<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body ><div>Democracy in the governance of the Internet. ..?</div><div>STEP ONE: There has to be an Agreed Framework ...is there any yet? </div><div><br></div><div>WHY is it so?... It seems that there are many and conflicting ideas already which are led by different interest groups such as the Civil Society, Self - selected groups of individuals, some Governments through the UN System, Technical organisations, the ICANN structure itself and more to come as the Internet-based economies develop.</div><div><br></div><div>Sustainability of any changes to current status will depend on the Agreed Framework and NOT by putting pressure through the attempt to democratise its governance. Abive all the negotiation for this process need to be through transparent actions. ..</div><div><br></div><div>New Year Wishes. ..</div><div><br></div><div>Yassin</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size:9px;color:#575757">Sent from Samsung Mobile</div></div><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com> <br>Date:28/12/2014 20:59 (GMT+02:00) <br>To: parminder <parminder@itforchange.net> <br>Cc: bestbits@lists.bestbits.net,governance@lists.igcaucus.org <br>Subject: [governance] Re: [bestbits] FW: [] NETmundial Initiative Announces Formation of its Inaugural Coordination Council and a Broad Global Community Consultation Phase | NETmundial <br><br><br>China may have a lot of domestic control over their portion of the<br>internet but they still need to deal with the rest of the world. That<br>includes trade as one major example.<br><br>Granted so long as China is primarily a manufacturer rather than a<br>retailer many of these global trade internet governance issues don't<br>directly concern them (one can always quibble that sort of point with<br>a contagion model.) So long as someone can sell China's goods the<br>orders will keep coming.<br><br>As the Chinese become wealthier the aspect of Chinese as internet<br>trade consumers will grow. I suppose if that's a problem for the<br>Chinese govt they could if they wanted control this.<br><br>It's not so simple.<br><br>But point taken vis a vis criticisms of the UN vs how the same might<br>apply to NMI.<br><br>On December 28, 2014 at 09:48 parminder@itforchange.net (parminder) wrote:<br> > <br> > To my understanding, for most of those who now support the NMI, the <br> > case against UN institutions' involvement with IG was the presence of <br> > Chinas and Irans over there - how can we trust our Internet to such <br> > authoritarian governments?! It is a bit strange to see a special <br> > happiness being expressed when the same actors now join the NMI. What is <br> > one missing here?<br> > <br> > The fact is that China has such a iron grip over its Internet - <br> > politically and economic-ally, that it is no longer greatly interested <br> > in more and better (as in more democratic) global governance of the <br> > Internet. It can do with forums to make deals and adjustments, and that <br> > is about all. That is China's attraction for the NMI, and here is where <br> > its interests partially overlap with those of the US, whose whole effort <br> > is to block any move whatsoever towards globally democratic governance <br> > of the Internet. What we therefore see is a move that is in the interest <br> > of all those who already have the most power in terms of the global <br> > Internet, they have a forum to negotiate their narrow interests. And <br> > all those currently dis-empowered lose out and are worse off. (Apart <br> > from some crumbs throwing business.)<br> > <br> > In welcoming a forum where the 'biggies' are given positions, and the <br> > 'ordinary' get ignored is obviously problematic in itself. Worse, it <br> > pushes countries towards a model of global governance where the way to <br> > go is seen to be to seek means of making exclusive deals and negotiating <br> > narrow interests, instead of a pursuance of the global public interest <br> > (ok, I can hear sniggers, which is precisely the problem), which is what <br> > a UN kind of global governance system is under-pinned by. It distorts <br> > the very political thinking and philosophy that needs to form the basis <br> > of our shared global living. Big loss, really.<br> > <br> > parminder<br> > <br> > <br> > On Saturday 27 December 2014 10:48 PM, Avri Doria wrote:<br> > ><br> > > Good point.