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    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Tuesday 21 October 2014 09:28 PM,
      Anne Jellema wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAFwCmbGfgmSut71hC9YUYqDn=7mB86_25=-9BMRFungVGkQxTQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Thank you, Parminder for the thoughtful criticisms.
        We're aware that different parts of civil society have
        well-founded reasons for holding different opinions on the role
        of the ITU, and we fully respect these. I was very pleased to
        see that JustNet has expressed its point of view in its own
        proposals for the Plenipot, which I found interesting and
        valuable. 
        <div><br>
          <div>
            <div>In that spirit, I would like to respond to a couple of
              your criticisms of our statement that I think don't
              reflect an entirely accurate reading of its content: </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>- I think your claim that we are advocating unregulated
              free markets is unfair, since we state twice: "Each
              country should retain individual authority to regulate IP
              interconnection rates where necessary and advisable in
              order to ensure universal service and promote robust
              competition." The drafters include organisations that have
              been on the forefront of the fight for stronger net
              neutrality regulation at national and regional (EU) level.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div>- I don't agree that our statement fails to identify
                who should take responsibility for resolving key IG
                challenges; proposes the "withdrawal of all internet
                policy related agenda from the global governance stage";
                or fails to acknowledge any important role for the ITU.
                We repeatedly stress the need for coordination and
                collaboration among UN agencies (including the ITU) and
                multistakeholder bodies; and refer several times to what
                we think are the ITU's critical roles in addressing the
                huge challenges ahead. </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div>That said, we agree that the reference to "ITU mission
              creep" was poorly judged, and the entire para should be
              deleted as proposed by Jeanette. </div>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAFwCmbGfgmSut71hC9YUYqDn=7mB86_25=-9BMRFungVGkQxTQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>
          <div>I sincerely hope that a respectful and informed exchange
            of views can continue among CSOs, along with the equally
            important effort to find the common ground between differing
            positions.  <br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Dear Anne<br>
    <br>
    Thanks for your response and engagement. I mean to further engage 
    on this discussion. But my present email will only make one point,
    about the mutual respectfulness  of any discussion, which your email
    mentions. I am not saying that you meant it in that manner, but I do
    often find a hyper sensitivity to political criticism in these
    circles and personalisation of it, here I mean personalisation in
    receiving political criticism. We must recognise that civil society
    work is a work of strong conviction and submersion in that
    conviction... People have a vision of the world they'd like to see,
    and there are forces that block the realisation of that vision.
    Obviously therefore, for anyone who really cares, the feelings
    involved are strong... And I mean, on all sides of what could become
    a political divide. And such a political divide is as possible, even
    likely, in the civil society space, as in the conventional political
    space. However, for instance in India, which has a rather high level
    of professional in traditional political space, at least at the
    national level, political personalities are able to be scathing and
    unsparing in terms of their political positions and counter
    positions without it being taken as being inappropriately uncivil or
    any such thing.  <br>
    <br>
    I probably should  not be so defensive, but I say all this because
    many people here are simply too touchy. (I know that you come from a
    core political civil society background, and so I an really not
    talking about you.) I also say it because I and people that I work
    with feel that the present position that is being proposed on the
    BestBits platform a major political statement that we find extremely
    problematic and something that sets a solid tone for a neoliberal
    paradigm for the emerging Internet-mediated society. In that respect
    its impact on the world, especially in terms of democracy, equity
    and social justice is going to be far reaching, and these are the
    corner stone canons of our work.  And therefore we will strongly
    contest it, with all means at our disposal. <br>
    <br>
    I will separately respond to some substantive points in your above
    email. <br>
    <br>
    best regards<br>
    parminder <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAFwCmbGfgmSut71hC9YUYqDn=7mB86_25=-9BMRFungVGkQxTQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Best</div>
          <div>Anne</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 12:49 PM,
          Richard Hill <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
              <div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">I fully
                    agree with Parminder's analysis and strongly support
                    his comments.</font></span></div>
              <div><span></span> </div>
              <div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Best,</font></span></div>
              <div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Richard</font></span></div>
              <div>
                <div class="h5">
                  <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#0000ff 2px
                    solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px">
                    <div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma">-----Original
                        Message-----<br>
                        <b>From:</b> Forum [mailto:<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:forum-bounces@justnetcoalition.org"
                          target="_blank">forum-bounces@justnetcoalition.org</a>]<b>On
                          Behalf Of </b>parminder<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> mardi, 21. octobre 2014 12:47<br>
                        <b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
