[governance] Comments on Rio - Suggestions for Delhi - main

[Parminder]

McTim

Though you have advised against our carrying on this discussion, there is
something I just must comment on

> 1) Internet admin bodies are squarely within the realm of CS,

No way, forget it. No body that exercises power in realms that directly
affect other people (and a considerable number of them, all internet users)
can be considered CS. Even by the definition you picked (at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Society#Definition )it wont pass. Tell me
one category in this definition where any body exercises direct and explicit
(and not merely implicitly) power on any group/ community outside the body.
Please do not misuse the term CS in this manner.

I can still understand someone arguing that one can be CS and still be on
these bodies, but to say these bodies are a part of the CS is just the
limit. 

Parminder 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: McTim [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 3:17 PM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Suresh Ramasubramanian
> Subject: Re: [governance] Comments on Rio - Suggestions for Delhi - main
> 
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:14 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
> <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
> > Parminder wrote:
> >
> >  > enhanced cooperation (EC). Not only know, it is the right and the
> >  responsibility
> >  > of THE global Internet public policy forum ie IGF to discuss various
> >
> >  * EC is very important - and there is extensive scope within the
> existing
> >  mechanism for this.
> 
> Spot on! I think the recent discussion about alleged over
> representativeness of certain groups in the MAG shows how willing to
> do EC they are!
> 
> If we can't see this forest (EC) for the trees (whois on the MAG),
> well, we are back to shooting ourselves in the foot!
> 
> Let me restate my original points in the previous thread as they relate to
> EC:
> 
> 1) Internet admin bodies are squarely within the realm of CS, and are
> actively involved in doing EC by, inter alia, participating in the IGF
> and it's MAG.
> 
> 2) Asking for the removal of a 4th stakeholder group, made up of CS
> folk only reduces the total number of CS in the MAG.  I suggest this
> is not a beneficial outcome for IGC and CS as a whole.
> 
> 3) setting up a quota system for a group of observers or advisor's
> (after denying them full SH status) :
> 
>      3a) means reducing the number of CS participants in the MAG. I
> suggest this is not a beneficial outcome for IGC and CS as a whole.
> 
>      3b) reduces the opportunities for EC. I suggest this is not a
> beneficial outcome for IGC and CS as a whole.
> 
>      3c) means that if we want quotas for one group, we would have to
> ask for quotas on govts, and biz as well. I suggest this is not a
> beneficial outcome for IGC and CS as a whole, see BD's point on this
> yesterday.
> 
> >
> >  * Trying to gain even soft oversight functions over ICANN is a
> nonstarter
> >  and doesn't have much consensus here
> 
> FULL ACK
> 
> >
> >
> >  > Weren't development and capacity building cross-cutting themes for
> both
> >  > Athens, and Rio. I can understand if oyu do not remember, because
> that
> >
> >  They were, and rightly so. I find it amazing that CS groups that
> already do
> >  such a lot of this tend to play down its importance.
> 
> violent agreement
> 
> --
> Cheers,
> 
> McTim
> $ whois -h whois.afrinic.net mctim
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