<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 01 April 2015 04:14 PM,
Ang Peng Hwa (Prof) wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div>
<div>Hi Parminder.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I went to the IGF page and searched for your proposal. I’m
surprised that the entire group of organisers consists of
civil society players only.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hi Peng Hwa<br>
<br>
Perhaps you missed noting that we have entered the proposal not as a
regular IGF workshop but under 'others' - calling it as an 'outreach
event'. And out reach event for any initiative is obviously done by
those associated with organising that event, here, the Internet
Social Forum, which are all civil society organisations. The
Internet Social Forum is to be a thematic forum under the World
Social Forum rubric. The World Social Forum in fact only allows
civil society groups to participate and not businesses or
government. Please see this link for WSF's criteria of paticipation
. Now if you want to take up issues with the WSF and its criteria of
participation, that is a different thing - there are much better
worthies to defend it than I. <br>
<br>
BTW, among the organisers are both civil society and technical
community groups, and it has been made clear in the past that it is
not necessary to have stakeholders as co- organisers of an IGF
workshop.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The online proposal form has a button that allows one to
ask for help if one has difficulty getting stakeholder
participation. Your proposal does not have that request. I
presume it means that you are not seeking inputs from
government or the private sector.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
You can conflating organisers and participants. If you look at the
tentative panel, you will find a wide variety of stakeholders. <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Back in 2010, when we organised the first APrIGF, you and I
had a couple of side chats during the meeting in HK and you
gave some critical inputs that, in the long run, strengthened
the meeting. One of the criticisms was that we had no
government representation on the MSG</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
As far as I remember, both at the HK meeting, and later in exchanges
on this list, my main point was to involve the UN regional
commission of Asia Pacific. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<div> (multistakeholder steering group; acronym cunningly chosen
because it resembles flavouring originating in Asia). There
was a bit of finger wagging by you even then and I explained
to you that we had tried but no government was stepping up.
Since then, we have seen increasing government involvement
with the APrIGF. Fast forward to 2014 and the Indian
government played a major part in the APrIGF in Delhi. I don’t
know if you played a part in that but your critique in 2010
was helpful in prodding us to get government on board. In the
coming Macao meeting, they are involved in sponsorships as
well.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So now, seeing a proposal from you where only civil society
is speaker and audience is puzzling. I</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
you are wrong on your facts . <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<div> have battle scars from being ejected at meetings by
government officials between the two WSISs. They are so rare
these days I wear them as a badge of honour.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So these are my questions that come top of my head.</div>
<ol>
<li>If civil society can organise a session where no
government or business organisation is invited, would it be
acceptable if governments and business organise their own
meetings among themselves?</li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Where did you read that no gov or business is invited? Further, we
have a variety of stakeholders on the panel as well. Yes, no
business at present. I would love to get a small developing country
business but can never find one. If you know anyone please do refer
to me.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<ol>
<li>If even the World Economic Forum is recognising the
importance of a multistakeholder model <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.weforum.org/reports/future-role-civil-society">http://www.weforum.org/reports/future-role-civil-society</a>,
would not a civil-society-only meeting be a step backward?<br>
</li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
I have pretty good idea about what WEF recognises and what it does
not, and to what purpose. (BTW, do read their Global Redesign
Initiative, and their vision of the future of governance. But if you
cant read it all, see <a
href="http://www.twn.my/title2/resurgence/2014/287-288/cover02.htm">a
short critique in this article</a> , go to the box in the article
on 'From NetMundial to the WEF'.) The workshop on the Internet
Social Forum at the IGF is of course not only civil society. As for
your objection to the proposed Internet Social Forum itself being
only civil society, you will need to engage with the World Social
Forum, at whose 2015 meeting last week about 40,000 people
congregated from the world over. The next WSF is probably in Canada,
and there will curely be an Internet Social Forum event there. You
are welcome to come.<br>
<br>
Below are the current top news about the 2015 WSF meeting. (You may
also know that the WSF - <a
href="http://www.forumsocialmundial.org.br/main.php?id_menu=4&cd_language=2">read
charter here </a>- was called in direct opposition to the WEF, so
obviously a lots of people were never too happy with WEF's
multistakeholderism and inclusiveness !) <br>
<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/mar/23/world-social-forum-tunis-activists-united-against-global-power-grab">http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/mar/23/world-social-forum-tunis-activists-united-against-global-power-grab</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.equaltimes.org/2015-a-key-year-for-world-social#.VRvcts3SUyo">http://www.equaltimes.org/2015-a-key-year-for-world-social#.VRvcts3SUyo</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://cadtm.org/Declaration-of-the-Assembly-of,11452">http://cadtm.org/Declaration-of-the-Assembly-of,11452</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.democracynow.org/2015/3/27/african_economist_samir_amin_on_the">http://www.democracynow.org/2015/3/27/african_economist_samir_amin_on_the</a><br>
<br>
Finally, since I have answered your questions, I will like to ask
you if you think that the workshop we are proposing on an Internet
Social Forum should be accepted (1) at the IGF, and (2) at APrIGF.
