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Subject: [bestbits] Financial reporting and transparency at APNIC Talk
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Dear all,
Please find below an account of a conversation over at the APNIC Talk
mailing list regarding financial and activity transparency and reporting.
1. The conversation began with Dave Mead on Saturday (April 26, 2014)
addressing Paul Wilson on the APNIC Talk mailing list. Mead referred to
Wilson’s talk at the A-Pac Internet Leadership Programme, where Wilson
allegedly stated: “Members pay fees to APNIC to support the organisation
and the services and they don't give APNIC a blessing to spend that
money in unlimited fashion on Internet development” [1]. Mead alleged
that Wilson and other senior staff at APNIC utilize members’ fees/funds
for business class travel, and denounced this practice as not befitting
a not-for-profit Internet development organization.
2. Hanif H. Mohammed of Pakistan supported Mead, and added that APNIC
was conducting a training programme on cyber-security, etc. for law
enforcement agencies (“LEAs”), utilizing APNIC funds. As LEAs allocate
funds of their own for training purposes, Mohammed stated that APNIC
should not be spending on their behalf.
3. Skeeve Stevens intervenes and supports APNIC spending, by stating
that APNIC staff do very important work and need to be alert and awake
at meetings.
4. Masato Yamanishi (APNIC Policy SIG co-chair) reframes the debate:
“The real question is whether there were enough outcomes compared to
resources spent including costs and man-months”. This gets more support
from members, and Dean Pemberton first makes a call for transparency and
reporting: “To that end I would support an increased level of financial
and activity reporting along the lines Yamanishi-san has suggested. We
do see this increased reporting in RIRs and other multistakeholder
organisations and they are to be commended for this. This will allow the
membership to determine if outputs such as those reported by APNIC at
ICANN49 are balanced with the expenditure required to produce them”.
Others support this.
5. Tony Smith of APNIC responds by clarifying APNIC’s scope of
operations and defending the LEA Training [email attached].
6. Skeeve Stevens takes a side-dig at B.C. Jain of India, who supported
reduced APNIC fees: “With the size of your population, the growth rate
of your industry, I really don't see why you have a problem with
finances. The NIR of India really should be making enough revenue to pay
for itself.”
7. Skeeve Stevens seeks financial reporting from all NIRs within APNIC
[email attached].
There was also a side-conversation on the same thread regarding APNIC’s
effective representation of Asia and countries in the region:
1. A short series of standoffs between Mohammed and Skeeve Stevens (who
voices support for APNIC, its activities and its staff) shows that there
is confusion in some minds as to whom the APNIC-EC represents. Mohammed
refers, for instance to APNIC offices located in Australia, and
questions whether it really represents Asian interests. There are
multiple responses to this: Rajesh Chharia asks why APNIC does not have
a regional office in South Asia, and invites “Paul and Akinori” to
respond. Aftab A. Siddiqui endorses this, referring to the newly opened
Dubai office of RIPE-NCC. Others contribute to this as well, noting that
Asia has no RIR.
2. In response to all these, Skeeve Stevens provides a long
justificatory email, and accuses speakers of “sit[ting] far away, not
attend[ing] conferences, not be[ing] involved and criticis[ing] any
process and organization” [email attached]. Stevens emphasizes that
regional interests take priority and states that those with national
interests “will never be taken seriously”.
3. Skeeve Stephens responds by inviting others to look at APNIC-EC [2]
and staff composition [3] and states that they effectively represent
Asian economies.
4. Masato Yamanishi proposes that APNIC Secretariat should seek members’
approval and priority “about major activities with expected human
resources, CAPEX, and OPEX”. He refers to the ARIN and the RIPE-NCC
Activity Plan and Budget 2014 [4], where such discussion is held.
5. Dave Mead again makes an intervention asking questions about APNIC’s
involvement and support in setting up NIRs.
___
[1] The audio may be found linked from the APNIC event wrap-up here:
http://www.apnic.net/publications/news/2014/icann-49-event-wrapup.
[2] APNIC-EC composition:
http://www.apnic.net/about-APNIC/organization/structure/apnic-executive-council/ec-members.
[3] APNIC staff composition: http://www.apnic.net/about-APNIC/team.
[4] RIPE-NCC Budget Plan: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-598.
I hope this is useful.
Best,
Geetha.
--
Geetha Hariharan
Programme Officer
Centre for Internet and Society
W: http://cis-india.org | T: +91 8860 360717
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From: Skeeve Stevens <skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 00:07:35 +1000
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To: "apnic-talk at lists.apnic.net" <apnic-talk at lists.apnic.net>
Subject: [apnic-talk] Question regarding Financial Reporting by NIR's
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All,
There has been a lot of calls for more transparency of APNIC, the work they
undertake and their financial reporting.
I'd like to take this a step further and request that all NIR's produce
financial reports which are then made available to the wider APNIC
community - except where that NIR is a government entity.
We are hearing so many calls by people for transparent reporting, fee
reductions, etc... that I think it only fair that APNIC and the community
be able to appropriately consider the financial status of all applicable
NIR entities.
I think this is only fair, as NIR's enjoy a special status within APNIC,
and it would be reasonable for the wider community to be able to understand
and evaluate the financial position of the NIR's.
If there are no such rules for this to occur, then I would seriously
consider a policy proposal that compels NIR's to report to APNIC on their
financial status and that information be available to members of APNIC.
The NIR's are a member themselves of APNIC under special arrangement, and
as a member of APNIC, I would like to understand more about these special
arrangements and how much an NIR benefits (or not) from this special
arrangement.
Adam... is this request something that should be handled by the EC
directly, or via the Policy SIG process?
