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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 01 April 2015 05:39 PM,
parminder wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:551BDFE9.8000703@itforchange.net" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 01 April 2015 04:14 PM,
Ang Peng Hwa (Prof) wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<div>
<div>Hi Parminder.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I went to the IGF page and searched for your proposal.
I’m surprised that the entire group of organisers consists
of civil society players only.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hi Peng Hwa<br>
<br>
Perhaps you missed noting that we have entered the proposal not as
a regular IGF workshop but under 'others' - calling it as an
'outreach event'. And out reach event for any initiative is
obviously done by those associated with organising that event,
here, the Internet Social Forum, which are all civil society
organisations. The Internet Social Forum is to be a thematic
forum under the World Social Forum rubric. The World Social Forum
in fact only allows civil society groups to participate and not
businesses or government. Please see this link for WSF's criteria
of paticipation .</blockquote>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://fsm2015.org/en/criteria-participation">https://fsm2015.org/en/criteria-participation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:551BDFE9.8000703@itforchange.net" type="cite">
Now if you want to take up issues with the WSF and its criteria of
participation, that is a different thing - there are much better
worthies to defend it than I. <br>
<br>
BTW, among the organisers are both civil society and technical
community groups, and it has been made clear in the past that it
is not necessary to have stakeholders as co- organisers of an IGF
workshop.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The online proposal form has a button that allows one to
ask for help if one has difficulty getting stakeholder
participation. Your proposal does not have that request. I
presume it means that you are not seeking inputs from
government or the private sector.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
You can conflating organisers and participants. If you look at the
tentative panel, you will find a wide variety of stakeholders. <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Back in 2010, when we organised the first APrIGF, you and
I had a couple of side chats during the meeting in HK and
you gave some critical inputs that, in the long run,
strengthened the meeting. One of the criticisms was that we
had no government representation on the MSG</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
As far as I remember, both at the HK meeting, and later in
exchanges on this list, my main point was to involve the UN
regional commission of Asia Pacific. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<div> (multistakeholder steering group; acronym cunningly
chosen because it resembles flavouring originating in Asia).
There was a bit of finger wagging by you even then and I
explained to you that we had tried but no government was
stepping up. Since then, we have seen increasing government
involvement with the APrIGF. Fast forward to 2014 and the
Indian government played a major part in the APrIGF in
Delhi. I don’t know if you played a part in that but your
critique in 2010 was helpful in prodding us to get
government on board. In the coming Macao meeting, they are
involved in sponsorships as well.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So now, seeing a proposal from you where only civil
society is speaker and audience is puzzling. I</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
you are wrong on your facts . <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<div> have battle scars from being ejected at meetings by
government officials between the two WSISs. They are so rare
these days I wear them as a badge of honour.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So these are my questions that come top of my head.</div>
<ol>
<li>If civil society can organise a session where no
government or business organisation is invited, would it
be acceptable if governments and business organise their
own meetings among themselves?</li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Where did you read that no gov or business is invited? Further, we
have a variety of stakeholders on the panel as well. Yes, no
business at present. I would love to get a small developing
country business but can never find one. If you know anyone please
do refer to me.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<ol>
<li>If even the World Economic Forum is recognising the
importance of a multistakeholder model <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.weforum.org/reports/future-role-civil-society">http://www.weforum.org/reports/future-role-civil-society</a>,
would not a civil-society-only meeting be a step backward?<br>
</li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
I have pretty good idea about what WEF recognises and what it does
not, and to what purpose. (BTW, do read their Global Redesign
Initiative, and their vision of the future of governance. But if
you cant read it all, see <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.twn.my/title2/resurgence/2014/287-288/cover02.htm">a
short critique in this article</a> , go to the box in the
article on 'From NetMundial to the WEF'.) The workshop on the
Internet Social Forum at the IGF is of course not only civil
society. As for your objection to the proposed Internet Social
Forum itself being only civil society, you will need to engage
with the World Social Forum, at whose 2015 meeting last week about
40,000 people congregated from the world over. The next WSF is
probably in Canada, and there will curely be an Internet Social
Forum event there. You are welcome to come.<br>
<br>
Below are the current top news about the 2015 WSF meeting. (You
may also know that the WSF - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.forumsocialmundial.org.br/main.php?id_menu=4&cd_language=2">read
charter here </a>- was called in direct opposition to the WEF,
so obviously a lots of people were never too happy with WEF's
multistakeholderism and inclusiveness !) <br>
<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/mar/23/world-social-forum-tunis-activists-united-against-global-power-grab">http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/mar/23/world-social-forum-tunis-activists-united-against-global-power-grab</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.equaltimes.org/2015-a-key-year-for-world-social#.VRvcts3SUyo">http://www.equaltimes.org/2015-a-key-year-for-world-social#.VRvcts3SUyo</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://cadtm.org/Declaration-of-the-Assembly-of,11452">http://cadtm.org/Declaration-of-the-Assembly-of,11452</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.democracynow.org/2015/3/27/african_economist_samir_amin_on_the">http://www.democracynow.org/2015/3/27/african_economist_samir_amin_on_the</a><br>
<br>
Finally, since I have answered your questions, I will like to ask
you if you think that the workshop we are proposing on an Internet
Social Forum should be accepted (1) at the IGF, and (2) at APrIGF.
