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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/07/19 11:02 PM, Mueller, Milton L
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ECDFB720-2B2A-40A4-9BC2-E374C6936A74@gatech.edu">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
What Sheetal says below is correct in my opinion. We are in fact
trying to merge BB and IGC. </blockquote>
<p>Only loosely speaking, formally from IGC point of view, there is
no merging happening... Some new people want to join IGC, and if
conditions are fulfilled they are indeed welcome.</p>
<p> If there is anything more? If so, everyone involved, please
state it out here, explicitly, on the IGC's primary working space.
Why are we going in so many circles about it?</p>
<p>Lately, two specific, and what I consider minor, issues have been
stated. <br>
</p>
<p>1. Can enough time be given to elections so that the new members
can go through their 2 month cooling period.... I said that can be
done, and there has been no major opposition to it (Although,
frankly, if you ask me, I really do not understand why this hurry
and absolute insistence on voting right away . That should not be
such a big thing. Cooling periods are there for a reason. People
who havent ever been on the IGC need to observe, see and know and
mingle before insisting on some absolute rights to vote for their
choice of coordinator. So, why, really this insistence ? What is
the plan? But anyway, I really said I am fine either way.)<br>
</p>
<p>2. What to do with BB's web archives, and again there is not much
problem with it. Whenever we have a working IGC website, we can
put them somewhere on it, no problem.</p>
<p>What else? Is there anything more? Why dont people tell us
clearly, rather than going in circles and creating so much
confusion. <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ECDFB720-2B2A-40A4-9BC2-E374C6936A74@gatech.edu">We are
trying to create a more unified civil society presence. We don’t
do that by throwing up procedural walls around this group.</blockquote>
<p>Can you be explicit? what procedural walls are blocking BB people
-- other than those who already are there-- from joining IGC, ?<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ECDFB720-2B2A-40A4-9BC2-E374C6936A74@gatech.edu"> Face
facts, IGC needs the people from BB just as much as they need us.
It is destructive, as Sheetal says, to disregard the process we
have been going through to bring things back together. </blockquote>
<p>What process is being disregarded, the one about which yesterday
Arsene reported that it was decided that elections will be held
after (1) the IGC charter is amended (and I have been asking what
is this, who triggered this demand, with what objectives, what
justifications, and so on, and people simply refuse to answer),
and (2) when their is a combined list (sorry, IGC is not a list,
one has to individually take its membership with an explicit
individual-based process, there is no merging or combining lists
here) .</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ECDFB720-2B2A-40A4-9BC2-E374C6936A74@gatech.edu"> I hope
I don’t need to remind people why a significant chunk of civil
society broke off from IGC to begin with - but it looks like
certain actors are doing the reminding for me.
</blockquote>
<p>Sure, Milton, since you are now going towards a confrontational
abyss, please do remind us. (Btw, I was among the founding
members of BB, and I remember you werent around that much in those
discussions). In fact any coming back of BB member to IGC -- if
you really think so --should perhaps be helped by visiting the
original conditions of why they went away and so on... We are
capable of an adult conversation here, and should not be afraid.
Important public facts are always good to know and discuss. And
then one may also discuss what happened with BB, whether they were
able to achieve the objectives they set themselves for, if not,
why, and what are the reasons of BB's dissolution and coming back
to an IGC, which admittedly is far weaker and lost now than when
they left it. <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ECDFB720-2B2A-40A4-9BC2-E374C6936A74@gatech.edu">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is exclusionary to hold elections now, before the
newcomers can vote. Can someone tell me what positive goal is
achieved by doing that? Can someone tell me what is lost if we
don’t hold elections? </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Any newcomer needs just 2 months of membership to vote.. No one
really is insisting that we hold elections like today . But this
certainly cannot be the reason for a process that you / Sheetal
are saying has been on for more than 6 months now. That would be
so very illogical, no..... Is just the issue of eligibility for
voting stopping the process, but why labour it over 7 months when
it needs just 2 months cooling period? -- Although it does make me
wonder, and I repeat, why such a strong focus on the coordinator
election!! IGC is much more than that... Why such insistence!!?
