<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
I would second David's point but would suggest that these two types
of processes are both worth tracking independently.<br>
<br>
I'll just add that I don't personally have any recent examples from
Canada of the latter ('in their respective roles') that were
meaningful, unless you count regulatory processes. <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Tamir<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-10-31 9:30 a.m.,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:david_allen_ab63@post.harvard.edu">david_allen_ab63@post.harvard.edu</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:6893C961-ED4E-4B91-8287-E7EEDAE56D1A@post.harvard.edu">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="">With appreciation, Ian, for your bringing to the
surface this important discussion.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I believe those of us with a history in these
matters, going back some years now, know pretty clearly one of
the distinctions.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">"In respective roles" acknowledges that, for
democracy to work, representatives elected by the people make
the final policy choice. Where the deliberative process, leading
up to that policy choice, must also necessarily bring energetic
input from the people, in this case represented now by the
notion of civil society. Only then, with active citizen
participation, is there any prospect for real democracy.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">"On an equal footing" disrupts this careful process
of deliberation, then choice by elected representatives. Indeed,
leaves no actual process.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">And indeed, division directly on this matter led
to the creation of key groups in the civil society sphere.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">Again, with appreciation.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">David</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 30, 2019, at 5:30 PM, Ian Peter <<a
href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">Thanks everyone who
responded so far - I was interested to learn that we do
have some reasonable examples of government co-operating
with civil society and private sector in policy
development: at a national level- and to learn that<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="http://cgi.br/" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">cgi.br</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is still alive.</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">We can debate forever
what terms like "multistakeholderism", "enhanced
co-operation", "respective roles" and "equal footing"
mean, but I remain convinced that the only path to
effective cooperation on the complex policy issues we face
with the evolving internet will be all parties working
co-operatively on policy evolution - both within national
borders, and also across these borders on a global basis.</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">I should mention that my
questions were prompted by attending Australia's Netthing
event (<a href="https://netthing.org.au/"
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://netthing.org.au/</a>).
My impression after that was that the government here
wanted to be seen to be co-operating with other
stakeholders, but either was doing this in a tokenistic
fashion or wasn't quite sure how to go about it. So some
good examples from elsewhere might be very useful!</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">Ian Peter</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">------ Original Message
------</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">From: "Tamir" <<a
href="mailto:tisrael@cippic.ca" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">tisrael@cippic.ca</a>></div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">To:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">governance@lists.riseup.net</a></div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">Sent: 31/10/2019 3:56:02
AM</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">Subject: Re: [governance]
Good examples of muiltistakeholder policy development at a
national level?</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div id="x4daefd27eb64456" style="font-family: "Segoe
UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<blockquote
cite="x-msg://32/6e7eff25-5a70-910b-ea55-a31944fa3bb8@cippic.ca"
type="cite" class="cite2" style="margin-left: 5px;
margin-right: 0px; padding-left: 10px; padding-right:
0px; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); margin-top: 3px;
padding-top: 0px;">I can speak a bit to the Canadian IoT
initiative.<br class="">
<br class="">
This process was largely guided/hosted by ISOC, CIRA
(our ccTLD) and ISED, which is our industry/innovation
department. The process went really well, and the
government participants definitely engaged on equal
footing.<br class="">
<br class="">
There were also government officials, civil society reps
and business reps in the actual working groups that
drove most of the work. There too, it was definitely an
equal footing exchange.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best regards,<br class="">
Tamir<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-10-30 12:51 p.m.,
Joly MacFie wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAM9VJk0J=PafG4fsFJJi+NeBMQwagNpSRZOAM0qWBvm+qZ2-XQ@mail.gmail.com"
class="cite" style="margin-left: 5px; margin-right:
0px; padding-left: 10px; padding-right: 0px;
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">The
Canada IoT Security process, fostered by ISOC's NA
Bureau, appeared to be a success <a
href="https://iotsecurity2018.ca/"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://iotsecurity2018.ca/</a> </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;"><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">Here
is video of Larry Strickling's introductory
comments <a
href="https://livestream.com/internetsociety/12days08/"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://livestream.com/internetsociety/12days08/</a></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;"><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;">Larry,
incidentally, has left ISOC to work as Policy
Director for US Presidential candidate Pete
Buttigieg</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;"><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: small;"> joly<br
class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 29,
2019 at 4:42 PM Ian Peter <<a
href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px;
border-left-style: solid; border-left-color:
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="">I am interested to know of examples
of nation states that might have reasonable to
good practices for involving civil society and
the private sector in internet related policy
development, along the lines perhaps of the
ancient WSIS definition of "on an equal
footing".