                          target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>;
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
                          target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:forum@justnetcoalition.org"
                          target="_blank">forum@justnetcoalition.org</a>;
                        IRP<br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: [JNC - Forum] [bestbits]
                        Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU
                        Plenipot joint recommendations<br>
                        <br>
                      </font></div>
                    <br>
                    <font face="Verdana">I have not had the chance to go
                      into the long statement in detail. However, what I
                      see as its main refrain is bothersome. It says yes
                      there are many very important global Internet
                      policy issues, and then says that the ITU should
                      not take them up, but tells us nothing about who
                      should take them up. This becomes a recipe for, or
                      at least, towards a political governance free
                      world, the kind one nowadays read about frequently
                      in the documents of the World Economic Forum (read
                      for instance its Global Redesign Initiative). <br>
                      <br>
                      I am agnostic about whether ITU takes up at least
                      some important Internet policy issues at the
                      global level or some other democratic global body
                      takes them up. However, it is not tenable that
                      they be just left hanging out there, which only
                      allows those who have the greatest default power
                      on the Internet, mostly the </font><font
                      face="Verdana">US based </font><font
                      face="Verdana">economic and political
                      establishment, to carry on consolidating their
                      power. This statement for me is simply an
                      expression of support for the Internet power
                      status quo, and therefore I strongly oppose it.<br>
                      <br>
                      To take a few examples (a more detailed critique
                      will follow);<br>
                      <br>
                      Perhaps the most disturbing part of the statement,
                      from developing countries viewpoint, is tha which
                      sanctifies unregulated global market models for
                      global Internet inter-connectivity.... This is a
                      major reversal from the stand of all developing
                      countries and all progressive civil society at the
                      WSIS, where unfair global interconnection regimes
                      was one of the main 'development issues'. This
                      statement seems to close that issue by declaring
                      that such things be best left to free markets,
                      with no regulatory framework, or even a normative/
                      principles framework. In any case, it is not clear
                      how even working on the interconnection issue, an
                      express mandate for ITU from the WSIS is a
                      'mission creep' for the ITU. It appears that there
                      is not one thing that ITU can do in 2014 which
                      will not be called a mission creep. In the
                      circumstances one thinks that the proponents of
                      the statement should be bold and just ask for the
                      closing down of the ITU. <br>
                      <br>
                      Further, the statement says that the ITU should
                      not work towards a treaty on cyber- security, an
                      issue that has shaken the world post Snowden. 
                      Just today I read an interview with Snowden's
                      colleague Laura Poitras about how  little has
                      really changed on the ground as far as mass
                      surveillance by the five eyes is concerned. What
                      other than a treaty that reigns in the conduct of
                      the states in this regard can be a solution? Or
                      have we simply given up and are ready to allow the
                      powerful to do what they may? Alternatively, is
                      there any other solution being thought of? Civil
                      society must answer these questions. <br>
                      <br>
                      The statement seems to suggest that the first
                      committee of the UN Gen Assembly should keep doing
                      the work on cyber security. That is quite
                      surprising becuase by all means, the first
                      committee’s work is much less participative (of
                      other stakeholders) than even of the ITU. So, what
                      is the rationale here, other than just to say ITU
                      should not do it (we will see when we have to stop
                      even the first committee from doing it, but right
                      now the imperative is.... ). I am fine with the
                      first committee doing it, but remember that any
                      effort towards a cyber security treaty will
                      require the expertise of ITU which is the agency
                      that has hitherto dealt with this issue. Such an
                      simply obstructionist attitude to global
                      governance bespeaks of a movement towards a very
                      unequal, unfair and unjust world. Progressive
                      civil society must take note rather than blindly
                      signing on this rather dangerous statement.  <br>
                      <br>
                      The statement says, we should not begin working on
                      a cyber security treaty because there is no
                      consensus on basic concepts and principles in the
                      area.... Is there a greater consensus on the area
                      of climate change, and so many other areas. Do we
                      just give up in these areas? if not, why in the
                      area of Internet governance? Consensus on concepts
                      and principles emerge as a part of a process
                      towards development of global principles and
                      agreements and not a as a pre condition of them.
