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    I would second David's point but would suggest that these two types
    of processes are both worth tracking independently.<br>
    <br>
    I'll just add that I don't personally have any recent examples from
    Canada of the latter ('in their respective roles') that were
    meaningful, unless you count regulatory processes. <br>
    <br>
    Best,<br>
    Tamir<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-10-31 9:30 a.m.,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:david_allen_ab63@post.harvard.edu">david_allen_ab63@post.harvard.edu</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:6893C961-ED4E-4B91-8287-E7EEDAE56D1A@post.harvard.edu">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div class="">With appreciation, Ian, for your bringing to the
        surface this important discussion.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">I believe those of us with a history in these
        matters, going back some years now, know pretty clearly one of
        the distinctions.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">"In respective roles" acknowledges that, for
        democracy to work, representatives elected by the people make
        the final policy choice. Where the deliberative process, leading
        up to that policy choice, must also necessarily bring energetic
        input from the people, in this case represented now by the
        notion of civil society. Only then, with active citizen
        participation, is there any prospect for real democracy.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">"On an equal footing" disrupts this careful process
        of deliberation, then choice by elected representatives. Indeed,
        leaves no actual process.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">
        <div class="">And indeed, division directly on this matter led
          to the creation of key groups in the civil society sphere.</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="">Again, with appreciation.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">David</div>
      <div><br class="">
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">On Oct 30, 2019, at 5:30 PM, Ian Peter <<a
              href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" class=""
              moz-do-not-send="true">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>>
            wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <div class="">
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
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              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
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              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class="">Thanks everyone who
              responded so far - I was interested to learn that we do
              have some reasonable examples of government co-operating
              with civil society and private sector in policy
              development: at a national level- and to learn that<span
                class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
                href="http://cgi.br/" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">cgi.br</a><span
                class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is still alive.</div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
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            </div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
              0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class="">We can debate forever
              what terms like "multistakeholderism", "enhanced
              co-operation", "respective roles" and "equal footing"
              mean, but I remain convinced that the only path to
              effective cooperation on the complex policy issues we face
              with the evolving internet will  be all parties working
              co-operatively on policy evolution - both within national
              borders, and also across these borders on a global basis.</div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
              0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="">
            </div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
              0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class="">I should mention that my
              questions were prompted by attending Australia's Netthing
              event (<a href="https://netthing.org.au/"
                style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://netthing.org.au/</a>).
              My impression after that was that the government here
              wanted to be seen to be co-operating with other
              stakeholders, but either was doing this in a tokenistic
              fashion or wasn't quite sure how to go about it. So some
              good examples from elsewhere might be very useful!</div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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              text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="">
            </div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
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            </div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
              0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class="">Ian Peter</div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
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              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="">
            </div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
              0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class="">------ Original Message
              ------</div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
              0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class="">From: "Tamir" <<a
                href="mailto:tisrael@cippic.ca" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">tisrael@cippic.ca</a>></div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
              0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class="">To:<span
                class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
                href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">governance@lists.riseup.net</a></div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
              0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class="">Sent: 31/10/2019 3:56:02
              AM</div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
              0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class="">Subject: Re: [governance]
              Good examples of muiltistakeholder policy development at a
              national level?</div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
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              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
              0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="">
            </div>
            <div id="x4daefd27eb64456" style="font-family: "Segoe
              UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
              0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class="">
              <blockquote
                cite="x-msg://32/6e7eff25-5a70-910b-ea55-a31944fa3bb8@cippic.ca"
                type="cite" class="cite2" style="margin-left: 5px;
                margin-right: 0px; padding-left: 10px; padding-right:
                0px; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;
                border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); margin-top: 3px;
                padding-top: 0px;">I can speak a bit to the Canadian IoT
                initiative.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                This process was largely guided/hosted by ISOC, CIRA
                (our ccTLD) and ISED, which is our industry/innovation
                department. The process went really well, and the
                government participants definitely engaged on equal
                footing.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                There were also government officials, civil society reps
                and business reps in the actual working groups that
                drove most of the work. There too, it was definitely an
                equal footing exchange.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                Best regards,<br class="">
                Tamir<br class="">
                <br class="">
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-10-30 12:51 p.m.,
                  Joly MacFie wrote:<br class="">
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAM9VJk0J=PafG4fsFJJi+NeBMQwagNpSRZOAM0qWBvm+qZ2-XQ@mail.gmail.com"
                  class="cite" style="margin-left: 5px; margin-right:
                  0px; padding-left: 10px; padding-right: 0px;
                  border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;
                  border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">
                  <div dir="ltr" class="">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">The
                      Canada IoT Security process, fostered by ISOC's NA
                      Bureau, appeared to be a success <a
                        href="https://iotsecurity2018.ca/"
                        moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://iotsecurity2018.ca/</a> </div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;"><br
                        class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">Here
                      is video of Larry Strickling's introductory
                      comments <a
                        href="https://livestream.com/internetsociety/12days08/"
                        moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://livestream.com/internetsociety/12days08/</a></div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;"><br
                        class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">Larry,
                      incidentally, has left ISOC to work as Policy
                      Director for US Presidential candidate Pete
                      Buttigieg</div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;"><br
                        class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;"> joly<br
                        class="">
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br class="">
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 29,
                      2019 at 4:42 PM Ian Peter <<a
                        href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true" class="">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>>
                      wrote:<br class="">
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px
                      0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px;
                      border-left-style: solid; border-left-color:
                      rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
                      <div class="">I am interested to know of examples
                        of nation states that might have reasonable to
                        good practices for involving civil society and
                        the private sector in internet related policy
                        development, along the lines perhaps of the
                        ancient WSIS definition of "on an equal
                        footing".
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">Is anyone doing this this other
                          than in a token fashion? A few years ago we
                          had a good example with Brazil, but a change
                          of government changed that. What are our good
                          examples now, or don't they exist?</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">Ian</div>
                      </div>
                      ---<br class="">
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                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <br class="" clear="all">
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  --<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
                    class="">
                  <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="">
                      <div class="">---------------------------------------------------------------<br
                          class="">
                        <span class="">Joly MacFie <span
                            class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
                            title="Call with Google Voice" class="">218
                            565 9365</span><span
                            class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
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                            href="skype:punkcast" moz-do-not-send="true">Skype:punkcast</a></span><br
                          class="">
--------------------------------------------------------------<br
                          class="">
                        -</div>
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                </blockquote>
                <br class="">
                <div class="moz-signature">--<span
                    class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
                  
                  <div class=""><font class="">Tamir Israel<br class="">
                      Staff Lawyer<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Samuelson-Glushko Canadian Internet Policy &
                      Public Interest Clinic (CIPPIC)<br class="">
                      University of Ottawa | Faculty of Law | CML
                      Section<br class="">
                      57 Louis Pasteur Street<br class="">
                      Ottawa | ON | K1N 6N5<br class="">
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                      Fax: +1 613-562-5417<br class="">
                      PGP Key:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://cippic.ca/documents/keys/tisrael@cippic.ca-pub.txt"
                        class="" moz-do-not-send="true">0x7F01E2C7</a><br
                        class="">
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                      <br class="">
                    </font><strong class=""><font class="" size="2"
                        face="calibri" color="008000">♺ Do you really
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">---
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      <div> <font ;="" color="000000">Tamir Israel<br>
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