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</head><body><p>+1. The sale should be cancelled. One cannot sell that which does not belong to you.</p><p>CW</p><blockquote type="cite">El 6 de diciembre de 2019 a las 20:33 Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> escribió: <br> <br>I agree with Brett, there’s no reason to lead with a compromise. <br> <br><div dir="ltr"> <div> -Bill</div><div><br></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Dec 6, 2019, at 14:35, Brett Solomon <brett@accessnow.org> wrote: <br> <br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="color: #000000; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">Thanks Sheetal for trying to coral us into agreement. I appreciate the work done on the draft letter and I am also keen to get it out. I think our best bet is to keep things short, simple - and to the point. The conference call yesterday only strengthened our resolve against the proposed deal, as the key actors offered little beyond platitudes and soothing promises to look into our questions at some further date. It also reinforced the inside nature of the agreement between a group of (largely) men who are working on this billion dollar plus sale. </span></span></p><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="color: #000000; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></p><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="color: #000000; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">The urgency and opposition that is felt among many in the community will not be met with ideas like well-intentioned Bcorps and the like. We need to be thinking about the future of .ORG in 2025 and what this proposed sale will enable once PIR is onsold to the next highest bidder.</span></span></p><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br></span><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="color: #000000; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">To your four points:</span></span></p><ul style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><li style="list-style-type: disc; color: #500050; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre; margin-left: 11pt;"><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 12pt; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"> There is a need for greater transparency about the terms of the sale</span></span></p></li></ul><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="color: #000000; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">AGREED - all ISOC deliberations and materials concerning the sale, including other bids, should be made immediately public. Nothing should proceed without this information.</span></span></p><ul style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><li style="list-style-type: disc; color: #500050; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre; margin-left: 11pt;"><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 12pt; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">There are potential implications for human rights if the sale goes through (need to list/clearly enumerate these)</span></span></p></li></ul><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="color: #000000; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">AGREED - I think we should definitely reference the human rights implications of a public interest registry transferring to a for-profit venture capital firm. The knock-on effects of having to pay up or abandon our digital domiciles, in addition to the potential privacy and data protection, freedom of expression, and freedom of association impacts, merit further consideration and inquiry. It would be remiss not to mention this.</span></span></p><ul style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><li style="list-style-type: disc; color: #500050; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre; margin-left: 11pt;"><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 12pt; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">As a result, many members of IGC align themselves with the statements from EFF and Access Now and the call for an outright halt to the sale.</span></span></p></li></ul><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="color: #000000; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">AGREED - from all evidence on this list, on Twitter, from the over ten of thousand + signatories to the EFF/NTEN letter, our in-person events, etc. we believe this is an accurate representation. I am not sure that anyone on this list (or elsewhere) thinks this sale should go ahead in its current form, or in the absence of further information. </span></span></p><ul style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><li style="list-style-type: disc; color: #500050; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre; margin-left: 11pt;"><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 12pt; margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">At a minimum, all IGC members agree there is a need for greater transparency regarding the terms and potential implications of this sale, and that there are appropriate safeguards in place to protect the interests of .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG registrants and the people who visit their websites every day</span></span></p></li></ul><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="color: #000000; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">DISAGREE - At this stage we should not be asking for a tinkerings to a faulty and problematic deal, by offering protections to the nature of the agreement. Being permissive and giving a green light to a sale of the non-commercial part of the internet that is essentially a non-transparent insider negotiation offends our values and principles, and I think that civil society should hold a strong line. With potential legal fights and political oversight yet to come, let’s call for a halt to the sale and for immediate transparency of process, and leave it there for now.