...Skeeve
*Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com ; www.eintellegonetworks.com
Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
facebook.com/eintellegonetworks ; <http://twitter.com/networkceoau>
linkedin.com/in/skeeve
experts360: https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9
twitter.com/theispguy ; blog: www.theispguy.com
The Experts Who The Experts Call
Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>All,</div><div><br></div><div>There has been a lot of=
calls for more transparency of APNIC, the work they undertake and their fi=
nancial reporting.</div><div><br></div><div>I'd like to take this a ste=
p further and request that all NIR's produce financial reports which ar=
e then made available to the wider APNIC community - except where that NIR =
is a government entity.</div>
<div><br></div><div>We are hearing so many calls by people for transparent =
reporting, fee reductions, etc... that I think it only fair that APNIC and =
the community be able to appropriately consider the financial status of all=
applicable NIR entities.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I think this is only fair, as NIR's enjoy a special=
status within APNIC, and it would be reasonable for the wider community to=
be able to understand and evaluate the financial position of the NIR's=
.</div>
<div><br></div><div>If there are no such rules for this to occur, then I wo=
uld seriously consider a policy proposal that compels NIR's to report t=
o APNIC on their financial status and that information be available to memb=
ers of APNIC.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The NIR's are a member themselves of APNIC under sp=
ecial arrangement, and as a member of APNIC, I would like to understand mor=
e about these special arrangements and how much an NIR benefits (or not) fr=
om this special arrangement.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Adam... is this request something that should be handle=
d by the EC directly, or via the Policy SIG process?<br clear=3D"all"><div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>...Skeeve</div><div><br></div><div><di=
v>
<b style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">Skeeve Stevens -=C2=A0</b><=
span style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">eintellego Networks Pty L=
td</span></div><div><div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px"=
><a href=3D"mailto:skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com" target=3D"_blank">skeeve@=
eintellegonetworks.com</a>=C2=A0;=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.eintellegonetw=
orks.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><font><p =
style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
Phone: 1300 239 038;=C2=A0Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ;=C2=A0<a>skype://skeeve<=
/a></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;marg=
in:0px"><a href=3D"http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target=3D"_blank=
">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a>=C2=A0;=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://twitter=
.com/networkceoau" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://linkedin.com/in/=
skeeve" target=3D"_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a></p>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px"=
>experts360:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9" target=3D=
"_blank">https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9</a><br></p><p style=3D"color:r=
gb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<a href=3D"http://twitter.com/theispguy" target=3D"_blank">twitter.com/thei=
spguy</a>=C2=A0; blog:=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.theispguy.com/" target=3D=
"_blank">www.theispguy.com</a><br></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-fam=
ily:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<img src=3D"http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></p></font></div><div style=
=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"color:rgb=
(127,0,127);font-size:13px">The Experts Who The Experts Call</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(127,0=
,127)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">Juniper - Cisco=C2=
=A0</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- Cloud</span><=
span style=3D"color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- Consulting</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,32=
,96);font-size:13px">- IPv4 Brokering</span></div>
</div></div></div></div>
</div></div>
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_______________________________________________
apnic-talk mailing list
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To: Skeeve Stevens <skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com>, Enrico Tam
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References: <8D12F3A74C1551C-F14-142AB at webmail-vd011.sysops.aol.com> <20140426132639.B0609206E4 at smtp.hushmail.com> <CAEUfUGOiq_vL15cL3qTcZ1V3_MhjmMuOQ=4FGO=n7FY0WF7Wkg at mail.gmail.com> <20140427070802.A3A96A039F at smtp.hushmail.com> <CAEUfUGNxeeREPQ-w-=OjbTubhYGhe4zBncpo4dMH_AQA4NfoJQ at mail.gmail.com> <FC1EF729-7AC2-4775-95DA-D3C6216B3224 at cjnet4u.com> <CAK5YLgcZBS=_eBOX3UZjQL+GaBrYSnHNRgV_M_x9bMXVzMuBzw at mail.gmail.com> <CAEUfUGNQYRbRMGHCs=Ef-d4ZpNj9eA4-ChWy+6VrgGYhVcSrEQ at mail.gmail.com> <BLU177-W1EC645AD36C19FB5187B6E7440 at phx.gbl>
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Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] ICANN 49 event wrapup
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Hi everyone
I wanted to jump in here and provide some information which I hope will=20
help in this email thread which has covered a few topics. So I hope this=20
is useful:
- APNIC's focus is the entire Asia-Pacific region and our track record=20
over the past 20+ years shows we have tried our very best to service the=20
needs of the whole region from a single office. The 2013 Annual Report,=20
which was released a few weeks ago, is a good way to see our activities=20
in the region last year as an example. You can view it here:=20
www.apnic.net/annualreport
- Balancing that reach is our task, and the costs associated with each=20
approach need to be considered. Do we maintain several offices or have=20
one and do more travel / remote work instead? One other RIR has opted=20
for multiple offices but (as Skeeve pointed out) our region is unique in=20
having NIRs which play important roles. The Secretariat has always been=20
responsible with Member funds in executing our duties so we've opted for=20
a single office + a combination of remote conferencing=20
technologies/travel for now.
- We think that helping LEAs understand what information is publicly=20
available to assist them in tackling online crime is worthwhile - not=20
just for helping LEAs make the Internet safer, but it also helps reduce=20
queries to our Member ISPs (as Rajesh noted) and APNIC. While we view=20
this as a positive investment of our time, the question of fees is=20
something to consider. It's worth mentioning that some of the LEA=20
training to date has been jointly funded with other technical partners,=20
and we do seek funding partners where possible.
- We have the APNIC Survey coming up in June so I encourage everyone to=20
have your say in this as it helps the Secretariat and the EC to plan and=20
prioritise for the future.
But of course we always welcome Member discussion on this list -=20
apnic-talk was set up for this very purpose! So please do continue to=20
use the list to share your thoughts, we do read all the messages.
