<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body ><div>+1</div><div>Well said.</div><div>Money Yes but Fairness should be supreme.. </div><div><br></div><div>No Bribes, Lies, Detractions or Favours..among other unfair games which are played. </div><div><br></div><div>A very tall Wish List or a bitter pill?</div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards</div><div><br></div><div>Yassin </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size:9px;color:#575757">Sent from Samsung Mobile</div></div><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Mehrzad Azghandi <mehrzad.azghandi@gmail.com> <br>Date:29/01/2015 15:48 (GMT+02:00) <br>To: governance@lists.igcaucus.org,"chlebrum ." <chlebrum@gmail.com> <br>Cc: McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> <br>Subject: Re: [governance] [bestbits] Internet Social Forum <br><br><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div>So, where is the real Civil Society, when there are something in minds and opposite in speeches! . This is the truly Achilles' heel of MS-ism, when there are rare truly independent people in CS as well as there are among Academia & Technical.<div> <div>I agree that money is the issue for anybody, and we can't blame anybody who earn affordable money for his/her time and efforts. But the case of Big Money is different and is mostly concerned, when we are talking about $600K, which is officially announced, or when there are other investments which are hided from us!. I don't think that anybody believe that this procedure will get forward without money, but the presence of community may guaranty the accountability in process on actual movements and others in future. </div><div><br></div><div>On the other side, do we have any other options at his critical point, except moving forward and discussing more and more, trying to purify and empower Civil Society and MS-ism and truly decentralization?</div><div><br></div><div>I believe, independent people should participate in any possible way, and be ware that Money is a never ending story all around the world and Big Money knows how to find its way, even they participate or not. Money is assumed to accelerate the procedure, but at the moment, we are making it as a barrier for the community.</div><div><br></div><div>I was just thinking: what is forcing us to choose between NM initiative and ISF, or any other initiatives in future, when we claim we are independence and neutral, and trying to support MS-ism in any various perspectives? I suggest any individual may/should participate and support both or several, if he/she believes the principles of MS-ism; Transparency, Bottom up, Diversity, etc. </div><div> </div><div>BR </div><div><br></div><div>Mehrzad Azghandi<br><div><br></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 9:18 PM, chlebrum . <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chlebrum@gmail.com" target="_blank">chlebrum@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">It is funny to see an ICANN lobbyist cannot believe that we can mobilize for something else than money (hey yes, we pay oneself our travels in the real civil society or what we are not submarines governments (and wicked governments wicked, obviously).<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><div class="gmail_default">In fact, he discovers ... real people</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><span class=""><br clear="all"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:small;font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font color="#660000">Chantal Lebrument</font></div><div style="font-size:small;font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font color="#660000">Courriel: <a href="mailto:lebrument@open-root.eu" target="_blank">c</a><a href="mailto:hlebrum@gmail.com" target="_blank">hlebrum@gmail.com</a><br></font></div><div style="font-size:small;font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font color="#660000">Mob: <a href="tel:%2B33%206%208369%205460" value="+33683695460" target="_blank">+33 6 8369 5460</a></font></div></div></div></div>
<br></span><div><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_quote">2015-01-27 18:01 GMT+01:00 McTim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com" target="_blank">dogwallah@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Quoting a CircleID piece by Philip Corwin:<br><br><a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/20150125_occupy_ig_internet_social_forum_targets_netmundial_initiative/" target="_blank">http://www.circleid.com/posts/20150125_occupy_ig_internet_social_forum_targets_netmundial_initiative/</a><br><br>"The author is not familiar with most of the groups constituting ISF. As
always, a good rule for understanding true intent is "follow the money".
We'd find it illuminating to know where they get their funding and
whether any state actors are involved (and a colleague more familiar
with the global IG scene advises that at least several are indeed
closely linked to their national governments, and are unsurprisingly
more favorable toward the government-led multilateral approach on IG
than the private sector oriented MSM). So there is some question as to
whether ISF is a genuine grassroots Netizen movement — or a convergence
of government-dominated organizations pairing with "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot" target="_blank">useful idiot</a>”
entities to pursue a broader and more pernicious agenda of undermining
the MSM and replacing it with a UN-led, government-dominated one.
