<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top"><html><div id='yahoo__compose_area' style="background-color:white; display:block; font-family:HelveticaNeue-Regular,Helvetica; font-size:15px;">Now that most of us agree on 'representation' not creating a new stakeholder seat for people with disabilities (as this is the actual discussion), what's next?<div><br></div><div>I don't think any change can occur now since the MAG is full and complete for this term but this discussion and the possible outcomes can help us better tackle other groups or communities when it is about nominating members.</div><div><br></div><div>My question is what can we have as outcome of this discussion? If we all can come out with a paragraph summarising our points and the way forward on how we think we can make sure this happens in the future, this will be helpful.</div><div><br></div><div>My best regards,</div><div>A<br><br>------------------<br>Arsene
Tungali,<br>Executive Director, Rudi International<br><a href="http://www.rudiinternational.org" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="link" x-apple-data-detectors-result="0">www.rudiinternational.org</a><br><br>Founder, Mabingwa Forum<br><a href="http://www.mabingwa-forum.com" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="link" x-apple-data-detectors-result="1">www.mabingwa-forum.com</a><br>Phone:<a href="tel:+243993810967" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="2">+243993810967</a><br><br>ICANN Fellow | ISOC Member | Child Online Protection Advocate | Youth Leader | Internet Governance.<br>Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC)<br><br>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</div></div><div id='yahoo__original_message' class='yQTDBase'><br><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex; ">At 18 nov. 2014 19:44:48, Lorena
Jaume-Palasi<'<a href="mailto:lorena@collaboratory.de" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="link" x-apple-data-detectors-result="4">lorena@collaboratory.de</a>'> wrote:<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Dear all,<br></div>as far as I can recall, it was never the talk of creating new stakeholders, but adding new criteria. It was about acknowledging that some positions can only be represented by people with certain experiences/profiles. The internet user is not only white and male and 30 years old enjoying all of his five senses and health. If we want an open, accessible internet for all, we need to include people in the process with diverse experiences -and not only as participants- but also in more symbolic positions and make sure that those positions structurally represent the variety of users and of a stakeholder. <br></div>The mentioned criteria (gender, geography, age, dissabilities, etc) are part of what constructs an "identity"
but do not construct "identity" per se. So it is not about creating an specific chair for hundreds of identities. It is about identifying fair criteria that depict the constant diversity of societies at a regional, national and international level.<br></div>Kind regards,<br>Lorena<br><div><div><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-11-18 17:12 GMT+01:00 Jac sm Kee <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jac@apcwomen.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">jac@apcwomen.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br><br/>Hash: SHA1<br><br/><br><br/>Hello everyone,<br><br/><br><br/>Coming in a little late into the discussion. But this reminds me of<br><br/>the brilliant discussion that we had at the 2013 IGF, where Jeannette<br><br/>spoke of "unblackboxing" multistakeholderism at the GISWatch
women's<br><br/>rights edition launch. Recognising that within each stakeholder groups<br><br/>that there are also differences in terms of experiences, needs,<br><br/>priorities and concerns because of inequality and/or discrimination on<br><br/>the basis of social identities or standing. So things like locale,<br><br/>gender, sexualities, disabilities, age, economic power etc, would play<br><br/>a part. The question is how to hold this effectively within a<br><br/>structure of representation that is necessarily limited without<br><br/>fragmenting into endless splits. So not on the basis of 'identity' per<br><br/>se (which can end up fixing you, and also identity is multiple and<br><br/>fluid most times - like youth), but maybe on the basis of work or<br><br/>issues that can be forwarded. And I also agree with Arsene's excellent<br><br/>point that this should be something that is also considered not just<br><br/>by CS, but govt, private sector,
technical community etc.<br><br/><br><br/>Saying that, I am very happy to support an explicit inclusion of<br><br/>disability as a criteria for consideration!<br><br/><br><br/>Best,<br><br/>jac<br><br/><br><br/><br><br/>On 18/11/2014 03:34, Arsene TUNGALI wrote:<br><br/>> Dear colleagues,<br><br/>><br><br/>> Thanks Everyone for your thoughtful reactions regarding this<br><br/>> sensitive subject, people with disabilities.<br><br/>><br><br/>> I strongly agree with the idea for inclusion of this particular<br><br/>> stakeholder in the MAG but we may need to find a better approach<br><br/>> while advocating for this.<br><br/>><br><br/>> My point was that, i don't think we need to 'create' another stake<br><br/>> that we may call, i don't know, People with Disabilities or<br><br/>> Disabled People and have it stand alongside those major stakeholder<br><br/>> groups such as Gov, Civil Society, Business, Academic, etc.<br><br/>><br><br/>> I believe these are