                      This is universally known. One can understand why
                      US wants to protect the status quo, but why civil
                      society? <br>
                      <br>
                      Again, this is simply a statement for maintaining
                      the Internet power status quo... Dont do it at the
                      ITU, but we wont tell you where to do either....
                      Supporting this statement in my view will simply
                      be to support the global Internet status quo....<br>
                      <br>
                      Yes, we need to reform the ITU, but seeking simple
                      withdrawal of all Internet policy related agenda
                      from global governance stage is very problematic.
                      As this agenda is withdrawn from the global stage,
                      the dominant political and economic forces get a
                      free reign, and the little policy that needs to be
                      made is made at plurilateral forums like the OECD,
                      or the Trans-Pacific Partnership or TPP (see</font><font
                      face="Verdana"> for instance</font><font
                      face="Verdana">, just the day before's news,  <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://infojustice.org/archives/33428"
                        target="_blank">http://infojustice.org/archives/33428</a>,
                      on how TPP seeks to regulate global IP TV
                      transmissions). <br>
                      <br>
                      Such statements as this one simply clear the way
                      for such rule of the economically and politically
                      powerful...<br>
                      <br>
                      parminder<br>
                       <br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                    </font>
                    <div>On Tuesday 21 October 2014 02:08 AM, Anne
                      Jellema wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <div dir="ltr">Dear colleagues
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px">As
                            you know, a fluid working group was formed
                            after the IGF to try to come up with joint
                            recommendations for the ITU Plenipot. We
                            produced the open letter on transparency and
                            participation in the Plenipot process
                            itself, which many of you signed (thank
                            you!). Our second and harder task was to
                            develop positions on some of the most
                            important substantive issues before the
                            conference. The output of this second phase
                            of our work is a 7 page lobby document that
                            is now available for endorsement for the
                            next 24 hours at:</div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px"><br>
                          </div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px"><span><span
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:transparent;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri;WHITE-SPACE:pre-wrap;COLOR:rgb(255,0,0);FONT-SIZE:13px;VERTICAL-ALIGN:baseline;FONT-WEIGHT:bold"><a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="http://bestbits.net/itu-plenipot-notes"
                                  target="_blank">http://bestbits.net/itu-plenipot-notes</a></span></span><br>
                          </div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px"><br>
                          </div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px">The
                            fluid working group struggled to obtain the
                            conference proposals on which to base our
                            analysis and recommendations, both because
                            of the ITU's restrictions on document access
                            and because many Member States submitted
                            their proposals quite late in the day. As a
                            result, our drafting process has taken us
                            hard up against the start of the Plenipot
                            itself. </div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px"><span
                              style="FONT-SIZE:13px"><br>
                            </span></div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px"><span
                              style="FONT-SIZE:13px">It is now very
                              urgent to get this text in front of
                              delegations, so we are opening it for
                              endorsements rather than comment. If
                              however someone has a red flag,
                              "absolutely can't live with it" issue that
                              prevents them from signing on, they should
                              email me personally in the next 24 hours
                              to propose an edit(s) to resolve this
                              issue, and I will consult the other
                              members of the ITU fluid working group on
                              whether to accept this edit. </span></div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px"><br>
                          </div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px">Due
                            to the lack of time for comment and
                            consensus, we are not presenting these
                            recommendations in the name of Best Bits or
                            on behalf of civil society in general but
                            only on behalf of the specific organisations
                            endorsing. </div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px"><br>
