[bestbits] Re: [governance] Ad hoc Best Bits strategy meeting tomorrow lunchtime

[parminder]

On Saturday 26 October 2013 09:56 AM, Lee W McKnight wrote:
> <snip>
>
> The clock is ticking, the agenda will be set basically in stone by the 
> end the year. Well not the end of the year, say December 15.  Whether 
> by the coalition of the willing, or others.
>
> Meaning we (cs, global + Brazil), i orgs, Brazilian and other 
> governments and oh yeah the telco elephants definitely in the room 
> have just  7 weeks to come up with something sensible.
>
> So far from the cheap seats it seems unlikely the panic of 2014 (Who's 
> afraid of a Plenipot? Does sound like a scary thing...) will 
> accomplish anything substantive. (quick! we need a photo op to ward of 
> the wicked plenipot)
>
> Odds on the Summit taking credit for the easy wins of patching ICANN + 
> IANA contract, per what we are hearing:  zero
>
> Odds on the Summit kicking a 'everything else' ICANN-like orphan 
> issues home of some coherence into existence: zero
>
>  (Unless someone has a strawman not-ICANN plan somewhere...Parminder 
> and I might agree that we could do worse than starting with blowing up 
> OECD's ICCP and related processes to a global model in some mind meld 
> with ICANN as a the sugar daddy/cash machine to fund and to offer 
> prototypical msh processes for the borrowing...but has anyone 
> advocated that or anything in particular else? Nope, didn't think so.)

Lee,

India's CIRP proposal, if you take out the I* oversight part, is 
basically OECD's ICCP structure; in fact a great improvement over it, 
since the CIRP proposal outlines an organic link of the new proposed 
'policy development body' with the IGF.  In its latest submission to the 
WG on EC, India has sought separate treatment of oversight and other 
public policy issues, and therefore seem to indeed have removed the I* 
oversight part from the proposed CIRP - which makes it almost identical 
to OECD's ICCP, plus the IGF linkage bonus.

And of course IT for Change along with many other NGOs have given a 
specific proposal to the WGEC to (1) develop an OECD ICCP kind of global 
body, (2) deal with the internationalisation of oversight issue 
separately through a techno-political body with a very thin and clearly 
constrained role, and (3) globally accept and formally recognise the 
current distributed architecture of technical and logical infrastructure 
related policy making and implementation processes.

In seeking some real movement forward on global IG, Brazilians have 
listed two key objectives for the proposed summit - outlines of an 
global institutional framework, and some global Internet related 
principles.

I think IGC should initiative discussion on a global institutional 
framework for IG, under three distinct heads (1) Internet related public 
policy issues  (which category has been called as 'orphan issues' in 
some recent discussions), (2) internationalisation of ICANN oversight, 
and (3) technical and logical structure policy development and day to 
day technical operations.

And another thread on key Internet principles, which can begin with some 
principles listed in  Dilma's UN speech as a good starting point.

We, as in the global civil society, are still bogged down over 
procedural issues - and being reactive - first to the Brazil summit 
initiative, and then to the I* proposal for a new non-gov stakeholders 
coalition, which also seeks to develop substantive positions. We need to 
get pro-active, and produce substantive positions towards the summit.

