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<div>I am MORE in favor IGC engaging with NMI because:</div>
<ol style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; list-style-type: decimal;">
<li style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Color Emoji", "Calibri", "Segoe UI", "Meiryo", "Microsoft YaHei UI", "Microsoft JhengHei UI", "Malgun Gothic", "sans-serif"; font-size: 16px;">
<div>the rationale and explanations from Carlos Afonso and cgi.br colleagues are clear and sensible; those who helped pull off NetMundial have earned IGC’s support
</div>
</li><li style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Color Emoji", "Calibri", "Segoe UI", "Meiryo", "Microsoft YaHei UI", "Microsoft JhengHei UI", "Malgun Gothic", "sans-serif"; font-size: 16px;">
<div>The views of the I-orgs, who were against IGF before they were for it (cough cough), are also clear but less convincing, seeing as those orgs do not claim to be the appropriate venues themselves to address the range of issues likely to be (in my opinion)
brought to NMI, and offer no alternative. Should NMI prove to be of some merit, no doubt the I orgs will engage at a later date.</div>
</li><li style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Color Emoji", "Calibri", "Segoe UI", "Meiryo", "Microsoft YaHei UI", "Microsoft JhengHei UI", "Malgun Gothic", "sans-serif"; font-size: 16px;">
<div>Likewise, the more JNC has explained its views, the less weight they hold, seeing as they appear focused on a specifically anti-US big (internet) business animus , completely neglecting to note the new giants on the block such as Alibaba's record-setting
IPO which has resulted in a firm that has a market cap far exceeding the Amazon boogeyman, as well as Walmart's. (not that there is anything wrong with Alibaba, but obsessively picking on the little guy/small(er) business - Amazon ; ) - seems to be misplaced
and unhelpful to multistakeholder dialog and governance. (OK to be fair JNC is in good company picking on Amazon, since like JNC, Wall Street is also giving Amazon a hard time of late, as are European publishers Hachette and Springer who are also managing
to push back against Amazon themselves. Anyway, this anti-Amazon obsession of some is but a sideshow/distraction to consideration of broader Internet governance issues and should therefore carry limited weight in IGC's own considerations, although of course
everyone is free to voice whatever views they wish, whether of Amazon or something more relevant to the issues at hand.
</div>
</li><li style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Color Emoji", "Calibri", "Segoe UI", "Meiryo", "Microsoft YaHei UI", "Microsoft JhengHei UI", "Malgun Gothic", "sans-serif"; font-size: 16px;">
<div>Last but not least, the historical triumph of - cgi.br and ICANN coopting WEF - to facilitate industry engagement in broader IG policy issues discussions and implementations should be recognized for what it is, and not mistaken for a sign of the failure
but rather is a mark of success/the mainstreaming of Internet governance, as matters of truly global Import and requiring truly global solutions. </div>
</li></ol>
<div data-signatureblock="true"><br>
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<div data-signatureblock="true">Sent from Windows Mail</div>
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<div style="padding-top: 5px; border-top-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-top-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid;">
<div><font face=" 'Calibri', 'Segoe UI', 'Meiryo', 'Microsoft YaHei UI', 'Microsoft JhengHei UI', 'Malgun Gothic', 'sans-serif'" style="line-height: 15pt; letter-spacing: 0.02em; font-family: "Calibri", "Segoe UI", "Meiryo", "Microsoft YaHei UI", "Microsoft JhengHei UI", "Malgun Gothic", "sans-serif"; font-size: 12pt;"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:nnenna75@gmail.com" target="_parent">Nnenna
Nwakanma</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 23, 2014 10:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_parent"><governance@lists.igcaucus.org></a></font></div>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div dir="">
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<div>
<div>It is Monday 3:40 AM GMT.<br>
<br>
</div>
I am STILL in favour of IGC engaging with NMI.<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
Nnenna<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Sivasubramanian M <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com" target="_parent">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small;">
Dear David Cake,</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span>On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 10:47 AM, David Cake <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:dave@difference.com.au" target="_parent">dave@difference.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
<div style="-ms-word-wrap: break-word;">Siva, there is a big difference between including WEF in the process, and having them run the process by their own rules.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I *welcome* the involvement of WEF in open, participatory, multi-stakeholder spaces - they are in a good position to eloquently express some of the positions of the commercial sector. Often, commercial representatives within IG processes often represent
small sectors of the commercial world with very strong biases towards particular issues (such as telcos and copyright cartels), WEF might be able to provide a broader commercial perspective, and maybe commercial representation in IG spaces might not be quite
so dominated by a small cabal. And note, welcoming the involvement of such organisations is not the same as having sympathy for their policy positions and actions, simply I'd rather debate those positions in an open, transparent, multi-stakeholder fora, rather
than have to battle covert lobbying and decision making in closed or opaque fora in which CS has no voice. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
<div style="-ms-word-wrap: break-word;">
<div>But I *oppose* considering WEF processes as equivalent to open multi-stakeholder ones in legitimacy. WEFs own processes are not open, they are strictly gatekeepered. And they are commercial led processes, with commercial goals. WEF is, of course, welcome
to keep doing those things, but such processes should not be considered legitimate means of producing multi-stakeholder transnational consensus. And this NMI process certainly started with assumptions that reflect the problems with WEF processes, such as choosing
