<div dir="ltr">Dear Sheetal and colleagues,<div>Would it clarify matters to ask those who have been taking an interest in this process to identify themselves as being "members" of IGC, of Bestbits or of both?</div><div>For myself I have signed up for both IGC and Bestbits, and consider myself to be a "member" of both in so far as I receive messages from both groups and from time to time post to discussions in both groups.</div><div>We need to remember that there are other civil society groups in this interest area which have other criteria for membership.</div><div>Best wishes to all</div><div>Deirdre</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 12:29, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" <<a href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net">governance@lists.riseup.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Hope you are well Sheetal.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">There is usually a list of members on the IGC website which describes those who can vote or not as per charter depending on whether they participated in the elections and voted.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The IGC alongwith others should have a day 0 event at the IGF.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 24 Jun 2019, 5:25 pm Sheetal Kumar, <<a href="mailto:sheetal@gp-digital.org" target="_blank">sheetal@gp-digital.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Sala, all, <br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for the reply! So we can continue the conversation on the proposal included at the beginning of this thread in the other thread which includes Bestbits members. I actually have no idea who is part of both as there are definitely members of Bestbits who are not members of IGC and vice versa, but I know there is some discrepancy. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Best<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 17:20, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <<a href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Best Bits is dead. Members of Best Bits are also members on IGC and if some are'nt there is nothing stopping them from joining the IGC, if they wished to do so.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 24 Jun 2019, 5:15 pm Sheetal Kumar, <<a href="mailto:sheetal@gp-digital.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">sheetal@gp-digital.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear all <br></div><div><br></div><div>Apologies for the delay in responding - I've been away for a week and I trust you received my OOO. Reading through the comments, it seems to me there is more or less agreement on some things but less on others. In essence:<br></div><ul><li>There seems to be agreement that reviving IGC is a good thing because there's a lot of work to be done by CS on important IG issues on the global agenda/at global forums</li><li>There's some agreement that merging BB with IGC would be a good way forward to accomplish that but concern that the appropriate process hasn't been followed within IGC, albeit there is disagreement about what that process would/could be<br></li><li>There's agreement that all documents, from both lists, should be preserved and centralised for easy access by all members</li><li>There support for organising a day 0 event at the IGF in Berlin<br></li><li>There's less agreement that there's a need to review the IGC Charter  </li></ul><div>Hopefully this captures the conversation so far?<br></div><div><br></div><div>I've also read the responses on the thread which includes Bestbits and although there are only a few responses there, combined with the views of those who attended the meeting at RightsCon, I think we can say that there is general support from the Bestbits list members for merging so far. <br></div><div><br></div><div>As such, I'd suggest the following as a way forward, interested to hear what others think if you don't agree: <br></div><div><ul><li>If there isn't agreement on the diagnosis of the problem, we can start the discussion anew. It's important we all agree on the premise we're working on, otherwise we'll move forward leaving people behind and just recreate the current situation again. Currently the diagnosis of those engaged, and the basis of those who attended the meeting at RightsCon, is that civil society working on IG issues is split/fragmented and therefore less effective than it could be. If anyone disagrees with this diagnosis, I think they should express this on the thread with Bestbits included<br></li><li>If anyone is against the merger as a way of addressing this issue (i.e split/fragmentation as a key factor which explains our ineffectiveness) I think this should be expressed on the Bestbits thread too - mainly because of the general support for the idea of merging among members of both lists, and the main concern currently expressed about the merger being about process. Otherwise, the conversations will continue to be split and the current situation will be perpetuated. <br></li><li>If anyone is against the idea of reforming the Charter <i>in principle</i> they make that clear in the thread with Bestbits too - as there maybe Bestbits members who have opinions on that as well. This is just a conversation so if there is strong disagreement about reforming the Charter among anyone in either list, we could potentially agree not to reform it and revisit the idea in a year, for example. <br></li></ul><div>Unless there's disagreement, I'll send a reminder to the thread which includes Bestbits at the end of this week, and hopefully we can weave ourselves back together there?<br></div></div><div><br></div><div>Best</div><div>Sheetal<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 22:45, Anriette Esterhuysen <<a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Agree completely with you on this Milton. And as Farzi pointed
      out, of course we should preserve the documents on the Best Bits
      site, and the list archives.<br>
    </p>
    <p>By the way, if anyone wants the archives of the IGC lists I have
      pretty complete records for 2009-2016. Probably earlier too but on
      a back-up drive somewhere. I also think that the list archive of
      the list when it was still hosted by APC is still available
      somewhere too.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Anriette<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <pre class="gmail-m_-637920311698697436m_-6866325458120569367gmail-m_-6561981442220996983m_-1554365702357811972gmail-m_994286657113565900gmail-m_5061438314120056126moz-signature" cols="72">-----------------------------
Anriette Esterhuysen
Senior advisor on internet governance, policy advocacy and strategic planning
Association for Progressive Communications
<a href="http://apc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">apc.org</a>
<a href="http://afrisig.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">afrisig.org</a>