And also what really does it mean to make it necessary for
workshop proposals to present all issues 'incorporating a
multi-stakeholder perspective'. Isnt the test of 'incorporating
public interest perspective' better . <br>
<br>
Regards<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D141E8B1.3C6E9%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div>Regards, </div>
<div>Peng Hwa</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt;
text-align:left; color:black; border-bottom:medium none;
border-left:medium none; padding-bottom:0in;
padding-left:0in; padding-right:0in; border-top:#b5c4df 1pt
solid; border-right:medium none; padding-top:3pt"> <span
style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Parminder Singh
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@ITforChange.net">parminder@ITforChange.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>>,
Parminder Singh <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@ITforChange.net">parminder@ITforChange.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, 1
April 2015 5:49 pm<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Anja Kovacs <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:anja@internetdemocracy.in">anja@internetdemocracy.in</a>>,
"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>>,
IGC <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re:
[governance] [bestbits] Fwd: [Rigf_discuss] [Extended
Deadline: Apr 7(Tue)] APrIGF Macao 2015 - Last Chance to
Submit Your Workshop Proposals<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Tuesday 31 March 2015
01:29 PM, Anja Kovacs wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Dear all,<br>
<br>
</div>
I just wanted to share with you all that the
submission deadline for the APrIGF workshops has
been slightly extended, until 7 April. For those
of you who are in the region, do please consider
submitting a proposal!<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hi Anja<br>
<br>
I am curious what would the mean and entail by "<span
style="font-size:14px; line-height:19px">proposals ...
should present the proposed issue ... incorporating a
multi-stakeholder perspective".<br>
<br>
For instance, it one were to present a workshop proposal
titled 'Countering the power of Internet Trans-national
corporations', one would normally be writing mostly
about excesses of TNC's power in this area and what to
do about it, isnt it. Would that fail the test of
'incorporating a MS perspective'.<br>
<br>
Or, to take a more concrete example, those who organised
the workshop on Internet Social Forum intend to also
organise one the next IGF, the initial proposal is <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshop-proposals/list-of-published-workshop-proposals">here</a>
... I have a feeling that this proposal may not be
considered to be 'incorporating a multi stakeholder
perspective' but I dont know, you or someone else from
APrIGF can tell me..<br>
<br>
Best , parminder <br>
</span>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
With best regards,<br>
</div>
Anja<br>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded
message ----------<br>
From: <b class="gmail_sendername">APrIGF
Secretariat</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sec@aprigf.asia">sec@aprigf.asia</a>></span><br>
Date: 30 March 2015 at 12:54<br>
Subject: [Rigf_discuss] [Extended Deadline:
Apr 7(Tue)] APrIGF Macao 2015 - Last Chance
to Submit Your Workshop Proposals<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:announce@aprigf.asia">announce@aprigf.asia</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br>
<div>
<div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><b><font
size="4">Asia
Pacific Regional
Internet
Governance Forum</font></b></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><b><font
size="4">APrIGF
Macao 2015</font></b></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><b
style="font-size:14px"><font color="#444444">30 Jun (Pre-event), 1-3 Jul
(Main Conference),
2015</font></b></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><b
style="font-size:14px"><font color="#444444">Sands Cotai Central, Macao</font></b></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><font
style="font-size:14px" color="#444444"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://aprigf.asia/"
target="_blank"
style="font-size:14px">http://2015.rigf.asia</a></font></div>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT;
text-align:center"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><b><font
color="#232323"
size="4">Final
Call for
Pre-Events/Workshop
Proposals</font></b></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><span
style=""><br>
</span></div>
<div><span><span
style="font-size:14px;
line-height:19px">With our promotion at the RightsCon Southeast Asia
which just
concluded in
Manila last
week, the MSG is
very glad to
receive the
overwhelming
interests from
the attendees on
submitting
workshop
proposals and
their request
for a further
deadline
extension.