the CS sector representatives that the WEF wanted. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small;">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small;">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small;">
1. NETmundial is not in any way 'folded into' the WEF, so it does not become part of WEF. WEF is to be seen as an organization that has joined other organizations in this initiative. WEF processes may not be open, (it is upto the WEF to decide on its own style
of managing their business forum), but as a participant of the NETmundial Initiative, WEF may not overwhelm this process with its own style. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small;">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small;">
2. NETMundial Initiative is a multi-stakeholder process where each stakeholder group would balance the other groups. If the initial NMI processes weren't perfect, I would rather consider it not so well thought of - in its early stages. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small;">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small;">
As Harmut Glaser says, "<span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">It is up for the </span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">community to transform NMI into something
that is concrete and useful </span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">for the advancement of IG in full respects of the principles enshrined </span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">in
the NETmundial declaration.</span>
<div class="gmail_default" style="display: inline;">" </div>
</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small;">
<div class="gmail_default" style="display: inline;"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small;">
<div class="gmail_default" style="display: inline;">Sivasubramanian M</div>
</div>
</font></span></div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
<div style="-ms-word-wrap: break-word;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, yes, bringing in the WEF can be considered a positive in some ways - but not in the way the NMI process has gone so far. </div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>David</div>
</font></span>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 19 Nov 2014, at 5:21 pm, Sivasubramanian M <<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com" target="_parent">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small;">
Dear Guru,</div>
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small;">
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
<span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial;">
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small; display: inline;">
(You (Guru) said: </div>
WEF is a primarily group of big businesses. We have seen the increasing danger to the ideals of the WSIS Declaration of Principles from the activities of transnational corporations. Apart from using/monetising our data for their commercial gains in authorised/unauthorised/</span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial;">illegitimate/illegal
ways, their unregulated work also is structuring our participation in the information society in many unhealthy ways. Through Snowden we also understand how many of them are in cahoots with the 5 eyes (USG+) on extraordinary programme of global surveillance</span></blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); display: inline;"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">If such as strong generalization of big business is to be accepted as fair and valid, then all those who subscribe to such a generalization may have to go back to the WSIS
declarations and summarily exclude Business as a Stakeholder group, and then declare that Internet Governance ought to be a process with two stakeholder groups - Government + Civil Society. No, no, on second thoughts I see your reference to Snowden and USG+,
so the Civil Society could exclude Government from Internet Governance, and declare that Internet Governance must be reinvented as a single stakeholder group process, with Civil Society as the only stakeholder group. </font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); display: inline;"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); display: inline;"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">
<div style="display: inline;">Seriously, i</div>
<div style="display: inline;">f WSIS had committed to build a "</div>
<span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">people-centred, inclusive and development-oriented Information Society
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); display: inline;">", what happens to inclusiveness and development with such a position on Big Business? </div>
</span><br>
</font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); display: inline;"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); display: inline;"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">And, why this hatred for big business? Most progress in this world has happened because of enterprise, much more because of business than because of Government. Granted,
some of the information technology big businesses have worked with Governments on surveillance designs, and even there, we do not know how of much of such cooperation came out of a desire for profit and how much of it was forced by arm-twisting or by milder
pressures in so many subtle and imaginative ways. </font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); display: inline;"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Irrespective of how WEF's role has been articulated at the moment, it is a very positive development to bring in the WEF
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small; display: inline;">
. </div>
</font></span>
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; display: inline;">
</div>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif;">WEF participation suddenly expands business participation to a world of business outside the IT sector, so WEF's attention to IG issues might by itself act as a balancing influence within
the corporate world, because many of these Big Businesses are Internet "users" themselves.
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; font-size: small; display: inline;">
Some of these Big Businesses are possibly charitable in unknown ways. What is needed here is strong support at the moment, and w</div>
</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif;">e could
</span>
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; display: inline;">
eventually </div>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif;">work towards a greater balance across stakeholder groups.
