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<p><font face="Verdana">To further build the case why IGC should
take a clear stand:</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">We must understand that unique names and
addresses on the Internet are basically a common or public
good... Its value is not created by anyone to be able to profit
from it, it belongs to all, the logic of which is self evident.
<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">For this reason, core gTLDs, esp as carrying
denominations that are essential to definition of some social
entities, like .org, or .edu, .health, etc, should also be
common or public goods.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">These should ideally be managed as non
-profit -- on no-profit no-loss basis. But, in these neo-liberal
times when </font>even non profits are advised to work on
market principles, even if for efficiency sake we are to take the
services of a for-profit to run this commons/ public service it
should be so arranged that the profits, or service fees, are quite
modest.</p>
<p>But the talk of 1 billion or 2 billion dollars for running .org,
which today is much simpler activity than it used to be --
basically keeping a directory, allocating non-duplicating names,
and maintaining a server that periodically confirms to ISPs the
addresses under .org -- is simply ridiculous!!!</p>
<p>A billion dollar is a very big money, esp for developing
countries... The very few start ups that may cross that amount in
evaluation immediately become national stars. <br>
</p>
<p>People, or even, orgs making money as rents from our commons
assets is basically a tax upon us.... So it does not matter if it
is $5 or $10 more.... The question is why should I take any tax
increase at all, when that money goes to some US based insiders,
enjoying access to a perpetual global tax. Why should it be not on
no loss no profit basis, or at the most a modest service fees for
the activity operator. And when the tax collection system is to
migrate from a non profit, claiming to be the legitimate global
representative of the technical community, to a newly, and
somewhat shady-ily, formed US business, by ex ICANN insiders,
there is obviously reason to be concerned and oppose this deal. <br>
</p>
<p>These are the key questions to be asked and discussed, especially
in the civil society dedicated to IG issues, which discussion one
hopes will be a little different from the discussions taking place
among business and technical groups. And it is primarily IGC's
responsibility to do it.</p>
<p>parminder <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/12/19 2:25 PM, parminder wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:5b34e188-7e0d-8720-5857-5995f5e2040c@itforchange.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/12/19 12:03 AM, Joly MacFie
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAM9VJk1A4CC358CC-WYGdsaa0fPf8hPUzHF58LXrerw0WBx8LQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Hi Mwenda,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">My guess
is, if you were on the ISOC Board you would have done what
they did. Take expert advice <br>
<br>
Apparently there were earlier offers - more than one at
least - but nothing that the ISOC BoT considered remotely
acceptable. Then this offer came in. So, they contemplated
an auction. They took expert advice, The advice was</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Thanks Joly, you seem to know much more than was is publicly
available... What are your sources, in case you can tell us
that..<br>
</p>
<p>As for expert advice, it is not difficult to get the expert
advice one wants to get. That is why due processes of
accountability beyond expert advice exists. <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAM9VJk1A4CC358CC-WYGdsaa0fPf8hPUzHF58LXrerw0WBx8LQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"> 1) they
were unlikely to get a higher bid,</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>You have no way to prove that I could not have pulled together
a consortium in India that would have paid a higher price. Can
you? This is especially my right as an ISOC member, when ISOC is
supposed to be a global body. Why then do a sweetheart deal
after some confabulations among US insiders? <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAM9VJk1A4CC358CC-WYGdsaa0fPf8hPUzHF58LXrerw0WBx8LQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"> 2) an
auction could damage PIR both in morale and value. Plus
Ethos had said they were not interested in participating in
an auction, and it was thought they might just walk away.
The decision was made to negotiate. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Why does then ICANN auction gTLDs, and not take expert advice
to make secret deals to maximise its reveues? Does its auction
process reduce the morale and value of gTLDs or its buyers? I
absolutely did not get your logic.</p>
<p>ICANN has a rulebook whereby it has to auction gTLDs.... This
rule exists as an obvious good practice, especially when dealing
with a public or community asset.... ISOC did not have such a
rule pre-established for it bec it is normally not in gTLDs
selling business. But this does not mean that it can avoid
observing the normal good practice, especially as involving a
public or community asset, which most people take PIR to be, and
is also indicated in its name. ISOC may not have broken any
rule, but its secret sale of .org is absolutely against the
spirit of community trusteeship that it is supposed to embody. <br>
</p>
<p>It is for the civil society engaged with IG issues to seek
accountability from ISOC in this regard. With non IG civil
society organisations like Girl Scouts taking up the cudgels
against ISOC it will be greatly amiss if we do not take any
stand in this matter.</p>
<p>parminder <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAM9VJk1A4CC358CC-WYGdsaa0fPf8hPUzHF58LXrerw0WBx8LQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Joly</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 1:10
PM Mwendwa Kivuva <<a
href="mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Kivuva@transworldafrica.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">If I was on the ISOC board, I would probably
suggest an auction as the best bet. Buying a $100m annual
revenue company with few overheads at $1.3b is a steal
anywhere. With the right strategy, the return on
investment will be in less than 10 years. A simplistic
reasonable RoI of 20years puts the value of .org way
beyond the $2b mark</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Nov 30, 2019,
23:58 Dave Burstein <<a
href="mailto:daveb@dslprime.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">daveb@dslprime.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">Folks</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">I know many of the board
members at ISOC. I've been one of the most
skeptical of the deal, which clearly causes some
important harm. That said, I have written they are
honorable and not corrupt. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">When the $1.135B figure was
(finally) released, I write the below, including
"If I were on the board, I might have voted for
the deal." Reasonable people <u>might</u> decide
that $1B+ for an organization committed to the
Internet for everybody is enough to balance the
harms we've discussed. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">I'm sending this here because
I'm sure most of the people on this list are
likewise honorable, even if I think their
positions wrong. There are crooks in this world,
including many US Congressmen, but very few of
them bother with this list or the ISOC board. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">It's now important we work to
bring ISOC back to its mission and open internal
processes. ISOC is very far away from living up to
our principles. If you're not an ISOC member, do
join and choose a chapter. If there's no chapter
where you are, the New York Chapter welcomes you.