parminder





> And besides, since when were all 'orphan IG issues' ITU plenipot 
> matters? Someone needs to spend more time with Bill Drake and/or 
> Anthony Rutkowski telling Plenipot war stories of the last several 
> decades, to realize what is really likely to happen there. Or not.
>
> Anyway, I am afraid that right now this does indeed smell like a 
> classic 'Summit' in the making, where the main outcome is indeed the 
> group hug/photo op. And a press release.
>
> If that's all this is going to be then here's my 2 cents:
>
> forget about the event and the photo op, and focus on the 1-2 page 
> press release.
>
> Because that's odds on the only significant thing coming out of this.
>
> Meaning, to end on a positive note, if we as igc can boil down to say 
> 5 bullet points what we want from the summit, then we should say it.
>
> Rather than wasting time saying please may I (participate, attend, 
> whatever), let's just get to the (5) points. Ok, could be 7, but 
> remember if we are now dealing in sound bites and photo ops, then: 
> deal with it, and be very succinct.
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org 
> [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] on behalf of David Cake 
> [dave at difference.com.au]
> *Sent:* Friday, October 25, 2013 8:04 PM
> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Milton L Mueller
> *Subject:* Re: [governance] Ad hoc Best Bits strategy meeting tomorrow 
> lunchtime
>
>
> On 26/10/2013, at 5:33 AM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at SYR.EDU 
> <mailto:mueller at SYR.EDU>> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 9:43 PM, David Cake <dave at difference.com.au 
>> <mailto:dave at difference.com.au>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     Everything that Fadi etc have been saying says that their primary
>>     motivation is to avoid a multi-lateral government led body for
>>     Internet governance, that the ITU plenipot etc are forcing their
>>     timing (in their opinion), and that they are in a hurry to create
>>     a multi-stakeholder process that can stand as a clear
>>     alternative. And it is clear that they have no idea what exact
>>     form that will take, are very keen to have buy in from CS or any
>>     other group that will lend the effort credibility and participate
>>     constructively, and they are to a large extent rushing things
>>     largely due to circumstances/opportunity, improvising as they go,
>>     and basically dancing as fast as they can (and boy can Fadi dance).
>>
>>
>> It is not possible to be a more adamant opponent of 
>> inter-governmental control of the internet than me. However, I feel 
>> very suspicious of the way the ITU bogeyman is used to rally 
>> uncritical support for hasty and often ill-considered responses. 
>> There was a Plenipot in 2010. The Internet survived. There was WCIT 
>> in 2012. There was no serious attempt to take over the Internet, and 
>> the final treaty that provoked so much rejection was really not that 
>> bad. Now we are told we have to get all scared again and use the Rio 
>> meeting to talk NOT about fixing ICANN and the actual Internet 
>> governance institutions, but to deal with an extremely broad agenda 
>> merely in order to pre-empt the ITU.
>
> Fadi claimed to have spoken to several government leaders (of nations 
> like South Korea) who had become more inclined to multi-lateralism 
> since WCIT, with the additional impetus of post-Snowden anti-USG 
> feeling. The Montevideo statement and outreach to Brazil etc seems to 
> have been prompted by a strong feeling among the I* that the current 
> political climate is worse than in 2010, or even in 2012. I can't say 
> whether their impressions are correct, but it does seem likely that 
> they would strongly reject the line of argument you are putting here.
> I don't think we have been told we can't use the Brazil meeting to fix 
> ICANN and other institutions. The incorporation of a change in the 
> IANA contract at least opens up some aspects of ICANN oversight for 
> renegotiation, I would have thought. And good.
>
>
>> And yet, Brazil is basically defecting from the pro-government 
>> coalition, the WCIT results have made it clear that there is nothing 
>> close to an international consensus on inserting the ITU into IG. Can 
>> we be a bit more sober and realistic about what is happening?
>
> Well, sure - but Fadi has more contact with government leaders than I 
> do, so if he says things are substantially worse since WCIT, I have no 
> reason to doubt him either.
>
>> More to the point, why don't WE try to set the agenda, instead of 
>> letting those who run the I* institutions do so? Why are you always 
>> reacting to their initiatives instead of taking your own?
>
> We could have, but we didn't. And then the I* orgs panicked a little. 
> I think Fadi etc were hoping something would emerge spontaneously 
> post-WCIT, but when it didn't and they perceived it as becoming urgent 
> they started the process themselves.
>
>
>>     This isn't an ICANN centric process. Yes, a renewed discussion
>>     about IANA and ICANN accountability can, and should, form part of
>>     that discussion. I can assure others in civil society that those
>>     of us involved with ICANN (including Milton and myself) are very
>>     keen to lead critical discussions about ICANN accountability. I
>>     find it very odd over the last few days to be cast into the role
>>     of defender of ICANN against paranoia and misinformation - there
>>     are quite enough valid reasons to criticise ICANN (and the near
>>     allergic reaction to the idea of real accountability from parts
>>     of its leadership are among them) without making up conspiracies
>>     or misrepresenting its processes.
>>
>>
>> I don't see any paranoia or misinformation about ICANN in my 
>> messages. I just see a long-term understanding of how we need to 
>> reform ICANN, a healthy skepticism about CS being used (again), and a 
>> determination to take advantage of Brazil's and Fadi's wonderful 
>> initiative. I do appreciate some of the things Fadi has done. I just 
>> don't think we need to be driven by fear.
>
> Well, you did sort of imply a little I* conspiracy theory, but I'll 
> cede the point - my comments weren't aimed at you specifically, as of 
> course you do have strong understanding of ICANNs processes, though 
> you do still seem to see this through a somewhat ICANN-centric point 
> of view, which I still think is likely to not be so useful a 
> perspective ongoing. While an opportunity to discuss the IANA 
> contract, oversight of ICANN, etc is welcome, that really doesn't seem 
> to be the main focus of any of what the Brazil meeting is about, and 
> ICANNs seemingly central role might have more to do with Fadi 
> personally choosing to push the process along.
>
> Regards
>
> David

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