<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-size: medium; border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-size: medium; border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-size: medium; border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">Jeanette,<br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div><div>Thanks for sharing Anja's skepticism. But Anja has expressed, more importantly in my opinion, precise questions and given detailed information that ignited her skepticism. Where are the answers to her questions? Anriette has made suggestions: where are the reactions? Talking about relevant actors: is WEF a relevant actor? WEF is a network of corporations, big ones. Shouldn't civil society engage instead the smaller entrepreneurs, who creates much more jobs that the WEF membership? What is the criteria to say that it is worth to engage WEF rather than other groupings? WEF has a high media added-value. I agree, but then just ask for a tribune in Davos, to start with.</div><div><br></div><div>You question the qualified and trustworthy candidates, fine, but you totally ignore to answer the pending questions by many of us: what is this all about? Is this process worth the effort and, if NUY lab is already elaborating the written conclusions of the initiative, do we need to bother to write the conclusions of it with any qualified and trustworthy candidate. If so, you should revise your judgement and buy the argument (no copyright on this!) that those who are willing to get involved are doing this for career purposes. Some have already got their career boosted at ICANN and a few other cool places, might feel that it would be smart for those without a comfortable seat to join the carrousel of vanities.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div>JC</div><div><br></div>
<br><div><div>Le 20 nov. 2014 à 12:43, Jeanette Hofmann a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hi all, I share Anja's skepticism but also Anriette's more principled stance on participating in new processes. We need to communicate with relevant actors in this field. Ultimately I think the pragmatic question is if we find a sufficient number of qualified and trustworthy candidates who are willing to contribute on our behalf in the NMI. Whether or not we have experienced people who want to participate is a valuable indicator in itself, don't you agree? (I don't buy the well-known argument that those who are willing to get involved do this for career purposes.) <br>Jeanette <br><br>On 20 November 2014 11:49:06 CET, Ian Peter <<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">Thanks Nnenna.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Yes, it is disappointing when we cannot tolerate differences of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">opinion.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Anriette expressed respect for the JNC position, as have many others.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">It would be good if this respect for differing opinions was<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">reciprocated.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The most substantial side effect for civil society discourse when<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">someones personal opinion is attacked rather than respected is that<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">people stop expressing themselves for fear of being attacked. It would<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">be good if we concentrated on issues and arguing points of view. And<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">some voices have already been silenced on this issue.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">We are not all going to agree on this one. But perhaps we can agree to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">respect differences of opinion. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Anriette has devoted the last 25 or so years of her life to building<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">APC as “ an international network and non profit organisation that<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">wants everyone to have access to a free and open internet to improve<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">our lives and create a more just world”. No, she is not abandoning the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">pursuit of social justice.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Ian Peter<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: Nnenna Nwakanma <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:26 PM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: michael gurstein <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Cc: Anriette Esterhuysen ; Anja Kovacs ; Governance ; Best Bits <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [bestbits] [governance] Whether to participate in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">NETmundial Initiative - RFC<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Wow! This "new reality" called Civil Society is beginning to amaze me<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the more. Because someone thinks "Let us give something a shot, it is<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">not perfect, but it is making an effort" then it is being construed as<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">abandoning the pursuit of social justice?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">If there was a human being who fought for social justice, it was Nelson<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Mandela. And it is him who said:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">"If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">enemy. Then he becomes your partner."<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I will rest my case for now<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Nnenna<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 10:13 AM, michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">So Anriette, I’m taking from your argument that because the NMI offers<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">some possibility, however remote for the advancement of human rights,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">you are completely abandoning perhaps irrevocably, the pursuit of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">social justice.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> M<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">[mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net] On Behalf Of Anriette<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Esterhuysen<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:18 PM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> To: Anja Kovacs; Nnenna Nwakanma<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Cc: Governance; Best Bits<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [bestbits] [governance] Whether to participate in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">NETmundial Initiative - RFC<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Dear all<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I have been fairly silent on this issue and APC is consulting our<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">members about it at present. We have been really busy in APC with<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">project meetings, evaluations, planning, and also the African School on<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">IG, so apologies for not participating.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Anja, thanks for asking for the view of Brazilian colleagues. I have<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">also asked people off list and thus far I get the sense that while<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">there are concerns, there is also a sense that it is worth giving the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">process a try.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I felt that the the letter that Ian and the CSCG wrote was excellent,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and I feel that having them in place has put us in a stronger position.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I also feel that JNC's decision to not be part of the process is<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">legitimate and clear.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I do see the pros and cons of participation a bit differently from how<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Ian had put them in an earlier message...perhaps not quite as 'black<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and white'.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">My feeling at this point is that some of the strong concerns we<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">expressed at the time of the NETmundial Initiative Launch in late<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">August have actually been addressed.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I don't particularly like the process... I would have liked more<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">transparency and consultation around the redesign of the process and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">its mechanisms.