Thanks
Tony
On 28/04/2014 10:34 am, Skeeve Stevens wrote:
> Enrico,
>
> Are you suggesting that APNIC isn't effectively representing Asian
> interests? Have you looked to see who the EC comprises?
>
> Please check out:
> http://www.apnic.net/about-APNIC/organization/structure/apnic-executive-c=
ouncil/ec-members and
> let me and the community know if you do not think that most of these
> people are leaders from Asia who understand the local community and
> developments.
>
> Also, look at the staff breakdown of APNIC at
> http://www.apnic.net/about-APNIC/team which I think very clearly
> represents the economies in the region.
>
> I really don't know how you can suggest that APNIC is not an
> organisation that is heavily focused on Asia.
>
> Personally I think all this nationalistic talk is nonsense and people
> need to think of the whole community, not just their country or corner
> of the community. To suggest that only asians in Asia can do the job
> effectively start to take us down a path that will get very messy.
>
> ...Skeeve
>
> *Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
> skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com <mailto:skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com> ;
> www.eintellegonetworks.com <http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/>
>
> Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
>
> facebook.com/eintellegonetworks
> <http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks> ;
> <http://twitter.com/networkceoau>linkedin.com/in/skeeve
> <http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve>
>
> experts360: https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9
>
> twitter.com/theispguy <http://twitter.com/theispguy> ; blog:
> www.theispguy.com <http://www.theispguy.com/>
>
>
> The Experts Who The Experts Call
> Juniper - Cisco - Cloud- Consulting- IPv4 Brokering
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Enrico Tam <enrico_tam at outlook.com
> <mailto:enrico_tam at outlook.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This is a very good discussion. In principle I agree with most of
> your comments.
>
> Lets be realistic here and continue to debate meangifully.
>
> We are in the era of talking about IANA globalization. We have:
>
> 1. DotAsia for ASIA, located in ASIA
> 2. ITU office for ASIA, located in ASIA
> 3. ICANN Hub for ASIA, located in ASIA
> 4. ISOC hub for ASIA, located in ASIA
> 5. APT for ASIA, located in ASIA
>
> Where is the RIR for ASIA? I think we're clearly missing out on our
> identity with not having an RIR for ASIA located in ASIA. Let's not
> talk about a regional office for South Asia, Sout East Asia, East
> Asia...this may not work for us with such a diverse region.
>
> Lets concentrate our efforts to have an ASIAN RIR that is headed by
> and managed by Leaders from ASIA who understands our community and
> the developments.
>
> Regards
> Enrico Tam
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
> From: skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com
> <mailto:skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com>
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 08:42:05 +1000
> To: aftab.siddiqui at gmail.com <mailto:aftab.siddiqui at gmail.com>
> CC: apnic-talk at lists.apnic.net <mailto:apnic-talk at lists.apnic.net>
> Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] ICANN 49 event wrapup
>
> As I pointed out before... APNIC is the only RIR that has the
> concept of NIR's. I think that NIR's address the needs of local
> resources where required.
>
> Any concept of regional offices should also be free as possible from
> travel restrictions and people accessing any resources. This is not
> the case in many countries in our region, which is why an NIR
> structure is far more suitable.
>
>
> ...Skeeve
>
> *Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
> skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com
> <mailto:skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com> ; www.eintellegonetworks.com
> <http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/>
>
> Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
>
> facebook.com/eintellegonetworks
> <http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks> ;
> <http://twitter.com/networkceoau>linkedin.com/in/skeeve
> <http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve>
>
> experts360: https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9
>
> twitter.com/theispguy <http://twitter.com/theispguy> ; blog:
> www.theispguy.com <http://www.theispguy.com/>
>
>
> The Experts Who The Experts Call
> Juniper - Cisco - Cloud- Consulting- IPv4 Brokering
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 4:18 AM, Aftab Siddiqui
> <aftab.siddiqui at gmail.com <mailto:aftab.siddiqui at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Rajesh Sb,
>
>
> Why can=92t APNIC has an regional office in Islamabad or Dakh=
a ?
>
>
> Thats an interesting point. If you can recall, RIPE NCC opened
> up its regional office in Dubai this year specifically to target
> middle-east region. South Asian region can have APNIC's regional
> office too.
>
> Regards,
>
> Aftab A. Siddiqui
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ apnic-talk mailing
> list apnic-talk at lists.apnic.net <mailto:apnic-talk at lists.apnic.net>
> http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apnic-talk
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> apnic-talk mailing list
> apnic-talk at lists.apnic.net
> http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apnic-talk
>
_______________________________________________
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Hi Rajesh,
I did not raise the issue of APNIC being country biased, Hanif did and said
they were Oceania focused and not Asia. I think that is insulting - but I
am not offended.
There was no insult meant toward Hanif personally or certainly to
Pakistan... as I said, I have staff from there and was simply relating
their comments which I trust, which equally apply to any country in any
region. The cricket remark was a joke, so relax. I do hope to visit
Pakistan one day.
I do not believe the physical location of APNIC makes any difference, but
there could be value in having staff based regionally... but for what?
Setting up a remote office is actually very expensive and would cost far
more than the current travel expenses. RIPE has setup a regional office
recently... should APNIC do this? I am not against it, but there would
have to be a cost advantage to it happening and an obvious value
proposition.
For the most part I think that NIR's do a lot of this work and is a more
appropriate mechanism.
I also do not believe change for the sake of change is worth it. There is
no point discussing the relocation of the APNIC head office, unless there
is some specific driving force for it to do so... and if there was, I would
fully support it. Otherwise we could have 50+ countries suggesting that
they need more attention and that basing APNIC there would help them. I
think this is the wrong way to look at it.
