[governance] For you as an Internet user, what is a "Critical Internet resource"?

[McTim]

On 10/5/07, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: McTim [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com]
>
> >Sorry, Milton, I was just messin with ya,
>
> McTim, it's so amusing when you try to do this. You always fail.

not according to the feedback I get off-list ;-)

>
> >the
> >"global routing table" is merely a phrase used
> >in routing discussions. There really is no
> >such animal.  No one CAN have policy authority over
> >something that exists in peoples heads as an abstract concept.
>
> I'm afraid you are quite wrong. Almost everything that humans have
> "policy authority" over is represented by an abstract concept: the
> nation, property, the DNS root, you name it.

The difference is those things are represented by tangible things,
land, a car, a file respectively.  The GRT is not tangible (although
parts of it are, in the same way the root zone is.

>
> If people responsible for running networks use a phrase like "global
> routing table(s)" to describe something (and they do) there's a very
> good chance that the phrase stands for something meaningful, and that
> there is utility in describing it as such.
>

It's quite useful, that doesn't mean it is extant. Unicorns and
Dragons spring to mind.
I can't imagine a policy authority for those ;-)

> Take for example the phrase "the electromagnetic spectrum." That is an
> abstract human concept. There is no "spectrum" to be found in nature; it
> does not really "exist" in the sense that a chair exists. It is a schema
> humans use to classify electromagnetic energy so that they can manage
> and use it better. But try to coordinate radio frequency use without
> that concept. You can bet that it matters a lot how we decide to carve
> up the spectrum; how we define it, how policies are applied to it.
> Hundreds of billions of dollars at stake.
>

I think we agree that the map is not the territory.  There are partial
"maps" of what we call the GRT, but IIUC, (and as Avri suggests in her
2nd post today) there isn't A map of it.  Nor do we want to create a
single cartographer.


> >> Currently, Tier one ISPs make those decisions in an autonomous,
> >> self-regulatory manner.
> >
> >See above, whoever told you that one was pulling your leg m8.
>
> No, sorry, you're incorrect. When you say:
>
> >These folk determine their own routing policies
> >(who they peer with, what routes they "listen to", etc).


It's entirely correct, ask the folk who run the routers for Sysracuse
Univ. who is in charge of your routing policy.

>
> That sounds to me very much like "ISPs make those decisions in an
> autonomous, self-regulatory manner."  Maybe you don't understand that
> language, but from a regulatory/institutional standpoint that's what is
> going on.


A) It's not just ISPs (look at your own institution)

B) it's not just Tier 1s

C) Since I have been arguing for autonomous self regulation on this
list since I joined, I think I understand the terminology

>
> Bottom line, McTim: want to have an honest dialogue, in which both of us
> might learn something from the other? Or not? When are you going to stop
> pretending that no one on this list knows anything about the technical
> infrastructure but you?

I have never pretended that.  There are lots of folk on this list who
are far more knowledgeable than I.  IN fact, I have learned much of
what I know about routing from some of them.

If by "honest dialogue, you mean "MM gets to bully the list" a la last
para of http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/arc/governance/2007-09/msg00411.html,
then no, but if you mean sharing experiences, presenting opinions and
avoiding argumentum ad hominem, then yes.

Didn't we have this discussion ~2 years ago?

-- 
Cheers,

McTim
$ whois -h whois.afrinic.net mctim
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