[bestbits] Logistical note for Best Bits meeting participants

[michael gurstein]

Given what you say below Avri, which I agree with for the most part... I'm
wondering what is added to the desireable and necessary discussion of
democratic governance of and in the Internet by the introduction and use of
the terminology of "Multistakeholderism" at all?

M

-----Original Message-----
From: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net
[mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 3:22 AM
To: bestbits List
Subject: Re: [bestbits] Logistical note for Best Bits meeting participants


On 18 Oct 2013, at 18:14, michael gurstein wrote:

> I've been following these and associated discussions for some time now 
> and this is the first time that I've ever seen the association that 
> you are making below, Avri, between MSism and Participatory Democracy 
> in fact when the subject has been discussed at all, my sense was that 
> most MS advocates treated democracy in whatever manifestation with some
contempt.


To me, such a discussion is an example of a category mistake - comparing a
part to the whole.

Representative Democracy, aka Indirect democracy, is just one form of
democracy; though I do admit that these days when there is so little
representative democracy in this world that is easy to forget - as citizens
continue to strive everywhere to get at least that much from their ruling
regimes.  At the other end of the scale in Direct Democracy, something that
has long been considered an impossible goal in large scale movements -
though something I think becomes possible as an universal, open& free,
secure and private Internet is achieved - but this a ways away yet.

Participatory democracy, in my opinion, falls somewhere in the middle and
includes elements of both of the other forms of democracy.  Ever since I got
involved in Internet governance activities, before I know the term Internet
governance, I have viewed participatory democracy as the evolving form we
were engaged in.

There is no contempt for democracy. For my part, however, there is a belief
that it does not go far enough in representing me as a citizen, a netizen,
an advocate, a technical person, etc.  It does not go far enough in
representing the aspects of my being beyond those of a body living in a
constrained geographical space.  Another problem many of us with national
representatives being in charge is that the bureaucrats that fill the spots
in Internet governance, nice and dedicated though they may be, are a second
derivative of indirect democracy, i.e. they are even more indirect.  They
are often life time agency workers whose accountability to the demos is
tenuous at best - though their boss may indeed be appointed by the elected
representatives. Those who represent nations in Internet governance are, at
best, accountable their boss, who is hopefully accountable (think of Yes,
Minister examples here) to someone who may be accountable to election.

Another element is that the stakeholders, for want of a better term, are
groups in their own right that should be democratic and accountable.
Sometimes this may be done by representative democratic means, e.g. when the
group is small enough or organized enough to scale elections.  Sometimes it
may be direct democracy, or at least partially so in being open and
accessible to all.  In most cases, a form of participatory democracy suited
to the nature of the group will be the best option.

In this view, the multistakeholder model has always been a way to develop
participatory democracy or at least one form of participatory democracy.  I
don't say it works perfectly in terms of access, accountability and
transparency but in many of the cases before us it works to a limit that
needs to always be pushed forward.

So it someone tells me that national bureaucrats, with an occasional High
Level Summit, are good enough to make the ITU  or something like it
democratic, yes, I will think that inappropriate and may show some contempt
for the argument.  But if you tell me that some of the equal  partners in
multistakeholder Internet governance are representative democracies, whether
that is on a national geographic scale or a more local or non geographic
scale, I will think that is one of the appropriate ways for subsidiary
democracy to work itself out.

Now back to sleep so I am ready for tomorrow's meeting - been sleeping on
and off since i arrived in Bali 12 hours ago.

avri