What does one read into it. <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ECDFB720-2B2A-40A4-9BC2-E374C6936A74@gatech.edu">
<div>
<div>Do some people like for IGC to be a small and hostile place
where they can be a big fish in a small pond? I hope not. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>(Just to match) Or are some people planning to make IGC their
private pond. I hope not. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>parminder <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ECDFB720-2B2A-40A4-9BC2-E374C6936A74@gatech.edu">
<div>
<div><br>
<div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Milton L Mueller
<div>Professor, School of Public Policy</div>
<div>Georgia Institute of Technology</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
On Jul 17, 2019, at 14:07, Sheetal Kumar <<a
href="mailto:sheetal@gp-digital.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">sheetal@gp-digital.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear all, <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I agree that it is easy to join IGC if you sign up
to the Charter. It's indeed pretty straightforward.
However, what I don't understand is the disregard for
a process that has been ongoing for months, about a
large and until recently active splinter group of IGC
(namely, Bestbits) which has since agreed to close and
its members who are not already part of IGC 'join
IGC'. Bestbits was not just a mailing list, it had an
active membership, it had a functioning website, it
had a steering group, it used to coordinate, and more.
It also had its own membership of the CSCG and used to
convene an event before the global IGF. And now it is
closing. Who knows how many people who have been part
of that discussion or at least following on Bestbits
who are not on IGC would like to be part of the IGC
elections? Whether its semantic or not to call it a
'merger', the point remains that this has been a
discussion for a few months that should, IMHO, have an
impact on when to hold the IGC elections. They don't
have to, but I think it makes sense for them to
considering the history of IGC and Bestbits (as a
splinter group of IGC). Also, I'm not saying this
because I want to run for any elections necessarily,
I've only ever been interested a discussion towards a
more impactful and coordinated civil society in this
space. It just seems to make sense not to disregard
that Bestbits discussion and to take decisions with
the Bestbits discussion in mind (again, because of the
history of the connection between Bestbits and IGC).<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've looked at the IGC Charter and it says "Voting
process: Each person who is subscribed to the list at
least two (2) months before the election will be given
a voter account".
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, even if Bestbits members who are not part of
IGC joined then they couldn't vote right away.
Shouldn't we wait for 2-3 months? If there is a time
sensitive reason not to, that would be good to
discuss.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For clarity, revising the IGC charter was only ever
an idea, its not been agreed to anywhere by anyone.
It's just something to discuss, further down the line.
Perhaps.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best</div>
<div>Sheetal<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 at
12:40, Nnenna Nwakanma <<a
href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">governance@lists.riseup.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I think we can pull off an IGC elections by
Berlin IGF.<br>
</div>
Joining the IGC from BB should not be "a process".<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Once an individual decides that it is worth
it.. it only takes a click to accept the charter
and be added to the mailing list.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>My 2 cents</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nnenna<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 17,
2019 at 11:36 AM Suresh Ramasubramanian <<a
href="mailto:suresh@hserus.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">suresh@hserus.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-IN">
<div
class="gmail-m_3561223288472794221gmail-m_-1884700876395715120WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Much to my surprise
I agree with Parminder. If Bestbits is to
be wound up, so be it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>After which, those
from Bestbits who wish to caucus in the
IGC please subscribe to the list and do
so.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div style="border-color:rgb(181,196,223)
currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid
none none;border-width:1pt medium
medium;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><<a
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.riseup.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">governance-request@lists.riseup.net</a>>
on behalf of parminder <<a
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">parminder@itforchange.net</a>><br>
<b>Reply to: </b>parminder <<a
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">parminder@itforchange.net</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, 17 July 2019 at
4:50 pm<br>
<b>To: </b>Arsène Tungali <<a
href="mailto:arsenebaguma@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">arsenebaguma@gmail.com</a>>,
Sheetal Kumar <<a
href="mailto:sheetal@gp-digital.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sheetal@gp-digital.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a
href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>"
<<a
href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>>,
"Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" <<a
href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>>,
governance <<a
href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">governance@lists.riseup.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [governance]
Reviving IGC: Merging Bestbits in, IGF
Day zero event and other subjects</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 17/07/19 3:25 PM,
Arsène Tungali wrote:<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<pre>Good point, Sheetal and I agree with you.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>I had briefly discussed the election issue with Bruna during the last</pre>
<pre>ICANN meeting and we agreed that the best time to conduct co-co</pre>
<pre>elections is right after the merger step is completed, the new charter</pre>
<pre>has been adopted and we have a unified list. I am sure Bruna was</pre>
<pre>planning to report this to the list at some point, but here you are.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Arsene</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
am not sure what you mean about a unified
list...</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">There
is a clear, and rather easy, way to join
the IGC, and it is up to to those in
Bestbits and not already in IGC to take
that route if they want to. Meanwhile we
do welcome all civil society members
adhering to iGC's charter (rather than
insisting for, unclear and unstated
reasons, to modify it).
