[governance] Re: Russia plans to create independent web / internet

[Dan Krimm]

I think what Milton meant with regard to national monopolies on coercion
was simply in reference to legal jurisdiction, not to styles of enforcement
behavior.

The U.S. government has a monopoly on creating, adjudicating and enforcing
laws in the U.S.  Law enforcement is coercive, whatever way one looks at
it.  Even if one is just talking about a parking ticket, it is the coercive
force of municipal police (which is granted by the particular state, which
is carved out from federal power in the constitution) that causes the
violator to pay the fine or go to jail.

Coercion need not be Draconian or even "unfair" to be coercive (when it is
"fair" it is intended to coerce criminals and civil violators).  But it
does point to an authority to force citizens to "behave" in whatever way
that manifests itself.

All states have coercive power over all of their own citizens, exercised by
their various law enforcement organizations; in some sense that is what
they are *there* for in the first place.  How they use that power differs
according to governmental structures and cultural norms, but they all have
(or delegate on a discretionary and recallable basis) ultimate coercive
power (or else the state is in political crisis).

The rule of law means absolutely nothing in a political sense without a
supreme coercive authority to enforce it.

Dan



At 2:03 PM -0400 10/14/07, Avri Doria wrote:
>hi,
>
>i dislike the notion of nation states as much as anyone (as you
>probably already know), but the world is organised that way and a lot
>of people seem to favor that form of organisation.  your claim that
>certain states are coercive is certainly true, though i am not sure
>we would necessarily come up with the same list of 'bad guys.'  there
>are, after all, many different forms of coercion.
>
>my point is that coersive states aside i have  a firm belief that any
>network anyone builds will eventually be folded into, or at least
>gated to, the Internet.  bringing together the diverse networks of,
>now, diverse people is what the Internet is about in my opinion  and
>I don't think anyone can stop that for very long.  no matter what
>they do.  and i also believe that the more network infrastructure is
>rolled out, the better.  hey, i even think corporate networks serve a
>purpose in the growth of the Internet beyond the motive for 'demon
>profit' despite the fact that they create so many firewalls and
>walled gardens an help others do the same.
>
>a.
>
>
>On 13 okt 2007, at 23.14, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
>>>
>>> perhaps i have my naive glasses on again, but i wonder what the real
>>> so what of all this is.
>>
>> The real "so what" is the attempt to realign communication patterns
>> with nation-state institutions. Nation-states, to invoke the
>> sociologist Max Weber, are territorial monopolies on the use of
>> coercive force. This linkage is something we started to break out
>> of to some extent with the de-monopolization of telecommunications,
>> the global connectivity of the Internet and the rise of a
>> transnational civil society.
>>
>> To view a network bounded by something as massive, centralized and
>> coercive as the Chinese state or the Russian state as "just another
>> private network" does strike me as naïve in the extreme.
>> Particularly when both political entities attempt to integrate
>> political, military, economic, technical and _linguistic_
>> considerations.
>>
>> Private networks are fine by me. We are not talking about private
>> networks. We are talking about national networks (atavistic
>> spectres from hell...)
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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