And also what really does it mean to make it necessary for workshop
proposals to present all issues 'incorporating a multi-stakeholder
perspective'. Isnt the test of 'incorporating public interest
perspective' better . <br>
<br>
Regards<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div>Regards, </div>
<div>Peng Hwa</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt;
text-align:left; color:black; border-bottom:medium none;
border-left:medium none; padding-bottom:0in; padding-left:0in;
padding-right:0in; border-top:#b5c4df 1pt solid;
border-right:medium none; padding-top:3pt">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Parminder Singh
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@ITforChange.net">parminder@ITforChange.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>>,
Parminder Singh <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@ITforChange.net">parminder@ITforChange.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, 1
April 2015 5:49 pm<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Anja Kovacs <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:anja@internetdemocracy.in">anja@internetdemocracy.in</a>>,
"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>>,
IGC <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re:
[governance] [bestbits] Fwd: [Rigf_discuss] [Extended
Deadline: Apr 7(Tue)] APrIGF Macao 2015 - Last Chance to
Submit Your Workshop Proposals<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Tuesday 31 March 2015 01:29
PM, Anja Kovacs wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Dear all,<br>
<br>
</div>
I just wanted to share with you all that the
submission deadline for the APrIGF workshops has
been slightly extended, until 7 April. For those of
you who are in the region, do please consider
submitting a proposal!<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hi Anja<br>
<br>
I am curious what would the mean and entail by "<span
style="font-size:14px; line-height:19px">proposals ...
should present the proposed issue ... incorporating a
multi-stakeholder perspective".<br>
<br>
For instance, it one were to present a workshop proposal
titled 'Countering the power of Internet Trans-national
corporations', one would normally be writing mostly about
excesses of TNC's power in this area and what to do about
it, isnt it. Would that fail the test of 'incorporating a
MS perspective'.<br>
<br>
Or, to take a more concrete example, those who organised
the workshop on Internet Social Forum intend to also
organise one the next IGF, the initial proposal is
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshop-proposals/list-of-published-workshop-proposals">here</a>
... I have a feeling that this proposal may not be
considered to be 'incorporating a multi stakeholder
perspective' but I dont know, you or someone else from
APrIGF can tell me..<br>
<br>
Best , parminder <br>
</span>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
With best regards,<br>
</div>
Anja<br>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded
message ----------<br>
From: <b class="gmail_sendername">APrIGF
Secretariat</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sec@aprigf.asia">sec@aprigf.asia</a>></span><br>
Date: 30 March 2015 at 12:54<br>
Subject: [Rigf_discuss] [Extended Deadline:
Apr 7(Tue)] APrIGF Macao 2015 - Last Chance to
Submit Your Workshop Proposals<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:announce@aprigf.asia">announce@aprigf.asia</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br>
<div>
<div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><b><font
size="4">Asia
Pacific Regional
Internet Governance
Forum</font></b></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><b><font
size="4">APrIGF
Macao 2015</font></b></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><b
style="font-size:14px"><font
color="#444444">30
Jun (Pre-event), 1-3
Jul (Main
Conference), 2015</font></b></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><b
style="font-size:14px"><font
color="#444444">Sands
Cotai Central, Macao</font></b></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><font
style="font-size:14px"
color="#444444"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://aprigf.asia/" target="_blank" style="font-size:14px">http://2015.rigf.asia</a></font></div>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT;
text-align:center"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><b><font
color="#232323"
size="4">Final
Call for
Pre-Events/Workshop
Proposals</font></b></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><span
style=""><br>
</span></div>
<div><span><span
style="font-size:14px;
line-height:19px">With
our promotion at
the RightsCon
Southeast Asia
which just
concluded in
Manila last week,
the MSG is very
glad to receive
the overwhelming
interests from the
attendees on
submitting
workshop proposals
and their request
for a further
deadline
extension.