<a class="gmail-m_-637920311698697436m_-6866325458120569367gmail-m_-6561981442220996983m_-1554365702357811972gmail-m_994286657113565900gmail-m_5061438314120056126moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a></pre>
    <div class="gmail-m_-637920311698697436m_-6866325458120569367gmail-m_-6561981442220996983m_-1554365702357811972gmail-m_994286657113565900gmail-m_5061438314120056126moz-cite-prefix">On 2019/06/17 23:08, Mueller, Milton L
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      
      
      <div class="gmail-m_-637920311698697436m_-6866325458120569367gmail-m_-6561981442220996983m_-1554365702357811972gmail-m_994286657113565900gmail-m_5061438314120056126WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Really
            good point, Sheetal.
            <u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">But
            it is actually a substantive one. You have pointed out that
            there are divergent perceptions of the discussion, and this
            is happening because the lists are not integrated. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">So
            how can anyone seriously suggest that we do not need to
            merge these lists? How can anyone truly concerned with civil
            society influence favor maintaining this stupid barrier
            between the groups involved? <u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">--MM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Dear all, <u></u><u></u></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Without wanting to weigh in on the
              substantive discussion being had here, I was just
              wondering if it was a purposeful decision to drop Bestbits
              in some of these replies. It seems there are two divergent
              perceptions of the discussion happening. Happy for IGC to
              have its discussion but at some point, those on Bestbits
              who are not on IGC will need to be updated as I believe
              there are some Bestbits members who have only seen one
              side of the conversation. Otherwise, I'm happy to loop
              Bestbits back in, and share the conversation that has
              already happened?<u></u><u></u></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Best<u></u><u></u></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Sheetal.<u></u><u></u></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 11:03, Carolina
              Rossini <<a href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">carolina.rossini@gmail.com</a>>
              wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">I did not say anybody was
                  suggesting anything.  It was just a reminder.<u></u><u></u></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Tks <u></u><u></u></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 9:42 AM
                    farzaneh badii <<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>>
                    wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
                </div>
                <blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">@Carolina
                          (Hello!) I don't think anyone here is
                          suggesting that BestBits documents, materials
                          etc will not be preserved. It is only a matter
                          of how we should preserve them when we carry
                          out the merge. (Jeremy has been wanting to
                          transfer the domain name for the past  I think
                          around 3 years, no one wants to take over, so
                          we definitely need a plan), we can for example
                          decide on having the materials stored on
                          future IGC website. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">As
                          to changes to the IGC charter, as Sheetal
                          explained and it is in the proposal, the
                          changes are going to be lightweight but if IGC
                          charter recommends a process for amendment,
                          then we should follow that. I still support
                          forming a small group to look into these
                          issues and let us know how we should proceed.
                          Even if we don't agree to change the charter,
                          we can consider what new features IGC should
                          possess in order to address the needs of its
                          members and those members that are migrating
                          from BestBits and generally more engagement
                          with IG processes. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">As
                          to the poll among BestBits members, that is
                          something you need to discuss with BestBits.
                          Just a reminder that both groups have been in
                          my opinion briefed and engaged with the
                          conversation. We did not just have a meeting
                          with 11 members. Since December 2018, IGC and
                          BestBits held meetings about this, a survey
                          was taken to see what BestBits members think
                          (the average attendance in those meetings was
                          something like 15 members, Sheetal shared a
                          comprehensive result of the survey). <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">@Sala
                          thank you for your kind words. I believe in
                          collective action and am glad that you found
                          the briefings and reports useful. InternetNZ's
                          help was crucial in making that happen.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Christchurch
                          call was one instance when the civil society
                          got together and showed its depth of expertise
                          and knowledge about Internet governance
                          issues. So we definitely can get it together
                          and act collectively. It's just a matter of
                          how, which I am sure we solve if we keep at it
                          and have these conversations. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Farzaneh
                              </span>
                              <u></u><u></u></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 3:42
                        AM Carolina Rossini <<a href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">governance@lists.riseup.net</a>>
                        wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">I disagree with you Ian.