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">But I really do care about the NETmundial outcomes, and I believe we<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">should do our best to take it forward, to intergovernmental spaces, at<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">national level, and through the IGF. This might sound pretty naive to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">many but I still believe that the only sustainable path to inclusive <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">democratic multistakeholder internet policy and regulation is through<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">closer connections between multistakeholder and intergovernmental<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">processes and mechanisms.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> I am at the airport and about to board.. so should be fast.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">My view would be that civil society participates in the NMI with the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">following:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> - a set of indicators and criteriat that are important to us<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> - a limited timeframe <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">- agreed milestones including for a point at which we assess whether we<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">continue or not<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">My proposal would be try and make the process work, and to link it<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">closely to the IGF and for civil society e.g. at Best Bits meeting to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">get together prior to the 2015 IGF and then to assess whether our<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">particpation has had impact, whether we have been able to influence the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">process and whether it meets the criteria important to us.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">This is a risk of course. And we could legitimise a process that turns<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">out not to be worthy of it. But I think it is a risk worth taking, and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">we can always withdraw.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Not trying is a greater risk as it could result in the most<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">progressive, to date, agreement on principles that respect human rights<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">inclusive processes in internet governance simply fizzling out. I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">think that backtracking in that way on what we all achieved through the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">NETmundial would be a huge loss to changing how we think about, and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">implement, internet governance.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Anriette<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> On 19/11/2014 21:59, Anja Kovacs wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Dear all,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">A question. If any of the Brazilians on these lists could perhaps shed<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">some light on why their government has decided to support this<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">initiative, and how they see it, that could possibly be very helpful? I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">have had great respect for Brazil and its work in the past, and can't<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">help but wonder whether I'm missing something here.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">For the moment, however, knowing what I know, I am still not in favour<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">of civil society networks giving this their stamp of approval (though<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">as earlier, I also don't have an issue with individual organisations<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">who want to participate to continue doing so and report back to the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">wider community). A WEF-ICANN alliance, even if backed by the Brazilian<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">government, is just not the place I want to see emerge as a new power<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">centre in Internet governance - even less so as they have already given<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">themselves some fixed seats.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I've in particular been wondering what this selection and committee<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">means seeing that some of the initiatives the NMI would "foster"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">clearly are already on the way. For example, I (and I know many others<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">on this list too) have already been contacted by the Governance Lab at<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">NYU to give feedback on a proposed NETmundial Solutions map that would<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">be developed under the flag of the NMI. It's difficult not to feel like<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the only thing we and others would be doing is simply to rubberstamp<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">things that would happen anyway - but because we okay them, somehow the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">structure and the initiatives it gives birth to gain a legitimacy that<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">they would not have had without. An unwise use of our power, I would<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">say (that they would go ahead without us anyway is something that a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">representative from the WEF made clear enough to me in an informal<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">conversation in October. Some of the individual initiative, such as<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that map, might have value, but about the structure as a whole, I am<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">not so certain) <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I would feel far more comfortable if we would instead start exploring<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the constructive ways of going ahead with our own work suggested by<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Amelia and others. I would love to hear more about what they're<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">thinking, and how we could operationalize this ourselves and take it<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">forward.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Thanks and best,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Anja<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On 19 November 2014 01:12, Nnenna Nwakanma <<a href="mailto:nnenna75@gmail.com">nnenna75@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Dear Governance and Best Bits listers, and especially African Civil<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Society members here.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">My opinion is that Civil Society should participate. It is okay to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">table our "fears" and let NMI know that our participation may be<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">withdrawn if XYZ is not met.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I think it is fine for certain networks to say "No", but in Africa, I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">dont think we should miss out.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">NMI may also just make a public call for CS who wants to participate. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From the launch, I already saw that some CS persons were already very<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">interested in the NMI.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I see it is okay if one network or list or platform decides NOT to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">participate but we cannot ask others not to.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Me, I am in favour of Governance and BB lists nominating people. And at<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the same time, saying that it is important for African S to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">participate.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> All for now<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Nnenna<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 6:06 PM, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Journal <<a href="mailto:jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net">jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Jeremy,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Thanks for your email.