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Is anyone doing this this other
than in a token fashion? A few years ago we
had a good example with Brazil, but a change
of government changed that. What are our good
examples now, or don't they exist?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ian</div>
</div>
---<br class="">
To unsubscribe: <mailto:<a
href="mailto:igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="">igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net</a>><br
class="">
List help: <<a href="https://riseup.net/lists"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://riseup.net/lists</a>><br
class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="" clear="all">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">---------------------------------------------------------------<br
class="">
<span class="">Joly MacFie <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
title="Call with Google Voice" class="">218
565 9365</span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="skype:punkcast" moz-do-not-send="true">Skype:punkcast</a></span><br
class="">
--------------------------------------------------------------<br
class="">
-</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">---
To unsubscribe: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net></a>
List help: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://riseup.net/lists" moz-do-not-send="true"><https://riseup.net/lists></a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<div class="moz-signature">--<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<div class=""><font class="">Tamir Israel<br class="">
Staff Lawyer<br class="">
<br class="">
Samuelson-Glushko Canadian Internet Policy &
Public Interest Clinic (CIPPIC)<br class="">
University of Ottawa | Faculty of Law | CML
Section<br class="">
57 Louis Pasteur Street<br class="">
Ottawa | ON | K1N 6N5<br class="">
☎: +1 613-562-5800 x 2914<br class="">
Fax: +1 613-562-5417<br class="">
PGP Key:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://cippic.ca/documents/keys/tisrael@cippic.ca-pub.txt"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">0x7F01E2C7</a><br
class="">
PGP Fingerprint: 871C 31EC B6CC 3029 A1A1 14C4
D119 76EC 7F01 E2C7<br class="">
<br class="">
</font><strong class=""><font class="" size="2"
face="calibri" color="008000">♺ Do you really
need to print this email? / Est-ce nécessaire
d’imprimer ce courriel?</font></strong></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">---</span><br style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Segoe UI";
font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">To unsubscribe: <</span><a
href="mailto:igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
style="font-family: "Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net</a><span
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Segoe
UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">></span><br style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Segoe UI";
font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">List help: <</span><a
href="https://riseup.net/lists" style="font-family:
"Segoe UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://riseup.net/lists</a><span
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Segoe
UI"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">---
To unsubscribe: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"><mailto:igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net></a>
List help: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://riseup.net/lists"><https://riseup.net/lists></a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<div> <font ;="" color="000000">Tamir Israel<br>
Staff Lawyer<br>
<br>
Samuelson-Glushko Canadian Internet Policy & Public
Interest Clinic (CIPPIC)<br>
University of Ottawa | Faculty of Law | CML Section<br>
57 Louis Pasteur Street<br>
Ottawa | ON | K1N 6N5<br>
☎: +1 613-562-5800 x 2914<br>
Fax: +1 613-562-5417<br>
PGP Key: <a
href="https://cippic.ca/documents/keys/tisrael@cippic.ca-pub.txt">0x7F01E2C7</a><br>
PGP Fingerprint: 871C 31EC B6CC 3029 A1A1 14C4 D119 76EC 7F01
E2C7<br>
<br>
</font><strong><font size="2" face="calibri" color="008000">♺ Do
you really need to print this email? / Est-ce nécessaire
d’imprimer ce courriel?</font></strong></div>
</div>
</body>
</html>