is really influence.. but at least it makes > > > the agenda and some important decisions have > > > been confirmed. > > > > > > As for your departure from CONGO! It is really > > > sad news.. but good to know you will be in the > > > sector and remain involved. > > > > > > I have personally found your facilitation and > > > information provision over the last few years > > > exceptionally useful. You understand the issues, > > > you have a good sense of strategy, and your > > > commitment to being inclusive has been > > > exemplary. > > > > > > Thank you very much for all your hard work and > > > wishing you all the best for the future. > > > > > > Anriette > > > > > > > > > From: "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > > > > > > To: , > > > , > > > > > > Copies to: "'Philippe Dam'" > > > > > > Date sent: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:11:48 +0200 > > > Organization: CONGO > > > Subject: [governance] ECOSOC > > > considered CSTD Report and adopted draft > > > CSTD > > > resolution on WSIS follow-up > > > Send reply to: governance at lists.cpsr.org, > > > "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is to inform you about the consideration by ECOSOC of the > report > > > > of the recent 11th session of the Commission on Science and > Technology > > > > for Development and the rubber stamping of the CSTD Resolution and > its > > > > 4 Decisions including those concerning civil society and academic > > > > institution participation (see my previous posts on 2 and 6 June > > > > 2008). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See also ECOSOC Press Release: > > > > http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/ecosoc6365.doc.htm on 18 July > > > > 2008. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Under its item on science and technology for development, the > Council > > > > adopted, without a vote, one draft resolution and four draft > decisions > > > > contained in the report on the eleventh session of the Commission on > > > > Science and Technology for Development (document E/2008/31). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the resolution, on assessment of the progress made in the > > > > implementation of, and follow-up to, the outcomes of the two-phase > > > > World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), held in Geneva > > > > December 2003, and in Tunis in November 2005, the Council noted > that, > > > > while in general the digital divide between developed and developing > > > > countries was shrinking, a new divide was emerging in terms of > > > > differences in quality and speed of access to information and > > > > communications technology. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Among other things, the Council called on stakeholders to increase > > > > their efforts to reduce the disparity in cost of access, through, > for > > > > example, the establishment of exchange points and the creation of a > > > > competitive environment, both at the network and local levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Council also called on stakeholders to increase efforts for > > > > funding of and investment in information and communication > technology, > > > > to advance broadband access, including wireless access in areas and > > > > countries in which it was still limited or nonexistent. It also > > > > called on those actors to continue to develop and disseminate > > > > easy-to-use applications and services for mobile phones and related > > > > devices, especially those that are useful in rural areas and work > with > > > > low bandwidth and high latency. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The four draft decisions were on participation of non-governmental > > > > organizations and civil society entities in the work of the > Commission > > > > on Science and Technology for Development at its twelfth and > > > > thirteenth sessions; participation of academic entities in the work > of > > > > that Commission; the report of the Secretary-General on science, > > > > technology and innovation to be submitted to the Commission at its > > > > twelfth session; and the report of the Commission on its eleventh > > > > session and provisional agenda and documentation for the twelfth > > > > session of the Commission.'' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also want to take the opportunity of this message to inform you > that > > > > I will shortly leave the CONGO Secretariat to join the Geneva office > > > > of another international NGO. It's been a great pleasure and a > > > > wonderful experience to work with you all for those past 3 years - > > > > already!! - and I'm sure that, as I'll remain involved in UN > processes > > > > connected to human rights, I'll cross many of you on the occasion of > > > > your participation in some WSIS related meetings in Geneva! Note > that > > > > CONGO will maintain its monitoring of post WSIS processes and > support > > > > to CS participation in them. More news coming soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll also join the CS Plenary list shortly through my personal e- > mail > > > > address, so that we will certainly keep in touch! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Philippe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Philippe Dam > > > > CONGO - Information Society & > > > > Human Rights Coordinator > > > > 11, Avenue de la Paix > > > > CH-1202 Geneva > > > > Tel: +41 22 301 1000 > > > > Fax: +41 22 301 2000 > > > > E-mail: > philippe.dam at ngocongo.org > > > > Website: www.ngocongo.