To enhance the
diversity of the
proposals and
engage more
stakeholders'
participation, the
MSG reached a
consensus to
further extend the
submission
deadline to allow
sufficient time
for community
members to fully
develop their
workshop
proposals.</span></span></div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:14px;
line-height:19px">We
now welcome
proposals for
pre-events or main
workshop sessions
which should
present the
proposed issue in
an inclusive
manner,
incorporating a
multi-stakeholder
perspective with a
balance of
stakeholders and
gender in the
speakers list. The
session shall
promote an
interactive
dialogue among the
participants.</span></p>
<p
style="line-height:19px"><span
style="font-size:14px">There will not be further deadline extension.
Hence, it is
highly encouraged
to submit your
complete workshop
proposal within
the extended
period.</span></p>
<p
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);
line-height:19px"><span
style="font-size:14px"><b>Workshop Proposal Submission Deadline: </b><del>11
Mar 2015 (Wed)</del> <b><span
style="color:red">[Extended to 7 Apr (Tue)]</span></b></span></p>
<p
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);
line-height:19px"><span
style="font-size:14px"><b>Online Submission Form:</b> (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://2015.rigf.asia/workshop-theme-submissions/" target="_blank">http://2015.rigf.asia/workshop-theme-submissions/</a>)</span></p>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><span
style="font-size:14px">If you have any enquiries, please feel free to
contact the
secretariat at <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sec@aprigf.asia" target="_blank">sec@aprigf.asia</a>.</span></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><span
style="font-size:14px"><br>
</span></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><b
style="font-size:14px">
<div
style="color:rgb(51,50,51);
margin:0px;
font-weight:normal">If
you are interested
to follow any news
and updates about
APrIGF and discuss
relevant issues,
you may subscribe
to the mailing
list <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss@aprigf.asia" target="_blank">discuss@aprigf.asia</a> by
sending in
subscription
request.</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(51,50,51);
margin:0px;
font-weight:normal;
min-height:14px">
<br>
</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(51,50,51);
margin:0px;
font-weight:normal">We
also welcome any
Internet-related
organisation to
become a sponsor.
Please contact <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sec@aprigf.asia" target="_blank">sec@aprigf.asia</a> for
more information.</div>
</b></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT;
text-align:center"><span
style="font-size:14px"><br>
</span></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;
border-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;
font-family:Helvetica;
border-spacing:0px">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;
border-spacing:0px">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><span
style="color:rgb(95,94,95);
font-size:14px">Best Regards,</span></div>
<div><span
style="color:rgb(95,94,95);
font-size:14px">Secretariat of APrIGF</span></div>
<div><span
style="color:rgb(95,94,95);
font-family:Helvetica-Light;
font-size:14px"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.dot.asia/"
target="_blank">http://www.aprigf.asia</a></span></div>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Rigf_discuss mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rigf_discuss@web2.dotasia.org">Rigf_discuss@web2.dotasia.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_discuss"
target="_blank">https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_discuss</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">Dr. Anja Kovacs<br>
The Internet Democracy Project<br>
<br>
+91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.internetdemocracy.in/"
target="_blank">www.internetdemocracy.in</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>.
To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits">http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<hr>
<font color="Gray" face="Arial" size="2">CONFIDENTIALITY: This
email is intended solely for the person(s) named and may be
confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient, please delete it, notify us and do not copy, use, or
disclose its contents.<br>
Towards a sustainable earth: Print only when necessary. Thank
you.</font>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>