<br> > ><br> > > avri<br> > ><br> > ><br> > > On 26-Dec-14 19:16, Izumi AIZU wrote:<br> > >><br> > >> I see at least two names from China as very interesting or <br> > >> significant: Minister Lu Wei and Jack Ma of Alibaba, both were <br> > >> central figures at the World Internet Conference held in Wuzhen, <br> > >> China last month. Their participation in this Multistakeholder <br> > >> venture is a good sign.<br> > >><br> > >> I also hope our Civil Society colleagues actively engage and advance <br> > >> our core values.<br> > >><br> > >> Of course, there are certain or uncertain elements that are <br> > >> troublesome, but I like to remain constructive, critical, but more <br> > >> positive.<br> > >><br> > >> And Happy holidays and New Year to all!!<br> > >><br> > >> Izumi<br> > >><br> > >> 2014/12/25 3:21 "Lee W McKnight" <lmcknigh@syr.edu <br> > >> <mailto:lmcknigh@syr.edu>>:<br> > >><br> > >> FYI and happy holidays!<br> > >><br> > >><br> > >> Lee<br> > >><br> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> > >> *From:* Dave Farber via ip <ip@listbox.com <mailto:ip@listbox.com>><br> > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 24, 2014 10:58 AM<br> > >> *To:* ip<br> > >> *Subject:* [IP] NETmundial Initiative Announces Formation of its<br> > >> Inaugural Coordination Council and a Broad Global Community<br> > >> Consultation Phase | NETmundial<br> > >><br> > >> https://www.netmundial.org/blog/secretariat/netmundial-initiative-announces-formation-its-inaugural-coordination-council-and<br> > >><br> > >> Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now><br> > >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/8923115-8446eb07><br> > >> | Modify<br> > >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8923115&id_secret=8923115-86ed04cc><br> > >> Your Subscription | Unsubscribe Now<br> > >> <https://www.listbox.com/unsubscribe/?member_id=8923115&id_secret=8923115-e899f1f0&post_id=20141224105832:B3E1D282-8B85-11E4-A91F-F4DD3793BE5A><br> > >> <http://www.listbox.com/><br> > >><br> > >><br> > >> ____________________________________________________________<br> > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> > >> bestbits@lists.bestbits.net <mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net>.<br> > >> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:<br> > >> http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits<br> > >><br> > >><br> > >><br> > >> ____________________________________________________________<br> > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> > >> bestbits@lists.bestbits.net.<br> > >> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:<br> > >> http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits<br> > ><br> > ><br> > ><br> > > ____________________________________________________________<br> > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> > > bestbits@lists.bestbits.net.<br> > > To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:<br> > > http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits<br> > <br> > <html><br> > <head><br> > <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"><br> > </head><br> > <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><br> > <br><br> > To my understanding, for most of those who now support the NMI, the<br> > case against UN institutions' involvement with IG was the presence<br> > of Chinas and Irans over there - how can we trust our Internet to<br> > such authoritarian governments?! It is a bit strange to see a<br> > special happiness being expressed when the same actors now join the<br> > NMI. What is one missing here?<br><br> > <br><br> > The fact is that China has such a iron grip over its Internet -<br> > politically and economic-ally, that it is no longer greatly<br> > interested in more and better (as in more democratic) global<br> > governance of the Internet. It can do with forums to make deals and<br> > adjustments, and that is about all. That is China's attraction for<br> > the NMI, and here is where its interests partially overlap with <br> > those of the US, whose whole effort is to block any move whatsoever<br> > towards globally democratic governance of the Internet. What we<br> > therefore see is a move that is in the interest of all those who<br> > already have the most power in terms of the global Internet, they<br> > have a forum to negotiate their narrow interests. And all those<br> > currently dis-empowered lose out and are worse off. (Apart from some<br> > crumbs throwing business.)<br><br> > <br><br> > In welcoming a forum where the 'biggies' are given positions, and<br> > the 'ordinary' get ignored is obviously problematic in itself.