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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks for this very interesting reference Garth.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I have several points of disagreement (as well as points of agreement) but I think the major one and the one from which the other disagreements flow is the following:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>You say: <i>“</i><i><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'>the governance structuring complex adaptive systems, or self-organizing systems like the Internet, is internalized or distributed among the elements that make it up. <o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'>The parts of the whole system all contain within themselves simple rules of relationship <o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'>that govern the structure or patterns of behavior that the whole expresses in the world. <o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I think that it is possible to see the arrangements you are describing above in some idealized misty past of the Internet (or perhaps more likely an idealized misty vision of what the Internet could and should have been), but the reality as seen and experienced in “this is 2015” is, as I’m expecting that you will agree, rather different. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>What we see is governments globally attempting desperately (and frequently successfully) to “govern” their portion of the Internet; efforts towards global governance regimes which by enshrining either a “presence” or an “absence” of “management” structures ensure in either case that the future Internet will be managed by forces which have little or nothing to do with your “complex adaptive systems”; and finally we have the rapid emergence of global transnational corporate driven “platforms” which in their mode and content of governance mirror, challenge and supersede national (and supra-national) structures of governance in support of private corporate interests.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>You may wish for some sort of hidden hand as the ultimate governance dynamic of the Internet but I think it is rather more in the form of velvet gloves over (rapidly emerging if still to some degree emerging) fists of steel.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>M<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Garth Graham<br>Sent: December 22, 2015 9:27 AM<br>To: Internet Governance <governance@lists.igcaucus.org><br>Subject: Re: [governance] Text of Parminder's input</span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> On Dec 22, 2015, at 4:53 AM, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>parminder@itforchange.net</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> On Friday 18 December 2015 10:19 PM, Garth Graham wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:14 AM, anita <<a href="mailto:anita@itforchange.net"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>anita@itforchange.net</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>>>> Pl find the link to a video clip and the corresponding transcript here: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <a href="http://www.itforchange.net/UNGA_WSIS10"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>http://www.itforchange.net/UNGA_WSIS10</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>>> Parminder concludes:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>>>> …. left to itself the digital-network phenomenon will certainly be appropriated by the powerful and will result in an even more unequal and unfair world…<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>>>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>>> Whereas I would conclude: Left to a "democratic mechanism for global governance of the Internet” the digital-network phenomenon will certainly be appropriated by the democratic mechanism’s representatives. Centralizing the governance of a distributed system makes it far more subject to capture than by any other method.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> …….. If you really what the know what is distributed, bottom-up and so on, go to the people's movements in different areas, and forms like people's assemblies and the World Social Forum, and ask them if they agree with the globalisation's language of distributed, polycentric etc when it is used to destroy legitimate policy spaces! I am doing nothing other than extend that some logic to the IG space, where this problem has taken an even more vicious form. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> From: Mawaki Chango <<a href="mailto:kichango@gmail.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>kichango@gmail.com</span></a>><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Subject: Re: [governance] Text of Parminder's input<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Date: December 22, 2015 at 2:59:37 AM PST<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> …… The reluctance from some to apply the category of democracy to Internet governance stems from the limitations (and risks? dangers?) of democracy in their eyes. Is there a thoughtful - and as comprehensive as possible - articulation of those limitations, risks and/or dangers to be found somewhere? Do we think the two sets of concerns are irreconcilable?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>For me, it’s not so much a question of reconciliation within existing frameworks as it is a question of reframing the question. I have spent some time thinking about this. One of my recent attempts at summary might serve to flesh out the cryptic 2 sentences I posted, even it’s not a direct response to the concerns raised by Mawaki Chango and Parminder:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Garth Graham. Cooperating community connections: a changing political reality, October 7, 2014:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><a href="https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=49357134&preview=/49357134/49418555/connect.pdf"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=49357134&preview=/49357134/49418555/connect.pdf</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>GG<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>