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--></style></head><body lang=EN-IN link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>There has always – and not just today – been a wide variety of local and regional agreements for specific governance issues, IP address numbering and such.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The belt and road is a much larger strategic initiative that should deeply worry every other Asian country other than the ones coopted into it, but it’d be interesting if the Chinese have fit internet governance issues into that effort instead of a string of roads, ports etc built using Chinese funding and enabling them to achieve geopolitical dominance in the region.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><governance-request@lists.riseup.net> on behalf of Dave Burstein <daveb@dslprime.com><br><b>Reply-To: </b>Dave Burstein <daveb@dslprime.com><br><b>Date: </b>Friday, 2 February 2018 at 5:22 AM<br><b>To: </b>"suresh@hserus.net" <suresh@hserus.net><br><b>Cc: </b>parminder <parminder.js@gmail.com>, <governance@lists.riseup.net>, BestBitsList <bestbits@lists.bestbits.net>, "Forum@Justnetcoalition. Org" <forum@justnetcoalition.org><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [governance] [bestbits] UN Working Group considering mechanisms for global governance of Internet fails<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailOriginalBody"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Quickly<o:p></o:p></span></a></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>I didn't mean "a </span></span><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'>Marc Anthony’s funeral oration vibe" when I said I believe Parminder, Vint Cerf, and similar are taking their positions "honorably" because they fear any government involvement. No satire or implications. </span></span><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'><br><br></span></span><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>I do know the U.S. <u>government</u> position is a cold war revival. Larry Strickling, a lead of the U.S. government at WCIT explained their position by asking me, "Dave, do you want Russia and China running the Internet." I do, actually, alongside other nations. China is now 1/3rd of the Internet. A system that excludes them is unstable. (See the board of ICANN or ISOC.)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>As I predicted, what's happening is the excluded are building their alternate institutions: BRICs agreements, World Internet Conference, Belt & Road extending to Europe and Africa, Russia's alternate root. </span><a href="http://netpolicynews.com/index.php/component/content/article/89-r/941-russia-orders-alternate-internet-system"><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>http://netpolicynews.com/index.php/component/content/article/89-r/941-russia-orders-alternate-internet-system</span><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 6:37 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <</span><a href="mailto:suresh@hserus.net" target="_blank"><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>suresh@hserus.net</span><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div id="m_4948871526907627640compose-container"><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>I’m getting a strong Marc Anthony’s funeral oration vibe here when I read your email :)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>But how would moving all this mess to the UN make it multistakeholder? You’d just see a more government centric model, with most stakeholders kept away from policy making.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>Maybe some favoured civil society would get in based on how close they are to their individual governments but that’s about it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>And as for industry the traditional telecom players would have a disproportionate presence compared to most anyone else.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>There is a lot to carp and criticise over the existing model, but exchanging it for the UN would be that old Aesop fable of the fish getting king stork instead of king log.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>_____________________________<br>From: Dave Burstein <</span><a href="mailto:daveb@dslprime.com" target="_blank"><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>daveb@dslprime.com</span><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>><br>Sent: Friday, February 2, 2018 2:46 AM<br>Subject: Re: [governance] [bestbits] UN Working Group considering mechanisms for global governance of Internet fails<br>To: parminder <</span><a href="mailto:parminder.js@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>parminder.js@gmail.com</span><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>><br>Cc: <</span><a href="mailto:governance@lists.riseup.net" target="_blank"><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>governance@lists.riseup.net</span><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>>, BestBitsList <</span><a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank"><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</span><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>>, Forum@Justnetcoalition. Org <</span><a href="mailto:forum@justnetcoalition.org" target="_blank"><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>forum@justnetcoalition.org</span><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>(The euphemism is "only high order principles.) I'm sure folks like Vint Cerf support "multistakeholder" and "consensus" for honorable fear of governments. Knowing Parminder's work, I expect he's in that camp, also for honorable reasons. <o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>Editor, Fast Net News, Wireless One.news, Net Policy News and DSL Prime<br>Author with Jennie Bourne DSL (Wiley) and Web Video: Making It Great, Getting It Noticed (Peachpit)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>--- To unsubscribe: List help: </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>