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Looking after pathologies is certainly a noble cause, but as we both do<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">not belong to the medical corpus, maybe it would simply be wise to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">terminate this, and cool down a bit. Even though we are in real<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">politics.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Go after the arguments put on the table is probably of better effect<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and impact. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">What I wanted to say using quotes from an array of observers or<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">participants is that the initiative has more than a troubling set of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">definitions, expectations and leading to an overall confusion. It looks<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">more or less like "un chèque en blanc" to illegitimate grouping of a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">wealthy elite (the three players of NMI have deep pockets, and friends<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">with deeper pockets). I am not even trying to clarify the obvious<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">tactics behind all their gesture. I had an intermezzo as a consultant<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">for 10 years in my life, and can more than easily read the partition<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">behind all of that smoking screen. In the army, you always call some<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">troopers from the "génie" when you need a screen of smoke to cross a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">street, a bridge or a simple line. No, let's stay on what is at stake<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">such as<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">- why part of civil society in Busan accepted the fact that the US<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">refused to discuss mass surveillance?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">- why is the IGF not the best bet for civil society to keep maturing<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and growing?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">- why is encryption, I know EFF is working hard on this topic, <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">insufficiently at the center of the IG debate? Isn't encryption part of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the mass surveillance issue? So then why to please the US, in Sao<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Paulo, then in Busan by refusing to really go after it? Mass<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">surveillance has nothing to do with IG they told us.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">- why civil society not more vocal on the Google Tour against the EU<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">decision to protect personal data, considering rightly in my view, that<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">search engines are touching at personal data, beyond the simple links<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">they assembled in their result pages? This is a real good debate for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">CS.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">- why not to discuss the IETF and its roles in the IG? More important<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">than IANA for example? <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">- why CS seems deprived of imagination and innovative ideas when it<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">comes to create a new coordinating body/system, as the ICANN is saying<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the political aspects of IG is beyond its mandate? How can we help<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">ourselves to have these ideas popping out of CS minds? Looking at all<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the NGOs we are currently ranking, I am positively impressed with their<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">innovative abilities, much more powerful than classical corps. They<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">also create more "values".<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I am not naive, and have probably a few answers in mind. Nevertheless,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">CS should really act differently. The NMI story is relevant of the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">weakness that anyone can perceive among CS, and this is not to blame<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">JNC or anyone else. A leadership crisis wrote someone today.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Remember the preparation of Net Mundial? Did the ICANN handle CS in a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">satisfactory fashion? Haven't we seen the trailer? We had to twist<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">their arm every minute to get info, to get principles, to simply get it<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">not that bad. Why is it so difficult for the 'nice guys" not to go<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">directly after the right ideas, proposals and suggestions when<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">launching an open, honest, transparent debate? Instead they keep<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">creating distrust with their committees, high level panel, advisory<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">boards... Trust is critical. "Please energize me! should we all cry. We<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">are all losing. Terrifying, I would say.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">So why don't you and other leaders of CS decide to meet, have a debate<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and launch a true CS initiative, calling governments, citizens and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">corporations to join in a effort to rebalance the growing asymmetry we<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">live in since the mid-nineties? In the face of History, and our fellow<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">citizens, we are failing, because CS is not united. To do that you do<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">not need any WEF. You only need to trust, share, and confront the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">realities that are taking away our rights. This is what should be done,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">now, instead of wasting our time and little money to debate about the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">comfortable sofas of the WEF.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Somehow BB is a failure, as it has not delivered to its own mandate.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">JNC is not getting more isolated, it is growing and reaching more and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">more people. We should not care about that. We should care about having<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">a collective action that would oblige governments, corps and the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">current mandarins to take more progressive steps. Multistakeholderism<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">when it comes to convene and consult many participants is certainly<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">nice. This has often been done, long before we began to put in our<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">mouth the MS narrative. When it comes to make decisions at least on the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">public policy level, MS simply doesn't work. If the coders had to go<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">through MS to make decision, they would have simply gone nowhere. Only<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">a few guys fixing better than other few guys technical issues doesn't<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">equate a political model. It could work, but then it would lead to some<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">social disaster, a disruption that would unleash violence.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">JNC has no monopole of ethics, but because we are poor enough, our bias<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">is somehow limited. We are paid by no government, no corporation, no<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">barons. We are simple citizens, with a profound democratic concern (to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">avoid another asymmetric wars), and we are ready to go into rationales<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">as long as we are not characterized as psychotics or lunatics.