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<head>
</head>
<body>
<div style="color: black;">
<div style="color: black;">
<p style="margin: 0 0 1em 0; color: black;">As opposed to multilateralism? </p>
<p style="margin: 0 0 1em 0; color: black;">Governments, inter governmental
organizations, some quangos / gongos and some 'few innocents' - for which
last Lenin had a much more pithy definition. <br>
</p>
</div>
<div style="color: black;">
<p
style="color: black; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; margin: 10pt 0;">On
March 6, 2015 9:35:56 AM Guru <Guru@ITforChange.net> wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0 0 0 0.75ex; border-left: 1px solid #808080; padding-left: 0.75ex;">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">a thought provoking definition of MSism
- system of, by, and for the lobbyists (and if I may add + fronts
for the lobbyists + few innocents)<br>
<pre wrap="">Guru
On Friday 06 March 2015 09:17 AM, Barry Shein wrote:
</pre>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:21753.9041.764057.805257@world.std.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Yes, yes, yes, for all the talk I tend to agree with Michael
Gurstein's summary below, msism appears to be a bit of a "pig in a
poke" as the expression goes (an offer to buy something in a bag which
you can't look into, only guess that something [good] is in there.)
Further, from some of my observation it seems disturbing even on the
surface. For one thing there's no indication of how a conflict of
interest is handled. Worse, a conflict of interest seems to become a
legitimate interest and enfranchised equal.
Fully admitting my understanding may be imperfect even if just because
understanding may be impossible when a concept is ill-defined the more
I hear the more I can't help but think that this is an attempt to
codify a system we have developed without really any rules or
regulation in the United States Congress.
We call it a system of, by, and for the lobbyists.
Anyone may lobby the US Congress of course, it is one of the most open
processes in the world. It does tend to favor oil lobbyists and auto
lobbyists and drug manufacturer lobbyists etc but nonetheless if you
wish you may compete for attention as a homeless lobbyist or single
mother lobbyist (e.g.) and good luck to you! But nothing prevents such
participation and indeed many try. It is democracy red in tooth and
claw!
There is one critical difference, however. Lobbyists must indirect
through congressional representatives who are actually elected by
their constituents, one person one vote.
This system seems to eliminate that annoying middleman (middleperson?)
and just lets the lobbyists introduce and vote on legislation directly
as interest, i.e., stakeholder, groups.
I am skeptical of everything I wrote above because surely this can't
be the case -- everyone here is far too intelligent to want to
reinvent the notoriously interested US lobby system as an actual
governing structure -- so please disabuse me of these silly notions!
From: "Michael Gurstein" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com"><gurstein@gmail.com></a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Those are very good questions Shawna and let me try to
answer in discursive=
rather than declarative mode...
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Shawna Finnegan [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:shawna@apc.org">mailto:shawna@apc.org</a>]=20
Sent: March 5, 2015 2:22 PM
To: Michael Gurstein
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
Subject: Re: [bestbits] Remarks at UNESCO Closing Ceremony of "Connecting t=
he Dots Conference"
=20
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
=20
Michael,
=20
Could you please describe the precise fears that you have of a global gover=
nance paradigm based on multi-stakeholder processes?
=20
[MG] That is a difficult question since honestly I am quite unclear as to w=
hich of the variety of stakeholder models is being proposed at any particul=
ar time or in any particular context, which of course is one of the major s=
ources of hesitation that I have with these kinds of proposals. Before ent=
ering into a decision making process and particularly one that will have re=
al and potentially very significant consequences I want to know what the ru=
les of the game are. Who is involved, where they came, who are they account=
able to and how, what overall structures of accountability will be in place=
, what decision making rules/procedures will be followed, and so on and so =
on. Unfortunately with the way in MSism is conventionally presented it is=
rather buying a "pig in a poke"... one is expected to buy into the meme an=
d then take one's chances with whatever turns up re: what will actually occ=
ur in a specific decision making context. My own experiences in attempting=
to participate in MS processes as evidenced in my blog give some indicatio=
n at a micro-level of what is involved.
