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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/12/19 2:17 AM, Ayden Férdeline
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:NK8b4WPpUGO3Ho52Q5LfpdymdJ3t9H8B6m9v7pSOvMuzN-wcXFah6HM4yuYdEqHHRfWjWizbo_lglwP5CmrWlFHYAvfcLxbSIASnNkM9U-4=@ferdeline.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div>Thank you Imran, I do appreciate your edits, comments, and
questions.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's not that I am comfortable with this deal. I suspect it
will be a disaster.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I just do not believe we will be able to persuade ISOC to
change its decision here.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>And, Aydene, you really think that there is not already an
agreement/ understanding between Ethos and ISOC about what status
PIR will change to, and the bid amount contingent upon it? <br>
</p>
<p>At such crunch times civil society groups need to go by
principles, not by the always sliding scales of pragmatism. It is
true that civil society groups are not often listened to, but they
will be listened to even less if they keep catering to
(artificially created) concerns of immediate plausibility against
principles. <br>
</p>
<p>We should just put forward a 'no sale' demand -- it is up to
'them' to heed it fully, half-way (for instance the benefit corp
route), or not at all..</p>
<p>parminder <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:NK8b4WPpUGO3Ho52Q5LfpdymdJ3t9H8B6m9v7pSOvMuzN-wcXFah6HM4yuYdEqHHRfWjWizbo_lglwP5CmrWlFHYAvfcLxbSIASnNkM9U-4=@ferdeline.com">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>All of the comments that I have seen individual ISOC Trustees
make indicate a low level of understanding of the difference
between a non-profit entity and a for-profit entity.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>They see PIR as an asset to be sold, like an office building,
and believe the financial sustainability of ISOC is more
important than meeting the public interest elements of their
charter.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I also see a deep belief in technological determinism in many
of their comments.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So I was trying to be as pragmatic as possible in what I was
proposing.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If this deal is happening, and ISOC doesn't seem to be
backing down (nor in their evaluation do they believe criticism
is sincerely held by anyone but a small number of individuals),
then I think we need to put pressure on the Board to condition
the sale on there being certain protections in place for
registrants.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>PIR is transitioning into a for-profit company. I think that
ISOC may have already petitioned the Orphans Court in
Pennsylvania for this to happen. Ethos Capital will have a
fiduciary duty to its shareholders, and it will be required to
increase wholesale costs on .ORG domain names to fulfil that
obligation. While their CEO has said they have no intention of
operating PIR differently going forward, this is not consistent
with his fiduciary duty. His role is to maximize shareholder
value for Ethos Capital and act in the best interest of the
corporation – not .ORG registrants.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The only way we can be assured that they consider more than
just the fiduciary interests of the corporation is to have PIR
incorporated as a real benefit corporation (NOT a B Lab B
Certification, which is what we are being offered at the
moment). I think that is the best thing we can ask for at
present.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If PIR is a benefit corporation, this cannot be reversed,
even if PIR is subsequently sold by Ethos Capital, and so we
have long-term assurances that PIR will be legally obliged to
consider societal impacts as well as fiduciary ones. But a B Lab
B Certification can be dropped at any time if Ethos Capital so
desires.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>ISOC's Board does not seem willing to rise to the occasion
and to consider what is in the interests of the broader
non-profit, non-governmental organization, and non-commercial
communities. The Board is not in listening mode, they are just
being defensive. I don't see that changing unfortunately, and I
see no way to compel ISOC to listen to us. It is not a
membership-based organization, it is essentially an independent
trust. There are serious governance deficiencies that we need to
attempt to address there in the future, particularly as the
organization absorbs $1.135 billion. But the Board wants the
money, and unless someone else steps forward offering more, they
seem unwilling to change their mind.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If that's the case, I regretfully feel like we have to ask
for what little we can get in order to try to minimize the harm
that is likely to accrue to .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG registrants.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best wishes,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ayden Férdeline<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div class="protonmail_signature_block">
<div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton
protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐<br>
</div>
<div> On Friday, 6 December 2019 13:17, Imran Ahmed Shah
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net"><governance@lists.riseup.net></a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Dear Sheetal, <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I agree with the Ian Peter.
