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apologies for cross posting<br>
<div class="moz-forward-container">regards<br>
Guru<br>
for those inclined to participate in the NMI (and according
legitimacy to a power group, and perhaps as Ian points as a
possible danger '<font style="size:+0;"><font
style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;"> a corporate takeover of internet
governance '</font></font>), I would point to
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.nationofchange.org/2014/11/17/sordid-tales-selfishness-super-rich">http://www.nationofchange.org/2014/11/17/sordid-tales-selfishness-super-rich</a>
and many similar articles on that site...<br>
<br>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Subject:
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<td>Re: [bestbits] Whether to participate in NETmundial
Initiative - RFC</td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
<td>Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:59:51 +0530</td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
<td>Guru <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Guru@ITforChange.net"><Guru@ITforChange.net></a></td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Reply-To:
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<td>Guru <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Guru@ITforChange.net"><Guru@ITforChange.net></a></td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
<td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a></td>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Often we seem to be saying that
participation is sufficient end in itself<br>
<br>
for what purpose<br>
for whose gain<br>
who do we represent in our participation<br>
who will lose by the participation<br>
who holds the power in the participation forum/ makes the rules
of the game<br>
how much can we fool ourselves about the power we have in the
forum <br>
<br>
These questions are extremely important to engage with. <br>
On the other hand, we can only wake up those who are sleeping
(and hopefully there are many who may wake up at this point - of
a neo-liberal attempt to capture of global governance), not
those who pretend to be.... <br>
<br>
regards<br>
Guru<br>
<br>
On Wednesday 19 November 2014 02:50 AM, Grace Githaiga wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:DUB111-W9973827089711FED9B9258B4880@phx.gbl"
type="cite">
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<div dir="ltr">I would go for CS to participate if the request
to conduct own nominations for representation is accepted. It
is easier to shape/influence processes if we are part of them.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Rgds</div>
<div>Grace<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="stopSpelling">From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org">jmalcolm@eff.org</a>; <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a><br>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:31:17 +1100<br>
Subject: Re: [bestbits] Whether to participate in
NETmundial Initiative - RFC<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000;">
<div>At this point of time discussions are going on in
a number of forums as regards participation, not
just here; and it would be helpful if the debate was
about whether to participate or not, not about who
said what when. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>As an aid to this, and perhaps to focus
discussion a little, here is a brief summary of some
of the arguments for and against that I have seen
advanced. Not a complete list, but perhaps this
might help some people to understand that other
people have perspectives that differ from their own.
i would urge people to add their own perspectives to
these so that an informed decision is made.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">FOR INVOLVEMENT</font></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">With ITU a governments
only forum and no real will to change, and IGF
as a forum with no power to make recommendations
or take decisions and again no will to change,
there is no credible venue to initiate action on
non technical issues or issues not within the
remit of Istar organisations These would include
surveillance issues, human rights issues, net
neutrality issues, to name a few.</font></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">The solid commitment to
NetMundial principles promised, if carried out
in practice, would create a credible and open
initiative </font></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">There is a need for<span
style=""> a representative </span>forum
capable of moving us forward on a range of
issues not covered by existing institutions</font></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">Participation is
strongly supported by some sections of civil
society</font></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">AGAINST INVOLVEMENT</font></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">The last thing we need
is a corporate takeover of internet governance
and this could become that</font></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">ISOC has withdrawn </font></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">Participation is
strongly opposed by some sections of civil
society</font></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">This initiative has a
track record of poor communication</font></font></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;">Ian Peter</p>
<div
style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;">
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma;">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5;">
<div style=""><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="jmalcolm@eff.org"
href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org">Jeremy
Malcolm</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 18, 2014
2:53 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">Best
Bits</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> [bestbits] Whether to
participate in NETmundial Initiative - RFC</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div
style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;">
<div>By now everyone will have read from previous
threads that ISOC and the Just Net Coalition (JNC)
have both decided not to participate in the
NETmundial Initiative, and you may have also have
read some false information that Best Bits and
other networks represented on the Civil Society
Coordination Group (CSCG) *have* decided to
participate. As Ian Peter's clarifying message
setting out the truth of the matter should have
made clear, that is *not* the case. All that has
happened is that the we have obtained as much
assurance as we can that *if* we decide to
participate, then the Secretariat (ICANN, WEF and
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://CGI.br"
target="_blank">CGI.br</a>) will accept our
self-nomination process rather than choosing civil
society representatives independently.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Now we turn to you, our communities, to provide
us with guidance about whether to proceed further
or not. Some views have already been expressed
pro and con. I have been (and remain) publicly
critical about the NETmundial Initiative, but on
the other hand the reasoning ISOC and JNC give for
boycotting it is rather specious, because they
characterise the initiative as being something
that it doesn't purport to be - ie. a single
central policy-making body for Internet
governance. This is an alarmist critique that
turns the NETmundial Initiative into an
exaggerated ITU-style bogeyman.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So whilst there is certainly room for
disagreement about whether we should bestow the
benefit of our participation on the Initiative (I
remain deeply conflicted about this), let's decide
on the basis of factual pro and con arguments
rather than oversimplifications about the 1%
taking over the Internet. Also note that a few
civil society representatives, including Human
Rights Watch, have endorsed it already and are
featured on the carousel message on the front page
of <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://netmundial.org" target="_blank">netmundial.org</a>.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So what do people think? If you haven't
already shared your views, please do so on this
thread, within the next few days if possible.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div
style="WORD-WRAP:break-word;WHITE-SPACE:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);LETTER-SPACING:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">
<div
style="WORD-WRAP:break-word;WHITE-SPACE:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);LETTER-SPACING:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">
<div>-- </div>
<div>Jeremy Malcolm</div>
<div>Senior Global Policy Analyst</div>
<div>Electronic Frontier Foundation</div>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://eff.org" target="_blank">https://eff.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org">jmalcolm@eff.org</a>
<div> </div>
<div>Tel: 415.436.9333 ext 161</div>
<div> </div>
<div>:: Defending Your Rights in the Digital
World ::</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
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