</span></span></p><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="color: #000000; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></p><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="color: #000000; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">Thanks so much again - and happy to help with a new draft version.</span></span></p><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="color: #000000; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></p><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="color: #000000; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">Brett</span></span></p><br class="ox-aed2665b68-gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir="ltr" class="ox-aed2665b68-gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Brett Solomon <br>Executive Director <br>Access Now | <a href="https://accessnow.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">accessnow.org</a> <br> <br></div>@solomonbrett <br><div>Key ID: 0x4EDC17EB <br>Fingerprint: C02C A886 B0FC 3A25 FF9F ECE8 FCDF BA23 4EDC 17EB</div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size: 12.8px;"><span style="font-size: small;">*</span> <strong style="font-size: small;">Subscribe</strong> <span style="font-size: small;"> to the </span> <a href="https://www.accessnow.org/campaign/#sign-up" style="font-size: small; color: #1155cc;" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Access Now Express</a> <span style="font-size: small;">, our weekly newsletter on digital rights</span> <br></div></div><div><div style="font-size: small;">* <strong>Protect digital rights</strong> around the world - <a href="https://act.accessnow.org/page/13742/donate/1" style="color: #1155cc;" target="_blank" rel="noopener">support Access Now</a> with a donation today</div><div style="color: #222222; font-size: small;"> <br></div></div><div> <br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="ox-aed2665b68-gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="ox-aed2665b68-gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 7:17 AM Imran Ahmed Shah < <a href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net">governance@lists.riseup.net</a>> wrote: <br></div><blockquote><div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><div> <br></div><div dir="ltr">Dear Sheetal, <br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I agree with the Ian Peter. We needs the point to weigh-in our statement.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I have some queries, suggestions and recommendations on the initial draft of Ayden and copying hereunder. <br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Few comments:</div><div dir="ltr">I think we should not evaluate Public Interest in terms of Money.... in any case...</div><div dir="ltr">We should not to be more concerned with the financial figures. <br></div><div dir="ltr">Perhaps, we may be concerned if it is being discussed in reference of the ICANN's decision and reasoning behind handing over the dotOrg to ISOC 'to support recurring expenses etc.'.. and now, if the ISOC has gotten enough benefits out of it,......dotORG should have to be returned to ICANN, so that ICANN can handover to some other similar not-for-profit trustworthy, credible organizations working for Public Interests, having the capacity to over see the Internet in Public domain and public interest.... to benefit next one after ISOC.... </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Secondly, our goal is the protection of dotOrg from going it into the hand of commercial and nonpublic interest companies even if they could be able to recruiting, the hundreds of the CS members or can employee (or buy in some in-kind trade) ..to address public interests to claim.some kind of notional support board... </div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div><div dir="ltr">I also suggest to create etherpad document... just created with the points shared by you... <a href="https://pad.riseup.net/p/IGConPIRv0NiRaxk3qi-keep" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://pad.riseup.net/p/IGConPIRv0NiRaxk3qi-keep</a> <br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><div>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =</div></div><div dir="ltr"> <em><span style="color: black;">To: Gonzalo Camarillo, Chair of the Board of Trustees, Internet Society</span></em></div><div dir="ltr"><div><p style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><em><span style="color: black;">As members of a network which encompasses many non-commercial organizations and public interest technologists, we are concerned by the announcement that Ethos Capital is acquiring the assets of the Public Interest Registry (PIR) from the Internet Society (ISOC), including the .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG Registry Agreements. </span></em></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><em><span style="color: black;">Principally, we are concerned that the sale of PIR to a private entity will significantly alter the Domain Name System and weaken ISOC. PIR played an important role, as the only remaining non-commercial top-level domain registry operator, in serving as a counterbalance against commercial exploitation. PIR ran .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG for the benefit of its users, whereas other top-level domains are run by private companies with purely financial objectives. While the interests of companies and users do at times overlap, they can also conflict, and when this occurs there are significant human rights implications. PIR, as a subsidiary of ISOC, could be relied upon to do what was best for domain name registrants, and has a proud history of doing just that. However, PIR also gave ISOC legitimacy and influence. It allowed ISOC to take an active role in shaping Internet infrastructure </span></em><em><span style="color: red;">[IAS: suggest to add here… “keeping the Public Interest Intact”]</span></em><em><span style="color: black;">. In relinquishing its control over PIR, ISOC loses its ability to directly impact how millions of people around the world positively experience the Internet every day, and we think that is a great pity.