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<font face="Verdana">Hi Anja<br>
<br>
There were two levels of issues that I had raised. First (which I
call as category 1) is simple, direct, objective and fully-self
contained, public interest information about what is supposed to
be a public interest activity. I have covered this aspect in the
email I sent just now.<br>
<br>
The second (category 2) is connected, but a slightly lower level
issue because it involves judgements, and judgements about
judgements, about who was invited, who was funded, who was
informed in time enough to consider participating, and so on....(
In fact, this part is also greatly helped by a full declaration of
the decision process, the group involved in making the judgements,
and so on, which basic info is part of category 1 above.)<br>
<br>
I do not want to mix issues of category 1 and 2, so that the
clarity of category 1 issues, and the basic and objective
imperatives involved, may not get diluted. So please provide me</font><font
face="Verdana"> separately</font><font face="Verdana"> the fully
objective information </font><font face="Verdana">under category
1 </font><font face="Verdana">sought in my earlier email .<br>
<br>
Meanwhile, this email will deal with some admittedly judgemental
issues that are involved, which while being not fully objective
are still a worthy subject of public debate. Please see inline....<br>
<br>
</font><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Tuesday 01 September 2015 11:52 PM,
Anja Kovacs wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHB0ZCGEmkrxYVeq1eFs2-dmf6yp20Cn7zSjGipfj31D1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Hi Parminder,<br>
<br>
</div>
I have not discussed this with my co-organisers, but as the
person who first came up with this idea and also the one to
send the message to which you responded, I am happy to provide
some answers. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Perhaps first a note on what we are trying to do here. As
we all know, the modalities explicitly made the Review a
government-led process. Also, details on the way in which the
informal consultations with other stakeholders would be
facilitated remained extremely scanty even eight months before
the review was supposed to take place. Even when the Review
process was formally announced, it wasn't clear to what extent
inputs from stakeholders other than governments would be taken
into account. This meeting is an attempt to be proactive in
that situation, trying to amplify voices from our region to
make sure that concerns from this region actually find
resonance in New York - something that, seeing how far removed
we are from there, isn't guaranteed at all. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Sure... I note the term <i>'amplify voices</i>' and the neutrality
of the platform which is thus suggested.... Hope you note it too,
and your responses are informed with this fact . (The <a
href="http://www.wsis10.asia/index.php">conference website</a>
carries this blurb "Amplifying Asian Voices in the WSIS + 10
Process" - which raises the important public interest question about
who determines and filters what are 'Asian Voices')<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHB0ZCGEmkrxYVeq1eFs2-dmf6yp20Cn7zSjGipfj31D1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The organisations that are co-organising this meeting are
organisations that all got enthused by this prospect, and were
willing to put part of their organisational budgets, of their
staff's time and minds, or of all of these up to make this
event happen.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Who funded what - especially in terms of actual money.... Lets not
generalise clear and objective issues and questions. What you refuse
to answer, you should just say so. <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHB0ZCGEmkrxYVeq1eFs2-dmf6yp20Cn7zSjGipfj31D1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> No funding was secured specifically for this meeting
(though I tried). What this meant is that the funding pool was
limited, and difficult decisions indeed did have to be made.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Who made the decisions, what was the process... This being after all
an "Asia Regional Consultation" whereby the outputs of it will also
carry that label. <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHB0ZCGEmkrxYVeq1eFs2-dmf6yp20Cn7zSjGipfj31D1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> What we aimed for was to have a balanced representation
across Asia's sub-regions as well as a group that could
address a mix of issues from a range of perspectives. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
'Balanced representation'.... and 'mix of issues from a range of
perspectives' :) . You must be joking.... One cant just write
anything, just because it sounds good and is of a general nature....