To enhance the
diversity of the
proposals and
engage more
stakeholders'
participation,
the MSG reached
a consensus to
further extend
the submission
deadline to
allow sufficient
time for
community
members to fully
develop their
workshop
proposals.</span></span></div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:14px;
line-height:19px">We now welcome proposals for pre-events or main
workshop
sessions which
should present
the proposed
issue in an
inclusive
manner,
incorporating a
multi-stakeholder
perspective with
a balance of
stakeholders and
gender in the
speakers list.
The session
shall promote an
interactive
dialogue among
the
participants.</span></p>
<p
style="line-height:19px"><span
style="font-size:14px">There will not be further deadline extension.
Hence, it is
highly
encouraged to
submit your
complete
workshop
proposal within
the extended
period.</span></p>
<p
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);
line-height:19px"><span
style="font-size:14px"><b>Workshop Proposal Submission Deadline: </b><del>11
Mar 2015 (Wed)</del> <b><span
style="color:red">[Extended to 7 Apr (Tue)]</span></b></span></p>
<p
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);
line-height:19px"><span
style="font-size:14px"><b>Online Submission Form:</b> (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://2015.rigf.asia/workshop-theme-submissions/" target="_blank">http://2015.rigf.asia/workshop-theme-submissions/</a>)</span></p>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><span
style="font-size:14px">If you have any enquiries, please feel free to
contact the
secretariat at <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sec@aprigf.asia" target="_blank">sec@aprigf.asia</a>.</span></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><span
style="font-size:14px"><br>
</span></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><b
style="font-size:14px">
<div
style="color:rgb(51,50,51);
margin:0px;
font-weight:normal">If
you are
interested to
follow any news
and updates
about APrIGF and
discuss relevant
issues, you may
subscribe to the
mailing list <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:discuss@aprigf.asia" target="_blank">discuss@aprigf.asia</a> by
sending in
subscription
request.</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(51,50,51);
margin:0px;
font-weight:normal;
min-height:14px">
<br>
</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(51,50,51);
margin:0px;
font-weight:normal">We
also welcome any
Internet-related
organisation to
become a
sponsor. Please
contact <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sec@aprigf.asia" target="_blank">sec@aprigf.asia</a> for
more
information.</div>
</b></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT;
text-align:center"><span
style="font-size:14px"><br>
</span></div>
<div
style="font-family:ArialMT"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;
border-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;
font-family:Helvetica;
border-spacing:0px">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;
border-spacing:0px">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><span
style="color:rgb(95,94,95);
font-size:14px">Best Regards,</span></div>
<div><span
style="color:rgb(95,94,95);
font-size:14px">Secretariat of APrIGF</span></div>
<div><span
style="color:rgb(95,94,95);
font-family:Helvetica-Light;
font-size:14px"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.dot.asia/"
target="_blank">http://www.aprigf.asia</a></span></div>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
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<br>
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<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Rigf_discuss mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Rigf_discuss@web2.dotasia.org">Rigf_discuss@web2.dotasia.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_discuss"
target="_blank">https://mailman.dotasia.org/mailman/listinfo/rigf_discuss</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">Dr. Anja Kovacs<br>
The Internet Democracy Project<br>
<br>
+91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.internetdemocracy.in/"
target="_blank">www.internetdemocracy.in</a><br>
</div>
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