<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Quite amusing, George, to see you going after the UN over its alleged not-totally-representativity of the world's population. Do you know of another organization that would better cover the world? The WEF? The ICANN?<div><br></div><div>Just smiling a bit.</div><div><br></div><div>Taipei is here in Geneva as a delegation, and I am quite familiar with them. They know how to deal with this issue - may we remember that China is responsible for this situation and not the UN? They are for example doing quite a good job with WHO. A citizen from Taipei, member of JustNet or from ISOC has no problem to attend IGF. </div><div><br></div><div>Regarding Palestine, apart for the UN to be constantly spending years on the ground and being the largest operating body in this "country", the Palestinian Authority has now access to UNESCO, a small diplomatic victory. The UN is willing to have Palestine onboard. Israel and the US are not so keen to.</div><div><br></div><div>So what's your point here about the UN not being "good at" (what?). And do you best switch what has been launched under a UN umbrella, the IGF, to another umbrella - without its consent? Wasn't the letter by CS supposed to be sent to UN SG? If I follow you, then maybe this letter regarding the IGF should be sent to someone else? What are you thinking of? Looking for someone to come and point another UN caveat. Are you interesting to launch another UN-bashing campaign? Just trying to understand why you did that comment. So amusing that Suresh agrees fully with your comment by the way (Hi there Suresh)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>JC</div><div><div>
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-variant: normal; 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font-style: normal; "></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br></span>
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<br><div><div>Le 1 sept. 2014 à 16:54, George Sadowsky a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>All,<br><br>There is an issue that has not been mentioned in this thread. The UN is not totally representative of the world's population, and decisions regarding who is a members state and who is not are political decisions made by the UN General Assembly.<br><br>Case in point: no one from Taiwan is allowed to participate, even as a non-speaking participant, in the IGF. There was a rumor in Athens (2006) that a Taiwanese was planning to come, and those of us on the MAG at the time who were working the event were told to let management know if he showed up so that he could be denied admission.<br><br>Another case, in the opposite direction, is that of Palestine. It was finally allowed UN status in the 1990s only when Israel was unable to further block its entry, and then it was given 'observer status.' This delayed providing it with a country code, and therefore a country code TLD to be used in the territory and to be included in the DNS root zone.<br><br>I speak from personal involvement in both of those events. There are probably others which are similar and which I am not aware of.<br><br>So any move to unite the IGF and the UN can have consequences that are not foreseen, and and may well not be in the interests of democratic, bottom up, participatory activity. Please, in your enthusiasm, do not increase -- and decrease if possible -- your reliance upon UN administration/control/funding of future IGFs.<br><br>George <br><br><br><br><br>On Sep 1, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Carlos A. Afonso <<a href="mailto:ca@cafonso.ca">ca@cafonso.ca</a>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">If it has to become a formal body, I would not like to see it becoming a sort of UN agency. If it is not a UN agency, funding should come from other sources.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">--c.a.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On 09/01/2014 09:27 AM, parminder wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I support the call.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">It should be accompanied with the UN providing permanent institutional<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">funding for it. Nothing can be permanent and stable without clear and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">stable source of funding.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">BTW, the IGF is right now a 'project' of UNDESA, and projects normally<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">are not permanent. For being permanent it has to be an incorporated body<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">with institutional funding.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Anne, in the CSTD WG on IGF improvements, IT for Change and some<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">developing country asked for a part of domain names tax collected by<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ICANN to be dedicated to IGF funding. This has to be done in a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">statutory/ constitutional manner and not as ad hoc, upto ICANN, measure.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">parminder<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Monday 01 September 2014 02:13 PM, Anne Jellema wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Actually the point about stable and predictable funding - and I would<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">add to that, transparent and accountable financial management - seems<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">just as important as (and closely linked to) the permanent mandate.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">WF continues to advocate that a % of gTLD revenues be set aside for<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">this purpose, as well as for other public benefit purposes, but if it<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">is considered unwise to mix ICANN issues with IGF issues then perhaps<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">it's enough just to reference the need for expanded, predictable<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">funding that is transparently accounted for.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">cheers<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Anne<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Eduardo Bertoni<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><<a href="mailto:ebertoni@alumni.gwu.edu">ebertoni@alumni.gwu.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:ebertoni@alumni.gwu.edu">mailto:ebertoni@alumni.gwu.edu</a>>> wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> I support Joana´s idea re taking into account what the NetMundial<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> final declaration says. I would only add that the "next" IGF<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> should do better in linking its agenda and wok with the regional<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> IGFs.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> e<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Eduardo<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Joana Varon<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> <<a href="mailto:joana@varonferraz.com">joana@varonferraz.com</a> <<a href="mailto:joana@varonferraz.com">mailto:joana@varonferraz.com</a>>> wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Agree.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> At NETMundial final statement, this is what we have on IGF:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> "There is a need for a strengthened Internet Governance Forum<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> (IGF). Important recommendations to that end were made by the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> UN CSTD working group on IGF improvements. It is suggested<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> that these recommendations will be<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> implemented by the end of 2015. Improvements should include<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> inter-alia:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> a.Improved outcomes: Improvements can be implemented including<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> creative<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> ways of providing outcomes/recommendations and the analysis of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> policy options;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> b.Extending the IGF mandate beyond five-year terms;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> c. Ensuring guaranteed stable and predictable funding for the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> IGF, including<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> through a broadened donor base, is essential;<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> d. The IGF should adopt mechanisms to promote worldwide<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> discussions<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> between meetings through intersessional dialogues.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> A strengthened IGF could better serve as a platform for<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> discussing both long<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> standing and emerging issues with a view to contributing to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> the identification of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> possible ways to address them."<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> We could departure from that and add "ask the UN to make the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> IGF a permanent body instead of renewing its mandate for<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> another limited term of 5 or 10 years."<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> 1Net could also be a platform to facilitate this.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> best<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> joana<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 4:48 AM, João Carlos R. Caribé<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> <<a href="mailto:joao.caribe@me.com">joao.caribe@me.com</a> <<a href="mailto:joao.caribe@me.com">mailto:joao.caribe@me.com</a>>> wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Unfortunately I missed that meeting, so I full support<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> this idea count me on to support as I can.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> _<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> João Carlos Caribé<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> (021) 8761 1967<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> (021) 4042 7727<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Skype joaocaribe<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Enviado via iPad<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Em 01/09/2014, às 11:33, Jeanette Hofmann<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> <<a href="mailto:jeanette@wzb.eu">jeanette@wzb.eu</a> <<a href="mailto:jeanette@wzb.eu">mailto:jeanette@wzb.eu</a>>> escreveu:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi all,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">at the BB meeting yesterday we discussed the idea of a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> BB statement that would ask the UN to make the IGF a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> permanent body instead of renewing its mandate for another<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> limited term of 5 or 10 years.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">This idea found broad support among the attendees of the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> BB meeting.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Later on I discussed the content of such a statement<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> with other stakeholders at the IGF and I got the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> impression that we might be able to draft a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> cross-stakeholder statement together with the technical<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> community and the private sector. (Individual governments<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> support such a statement too but I am not sure it would be<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> possible within the few days available to coordiante<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> enough signatures by governments to make this an all<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> inclusive statement.)<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Right now, a multi-stakeholder statement coming out of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> this IGF is only an idea that needs further exploration<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> within the respective groups. So, with this email to the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> bb list and the IGC list I am asking for your opinions to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> find out if such a cross-stakeholder statement would find<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> support in civil society.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">jeanette<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">P.S. Lately, I have been unable to post to the IGC list.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> If this email does not appear on the IGC list, would<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> someone be so kind to forward it?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">____________________________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote 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