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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/04/21 3:55 am, Mueller, Milton L
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Wow,
Parminder, you’re getting wordier and wordier and I am not
sure I have time to continue this, but let me provide some
parting shots before we agree to disagree and go our
separate ways…</span></p>
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</blockquote>
<p>Dear Milton, I wont wow! you .... Words are definitionally the
body of discursive democracy. If more were needed in this case
that is for reasons that you may at least equally be responsible
for. This discussion is about what mode of global governance is
appropriate for (non CIR or non tech) digital issues. It is but in
order that key interlocutors let know what kind of model they
support and advocate in this regard. You spent a few emails to
reach there, but yes now from your last email I get a good idea -
though still quite vague. I quote from your email. <br>
</p>
<p>"<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">To
deal with these other problems (meaning, non CIR or non-tech
digital issues) we will have to come up with something new. But,
like ICANN, it should try to be global and rooted in private law
rather than in national institutions. So in my view, that means
we have to keep national governments at bay to buy time for
organic institutions to evolve."</span></p>
<p>Very interesting! You want global digital governance to be based
on private law, or, I understand, institutions built on private
law. That is a quite clear, and also an extra-ordinarily bold,
assertion. Entirely your choice to take forward or not this
important discussion on appropriate institutional models for
global digital governance, but can you please help us understand
this more. (Please do not ask me to read your book :) ) Maybe
provide us the outline of how such a thing would look in practice.
It you have written about it somewhere pl give us a link (again,
pl not a whole book though.) That would be an extremely valuable
contribution to the debate, and to the very cause of appropriate
global digital governance. <br>
</p>
<p>You may please provide one clarification -- what or whose private
law should these institutions for global digital governance be
based on? US? Some other country? Or you have some conception of
global private law? <br>
</p>
<p>I also understand from the above that such a private law based
global digital governance is in your mind an interim arrangement
to 'buy time for organise institutions to evolve'. I find this
even more interesting, and genuinely so... Again your choice to
expound further what you have put across somewhat cryptically, but
can you tell us a little more about what kind of organic
institutions you have in mind even as a future possibility? Are
these too also be based on private law? Or, is this something
going towards directly elected global parliament kind of things? I
am very interesting in any and all such democratic yearnings and
projects, and we may indeed find common ground here. <br>
</p>
<p>You have ridiculed my asking for clear respective positions on
global governance models.... Well, I do not know whether you know
much about this area or not but such mutual accountabilities and
answer-abilities are at core of global and infra-global civil
society working and networking. IT for Change, for instance has a
'your right to know' button on our website, and we promise to
respond to any question about us within 2 weeks... This is because
we use public money on public trust, and cannot refuse to answer
public questions about ourselves. It is in the same spirit that I
ask questions from you and others in this space. <br>
</p>
<p>regards, parminder</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:BN7PR07MB46898C8273A40393FBFAFDF9A17A9@BN7PR07MB4689.namprd07.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p>Again, agree that this discussion is very important. I would
invite others closely involved with the proposal for the new
MS body for digital cooperation to please also get involved -
Such important matters need to go through the test and fire of
discursive democracy. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yep.
Yay, discursive democracy! That’s what we’re doing here,
folks.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">> </span>buckets.<span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Buckets.
Not a very cyber metaphor. Packets? Photons? Anyway….<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>therefore you really
do not approve of <span style="color:#1F497D">
[OECD] </span>You could be clearer and more upfront about
such <span style="color:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">> </span>disapproval, here<span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">And
why do I need to do that, here? I see no point in denouncing
them on public mailing lists. As I said, I approve of their
research, it’s often useful, good economists and policy
analysts live there. But I did stop participating. These
advisory committees to IGOs have very little voice or power
in these organizations. Essentially you’re a worker for no
pay. I choose to voluntarily donate my time elsewhere.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>when pushed into an
argumentative corner,<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">That,
sir, is an excellent description of your tactics on these
email lists. But I can’t complain, I do the same thing.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>Here I will request
others who actively work with the OECD model to let us know
their views on
<span style="color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>that model, clearly
and upfront. <span style="color:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Parminder,
this is a mailing list of a diverse civil society coalition,
not the monthly meeting of a Trotskyite advocacy collective.
Nobody has to make their views known, “clearly and upfront,”
to pass your loyalty test. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Let’s
go back to what this disagreement was fundamentally about.
You want the internet to be controlled by sovereign states,
and I want it to be self-governing and independent of
sovereign states, insofar as that’s possible. Those are two
distinct paths for internet governance. I will fight for its
autonomy, you will fight for its subordination to
nation-states. We meet in this space because that is the
space that was set up to have those debates. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p>2 The appropriate model for global digital policy making, as
per you: You have earlier made a clear distinction between CIR
governance (ICANN etc) and governance of other Internet/
digital issues, and rightly so. I understand that in the
latter category we can include platform governance, data
governance, AI governance etc. Right. I now understand, though
once again you state is very mutely, that you would like to
see global governance of platforms, data, AI, and other
digital issues undertaken in the same way as ICANN is governed
Right? You need to be clear and upfront about what is the
model you propose for global governance of these non-CIR
digital issues -- because that is what is at the centre of
this discussion.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Here
you make a good point, I do need to be clear about that, as
a matter of practical reality if not logical consistency. So
I stated this “very mutely,” did I? LOL! OK, I will speak
louder. Undertaken the same way as ICANN? Depends on what
you mean. You mean, organize it under ICANN? or start with
the US government and then privatize it? No. ICANN was a
governance experiment that can never be repeated. To deal
with these other problems we will have to come up with
something new. But, like ICANN, it should try to be global
and rooted in private law rather than in national
institutions. So in my view, that means we have to keep
national governments at bay to buy time for organic
institutions to evolve. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p>Milton, are you really saying we should be dealing with
various non-CIR digital public policy issues in the same
manner? Where private sector sits at the same or higher level
as governments?
<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Definitely.
We need a coalition of governments, private sector and civil
society to work together in nonhierarchical forms of
cooperation, and we need to have governments refrain from
militarizing, territorializing, surveilling, censoring and
restricting cyberspace for enough time for peaceful forms of
cooperation to remain possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p>Well, I repeat, it is scandalous... <span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:120%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Parminder,
scandalizing you is what I live for. It’s the only reason
I’m on this list.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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