<div dir="ltr"><div>Triangulation, especially in a crowded country like India, doesn't give exact location like GPS. Triangulation can be accurate to up to 5 thousand meters while GPS average is accurate to 3-30 meters generally speaking. and can be more enhanced in Android with Google default using of Wifi to support GPS accuracy. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div hspace="streak-pt-mark" style="max-height:1px"><img style="width:0px;max-height:0px;overflow:hidden" src="https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=aaXJjcHJlc2lkZW50QGdtYWlsLmNvbQ%3D%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=f1a6ccad-3ab6-4e69-92a1-17377f39ddf8"><font color="#ffffff" size="1">ᐧ</font></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div id="WISESTAMP_SIG_4c9496694d4fe4aa4df32e2e202d0c20" href="http://WISESTAMP_SIG_4c9496694d4fe4aa4df32e2e202d0c20"><div><div style="max-width:600px;direction:ltr" class="main_html date__2016_04_26___12_14"> <div class="html wisestamp_app main_sig" id="tp1s" style="max-width:470px;margin:8px 8px 8px 0"> <table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="470" style="width:470px"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td style="text-align:initial;font:14px Arial;color:#646464;padding:0 10px"> <div> <b class="text-color theme-font">Mohamed ElGohary</b><br> <span>Lingua Manager and Board Member</span>, <span>Global Voices</span> </div> <div style="color:#8d8d8d;font-size:13px;padding:5px 0"> <span style="display:inline-block"><a href="mailto:gohary@globalvoices.org" style="color:#8d8d8d;text-decoration:none" class="dly-gmail">gohary@globalvoices.org</a></span> <span style="color:#00a1e6;display:inline-block">|</span> <span style="white-space:nowrap;display:inline-block"><a href="http://globalvoices.org/lingua" target="_blank" style="color:#8d8d8d;text-decoration:none">http://globalvoices.org/lingua</a></span> <span style="color:#00a1e6;display:inline-block">|</span> <span style="display:inline-block"><span style="color:#8d8d8d">Skype: <a href="#" style="text-decoration:none;color:#8d8d8d">ircpresident</a></span></span> <span style="color:#00a1e6;display:inline-block">|</span> <span style="color:#8d8d8d">Email me at <a href="mailto:gohary@globalvoices.org">gohary@globalvoices.org</a></span> <span style="color:#00a1e6;display:inline-block">|</span> <span style="color:#8d8d8d">Follow me:</span> </div> <div style="margin-top:5px"><a href="http://globalvoices.org/author/Mohamed-ElGohary/" target="_blank"><img style="border-radius:0;moz-border-radius:0;khtml-border-radius:0;o-border-radius:0;webkit-border-radius:0;ms-border-radius:0;border: 0;width:16px" width="16px" height="16" src="https://s3.amazonaws.com/ucwebapp.wisestamp.com/5a68bd9d-111f-429e-b9d2-ba30f21772ad/1OvCrbQzOCopy.format_png.resize_32x32.png"></a> <a href="http://ircpresident.com" target="_blank"><img style="border-radius:0;moz-border-radius:0;khtml-border-radius:0;o-border-radius:0;webkit-border-radius:0;ms-border-radius:0;border: 0;width:16px" width="16px" height="16" src="https://s3.amazonaws.com/ucwebapp.wisestamp.com/8c068851-3fea-4a64-9e75-a8347a759560/favicon.format_png.resize_32x32.png"></a> <a href="http://facebook.com/ircpresident" target="_blank"><img style="border-radius:0;moz-border-radius:0;khtml-border-radius:0;o-border-radius:0;webkit-border-radius:0;ms-border-radius:0;border: 0;width:16px; 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We are <a href="http://globalvoices.org/lingua" target="_blank">Global Voices Lingua</a></span></div></div><div class="wisestamp_app promotion_button" style="max-width:469px;margin:8px 8px 0 0;font-size:12px"> <table style="max-width:469px"> <tbody><tr> <td width="1" valign="middle"> <a href="http://globalvoices.org/donate" target="_blank"><img src="https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/email-apps/promotion_button/promotion_button_2.png" style="margin-bottom: auto; margin-top: auto; margin-right: 4px"></a> </td> <td valign="top"> Donate to<a style="margin:0 4px" href="http://globalvoices.org/donate" target="_blank">Global Voices</a> </td> </tr> </tbody></table><br> </div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Sivasubramanian M <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Thank you for clarifying that you were talking about triangulation. I don't know much about the technology behind operating webcams and microphones remotely, so I searched and found this page:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif"><a href="http://www.cnet.com/news/many-ways-to-activate-webcams-sans-spy-software/" target="_blank">http://www.cnet.com/news/many-ways-to-activate-webcams-sans-spy-software/</a></font><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif">In this article, the sub-section titled "malware can turn on webcam" is what causes concern. This danger is explained in greater detail in the article <a href="http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/consumer-security/how-hackers-can-switch-on-your-webcam-and-control-your-computer-20130328-2gvwv.html" target="_blank">http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/consumer-security/how-hackers-can-switch-on-your-webcam-and-control-your-computer-20130328-2gvwv.html</a> </font></div><div class="gmail_default"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,sans-serif">My concern about GPS is on a similar abuse of technology. </span></div><div class="gmail_default"><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif">Thank you.</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif">Sivasubramanian M</font></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 10:01 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">george.sadowsky@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Siva,<div><br></div><div>I know nothing about turning on cameras or microphones remotely . My point was that if the phone is 'active' -- perhaps that's a better word -- and ready to receive a phone call, the network of base stations knows where it is through proximity and/or triangulation. It has to, because the network wouldn't work otherwise.</div><div><br></div><div>Georg</div><div><div><div><br></div><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Apr 26, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Sivasubramanian M <<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Dear Peng Hwa and George Sadowsky,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Thank you for your comments and pointers. If a camera or a microphone in a computer or phone can be remotely turned on, as George Sadowsky has pointed out, the controls could lie beyond the user's choice. There is also the possibility of the GPS chip in the phone is designed and programmed to enhance surveillance capabilities.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif">-- </span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif"><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif"><div dir="ltr"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy" target="_blank">Sivasubramanian M</a></div></div></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)"> </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 4:11 PM, George Sadowsky <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">george.sadowsky@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">The phone at lower levels is transmitting an ACK to the base stations that it "hears.". So the base station system can track the phone even though the phone is turned off at the user level.<span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>George</div></font></span><div><div><div><br></div><div> <br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Apr 26, 2016, at 2:32 AM, Ang Peng Hwa (Prof) <<a href="mailto:TPHANG@ntu.edu.sg" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">TPHANG@ntu.edu.sg</a>> wrote:</div><br><div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word;font-size:18px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>
