<div dir="ltr"><div> "<span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,255)"><i>The key reference is the working definition of Internet Governance from
the Tunis Agenda, which has stated that "decision making procedures"
with regard to Internet Governance has to be "shared" among all
stakeholders. This means that there is no "Hierarchie Structure" among
the stakeholders but a "Network Structure" where stakeholders operate in
their respective roles on equal footing and has to work hand in <br>Hand
towards rough consensus and without veto rights</i></span>".<br><br></div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style></span></span><span id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span class="">I fully support</span> <span class="">this </span></span><span id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span class=""><span id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span class="">Wolfgang</span></span> argument</span> <span class="">.</span> <span class="">In my</span> <span class="">opinion,</span> </span><span id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span class="">I think</span> <span class="">the rules</span> <span class="">of the games have</span> <span class="">already been</span> <span class="">defined</span> <span class="">since 2003 and</span> <span class="">2005, more</span> <span class="">specifically</span><span>,</span> <span class="">in paragraph 72 of</span> <span class="">the Tunis Agenda</span><span>.</span> </span><span id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span></span> <br><span class="">Should we still</span> <span class="">questioning</span> <span class="">a</span> <span class="">document</span> <span class="">which was approved</span> <span class="">by all</span> <span class="">members of the United</span> <span class="">Nations</span><span>?</span> <br><span class=""></span></span><span id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span class=""><span id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span class="">I realize that this</span> <span class="">is also</span> <span class="">from</span> <span class="">this period that the</span> <span class="">multi-stakeholder</span> <span class="">approach</span> <span class="">arose.</span> </span></span><span class="">.</span> <br><span class="">Currently our</span> <span class="">platforms</span> <span class="">or</span> <span class="">discussion networks</span> <span class="">have</span> <span class="">adopted</span> <span class="">this approach</span> <span class="">even if</span> <span class="">the part of governments</span> <span class="">and private</span> <span class="">sectors, it</span> <span class="">is not yet</span> <span class="">so</span> <span class="">accepted.</span> <br><span class="">In the field of</span> <span class="">digital technology,</span> <span class="">it is an inescapable</span> <span class="">approach.</span></span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-10-23 13:03 GMT+02:00 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de" target="_blank">wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">The Intergovernmental organizations and the related intergovernmental treaty system (as the ITU, WIPO, WTO, UNESCO etc.) will continue to play a specific role but it is now embedded in a multistakeholder environment. The key reference is the working definition of Internet Governance from the Tunis Agenda, which has stated that "decision making procedures" with regard to Internet Governance has to be "shared" among all stakeholders. This means that there is no "Hierarchie Structure" among the stakeholders but a "Network Structure" where stakeholders operate in their respective roles on equal footing and has to work hand in Hand towards rough consensus and without veto rights. This does not exclude that the individual stakeholder groups make their own arrangements among themselves which can include also arrangements among governments in form of treaties under international law.<br>
<br>
<br>
wolfgang<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br>
Von: <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> im Auftrag von Anriette Esterhuysen<br>
Gesendet: Do 23.10.2014 12:41<br>
An: <a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>; michael gurstein; 'Milton L Mueller'<br>
<span class="">Cc: <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>; 'IRP'; <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; <a href="mailto:forum@justnetcoalition.org">forum@justnetcoalition.org</a><br>
</span>Betreff: [governance] Re: [IRPCoalition] [JNC - Forum] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITUPlenipot joint recommendations<br>
<span class=""><br>
Surely we need both multi stakeholder and intergovernmental processes? They are not mutually exclusive in my view and increasing transparency, inclusion and accountability is needed for both. <br>
<br>
Anriette<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from Samsung Mobile<br>
<br>
</span><div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Richard Hill <<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>> </div><div>Date:23/10/2014 11:37 (GMT+02:00) </div><div>To: michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>>,'Milton L Mueller' <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>> </div><div>Cc: <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>,'IRP' <<a href="mailto:Irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">Irp@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>>,<a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>,<a href="mailto:forum@justnetcoalition.org">forum@justnetcoalition.org</a> </div><div>Subject: Re: [IRPCoalition] [JNC - Forum] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on<br>