=20
Further before entering into these kinds of "games" I want to know how they=
will work under conditions of conflict and stress and not just in conditio=
ns of presumed harmony and good will. My observation is that MS processes =
do not work very well at all when there is conflict which is a major proble=
m given that the basis of the approach is one where participants are involv=
ed specifically because they come from different contexts with presumably d=
ifferent interests which will inevitably result in conflicts of various kin=
ds. My observation is that when a MS process is subject to conflict or str=
ess it immediately reverts to a defensive and control mode where privileged=
insiders close ranks, extrude the conflict (and its individual sources) an=
d proceed as though nothing had occurred =E2=80=93 in this way they are ach=
ieving consensus (which is of course the goal) but a consensus which reflec=
ts nothing more than the capacity of insiders to find a way of reconciling =
(and satisfying) insider's interests and eliminating the need to respond to=
divergent positions and interests.
=20
Finally, I see no evident mechanisms to prevent elite capture--capture by e=
lites within individual stakeholder groups since these groups have in most =
cases no obvious internal structures for ensuring appropriate levels of eff=
ective accountability/representivity, and capture by social/economic elites=
since these have the resources to participate and "manage" these processes=
in a way which no non-economic elite will be able to do in the absence of =
some form of external (state based) structures of enforcing accountability,=
transparency etc. In the sphere of Internet Governance we are talking abo=
ut decisions which ultimately will impact billions and even trillions of do=
llars of value. Do you really think that an under or non-resourced civil s=
ociety (or government such as those found in many LDC=E2=80=99s for that ma=
tter) will be able to resist the kind of resources which can and will be de=
ployed to game those decision making processes in favour of elite and domin=
ant interests.
=20
=20
I think you may have too high expectations for democracy. The US government=
(along with Canada, the UK, and many other colonizing global powers) has b=
een violating human rights and destroying societies long before 'multi-stak=
eholder' started to look like a paradigm.
=20
[MG] Yes, no question but that suggests to me the need to redouble efforts =
to make democratic governance more effective and responsive rather than tos=
sing it out on the faint hope that something (anything) might be better=E2=
=80=A6=20
=20
=20
Multi-stakeholder governance is, in my opinion, an extension of democratic =
pluralism.=20
=20
[MG] A form of pluralism perhaps, but I fail to see where the =E2=80=9Cdemo=
cratic=E2=80=9D comes in=E2=80=A6 perhaps you could explain.
=20
=20
Powerful interests capture multi-stakeholder processes in much the same way=
as democratic processes.
=20
[MG] Yes, very likely but with democratic processes there is at least the p=
ossibility of rectification. With legitimized control by powerful (corpora=
te) interests there is no possibility that I can see at rectification. Tho=
se interests are in fact legally obliged (under current law) to maximize th=
eir individual interests whatever the collective good. I can lobby my gover=
nment, organize protests and voter campaigns to (possibly) achieve desired =
ends =E2=80=93 how exactly do I influence Google or Disney or=E2=80=A6 for =
Google I can=E2=80=99t even find a phone number let alone how I might possi=
bly impact on a decision that they have made or are making. But I agree tha=
t we need new and more effective means for achieving democratic accountabil=
ity and better and more inclusive and responsive structures of democratic d=
ecision making=E2=80=94but tossing out hard won rights and gains that have =
been achieved over a thousand years and much much blood and struggle for an=
undefined =E2=80=9Cpig in a poke=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t seem to me to be=
a very good social trade off to be making.
=20
Going back to a previous comment you made in this thread, I am surprised to=
read that you would advocate for any conventional civil society grouping t=
o shun an organization that did not actively endorse democracy as a fundame=
ntal principle. Justice is a fundamental principle. Democracy is a system o=
f government. In practice, that system has been used as a tool to placate u=
s and legitimize powerful interests.
=20
[MG] See above but also it is necessary to separate the mechanics and struc=
tures of democratic governance from the norms and principles of democracy. =
Individual instances of supposed democratic governance may have failed or b=
een misused or misdirected but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that the aspiratio=
n of the people towards self-governance, empowerment, and social justice is=
not an appropriate aspiration which is to be lightly and cavalierly reject=
ed in favour of governance by self-selected (and ultimately self-serving) e=
lites.
=20
I very much agree that decisions made by civil society organizations now, e=
ven if through non-action, will have significant consequences long-term. An=
d I agree that sometimes civil society need to walk out of negotiations. Pe=
rhaps we should have red lines. That is an important discussion to have.
=20
[MG] yes..
=20
BTW, I am hearing you arguing in favour of Multistakeholder governance as a=
n appropriate mode for Internet (and presumably) other areas of governance.=
Is this the official position of APC?
=20
M
=20
Shawna
=20
On 15-03-05 01:50 PM, Michael Gurstein wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Thanks Shawna/Anriette, and welcome to this
discussion...
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Just a couple of things...