already inclusive at a certain rate. the point<br><br/>> here for me would be to make them more inclusive by making sure for<br><br/>> extance, people with disabilities are being chosen to be part of<br><br/>> one of them. That's what i see we may need to advocate for:<br><br/>> appointing qualitative candidancies with more attention from the<br><br/>> Gov sector or any other sector.<br><br/>><br><br/>> I always apreciate how my friend and mentor Tracy Hackshaw (sorry<br><br/>> for copying you in here again if you are already on these lists)<br><br/>> is advocating for Small Islands trying by any means to make sure<br><br/>> these countries are represented. I don't think he is advocating for<br><br/>> a particular 'stake' for this group but for them to be represented<br><br/>> (please correct me if i am wrong).<br><br/>><br><br/>> Also, kudos to Mrs Judy for her work! I have been following and<br><br/>> admire her passion and work in the IGF and even in
the Diplo<br><br/>> community.<br><br/>><br><br/>> In my country, there is a bill that sets a certain percentage of<br><br/>> people with disabilities to be included in the government and other<br><br/>> state institutions. Though this has never been implemented properly<br><br/>> but this can be a good start moving forward.<br><br/>><br><br/>> Sorry for being long but to be brief, my point is that let's make<br><br/>> a proposal to the MAG that they may need to make sure people with<br><br/>> disabilities are represented (to consider QUALITATIVE candidancies<br><br/>> for the MAG with more attention).<br><br/>><br><br/>> Would love to hear your thoughts on this Remmy.<br><br/><span class="">><br><br/>> Regards, A ------------------ Arsene Tungali, Executive Director,<br><br/>> Rudi International <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.rudiinternational.org">www.rudiinternational.org</a><br><br/></span>> <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.rudiinternational.org">http://www.rudiinternational.org</a>><br><br/>><br><br/>> Founder, Mabingwa Forum <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.mabingwa-forum.com">www.mabingwa-forum.com</a><br><br/>> <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.mabingwa-forum.com">http://www.mabingwa-forum.com</a>> Phone:<a rel="nofollow"><a href="tel:+243993810967" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="12">+243993810967</a></a><br><br/>> <tel:<a rel="nofollow"><a href="tel:+243993810967" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="13">+243993810967</a></a>><br><br/><span class="">><br><br/>> ICANN Fellow | ISOC Member | Child Online Protection Advocate |<br><br/>> Youth Leader | Internet Governance. Democratic Republic of Congo<br><br/>> (DRC)<br><br/>><br><br/>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPhone<br><br/>><br><br/></span>> At 17 nov. 2014 20:32:40, Remmy Nweke<'<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:remmyn@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">remmyn@gmail.com</a><br><br/>> <mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:remmyn@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">remmyn@gmail.com</a>>'> wrote: Thanks Deirdre for the<br><br/><span class="">> explanation,<br><br/>><br><br/>> However, no matter what other opinion, we must be conscious of the<br><br/>> moment and relate it to the reality of things.<br><br/>><br><br/>> I am convinced that Arsene "alert" is not unfounded but a note for<br><br/>> careful decision making, so no threat meant as far as I can<br><br/>> deduce.<br><br/>><br><br/>> Therefore, I would like to submit that there is nothing,<br><br/>> absolutely nothing wrong in us advocating inclusion of disability<br><br/>> colleagues in the MAG in real sense of it, after all we say its a<br><br/>> multi-stakeholder,
yet the question here remain whether we have<br><br/>> made the multi-stakeholderism a reality or are we still guessing<br><br/>> with semantics?<br><br/>><br><br/>> Posterity will be on our side for seeing enough reasons to<br><br/>> accommodate this request, after all, for instance, those of us who<br><br/>> have worked closely with Judy Okite, know her capability when it<br><br/>> comes to work despite all odds. I am sure those Ginger Prague<br><br/>> mentioned earlier have been as hardworking as Judy among our pears<br><br/>> for them to merit such mentions and recognition.<br><br/>><br><br/>> So, our decision must reflect the reality of things with purpose<br><br/>> driven. If there are other request for inclusion as feared by<br><br/>> Arsene, then when we get to the bridge, let us cross it, but for<br><br/>> now. This is proposal is imperative.<br><br/>><br><br/>> Goodevening from Lagos Remmy<br><br/>><br><br/>> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 6:49 PM,