"<br><br><br><br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 1:23 AM, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net" target="_blank">jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Quoted a Register piece written by Kieren McCarthy</div><span><div><span style="font-size:13px">Hibernating NetMundial continues to rattle internet governance world </span><span style="font-size:13px"><a href="http://t.co/0D2vSUtqqf" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">reg.cx/2dZG</a></span></div><div><br></div></span><div><span style="font-family:Arial,FreeSans,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:21px"><p>As to NetMundial's three-month consultation period, that will seemingly be led by respected internet governance academic and ICANN Board member Wolfgang Kleinwachter. The NetMundial organizers did not reveal how much they will pay Kleinwachter to lend the initiative his credibility, but his first attempt to make the internet community learn to love the idea came in the form of a <a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/20150103_internet_governance_outlook_2015_2_processes_many_venues_4_baskets/" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(0,0,221)" target="_blank">blog post</a> at the start of the year.</p><p><br></p></span></div>
<br><div><div>Le 24 janv. 2015 à 00:21, parminder a écrit :</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div><br>On Friday 23 January 2015 11:31 PM, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">Hi Parminder,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">how the ISF is linked to the IGF?<br></blockquote><br>Hi Wolfgang<br><br>One is a civil society forum, the other a multistakeholder one. One develops people's and civil society's positions on the key issue of the global Internet, the other is a place where such positions can enter into dialogue with holders of political and economic power - the governments and the corporate actors.<br><br>Unless now the whole idea and concept of civil society - and along with those of people's movements, grassroots, activism, and so on - has been fully coopted in some people's mind with that of multistakeholderism (whatever one actually means by it, something that has remained notoriously unclear), the connection or link that you inquire about is extremely clear to me.<br><br>Internet is not the first thing for which there has been felt a need for 'independently' forming a people's conception and set of hopes, expectations and demands - away from conclaves of power. There have been scores of others, and newer ones continue to arise. Accordingly if people's and civil society forums etc have been meaningful and needed in these areas, it is incumbent upon *those* who think they are *not needed* in the Internet space to explain why it is so, then the other way around.<br><br>To put is somewhat flippantly, ISF is also a reaction of people who are fed up with an ongoing IG charade where for instance Fadi Chehade can with a straight face call the WEF's Net Mundial Initiative as the 'mother of all bottom -up processes' - even jokes require some plausibility limits!<br><br>To take the example of one of the latest international global forums on a key global governance issue, the Lima meeting on climate change, you will perhaps know that parallel to it a people's meeting was held. Internet and its governance also needs such meetings, that is the simple logic of the Internet Social Forum. If you think that in the Internet's case, such meetings and forums are not needed, I would of course be curious to hear your case.<br><br>I am happy to engage further with you on this issue, and answer your questions.<br><br>Lastly, let me invite you to join the ISF process. We work under the World Social Forum (WSF) process and principles - whereby its meetings are open to all civil society participants subject to very inimum conditions that are listed on their website.<br><br>Further, if the discussion is to now turn to the WSF, its meaning, relevance, etc, I am as happy to engage with you on that subject.<br><br>Regards, parminder<br><br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Wolfgang<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Von: <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> im Auftrag von parminder<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Gesendet: Do 22.01.2015 17:01<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">An: <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Betreff: Re: [governance] Internet Social Forum<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Enclosed Spanish version... parminder<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Thursday 22 January 2015 07:06 PM, Norbert Bollow wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Global Civil Society launches the Internet Social Forum<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">- With a call to occupy the Internet<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">PRESS RELEASE. Geneva, Switzerland, 22st January, 2015.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">A group of civil society organisations from around the world has<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">announced the Internet Social Forum, to bring together and articulate<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">bottom-up perspectives on the 'Internet we want'. Taking inspiration<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">from the World Social Forum, and its clarion call, 'Another World is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">possible', the group seeks to draw urgent attention to the increasing<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">centralization of the Internet for extraction of monopoly rents and for<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">socio-political control, asserting that 'Another Internet is possible'!<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The Internet Social Forum will inter alia offer an alternative to the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">recently-launched World Economic Forum's 'Net Mundial Initiative' on<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">global Internet governance. While the World Economic Forum (WEF) and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the 'Net Mundial Initiative' convene global elites, the Internet Social<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Forum will be a participatory and bottom-up space for all those who<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">believe that the global Internet must evolve in the public interest; a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">direct parallel to the launch of the World Social Forum in 2001 as a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">counter initiative to the WEF.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The Internet Social Forum will reach out to grassroots groups and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">social movements across the world, catalysing a groundswell that<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">challenges the entrenched elite interests that currently control how<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the Internet is managed. The Internet Social Forum's preparatory<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">process will kick off during the World Social Forum to take place in<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Tunis, March 24th to 28th, 2015. The Internet Social Forum itself is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">planned to be held either late 2015 or early 2016.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">"While the world's biggest companies have every right to debate the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">future of the Internet, we are concerned that their perspectives should<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">not drown out those of ordinary people who have no access to the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">privileged terrain WEF occupies - in the end it is this wider public<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">interest that must be paramount in governing the Internet. We are<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">organising the Internet Social Forum to make sure their voices can't be<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ignored in the corridors of power," said Norbert Bollow, Co-Convenor of<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the Just Net Coalition, which is one of the groups involved in the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">initiative.