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<p style="margin: 0 0 1em 0; color: black;">Does that mean 'people who step
up to do real work'? That would be stakeholders. </p>
<p style="margin: 0 0 1em 0; color: black;">There are other steakholders
who don't have any sweat or other equity invested in a process but still
demand a stake.. <br>
</p>
</div>
<div style="color: black;">
<p
style="color: black; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; margin: 10pt 0;">On
24 October 2014 9:51:53 am "michael gurstein"
<gurstein@gmail.com> wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0 0 0 0.75ex; border-left: 1px solid #808080; padding-left: 0.75ex;"><div
class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks
for this Sivasubramanian…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p
class=MsoNormal><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Can
I/we take this i.e. that MSism (governance by self-appointed elites) is the
“next evolutionary stage of democracy” is a generally agreed upon position
among the proponents of MSism?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p
class=MsoNormal><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p
class=MsoNormal><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>M<o:p></o:p></span></p><p
class=MsoNormal><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p
class=MsoNormal><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Sivasubramanian
M [mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 24, 2014
6:12 AM<br><b>To:</b> michael gurstein<br><b>Cc:</b> Avri Doria; Bits
bestbits@lists.bestbits.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bestbits]
Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU Plenipot joint
recommendations<o:p></o:p></span></p><p
class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span
style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>Dear Michael
Gurstein,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span
style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p
class=MsoNormal><span
style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>The definitions
are reconciled when the multistakeholder model is viewed as the next phase
of evolution of Democracy, and in this phase, it is in its initial stages
of evolution with some aspects being
defined.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span
style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p
class=MsoNormal><span
style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>Sivasubramanian
M<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br
clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a
href="https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy"
target="_blank">Sivasubramanian M</a><o:p></o:p></p><div><p
class=MsoNormal>+1 (213) 300 8293 Oct 11-19
2014<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal
style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p
class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Oct
23, 2014 at 12:57 PM, michael gurstein <<a
href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You
can of course a la the Lewis Carroll’s the Queen of Hearts define anything
you like as whatever you like but I’m very curious how your reconcile the
current practice of MSism with this definition of Participatory Democracy
(from Wikipedia</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><b>Participatory
democracy</b> is a process emphasizing the broad <a
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participation_%28decision_making%29"
target="_blank" title="Participation (decision making)">participation</a>
of constituents in the direction and operation of political systems.
Etymological roots of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy"
target="_blank" title=Democracy>democracy</a> (Greek <i><a
href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/demos" target="_blank"
title="wikt:demos">demos</a></i> and <i><a
href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%AC%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82"
target="_blank" title="wikt:κράτος">kratos</a></i>) imply that the people
are in power and thus that all democracies are participatory.
…<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Participatory
democracy strives to create opportunities for all members of a population
to make meaningful contributions to decision-making, and seeks to broaden
the range of people who have access to such opportunities.<o:p></o:p></p><p
class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>It seems to me
that decision making a la MSism by self-appointed elites (corporates, their
governmental allies and whomever else they choose to participate) hardly
qualifies as “creat(ing) opportunities for all members of a population to
make meaningful contributions to decision-making”.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p
class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>But maybe I’m
missing something.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>M</span><o:p></o:p></p><p
class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p
class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div
style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in
0in'><p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net"
target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net"
target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Avri Doria<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 23, 2014 12:34
PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[bestbits] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU Plenipot joint
recommendations</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p
class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p
class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On 23-Oct-14
08:20, michael gurstein wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><blockquote
style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre> If you take a look at my
blog both the current post and several of the earlier ones you will see my
argument that MSism is being presented as a form of global governance in
competition with democratic governance.<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p
class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br><br>I
haven't read your blog. But I always define multistakeholderism
(m17m) as a form of participatory democracy that builds on the
representative democracy that some few nations have put into effect as well
as the bottom-up organic coming together of stakeholders, who sometime
aggregate into stakeholder groups, on a particular theme. I define it
as a form of democracy somewhere between basic representative democracy and
full direct democracy.<br><br>I think many other accept some form of the
m17m is a form of participatory democracy definition. So the frames
of reference are really quite
different.<br><br>avri<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p
class=MsoNormal><br>____________________________________________________________<br>You
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class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></blockquote>
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