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<p><b><br>
</b></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">This part in addressed
to others and not Milton. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">While I request your
engagement with this debate, especially of those who have
involved themselves with the new 'digital cooperation'
governance models, I must clarify one thing. My use of
personally targeted language, if any, against Milton had only
and exceptionally to do with, and was only in response to, his
habitual way of saying things like, as he did this time, that
the other person is totally ignorant, and that signing
organisations are some fringe inconsequential organisations,
doing ideological name-calling, and so on .. Take this as a kind
of 'private thing' between Milton and me, even as we do
productively discuss very important issues, concepts and
ideas.....</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"> Let this bilateral
idiosyncrasy of ours not deter you, others, from your public
duty to engage in this very important debate, and, as and if
required, respond to important issues and questions that have
been raised here. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">If the global CS
Internet Governance Caucus were not to be discussing global
digital governance models at this critical juncture when one
such model is close to being installed, I do not know what the
IGC is doing at all. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">parminder</font><br>
</p>
<p><b><br>
</b></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/04/21 12:28 pm, parminder wrote:<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/04/21 3:55 am, Mueller, Milton
L wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Wow,
Parminder, you’re getting wordier and wordier and I am not
sure I have time to continue this, but let me provide some
parting shots before we agree to disagree and go our
separate ways…</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Dear Milton, I wont wow! you .... Words are definitionally the
body of discursive democracy. If more were needed in this case
that is for reasons that you may at least equally be responsible
for. This discussion is about what mode of global governance is
appropriate for (non CIR or non tech) digital issues. It is but
in order that key interlocutors let know what kind of model they
support and advocate in this regard. You spent a few emails to
reach there, but yes now from your last email I get a good idea
- though still quite vague. I quote from your email. <br>
</p>
<p>"<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">To
deal with these other problems (meaning, non CIR or non-tech
digital issues) we will have to come up with something new.
But, like ICANN, it should try to be global and rooted in
private law rather than in national institutions. So in my
view, that means we have to keep national governments at bay
to buy time for organic institutions to evolve."</span></p>
<p>Very interesting! You want global digital governance to be
based on private law, or, I understand, institutions built on
private law. That is a quite clear, and also an extra-ordinarily
bold, assertion. Entirely your choice to take forward or not
this important discussion on appropriate institutional models
for global digital governance, but can you please help us
understand this more. (Please do not ask me to read your book :)
) Maybe provide us the outline of how such a thing would look in
practice. It you have written about it somewhere pl give us a
link (again, pl not a whole book though.) That would be an
extremely valuable contribution to the debate, and to the very
cause of appropriate global digital governance. <br>
</p>
<p>You may please provide one clarification -- what or whose
private law should these institutions for global digital
governance be based on? US? Some other country? Or you have some
conception of global private law? <br>
</p>
<p>I also understand from the above that such a private law based
global digital governance is in your mind an interim arrangement
to 'buy time for organise institutions to evolve'. I find this
even more interesting, and genuinely so... Again your choice to
expound further what you have put across somewhat cryptically,
but can you tell us a little more about what kind of organic
institutions you have in mind even as a future possibility? Are
these too also be based on private law? Or, is this something
going towards directly elected global parliament kind of things?
I am very interesting in any and all such democratic yearnings
and projects, and we may indeed find common ground here. <br>
</p>
<p>You have ridiculed my asking for clear respective positions on
global governance models.... Well, I do not know whether you
know much about this area or not but such mutual
accountabilities and answer-abilities are at core of global and
infra-global civil society working and networking. IT for
Change, for instance has a 'your right to know' button on our
website, and we promise to respond to any question about us
within 2 weeks... This is because we use public money on public
trust, and cannot refuse to answer public questions about
ourselves. It is in the same spirit that I ask questions from
you and others in this space. <br>
</p>
<p>regards, parminder</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:BN7PR07MB46898C8273A40393FBFAFDF9A17A9@BN7PR07MB4689.namprd07.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p>Again, agree that this discussion is very important. I
would invite others closely involved with the proposal for
the new MS body for digital cooperation to please also get
involved - Such important matters need to go through the
test and fire of discursive democracy. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yep.
Yay, discursive democracy! That’s what we’re doing here,
folks. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">> </span>buckets.<span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Buckets.
Not a very cyber metaphor. Packets? Photons? Anyway….<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>therefore you really
do not approve of <span style="color:#1F497D"> [OECD] </span>You
could be clearer and more upfront about such <span
style="color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">> </span>disapproval, here<span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">And
why do I need to do that, here? I see no point in
denouncing them on public mailing lists. As I said, I
approve of their research, it’s often useful, good
economists and policy analysts live there. But I did stop
participating. These advisory committees to IGOs have very
little voice or power in these organizations. Essentially
you’re a worker for no pay. I choose to voluntarily donate
my time elsewhere. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>when pushed into an
argumentative corner,<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">That,
sir, is an excellent description of your tactics on these
email lists. But I can’t complain, I do the same thing. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>Here I will request
others who actively work with the OECD model to let us know
their views on <span style="color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>that model, clearly
and upfront. <span style="color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Parminder,
this is a mailing list of a diverse civil society
coalition, not the monthly meeting of a Trotskyite
advocacy collective. Nobody has to make their views known,
“clearly and upfront,” to pass your loyalty test. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Let’s
go back to what this disagreement was fundamentally about.
You want the internet to be controlled by sovereign
states, and I want it to be self-governing and independent
of sovereign states, insofar as that’s possible. Those are
two distinct paths for internet governance. I will fight
for its autonomy, you will fight for its subordination to
nation-states. We meet in this space because that is the
space that was set up to have those debates. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p>2 The appropriate model for global digital policy making,
as per you: You have earlier made a clear distinction
between CIR governance (ICANN etc) and governance of other
Internet/ digital issues, and rightly so. I understand that
in the latter category we can include platform governance,
data governance, AI governance etc. Right. I now understand,
though once again you state is very mutely, that you would
like to see global governance of platforms, data, AI, and
other digital issues undertaken in the same way as ICANN is
governed Right? You need to be clear and upfront about what
is the model you propose for global governance of these
non-CIR digital issues -- because that is what is at the
centre of this discussion. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Here
you make a good point, I do need to be clear about that,
as a matter of practical reality if not logical
consistency. So I stated this “very mutely,” did I? LOL!
OK, I will speak louder. Undertaken the same way as ICANN?
Depends on what you mean. You mean, organize it under
ICANN? or start with the US government and then privatize
it? No. ICANN was a governance experiment that can never
be repeated. To deal with these other problems we will
have to come up with something new. But, like ICANN, it
should try to be global and rooted in private law rather
than in national institutions. So in my view, that means
we have to keep national governments at bay to buy time
for organic institutions to evolve. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p>Milton, are you really saying we should be dealing with
various non-CIR digital public policy issues in the same
manner? Where private sector sits at the same or higher
level as governments? <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Definitely.
We need a coalition of governments, private sector and
civil society to work together in nonhierarchical forms of
cooperation, and we need to have governments refrain from
militarizing, territorializing, surveilling, censoring and
restricting cyberspace for enough time for peaceful forms
of cooperation to remain possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p>Well, I repeat, it is scandalous... <span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Parminder,
scandalizing you is what I live for. It’s the only reason
I’m on this list.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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