</span>
<div style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: verdana,sans-serif; display: inline;">
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy" target="_parent">Sivasubramanian M</a></div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Guru <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Guru@itforchange.net" target="_parent">Guru@itforchange.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
<div>Dear Mawaki<br>
<br>
I would like to cite from two sources:<br>
<br>
A. WSIS Declaration of Principles - <a href="http://www.itu.int/wsis/docs/geneva/official/dop.html" target="_parent">
http://www.itu.int/wsis/docs/geneva/official/dop.html</a> (the very first two clauses)<br>
<br>
1. We, the representatives of the peoples of the world*, *assembled in Geneva from 10-12 December 2003 for the first phase of the World Summit on the Information Society,* declare our common desire and commitment to build a people-centred, inclusive and development-oriented
Information Society, where everyone can create, access, utilize and share information and knowledge, enabling individuals, communities and peoples to achieve their full potential in promoting their sustainable development and improving their quality of life,
premised on the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and respecting fully and upholding the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.<br>
2. Our challenge* is to harness the potential of information and communication technology to promote the development goals of the Millennium Declaration, namely the eradication of extreme poverty and hunger; achievement of universal primary education; promotion
of gender equality and empowerment of women; reduction of child mortality; improvement of maternal health; to combat HIV/AIDS, malaria and other diseases; ensuring environmental sustainability; and development of global partnerships for development for the
attainment of a more peaceful, just and prosperous world. We also reiterate our commitment to the achievement of sustainable development and agreed development goals, as contained in the Johannesburg Declaration and Plan of Implementation and the Monterrey
Consensus, and other outcomes of relevant United Nations Summits.<br>
<br>
I now will cite from the WEF site - <a href="http://www.weforum.org/our-members" target="_parent">
http://www.weforum.org/our-members</a><br>
<br>
Begin<br>
Our Members<br>
The World Economic Forum is a membership organization. Our Members comprise 1,000 of the world’s top corporations, global enterprises usually with more than US$ 5 billion in turnover. These enterprises rank among the top companies within their industry and
play a leading role in shaping the future of their industry and region. Some of our Member companies join the Forum’s Strategic and Industry Partnership communities, which are designed to deepen their engagement with the Forum’s events, project and initiatives.
The Forum’s Members are at the heart of all our activities.<br>
End<br>
<br>
It is clear that WEF is a primarily group of big businesses. We have seen the increasing danger to the ideals of the WSIS Declaration of Principles from the activities of transnational corporations. Apart from using/monetising our data for their commercial
gains in authorised/unauthorised/illegitimate/illegal ways, their unregulated work also is structuring our participation in the information society in many unhealthy ways. Through Snowden we also understand how many of them are in cahoots with the 5 eyes (USG+)
on extraordinary programme of global surveillance, which helps them in their goals of political-economic domination / colonisation
<br>
<br>
Participating in forums anchored in such a space will only legitimise their power. I am clear that IGC should not participate in the NMI.<br>
<br>
thanks and regards<br>
Guru<br>
<br>
Gurumurthy Kasinathan<br>
Director, IT for Change<br>
In Special Consultative Status with the United Nations ECOSOC<br>
<a href="http://www.itforchange.net/" target="_parent">www.ITforChange.Net</a>| Cell:<a href="tel:91%209845437730" target="_parent">91 9845437730</a> | Tel:<a href="tel:91%2080%2026654134" target="_parent">91 80 26654134</a>, 26536890<br>
<a href="http://karnatakaeducation.org.in/KOER/en/index.php/Subject_Teacher_Forum" target="_parent">http://karnatakaeducation.org.in/KOER/en/index.php/Subject_Teacher_Forum</a>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
On Tuesday 18 November 2014 05:02 PM, Mawaki Chango wrote:<br>
<span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">> Dear All,<br>
> <br>
> You must have heard a good deal about this by now, so I won't repeat<br>
> the background details. In the middle of the night last night, before<br>
> hitting the bed after a long and drawn out day playing catch-up with<br>
> deadlines, I saw that Ian (chair of CSCG) forwarded the NMI<br>
> Transitional Committee's reply the CSCG enquiry. Basically, they are<br>
> willing to let the CSCG vet CS candidates to be part of the NMI<br>
> Coordination Council.<br>
> <br>
> Now the question before us is to get a feel of the membership of CSCG<br>
> member entities as to whether to get involved in the NMI process or<br>
> not. I believe this is the last step in the consultations we've been<br>
> having (with NMI initiators, among ourselves at the CSCG and with the<br>
> membership of our respective organizations.) After this we should be<br>
> able to give a definite answer, formulate a definite position about<br>
> our participation in the NMI process.<br>
> <br>
> So what do you think? Please get right to the point and be brief.<br>
> State your preference for IGC Involvement or No involvement and, if<br>
> you care to provide us with such, I would be grateful to you if you<br>
> could keep your supporting argument in one short paragraph (as we<br>
> just want to take the "temperature of the room" if you see what I<br>
> mean.)<br>
> <br>
> Thank you for your understanding. Best regards.<br>
> <br>
> Mawaki<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> </span><br>
<br>
<br>
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