One thing we need to do here as a membership is to stop trying to
micro-manage APNIC. They have a DG, Deputy DG and EC that we elect to do
that. It is their responsibility to manage the day-to-day and we should
leave it to them unless there is a big problem. And the way we should
address big problems is by electing new EC members if we think the current
ones are not doing a proper job. If the WHOLE community thinks they are
doing an ok job, then leave them alone for the most part to do the small
things that should not be concerning themselves about.
Rajesh, I am not trying to sow differences between countrymen at all. I am
suggesting to someone that they talk to a fellow countrymen so that they
might hopefully be able to express the roles and positions of APNIC in a
local context. I do the same all the time to those in Australia who might
criticise what APNIC does and how.
It is easy to sit far away, not attend conferences, not be involved and
criticise any process and organisation. The Internet has provided everyone
a (sometimes loud) voice to be armchair sportsmen that don't actually have
to get involved in anything, but can sit at a distance and criticise on
issues that are not fully understood.
...Skeeve
*Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com ; www.eintellegonetworks.com
Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
facebook.com/eintellegonetworks ; <http://twitter.com/networkceoau>
linkedin.com/in/skeeve
experts360: https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9
twitter.com/theispguy ; blog: www.theispguy.com
The Experts Who The Experts Call
Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 1:40 AM, Rajesh Chharia <rc at cjnet4u.com> wrote:
> Dear Skeeve,
>
> Its not fair to take debates to insult any Country. Every country
> including yours has its own problem, without loosing a cricket match ;-).
>
> Hanif's view point is that we should review the location of APNIC, which
> is currently limited to Australia. In no way that is anything against
> Australia or can instigate someone to feel so offended.
>
> Globally, same discussion has been going for ICANN. Do you think friends
> of ICANN are turning this debate to insult the sovereignties ?
>
> Why can=E2=80=99t APNIC has an regional office in Islamabad or Dakha ? I =
think
> Hanif has taken up this discussion and to refer Aftab Siddiqui here is to
> sow difference between fellow countrymen and anyone can see through it.
>
> I feel instead of diverting this debate to such low level is not expected
> from you atleast. I have been seeing this concern for very long now and
> every time you have been responding which looks alike that APNIC has some
> problem here, I dont think that is the actual case. Its a strong body and
> need to have outreach program.
>
> Dear Hanif, advantage of such outreach program is for LEA as well as for
> the members also as its our LEA is well informed, it would be less
> botheration for we ISP's. Similarly, you are also right that training
> program are required in emerging economies.
>
> I am sure Paul and Akinori are competent to explain you the same. I
> sincerely apologise for any inadvertent nasty remark to your post.
>
> Please raise all concern at APNIC talk and be assured that APNIC as well
> as members would be responding positively.
>
>
> *Best Regards,Rajesh Chharia+91 98110 38188*
>
>
> On 27-Apr-2014, at 18:43 pm, Skeeve Stevens <skeeve at eintellegonetworks.co=
m>
> wrote:
>
> Hanif,
>
> I think you need to talk to some of your fellow countrymen who have
> attended the APNIC meetings and seem to more clearly understand the value
> of APNIC, its operations and why it does what it does - better than you d=
o.
>
> Pakistan is a dangerous place... you cannot deny that. My senior
> engineers here in Australia are from Pakistan and even they advise me that
> I should not travel to Pakistan as the chance of a negative incident
> against a white westerner is high... simply because we are white and they
> may assume we are American. I have not been there, but I do trust the
> dozen people I know from Pakistan who say that it isn't wise to go to many
> of the areas in that country.
>
> APNIC used to be based in Japan, now Australia, maybe in the future
> somewhere else... who knows. But I think your assumption that the EC are
> biased is in your own mind as those with backgrounds from Australia, Nepa=
l,
> China, Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan are represented - with Australia,
> apart from the DG only have one (1) position. If anything, China (and
> related countries) are more represented than others. So please don't say
> that Oceania is over represented. Every single member of the EC has earn=
ed
> their position by being a valued member of Internet community.
>
> Even the staff of APNIC itself is significantly represented by those other
> than white Australia background.
>
> Pakistan also too has some great representatives in Internet Governance
> such as Aftab Siddiqui. As someone who is very much involved in the
> community and comes to the meetings, perhaps you should raise your concer=
ns
> with him.
>
> The EC represent the ENTIRE region... including yours. They have 56 (54
> active I think) economies across a large geographic area. It is funny
> those who have an issue only ever seem to have one about their own country
> not getting looked after enough.
>
> I suggest your criticism that the EC/APNIC is Oceania or Australian biased
> is not based in any reality, and if you have an issue, I'd suggest to
> actually come to a meeting and talk to people. You seem quite
> anti-Australia... maybe this is just a Cricket thing... are you still ups=
et
> about the 5-0 loss in 2010? ;-)
>
>
> ...Skeeve
>
> *Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
> skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com ; www.eintellegonetworks.com
> Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
> facebook.com/eintellegonetworks ; <http://twitter.com/networkceoau>
> linkedin.com/in/skeeve
> experts360: https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9
> twitter.com/theispguy ; blog: www.theispguy.com
>
> The Experts Who The Experts Call
> Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 5:08 PM, <haquehanif at hushmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Skeeve,
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, 26 April 2014 at 4:19 PM, "Skeeve Stevens" <
>> skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Hanif,
>> >
>> >I rely on APNIC and its EC to consider the entire
>> >community/regions needs
>> >as opposed to a vocal minority... even if that minority was just
>> >me yelling
>> >about something. We choose an EC whose roles transcend their home
>> >country
>> >and become for the good of everyone they represent.
>>
>> I am yet to understand who the EC is representing. For sure the EC is not
>> representing Members by allowing APNIC staff travel in business class.
>>
>> I am also yet to understand if APNIC is for Asia and Oceania or just for
>> Oceania. I think this RIR is for Oceania not Asia.
>>
>> Reasons:
>>
>> 1. Located in Australia (Oceania)
>> 2. Headed by an Australian and 90% of its senior managemnt or the
>> decision makers are from Oceania.
