[bestbits] multistakeholderism is democracy was Re: [] FW: US Is an O...

[Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal]

Avri,

It is good/sad to see how deep we disagree. At least, this below shows once again that we are lost in definition. How can anything good come out of that mess? Mawaki disagrees with MSism would pretend to be an enhanced Democracy idea as proposed by many MSists. Avri says MSism is a form of Democracy. So you are saying that MSism is this famous Democracy ++ thing. 

This is very dangerous game.

I am afraid to consider what your "cooking" looks like apprenti-sorcier efforts. MSism is a Cheval de Troie for vested interests to escape rules of law, democracy, social justice, fair and sustainable development, citizens/users expression of direct interest or concerns. Big corps have to come after! All of this make it impossible for people to join the conversation in a clear, understandable (no definition), and trusted fashion. Why do you refuse to see that this is part of the reality that is not acceptable to honest democrats.

One of the major point with Democracy is trust. When trust disappears in a Democracy, the people is taking up the street, and sometime overthrowing these authorities whom lose trust. From what an honest observer can tell, regarding MSism, is that MSism kills trust for most of it. Self-appointments, no check and balance, lots of happy-few meetings, approach, parallel mailing list, corruption, lobbying, pressure, out-of-nowhere decisions, absence of common definition... See where we are today! At least under the Internet Governance debate, driven by the tenants of MSism. To say that Internet has become a global commons is not to declare war, or to declare that Internet is sick. It is just a fact.

There is no future for a MSism system of governance, if it doesn't accept first and foremost to put itself under the command of very democratic rules and principles. If not, the market forces will always prevail. And your MSistic dreams and ideal will fade away.

JC

Le 15 avr. 2014 à 16:11, Avri Doria a écrit :

> 
> 
> On 15-Apr-14 09:37, Mawaki Chango wrote:
>> MSism is a decision-making process and I don't know where anyone could
>> have possibly taken that bogus idea that MSism is the next big thing
>> after democracy (just like democracy once was that next big thing after
>> tyranny, aristocracy, etc.)
> 
> I am one who does argues that Multistakeholderism is not just another
> decision making process.
> 
> I also do not claim in is the next big thing after democracy.  I argue
> that it is a form of democracy.  Multistakeholderism includes modalities
> of democratic organization as well as a variety of mechanisms.    It is
> a form of participatory democracy that builds upon the varieties of
> representational democracy that one finds in some countries and the
> various forms of self-organization that people in society uses to
> organize itself on issues of importance and brings them in the greater
> democratic mix.
> 
> I do agree that there is not just one form of the multistakeholder
> model, but argue that there are attributes of Multistakeholderism as
> participatory democracy that are necessary.
> 
> I too have yet to finish my self-promised work on multistakeholderism.
> Though I have written on this a bit.
> 
> avri
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