We needs the point to weigh-in our statement.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I have some queries,
suggestions and recommendations on the initial draft of
Ayden and copying hereunder. <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span>Few comments:</span><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span></span><span><span><span></span>I
think </span>we should not evaluate Public Interest
in terms of Money.... in any case...</span><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">We should not to be
more concerned with the financial figures. <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Perhaps, we may be
concerned if it is being discussed in reference of the
ICANN's decision and reasoning behind handing over the
dotOrg to ISOC 'to support recurring expenses etc.'..
and now, if the ISOC has gotten enough
benefits out of it,......dotORG should have to be
returned to ICANN, so that ICANN can handover to
some other similar not-for-profit trustworthy, credible
organizations working for Public Interests, having the
capacity to over see the Internet in Public domain and
public interest.... to
benefit next one after ISOC.... <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Secondly, our goal is
the protection of dotOrg from going it into the hand of
commercial and
nonpublic interest companies even if they could be able
to recruiting, the hundreds
of the CS members or can <span>employee (or buy in some
in-kind trade) </span>..to address public interests
to claim.some kind of <span>notional support board.</span>.. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span>I also suggest to
create etherpad document... just created with the points
shared by you... <a
href="https://pad.riseup.net/p/IGConPIRv0NiRaxk3qi-keep"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://pad.riseup.net/p/IGConPIRv0NiRaxk3qi-keep</a></span><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">
<div><span>= = = = <span><span>= = =</span></span></span><span><span>
= = = =</span></span><span><span><span> = = = = <span>
<span>= = = = <span><span>= = =</span></span></span><span><span>
= = = =</span></span><span><span><span> = = =
=</span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span><span></span></span><span></span><br>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> <i><span
style="color:black">To: Gonzalo Camarillo,
Chair of the Board of Trustees, Internet Society</span></i><span
style="font-size:12pt"></span><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">
<div>
<p
style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span
style="font-size:12pt"></span><i><span
style="color:black">As members of a network
which encompasses many non-commercial organizations
and public interest
technologists, we are concerned by the announcement
that Ethos Capital is
acquiring the assets of the Public Interest Registry
(PIR) from the Internet
Society (ISOC), including the .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG
Registry Agreements. </span></i><span
style="font-size:12pt"></span><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><i><span
style="color:black">Principally, we are
concerned that the sale of PIR to a private entity
will significantly alter the
Domain Name System and weaken ISOC. PIR played an
important role, as the only
remaining non-commercial top-level domain registry
operator, in serving as a
counterbalance against commercial exploitation. PIR
ran .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG
for the benefit of its users, whereas other
top-level domains are run by
private companies with purely financial objectives.