                            A pool is needed among the BB members. There
                            are more than 11. <u></u><u></u></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">And for the BB folks, and
                            it’s is not only the mailing list. BB site
                            has a lot of good material and statements
                            that should be captured and saved. <u></u><u></u></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Sorry I could not make to
                          the meeting. You can only imagine how busy I
                          am.<u></u><u></u></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Tks Sheetal for moving this
                          forward with all the delicate and sensitive
                          touch it does deserve. <u></u><u></u></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">C<u></u><u></u></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at
                              5:20 AM <a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
                                ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a> <<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>>
                              wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">No poll needed.
                                  Best Bits closes down (their call).
                                  Former members join IGC individually.
                                  End of story. <u></u><u></u></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">But fixing the IGC
                                  constitution (a later step) is more
                                  complex as Sala points out.<u></u><u></u></p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">Ian.<u></u><u></u></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">------ Original
                                  Message ------<u></u><u></u></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">From: "Salanieta T.
                                  Tamanikaiwaimaro" <<a href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">governance@lists.riseup.net</a>><u></u><u></u></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">To: "Sheetal Kumar"
                                  <<a href="mailto:sheetal@gp-digital.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">sheetal@gp-digital.org</a>><u></u><u></u></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">Cc: "Bakhtiyor
                                  Avezdjanov" <<a href="mailto:ba2482@columbia.edu" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ba2482@columbia.edu</a>>;
                                  "Lee W McKnight" <<a href="mailto:lmcknigh@syr.edu" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">lmcknigh@syr.edu</a>>;
                                  "Tapani Tarvainen" <<a href="mailto:tapani.tarvainen@effi.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">tapani.tarvainen@effi.org</a>>;
                                  "Sivasubramanian M" <<a href="mailto:6.Internet@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">6.Internet@gmail.com</a>>;
                                  "Akinremi Peter Taiwo" <<a href="mailto:compsoftnet@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">compsoftnet@gmail.com</a>>;
                                  "governance" <<a href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">governance@lists.riseup.net</a>><u></u><u></u></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">Sent: 14/06/2019
                                  11:40:49 AM<u></u><u></u></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">Subject: Re:
                                  [governance] The proposal for closing
                                  Bestbits and merging with IGC + next
                                  steps (was "Follow-on from survey on
                                  the future of Bestbits: next steps")<u></u><u></u></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                              </div>
                              <div id="gmail-m_-637920311698697436m_-6866325458120569367gmail-m_-6561981442220996983m_-1554365702357811972gmail-m_994286657113565900gmail-m_5061438314120056126gmail-m_-8395251890500775361m_7577391105957002451gmail-m_-7797379912895899417m_-1872740080716854960x9bf5bd8e2a19445">
                                <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal">The IGC usually
                                      takes a poll led by elected
                                      co-coordinators to determine
                                      consensus. If post discussion and
                                      debate, consensusnis reached to
                                      merge then by all means.<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Nobody speaks
                                        for the IGC unless there is
                                        consensus, if you want to change
                                        the Charter, then there is a
                                        process to follow. It is meant
                                        to protect us. Members of Best
                                        Bits are members of the IGC
                                        anyway unless they left or
                                        unsubscribed.<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">One of the
                                        challenges, I have seen is the
                                        loss of important IGC data from
                                        the old servers. Every
                                        organsiation has to evolve,
                                        advance but this has to be based
                                        on consensus, and papers for and
                                        against, proper discussion and
                                        debate. From the outset, all I
                                        have seen is a presumption where
                                        the IGC has been forcibly roped
                                        into discussing mergers without
                                        the consensus.<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">The
                                        co-coordinators have not set a
                                        strategic pathway for engagement
                                        in key international fora as the
                                        IGC in the HLP session although
                                        I was to see great geographical
                                        representation by some members
                                        of the IGC in the.forum in their
                                        individual capacity.<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">I would also
                                        like to see the IGC working with
                                        the World Economic Forum etc and
                                        participating in the UN New York
                                        meetings, although some members
                                        participate in their
                                        organisational capacity. It is
                                        also significant that UNDESA
                                        reviews the global SDG projects
                                        and has a
                                        monitoring/evaluation/audit type
                                        role which it uses to review and
                                        report back to the UNGA.<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">On another