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">An individual or organization with convictions is
judged by its=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">willingness to say "no", to walk away when those
convictions have been=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">trampled upon... In this case the rejection of
"democracy" as a=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">qualifier for Internet Governance is I think a clear
challenge, to=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">one's convictions concerning the significance of
democracy in the=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">context of Internet Governance. APC could (and in
my opinion
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">should) walk away from situations where there is a
clear denial of=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">democracy as a fundamental governance principle.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Similarly, the acceptance or rejection of choices is
a clear=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">indication of preferences... In this case the
acceptance of=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"multistakeholderism" where "democracy" had been
rejected is a clear=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">indication of what appear to be the preferences of
those who signed on=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">to, or otherwise accepted the Outcome Statement.
Thus where there is a=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">clear choice, MSism is evidently the preferred
option for those who=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">signed on to this agreement.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">And please be aware that this is not trivial...
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The USG has made it quite clear in a variety of
contexts that they see=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">MSism as their preferred paradigm for global
governance in the wide=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">variety of areas going forward (notably of course
not in=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">security/surveillance). Thus accepting the
elimination of "democracy"=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">as a necessary element of Internet Governance is a
pre-figuration of=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">what we can expect in the range of other areas
requiring global=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">decision making in the future. Is this APC's
preferred position?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The manner in which MSism operates in practice is a
form of governance=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">by elites. A prioritization of MSism by APC and
others means that the=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">necessary explorations of how democratic governance
can most=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">effectively operate in the Internet age is deferred
if not completely=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">ignored, of course further empowering the elites
and the 1%. Again is=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">this APC's preferred position?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">So decisions made by APC now, even if they are done
through non-action=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">rather than action will contribute to very
significant consequences in=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the longer term and again I repeat my question --
"has APC (and others=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">who are so blithely jumping on the MS
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">bandwagon) debated and then agreed to favour notions
of=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">multistakeholderism over a commitment to democracy
as part of their=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">own normative structures...?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Best,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">M
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">-----Original Message----- From: Shawna Finnegan=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">[ <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:shawna@apc.org"><mailto:shawna@apc.org></a> <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:shawna@apc.org">mailto:shawna@apc.org</a>] Sent: March 5, 2015
11:2=
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">3 AM To: Michael=20
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Gurstein Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"><mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbit=">bestbits@lists.bestbit=</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">s.net;=20
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"><mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
Sub=
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">ject: Re: [bestbits] Remarks at=20
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">UNESCO Closing Ceremony of
"Connecting the Dots Conference"
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Dear Michael,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">While I am not active in these lists, I do try to
follow the=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">discussion, and would like to take the opportunity
to respond to your=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">question about whether APC has debated and agreed to
favour notions of=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">'multistakeholderism' over a commitment to democracy.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In the 3+ years that I have worked with APC, my
experience has been=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">that we debate the strengths and weaknesses of
various=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">multi-stakeholder spaces on an ongoing basis, and
discuss whether it=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">is strategic to engage in those spaces. At the same
time, we support=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">our members to advocate for changes in laws and
policies, and actively=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">engage in intergovernmental bodies, such as the UN
Human Rights=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Council.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Moreover, when there is opportunity to contribute to
ongoing=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">discussion about multistakeholder processes and
'enhanced=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">cooperation', APC has emphasized that
multi-stakeholder participation=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">is a means to achieve inclusive democratic internet
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">governance:
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre
wrap="">"Multi-stakeholder participation is not an end in itself, it is a=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">means to achieve the end of inclusive democratic
internet governance=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">that enables the internet to be a force, to quote
from the Geneva=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Declaration, for =E2=80=9Cthe attainment of a more
peaceful, just and=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">prosperous world.=E2=80=9D
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">(from our submission:=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="http://www.apc.org/en/system/files/APC_response_CSTD_WGEC_10092013.pdf"><http://www.apc.org/en/system/files/APC_response_CSTD_WGEC_10092013.pdf></a>=
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.apc.org/en/system/files/APC_response_CSTD_WGEC_10092013.pdf">http://www.apc.org/en/system/files/APC_response_CSTD_WGEC_10092013.pdf</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> There is no agreement to favour notions of
'multistakeholderism'
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">over a commitment to democracy because the dilemma
is false. APC=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">engages where we see the opportunity to positively
affect change.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Shawna
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On 15-03-05 08:04 AM, Michael Gurstein wrote:
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Pardon my "tone" Anriette, but I find a UN
document signed off on by=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">significant elements of Civil Society which
excludes reference to=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"democracy" in favour of the vague and non-defined