While the interests of
companies and users do at times overlap, they can
also conflict, and when this
occurs there are significant human rights
implications. PIR, as a subsidiary of
ISOC, could be relied upon to do what was best for
domain name registrants, and
has a proud history of doing just that. However, PIR
also gave ISOC legitimacy
and influence. It allowed ISOC to take an active
role in shaping Internet
infrastructure </span></i><i><span
style="color:red">[IAS:
suggest to add here… “keeping the Public Interest
Intact”]</span></i><i><span style="color:black">. In
relinquishing its control
over PIR, ISOC loses its ability to directly impact
how millions of people
around the world positively experience the Internet
every day, and we think
that is a great pity.</span></i><span
style="font-size:12pt"></span><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><i><span
style="color:black">This is a significant
change, for ISOC and for the Internet community, and
we are not yet satisfied
that there are appropriate safeguards in place to
protect the interests of
.ORG, .NGO, and .ONG registrants and the people who
visit their websites every
day. <u>You have the ability to put requests to
Ethos Capital and to call this
deal off if appropriate and binding safeguards
cannot be put in place</u></span></i><i><span
style="color:rgb(255, 192, 0)">.</span></i><i><span
style="color:black"> </span></i><i><span
style="color:red">[IAS: it very polite, humble
request
or perhaps diplomatic sentence/phrase. Which will
result a simple answer “thanks
for your deep concerns but we do not feel it
appropriate at this stage the take
the deal off”, the same I have listen from ICANN
Chair in 2009]</span></i><i><span
style="color:black"> We encourage you to do just
that.</span></i><i><span style="color:red"> [IAS:
What to do, to stop the deal
or what is appropriate? Need to change this sentence
and to be specific result
that we are recommending or demanding] </span></i><i><span
style="color:black">As a sign of good faith, we ask
that ISOC have Ethos Capital
commit to incorporating PIR as a benefit
corporation. </span></i><i><span style="color:red">[IAS:
again we are allowing them to
proceed with the deal and seeking the alteration of
the terms, rules/bylaws and
commitment of a commercial entity to keep this
public interest entity protected
as a benefit organization…? Secondly, believing and
understanding that the Investor
“Ethos Capital” has invested the PIR to convert in
B-Corp/ commercial entity
how we assume that he will be accepting when he has
investing billions..] </span></i><i><span
style="color:black">We understand that Ethos Capital
has said they are evaluating becoming a B Lab B
Corp, but this is not the same
thing as a benefit corporation and is instead a
non-binding certification. </span></i><i><span
style="color:red">[IAS: I suggest that we should use
it as a proof that Ethos Capital has intention to
transform the public interest
entity into a B-Corp/ commercial entity. In the same
context, we should ask ‘the
Board’ that is this ‘intention’ was in their
knowledge or in the knowledge of decision
maker bodies that this faith base public interest
entity will be commercialized
by the new investor? If, yes, how they accepted it?]</span></i><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><i><u><span
style="color:black">Large
parts of the world</span></u></i><i><span
style="color:black"> </span></i><i><span
style="color:red">[IAS: I suggest that here we have
to
use other terms which has higher weightage
(weigh-in); e.g. one of the ISOC/PIR
representative has responded like this “the
objections are not reported from
the majority of users, which means the majority of
the users has no concern who
is running the registry”]</span></i><i><span
style="color:black"> are uncomfortable with the
Internet being governed entirely by
commercial interests, and <u>many of our members</u>
</span></i><i><span style="color:red">[IAS: I suggest
that we have to elaborate
“the members”, e.g IGC Members, IGC coalition
Partners or perhaps including CSCG] </span></i><i><span
style="color:black">are
deeply uncomfortable with PIR being sold at all.
However, incorporation as a
benefit corporation could provide a sturdier path
forward if ISOC does proceed
to sell the assets of PIR, and could be </span></i><i><span
style="color:red">[IAS: I suggest rephrase “Could
have been assured”] </span></i><i><span
style="color:black">an effective means of mitigating
against some of the risks that we can foresee
emerging from this sale. A
benefit corporation in the right jurisdiction would
require the publication of
comprehensive, credible, independent, and
transparent annual reports on social
impact and, most importantly, require the
organization to consider benefits to
the public in addition to profit when decisions are
being made. And, it would
oblige Ethos Capital to honor the promises and
commitments it is making today.</span></i><span
style="font-size:12pt"></span><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><i><span
style="color:black">We trust that you
understand why this is important to us. Ethos
Capital is an unknown entity, and
in the absence of clear information about their
motives behind acquiring PIR
and their sales pitch to investors, the non-profit
and non-governmental
communities require assurances that the future of
the .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG
domain names that we use for our email, websites,
campaigns, and fundraising
efforts are in safe hands. </span></i><i><span
style="color:red">[IAS: I suggest add these lines
here “Our Data & Privacy is not
being compromised, shared, observed, monitored are
not shared or sold to the competitors
(right now during transition or) in future by the
Registry, or partner