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > > > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: > > > > 7/29/2008 5:26 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > Anriette Esterhuysen, Executive Director > > > Association for Progressive Communications > > > anriette at apc.org > > > http://www.apc.org > > > PO Box 29755, Melville, South Africa. 2109 > > > Tel. 27 11 726 1692 > > > Fax 27 11 726 1692 > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > > -- > > Aaron Agien Nyangkwe > > Journalist/Outcome Mapper > > Special Assistant To The President > > Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. > > ASAFE > > P.O.Box 5213 > > Douala-Cameroon > > Tel. 237 3337 50 22 > > Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 > > Fax. 237 3342 29 70 > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > _______________________________________________ > Plenary mailing list > Plenary at wsis-cs.org > http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plenary ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From b.schombe at gmail.com Thu Jul 31 08:50:07 2008 From: b.schombe at gmail.com (BAUDOUIN SCHOMBE) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:50:07 +0100 Subject: Thank you to Philippe, was, Re: [governance] ECOSOC considered CSTD Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up In-Reply-To: References: <48908925.4368.5F1CBA6@anriette.apc.org> <019801c8f26f$4e148b40$89cc5318@michael78xnoln> Message-ID: Philippe, Nous étions très satisfait de ton travail de communication sur cette plate forme. Je te souhaite beaucoup de bonne chose dans ta nouvelle occupation. Baudouin 2008/7/30 Nyangkwe Agien Aaron > Phillipe > > Best wishes and much more success in your new assignment. > Really enjoyed and appreciated your insights and the resources > provided for this forum. > Happy to learn that you will be around in another capacity to share. > Will be a pleasure having you own. > > Aaron > > On 7/30/08, Michael Gurstein wrote: > > I'll echo Anriette's comments. > > > > Best wishes and thanks Philippe! > > > > MG > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Anriette Esterhuysen [mailto:anriette at apc.org] > > Sent: July 30, 2008 6:31 AM > > To: plenary at wsis-cs.org; governance at lists.cpsr.org; gov at wsis-gov.org; > CONGO > > WSIS - Philippe Dam > > Cc: 'Philippe Dam' > > Subject: Thank you to Philippe, was, Re: [governance] ECOSOC considered > CSTD > > Report and adopted draft CSTD resolution on WSIS follow-up > > > > > > Dear Philippe > > > > Thank you for this. Good to know that ECOSOC > > does consider the CSTD reports. I am not sure > > if there is really influence.. but at least it makes > > the agenda and some important decisions have > > been confirmed. > > > > As for your departure from CONGO! It is really > > sad news.. but good to know you will be in the > > sector and remain involved. > > > > I have personally found your facilitation and > > information provision over the last few years > > exceptionally useful. You understand the issues, > > you have a good sense of strategy, and your > > commitment to being inclusive has been > > exemplary. > > > > Thank you very much for all your hard work and > > wishing you all the best for the future. > > > > Anriette > > > > > > From: "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > > > > To: , > > , > > > > Copies to: "'Philippe Dam'" > > > > Date sent: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:11:48 +0200 > > Organization: CONGO > > Subject: [governance] ECOSOC > > considered CSTD Report and adopted draft > > CSTD > > resolution on WSIS follow-up > > Send reply to: governance at lists.cpsr.org, > > "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > This is to inform you about the consideration by ECOSOC of the report > > > of the recent 11th session of the Commission on Science and Technology > > > for Development and the rubber stamping of the CSTD Resolution and its > > > 4 Decisions including those concerning civil society and academic > > > institution participation (see my previous posts on 2 and 6 June > > > 2008). > > > > > > > > > > > > See also ECOSOC Press Release: > > > http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/ecosoc6365.doc.htm on 18 July > > > 2008. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Under its item on science and technology for development, the Council > > > adopted, without a vote, one draft resolution and four draft decisions > > > contained in the report on the eleventh session of the Commission on > > > Science and Technology for Development (document E/2008/31). > > > > > > > > > > > > By the resolution, on assessment of the progress made in the > > > implementation of, and follow-up to, the outcomes of the two-phase > > > World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), held in Geneva > > > December 2003, and in Tunis in November 2005, the Council noted that, > > > while in general the digital divide between developed and developing > > > countries was shrinking, a new divide was emerging in terms of > > > differences in quality and speed of access to information and > > > communications technology. > > > > > > > > > > > > Among other things, the Council called on stakeholders to increase > > > their efforts to reduce