[governance] IGP Alert:

[Suresh]

Bertrand de La Chapelle wrote:

    What Vittorio raises below is exactly what Google is facing in Brazil (of
    all places) with its Orkut social platform abused by some members for
    illegal postings (child porn and alia).

Again argues for having mature abuse handling processes in place.  And the dual
(well, universal) criminality of child porn makes this a case where Google
clearly screwed up - their abuse handling processes were certainly not up to
scratch.

Contrast that with the recent Yahoo / Shih Tao case.  And this techcrunch
article that points out that the subpoena for Shih Tao's article was issued to
Yahoo China, which is only 40% owned by Yahoo (the rest by Beijing based
alibaba.com), and which is incorporated in China, staffed by Chinese citizens
and subject to Chinese laws.

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/08/yahoo-in-china-an-unfair-attack/

That certainly didnt stop the senate subcommittee from going after Yahoo VERY
hard - Jerry Yang had to apologize in public to Shih Tao's mother, and that,
for sure, gives her some excellent ammunition in whatever lawsuit she has
against Yahoo for this.

The article also states:

<quote>San Mateo Democrat Chairman Tom Lantos called Yahoo moral pygmies, and
Rep. Chris Smith, R-N.J., compared Yahoo’s cooperation with the Chinese
government to companies that cooperated with Nazi Germany during World War
II.</quote>

The comments to the article range from heated criticism to much more nuanced
opinions.  Personally speaking, there are some Interesting points to note -

Tom Lantos, especially, is the only holocaust survivor, a jew who survived Nazi
Germany, to currently sit on the US senate.  So any comparison he makes or
agrees with that reference Nazi Germany need not necessarily be what usenet
would call a Godwin argument.

And whatever gets blogged, there is a lot of bipartisan support right now to
support bills that would enable US Internet companies to cooperate with foreign
law enforcement ..

This kind of bipartisan support and anger can lead to sweeping legislative
curbs in short order.  Presidential veto may not work either - the recent
override of Bush’s veto - by an overwhelming majority across party lines - on
the water bill, and the passing of a previous bill that declared Turkey’s
repression of Armenians in around 1910 genocide (to the fury of Turkey, which
has been a NATO member for quite some time ..)

I dont remember the specific bill back from 2006 but I believe it proposed that
such cross border cooperation would be through the US Department of Justice,
and applying the internationally recognized concept of dual criminality which
means that the action against which the warrant or subpoena has been issued
should be regarded as criminal in both countries - the country issuing the
warrant, and the country which receives the warrant.

What does this mean for ISPs who will want to do business in the USA as well as
In China, if this trend becomes something more pronounced, as it well may?

In other words, if China wants to go after a blogger calling for free
elections, or if (say) Thailand pursue Orkut for someone posting insulting
photos of the Thai king, Indians want to go after someone who calls Shivaji (a
respected historical king in India + the mascot of a particular rightwing
political party that takes "insults" to him as an excuse to start riots) a
coward, it won’t work.

Any warrant that is produced and has to go the crossborder route will run
headfirst into the first amendment, that protects free speech except under some
narrowly defined exceptions (speech that causes or may cause immediate harm ..
the so-called “shouting fire in a crowded theater” test).  

Even now, the US, a signatory to the Council of Europe convention on
cybercrime, is NOT a signatory to the additional protocol on racial hatred /
xenophobia through computer systems -
http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/Html/189.htm  (used to pursue,
for example, deniers of the holocaust, white supremacists etc)

On the whole, not a bad thing at all. Though it would make China, Thailand,
Saudi Arabia etc not very happy campers.

--srs
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