[governance] individuals

Tue Apr 25 01:20:14 EDT 2006

Hi all

I agree with Danny, but let's not also forget the
digital divide that exists for the poor in the
developed world in cities and remote areas including
indigenous peoples, or for those with disabilities.

cheers
David
--- Danny Butt <db at dannybutt.net> wrote:

> 
> 
> On 24/04/2006, at 7:40 PM, Vittorio Bertola wrote:
> > Things could be different if you were to build a
> global,
> > complex representative structure, but as long as
> this caucus is  
> > meant to
> > be the "think-tank" of that handful of active
> people in the field, all
> > of us should be peers; and I think that we should
> not forget that the
> > Internet, even in the user rights advocacy field,
> has been up to now
> > very often, if not mostly, shaped by lonely active
> individuals.
> 
> 
> So, for example, the 100million-plus Internet users
> in China aren't  
> here because... they're not active? Or that they're
> not interested in  
> the rights of users? Or civil society doesn't exist
> there? Or there  
> are too many people for them to be lonely? Or
> they're not  
> individuals?...
> 
> I'll be blunt with my opinion: if the IGC doesn't
> scale in capacity  
> and diversity it won't be taken seriously. I think
> that assessment is  
> in keeping with the annoyance expressed at the
> process of  
> coordinating our IGF theme proposals. The "working
> methods" in place  
> have not scaled, I don't see how they can be taken
> as being  
> successful or not in need of significant change.
> Well, I can see that  
> if the vision of civil society input into internet
> governance is  
> 30-40 people setting the agenda then things are
> fine. But I would  
> cast people's mind back to the comments by the
> Indian delegation at  
> the presentation of the WGIG report where the
> question of CS  
> legitimacy and representativeness has already been
> raised.
> 
>  From my point of view those criticisms will best be
> addressed by a  
> strategy of fostering openness and participation -
> especially by NGOs  
> working in the field. After all, NGOs are staffed
> and run by  
> individuals who have gathered resources to further
> particular issues.  
> In the political process they become markers of the
> ongoing relevance  
> of particular issues (e.g. it's not from an
> individual who'll change  
> their mind next week), or in some cases a proxy for
> a group of people  
> interested in those issues.
> 
> You can't write policy based on individuals. Well
> you can, when  
> you're a small group of engineers and enthusiasts
> setting up a  
> network. But to bring up the role of the individual
> in global policy  
> participation (I mean process, not the idea of the
> individual in  
> human rights) is pure ideology when so many of them
> are not here. We  
> are talking about decisions that affect hundreds of
> millions of  
> people! With a background in user experience
> testing, I've become  
> very used to the idea that it's hard to know what
> the user is  
> thinking without testing it. Because users behave
> surprisingly  
> differently to oneself. I don't trust myself - or
> anyone on this list  
> - to represent the rights of the individual user,
> whoever they are.  
> Thus, my previous point about effective mechanisms
> for participation  
> and accountability to our diverse constituency.
> "Over-organisation is  
> counterproductive", it's true, but that statement
> also a common  
> ideology among those who do well out of a
> laissez-faire setup and  
> would prefer to not have to negotiate with different
> views.
> 
> I couldn't care less about being an individual in
> this process. What  
> I care about are the issues: human rights,
> development, diversity,  
> etc. I'd be ecstatic if I didn't have to spend my
> time working on  
> them, if there were NGOs on board who could use
> their capacity to do  
> a better job than I do, if the IGC didn't need to
> exist because the  
> issues were always on the table. I don't spend my
> time here because I  
> want to be a part of 30-40 smart and active people:
> I am looking for  
> a productive platform where my contributions can
> make a difference -  
> and where other people working on them can make a
> difference. The  
> combination of individualism and wanting fewer seats
> at the table  
> seems to me to be the largest barrier to this being
> the kind of  
> platform I think CS should represent.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Danny
> 
> On 24/04/2006, at 7:43 PM, Wolfgang Kleinwächter
> wrote:
> >
> > Vittorio:
> >
> > I personally would be quite disturbed if the
> caucus took the road  
> > of the organizational membership, similarly to the
> HR Caucus (which  
> > however had some specific reasons for that, as
> pointed out before).  
> > I would recommend that caucus members do not wear
> hats while  
> > working here, and do not act as representatives of
> this or that  
> > NGO, but as individual human beings.  I think that
> we should not  
> > forget that the Internet, even in the user rights
> advocacy field,  
> > has been up to now very often, if not mostly,
> shaped by lonely  
> > active individuals. I was already concerned by the
> idea of  
> > organizational endorsements in our selection
> processes, as if names  
> > put forward by organizations were for that very
> reason more  
> > deserving of consideration. I would not be able to
> recognize myself  
> > in this caucus any more, if it became practically
> dominated by a  
> > few big NGOs.
> >
> >
> >
> > Wolfgang:
> >
> > I can only support Vittorio. Over-organization is
> counter- 
> > productive, as you can see from the four years of
> ICANNs ALAC .  
> > Vittorio, why you did not argue within ALAC when
> you chaired the  
> > body as you do now?
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > wolfgang
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Danny Butt
> > db at dannybutt.net | http://www.dannybutt.net
> > Suma Media Consulting | http://www.sumamedia.com
> > Private Bag MBE P145, Auckland, Aotearoa New
> Zealand
> > Ph: +64 21 456 379 | Fx: +64 21 291 0200
> >
> 
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