the disparity in cost of access, through, for > > > example, the establishment of exchange points and the creation of a > > > competitive environment, both at the network and local levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Council also called on stakeholders to increase efforts for > > > funding of and investment in information and communication technology, > > > to advance broadband access, including wireless access in areas and > > > countries in which it was still limited or nonexistent. It also > > > called on those actors to continue to develop and disseminate > > > easy-to-use applications and services for mobile phones and related > > > devices, especially those that are useful in rural areas and work with > > > low bandwidth and high latency. > > > > > > > > > > > > The four draft decisions were on participation of non-governmental > > > organizations and civil society entities in the work of the Commission > > > on Science and Technology for Development at its twelfth and > > > thirteenth sessions; participation of academic entities in the work of > > > that Commission; the report of the Secretary-General on science, > > > technology and innovation to be submitted to the Commission at its > > > twelfth session; and the report of the Commission on its eleventh > > > session and provisional agenda and documentation for the twelfth > > > session of the Commission.'' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also want to take the opportunity of this message to inform you that > > > I will shortly leave the CONGO Secretariat to join the Geneva office > > > of another international NGO. It's been a great pleasure and a > > > wonderful experience to work with you all for those past 3 years - > > > already!! - and I'm sure that, as I'll remain involved in UN processes > > > connected to human rights, I'll cross many of you on the occasion of > > > your participation in some WSIS related meetings in Geneva! Note that > > > CONGO will maintain its monitoring of post WSIS processes and support > > > to CS participation in them. More news coming soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll also join the CS Plenary list shortly through my personal e-mail > > > address, so that we will certainly keep in touch! > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > > > Philippe > > > > > > > > > > > > Philippe Dam > > > CONGO - Information Society & > > > Human Rights Coordinator > > > 11, Avenue de la Paix > > > CH-1202 Geneva > > > Tel: +41 22 301 1000 > > > Fax: +41 22 301 2000 > > > E-mail: philippe.dam at ngocongo.org > > > Website: www.ngocongo.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: > > > 7/29/2008 5:26 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Anriette Esterhuysen, Executive Director > > Association for Progressive Communications > > anriette at apc.org > > http://www.apc.org > > PO Box 29755, Melville, South Africa. 2109 > > Tel. 27 11 726 1692 > > Fax 27 11 726 1692 > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > -- > Aaron Agien Nyangkwe > Journalist/Outcome Mapper > Special Assistant To The President > Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team. > ASAFE > P.O.Box 5213 > Douala-Cameroon > Tel. 237 3337 50 22 > Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97 > Fax. 237 3342 29 70 > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN COORDONNATEUR NATIONAL REPRONTIC COORDONNATEUR SOUS REGIONAL ACSIS/AFRIQUE CENTRALE MEMBRE FACILITATEUR GAID AFRIQUE Tél:+243998983491 email:b.schombe at gmail.com http://akimambo.unblog.fr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From divina.meigs at orange.fr Thu Jul 31 16:12:39 2008 From: divina.meigs at orange.fr (Divina MEIGS) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:12:39 +0200 (CEST) Subject: : [governance] ECOSOC considered CSTD Report and adopted draftk Message-ID: <11453551.972791217535159494.JavaMail.www@wwinf1c19> Many thanks Philippe for this good  piece of news. it is not sure that the CSTD will be able to reform itself totally but it is important to keep trying so that some of the positive spirit from WSIS continues. Sorry you will no longer be with us for the follow up on the process but good luck on your new position where I am sure all the qualities you put to the service of our community will be duly appreciated. best Divina >  > > From:"CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > > To:, > , > > Copies to:"'Philippe Dam'" > > Date sent:Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:11:48 +0200 > Organization:CONGO > Subject:[governance] ECOSOC > considered CSTD Report and adopted draft > CSTD > resolution on WSIS follow-up > Send reply to:governance at lists.cpsr.org, > "CONGO WSIS - Philippe Dam" > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > This is to inform you about the consideration by ECOSOC of the report > > of the recent 11th session of the Commission on Science and Technology > > for Development and the rubber stamping of the CSTD Resolution and its > > 4 Decisions including those concerning civil society and academic > > institution participation (see my previous posts on 2 and 6 June > > 2008). > > > > > > > > See also ECOSOC Press Release: > > http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/ecosoc6365.doc.htm on 18 July > > 2008. > > > > > > > > "Under its item on science and technology for development, the Council > > adopted, without a vote, one