Can you show how is it balanced and admits a range of perspective,
about which more below...<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHB0ZCGEmkrxYVeq1eFs2-dmf6yp20Cn7zSjGipfj31D1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>A direct engagement with the WSIS+10 Review process over
the past two years was definitely seen as a plus, but not a
must. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Sure. Then maybe engagement with WSIS for 12 years would be a big
plus plus plus ... but it did not seem to count here among a 'range
of perspectives' and 'balanced views'..... You need to justify with
facts all the good and general things you are writing here if we are
to have a meaningful dialogue and not just confuse people.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHB0ZCGEmkrxYVeq1eFs2-dmf6yp20Cn7zSjGipfj31D1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
As is bound to happen in such circumstances, there are indeed
people who would be able to offer valuable inputs to the
meeting but who we were not able to offer funding.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Just wanted to understand the 'process'.. Who was actually making
the decisions. <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHB0ZCGEmkrxYVeq1eFs2-dmf6yp20Cn7zSjGipfj31D1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> Luckily, some of those are able to self-fund their
attendance.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
But then they at least need to know about the event, which I first
heard about exactly 10 days before the meeting from your email below
-- this even when we were in conversation over another issue, in
fact a meeting my organisation is organising in Delhi on the 5th of
Sept to which we invited you, but you said you cannot come, even at
that stage not revealing why you could not - which I now gather was
bec you had this Asia Consultation meeting on the 5th. Anja, the
meeting plans and dates were clearly kept under wraps till the very
last minute - so I do not understand this 'self funding' business
either.... Other than it being another link in the long chain of
general, good sounding, statements, which are not very well founded
on facts, and thus do not contribute to a serious and useful
discussion. Maybe some people could have self funded (although I
could not have) if they knew about this meeting... But the problem
is that a so called 'Asia Regional Consultation' of a UN process is
being held even without sufficient notice to people (all of 10
days)...<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHB0ZCGEmkrxYVeq1eFs2-dmf6yp20Cn7zSjGipfj31D1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> In addition, we tried to alleviate the restrictions
imposed by the limited funding by deciding to provide remote
participation, so as to allow all those interested in
participating to do so. The full modalities of how this will
work is something that we are still working out: as this is
intended to be a working meeting, ensuring that remote
participation is substantive is not a given. We are doing our
very best to try and pull off successfully what I think is a
first in our region for a meeting of this kind. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I am not sure what you mean by first of this kind.... The original
WSIS process had publicly funded regional review meetings, in both
its phases... <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHB0ZCGEmkrxYVeq1eFs2-dmf6yp20Cn7zSjGipfj31D1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your claim that nobody from the Just Net Coalition has been
invited is of course not correct. One organisation was on our
shortlist from day one. Another is attending on its own force,
and we are very happy that they, as well as others, have been
able to draw on their own resources to attend this event and
contribute to its success. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
But perhaps you could have put the info on the Just Net Coalition
elist, so that all would know, also also engaged with other JNC
members especially those who were most active in WSIS + 10
engagement including developing JNC's statement towards it. That
reminds me - the resource page of your proposed 'Consultation',
which carry a number of contributions to the WSIS + 10 process of
NGOs and even of non-NGOs, chose to specifically censor the
contribution of Just Net Coalition. This says a lot to your
commitment to 'balanced views' and 'range of perspectives'. <br>
<br>
(Well, very interestingly, I now see that JNC's contribution has
been added now after I wrote the email yesterday, but <i>it wasnt
there till yesterday</i>, and I did take the enclosed print out
which shows that it wasnt . Anja, another specific question, is it
not true that the JNC contribution was not there on your list of
contributions page till yesterday? )<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHB0ZCGEmkrxYVeq1eFs2-dmf6yp20Cn7zSjGipfj31D1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On APRCEM, thanks for the heads-up. I am glad to hear that
they are now intending to work on issues related to science
and technology as well,</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
They have worked in this area for quite some time..<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHB0ZCGEmkrxYVeq1eFs2-dmf6yp20Cn7zSjGipfj31D1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> and that they are even engaging with the Internet Social
Forum initiative on this. Though I am on an email list that is
dedicated to discussing the Internet Social Forum, I don't
seem to be able to locate that information there. Do please
feel free to pass on the message about this event to them
though. If any representative of APRCEM would be interested in
attending, either in person or remotely, they are very welcome
to do so, as are you.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Dont you think this is very late for meeting in 3 days! But again,
the real issues here are structural ones around civil society
processes and transparency/ accountability, and not about
individuals... <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHB0ZCGEmkrxYVeq1eFs2-dmf6yp20Cn7zSjGipfj31D1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hope this clarifies.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
My apologies, but it doesnt. <br>
<br>
Best, parminder <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHB0ZCGEmkrxYVeq1eFs2-dmf6yp20Cn7zSjGipfj31D1A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,<br>
</div>
<div>Anja<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 31 August 2015 at 18:47, parminder
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Dear organisers of
the <b>Asian Regional Consultation on the WIS+10
Review,<br>
<br>
</b>With your permission I have some questions to ask
you. I know this is a treacherous territory, given an
extra ordinary (and completely inappropriate)
sensitivity to being asked questions by some groups, but
my apologies, I cannot but ask them in pursuance of my
public interest work, however distasteful it may be even
for me to get into this thing....<br>
<br>
This is being called a 'consultation' and further an
'Asian Regional' consultation, on what is a global
governance process, and so some questions arise in my
mind:<br>
<br>
(1) who is funding this 'consultation'<br>
<br>
(2) on what criteria participants were determined, and
invitations sent, and by whom - were all concerned
people invited (that, in my view, would be a
consultation)<br>
<br>
(3) On what criteria funding for participation was
provided, and by whom, and who decided it..<br>
<br>
Thanks for answering these public interest questions...<br>
<br>
I may declare that my interest got evoked from the
knowledge that no member of the Just Net Coalition has
been invited... IT for Change is among very few groups
in Asia Pacific which has been engaged with the WSIS
process from the start, and very thoroughly engaged.