>> 3. Follows Australian travel adversaries. No trainings or workshops here
>> in Pakistan for last two years.
>> 4. Contributes to the Australian work force
>>
>> So, I think it is an 'Australia' Pacifc Network Information Centre
>> (APNIC) not Asia Pacific RIR.
>>
>> >
>> >I think rather than accusations of mis-management, I'd spend some
>> >time
>> >talking to members of the EC about why certain decisions are made.
>> > Most of
>> >them are more than willing to talk to you and give you their
>> >perspective -
>> >which btw, does not always agree across all EC members... but
>> >most of the
>> >time they come to a consensus for the benefit of all members...
>>
>> We're talking now and hope the EC pay close attention to this discussion.
>>
>> Regards
>> Hanif H Mohd
>> Senior Network Consultant
>> PKSP, Pakistan
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >...Skeeve
>> >
>> >*Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
>> >skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com ; www.eintellegonetworks.com
>> >
>> >Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
>> >
>> >facebook.com/eintellegonetworks ;
>> ><http://twitter.com/networkceoau>
>> >linkedin.com/in/skeeve
>> >
>> >experts360: https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9
>> >
>> >twitter.com/theispguy ; blog: www.theispguy.com
>> >
>> >
>> >The Experts Who The Experts Call
>> >Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering
>> >
>> >
>> >On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 11:26 PM, <haquehanif at hushmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Dave,
>> >>
>> >> Very good point but its a taboo at APNIC to discuss about
>> >Members fee and
>> >> APNIC (mis) management of funds. APNIC maintains a white list
>> >and a black
>> >> list of public contacts. You're now in their black list for
>> >raising this.
>> >> Like many others, this discussion will end up in the no through
>> >road. The
>> >> Executive council we selected are like the famous three wise
>> >monkeys."see
>> >> no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil". For our representatives
>> >business is
>> >> as usual.
>> >>
>> >> APNIC recently started providing training for law enforcement
>> >agencies
>> >> using Members funds....we did not blessed either. Its a good
>> >initiative and
>> >> I personally commend APNIC for this. However, these LEAs are
>> >government
>> >> agencies and have big budgets. If LEAs request training APNIC
>> >must use LEAs
>> >> budget to provide such trainings not Members funds. Its just not
>> >right!
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> Hanif H Mohd
>> >> Senior Network Consultant
>> >> PKSP, Pakistan
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Saturday, 26 April 2014 at 5:44 PM, "Dave Mead"
>> ><dave_mead at aim.com>
>> >> wrote: Paul,
>> >>
>> >> Your speech at Asia Pacific Internet Leadership Program meeting
>> >is
>> >> utterly disappointing to APNIC Members.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.apnic.net/publications/news/2014/icann-49-event-wrapup
>> >>
>> >> You said, "...Members pay fees to APNIC to support the
>> >organisation and
>> >> the services and they don't give APNIC a blessing to spend that
>> >money in
>> >> unlimited fashion on Internet development..."
>> >>
>> >> http://audio.icann.org/meetings/singapore2014/apilp-22mar14-
>> >en.mp3
>> >>
>> >> Members DID NOT BLESS APNIC to spend the fees on business class
>> >travel
>> >> which costs 3 times more than an economy class ticket. The
>> >entire senior
>> >> management, including your Executve Assistant and those who work
>> >for APNIC
>> >> as consultants travel in business class contributing to the
>> >success of the
>> >> airlines but clearly not Internet development in this region.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.apnic.net/about-APNIC/team
>> >>
>> >> Paul, you're leading a not-for-profit organisation not a
>> >comerncial
>> >> entity that you and your senior management can erode member
>> >funds for your
>> >> comfortable travels across the world. This is just outrageous and
>> >> mismanagement of Member funds.
>> >>
>> >> Members like to see the Executive Council takes note of this
>> >and truely
>> >> represent the Members to better manage their funds to contribute
>> >for the
>> >> Internet development in this region. A lot of development work
>> >can be done
>> >> if the funds are managed effectively not use for personal
>> >benefits.
