[governance] Countries and ccTLDs

Thu Dec 15 08:19:49 EST 2005

Bertrand 

It is already worse than you suppose. At the ICANNStudienkreis we had a
presentation on dot CAT for Catalan speakers, not confined to Catalunya
and supported from Madrid. This clearly extends into South-West France!
http://www.puntcat.org/

I recently renewed my UK passport, valid till 2015. However, the
Scottish National Party claims there will be indepence by 2011. So in
addition to my potential need for another passport, there might have to
be a new ccTLD. 

I am sure Bavaria would like .BY and perhaps .BZ for Bretagne. Maybe .7
for the seventh arrondisement of Paris :-)

As with my earlier comment on economies, I tend towards pragmatism. I am
not sure there are principles here or maybe I just cannot see them.

Ewan

> 
> Dear all,
> 
> Nations, economies, countries, communities, ..... What is the
foundation for
> ccTLDs ? This is an important issue.
> 
> ccTLDs were distributed initially by Postel according to an ISO
standard if
> I am not mistaken. The result (see full list at :
> http://www.iana.org/cctld/cctld-whois.htm#f.) is that France, for
> instance, has several ccTLDs in addition to .fr, corresponding to various
> territories around the world, such as : .gf (french guyana), .pf
> (polynesia), .tf (southern territories), .yt (Mayotte), .nc (New
Caledonia),
> .re (Reunion island), .wf (Wallis and Futuna) or .pm (St Pierre and
> Miquelon). I may forget some ...
> 
> Interrestingly enough, the corresponding sponsoring organizations are
> diverse, some ccTLDs being under the responsibility of AFNIC (in charge of
> the .fr), some being different and based in the respective territories.
> 
> So, clearly, ccTLDs are not limited to countries. Territories, communities
> are already part of the picture.
> 
> I might also mention as examples of interesting test cases related to past
> or present conflicts or disputes : .fk (for the Falklands), .gi (for
> Gibraltar), .eh (for Western Sahara) or .ps for the palestinian
> territories. Clearly, the list of ccTLDs is not commensurate to the UN
> membership.
> 
> I wonder how the Tunis rule of one government not intervening in the
> management of another's ccTLD will apply to some of them.
> 
> As the web develops, the question of the creation of new TLDs is
important,
> not only for the gTLDs such as .xxx, but also, for territories-less
nations
> (cf. Jovan's exploration of a .rom) and ultimately, any community that
want
> its existence recognized online.
> 
> We also know the debate on the creation of .ct (for Catalunyia) and the
> strong opposition of the spanish government. I do not imagine the
debate in
> France about the creation of a domain name for Corsica !.
> 
> This issue is clearly one where :
> - general rules must be established at the global level
> - not under the sole ultimate responsibility of national governments,
> although they naturally should be fully involved in the discussions
> - one single government (ie the US) cannot be tasked with the ultimate
veto
> responsibility of entering the new domain in the root or not.
> 
> Parminder's remark, as usual, is putting the finger on a type of issue
that
> is not sufficiently addressed today but could become sensitive and
puts the
> question of public policy guidelines on the creation of new TLDs in an
> interesting light.
> 
> Without delving deeper in that issue at that stage, let me just put
forward
> two principles that should be kept in mind when these issues are going
to be
> addressed :
> - the need to consider all levels of public interests : national public
> interests, but also global public interests, and ultimately, the
> public/common  interest of numerous communities that are not territorially
> based,
> - the need to reach an optimum balance in the management of what is,
> ultimately, an "artificial scarcity" , unlike the natural scarcity of most
> physical goods.
> 
> There will be a fine line between the establishing a potential right
of any
> community to create and manage a TLD related to its domain of interest
> (favoring all types of diversities and in line with the limitless
> possibilities of the domain name addressing) and the need to keep the
system
> manageable, understandable and avoid cybersqatting or obligation for all
> actors with strong brands to buy  preventively any extension of TLDs to
> prevent inappropriate use.
> 
> This does not have to get into the CS statement now. But we must keep
it in
> mind and maybe make sure this is put in an appropriate way on the
agenda of
> future international discussions.
> 
> My two cents.
> 
> Best
> 
> Bertrand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/15/05, Parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
> >
> > Izumi,
> >
> > I am sorry; I had gone more into a discussion on this than holding a
veto
> > against including 'economies'. Pl use that word along with (and after)
> > countries.
> >
> > As for the contention that as a parallel movement to the rise of
> > neo-liberalism, the discipline of economics is 'colonizing other social
> > sciences' there is some established scholarship.
> >
> > Parminder
> >
> > ________________________________________________
> > Parminder Jeet Singh
> > IT for Change
> > Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities
> > 91-80-26654134
> > www.ITforChange.net
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Izumi AIZU [mailto:aizu at anr.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 7:20 AM
> > To: Parminder; 'Ewan SUTHERLAND'; 'Adam Peake';
governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > Subject: Re: [governance] Fwd: [WSIS-CT] WSIS CS statement: almostfinal
> > version4.1
> >
> > Parminder,
> >
> > As some have already pointed out, "economies" have been used mostly in
> > Asia Pacific region to avoid endless political or ideological debate
about
> > jurisdiction over certain areas, such as Taiwan, Hong Kong etc. It is
> > used both by governments such as APEC as well as by some Internet
> > community groups such as APNG, AP CERT etc, as well as ICANN.
> >
> > Does your objection mean to only use "country"? Then how do you
> > reconcile this problem?
> >
> > In these precedences, it is not meant to put ascendancy of the
'economic'
> > over the
> > social, cultural and political and well recognized as such. I have not
> > heard
> > that kind of interpretation that much.
> >
> > So I beg you to accept "economies" as well. I guess it is not such "big
> > deal" for us ;-)
> >
> >
> > izumi
> >
> > At 23:04 05/12/14 +0530, Parminder wrote:
> > >Ewan
> > >
> > >Yes I am conscious of the in-exactness of the 'country' term in