Further, there is in fact an <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.asiapacificrcem.org/" target="_blank">Asia
Pacific Regional CSO Engagement Mechanism</a>, which
describes itself as<br>
<br>
<blockquote>"APRCEM is a civil society platform aimed to
enable stronger cross constituency coordination and
ensure that voices of all sub-regions of Asia Pacific
are heard in intergovernmental processes in regional
and global level. The platform is initiated, owned and
driven by the CSOs, and has been set up under the
auspices of UN-ESCAP and seeks to engage with UN
agencies and Member States on the Post-2015 as well as
other development related issues/processes. "<br>
</blockquote>
In fact the APRCEM also has an Science and Technology
Constituency which works as an active network (of which
IT for Change is a member) which has begun to work
closely with the Just Net Coalition (many JNC members
also being its members) and the Internet Social Forum
initiatives, which shows its interest in Internet
issues... As far as I know no member of this network, or
the network as a whole, has been involved in this
so-called "Asia Regional Consultation' which being on a
UN process this group would be natural constituency...
All of which makes me wonder, and so my questions..<br>
<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<div>
<div class="h5"> <br>
<br>
<div>On Wednesday 26 August 2015 08:21 PM, Anja
Kovacs wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear all,<br>
<br>
</div>
The Internet Democracy Project, Bytes for All,
APNIC, the Association for Progressive
Communications, ISOC, Global Partners Digital
and ICT Watch are together organising an <b>Asian
Regional Consultation on the WIS+10 Review</b>
from 3 to 5 September in Pattaya, Thailand. <br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The Asian Regional
Consultation on the WSIS+10 Review will bring
together experts from different backgrounds
and from around the Asian region who are
concerned about issues concerning ICTs,
sustainable development, human rights and
Internet governance, to ask: <b>what are the
issues that our governments need to squarely
address in the process of the review? <br>
</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The meeting is timed so as
to be able for the group to comment on the
non-paper that will have been released by the
co-facilitators of the review process in late
August (inputs into that paper can be made by
all stakeholders and are due on 31 July).<span>
The group will take stock of the extent to
which priorities for the Asian region have
been reflected in the non-paper, and will
work together on formulating a joint comment
on the non-paper</span> (comments on the
non-paper will be due in mid-September, and
will be drawn on by the co-facilitators to
formulate a zero-draft). <span>The group will
also look forward to consider which further
inputs could be made or actions could be
taken strategically to ensure that
priorities from the Asian region are fully
taken onto board in the final WSIS+10 Review
outcome documents. </span>If there are
other processes the group believes this work
could usefully feed into, these might be taken
into consideration as well. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>The meeting is conceived
as a highly interactive working meeting that
is geared towards producing a joint
submission to the next input round on the
Review outcome document. </b>Participants
will be drawn from all non-government
stakeholder groups, and will have a wide and
rich variety of backgrounds, both in terms of
professional expertise and geographical
location. What unites all, however, is a
shared commitment to a free and open Internet
and to the use of technology to benefit the
development and human rights of all in our
region. <br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>We're very happy to let
you know that remote participation will be
available. </b>For more information on
remote participation and the event in general,
please see the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.wsis10.asia/"
target="_blank">event website</a>. Or follow
us on Twitter @WSISAsia #wsis10.<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We look forward to your
inputs into this event. Do please let me know
if you have any comments or questions.<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Warm regards,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anja<br>
</p>
<br>
<div>
<div><br>
-- <br>
<div>Dr. Anja Kovacs<br>
The Internet Democracy Project<br>
<br>
+91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.internetdemocracy.in/"
target="_blank">www.internetdemocracy.in</a><br>
</div>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">Dr. Anja Kovacs<br>
The Internet Democracy Project<br>
<br>
+91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.internetdemocracy.in/" target="_blank">www.internetdemocracy.in</a><br>
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