Deirdre Williams<br><br/></span><span class="">> <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:williams.deirdre@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">williams.deirdre@gmail.com</a> <javascript:return>> wrote:<br><br/>><br><br/>> Bad choice of words perhaps :-( The concerns I have heard seem to<br><br/>> focus on the possibility that if one group is given special status<br><br/>> as regards representation then several other groups may ask for the<br><br/>> same facility. If you look back in this thread Arsene on 14th was<br><br/>> the first person to express this concern. I think I used<br><br/>> "dangerous" (and please note the "...") because the stability of<br><br/>> the MAG is very important. Therefore it is essential that the<br><br/>> justification for the request should be quite clear and offer no<br><br/>> threat to that stability.<br><br/>><br><br/>> On 17 November 2014 13:32, Remmy Nweke <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:remmyn@gmail.com"
target="_blank" href="javascript:return">remmyn@gmail.com</a><br><br/></span><span class="">> <javascript:return>> wrote:<br><br/>><br><br/>> Dear Deirdre, So far your submissions have been engaging and<br><br/>> interesting, but I did not understand the aspect of "dangerous"<br><br/>> precedent.<br><br/>><br><br/>> Is it that our support for recognition of persons with disabilities<br><br/>> in the MAG is a dangerous step or that it would amount to that in<br><br/>> the future? If yes, why?<br><br/>><br><br/>> We must have at the back of our mind that issues must be treated on<br><br/>> merit, of course, I think this subject herein is merited.<br><br/>><br><br/>> However, I would appreciate more light/explanation before I can ask<br><br/>> further questions. Thanks Remmy<br><br/>><br><br/>> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 6:09 PM, Deirdre Williams<br><br/></span><span class="">> <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:williams.deirdre@gmail.com" target="_blank"
href="javascript:return">williams.deirdre@gmail.com</a> <javascript:return>> wrote:<br><br/>><br><br/>> My thought is "go for it". However I think it will be necessary to<br><br/>> establish that "people with disabilities" are a stakeholder group,<br><br/>> rather than an issue. Ginger and I spent an hour discussing that<br><br/>> last night without reaching any resolution. This conversation began<br><br/>> because of Lorena's suggestion to institutionalise the inclusion of<br><br/>> someone representative of "the youth" as happened fortuitously this<br><br/>> year with the selection of Bianca for the MAG. There are other<br><br/>> interests which might also feel the desirability of being given an<br><br/>> "own representative". Can we present a strong enough argument to<br><br/>> persuade the MAG in its wisdom to support the creation of a<br><br/>> somewhat "dangerous" precedent?<br><br/>><br><br/>> On 17 November 2014 11:07, Judy Okite <<a
rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:judyokite@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">judyokite@gmail.com</a><br><br/></span><span class="">> <javascript:return>> wrote:<br><br/>><br><br/>> Thank you All,<br><br/>><br><br/>> for your contributions and support, I highly appreciate it!<br><br/>><br><br/>> Indeed to have the persons with disabilities voices and concerns<br><br/>> raised in these forums is important, but the utmost importance is<br><br/>> to have them involved, be part of the process, be part of the<br><br/>> team.<br><br/>><br><br/>> Could we have this in signatures and forward it to the secretariat<br><br/>> to have this discussed as part of AOB in the December meeting?<br><br/>><br><br/>> De, whats your thought?<br><br/>><br><br/>> Kind Regards,<br><br/>><br><br/>><br><br/></span>> /'Chance Favors the prepared mind'///-Louis Pasteur<br><br/><span class="">><br><br/>><br><br/>><br><br/>> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Remmy Nweke
<<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:remmyn@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">remmyn@gmail.com</a><br><br/></span><span class="">> <javascript:return>> wrote:<br><br/>><br><br/>> Let me add my voice to Deidre's narration. Yes we often forget<br><br/>> those with disabilities and I think now we are reminded of it,<br><br/>> thus imperative we all support the call for inclusion. May be pass<br><br/>> that as a resolution to make or have a rep from them at part of MAG<br><br/>> process. Thus should also apply to member nations too that way we<br><br/>> will no longer forget. Nice day all. Remmy Nweke @ITRealms A member<br><br/>> of DigitalSENSE<br><br/>><br><br/>> Sent from my Windows Phone<br><br/></span>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br/>><br><br/>><br><br/>From: Deirdre Williams <javascript:return><br><br/>> Sent: 14/11/2014 15:01 To: Internet Governance <javascript:return><br><br/><span
class="">> Subject: [governance] People with disabilities<br><br/>><br><br/>> Let me add to Lorena's suggestion of a youth category, (made on the<br><br/>> Bestbits list this morning) the need to have a constant voice for<br><br/>> people with disabilities. Judy Okite has provided this for the last<br><br/>> few years, but she has finished her term of appointment. She made<br><br/>> this suggestion herself at the last MAG meeting in Istanbul. Since<br><br/>> one billion people around the world suffer from some disability,<br><br/>> and the Internet can offer considerable relief for them, they are<br><br/>> the holders of a very significant "stake". Sadly it is easy to<br><br/>> forget if one does not suffer from a disability oneself, which is<br><br/>> why it is so important to have a dedicated voice for these<br><br/>> stakeholders in all such groups. Deirdre<br><br/>><br><br/>> -- “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but
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