<div>
<div>Pardon my ignorance but unless the GPS chip also transmits data, where is the privacy concern?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As I understand it, and of course I stand to be corrected, the GPS chip is passive in the sense that it collects signals from satellites to triangulate its position. If the phone then does not transmit the data via other apps no one will know where the
phone is.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If that is the case, it is the other apps that over-collects data, not the GPS chip. Already, there are many apps that, in over-enthusiastic collection of data, already violate privacy. The door has been open and the horse has long bolted.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Ang Peng Hwa</div>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span><<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>> on behalf of Sivasubramanian Muthusamy <<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"<a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>>, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy <<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, 26 April 2016 8:20 am<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"Arsene TUNGALI (Yahoo)" <<a href="mailto:arsenebaguma@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">arsenebaguma@yahoo.fr</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Said Zazai <<a href="mailto:saidsemail@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">saidsemail@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>>,
"Bits <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [governance] GPS mandatory on all mobile phones to be manufactured in India.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)">
Dear Arsene,</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)">
GPS makes navigation precise for the common man, and is of ample help in finding one's way even while walking in the streets. Parents could use GPS to ensure that their children are within safe bounds, and there are several such positive uses. Law and Order
agencies would certainly find it easier to track the elusive criminals and other elements. </div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)">
But the idea of surveillance over an entire population in order to enhance Law and Order capabilities over a just a few targets is a disturbing idea. Besides raising privacy concerns for the common man, it causes a totally different kind of security problem
for the average person, whose whereabouts are not only known to responsible officers of Law, but to a multitude of others who do find a way to access this data.</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)">
Sivasubramanian M</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 2:29 AM, Arsene TUNGALI (Yahoo) <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:arsenebaguma@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">arsenebaguma@yahoo.fr</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" type="cite">
Dear Siva and Said,
<div><br>
<div>Thanks for raising this issue and for sharing your thoughts and experience re: free wifi, surveilliance and gps chips.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Privacy is at stake here.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However, i would love to hear from you if there is any positivity that can be found in this practice. Is there any positive effect of having GPS in all phones?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would love to hear from you and anyone else interested in this topic.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>A<br>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>---------------------</div>
<div>Arsene Tungali,</div>
<div>IGC Co-coordinator</div>
<div>@arsenebaguma</div>
<div><a dir="ltr" href="tel:+243%20993810967" target="_blank">+243 993810967</a> (DRCongo)</div>
<a href="https://yho.com/footer0" target="_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a> (excuse typos and brievity)</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<br><p style="font-size:15px;color:rgb(113,95,250);padding-top:0px;margin-top:0px">On Monday, April 25, 2016, 5:56 PM, Said Zazai <<a href="mailto:saidsemail@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="dly-gmail">saidsemail@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>I was in Delhi last week and I was surprised to see that Free Wifi was given at the cost of giving away your mobile phone number which in turns is registered with a government ID usually. As a tourist with no active Indian number, wifi was not free for
me. I understand that free wifi is not a mandatory thing to have but a general practice in non-military or non-surveillance states is that there is some level of free internet at airports, shopping malls, coffee shops etc., which makes life a lot easier.<br clear="none">
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</div>
The mandatory gps chip in phones is yet another method of monitoring general public. I believe the government must have a reason to monitor or track an individual. Imagine someone walking right behind you and make notes of what you buy, how much you buy them
for, where you buy them, who you talk to and what you talk to them. As a child I would get highly uncomfortable when the bakery store owner would conclude that we had guests at home if i would buy more breads than usual and vice versa. The government does
not need to monitor all its citizens but only criminals and those suspicious but in a transparent manner and within legal framework.
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</div>
The enemy creation or exaggeration has allowed governments in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and many others i'm sure, to invest in technology that allows them to invade our privacy and general public sell their privacy for national security. For as long as their
is an "enemy" there will be government tracking us down to save us. <br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="none">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Sivasubramanian M <span dir="ltr">
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="color:rgb(41,47,51)">The government of India today made it mandatory for all mobile phone makers to install GPS chip sets in handsets from 2018</span><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(41,47,51)"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://twitter.com/CNBCTV18News/status/724611179956436992" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://twitter.com/CNBCTV18News/status/724611179956436992" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/CNBCTV18News/status/724611179956436992</a></span><span style="color:rgb(41,47,51)"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(41,47,51)"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(41,47,51)">Is this right from a privacy point of view? Also, while in enhances the ability of Governments to track the movements of its citizens, it exposes the mobile user to severe security risks, as the
GPS data is accessible and usable by a multitude of mobile applications, so the whereabouts of a mobile phone user is easily tracked by criminals as well.</span></div>
<span></span>
<div><span style="color:rgb(41,47,51)"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(41,47,51)">Sivasubramanian M</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy" target="_blank">Sivasubramanian M</a></div>
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