</span></em></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><em><span style="color: black;">This is a significant change, for ISOC and for the Internet community, and we are not yet satisfied that there are appropriate safeguards in place to protect the interests of .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG registrants and the people who visit their websites every day. <u>You have the ability to put requests to Ethos Capital and to call this deal off if appropriate and binding safeguards cannot be put in place</u></span></em><em><span style="color: #ffc000;">.</span></em> <em><span style="color: red;">[IAS: it very polite, humble request or perhaps diplomatic sentence/phrase. Which will result a simple answer “thanks for your deep concerns but we do not feel it appropriate at this stage the take the deal off”, the same I have listen from ICANN Chair in 2009]</span></em><em><span style="color: black;"> We encourage you to do just that.</span></em><em><span style="color: red;"> [IAS: What to do, to stop the deal or what is appropriate? Need to change this sentence and to be specific result that we are recommending or demanding] </span></em><em><span style="color: black;">As a sign of good faith, we ask that ISOC have Ethos Capital commit to incorporating PIR as a benefit corporation. </span></em><em><span style="color: red;">[IAS: again we are allowing them to proceed with the deal and seeking the alteration of the terms, rules/bylaws and commitment of a commercial entity to keep this public interest entity protected as a benefit organization…? Secondly, believing and understanding that the Investor “Ethos Capital” has invested the PIR to convert in B-Corp/ commercial entity how we assume that he will be accepting when he has investing billions..] </span></em><em><span style="color: black;">We understand that Ethos Capital has said they are evaluating becoming a B Lab B Corp, but this is not the same thing as a benefit corporation and is instead a non-binding certification. </span></em><em><span style="color: red;">[IAS: I suggest that we should use it as a proof that Ethos Capital has intention to transform the public interest entity into a B-Corp/ commercial entity. In the same context, we should ask ‘the Board’ that is this ‘intention’ was in their knowledge or in the knowledge of decision maker bodies that this faith base public interest entity will be commercialized by the new investor? If, yes, how they accepted it?]</span></em></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><em><u><span style="color: black;">Large parts of the world</span></u></em> <em><span style="color: red;">[IAS: I suggest that here we have to use other terms which has higher weightage (weigh-in); e.g. one of the ISOC/PIR representative has responded like this “the objections are not reported from the majority of users, which means the majority of the users has no concern who is running the registry”]</span></em><em><span style="color: black;"> are uncomfortable with the Internet being governed entirely by commercial interests, and <u>many of our members</u> </span></em><em><span style="color: red;">[IAS: I suggest that we have to elaborate “the members”, e.g IGC Members, IGC coalition Partners or perhaps including CSCG] </span></em><em><span style="color: black;">are deeply uncomfortable with PIR being sold at all. However, incorporation as a benefit corporation could provide a sturdier path forward if ISOC does proceed to sell the assets of PIR, and could be </span></em><em><span style="color: red;">[IAS: I suggest rephrase “Could have been assured”] </span></em><em><span style="color: black;">an effective means of mitigating against some of the risks that we can foresee emerging from this sale. A benefit corporation in the right jurisdiction would require the publication of comprehensive, credible, independent, and transparent annual reports on social impact and, most importantly, require the organization to consider benefits to the public in addition to profit when decisions are being made. And, it would oblige Ethos Capital to honor the promises and commitments it is making today.</span></em></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><em><span style="color: black;">We trust that you understand why this is important to us. Ethos Capital is an unknown entity, and in the absence of clear information about their motives behind acquiring PIR and their sales pitch to investors, the non-profit and non-governmental communities require assurances that the future of the .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG domain names that we use for our email, websites, campaigns, and fundraising efforts are in safe hands. </span></em><em><span style="color: red;">[IAS: I suggest add these lines here “Our Data & Privacy is not being compromised, shared, observed, monitored are not shared or sold to the competitors (right now during transition or) in future by the Registry, or partner commercial/ noncommercial entities”] </span></em><em><span style="color: black;">These are more than just domains, they are symbols of our desire to do good.</span></em></p><div dir="ltr">= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = </div><p><em><span style="color: red;">[IAS: I also have few more concerns:</span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: red;">1.<span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span></em><em><span style="color: red;">Needs transparency and disclosure of the followings (to re-establish of the trust being shacked):</span></em></p><p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><em><span style="color: red;">i.<span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span></em><em><span style="color: red;">the reasoning behind the selling PIR ‘out of the way’ (as apparently seems to me)?, </span></em></p><p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><em><span style="color: red;">ii.