                                        separate, note, whilst Arden
                                        (bless her heart), and others
                                        have been royally pissed about
                                        making a dent in how global MNCs
                                        like Facebook behave in crisis,
                                        these are not new issues as they
                                        are.similar to historical
                                        discussion on the list about
                                        Brits imposing a temporary ban
                                        over a certain radius of the
                                        London bombing just as the
                                        Egyptians and others have done
                                        during times of national
                                        security. The Tech Accord which
                                        represents the committment and
                                        negotiations between MNCs, Tech
                                        Giants and some government reps
                                        as was shared by the former
                                        French Ambassador on Cyber
                                        affairs and others, it is on a
                                        transcript at a main session
                                        from last year.<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">The most New
                                        Zealand can do is impose a law
                                        in New Zealand against these
                                        giants.  Facebook's Mia in NZ
                                        who is based in the Sydney
                                        officer and global public policy
                                        counterparts have alot of work
                                        on their hands.<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">One view is
                                        that the threat to freedom of
                                        expression (which the IGC has
                                        always talked about is no
                                        respecter of whether you are
                                        from the East, West, South,
                                        North. The principles are well
                                        established in International law
                                        and Frank La Rue's report to the
                                        UN General Assembly which was
                                        endorsed is relevant. On the
                                        other hand, threats that Jeremy
                                        Malcolm and others have been
                                        raising on wordings and
                                        semantics on child pornography
                                        by a UN Drafting.committee show
                                        an example of new and emergent
                                        threats.<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Personally,
                                        even if Arden takes it to the
                                        UN, the UN is obliged and
                                        mandated not to duplicate work
                                        that is already done and to this
                                        end, the UN Secretary General's
                                        foresight in appointing the HLP
                                        and launching the report is key
                                        as geopolitical tensions are
                                        further heightened. I have yet
                                        to read the full HLP report, but
                                        if it is missing a FoX
                                        compoment, then a letter to the
                                        Co-Chairs, the UN Secretary
                                        General.may the faster non
                                        bureaucratic way to get
                                        traction.<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">What giants
                                        like Facebook would fear is
                                        being broken up for regulation!
                                        Frankly Macron is hated in
                                        France just as Trump is hated in
                                        the US for imposing taxes.<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">It would be
                                        great for the IGC to host and
                                        convene a panel to explore this.
                                        I would recommend Bertrand from
                                        Internet Jurisdiction to co
                                        facilitate and moderate a
                                        geographically diverse panel and
                                        a representative from the Geneva
                                        Internet Platform. I know
                                        Bertrand is speaking at a
                                        European Court of Human Rights
                                        with others.<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">We need to
                                        take a step back and reflect as
                                        a community how we want to
                                        engage. We cannot be reactive
                                        and we have to stay ahead of the
                                        curve.<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">2.36am so
                                        best be getting back to bed.<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Sala<u></u><u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                      </blockquote>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">---<br>
                              To unsubscribe: <mailto:<a href="mailto:igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net</a>><br>
                              List help: <<a href="https://riseup.net/lists" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://riseup.net/lists</a>><u></u><u></u></p>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:none 0% 0% repeat scroll white"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:none 0% 0% repeat scroll white"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Carolina
                                            Rossini </span></b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:none 0% 0% repeat scroll white"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">+ 1
                                            (617) 697 9389 | </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,102)">skype:
                                            carolrossini | </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:blue">@carolinarossini </span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:none 0% 0% repeat scroll white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,102)">PGP
                                            ID:  0xEC81015C</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">---<br>
                        To unsubscribe: <mailto:<a href="mailto:igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net</a>><br>