<br> > Worse, it pushes countries towards a model of global governance<br> > where the way to go is seen to be to seek means of making exclusive<br> > deals and negotiating narrow interests, instead of a pursuance of<br> > the global public interest (ok, I can hear sniggers, which is<br> > precisely the problem), which is what a UN kind of global governance<br> > system is under-pinned by. It distorts the very political thinking<br> > and philosophy that needs to form the basis of our shared global<br> > living. Big loss, really. <br><br> > <br><br> > parminder <br><br> > <br><br> > <br><br> > <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Saturday 27 December 2014 10:48 PM,<br> > Avri Doria wrote:<br><br> > </div><br> > <blockquote cite="mid:549EE9F1.4090909@acm.org" type="cite"><br> > <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"><br> > <br><br> > Good point.<br><br> > <br><br> > avri<br><br> > <br><br> > <br><br> > <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26-Dec-14 19:16, Izumi AIZU wrote:<br><br> > </div><br> > <blockquote<br> > cite="mid:CA+YNoKib5Nda9mAzeubZ-oKYkMxP=bwxnGH=B2Yvkn3bx9dHSw@mail.gmail.com"<br> > type="cite"><br> > <meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html; "><br> > <p dir="ltr">I see at least two names from China as very<br> > interesting or significant: Minister Lu Wei and Jack Ma of<br> > Alibaba, both were central figures at the World Internet<br> > Conference held in Wuzhen, China last month. Their<br> > participation in this Multistakeholder venture is a good sign.</p><br> > <p dir="ltr">I also hope our Civil Society colleagues actively<br> > engage and advance our core values.</p><br> > <p dir="ltr">Of course, there are certain or uncertain elements<br> > that are troublesome, but I like to remain constructive,<br> > critical, but more positive.</p><br> > <p dir="ltr">And Happy holidays and New Year to all!!</p><br> > <p dir="ltr">Izumi<br><br> > </p><br> > <div class="gmail_quote">2014/12/25 3:21 "Lee W McKnight" <<a<br> > moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:lmcknigh@syr.edu">lmcknigh@syr.edu</a>>:<br<br> > type="attribution"><br> > <blockquote class="gmail_quote"><br> > <div><br> > <div><br> > <p>FYI and happy holidays!</p><br> > <p><br><br> > </p><br> > <p>Lee<br><br> > </p><br> > <div><br> > <hr><br> > <div dir="ltr"><b>From:</b> Dave Farber via ip <<a<br> > moz-do-not-send="true"<br> > href="mailto:ip@listbox.com" target="_blank">ip@listbox.com</a>><br><br> > <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 24, 2014 10:58 AM<br><br> > <b>To:</b> ip<br><br> > <b>Subject:</b> [IP] NETmundial Initiative Announces<br> > Formation of its Inaugural Coordination Council and<br> > a Broad Global Community Consultation Phase |<br> > NETmundial<br> > <div> </div><br> > </div><br> > <div><br> > <p dir="ltr"><a moz-do-not-send="true"<br> > href="https://www.netmundial.org/blog/secretariat/netmundial-initiative-announces-formation-its-inaugural-coordination-council-and"<br> > target="_blank">https://www.netmundial.org/blog/secretariat/netmundial-initiative-announces-formation-its-inaugural-coordination-council-and</a></p><br> > <div><br> > <table width="100%"><br> > <tbody><br> > <tr><br> > <td><a moz-do-not-send="true" title="Go to<br> > archives for ip"<br> > href="https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now"<br> > target="_blank">Archives</a> <a<br> > moz-do-not-send="true" title="RSS feed<br> > for ip"<br> > 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<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><br> > <br><br> > <pre wrap="">____________________________________________________________<br> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> > <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>.<br> > To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:<br> > <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits">http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits</a></pre><br> > </blockquote><br> > <br><br> > </body><br> > </html><br> > ____________________________________________________________<br> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> > bestbits@lists.bestbits.net.<br> > To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:<br> > http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits<br><br>-- <br> -Barry Shein<br><br>The World | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com<br>Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, 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