<span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span></em><em><span style="color: red;">the reasoning behind the avoidance of engaging a proper bidding?,</span></em></p><p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><em><span style="color: red;">iii.<span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span></em><em><span style="color: red;">the reasoning to giving sole power of decision of sales without the evaluation through open competition and opening comments to sell or not?,</span></em></p><p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><em><span style="color: red;">iv.<span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span></em><em><span style="color: red;">the information of intention disclosure regarding the commercialization aspect or transformation of PIR to B-Corp, when it came in to the knowledge of the selling bodies (prior/during/post sales agreement).</span></em></p><p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><em><span style="color: red;">v.<span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span></em><em><span style="color: red;">Technical Terms and basis of the Technical Evaluations of the Investor Ability, Capability, Credibility, Dependability.</span></em></p><p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><em><span style="color: red;">vi.<span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span></em><em><span style="color: red;">Safeguards evaluated in terms of Public Interest, Faith, Data Protection, Privacy, Security evaluated before making the decision of sales of PIR (.ORG/.NGO/.ONG)</span></em></p><p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><em><span style="color: red;"> </span></em></p><p><em><span style="color: red;">2.<span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span></em><em><span style="color: red;">I would suggest that the statement should be in the following format:</span></em></p><p style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="color: #7030a0;">Preamble</span><span style="color: #7030a0;">/</span><span style="color: #7030a0;">Preface paragraph:</span></p><p style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="color: #7030a0;">Objection/Obligation/Concerns</span></p><p style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="color: #7030a0;">What we demand:</span></p><p style="margin-left: 36pt; text-indent: 36pt;"><span style="color: #7030a0;">Our First Requirement is:</span></p><p style="margin-left: 72pt;"><span style="color: #7030a0;">Requirement of Information (e.g Transparency, Disclosure of deal/ agreement/ technical/ functional/ organizational structural design/basis/planning)</span></p><p style="margin-left: 36pt; text-indent: 36pt;"><span style="color: #7030a0;">Our Second Requirement is:</span></p><p style="margin-left: 90pt;"><span style="color: #7030a0;">A.<span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span><span style="color: #7030a0;">The above facts and figures demand you to stop/end-up the due diligence process and stop the deal.</span></p><p style="margin-left: 90pt;"><span style="color: #7030a0;">If the efforts for A are convincingly & persuasively exercised and but could not achieving required goal-A, we recommends to achieve minimal goal-B after the adoption of above….</span></p><p style="margin-left: 90pt;"><span style="color: #7030a0;">B.<span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span><span style="color: #7030a0;">What we need if the Sales Deal is accomplished, i.e. ensure the commitment </span></p><p style="margin-left: 126pt;"><span style="color: #7030a0;">a.<span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span><span style="color: #7030a0;">Immediate commitment (prior to sale), </span></p><p style="margin-left: 126pt;"><span style="color: #7030a0;">b.<span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span><span style="color: #7030a0;">long term commitment (after sales), </span></p><p style="margin-left: 126pt;"><em><span style="color: red;">(by the way I am not convinced that a commercial organization remains commitment for public interest for long term benefits. Maximum commitments one can expect is just for 2-3 years not beyond. Secondly, if the Ethos Capital sales this entity to any other commercial entity after changing its status to B-Corp, where the agreements with ISOC stands?)</span></em></p></div></div><div dir="ltr"> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = <br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Best Regards</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Imran Ahmed Shah</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[TLDians/UISoc/UiCouncil] <br></div><div><br></div></div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; color: #26282a;"><div>On Friday, 6 December 2019, 01:13:59 GMT+5, Ian Peter < <a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>> wrote:</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div id="ox-aed2665b68-gmail-m_6519930900095874620ydpe2f85b94yiv2296372219"><div><div>I agree approach and basic points Sheetal - but I would drop the human rights clause because it is contentious and does not add great value to the strong basic argument.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Ian</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div id="ox-aed2665b68-gmail-m_6519930900095874620ydpe2f85b94yiv2296372219yqt02683"><div>------ Original Message ------</div><div>From: "Sheetal Kumar" < <a href="mailto:sheetal@gp-digital.