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">There is no way that we can really have a strong impact as civil<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">society participants if we do not go after unity. And we all agree that<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">we should pay more respect to each others, as long as we do not have<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">hidden agenda, and gentle philanthropes putting their money in the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">debate. That would be fair.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> JC<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Le 18 nov. 2014 à 17:55, Jeremy Malcolm a écrit :<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Nov 18, 2014, at 1:49 AM, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Journal <<a href="mailto:jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net">jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I leave to Norbert co-convenor at JNC to answer your first email. On a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">personal note, I would appreciate you to elaborate about the "dumping<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">on civil society colleagues" you are referring to,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Within the next few days I’m going to write a separate blog post about<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">this at <a href="http://igfwatch.org">igfwatch.org</a>, because JNC’s pathologies are off-topic for this<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">list.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The WEF/ICANN/CGIbr project is not in lack of clarity. If I do listen<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to non JNC members:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">- Wall Street Journal reporter: "The NetMundial wants to spread<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Internet Governance more evenly across the developing world". (Ask Drew<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Fitzgerald about the source for that understanding of what is the WIB<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Initiative)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Which is roughly opposite to what JNC is saying.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">- McCarthy at The Register: "ISOC has blasted efforts from some<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">quarters to create a "UN Security Council”<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> A fatuous analogy, do you take it at face value?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">- Eileen Donahoe, ... Virgilio Almeida, ... Richard Samans, ... Fadi<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Chehadé: ...<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">None of these statements support the characterisation of the Initiative<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">as in your letter as “being ’the’ mechanism for global [Internet]<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">governance”.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Based on these official and public statement, I can only read JNC<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">statement as an interesting analysis and agree with JNC reluctance to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">participate or endorse such following-up (hijacking might be to blunt)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">of the NetMundial meeting. Nor the WEF, ICANN, or CGIbr are owners of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">what was stated ultimately in Sao Paulo, with all due reserves by<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">different participants.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I’ve also said, and maintain, that I regard the NETmundial Initiative<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(particularly the naming thereof) to be a hijacking of the NETmundial<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">meeting. On this much we agree.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">So instead of trying to grab a comfortable seat in that convoy ...<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">should for once, Civil Society ... acknowledges the serious concerns<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">seen in the making of, and in the diverse objectives presented by the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">WEF, ICANN and CGIbr.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Ian has taking a more neutral position, but for my part personally I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">certainly have<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(<a href="http://igfwatch.org/discussion-board/netmundial-initiative-takes-a-top-down-approach-to-implementing-the-netmundial-principles">http://igfwatch.org/discussion-board/netmundial-initiative-takes-a-top-down-approach-to-implementing-the-netmundial-principles</a>).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">What prompted my last email was not that JNC opposes the NETmundial<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Initiative, but that it has to do this by impugning the motives of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">other civil society groups and falsely attributing them with their<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">endorsement of the Initiative.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Also for the avoidance of doubt, nobody else endorsed my rant which was<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">sent in a personal capacity (though I have subsequently received, off<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">list, two emails in support, as well as one against).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> By the way, could you explain us (subscribers of the BestBits list):<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I do not have time to respond to the rest of your mail right now<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">because I am speaking at a conference today and will be boarding a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">flight a few hours later. But I write this brief response just because<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">you suggested in most recent mail that I was ignoring you - I’m not. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Anyway, others can respond to the balance of your questions rather than<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">me monopolising the conversation.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> -- <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Jeremy Malcolm<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Senior Global Policy Analyst<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Electronic Frontier Foundation<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="https://eff.org">https://eff.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org">jmalcolm@eff.org</a> <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Tel: 415.436.9333 ext 161<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> :: Defending Your Rights in the Digital World ::<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> ____________________________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits">http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> ____________________________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits">http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> -- <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Dr. Anja Kovacs<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> The Internet Democracy Project<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> +91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://www.internetdemocracy.in">www.internetdemocracy.in</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">____________________________________________________________You<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">received this message as a subscriber on the list: <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net.To">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net.To</a> unsubscribe or change your settings,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">visit: <a href="http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits">http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-- `````````````````````````````````anriette esterhuysenexecutive<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">directorassociation for progressive communicationspo box 29755,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">melville, 2109, south <a href="mailto:africaanriette@apc.orgwww.apc.org">africaanriette@apc.orgwww.apc.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">____________________________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits">http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits</a><br></blockquote><br>-- <br>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.<br><br>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, visit:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>For all other list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>