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The Internet Social Forum, and its preparatory process, is intended as<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">a space to vision and build the 'Internet we want'. It will be<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">underpinned by values of democracy, human rights and social justice. It<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">will stand for participatory policy making and promote community media.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">It will seek an Internet that is truly decentralized in its<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">architecture and based on people's full rights to data, information,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">knowledge and other 'commons' that the Internet has enabled the world<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">community to generate and share.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Somewhat similar to Web inventor Tim Berners-Lee's call for a 'Magna<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Carta for the Internet', the Internet Social Forum proposes to develop<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">a People's Internet Manifesto, through a bottom-up process involving<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">all concerned social groups and movements, in different areas, from<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">techies and ICT-for-development actors to media reform groups,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">democracy movements and social justice activists.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">This year will also see the 10 year high-level review of the World<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Summit on the Information Society (WSIS), to be held in New York in<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">December. As a full-scale review of a major UN summit, this will be a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">critical global political event. Since the WSIS, held in 2003 and 2005,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the Internet, and what it means socially, has undergone a paradigm<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">shift. The WSIS witnessed active engagement of civil society and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">technical groups as well as of business. However, currently, there<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">seems to be an deliberate attempt to sideline this UN-led initiative on<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">governance issues of the information society and Internet in favour of<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">private, big-business-dominated initiatives like the WEF's Net Mundial<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Initiative. The Internet Social Forum, while remaining primarily a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">people's forum, will also seek to channel global civil society's<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">engagement towards the WSIS +10 review.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The following organisations form the initial group that is proposing<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the Internet Social Forum, and many more are expected to join in the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">immediate future. This is an open call to progressive groups from all<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">over the world to join this initiative, and participate in developing a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">People's Internet Manifesto.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Just Net Coalition, Global<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">P2P Foundation, Global<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Transnational Institute, Global<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Forum on Communication for Integration of our America, Regional (Latin<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">America) Arab NGO Network for Development, Regional<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Agencia Latinoamericana de Información, Regional<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Alternative Informatics Association, Turkey<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Knowledge Commons, India<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Open-Root/EUROLINC, France<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">SLFC.in, India<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">CODE-IP Trust, Kenya<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://GodlyGlobal.org" target="_blank">GodlyGlobal.org</a>, Switzerland<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Centre for Community Informatics Research, Development and Training,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Canada IT for Change, India<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Association for Proper Internet Governance, Switzerland<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Computer Professionals Union, Philippines<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Free Press, USA<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Advocates of Science and Technology for the People, Philippines<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Other News, Italy<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Free Software Movement of India<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Global_Geneva, Switzerland<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Solidarius (Solidarity Economy Network), Italy<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">All India Peoples Science Network, India<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Institute for Local Self-Reliance - Community Broadband Networks, USA<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Please contact us at <a href="mailto:secretariat@InternetSocialForum.net" target="_blank">secretariat@InternetSocialForum.net</a> for further<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">information or clarification.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Or the following regional contacts:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Africa: Alex Gakaru <<a href="mailto:AlexG@InternetSocialForum.net" target="_blank">AlexG@InternetSocialForum.net</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Asia: Rishab Bailey <<a href="mailto:RishabB@InternetSocialForum.net" target="_blank">RishabB@InternetSocialForum.net</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Europe: Norbert Bollow <<a href="mailto:NorbertB@InternetSocialForum.net" target="_blank">NorbertB@InternetSocialForum.net</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">North America: Micheal Gurstein <<a href="mailto:MichealG@InternetSocialForum.net" target="_blank">MichealG@InternetSocialForum.net</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">South America: Sally Burch <<a href="mailto:SallyB@InternetSocialForum.net" target="_blank">SallyB@InternetSocialForum.net</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">This press release is also available online, e.g. at<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://justnetcoalition.org/ISF" target="_blank">http://justnetcoalition.org/ISF</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br></div></div><span>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br></span><span> <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>.<br>To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:<br> <a href="http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits" target="_blank">http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br></div><br>____________________________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><i style="font-family:georgia,serif"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,153)" size="4">Mehrzad Azghandi</font></i><br></div>
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