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">sheetal@gp-digital.org</a>></div><div>To: "parminder" < <a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></div><div>Cc: "governance" < <a href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">governance@lists.riseup.net</a>></div><div>Sent: 6/12/2019 6:48:38 AM</div><div>Subject: Re: [governance] Proposed statement on .ORG sale</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div id="ox-aed2665b68-gmail-m_6519930900095874620ydpe2f85b94yiv2296372219x6a11c9afd0d040f"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Ayden, Parminder, all, <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>First, thank you very much Ayden for putting this together! I appreciate the attempt to reconcile opposing views, which are clearly present in the IGC. <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I would just say that we have heard from very few others on this list. This may be for any number of reasons, and we could do a poll if its helpful to gather views, including whether people feel they need more information to be able to weigh in. <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>To move forward, if we can agree on the following key points that we need to get across, we can work together on editing/finalising text. <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Short of a poll, if everyone could weigh-in on whether they agree on these points that would be helpful. <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><ul><li>There is a need for greater transparency about the terms of the sale</li><li>There are potential implications for human rights if the sale goes through (need to list/clearly enumerate these)</li><li>As a result, many members of IGC align themselves with the statements from EFF and Access Now and the call for an outright halt to the sale.</li><li>At a minimum, all IGC members agree there is a need for greater transparency regarding the terms and potential implications of this sale, and that there are appropriate safeguards in place to protect the interests of .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG registrants and the people who visit their websites every day</li></ul><div><br clear="none"></div><div>It's difficult to get consensus at best of times, but this is a tricky issue and if we want to put forward something together we might need to go with what we can all agree on at a top-level. <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I look forward to hearing from a wide-range of people, and if anyone has alternative ideas please let us know. <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Best</div><div>Sheetal <br clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none"><div><div dir="ltr">On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 at 08:12, parminder < <a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote: <br clear="none"></div><blockquote><div><p><span style="font-family: Verdana;">thanks for this effort Ayden</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Verdana;">But when there is such a strong 'stop the sale' movement out there, it will be embarrassing for the IG related civil society groups to say, well, at least let Ethos now behave when ISOC did not .... Why ask Ethos to set PIR as a benefit corporation (which they will certainly not) when the existing arrangement (since the sale is not through) is itself more satisfactory? Why not ask for status quo and stopping the sale?</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Verdana;">parminder </span><br clear="none"></p><div>On 04/12/19 6:01 PM, Ayden Férdeline wrote: <br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Dear all, <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I have a new proposed statement that I hope we may consider issuing. Please see below. I have used Sheetal's language as a starting point (thank you!) but I am afraid I did change the messaging quite a bit. This is just a suggestion and please do feel free to edit it to pieces. <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Like Brett, I too would prefer we advocate for stopping the sale altogether, but in the spirit of compromise and given a number of posts on this list that seem supportive of the sale, I've tried a different approach here. <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Thanks and best wishes, <br clear="none"></div><div>Ayden Férdeline <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"><span style="color: #000000;"><em><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">To:</span></span></em></span></span><span style="background-color: transparent;"><span style="color: #000000;"><em><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></span></em></span></span><span style="background-color: transparent;"><span style="color: #000000;"><em><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Gonzalo Camarillo, Chair of the Board of Trustees, Internet Society</span></span></em></span></span><br clear="none"></p><div><br clear="none"></div><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><em>As members of a network which encompasses many non-commercial organizations and public interest technologists, we are concerned by the announcement that Ethos Capital is acquiring the assets of the Public Interest Registry (PIR) from the Internet Society (ISOC), including the .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG Registry Agreements. </em></span></span></span></span><em><br clear="none"> </em></p><div><em><br clear="none"> </em></div><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><em>Principally, we are concerned that the sale of PIR to a private entity will significantly alter the Domain Name System and weaken ISOC. PIR played an important role, as the only remaining non-commercial top-level domain registry operator, in serving as a counterbalance against commercial exploitation. PIR ran .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG for the benefit of its users, whereas other top-level domains are run by private companies with purely financial objectives. While the interests of companies and users do at times overlap, they can also conflict, and when this occurs there are significant human rights implications. PIR, as a subsidiary of ISOC, could be relied upon to do what was best for domain name registrants, and has a proud history of doing just that. However, PIR also gave ISOC legitimacy and influence. It allowed ISOC to take an active role in shaping Internet infrastructure. In relinquishing its control over PIR, ISOC loses its ability to directly impact how millions of people around the world positively experience the Internet every day, and we think that is a great pity.