covering
> > >large geographic social aggregations we mean to cover in our
> > >description.....
> > >
> > >However my objection to the term 'economies' is that it has ideological
> > >baggage - and is keeping with the ascendancy of the 'economic' over the
> > >social, cultural and political.
> > >
> > >Parminder
> > >________________________________________________
> > >Parminder Jeet Singh
> > >IT for Change
> > >Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities
> > >91-80-26654134
> > >www.ITforChange.net
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Ewan SUTHERLAND [mailto:ewan at intug.net]
> > >Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:47 PM
> > >To: Parminder; 'Adam Peake'; governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > >Subject: Re: [governance] Fwd: [WSIS-CT] WSIS CS statement: almost
final
> > >version4.1
> > >
> > >Parminder
> > >
> > >"economies" is the preferred term within APEC to avoid tricky questions
> > >about the status of various geopolitical entities. In the EU the
term is
> > >"member state" (25) and accession state. In the UK the term is
"nation",
> > >there being four (England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales).
> > >
> > >The terminology is very inexact, intentionally so, and changes
> > frequently.
> > >
> > >Ewan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 'Economies' is a one-sided description of the national societies. I
> > don't
> > > > see what's wrong with 'countries'. With all its limitations this
> > political
> > > > term (mostly with a socio-cultural basis) is better then the
economic
> > term
> > > > -'economies'.
> > > >
> > > > Parminder
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________________________
> > > > Parminder Jeet Singh
> > > > IT for Change
> > > > Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities
> > > > 91-80-26654134
> > > > www.ITforChange.net
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: governance-bounces at lists.cpsr.org
> > > > [mailto:governance-bounces at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Adam Peake
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 7:18 PM
> > > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > > Subject: [governance] Fwd: [WSIS-CT] WSIS CS statement: almost final
> > > > version4.1
> > > >
> > > > Please see attached, seems to be a very near final version of the
> > > > civil society statement.
> > > >
> > > > I hope someone who has been following discussions on the list will
> > > > take a look and see if view are reflected.  Sorry, I've not been
> > > > tracking this discussion closely.
> > > >
> > > > But. The paragraph about ccTLDs should mention distinct economies,
> > > > not just countries. Shame there's no mention of paragraphs 69-71.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Adam
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >Delivered-To: ajp at glocom.ac.jp
> > > > >Delivered-To: ct at mailman.greennet.org.uk
> > > > >From: Ralf Bendrath <bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de>
> > > > >Reply-To: bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de, cs-dec at wsis-cs.org
> > > > >X-Accept-Language: de,en
> > > > >To: WSIS CT-Drafting <ct-drafting at wsis-cs.org>,
> > > > >     WSIS-CT <ct at wsis-cs.org>
> > > > >Subject: [WSIS-CT] WSIS CS statement: almost final version 4.1
> > > > >Sender: ct-admin at wsis-cs.org
> > > > >X-BeenThere: ct at wsis-cs.org
> > > > >List-Help: <mailto:ct-request at wsis-cs.org?subject=help>
> > > > >List-Post: <mailto:ct at wsis-cs.org>
> > > > >List-Subscribe:
<http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/ct>,
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> > > > >List-Unsubscribe:
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> > >,
> > > > >     <mailto:ct-request at wsis-cs.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >List-Archive: <http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/public/ct/>
> > > > >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:50:28 +0100
> > > > >X-Virus-Status: No
> > > > >X-Virus-Checker-Version: clamassassin 1.2.2 with clamdscan / ClamAV
> > > > >0.87.1/1179/Sat Nov 19 02:33:40 2005
> > > > >
> > > > >Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > >attached find a new version 4.1, which incorporates the input from
> > > > >the French and Spanish speaking folks. I had to do some
> > > > >copy-editing, of course, and some proposals were moved to different
> > > > >chapters where I felt they fit better.
> > > > >
> > > > >As there were a number of changes, especially from the Finance
> > > > >Caucus, I have attached a "track changes" version.
> > > > >
> > > > >--> Please have a quick look at the changes from version 4.0 to
this
> > > > >one and let us know at <cs-dec at wsis-cs.org> if there are any
> > > > >problems. We can only accept language proposals that fit, no pure
> > > > >blaiming and complaining.
> > > > >
> > > > >We are still waiting for the outcome of discussions on two
> > > > >paragraphs (noted in the text), where different groups have some
> > > > >difficulties to come up with consensus text. I have myself
developed
> > > > >compromise proposals for each, but am not yet sure they will be
> > > > >accepted.
> > > > >
> > > > >We hope to have the final version ready by tomorrow evening, so we
> > > > >can release it on Thursday.
> > > > >
> > > > >--> Can someone start drafting a short press release? I can't do
> > > > >this on top of facilitating the drafting, and we have so many
> > > > >professional journalists here...
> > > > >
> > > > >Best, Ralf
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > governance mailing list
> > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > > https://ssl.cpsr.org/mailman/listinfo/governance
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Ewan SUTHERLAND, Executive Director, INTUG
> > >http://intug.net/ewan.html
> > >skype://sutherla
> > >+44 141 416 06 66
> > >+32 486 52 22 21
> > >http://3wan.net
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >governance mailing list
> > >governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > >https://ssl.cpsr.org/mailman/listinfo/governance
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > governance mailing list
> > governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > https://ssl.cpsr.org/mailman/listinfo/governance
> >
> 
> 

-- 
Ewan SUTHERLAND, Executive Director, INTUG
http://intug.net/ewan.html
skype://sutherla
+44 141 416 06 66
+32 486 52 22 21
http://3wan.net
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