terminology of=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"multistakeholderism=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">< <<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://gurstein.wordpress.com/2014/03/26/the-multistakeholder-model-=">https://gurstein.wordpress.com/2014/03/26/the-multistakeholder-model-=</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">neo-liberalism-and-global-internet-governance/> <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://gurstein.wordpress.=">https://gurstein.wordpress.=</a>
com/2014/03/26/the-multistakeholder-model-neo-liberalism-and-global-interne=
t-governance/>"
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">and which equally excludes references in any way
supportive of social
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">justice along with a rationalization of this
because of "lack of=20=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">space" and presumptions of "conceptual
baggage", as quite "demeaning"=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">of all those who were in any way a party to this
travesty.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">This combined with the non-transparency of the
selection of the=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">responsible parties and of their deliberative
activities and equally=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">of the provenance of the funding support provided
for the Civil=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Society component who were able to attend this
event and thus provide=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the overall framework of legitimacy for this
output document should I=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">think raise alarm bells among any with a degree of
independent=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">concern for how normative structures are evolving
(or "being=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">evolved") in this sphere.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">BTW, has APC debated and then agreed to favour
notions of=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">multistakeholderism over a commitment to democracy
as part of its own=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">normative structures as I queried in my previous
email?
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">M
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">-----Original Message----- From:=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net"><mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bes=">bestbits-request@lists.bes=</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">tbits.net
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">[ <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net"><mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@l=">mailto:bestbits-request@l=</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">ists.bestbits.net] On Behalf Of Anriette=20
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Esterhuysen Sent: March 5, 2015 2:36 AM To:
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"><mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
Cc=
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"><mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Subject: [bestbits] Remarks at UNESCO Closing
Ceremony of "Connecting=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the Dots Conference"
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Dear all
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Just an explanation and some context.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I was on the 'coordinating committee' of the
event. Our role was to=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">review comments on the draft statement and support
the chair and=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">secretariat in compiling drafts.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The final UNESCO outcome document did include the
vast majority of=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">text/proposals submitted by civil society
beforehand and onsite.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">This includes text submitted by Richard Hill on
behalf of JNC=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">(Richard made several editorial suggestions which
improved the
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">text) and text from Anita Gurumurthy from IT for
Change (which=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">greatly improved weakened language on gender in
the pre-final draft).
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The text on 'social and economic rights' were not
excluded for any=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">reason other than it came during the final session
and the=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Secretariat were trying to keep the document short
and linked=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">directly to the Study.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">It was decided to elaborate on the links to
broader rights, and to=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">UNESCO needing to work with other rights bodies,
in the final study=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">report rather than in the outcome statement.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Again, not ideal from my perspective, but that was
the outcome of the=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">discussion.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">It is a pity that 'democratic' was not added, but
it was never really=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">an option. I personally, and APC, support linking
democratic to=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">multistakeholder and we were happy that this
happened in the=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">NETmundial statement. And reading Norbert's text
below (thanks for=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">that Norbert) I would like to find a way to make
sure that the=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">meaning of democratic However, in the UN IG
context there is a very=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">particular angle to why
"democratic multistakeholder" is so=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">contentious. In the Tunis Agenda the word
"democratic" is directly=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">linked with the word "multilateral" - every time
it occurs. This=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">means that people/governments who feel that
'multilateral' can be=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">used to diminish the recognition given to the
importance of=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">multistakeholder participation, and take the
debate back=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">intergovernmental oversight of IG, will not agree
to having=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">'democratic'
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">in front of multistakeholder.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In the context of these UN type negotiations it
will be code for=20=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">reinserting multilateral (in the meaning of 'among
governments') into=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the text.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">At the NETmundial we had to fight for 'democratic
multistakeholder',=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">but because it is a 'new' text we succeeded.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The thing with documents that come out of the UN
system is that they=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">are full of invisible 'hyperlinks' to previous
documents and=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">political struggles that play themselves out in
multiple spaces.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I actually looked for a quote from the Tunis
Agenda that we could=20=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">insert (at Richard's suggestion) to see if I could
find a reference=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">to democratic that is not linked to 'multilateral'
but I could not=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">find this quote, and I showed this to Richard and
warned him that=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">unfortunately 'democratic' will most likely not be
included.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I can confirm that the editing group did consider
this seriously, but=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">that the number of objections to this text were
far greater than the=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">number of requests for putting it in.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">This is simply in the nature of consensus texts
that are negotiated=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">in this way.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">There was also much stronger text on anonymity and