commercial/ noncommercial entities”] </span></i><i><span
style="color:black">These are more than just
domains, they are symbols of our desire
to do good.</span></i><span style="font-size:12pt"></span><br>
</p>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span><span>= = =
= <span><span>= = =</span></span></span><span><span>
= = = =</span></span><span><span><span> = = = =
</span></span></span></span><span> <span>= = =
= <span><span>= = =</span></span></span><span><span>
= = = =</span></span><span><span><span> = = = =
</span></span></span></span><span> <span>= = =
= <span><span>= = =</span></span></span><span><span>
= = = =</span></span><span><span><span> = = = =
</span></span></span></span><span> <span>= = =
= <span><span>= = =</span></span></span><span><span>
= = = =</span></span><span><span><span> = = = =
</span></span></span></span> </span><br>
</div>
<p><i><span style="color:red">[IAS: I
also have few more concerns:</span></i><br>
</p>
<p><i><span style="color:red"><span>1.<span
style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:7pt"> </span></span></span></span></i><span
dir="LTR"></span><i><span style="color:red">Needs
transparency and disclosure of
the followings (to re-establish of the trust being
shacked):</span></i><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><i><span style="color:red"><span>i.<span
style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:7pt"> </span></span></span></span></i><span
dir="LTR"></span><i><span style="color:red">the
reasoning behind the selling PIR
‘out of the way’ (as apparently seems to me)?,</span></i><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><i><span style="color:red"><span>ii.<span
style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:7pt"> </span></span></span></span></i><span
dir="LTR"></span><i><span style="color:red">the
reasoning behind the avoidance
of engaging a proper bidding?,</span></i><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><i><span style="color:red"><span>iii.<span
style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:7pt"> </span></span></span></span></i><span
dir="LTR"></span><i><span style="color:red">the
reasoning to giving sole power
of decision of sales without the evaluation through
open competition and
opening comments to sell or not?,</span></i><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><i><span style="color:red"><span>iv.<span
style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:7pt"> </span></span></span></span></i><span
dir="LTR"></span><i><span style="color:red">the
information of intention disclosure
regarding the commercialization aspect or
transformation of PIR to B-Corp, when
it came in to the knowledge of the selling bodies
(prior/during/post sales
agreement).</span></i><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><i><span style="color:red"><span>v.<span
style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:7pt"> </span></span></span></span></i><span
dir="LTR"></span><i><span style="color:red">Technical
Terms and basis of the Technical
Evaluations of the Investor Ability, Capability,
Credibility, Dependability.</span></i><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><i><span style="color:red"><span>vi.<span
style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:7pt"> </span></span></span></span></i><span
dir="LTR"></span><i><span style="color:red">Safeguards
evaluated in terms of
Public Interest, Faith, Data Protection, Privacy,
Security evaluated before
making the decision of sales of PIR (.ORG/.NGO/.ONG)</span></i><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left:72.0pt;mso-add-space:auto"><i><span
style="color:red"> </span></i><br>
</p>
<p><i><span style="color:red"><span>2.<span
style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:7pt"> </span></span></span></span></i><span
dir="LTR"></span><i><span style="color:red">I would
suggest that the statement
should be in the following format:</span></i><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="color:rgb(112,
48, 160)">Preamble</span><span style="color:rgb(112,
48, 160)">/</span><span style="color:rgb(112, 48,
160)">Preface paragraph:</span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="color:rgb(112,
48, 160)">Objection/Obligation/Concerns</span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="color:rgb(112,
48, 160)">What we demand:</span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(112, 48, 160)">Our First Requirement
is:</span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="color:rgb(112,
48, 160)">Requirement of Information (e.g
Transparency, Disclosure of
deal/ agreement/ technical/ functional/ organizational
structural design/basis/planning)</span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
style="color:rgb(112, 48, 160)">Our Second Requirement
is:</span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left: 90pt;"><span style="color:rgb(112,
48, 160)"><span>A.<span style="font-family:Times New
Roman"><span style="font-size:7pt"> </span></span></span></span><span
dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:rgb(112, 48, 160)">The
above facts and figures demand you to stop/end-up the
due diligence
process and stop the deal.</span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left:90.0pt;mso-add-space:auto"><span
style="color:rgb(112, 48, 160)">If the efforts for A
are
convincingly & persuasively exercised and but
could not achieving required
goal-A, we recommends to achieve minimal goal-B after
the adoption of above….</span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left: 90pt;"><span style="color:rgb(112,
48, 160)"><span>B.<span style="font-family:Times New
Roman"><span style="font-size:7pt"> </span></span></span></span><span
dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:rgb(112, 48, 160)">What
