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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 05 March 2015 04:33 PM,
Shahzad Ahmad wrote:<br>
</div>
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...and adding to what Anriette said below, we are shocked to see
such a response from veterans and leaders of CSOs on IG. This
unfortunately, completely negates the spirit of working together.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Thanks Shahzadbhai <br>
I suppose you are referring here to Jeremy's blog? where he
continues his rant against JNC with extraordinary
mis-characterisations and mud slinging? this was missing in
Anriette's mail<br>
warm regards,<br>
Guru<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:54F8380D.3050305@bytesforall.pk" type="cite">
We have to continue to work together and strive for more building
upon and capitalizing on the small successes here an there.<br>
</blockquote>
the omission of 'democracy' is an extra ordinary loss, I am sure I
need not tell you this. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:54F8380D.3050305@bytesforall.pk" type="cite">
<br>
Thanks and best wishes<br>
Shahzad<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/5/15 3:35 PM, Anriette Esterhuysen wrote:<br>
<span style="white-space: pre;">> Dear all<br>
><br>
> Just an explanation and some context.<br>
><br>
> I was on the 'coordinating committee' of the event. Our
role was to<br>
> review comments on the draft statement and support the
chair and<br>
> secretariat in compiling drafts.<br>
><br>
> The final UNESCO outcome document did include the vast
majority of<br>
> text/proposals submitted by civil society beforehand and
onsite.<br>
><br>
> This includes text submitted by Richard Hill on behalf of
JNC (Richard<br>
> made several editorial suggestions which improved the text)
and text<br>
> from Anita Gurumurthy from IT for Change (which greatly
improved<br>
> weakened language on gender in the pre-final draft).<br>
><br>
> The text on 'social and economic rights' were not excluded
for any<br>
> reason other than it came during the final session and the
Secretariat<br>
> were trying to keep the document short and linked directly
to the Study.<br>
> It was decided to elaborate on the links to broader rights,
and to<br>
> UNESCO needing to work with other rights bodies, in the
final study<br>
> report rather than in the outcome statement.<br>
><br>
> Again, not ideal from my perspective, but that was the
outcome of the<br>
> discussion.<br>
><br>
> It is a pity that 'democratic' was not added, but it was
never really an<br>
> option. I personally, and APC, support linking democratic
to<br>
> multistakeholder and we were happy that this happened in
the NETmundial<br>
> statement. And reading Norbert's text below (thanks for
that Norbert) I<br>
> would like to find a way to make sure that the meaning of
democratic<br>
> However, in the UN IG context there is a very particular
angle to why<br>
> "democratic multistakeholder" is so contentious. In the
Tunis Agenda the<br>
> word "democratic" is directly linked with the word
"multilateral" -<br>
> every time it occurs. This means that people/governments
who feel that<br>
> 'multilateral' can be used to diminish the recognition
given to the<br>
> importance of multistakeholder participation, and take the
debate back<br>
> intergovernmental oversight of IG, will not agree to having
'democratic'<br>
> in front of multistakeholder.<br>
><br>
> In the context of these UN type negotiations it will be
code for<br>
> reinserting multilateral (in the meaning of 'among
governments') into<br>
> the text.<br>
><br>
> At the NETmundial we had to fight for 'democratic
multistakeholder', but<br>
> because it is a 'new' text we succeeded.<br>
><br>
> The thing with documents that come out of the UN system is
that they are<br>
> full of invisible 'hyperlinks' to previous documents and
political<br>
> struggles that play themselves out in multiple spaces.<br>
><br>
> I actually looked for a quote from the Tunis Agenda that we
could insert<br>
> (at Richard's suggestion) to see if I could find a
reference to<br>
> democratic that is not linked to 'multilateral' but I could
not find<br>
> this quote, and I showed this to Richard and warned him
that<br>
> unfortunately 'democratic' will most likely not be
included.<br>
><br>
> I can confirm that the editing group did consider this
seriously, but<br>
> that the number of objections to this text were far greater
than the<br>
> number of requests for putting it in.<br>
><br>
> This is simply in the nature of consensus texts that are
negotiated in<br>
> this way.<br>
><br>
> There was also much stronger text on anonymity and
encryption as<br>
> fundamental enablers of online privacy and freedom of
expression in the<br>
> early draft. But it had to be toned down on the insistence
of the<br>
> government of Brazil as the Brazilian constitution states
that anonymity<br>
> is illegitimate.<br>
><br>
> Civil society never succeeds in getting everything it wants
in documents<br>
> we negotiate with governments. We have to evaluate the
gains vs. the losses.<br>
><br>
> In my view the gains in this document outweighs the losses.