encryption as=20=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">fundamental enablers of online privacy and freedom
of expression in=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the early draft. But it had to be toned down on
the insistence of the=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">government of Brazil as the Brazilian constitution
states that=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">anonymity is illegitimate.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Civil society never succeeds in getting everything
it wants in=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">documents we negotiate with governments. We have
to evaluate the=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">gains vs. the losses.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In my view the gains in this document outweighs
the losses.=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Supporting it means that we have UN agency who
has a presence in the=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">global south who will put issues that are
important to us on its=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">agenda, which will, I hope, create the opportunity
for more people=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">from civil society, particularly from developing
countries, to learn,=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">participate and influence internet-related debates
with=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">policy-makers.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Michael, as for your tone, and your allegations. I
don't really know=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">what to say about them. They are false, they are
destructive and they=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">demean not only the work of the civil society
organisations or=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">individuals you name, but also the work - and what
I believe to be=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the values - of the Just Net Coalition.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Anriette
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On 05/03/2015 11:46, Norbert Bollow wrote:
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 02:27:14 +0100
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Jeremy Malcolm < <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org%20%3cmailto:jmalcolm@eff.org"><mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org%20%3cmailto:jmalcolm@eff.org></a>=
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org">jmalcolm@eff.org</a> <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org"><mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org></a>>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">wrote:
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Mar 4, 2015, at 7:54 PM, Michael Gurstein
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">< <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com"><mailto:gurstein@gmail.com></a> <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">mailto:gurstein@gmail.com</a>>>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">wrote:
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Perhaps we could have an explanation from
Jeremy and others on the
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">drafting committee as to when and how
"democracy" and "social and
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">economic rights' became unacceptable terms
in a document meant to
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">have global significance?
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">With pleasure. This is why:
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="http://igfwatch.org/discussion-board/unesco-resists-jncs-attempt-to"><http://igfwatch.org/discussion-board/unesco-resists-jncs-attempt-to></a>=
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://igfwatch.org/discussion-board/unesco-resists-jncs-attempt-to">http://igfwatch.org/discussion-board/unesco-resists-jncs-attempt-to</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">-
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">t
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">urn-democracy-against-ordinary-internet-users
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I would like to hereby state clearly that what
Jeremy claims is=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">JNC's
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">view of "democratic multi-stakeholderism" is not
an actual position=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">of
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">JNC.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">For JNC, "democratic" simply means: democratic.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">We insist that just like governance at national
levels must be
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">democratic (which has been internationally
accepted as a human=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">right,
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">even if there are countries where this is not
currently implemented
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">satisfactorily), any and all global governance
must also be=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">democratic.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">JNC's foundational document, the Delhi
Declaration, states this as
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">follows:
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Globally, there is a severe democratic deficit
with regard to
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Internet governance. It is urgently required to
establish
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">appropriate platforms and mechanisms for global
governance of the
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Internet that are democratic and participative.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">We are opposed to any kind of system in which
multistakeholderism is
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">implemented in a way that is not democratic.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">We are *not* opposed to participative mechanisms
for global=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">governance
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">of the Internet. In fact we explicitly demand,
in our foundational
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">document, mechanisms for global governance of
the Internet which are
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">democratic *and* participative.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">This demand has nothing whatsoever to do with
what Jeremy claims is
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">our goal, which he describes as =E2=80=9Climited
type of government-led
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">rulemaking=E2=80=9D. That would clearly *not* be
participative.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">We insist that Internet governance must be
democratic *and*
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">participative.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Is that so hard to understand???
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The above-mentioned post of Jeremy also links,
twice, to an earlier
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">blog post of his, and he claims that he has
there "revealed ... the
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">agenda of the Just Net
Coalition". That post happens to be quite=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">full
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">of factually false assertions. I have now
published my response=20=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">(which
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">had previously been communicated in a non-public
manner) at
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="http://justnetcoalition.org/reply-jeremy-malcolm"><http://justnetcoalition.org/reply-jeremy-malcolm></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://justnetcoali=">http://justnetcoali=</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">tion.org/reply-jeremy-malcolm
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
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</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Greetings,
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Norbert
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">co-convenor, Just Net Coalition
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">=20
</pre>
</blockquote>
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<pre wrap=""> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
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href="http://JustNetCoalition.org">http://JustNetCoalition.org</a>
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