we need if the Sales Deal is accomplished, i.e. ensure
the commitment</span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left: 126pt;"><span style="color:rgb(112,
48, 160)"><span>a.<span style="font-family:Times New
Roman"><span style="font-size:7pt"> </span></span></span></span><span
dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:rgb(112, 48, 160)">Immediate
commitment (prior to sale),</span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left: 126pt;"><span style="color:rgb(112,
48, 160)"><span>b.<span style="font-family:Times New
Roman"><span style="font-size:7pt"> </span></span></span></span><span
dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:rgb(112, 48, 160)">long
term commitment (after sales),</span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left:126.0pt;mso-add-space:auto"><i><span
style="color:red">(by the way I am not
convinced that a commercial organization remains
commitment for public interest
for long term benefits. Maximum commitments one can
expect is just for 2-3
years not beyond. Secondly, if the Ethos Capital
sales this entity to any other
commercial entity after changing its status to
B-Corp, where the agreements with
ISOC stands?)</span></i><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> = = = = = = =<span> <span>=
= = = <span><span>= = =</span></span></span><span><span>
= = = =</span></span><span><span><span> = = = = </span></span></span></span><span>
<span>= = = = <span><span>= = =</span></span></span><span><span>
= = = =</span></span><span><span><span> = = = = </span></span></span></span><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Best Regards<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Imran Ahmed Shah<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">[TLDians/UISoc/UiCouncil]<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div>On Friday, 6 December 2019, 01:13:59 GMT+5, Ian Peter
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com"><ian.peter@ianpeter.com></a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>I agree approach and basic points Sheetal - but I
would drop the human rights clause because it is
contentious and does not add great value to the
strong basic argument.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ian<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>------ Original Message ------<br>
</div>
<div>From: "Sheetal Kumar" <<a shape="rect"
href="mailto:sheetal@gp-digital.org"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">sheetal@gp-digital.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div>To: "parminder" <<a shape="rect"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">parminder@itforchange.net</a>><br>
</div>
<div>Cc: "governance" <<a shape="rect"
href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">governance@lists.riseup.net</a>><br>
</div>
<div>Sent: 6/12/2019 6:48:38 AM<br>
</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [governance] Proposed statement on
.ORG sale<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear Ayden, Parminder, all, <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>First, thank you very much Ayden for
putting this together! I appreciate the
attempt to reconcile opposing views, which
are clearly present in the IGC. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would just say that we have heard from
very few others on this list. This may be
for any number of reasons, and we could do a
poll if its helpful to gather views,
including whether people feel they need more
information to be able to weigh in. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To move forward, if we can agree on the
following key points that we need to get
across, we can work together on
editing/finalising text. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Short of a poll, if everyone could
weigh-in on whether they agree on these
points that would be helpful. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<ul>
<li>There is a need for greater transparency
about the terms of the sale<br>
</li>
<li>There are potential implications for
human rights if the sale goes through
(need to list/clearly enumerate these)<br>
</li>
<li>As a result, many members of IGC align
themselves with the statements from EFF
and Access Now and the call for an
outright halt to the sale.<br>
</li>
<li>At a minimum, all IGC members agree
there is a need for greater transparency
regarding the terms and potential
implications of this sale, and that there
are appropriate safeguards in place to
protect the interests of .ORG, .NGO, and
.ONG registrants and the people who visit
their websites every day<br>
</li>
</ul>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's difficult to get consensus at best
of times, but this is a tricky issue and if
we want to put forward something together we
might need to go with what we can all agree
on at a top-level. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I look forward to hearing from a
wide-range of people, and if anyone has
alternative ideas please let us know.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best<br>
</div>
<div>Sheetal<br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 at 08:12,
parminder <<a shape="rect"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
<div>
<p><span style="font-family:Verdana">thanks
for this effort Ayden</span><br>
</p>
<p><span style="font-family:Verdana">But
when there is such a strong 'stop the
sale' movement out there, it will be
embarrassing for the IG related civil
society groups to say, well, at least
let Ethos now behave when ISOC did not
.... Why ask Ethos to set PIR as a
benefit corporation (which they will
certainly not) when the existing
arrangement (since the sale is not
through) is itself more satisfactory?