>> >>
>> >> Best
>> >> -Dave Mead
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> apnic-talk mailing list
>> >> apnic-talk at lists.apnic.net
>> >> http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apnic-talk
>> >>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> apnic-talk mailing list
> apnic-talk at lists.apnic.net
> http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apnic-talk
>
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Rajesh,<div><br></div><div>I did not raise the issue of=
APNIC being country biased, Hanif did and said they were Oceania focused a=
nd not Asia. =C2=A0I think that is insulting - =C2=A0but I am not offended.=
</div><div>
<br></div><div>There was no insult meant toward Hanif personally or certain=
ly to Pakistan... as I said, I have staff from there and was simply relatin=
g their comments which I trust, which equally apply to any country in any r=
egion. =C2=A0The cricket remark was a joke, so relax. I do hope to visit Pa=
kistan one day.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I do not believe the physical location of APNIC makes a=
ny difference, but there could be value in having staff based regionally...=
but for what? =C2=A0Setting up a remote office is actually very expensive =
and would cost far more than the current travel expenses. =C2=A0RIPE has se=
tup a regional office recently... should APNIC do this? =C2=A0I am not agai=
nst it, but there would have to be a cost advantage to it happening and an =
obvious value proposition.</div>
<div><br></div><div>For the most part I think that NIR's do a lot of th=
is work and is a more appropriate mechanism.</div><div><br></div><div>I als=
o do not believe change for the sake of change is worth it. =C2=A0There is =
no point discussing the relocation of the APNIC head office, unless there i=
s some specific driving force for it to do so... and if there was, I would =
fully support it. =C2=A0Otherwise we could have 50+ countries suggesting th=
at they need more attention and that basing APNIC there would help them. =
=C2=A0I think this is the wrong way to look at it.<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>One thing we need to do here as a membership is t=
o stop trying to micro-manage APNIC. =C2=A0They have a DG, Deputy DG and EC=
that we elect to do that. =C2=A0It is their responsibility to manage the d=
ay-to-day and we should leave it to them unless there is a big problem. =C2=
=A0And the way we should address big problems is by electing new EC members=
if we think the current ones are not doing a proper job. =C2=A0If the WHOL=
E community thinks they are doing an ok job, then leave them alone for the =
most part to do the small things that should not be concerning themselves a=
bout.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Rajesh, I am not trying to sow differences between coun=
trymen at all. =C2=A0I am suggesting to someone that they talk to a fellow =
countrymen so that they might hopefully be able to express the roles and po=
sitions of APNIC in a local context. =C2=A0I do the same all the time to th=
ose in Australia who might criticise what APNIC does and how.</div>
<div><br></div><div>It is easy to sit far away, not attend conferences, not=
be involved and criticise any process and organisation. =C2=A0The Internet=
has provided everyone a (sometimes loud) voice to be armchair sportsmen th=
at don't actually have to get involved in anything, but can sit at a di=
stance and criticise on issues that are not fully understood.</div>
<div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>...Skeeve</div><div><br></div><div><div><b =
style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">Skeeve Stevens -=C2=A0</b><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">eintellego Networks Pty Ltd<=
/span></div>
<div><div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px"><a href=3D"mai=
lto:skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com" target=3D"_blank">skeeve at eintellegonetwo=
rks.com</a>=C2=A0;=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" targ=
et=3D"_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><font><p style=3D"color:=
rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
Phone: 1300 239 038;=C2=A0Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ;=C2=A0<a>skype://skeeve<=
/a></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;marg=
in:0px"><a href=3D"http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target=3D"_blank=
">facebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a>=C2=A0;=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://twitter=
.com/networkceoau" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://linkedin.com/in/=
skeeve" target=3D"_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a></p>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px"=
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<a href=3D"http://twitter.com/theispguy" target=3D"_blank">twitter.com/thei=
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"_blank">www.theispguy.com</a><br></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-fam=
ily:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<img src=3D"http://eintellegonetworks.com/logos/ein09.png" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></p></font></div><div style=
=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"color:rgb=
(127,0,127);font-size:13px">The Experts Who The Experts Call</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(127,0=
,127)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">Juniper - Cisco=C2=
=A0</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- Cloud</span><=
span style=3D"color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- Consulting</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,32=
,96);font-size:13px">- IPv4 Brokering</span></div>
</div></div></div></div>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 1:40 AM, Rajesh =
Chharia <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:rc at cjnet4u.com" target=3D"_=
blank">rc at cjnet4u.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Dear Skeeve,<div><br></div><div>Its not=
fair to take debates to insult any Country. Every country including yours =
has its own problem, without loosing a cricket match ;-).=C2=A0</div><div><=
br>
</div><div>Hanif's view point is that we should review the location of =
APNIC, which is currently limited to Australia. In no way that is anything =
against Australia or can instigate someone to feel so offended.</div><div>
<br></div><div>Globally, same discussion has been going for ICANN. Do you t=
hink friends of ICANN are turning this debate to insult the sovereignties ?=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Why can=E2=80=99t APNIC has an regional off=
ice in Islamabad or Dakha ? I think Hanif has taken up this discussion and =
to refer Aftab Siddiqui here is to sow difference between fellow countrymen=
and anyone can see through it.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I feel instead of diverting this debate to such low lev=
el is not expected from you atleast. I have been seeing this concern for ve=
ry long now and every time you have been responding which looks alike that =
APNIC has some problem here, I dont think that is the actual case. Its a st=
rong body and need to have outreach program.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Dear Hanif, advantage of such outreach program is for L=
EA as well as for the members also as its our LEA is well informed, it woul=
d be less botheration for we ISP's. =C2=A0Similarly, you are also right=
that training program are required in emerging economies.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I am sure Paul and Akinori are competent to explain you=
the same. I sincerely apologise for any inadvertent nasty remark to your p=
ost.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Please raise all concern at APNIC talk =