period for ITUPlenipot joint recommendations </div><div><br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"></div>Milton says:<br>
<br>
"I think private sector-based MS institutions are doing a better job of that<br>
than anything that will come out of the UN and its clientelist co-optation<br>
of civil society and development groups. And some of these institutions work<br>
better and preserve the freedom and autonomy of communications better<br>
precisely because they are _not_ democratic in the old sense of pure<br>
majority rule."<br>
<br>
In contrast, I think that it might be worth trying the good old<br>
intergovernmental system, despite its defects, given that the "private<br>
sector-based MS institutions" have failed to solve the urgent issues<br>
identified by the Working Group on Internet Governance back in 2004: the<br>
asymmetric role of the US government, the relatively high cost of Internet<br>
connectivity in developing countries, and the lack of security. Sorry to be<br>
repetitive, but please see:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.apig.ch/WSIS%20APIG%20statement.doc" target="_blank">http://www.apig.ch/WSIS%20APIG%20statement.doc</a><br>
<br>
and<br>
<br>
<a href="http://newsclick.in/international/review-schiller-dan-2014-digital-depress
ion-information-technology-and-economic-crisis" target="_blank">http://newsclick.in/international/review-schiller-dan-2014-digital-depress<br>
ion-information-technology-and-economic-crisis</a><br>
<br>
Further, "majority rule" is an element of democracy, but it is not the only<br>
element. On the contrary, respect for human rights is a fundamental<br>
element, and it is that element, together with the rule of law (which<br>
includes due process), that protects minorities from undue oppression by<br>
majorities.<br>
<br>
Until we create a full fledged "Internet nation", we are stuck with the<br>
nations that we have, and we should use their good features while striving<br>
to correct their bad features.<br>
<br>
Calling for an abrogation of state involvement in the absence of<br>
alternatives that ensure democracy, and social and economic justice, is not<br>
something that I can support.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Richard<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Forum [mailto:<a href="mailto:forum-bounces@justnetcoalition.org">forum-bounces@justnetcoalition.org</a>]On Behalf Of michael<br>
gurstein<br>
Sent: mercredi, 22. octobre 2014 22:35<br>
To: 'Milton L Mueller'<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>; 'IRP'; <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;<br>
<a href="mailto:forum@justnetcoalition.org">forum@justnetcoalition.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [JNC - Forum] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for<br>
ITUPlenipot joint recommendations<br>
<br>
<br>
Actually Milton, the term is "We the Peoples". recognizing the diversity and<br>
multiplicity of the peoples of the world and presumably their various forms<br>
of governance and aspirations towards efficacy and empowerment including<br>
through their representative governance structures most of which at least<br>
nominally have presented themselves as "democracies".<br>
<br>
True that many states haven't lived up to those early aspirations, (some of<br>
us even remember when the US could, with a straight face present itself as a<br>
fully functioning model democracy) but this is no reason to deny the<br>
legitimacy of those aspirations and instead out of what--cynicism, fatigue,<br>
self-interest, racism, elitism-whatever--opt for governance through<br>
corporate autocracy errr. a multi-stakeholderism dominated by Western,<br>
technocratic, primarily male, overwhelmingly white elites.<br>
<br>
But at least I give you credit for being clear and straightforward in opting<br>
for this form of governance by "private sector-based MS institutions", would<br>
that others in CS were as forthright in admitting where their loyalties<br>
lie..<br>
<br>
M<br>
<br>
From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 1:04 PM<br>
To: 'michael gurstein'<br>
Cc: '<a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>'; 'IRP'; '<a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>'<br>
Subject: RE: Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU Plenipot joint<br>
recommendations<br>
<br>
The UN has never been about "we the people." It has always been about "we<br>
the states." With nearly half the states in it being nondemocratic, and<br>
international law treating any and all states as sovereign individuals with<br>
equal rights, "democracy" in the UN system means one government, one vote.<br>
<br>
Not 'democratic' in the good sense at all. We can agree on this, however:<br>
<br>
we should find alternative and effective ways of manifesting [snip]<br>
democratic impulses in this new era and with new mechanisms and processes.<br>
<br>
But personally I think private sector-based MS institutions are doing a<br>
better job of that than anything that will come out of the UN and its<br>
clientelist co-optation of civil society and development groups. And some of<br>
these institutions work better and preserve the freedom and autonomy of<br>
communications better precisely because they are _not_ democratic in the old<br>
sense of pure majority rule.<br>
<br>
Milton L. Mueller<br>
Laura J. and L. Douglas Meredith Professor<br>
Syracuse University School of Information Studies<br>
<a href="http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/mueller/Home.html" target="_blank">http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/mueller/Home.html</a><br>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
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