draft resolution and four draft decisions > > contained in the report on the eleventh session of the Commission on > > Science and Technology for Development (document E/2008/31). > > > > > > > > By the resolution, on assessment of the progress made in the > > implementation of, and follow-up to, the outcomes of the two-phase > > World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), held in Geneva > > December 2003, and in Tunis in November 2005, the Council noted that, > > while in general the digital divide between developed and developing > > countries was shrinking, a new divide was emerging in terms of > > differences in quality and speed of access to information and > > communications technology. > > > > > > > > Among other things, the Council called on stakeholders to increase > > their efforts to reduce the disparity in cost of access, through, for > > example, the establishment of exchange points and the creation of a > > competitive environment, both at the network and local levels. > > > > > > > > The Council also called on stakeholders to increase efforts for > > funding of and investment in information and communication technology, > > to advance broadband access, including wireless access in areas and > > countries in which it was still limited or nonexistent. It also > > called on those actors to continue to develop and disseminate > > easy-to-use applications and services for mobile phones and related > > devices, especially those that are useful in rural areas and work with > > low bandwidth and high latency. > > > > > > > > The four draft decisions were on participation of non-governmental > > organizations and civil society entities in the work of the Commission > > on Science and Technology for Development at its twelfth and > > thirteenth sessions; participation of academic entities in the work of > > that Commission; the report of the Secretary-General on science, > > technology and innovation to be submitted to the Commission at its > > twelfth session; and the report of the Commission on its eleventh > > session and provisional agenda and documentation for the twelfth > > session of the Commission.'' > > > > > > > > > > > > I also want to take the opportunity of this message to inform you that > > I will shortly leave the CONGO Secretariat to join the Geneva office > > of another international NGO. It's been a great pleasure and a > > wonderful experience to work with you all for those past 3 years - > > already!! - and I'm sure that, as I'll remain involved in UN processes > > connected to human rights, I'll cross many of you on the occasion of > > your participation in some WSIS related meetings in Geneva! Note that > > CONGO will maintain its monitoring of post WSIS processes and support > > to CS participation in them. More news coming soon. > > > > > > > > I'll also join the CS Plenary list shortly through my personal e-mail > > address, so that we will certainly keep in touch! > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Philippe > > > > > > > > Philippe Dam > > CONGO - Information Society & > > Human Rights Coordinator > > 11, Avenue de la Paix > > CH-1202 Geneva > > Tel: +41 22 301 1000 > > Fax: +41 22 301 2000 > > E-mail: philippe.dam at ngocongo.org > > Website: www.ngocongo.org > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: > > 7/29/2008 5:26 PM > > > > > > > > -------------- -------------------------- > Anriette Esterhuysen, Executive Director > Association for Progressive Communications > anriette at apc.org > http://www.apc.org > PO Box 29755, Melville, South Africa. 2109 > Tel. 27 11 726 1692 > Fax 27 11 726 1692 > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > Divina Frau-Meigs professeur, université Paris 3-Sorbonne sociologue des médias vice-présidente, AIERI/IAMCR (Ass.Int.des Etudes et Recherches en Info-com) tel/fax: 33 1 42 77 91 69 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Thu Jul 31 16:11:29 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 06:11:29 +1000 Subject: [governance] USG on ICANN - no movement here Message-ID: <052401c8f349$a1ec4fc0$8b00a8c0@IAN> DOC has commented on ICANN's call for comments on improving insititutional confidence at http://www.ntia.doc.gov/comments/2008/ICANN_080730.html The statement reads like an end of term report for a non-performing student, with barely a word of encouragement. In regards to a root zone transition agreement, the statement includes "The Department believes strongly that it is important to clarify that we are not in discussions with either party to change the respective roles of the Department, ICANN or VeriSign regarding the management of the authoritative root zone file, nor do we have any plans to undertake such discussions. Consistent with public statements made by the United States government starting in 2000 and reinforced by the 2005 U.S. Principles on the Internet's Domain Name and Addressing System, the Department, while open to operational efficiency measures that address governments' legitimate public policy and sovereignty concerns with respect to the management of their ccTLD, has no plans to transition management of the authoritative root zone file to ICANN as suggested in the PSC documents". We may not like ICANN's performance on all counts, but we would like it to be our ICANN.. Ian Peter Ian Peter and Associates Pty Ltd PO Box 10670 Adelaide St Brisbane 4000 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance