[governance] Reinstate the Vote

Thu Nov 22 13:07:49 EST 2007

Just to be clear. 

If you review this list's history, every time discussions appear to be going
somewhere useful, someone throws out a personal insult and almost instantly
it descends into name-calling and nonsense.

Perhaps everyone except me thinks this is a terrific way to interact. I
think it's what makes me stop reading comments for another week. 

So, if there is a personal insult lobbed at me, even if it comes amid a
bunch of other useful comments - which this email from Danny did, and which
Milton's email yesterday did - then I won't respond.

If people would prefer that I not recognise that a personal attack has been
thrown into discussions as if it was somehow relevant or useful, then I
won't respond with "ad hominem attack" in future but will simply not
respond. 

My intention in responding at all is to point out that the message contained
useful comments or ideas but that I won't be responding to them - at least
not while irrelevant abuse is tagged on.

I don't think that's too unreasonable. 

You are of course all free to continue to be rude to one another, and about
me, as much as you like. 

Kieren

-----Original Message-----
From: Danny Younger [mailto:dannyyounger at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 9:45 AM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Kieren McCarthy
Subject: RE: [governance] Reinstate the Vote

Kieren,

If you regard this as an ad hominen attack, then
perhaps a brief vacation to settle your nerves might
be in order.

regards,
Danny

--- Kieren McCarthy <kierenmccarthy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ad hominem attack.
> 
> 
> 
> Kieren
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Danny Younger [mailto:dannyyounger at yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:07 PM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Kieren McCarthy
> Subject: RE: [governance] Reinstate the Vote
> 
> Kieren,
> 
> You know, you really should make an effort to read
> the
> public comments submitted once in a while...
> 
> I earlier proposed a "solution" within the public
> comment submitted at this URL:  
>
http://forum.icann.org/lists/naralo-comments/msg00006.html
> 
> Here's the gist of it:
> 
> A readily-implemented, low-cost solution to seat
> at-large directors on the ICANN board.
> 
> The solution:
> 
> Those directors that are not currently elected by
> ICANN's Supporting Organizations come to the board
> by
> way of ICANN's "Nominating Committee", a body
> populated exclusively by special-interest
> representatives.
> 
> This committee must be eliminated and must be
> replaced
> by a new committee populated exclusively by
> public-interest representatives.  These
> representatives will be drawn from the pool of
> candidates that previously stood for at-large
> election.  These voices of the public will then,
> through the same set of processes used by the
> current
> Nominating Committee, select the slate of at-large
> directors that will take their seats on the ICANN
> board (and ICANN will thereby finally come to honor
> the principle of balanced representation).
> 
> By the way, I see nothing wrong with the notion of
> the
> Chairman asking "So how do we fix this?".  Prior
> Boards chose to put together blue-ribbon panels to
> study an issue (like Carl Bildt's ALSC that arrived
> at
> a consensus-based recommendation to have the
> at-large
> seated on one third of the Board).  Unfortunately,
> we
> have been blessed with boards whose wisdom is
> superior
> to that of the commmunity and who feel quite
> comfortable rejecting consensus-based
> determinations.
> 
> Who knows... perhaps one day you might be heralded
> as
> the ICANN Manager of Public Representation instead
> of
> as a functionary that is charged with pushing the
> prospect of feeble "participation" onto those that
> instead are screaming for accountability via true
> multistakeholder representation.  Time will tell.
> 
> best wishes,
> and again thanks for your perspective.
> 
> 
> --- Kieren McCarthy <kierenmccarthy at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > I understand where you're coming from Danny. But
> you
> > asked me what the best
> > method was and that's the answer.
> > 
> > What you are assuming, wrongly in my view, is that
> > participation within
> > those structures won't work. I don't agree. I
> think
> > it will work. Moreover
> > what I am saying is that *unless* people
> participate
> > in those structures,
> > there won't be change along the lines you
> suggested.
> > 
> > If you have other suggestions that could
> practically
> > work please throw them
> > in. 
> > 
> > The problem with your suggestion of writing
> letters
> > to the chairman is that
> > the chairman will then ask: "So how do we fix
> this?"
> > and we end up in the
> > exact same place that we are now.
> > 
> > Now if you could present a clear case as to why
> such
> > a change would be in
> > ICANN's overall interests AND provide a number of
> > suggested routes for
> > getting there, then I think you'd find he would
> > start looking at it
> > seriously. If that whole case was to come from
> > within the ICANN structure,
> > it would add further weight.
> > 
> > But to send a letter saying "this isn't right" and
> > offering no solution is
> > not going to achieve much.
> > 
> > Just my two cents.
> > 
> > I should also say that if people do participate in
> > ICANN's processes they
> > not only benefit from engagement with others but
> > also gain the advantages
> > that come with participation, one of which is that
> I
> > would consider it my
> > duty to make sure that that participation was
> given
> > the appropriate
> > consideration.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Kieren
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> 
>
____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the
> list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> 

____________________________________________________________________________
________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance