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<div><div style="direction: ltr;">You can run mail for a small non profit or neighbourhood club on an old pc running Linux / BSD and in fact several of the smaller cctlds were running on just such antique / donated infrastructure earlier. </div><div><br></div><div style="direction: ltr;">When you get to a larger user base and have higher sla and availability concerns you need rather more infrastructure. </div><div><br></div><div style="direction: ltr;">It is always a trade off between cheap fast and good - you get a maximum of two out of three in general </div><div style="direction: ltr;"></div></div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 1:41 PM +0530, "Imran Ahmed Shah" <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net" target="_blank">governance@lists.riseup.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Hi Suresh,</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">><span><span>Do you have some data points for the assumption that operating the registry at Donuts will reduce the costs by “a lot”?</span></span><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">The cost of the maintaining registry operation is not too much costly solution, and adding up the instances along with the other dozens of the gTLDs, there in no additional hardware of infrastructure cost involved..</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">><span><span>Domain registrations in org aren’t growing all that fast - .org is
at 10 million domains – lower than ccTLDs like uk, tk and de (</span><a shape="rect" href="https://www.verisign.com/en_IN/domain-names/dnib/index.xhtml?section=tlds" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.verisign.com/en_IN/domain-names/dnib/index.xhtml?section=tlds</a>).
If you limit your search to actual non profits registering .org names
that will show at most a fractional increase year on year.</span><br></div><span></span><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><div><span><p class="ydpaef713bMsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Times New Roman,serif;mso-fareast-font-family:Times New Roman"></span></p></span><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><div><div>Afilias charged $3.75/domain to run the registry, for 10m domains getting approx $37.5m/yr. <span>As you asked for statistics,... </span>let me quote you the example of your dot IN ccTLD for comparision. Afilias quoted $1.1/domain and Neustar won the bid for $0.70 per domain name to maintain less then 2m domains (<$1.4m annual).</div><br>Secondly, also note that in during the evaluation previous bidding of .ORG in Accra, Ghana meeting in March 2002, ICANN board did not accepted the proposal of reduction of the registry price below US$6, comparing with the GNR proposed price of $3.47/domain (around 42% reduction at that time), while Neustar proposed to setup $5/domain.</div><div><br></div></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Best Regards</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Imran Ahmed Shah</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Consultant/ Advisor</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">[TLDians.com]</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">[Urdu Internet Council]<br></div></div><div><span>
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On Monday, 2 December 2019, 12:30:16 GMT+5, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh@hserus.net> wrote:
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<div><div id="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053"><div><div class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053WordSection1"><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span>Do you have some data points for the assumption that operating the registry at Donuts will reduce the costs by “a lot”?</span></p><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span> </span></p><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span>Domain registrations in org aren’t growing all that fast - .org is at 10 million domains – lower than ccTLDs like uk, tk and de (</span><a shape="rect" href="https://www.verisign.com/en_IN/domain-names/dnib/index.xhtml?section=tlds" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" class="enhancr_card_5860421261">Domain Name Industry Brief (DNIB) - Verisign</a>). If you limit your search to actual non profits registering .org names that will show at most a fractional increase year on year.</p><div><br></div><div id="ydp6b569599enhancr_card_5860421261" class="ydp6b569599yahoo-link-enhancr-card ydp6b569599ymail-preserve-class ydp6b569599ymail-preserve-style" style="max-width:400px;font-family:Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" data-url="https://www.verisign.com/en_IN/domain-names/dnib/index.xhtml?section=tlds" data-type="YENHANCER" data-size="MEDIUM" contenteditable="false"><a href="https://www.verisign.com/en_IN/domain-names/dnib/index.xhtml?section=tlds" style="text-decoration-line: none !important; text-decoration-style: solid !important; text-decoration-color: currentcolor !important; color: rgb(0, 0, 0) !important;" class="ydp6b569599yahoo-enhancr-cardlink" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><table class="ydp6b569599card-wrapper ydp6b569599yahoo-ignore-table" style="max-width:400px" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td width="400"><table class="ydp6b569599card ydp6b569599yahoo-ignore-table" style="max-width:400px;border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(224, 228, 233);border-radius:2px" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ydp6b569599card-primary-image-cell" style="background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-size: cover; position: relative; border-radius: 2px 2px 0px 0px; min-height: 175px;" valign="top" height="175" bgcolor="#000000" background="https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/9R9vt_teD_1Q5sSQ68xcMw--~A/Zmk9ZmlsbDt3PTQwMDtoPTIwMDthcHBpZD1pZXh0cmFjdA--/https://www.verisign.com/en_IN/resources/img/VRSN_logo_201712.png.cf.jpg"><!--[if gte mso 9]><v:rect fill="true" stroke="false" style="width:396px;height:175px;position:absolute;top:0;left:0;"><v:fill type="frame" color="#000000" src="https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/9R9vt_teD_1Q5sSQ68xcMw--~A/Zmk9ZmlsbDt3PTQwMDtoPTIwMDthcHBpZD1pZXh0cmFjdA--/https://www.verisign.com/en_IN/resources/img/VRSN_logo_201712.png.cf.jpg"/></v:rect><![endif]--><table class="ydp6b569599card-overlay-container-table ydp6b569599yahoo-ignore-table" style="width:100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ydp6b569599card-overlay-cell" style="background-color: transparent; border-radius: 2px 2px 0px 0px; min-height: 175px;" valign="top" bgcolor="transparent" background="https://s.yimg.com/cv/ae/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV21/1/enhancr_gradient-400x175.png"><!--[if gte mso 9]><v:rect fill="true" stroke="false" style="width:396px;height:175px;position:absolute;top:-18px;left:0;"><v:fill type="pattern" color="#000000" src="https://s.yimg.com/cv/ae/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV21/1/enhancr_gradient-400x175.png"/><v:textbox inset="0,0,20px,0"><![endif]--><table class="ydp6b569599yahoo-ignore-table" style="width: 100%; min-height: 175px;" height="175" border="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ydp6b569599card-richInfo2" style="text-align:left;padding:15px 0 0 15px;vertical-align:top"></td><td class="ydp6b569599card-actions" style="text-align:right;padding:15px 15px 0 0;vertical-align:top"><div class="ydp6b569599card-share-container"></div></td></tr></tbody></table><!--[if gte mso 9]></v:textbox></v:rect><![endif]--></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td><table class="ydp6b569599card-info ydp6b569599yahoo-ignore-table" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); background-repeat: repeat; background-attachment: scroll; background-image: none; background-size: auto; position: relative; z-index: 2; width: 100%; max-width: 400px; border-radius: 0px 0px 2px 2px; border-top: 1px solid rgb(224, 228, 233);" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center"><tbody><tr><td style="background-color:#ffffff;padding:16px 0 16px 12px;vertical-align:top;border-radius:0 0 0 2px"></td><td style="vertical-align:middle;padding:12px 24px 16px 12px;width:99%;font-family:Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;border-radius:0 0 2px 0"><h2 class="ydp6b569599card-title" style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 19px; margin: 0px 0px 6px; font-family: Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">Domain Name Industry Brief (DNIB) - Verisign</h2><p class="ydp6b569599card-description" style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 16px; margin: 0px; color: rgb(151, 155, 167);">Verisign Domain Name Industry Brief (DNIB) provides up-to-date trends in new registrations, renewals and growth.</p></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"> </p><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span> </span></p><div class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053yqt3248670868" id="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053yqt31121"><div style="border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentcolor currentcolor; border-style: solid none none; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;"><governance-request@lists.riseup.net> on behalf of "Imran Ahmed Shah (via governance Mailing List)" <governance@lists.riseup.net><br clear="none"><b>Reply to: </b><ias_pk@yahoo.com><br clear="none"><b>Date: </b>Monday, 2 December 2019 at 12:26 PM<br clear="none"><b>To: </b>IGCaucus <governance@lists.riseup.net>, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net><br clear="none"><b>Subject: </b>Re: [governance] PIR Case/or the .org sell</span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Dear Bill,</span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">While comparing the revenue and income project of next 10 years, also add the yearly growth of domain registrations. </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Secondly, also note that....."PIR generated $101 million in revenue in 2018 and contributed nearly $50 million to Internet Society. It contributed $74 million to ISOC in 2017." "PIR paid over $33 millions to Afilias (in 2014)" to run the Registry Operations. Comparing with donuts.domains, if .Org operations are shifted from Afilias, the expense will reduce a lot. </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Think about 2-3 years ahead, if this investor exit and sells it to new bidder for $2b or $3b, should they calculate for setting up new prices for return of investment?</span></p></div></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">However, question is not how the .Org is profitable for perceptive buyers, either it is ethos and any other future bidder, the question is the Public Interest vs Commercial Interest (or Non Public Interest). </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Regards</span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Imran Ahmed Shah</span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div></div><div id="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053ydpe9278200yahoo_quoted_5476278818"><div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">On Monday, 2 December 2019, 03:49:28 GMT+5, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote: </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><div id="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053ydpe9278200yiv1387642728"><div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Forwarded from another list:</span></p><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053ydpe9278200yiv1387642728"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#26282A;">From: </span></b></span><span class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053ydpe9278200yiv1387642728"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#26282A;">Bill Woodcock <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:woody@pch.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">woody@pch.net</a>></span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"></span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053ydpe9278200yiv1387642728"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#26282A;">Date: </span></b></span><span class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053ydpe9278200yiv1387642728"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#26282A;">December 1, 2019 at 10:01:19 PM GMT+1</span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"></span></p></div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p><div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Since I haven’t seen anyone else actually post this analysis yet, here goes:</span></p><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div></div></div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"><img id="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053ydpe9278200yiv1387642728CC38E21B-70F8-432A-B063-B34DC2AD22BC" style="width: 100%; max-width: 780px;" src="cid:wxezUGyS7Co8zgR3u8gC" alt="cid:YXhsGI1ykGLnR9KgzXET" draggable="false" border="0"></span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p><div><div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Ethos’ offered purchase price is $1.135B. At that price, if they exercise the maximum 10% annual wholesale price increase, .ORG domains wind up at $26/year at the end of the ten-year period. If Ethos pays the actual cost of registry and DNS services, without the subsidies ISOC currently receives, but continues at the same level of quality, they’d make a total of $318M in profit over the ten years, or 8.59% annualized return. If they cut spending to the bone, using the crappiest available registry and DNS services and not caring how much downtime they had, they could increase their profit to $598M, or 9.71% annualized return.</span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">If they were to do a single 10% increase, at the beginning of the first year, they’d lose $355M if they maintained current service levels, or $55M if they axed spending. If they maintained current prices, they’d lose $435M or $155M. Private equity doesn’t plan to lose money. Therefore the suggestions from the public that the deal be allowed to proceed “if they agree not to raise prices” or “if they only raise prices 10%” simply won’t happen.</span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">The other implication of this is that if a non-profit were to buy from ISOC and maintain current prices, putting all available money toward ISOC and keeping nothing for themselves, they could only offer $700M, and that would be at the rate of $70M per year, “seller financed” at no interest. ISOC is currently chewing up $45M/year, but once they’re no longer dependent on .ORG, they could drop a significant chunk of their spending that’s going toward maintaining those interests. Let’s say that they could drop their spending to $30M. That would leave $40M in excess profits each year going toward an endowment:</span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div></div></div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"><img id="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053ydpe9278200yiv1387642728B3C31C7C-1564-4045-9FBA-739E756074E3" style="width: 400px; max-width: 400px;" src="cid:f9ogu884zofsZSYQYn25" alt="cid:w1dx1QW3npxLPXgRsW4e" draggable="false" border="0"></span></p><div><div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">At the end of the ten-year period, the endowment would stand at $626M, and interest from the endowment would be $50M/year. Which is more than they’re receiving right now. If they continued to just draw $30M/year, the endowment would continue to grow by $20M/year, making it safer and safer over time.</span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">So, I don’t think it works to ask Ethos to not raise prices, but (putting aside the fact that they’ve already signed an agreement with Ethos, which ICANN or the State of Pennsylvania would have to stop) ISOC could certainly do well (not _as_ well, but much better than they’re doing right now) and be completely out of the domain name business, while giving .ORG registrants a guarantee of no price increases, and having .ORG become fully non-profit, rather than the odd non-profit/for-profit hybrid it is right now.</span></p></div><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p><div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> -Bill</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="ydpaca4a0eayiv8999511053MsoNormal">--- To unsubscribe: List help: </p></div></div></div></div>
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