                        List help: <<a href="https://riseup.net/lists" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://riseup.net/lists</a>><u></u><u></u></p>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:none 0% 0% repeat scroll white"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:none 0% 0% repeat scroll white"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Carolina
                                  Rossini </span></b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:none 0% 0% repeat scroll white"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">+
                                  1 (617) 697 9389 | </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,102)">skype:
                                  carolrossini | </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:blue">@carolinarossini </span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:none 0% 0% repeat scroll white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,102)">PGP
                                  ID:  0xEC81015C</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
          <br>
          -- <u></u><u></u></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:rgb(136,136,136)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">Sheetal
                                                          Kumar</span></b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:rgb(136,136,136)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">Programme
                                                          Lead | GLOBAL
                                                          PARTNERS
                                                          DIGITAL</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:rgb(136,136,136)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,102)">Second
                                                          Home, 68-80
                                                          Hanbury
                                                          Street,
                                                          London, E1 5JL</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:rgb(136,136,136)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,102)">T: +44
                                                          (0)20 3 818
                                                          3258| M: +44
                                                          (0)7739569514  |
                                                          <br>
                                                          PGP ID:
                                                          E592EFBBEAB1CF31 
                                                          |
                                                          PGP Fingerprint:
                                                          F5D5 114D 173B
                                                          E9E2 0603 DD7F
                                                          E592 EFBB EAB1
                                                          CF31|
                                                          </span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:rgb(136,136,136)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="gmail-m_-637920311698697436m_-6866325458120569367gmail-m_-6561981442220996983m_-1554365702357811972gmail-m_994286657113565900gmail-m_5061438314120056126mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="gmail-m_-637920311698697436m_-6866325458120569367gmail-m_-6561981442220996983m_-1554365702357811972gmail-m_994286657113565900gmail-m_5061438314120056126moz-quote-pre">---
To unsubscribe: <a class="gmail-m_-637920311698697436m_-6866325458120569367gmail-m_-6561981442220996983m_-1554365702357811972gmail-m_994286657113565900gmail-m_5061438314120056126moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><mailto:igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net></a>
List help: <a class="gmail-m_-637920311698697436m_-6866325458120569367gmail-m_-6561981442220996983m_-1554365702357811972gmail-m_994286657113565900gmail-m_5061438314120056126moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://riseup.net/lists" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><https://riseup.net/lists></a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </div>

</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_-637920311698697436m_-6866325458120569367gmail-m_-6561981442220996983m_-1554365702357811972gmail-m_994286657113565900gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><br><div style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:12.8px"><font face="verdana, sans-serif" color="#073763"><b></b></font></div><div style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:12.8px"><font face="verdana, sans-serif" color="#073763"><b><br></b></font></div><div style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:12.8px"><font face="verdana, sans-serif" color="#073763"><b>Sheetal Kumar</b></font></div><div style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:12.8px"><font face="verdana, sans-serif" color="#073763">Programme Lead | GLOBAL PARTNERS DIGITAL</font><div><div><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">Second Home, 68-80 Hanbury Street, London, E1 5JL</font></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">T: +44 (0)20 3 818 3258</font><font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">| M: +44 (0)7739569514  | <br></font><span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1">PGP ID: E592EFBBEAB1CF31  </font></span></span><span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1"><span><font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">| </font></span>PGP Fingerprint: F5D5 114D 173B E9E2 0603 DD7F E592 EFBB EAB1 CF31</font></span></span><span><span><font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">| </font></span><br></span></span><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_-637920311698697436m_-6866325458120569367gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><br><div style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:12.8px"><font face="verdana, sans-serif" color="#073763"><b></b></font></div><div style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:12.8px"><font face="verdana, sans-serif" color="#073763"><b><br></b></font></div><div style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:12.8px"><font face="verdana, sans-serif" color="#073763"><b>Sheetal Kumar</b></font></div><div style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:12.8px"><font face="verdana, sans-serif" color="#073763">Programme Lead | GLOBAL PARTNERS DIGITAL</font><div><div><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">Second Home, 68-80 Hanbury Street, London, E1 5JL</font></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">T: +44 (0)20 3 818 3258</font><font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">| M: +44 (0)7739569514  | <br></font><span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1">PGP ID: E592EFBBEAB1CF31  </font></span></span><span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1"><span><font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">| </font></span>PGP Fingerprint: F5D5 114D 173B E9E2 0603 DD7F E592 EFBB EAB1 CF31</font></span></span><span><span><font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">| </font></span><br></span></span><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
---<br>
To unsubscribe: <mailto:<a href="mailto:igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" target="_blank">igc-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net</a>><br>
List help: <<a href="https://riseup.net/lists" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://riseup.net/lists</a>><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979</div>