A third of our members are not local.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">My strength is tech, not
policy. If you need to know whether Massive MIMO
is the cost-effective way to a robust Internet,
please ask. (It is, per Stanford Professor
Paulraj.) Or what's really going on in 5G. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">I've also included an opinion
piece on IGF. I listened to a session on IoT which
was completely out of touch. To be widely adopted,
IoT devices need to cost $2-$5. The suggestions on
that panel would cost more than that. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><a
href="https://netpolicynews.com/index.php/89-r/1166-1-300-000-000-to-internet-society-if-org-deal-goes-down"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://netpolicynews.com/index.php/89-r/1166-1-300-000-000-to-internet-society-if-org-deal-goes-down</a><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">
<h2
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:inherit;line-height:1.2;margin:0px
0px 18px;font-size:1.4em"><a
href="https://netpolicynews.com/index.php/89-r/1166-1-300-000-000-to-internet-society-if-org-deal-goes-down"
title="Breaking: $1,135,000,000 to Internet
Society if .org Deal Goes Down"
style="box-sizing:border-box;background:transparent;color:rgb(19,40,69);text-decoration-line:none"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Breaking:
$1,135,000,000 to Internet Society if .org
Deal Goes Down</a></h2>
<p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px
9px">Tim Berners-Lee, over 10,000 at <a
href="https://savedotorg.org/#add-org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://savedotorg.org/#add-org</a>,
slews of reporters, 3 ISOC Chapters and almost
all well-informed independents are strongly
opposed to the deal. The Internet Society just
revealed it would get 1.13 Billion from very
rich US investors for .org. That is enough money
that honorable people have decided the damage to
the Internet from the deal should be overridden.
The deal will die if Pennsylvania or ICANN
blocks or even delays.</p>
<p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px
9px">If I were on the board, I might have voted
for the deal. I've been among the most
skeptical, partly because the amount and many
other key details were totally secret. I would
have demanded much more information and public
discussion. </p>
<p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px
9px">I'm strongly advocating ISOC now take
extraordinary steps to heal the rift with the
chapters and restore the public perception of
ISOC. </p>
<p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px
9px"><a
href="https://netpolicynews.com/index.php/89-r/1162-igf-talkfest-crisis-chaos-or-just-evolving"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://netpolicynews.com/index.php/89-r/1162-igf-talkfest-crisis-chaos-or-just-evolving</a><br>
</p>
<h2
style="box-sizing:border-box;color:inherit;line-height:1.2;margin:0px
0px 18px;font-size:1.4em"><a
href="https://netpolicynews.com/index.php/89-r/1162-igf-talkfest-crisis-chaos-or-just-evolving"
title="IGF Talkfest: Crisis, Chaos, or Just
Evolving"
style="box-sizing:border-box;background:transparent;color:rgb(19,40,69);text-decoration-line:none"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">IGF Talkfest: Crisis,
Chaos, or Just Evolving</a></h2>
<p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px
9px">"The Internet Governance Forum does need to
evolve," ICANN & ISOC-NY board member Avri
Doria emails. "Speaking personally, I do not
believe the IGF would disappear. If something
were to happen, or if in the future it was not
renewed by the UN General Assembly, then it
could be recreated in a bottom-up manner as an
international place to bring the various groups
together. I also said that I considered
the National and Regional Initiative one of the
greatest outcomes of the IGF because they
brought "Internet Governance" to the national
and regional level." </p>
<p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px
9px">The most common criticism of the IGF is
that all it does is talk, talk, talk. That's
valuable, but many hope for IGF to have direct
results. <a
href="https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Missing-Link-Die-Rettung-des-Internet-Governance-Forum-4594822.htm"
style="box-sizing:border-box;background:transparent;color:rgb(19,40,69);text-decoration-line:none"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Monika Ermert, the
best-informed commentator on "Internet
Governance,"</a> writes, "In Berlin, the hosts
want to work hard to lead the IGF out of the
crisis, which has been around for a few years
because it only debates and does not act.
... Die Machtlosigkeit ist dabei ein
Geburtsfehler." Ermert describes a highly
chaotic program.</p>
<p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px
9px">From the beginning, governments did not
want to give away power. I've reported that the
non-government participants have come
overwhelmingly from the US and allies, as well
as some others in general agreement. The
non-government attendees rarely spoke from the
point of view of the global south, which now
represents the strong majority of Internet
users. Two-thirds of the world want a more
internationally representative group in charge,
presumably the ITU. </p>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<span>Joly MacFie <span title="Call with Google Voice">218
565 9365</span> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="Skype:punkcast" moz-do-not-send="true">Skype:punkcast</a></span><br>
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