Why not ask for status quo and
stopping the sale?</span><br>
</p>
<p><span style="font-family:Verdana">parminder
</span><br>
</p>
<div>On 04/12/19 6:01 PM, Ayden Férdeline
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Dear all,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have a new proposed statement
that I hope we may consider issuing.
Please see below. I have used
Sheetal's language as a starting point
(thank you!) but I am afraid I did
change the messaging quite a bit. This
is just a suggestion and please do
feel free to edit it to pieces. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Like Brett, I too would prefer we
advocate for stopping the sale
altogether, but in the spirit of
compromise and given a number of posts
on this list that seem supportive of
the sale, I've tried a different
approach here. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks and best wishes,<br>
</div>
<div>Ayden Férdeline<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="background-color:transparent"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"><i><span
style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt">To:</span></span></i></span></span><span
style="background-color:transparent"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"><i><span
style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></i></span></span><span
style="background-color:transparent"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"><i><span
style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt">Gonzalo
Camarillo, Chair of the
Board of Trustees, Internet
Society</span></span></i></span></span><br>
</p>
<div><br>
</div>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="background-color:transparent"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"><span
style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt"><i>As
members of a network which
encompasses many
non-commercial organizations
and public interest
technologists, we are
concerned by the
announcement that Ethos
Capital is acquiring the
assets of the Public
Interest Registry (PIR) from
the Internet Society (ISOC),
including the .ORG, .NGO,
and .ONG Registry
Agreements. </i></span></span></span></span><br>
</p>
<div><br>
</div>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="background-color:transparent"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"><span
style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt"><i>Principally,
we are concerned that the
sale of PIR to a private
entity will significantly
alter the Domain Name System
and weaken ISOC. PIR played
an important role, as the
only remaining
non-commercial top-level
domain registry operator, in
serving as a counterbalance
against commercial
exploitation. PIR ran .ORG,
.NGO, and .ONG for the
benefit of its users,
whereas other top-level
domains are run by private
companies with purely
financial objectives. While
the interests of companies
and users do at times
overlap, they can also
conflict, and when this
occurs there are significant
human rights implications.