and be assured that APNIC as well as members would be responding positively=
.=C2=A0<br>
<div>
<span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"=
font-size:14px;font-style:italic"><span style=3D"line-height:normal;text-in=
dent:0px;border-collapse:separate;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal=
;text-transform:none;font-style:normal;white-space:normal;font-family:Verda=
na;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;font-=
style:italic"><span style=3D"line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;border-coll=
apse:separate;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-transform:none=
;font-style:normal;white-space:normal;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:norma=
l;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;font-style:italic"><span =
style=3D"line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;border-collapse:separate;letter=
-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-transform:none;font-style:normal;w=
hite-space:normal;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px">=
<span style=3D"font-size:14px;font-style:italic"><span style=3D"line-height=
:normal;text-indent:0px;border-collapse:separate;letter-spacing:normal;font=
-variant:normal;text-transform:none;font-style:normal;white-space:normal;fo=
nt-family:Verdana;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-=
size:14px"><div>
<i><div><br><font color=3D"#2300C5"><b>Best Regards,</b></font></div><div><=
font color=3D"#2300C5"><b>Rajesh Chharia</b></font></div><div><font color=
=3D"#2300C5"><b>+91 98110 38188</b></font></div><div><br></div></i></div><d=
iv>
<i><span style=3D"text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal=
;text-align:auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;bo=
rder-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;font-family:V=
erdana;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;font-style:italic"><=
span style=3D"line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;border-collapse:separate;l=
etter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-transform:none;font-style:nor=
mal;white-space:normal;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:=
0px"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;font-style:italic"><span style=3D"line-h=
eight:normal;text-indent:0px;border-collapse:separate;letter-spacing:normal=
;font-variant:normal;text-transform:none;font-style:normal;white-space:norm=
al;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"=
font-size:14px;font-style:italic"><span style=3D"line-height:normal;text-in=
dent:0px;border-collapse:separate;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal=
;text-transform:none;font-style:normal;white-space:normal;font-family:Verda=
na;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;font-=
style:italic"><br>
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span>
</i></div><i>
</i></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><=
/div><br><div><div>On 27-Apr-2014, at 18:43 pm, Skeeve Stevens <<a href=
=3D"mailto:skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com" target=3D"_blank">skeeve at eintelle=
gonetworks.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hanif,<div><br></div><div>I =
think you need to talk to some of your fellow countrymen who have attended =
the APNIC meetings and seem to more clearly understand the value of APNIC, =
its operations and why it does what it does - better than you do.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Pakistan is a dangerous place... you cannot deny that. =
=C2=A0My senior engineers here in Australia are from Pakistan and even they=
advise me that I should not travel to Pakistan as the chance of a negative=
incident against a white westerner is high... simply because we are white =
and they may assume we are American. =C2=A0I have not been there, but I do =
trust the dozen people I know from Pakistan who say that it isn't wise =
to go to many of the areas in that country.</div>
<div><br></div><div>APNIC used to be based in Japan, now Australia, maybe i=
n the future somewhere else... who knows. =C2=A0But I think your assumption=
that the EC are biased is in your own mind as those with backgrounds from =
Australia, Nepal, China, Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan are represented - =
with Australia, apart from the DG only have one (1) position. =C2=A0If anyt=
hing, China (and related countries) are more represented than others. =C2=
=A0So please don't say that Oceania is over represented. =C2=A0Every si=
ngle member of the EC has earned their position by being a valued member of=
Internet community. =C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>Even the staff of APNIC itself is significantly represe=
nted by those other than white Australia background.<br></div><div><br></di=
v><div>Pakistan also too has some great representatives in Internet Governa=
nce such as Aftab Siddiqui. =C2=A0As someone who is very much involved in t=
he community and comes to the meetings, perhaps you should raise your conce=
rns with him.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>The EC represent the ENTIRE region... including yours. =
=C2=A0They have 56 (54 active I think) economies across a large geographic =
area. =C2=A0It is funny those who have an issue only ever seem to have one =
about their own country not getting looked after enough.<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>I suggest your criticism that the EC/APNIC is Oce=
ania or Australian biased is not based in any reality, and if you have an i=
ssue, I'd suggest to actually come to a meeting and talk to people. =C2=
=A0You seem quite anti-Australia... maybe this is just a Cricket thing... a=
re you still upset about the 5-0 loss in 2010? ;-)</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br=
></div><div>...Skeeve</div><div><br></div><div><div><b style=3D"font-size:1=
3px;font-family:Calibri">Skeeve Stevens -=C2=A0</b><span style=3D"font-size=
:13px;font-family:Calibri">eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span></div>
<div><div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px"><a href=3D"mai=
lto:skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com" target=3D"_blank">skeeve at eintellegonetwo=
rks.com</a>=C2=A0;=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/" targ=
et=3D"_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a></span><font><div style=3D"font=
-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
Phone: 1300 239 038;=C2=A0Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ;=C2=A0<a>skype://skeeve<=
/a></div><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px"><a hr=
ef=3D"http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target=3D"_blank">facebook.co=
m/eintellegonetworks</a>=C2=A0;=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://twitter.com/networkc=
eoau" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" targe=
t=3D"_blank">linkedin.com/in/skeeve</a></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px;margin:0px">experts360:=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9" target=3D"_blank">https:=
//expert360.com/profile/d54a9</a><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Calibr=
i;font-size:13px;margin:0px">
<a href=3D"http://twitter.com/theispguy" target=3D"_blank">twitter.com/thei=
spguy</a>=C2=A0; blog:=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.theispguy.com/" target=3D=
"_blank">www.theispguy.com</a><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;f=
ont-size:13px;margin:0px">
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mily:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></div></font></div><div styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"color:rg=
b(127,0,127);font-size:13px">The Experts Who The Experts Call</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(127,0=
,127)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">Juniper - Cisco=C2=