Supporting<br>
> it means that we have UN agency who has a presence in the
global south<br>
> who will put issues that are important to us on its agenda,
which will,<br>
> I hope, create the opportunity for more people from civil
society,<br>
> particularly from developing countries, to learn,
participate and<br>
> influence internet-related debates with policy-makers.<br>
><br>
> Michael, as for your tone, and your allegations. I don't
really know<br>
> what to say about them. They are false, they are
destructive and they<br>
> demean not only the work of the civil society organisations
or<br>
> individuals you name, but also the work - and what I
believe to be the<br>
> values - of the Just Net Coalition.<br>
><br>
> Anriette<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 05/03/2015 11:46, Norbert Bollow wrote:<br>
>> On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 02:27:14 +0100<br>
>> Jeremy Malcolm <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org"><jmalcolm@eff.org></a>
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> On Mar 4, 2015, at 7:54 PM, Michael Gurstein <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com"><gurstein@gmail.com></a><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Perhaps we could have an explanation from
Jeremy and others on the<br>
>>>> drafting committee as to when and how
"democracy" and "social and<br>
>>>> economic rights' became unacceptable terms in a
document meant to<br>
>>>> have global significance?<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> With pleasure. This is why:<br>
>>><br>
>>>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://igfwatch.org/discussion-board/unesco-resists-jncs-attempt-to-turn-democracy-against-ordinary-internet-users">http://igfwatch.org/discussion-board/unesco-resists-jncs-attempt-to-turn-democracy-against-ordinary-internet-users</a><br>
>><br>
>> I would like to hereby state clearly that what Jeremy
claims is JNC's<br>
>> view of "democratic multi-stakeholderism" is not an
actual position of<br>
>> JNC.<br>
>><br>
>> For JNC, "democratic" simply means: democratic.<br>
>><br>
>> We insist that just like governance at national levels
must be<br>
>> democratic (which has been internationally accepted as
a human right,<br>
>> even if there are countries where this is not currently
implemented<br>
>> satisfactorily), any and all global governance must
also be democratic.<br>
>><br>
>> JNC's foundational document, the Delhi Declaration,
states this as<br>
>> follows:<br>
>><br>
>> Globally, there is a severe democratic deficit with
regard to<br>
>> Internet governance. It is urgently required to
establish<br>
>> appropriate platforms and mechanisms for global
governance of the<br>
>> Internet that are democratic and participative.<br>
>><br>
>> We are opposed to any kind of system in which
multistakeholderism is<br>
>> implemented in a way that is not democratic.<br>
>><br>
>> We are *not* opposed to participative mechanisms for
global governance<br>
>> of the Internet. In fact we explicitly demand, in our
foundational<br>
>> document, mechanisms for global governance of the
Internet which are<br>
>> democratic *and* participative.<br>
>><br>
>> This demand has nothing whatsoever to do with what
Jeremy claims is our<br>
>> goal, which he describes as “limited type of
government-led<br>
>> rulemaking”. That would clearly *not* be participative.<br>
>><br>
>> We insist that Internet governance must be democratic
*and*<br>
>> participative.<br>
>><br>
>> Is that so hard to understand???<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> The above-mentioned post of Jeremy also links, twice,
to an earlier<br>
>> blog post of his, and he claims that he has there
"revealed ... the<br>
>> agenda of the Just Net Coalition". That post happens to
be quite full of<br>
>> factually false assertions. I have now published my
response (which had<br>
>> previously been communicated in a non-public manner) at<br>
>><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://justnetcoalition.org/reply-jeremy-malcolm">http://justnetcoalition.org/reply-jeremy-malcolm</a><br>
>><br>
>> Greetings,<br>
>> Norbert<br>
>> co-convenor, Just Net Coalition<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://JustNetCoalition.org">http://JustNetCoalition.org</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>
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<br>
- -- <br>
Shahzad Ahmad<br>
Country Director, Bytes for All, Pakistan<br>
IM: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:shahzad@jit.si">shahzad@jit.si</a> | Google Talk:
bytesforall<br>
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