PIR, as a subsidiary of
ISOC, could be relied upon
to do what was best for
domain name registrants, and
has a proud history of doing
just that. However, PIR also
gave ISOC legitimacy and
influence. It allowed ISOC
to take an active role in
shaping Internet
infrastructure. In
relinquishing its control
over PIR, ISOC loses its
ability to directly impact
how millions of people
around the world positively
experience the Internet
every day, and we think that
is a great pity.</i></span></span></span></span><br>
</p>
<div><br>
</div>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="background-color:transparent"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"><span
style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt"><i>This
is a significant change, for
ISOC and for the Internet
community, and we are not
yet satisfied that there are
appropriate safeguards in
place to protect the
interests of .ORG, .NGO, and
.ONG registrants and the
people who visit their
websites every day. You have
the ability to put requests
to Ethos Capital and to call
this deal off if appropriate
and binding safeguards
cannot be put in place. We
encourage you to do just
that. As a sign of good
faith, we ask that ISOC have
Ethos Capital commit to
incorporating PIR as a
benefit corporation. We
understand that Ethos
Capital has said they are
evaluating becoming a B Lab
B Corp, but this is not the
same thing as a benefit
corporation and is instead a
non-binding certification. </i></span></span></span></span><br>
</p>
<div><br>
</div>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="background-color:transparent"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"><span
style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt"><i>Large
parts of the world are
uncomfortable with the
Internet being governed
entirely by commercial
interests, and many of our
members are deeply
uncomfortable with PIR being
sold at all. However,
incorporation as a benefit
corporation could provide a
sturdier path forward if
ISOC does proceed to sell
the assets of PIR, and could
be an effective means of
mitigating against some of
the risks that we can
foresee emerging from this
sale. A benefit corporation
in the right jurisdiction
would require the
publication of
comprehensive, credible,
independent, and transparent
annual reports on social
impact and, most
importantly, require the
organization to consider
benefits to the public in
addition to profit when
decisions are being made.
And, it would oblige Ethos
Capital to honor the
promises and commitments it
is making today.</i></span></span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="background-color:transparent"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"><span
style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt"><i> </i></span></span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="background-color:transparent"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"><span
style="font-family:Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt"><i>We
trust that you understand
why this is important to us.
Ethos Capital is an unknown
entity, and in the absence
of clear information about
their motives behind
acquiring PIR and their
sales pitch to investors,
the non-profit and
non-governmental communities
require assurances that the
future of the .ORG, .NGO,
and .ONG domain names that
we use for our email,
websites, campaigns, and
fundraising efforts are in
safe hands. These are more
than just domains, they are
symbols of our desire to do
good.</i></span></span></span></span><br>
</p>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐<br>
</div>
<div>On Sunday, 1 December 2019 17:44,
Sheetal Kumar <a shape="rect"
href="mailto:sheetal@gp-digital.org"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><sheetal@gp-digital.org></a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear Ayden, all, <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for your responses! It
seems to me that if we're going to
agree on anything, it's the lack
of transparency that we can agree
needs to be rectified. I've
slightly reworded the below in
light of the recent suggestions
and remarks.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What do others think about
Sylvain's suggestions of asking
about setting up a commons PIR (is
this possible/feasible?) and of
sending this also to ISOC's BoT
and CEO? Do you have any others? <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><span></span><br>
</div>
<div><i>As members of a network
which encompasses many
non-commercial organisations,
we are concerned about the
lack of transparency regarding
the sale of .ORG. When the
board discusses the sale of
.org, we request that these
questions are considered in
the due diligence process: </i><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i>- What does the Board
intend to do in order to
protect the existing millions
of .ORG registrants?<br
clear="none">
- After the changes to the
.ORG contract to preserve
existing rights of .ORG
registrants, how else does the
Board intend to ensure the
sale of PIR (this new steward
of .org) will act on behalf of
the public interest and the
world community of
noncommercial, civil society
groups in the world?<br
clear="none">
- What are ICANN's obligation
to protect those organizations
engaged in missions of "public
interest around the world?" <br
clear="none">
<span>- How does the Board
respond to
allegations/concerns
regarding possible conflict
of interest in transference
of stewardship to Ethos
capital?</span></i></div>
<div><i><span></span></i><br>
</div>
<div><i><span>We request answers
to these questions in the
spirit of building trust
among NGOs and the
non-commercial constituency
more generally and those who
play a key role in
stewarding the Internet.</span></i><br>
</div>
<div><span></span><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Sat, 30 Nov 2019
at 17:58, Ayden Férdeline <<a
shape="rect"
href="mailto:ayden@ferdeline.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ayden@ferdeline.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
<div>While I agree these are
questions for the ISOC Board of
Trustees, I believe they are
*also* questions for the ICANN
Board. I expect that the ICANN
Board will not respond to them,
but I think they could - and
should - and I encourage us to
place pressure on both parties
to take these questions and the
sentiments behind them
seriously.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>ICANN, in particular, does
need to address at least the
perception that there is a
revolving door of insiders who
are behind this and other deals.