</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">And
there is really no merger involved here,
even if people loosely use that language .</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
remain astonished about the repeated talk
about a new IGC charter, especially as an
already decided thing! What exactly are
you talking about.
</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">And
I am further pained for you, being still
perhaps an IGC co-coordinator, not at all
responding to my clear email about how
this elist is the primary work place for
the IGC, and also an ex-coordinator's
assent tp the sentiment.</span></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<pre> </pre>
<pre>I would suggest we all plan to attend the call and agree on next steps.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">You
can make whatever calls and agree on
whatever steps you have you may wish to --
that is no part of IGC's procedure, and
would have no meaning or consequence for
it.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">regards</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">parminder
</span></p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Regards,</pre>
<pre>Arsene</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>2019-07-17 11:44 UTC+02:00, Sheetal Kumar <a href="mailto:sheetal@gp-digital.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><sheetal@gp-digital.org></a>:</pre>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<pre>Dear all,</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>While the closure of Bestbits is an internal matter for Bestbits, we have</pre>
<pre>agreed for it to be closed and so I'd say any IGC conversations need to</pre>
<pre>take that into account. We're at that point where the closure has been</pre>
<pre>agreed but there are still people on Bestbits who are not on IGC but likely</pre>
<pre>will sign up to be part of the discussions soon.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>As such, shouldn't we wait for those from Bestbits who want to join to join</pre>
<pre>and we can then get the IGC coordinator elections going? The call to agree</pre>
<pre>next steps and make sure everyone is on the same page is going to be w/c</pre>
<pre>August 5.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Best</pre>
<pre>Sheetal</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 at 06:29, <a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><ian.peter@ianpeter.com></a></pre>
<pre>wrote:</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<pre>Bruna,</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>On a more substantive matter -</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Can you also advise us on how progress is going as regards getting the</pre>
<pre>IGC</pre>
<pre>Coordinator elections (which were due last January) underway? On June 26</pre>
<pre>you advised the list that you. would be talking to Arsene and would get</pre>
<pre>back to the list ASAP. Do you have an update?</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Ian Peter</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>------ Original Message ------</pre>
<pre>From: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" <a href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><governance@lists.riseup.net></a></pre>
<pre>To: "Parminder" <a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><parminder@itforchange.net></a></pre>
<pre>Cc: "governance" <a href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><governance@lists.riseup.net></a></pre>
<pre>Sent: 17/07/2019 2:14:13 PM</pre>
<pre>Subject: Re: [governance] Reviving IGC: Merging Bestbits in, IGF Day zero</pre>
<pre>event and other subjects</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Agree with Parminder.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>On Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 5:11 am parminder, <a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><parminder@itforchange.net></a></pre>
<pre>wrote:</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<pre>HI Bruna/ All</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Good morning to all!</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Bestbits' merging into the IGC is their internal matter.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>As for a day zero event at the IGF for the IGC, when do you plan it...</pre>
<pre>Just Net Coalition has an event post lunch on day zero, and please</pre>
<pre>ensure</pre>
<pre>that these do not clash. Thanks.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>While as a secondary or adjunct method call based discussions can be</pre>
<pre>done</pre>
<pre>among however wishes to do so, the charter clearly says that the main</pre>
<pre>and</pre>
<pre>authoritative space of IGC's work will be this e-list, which I request</pre>
<pre>everyone's attention to.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>thanks and best regards</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>parminder</pre>
<pre>On 17/07/19 7:32 AM, Bruna Martins dos Santos (via </pre>
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