=A0</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">- Cloud</span><=
span style=3D"color:rgb(0,32,96);font-size:13px">=C2=A0</span><span style=
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,96);font-size:13px">- IPv4 Brokering</span></div>
</div></div></div></div>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 5:08 PM, <span =
dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:haquehanif at hushmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
">haquehanif at hushmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex">
Skeeve,<br>
<br>
<br>
On Saturday, 26 April 2014 at 4:19 PM, "Skeeve Stevens" <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com" target=3D"_blank">skeeve at eintel=
legonetworks.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>Hanif,<br>
><br>
>I rely on APNIC and its EC to consider the entire<br>
>community/regions needs<br>
>as opposed to a vocal minority... even if that minority was just<br>
>me yelling<br>
>about something. =C2=A0We choose an EC whose roles transcend their home=
<br>
>country<br>
>and become for the good of everyone they represent.<br>
<br>
I am yet to understand who the EC is representing. For sure the EC is not r=
epresenting Members by allowing APNIC staff travel in business class.<br>
<br>
I am also yet to understand if APNIC is for Asia and Oceania or just for Oc=
eania. I think this RIR is for Oceania not Asia.<br>
<br>
Reasons:<br>
<br>
1. Located in Australia (Oceania)<br>
2. Headed by an Australian and 90% of its senior managemnt or the decision =
makers are from Oceania.<br>
3. Follows Australian travel adversaries. No trainings or workshops here in=
Pakistan for last two years.<br>
4. Contributes to the Australian work force<br>
<br>
So, I think it is an 'Australia' Pacifc Network Information Centre =
(APNIC) not Asia Pacific RIR.<br>
<br>
><br>
>I think rather than accusations of mis-management, I'd spend some<b=
r>
>time<br>
>talking to members of the EC about why certain decisions are made.<br>
> Most of<br>
>them are more than willing to talk to you and give you their<br>
>perspective -<br>
>which btw, does not always agree across all EC members... =C2=A0but<br>
>most of the<br>
>time they come to a consensus for the benefit of all members...<br>
<br>
We're talking now and hope the EC pay close attention to this discussio=
n.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Hanif H Mohd<br>
Senior Network Consultant<br>
PKSP, Pakistan<br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
>...Skeeve<br>
><br>
>*Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd<br>
><a href=3D"mailto:skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com" target=3D"_blank">skee=
ve at eintellegonetworks.com</a> ; <a href=3D"http://www.eintellegonetworks.co=
m/" target=3D"_blank">www.eintellegonetworks.com</a><br>
><br>
>Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; <a>skype://skeeve</a><br>
><br>
><a href=3D"http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks" target=3D"_blank">fa=
cebook.com/eintellegonetworks</a> ;<br>
><<a href=3D"http://twitter.com/networkceoau" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//twitter.com/networkceoau</a>><br>
><a href=3D"http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve" target=3D"_blank">linkedin.co=
m/in/skeeve</a><br>
><br>
>experts360: <a href=3D"https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9" target=3D"_=
blank">https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9</a><br>
><br>
><a href=3D"http://twitter.com/theispguy" target=3D"_blank">twitter.com/=
theispguy</a> ; blog: <a href=3D"http://www.theispguy.com/" target=3D"_blan=
k">www.theispguy.com</a><br>
><br>
><br>
>The Experts Who The Experts Call<br>
>Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering<br>
><br>
><br>
>On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 11:26 PM, <<a href=3D"mailto:haquehanif at hush=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">haquehanif at hushmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Hi Dave,<br>
>><br>
>> Very good point but its a taboo at APNIC to discuss about<br>
>Members fee and<br>
>> APNIC (mis) management of funds. APNIC maintains a white list<br>
>and a black<br>
>> list of public contacts. You're now in their black list for<br>
>raising this.<br>
>> Like many others, this discussion will end up in the no through<br>
>road. The<br>
>> Executive council we selected are like the famous three wise<br>
>monkeys."see<br>
>> no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil". For our representative=
s<br>
>business is<br>
>> as usual.<br>
>><br>
>> APNIC recently started providing training for law enforcement<br>
>agencies<br>
>> using Members funds....we did not blessed either. Its a good<br>
>initiative and<br>
>> I personally commend APNIC for this. However, these LEAs are<br>
>government<br>
>> agencies and have big budgets. If LEAs request training APNIC<br>
>must use LEAs<br>
>> budget to provide such trainings not Members funds. Its just not<b=
r>
>right!<br>
>><br>
>> Regards<br>
>> Hanif H Mohd<br>
>> Senior Network Consultant<br>
>> PKSP, Pakistan<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Saturday, 26 April 2014 at 5:44 PM, "Dave Mead"<br>
><<a href=3D"mailto:dave_mead at aim.com" target=3D"_blank">dave_mead at ai=
m.com</a>><br>
>> wrote: =C2=A0 =C2=A0Paul,<br>
>><br>
>> =C2=A0Your speech at Asia Pacific Internet Leadership Program meet=
ing<br>
>is<br>
>> utterly disappointing to APNIC Members.<br>
>><br>
>> <a href=3D"http://www.apnic.net/publications/news/2014/icann-49-ev=
ent-wrapup" target=3D"_blank">http://www.apnic.net/publications/news/2014/i=
cann-49-event-wrapup</a><br>
>><br>
>> You said, "...Members pay fees to APNIC to support the<br>
>organisation and<br>
>> the services and they don't give APNIC a blessing to spend tha=
t<br>
>money in<br>
>> unlimited fashion on Internet development..."<br>
>><br>
>> =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://audio.icann.org/meetings/singapore2014/api=
lp-22mar14-" target=3D"_blank">http://audio.icann.org/meetings/singapore201=
4/apilp-22mar14-</a><br>
>en.mp3<br>
>><br>
>> =C2=A0Members DID NOT BLESS APNIC to spend the fees on business cl=
ass<br>
>travel<br>
>> which costs 3 times more than an economy class ticket. The<br>
>entire senior<br>
>> management, including your Executve Assistant and those who work<b=
r>
>for APNIC<br>
>> as consultants travel in business class contributing to the<br>
>success of the<br>
>> airlines but clearly not Internet development in this region.<br>
>><br>
>> <a href=3D"http://www.apnic.net/about-APNIC/team" target=3D"_blank=
">http://www.apnic.net/about-APNIC/team</a><br>
>><br>
>> =C2=A0Paul, you're leading a not-for-profit organisation not a=
<br>
>comerncial<br>
>> entity that you and your senior management can erode member<br>
>funds for your<br>
>> comfortable travels across the world. This is just outrageous and<=
br>
>> mismanagement of Member funds.<br>
>><br>
>> =C2=A0Members like to see the Executive Council takes note of this=
<br>
>and truely<br>
>> represent the Members to better manage their funds to contribute<b=
r>
>for the<br>
>> Internet development in this region. A lot of development work<br>
>can be done<br>
>> if the funds are managed effectively not use for personal<br>
>benefits.<br>
>><br>
>> =C2=A0Best<br>
>> =C2=A0-Dave Mead<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> apnic-talk mailing list<br>
>> <a href=3D"mailto:apnic-talk at lists.apnic.net" target=3D"_blank">ap=
nic-talk at lists.apnic.net</a><br>
>> <a href=3D"http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apnic-talk" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apnic-talk</a><b=
r>
>><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>apnic-talk mailing list<=
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/apnic-talk</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
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