</em></span></span></span></span><em><br clear="none"> </em></p><div><em><br clear="none"> </em></div><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><em>This is a significant change, for ISOC and for the Internet community, and we are not yet satisfied that there are appropriate safeguards in place to protect the interests of .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG registrants and the people who visit their websites every day. You have the ability to put requests to Ethos Capital and to call this deal off if appropriate and binding safeguards cannot be put in place. We encourage you to do just that. As a sign of good faith, we ask that ISOC have Ethos Capital commit to incorporating PIR as a benefit corporation. We understand that Ethos Capital has said they are evaluating becoming a B Lab B Corp, but this is not the same thing as a benefit corporation and is instead a non-binding certification. </em></span></span></span></span><em><br clear="none"> </em></p><div><em><br clear="none"> </em></div><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><em>Large parts of the world are uncomfortable with the Internet being governed entirely by commercial interests, and many of our members are deeply uncomfortable with PIR being sold at all. However, incorporation as a benefit corporation could provide a sturdier path forward if ISOC does proceed to sell the assets of PIR, and could be an effective means of mitigating against some of the risks that we can foresee emerging from this sale. A benefit corporation in the right jurisdiction would require the publication of comprehensive, credible, independent, and transparent annual reports on social impact and, most importantly, require the organization to consider benefits to the public in addition to profit when decisions are being made. And, it would oblige Ethos Capital to honor the promises and commitments it is making today.</em></span></span></span></span><em><br clear="none"> </em></p><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><em> </em></span></span></span></span><em><br clear="none"> </em></p><p style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><em>We trust that you understand why this is important to us. Ethos Capital is an unknown entity, and in the absence of clear information about their motives behind acquiring PIR and their sales pitch to investors, the non-profit and non-governmental communities require assurances that the future of the .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG domain names that we use for our email, websites, campaigns, and fundraising efforts are in safe hands. These are more than just domains, they are symbols of our desire to do good.</em></span></span></span></span><br clear="none"></p><div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ <br clear="none"></div><div>On Sunday, 1 December 2019 17:44, Sheetal Kumar <a href="mailto:sheetal@gp-digital.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><sheetal@gp-digital.org></a> wrote: <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Ayden, all, <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Thanks for your responses! It seems to me that if we're going to agree on anything, it's the lack of transparency that we can agree needs to be rectified. I've slightly reworded the below in light of the recent suggestions and remarks. <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>What do others think about Sylvain's suggestions of asking about setting up a commons PIR (is this possible/feasible?) and of sending this also to ISOC's BoT and CEO? Do you have any others? <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><div><em>As members of a network which encompasses many non-commercial organisations, we are concerned about the lack of transparency regarding the sale of .ORG. When the board discusses the sale of .org, we request that these questions are considered in the due diligence process: </em> <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><em>- What does the Board intend to do in order to protect the existing millions of .ORG registrants?<br clear="none"> - After the changes to the .ORG contract to preserve existing rights of .ORG registrants, how else does the Board intend to ensure the sale of PIR (this new steward of .org) will act on behalf of the public interest and the world community of noncommercial, civil society groups in the world?<br clear="none"> - What are ICANN's obligation to protect those organizations engaged in missions of "public interest around the world?" <br clear="none"> - How does the Board respond to allegations/concerns regarding possible conflict of interest in transference of stewardship to Ethos capital?</em></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><em>We request answers to these questions in the spirit of building trust among NGOs and the non-commercial constituency more generally and those who play a key role in stewarding the Internet.</em> <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><div dir="ltr">On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 at 17:58, Ayden Férdeline < <a href="mailto:ayden@ferdeline.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">ayden@ferdeline.com</a>> wrote: <br clear="none"></div><blockquote><div>While I agree these are questions for the ISOC Board of Trustees, I believe they are *also* questions for the ICANN Board. I expect that the ICANN Board will not respond to them, but I think they could - and should - and I encourage us to place pressure on both parties to take these questions and the sentiments behind them seriously. <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>ICANN, in particular, does need to address at least the perception that there is a revolving door of insiders who are behind this and other deals. And ISOC needs to be more transparent about what due diligence it did before entering into the arrangement to sell PIR, and what mechanisms it has put in place (if any) to protect .ORG, .NGO, and .ONG registrants. Thanks. <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Best wishes, Ayden Férdeline <br clear="none"></div><div> <br clear="none"></div><div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ <br clear="none"></div><div>On Saturday, 30 November 2019 13:34, James Gannon < <a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>> wrote: <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>These are questions for the ISOC Board not the ICANN board. <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><div><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 30 Nov 2019, at 13:09, Sheetal Kumar < <a href="mailto:sheetal@gp-digital.