And ISOC needs to be more
transparent about what due
diligence it did before entering
into the arrangement to sell
PIR, and what mechanisms it has
put in place (if any) to protect
.ORG, .NGO, and .ONG
registrants. Thanks.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best wishes, Ayden Férdeline<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐<br>
</div>
<div>On Saturday, 30 November 2019
13:34, James Gannon <<a
shape="rect"
href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>These are questions for the
ISOC Board not the ICANN
board.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my
iPhone<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 30 Nov 2019, at
13:09, Sheetal Kumar <<a
shape="rect"
href="mailto:sheetal@gp-digital.org"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">sheetal@gp-digital.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear all, <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What do people think
about sending a letter
to the ICANN Board with
a series of questions in
order to get more
transparency? Bruna and
I discussed this, and
chatted to others, and
are wondering what you
think of this approach.
As the Board will meet
and discuss the sale as
part of a due diligence
process, we thought it
might be a constructive
approach to request they
consider and answer
certain questions. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It would be great to
hear your views on this
approach and on the
questions. See below: <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><span></span><br>
</div>
<div><i>When the board
discusses the sale
of .org, we request
that these questions
are considered in
the due diligence
process: </i><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i>- What does the
Board intend to do
in order to protect
the existing
millions of .ORG
registrants?<br
clear="none">
- After the changes
to the .ORG contract
to preserve existing
rights of .ORG
registrants, how
else does the Board
intend to ensure the
sale of PIR (this
new steward of .org)
will act on behalf
of the public
interest and the
world community of
noncommercial, civil
society groups in
the world?<br
clear="none">
- What's ICANN's
obligation to
protect those
organizations
engaged in missions
of "public interest
around the world?" <br
clear="none">
<span>- How does the
Board respond to
allegations/concerns
regarding possible
conflict of
interest in
transference of
stewardship to
Ethos capital</span></i></div>
<div><span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span>Best</span><br>
</div>
<div><span>Sheetal</span><i><span></span></i><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Fri, 29
Nov 2019 at 02:36,
Sylvain Baya <<a
shape="rect"
href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">governance@lists.riseup.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
<div>Hi all,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Le jeudi 28
novembre 2019, Bill
Woodcock <<a
shape="rect"
href="mailto:woody@pch.net"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">woody@pch.net</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
<div>> they can
(even without
sourcing their
affirmation) then
note that the<br>
</div>
<div>> minority of
*non-commercial* [1]
Internet Community
is about to be
*eliminated* by
their<br>
</div>
<div>> 'well
intended' *big
deal*.<br>
</div>
<div>> <br>
</div>
<div>> Why ?<br>
</div>
<div>> ...i guess
that 1% of 10M
(domain names)
+=> the
non-commercial [1]
world is under<br>
</div>
<div>> the pressure
of commercial world
in the Internet,
even in .ORG
registrations they
are<br>
</div>
<div>> still
oppressed by 99% of
10M<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>None of the above
parses. Please try
again, with simpler
construction. You
can break it out
into as many
sentences as you
like, but please try
to make each one
encapsulate exactly
one thought. Else
nobody is going to
be able to engage in
a constructive
conversation with
you.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...what's the point
please, dear Bill ?<br>
</div>
<div>Do you really want
to convince me without
argumenting ?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Shalom,<br>
</div>
<div>--sb.<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
-Bill<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span></span><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><span></span><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">--<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span
style="font-size:10px">Best
Regards
!
</span><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-size:10px">baya.sylvain
[AT cmNOG DOT
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style="color:rgb(102,
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style="font-family:verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10px">Second
Home, 68-80
Hanbury
Street,
London, E1 5JL</span></span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="color:rgb(102,
102, 102)"><span
style="font-family:verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10px">T: +44
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