                          </div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px">If
                            you would like your organisation to be
                            listed, please send your logo to Carolina
                            Rossini (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:crossini@publicknowledge.org"
                              target="_blank">crossini@publicknowledge.org</a>)
                            by 22:30 CET (16:30 EST) tomorrow, 21 Oct.</div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px"><br>
                          </div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px">Best
                            wishes</div>
                          <div
                            style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13px">Anne</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          -- <br>
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div
                              style="FONT-FAMILY:arial;FONT-SIZE:small"><font
                                style="FONT-SIZE:11px" face="'Lucida
                                Grande'">Anne Jellema </font></div>
                            <div
                              style="FONT-FAMILY:arial;FONT-SIZE:small"><font
                                style="FONT-SIZE:11px" face="'Lucida
                                Grande'">CEO <font color="#b8265c"> </font></font></div>
                            <div
                              style="FONT-FAMILY:arial;FONT-SIZE:small"><font
                                style="FONT-SIZE:11px" color="#000000"
                                face="'Lucida Grande'">+27 061 36
                                9352 (ZA) <br>
                              </font>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><font
                                  style="FONT-SIZE:11px" face="'Lucida
                                  Grande'"><font color="#000000">+1
                                    202 684 6885 (</font>US)</font></div>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><font
                                  style="FONT-SIZE:11px" face="'Lucida
                                  Grande'">@afjellema </font></div>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><b><span><span
                                      style="FONT-SIZE:11px"><br>
                                    </span></span></b></div>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><b><span><span
                                      style="FONT-SIZE:11px">World Wide
                                      Web Foundation | 1110 Vermont Ave
                                      NW, Suite 500, Washington DC,
                                      20005, USA | </span><span
                                      style="FONT-SIZE:11px"><a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        style="COLOR:rgb(17,85,204)"
                                        href="http://www.webfoundation.org/"
                                        target="_blank"><span
                                          style="COLOR:rgb(81,144,50);TEXT-DECORATION:none">www.webfoundation.org</span></a></span><span
                                      style="FONT-SIZE:11px"> | Twitter:
                                      @webfoundation</span></span></b><font
                                  face="verdana, sans-serif" size="1"> </font></div>
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                      <pre>____________________________________________________________
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            _______________________________________________<br>
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          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        -- <br>
        <div dir="ltr">
          <div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font
              style="font-size:11px" face="'Lucida Grande'">Anne
              Jellema </font></div>
          <div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font
              style="font-size:11px" face="'Lucida Grande'">CEO <font
                color="#b8265c"> </font></font></div>
          <div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font
              style="font-size:11px" color="#000000" face="'Lucida
              Grande'">+27 061 36 9352 (ZA) <br>
            </font>
            <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><font
                style="font-size:11px" face="'Lucida Grande'"><font
                  color="#000000">+1 202 684 6885 (</font>US)</font></div>
            <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><font
                style="font-size:11px" face="'Lucida Grande'">@afjellema </font></div>
            <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><b><span
                  style="font-family:'Lucida
                  Grande';color:rgb(81,144,50)"><span
                    style="font-size:11px"><br>
                  </span></span></b></div>
            <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><b><span
                  style="font-family:'Lucida
                  Grande';color:rgb(81,144,50)"><span
                    style="font-size:11px">World Wide Web Foundation
                    | 1110 Vermont Ave NW, Suite 500, Washington DC,
                    20005, USA | </span><span style="font-size:11px"><a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://www.webfoundation.org/"
                      style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank"><span
style="color:rgb(81,144,50);text-decoration:none">www.webfoundation.org</span></a></span><span
                    style="font-size:11px"> | Twitter: @webfoundation</span></span></b><font
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:IRP@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org">IRP@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a>
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