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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 04 December 2014 12:35 AM,
Lee W McKnight wrote:<br>
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<p>Milton,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>You are being too kind in describing the abject failure of
those past non-neo-liberal policies, which had truly vile
effects.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Waiting lists stretched up to...12 years...for a simple
landline phone, in admittedly 'worst' cases.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Post-liberalization entry of mobile phones uncovered such
extreme unmet demand that 1st mobiles (with
service subscription) could sell for up to $50,000 - 20 years
ago, in one case I am familiar with. Yeah that's right, when
all one could do with a mobile was make a call.<br>
</p>
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<br>
<br>
Lee<br>
<br>
If you/ Milton would claim deregulation of the communication sector
in 1990s and 2000s as a final triumph of neoliberalism then would
you call the recent call by most US civil society groups, and also
by your President, for re-regulating the Internet as a tier 2
(telecom) service, as the US slipping into socialism... Just for the
sake of consistency perhaps :) . And perhaps to take from the
'Internet is neoliberal', epithet of Milton, can we say that the
Internet is now on the way to becoming socialist.. <br>
<br>
Remember, it is Milton that proposed the neoliberal - socialist
binary, and you seem to be supporting it. I am just further
exploring the possible implications of that binary.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
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<p><br>
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<p>Lee<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div style="color: #282828;">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;">
<div dir="ltr" id="divRplyFwdMsg"><font style="font-size:
11pt;" color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org"><governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org></a> on behalf of
Milton L Mueller <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"><mueller@syr.edu></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 3, 2014 12:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> '<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>'; 'Avri Doria';
'Bits <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [bestbits] [governance] Re: NMI and
the Brazilian CGI.br</font>
<div> </div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">Can
I introduce some rationality to this discussion?
</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">First,
neo-liberalism is not per se a “vile label” unless
you think liberalism is vile, in which case you need
to explain to me why you think freedom of thought,
expression, association, choice, popular sovereignty
and free trade are vile, all of which are the key
features of liberalism as an ideology or movement.
</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">Neo-liberalism
in literal terms simply refers to the revival of
liberal thought that occurred in the 1970s and 1980s
(i.e., “neo” + “liberal”) following the economic
stagnation brought on by the excesses of the social
democracy and regulatory state that emerged in the
1920s and 30s. Whatever you think of the economic
liberalizations of that period, it’s pretty hard to
argue with the record of stagflation, budget crises
of the welfare state, slowing or declining growth,
and a record of complete failure by
socialist/communist economies that occurred in that
period.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">Thus,
neo-liberalism does not mean indiscriminate
application of market principles to everything, but
it did reflect a recognition that many parts of
society or the economy which had been exempted from
market forces were failing and could be improved
through the introduction of competition and market
forces.
</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">The
centerpiece of neoliberalism was globalization of
the economy and free trade. The term neoliberalism
was coined as part of the backlash against trade
liberalization and the attempt by certain
international institutions to enforce budget
constraints and sectoral liberalization policies on
developing countries as a condition for receiving
loans or aid. This is where some of the abuses or
harder hands of the Washington approach to
liberalization could be felt; sometimes the
cookie-cutter approach to policy that was imposed
was inappropriate. But for the most part, that
period saw rapid worldwide growth and development.
In particular, China and India opened their
economies to market forces and grew tremendously as
a result.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">When
I say that the Internet was a product of neoliberal
policies I am referring to several largely
indisputable facts: </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><span>a)<font
face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span
style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></font></span></span></font><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">Prior
to ‘neoliberal’ policies the telecom system was the
epitome of social democracy: it was run as a
state-owned monopoly, market forces were largely
absent. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><span>b)<font
face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span
style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></font></span></span></font><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">The
developmental record of state-owned PTT monopolies
was abysmal, there were 1% - 10% penetration rates,
6 months waiting lists for service, massive
inefficiency and protectionism. Opponents of
neoliberalism need to own up to this.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><span>c)<font
face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span
style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></font></span></span></font><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">Competition
stimulated rapid improvements in technology and
massive decreases in pricing for telecom services</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><span>d)<font
face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span
style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></font></span></span></font><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">Free
trade agreements for IT equipment and “information
services” made it possible for TCP/IP based services
to spread rapidly across the world regardless of
state censorship or regulation</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">In
short, if you care about prosperity, growth,
economic development and freedom, and you want to
have an intelligent discussion of the role of public
policy in the internet economy, all these things
need to be taken into account. If you want to call
people names, I’m not interested.
</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">--MM</span></font></p>
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size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"> </span></font></p>
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face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
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windowtext; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font
color="black" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"calibri",sans-serif; color:
windowtext;">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf
Of </span></b>Avri Doria<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Tuesday, December 2, 2014 1:47 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Bits
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [bestbits] [governance] Re: NMI and the
Brazilian CGI.br</span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#330033" face="Times
New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#330033" face="Times
New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#330033" face="Times
New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On
02-Dec-14 07:38, parminder wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#330033" face="Times
New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Neoliberalism
is defined as the application of market
principles to everything, including those areas
in which such principles are not normally
applied. The above is a perfect case of the
application of market principles to governance,
as I said , the pristine neoliberal governance
model.
</span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#330033" face="Times
New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
You may feel it is your privilege to villify
others by tarring and feathering them with the
vile label of neoliberalism sometimes and
imperialism at other times. I accept that you do
so, yet I reject the label you apply to me.<br>
<br>
I generally do not support market principles, but
rather believe in the tussle among those with
different set of principles.<br>
<br>
avri</span></font></p>
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