[governance] Civil society shut out of the drafting groups

[Lee McKnight]

But Robert,

We just agreed Brazil is not the story, the high-handed treatment of CS by the newbies - other governments - is.  

So go make some noise about that.

Lee

Prof. Lee W. McKnight
School of Information Studies
Syracuse University
+1-315-443-6891office
+1-315-278-4392 mobile

>>> Robert Guerra <rguerra at lists.privaterra.org> 09/27/05 2:04 PM >>>
I will leave discussions on and about Brazil and it's openness and  
inclusion to CS @ UN fora to NGOs who have dealt with them in other  
fora.

The same goes for other countries - it's better to get a better  
picture from those from the country in question.

My personal opinion is that i can't really say. I just don't have  
enough information on their voting record related to CS at UN  
meetings. Can someone help us out?



regards,

Robert

--
Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>
Managing Director, Privaterra <http://www.privaterra.org>





On 27-Sep-05, at 7:57 PM, Lee McKnight wrote:

> Robert,
>
> OK, if you/CS want or feel the need to play hardball,  and some  
> allies are encouraging you to do so, then call CNN yourself, or the  
> NYTimes. And the FT, Le Monde and Die Zeit.  There have to be some  
> reporters in the halls hungry for a story right? So far your  
> (occasional?) mis-treatment seems to be the main story, because of  
> what it suggests might be the fate of us all on a future more-UN- 
> influenced net.
>
> My point re Brazil is that at the moment of truth they realized a  
> Lula/worker's party/champion of the landless government would look  
> foolish if they helped dispossess civil society. So they backed  
> off. Of course they may claim some other reasons, but I don't think  
> they want to be the story you may help some journalist write.  For  
> China this is a chance to flex some muscle on the international  
> stage, and be a featured player in the story, so no surprise they  
> are making people notice their views.
>
> good luck!
>
> Lee
>
>
> Prof. Lee W. McKnight
> School of Information Studies
> Syracuse University
> +1-315-443-6891office
> +1-315-278-4392 mobile
>
>
>>>> Robert Guerra <rguerra at lists.privaterra.org> 09/27/05 1:35 PM >>>
>>>>
> Lee:
>
> two quick comments:
>
>
> 1. Civil society can stay in the room if the countries , all of them,
> in the drafting room agree that it's ok. if not, then the default is
> to go to the rules of procedure that state that CS has to leave after
> making a statement .
>
> 2. it seems that Brazil agreed with having CS in the room only after
> a specific directed question by the chair if it in fact was siding
> with china or not.
>
> The broad question right now is what to do - i see three possible
> options:
>
> 1. do nothing and accept the decision.
> 2. Have CS as a whole issue a statement - that is, if there is  
> agreement
> 3. If there is no overall consensus by CS - then individual NGOs are
> free, as they normally are, to issue a statement .
>
> Many govts are quite supportive of CS and are very upset at the
> development by china to push CS out, when in fact there is some
> flexibility. They are looking for CS to react in a strong fashion.
> Will we? let's see...
>
>
>
>
> regards,
>
> Robert
>
> --
> Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>
> Managing Director, Privaterra <http://www.privaterra.org>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27-Sep-05, at 5:48 PM, Lee McKnight wrote:
>
>
>> Vittorio,
>>
>> My tactical advice, now that civil society is a political football,
>> is play the game.
>>
>> If some governments/diplomats insist on silencing civil society,
>> and by extension also the business and technical community, nothing
>> happens to ICANN or IANA - not in this decade. So it's their choice
>> to run out of bounds, or not. Civil society can't stop them, but it
>> can protest the violation of the new rules of the multistakeholder
>> game.
>>
>> If instead the forces of realism and enlightenment - good for
>> Norway! - prevail, then you are there to try to help move the
>> process in a positive direction.
>>
>> So presumably the EU will now feel the need at the meeting tonight
>> to agree to throw some muscle and tilt the US way on this issue (of
>> civil society/biz participation); Brazil seems to have realized the
>> strategic error of lining up too closely with China and Iran on
>> this issue.
>>
>> So in a way this whole tiff can be beneficial in reaching a
>> compromise outcome developing and industrialized countries can live
>> with.
>>
>> good luck,
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>> Prof. Lee W. McKnight
>> School of Information Studies
>> Syracuse University
>> +1-315-443-6891office
>> +1-315-278-4392 mobile
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> "Vittorio Bertola" <vb at bertola.eu.org> 09/27/05 10:09 AM >>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> Following up to my earlier message on the matter (report from  
>> drafting
>> group III)... today at 1:45pm, at the start of drafting group IV,
>> China
>> and Brazil, supported by Iran, took the floor and asked the Chair  
>> (now
>> Canada) whether further instructions had been received on civil
>> society
>> and private sector participation in the drafting groups, and in any
>> case
>> pointing out that according to phase I procedures and instructions
>> given
>> at the governmental bureau meeting, non-gov persons should have
>> been sent
>> out of the room after making an initial statement, and that it was
>> highly
>> inappropriate for the Chair not to have managed to get proper
>> instructions
>> from Amb. Khan to this extent.
>>
>> The Chair repeatedly proposed to keep the compromise reached in the
>> morning, to let non-gov persons assist silently and respond if
>> asked. US,
>> UK/EU and Australia spoke in favour of keeping this procedure, and in
>> general noted that non-gov participation is highly beneficial, and no
>> actual conclusion had been reached, not even at the bureau.
>>
>> In the end, the Chair asked Brazil and China how serious they were;
>> Brazil
>> said that it could live with the Chair's compromise; China however
>> insisted. Thus, the Chair asked the people from civil society and
>> private
>> sector to give a brief statement and then leave. Ralf courteously
>> protested the decision before giving the statement and leaving.
>>
>> I can say that the Italian delegation is absolutely unhappy with the
>> Chair's decision, and that the issue will likely brought up at the EU
>> Coordination meeting tonight at 6pm. In the meantime, civil society
>> should
>> decide whether and how to react.
>> -- 
>> vb.               [Vittorio Bertola - v.bertola [a] bertola.eu.org]
>> <------
>> http://bertola.eu.org/  <- Vecchio sito, nuovo toblòg...
>>
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