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">sheetal@gp-digital.org</a>> wrote: <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear all, <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>What do people think about sending a letter to the ICANN Board with a series of questions in order to get more transparency? Bruna and I discussed this, and chatted to others, and are wondering what you think of this approach. As the Board will meet and discuss the sale as part of a due diligence process, we thought it might be a constructive approach to request they consider and answer certain questions. <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>It would be great to hear your views on this approach and on the questions. See below: <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><div><em>When the board discusses the sale of .org, we request that these questions are considered in the due diligence process: </em> <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><em>- What does the Board intend to do in order to protect the existing millions of .ORG registrants?<br clear="none"> - After the changes to the .ORG contract to preserve existing rights of .ORG registrants, how else does the Board intend to ensure the sale of PIR (this new steward of .org) will act on behalf of the public interest and the world community of noncommercial, civil society groups in the world?<br clear="none"> - What's ICANN's obligation to protect those organizations engaged in missions of "public interest around the world?" <br clear="none"> - How does the Board respond to allegations/concerns regarding possible conflict of interest in transference of stewardship to Ethos capital</em></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Best<br clear="none"></div><div>Sheetal<br clear="none"></div></div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><div dir="ltr">On Fri, 29 Nov 2019 at 02:36, Sylvain Baya < <a href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">governance@lists.riseup.net</a>> wrote: <br clear="none"></div><blockquote><div>Hi all, <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Le jeudi 28 novembre 2019, Bill Woodcock < <a href="mailto:woody@pch.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">woody@pch.net</a>> a écrit : <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><blockquote><div>> they can (even without sourcing their affirmation) then note that the <br clear="none"></div><div>> minority of *non-commercial* [1] Internet Community is about to be *eliminated* by their <br clear="none"></div><div>> 'well intended' *big deal*. <br clear="none"></div><div>> <br clear="none"></div><div>> Why ? <br clear="none"></div><div>> ...i guess that 1% of 10M (domain names) +=> the non-commercial [1] world is under <br clear="none"></div><div>> the pressure of commercial world in the Internet, even in .ORG registrations they are <br clear="none"></div><div>> still oppressed by 99% of 10M <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>None of the above parses. Please try again, with simpler construction. You can break it out into as many sentences as you like, but please try to make each one encapsulate exactly one thought. Else nobody is going to be able to engage in a constructive conversation with you. <br clear="none"></div></blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div><div>...what's the point please, dear Bill ? <br clear="none"></div><div>Do you really want to convince me without argumenting ? <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Shalom, <br clear="none"></div><div>--sb. <br clear="none"></div><div> <br clear="none"></div><blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div><div> -Bill <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>-- <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div dir="ltr">-- <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size: 10px;">Best Regards ! </span> <br clear="none"></div><div><span style="font-size: 10px;">baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <<a href="https://www.cmnog.cm" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.cmnog.cm</a>> | <<a href="https://survey.cmnog.cm" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://survey.cmnog.cm</a>><br clear="none"> Subscribe to Mailing List : <<a href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/</a>><br clear="none"> __<br clear="none"> #LASAINTEBIBLE|#Romains15:33</span> <span style="font-size: 10px;">«</span> <span style="font-size: 10px;"><em>Que LE #DIEU de #Paix soit avec vous tous! #Amen!</em></span> <span style="font-size: 10px;">»</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10px;">#MaPrière est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chrétiennement<br clear="none"> «<em>Comme une biche soupire après des courants d’eau, ainsi mon âme soupire après TOI, ô DIEU!</em>» (#Psaumes42:2)</span></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>--- <br clear="none"></div><div>To unsubscribe: <mailto: <a href="mailto:igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net</a>> <br clear="none"></div><div>List help: < <a href="https://riseup.net/lists" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://riseup.net/lists</a>> <br clear="none"></div></blockquote></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>-- <br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br clear="none"></div><div style="color: #888888; 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