<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">No, the issue is not about how can we structure the best, more permanent home for the IGF, when CS writes to UN SG tomorrow.<div><br><div>It is first about creating a permanent "IGF", then to fund it decently, then to make it compliant with the Netmundial's idea of a democratic MS model.</div><div>So before taking IGF away from the UN, let's start to find unanimity over the next reasonable and achievable step.</div><div><br></div><div>Asking for the moon (new home for IGF) now is not constructive. It is not about the tone of anyone's email - between you and me, we might not like the same kind of wine, and this is still fine.</div><div><br></div><div>If CS wants to go forward and weight on the future of IG, there is only one way forward : unanimity. That would be the real message. A highly constructive one. Not starting again a discussion about the strong and weak points of any entity, now.</div><div><br></div><div>This is what is at stake, just over the next three days. That can be achieved.</div><div><br></div><div>JC<br><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; 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<br><div><div>Le 1 sept. 2014 à 21:48, George Sadowsky a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">I don't share your sense of humor and I do not find your tone constructive.<div><br></div><div>My point is that the UN as an organization is a creation of governments, and it responds through the political process to what governments want -- as it did when China caused the UN to expel Taiwan. Perhaps it's easier to see in the context of the ITU, one of the UN's specialized agencies.</div><div><br></div><div>My point is that the UN as an organization has its strong and its weak points. The discussion seemed to indicate a sense that the UN was a panacea to the problems of Internet governance. The issue is not whether there's a better organization that covers the world. The issue is how can we structure the best, more permanent home for the IGF that we want. The UN may be a part of how that home is provided, but it definitely should not dominate in any manner.</div><div><br></div><div>George<br><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Sep 1, 2014, at 1:44 PM, Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal <<a href="mailto:jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net">jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Quite amusing, George, to see you going after the UN over its alleged not-totally-representativity of the world's population. Do you know of another organization that would better cover the world? The WEF? The ICANN?<div><br></div><div>Just smiling a bit.</div><div><br></div><div>Taipei is here in Geneva as a delegation, and I am quite familiar with them. They know how to deal with this issue - may we remember that China is responsible for this situation and not the UN? They are for example doing quite a good job with WHO. A citizen from Taipei, member of JustNet or from ISOC has no problem to attend IGF. </div><div><br></div><div>Regarding Palestine, apart for the UN to be constantly spending years on the ground and being the largest operating body in this "country", the Palestinian Authority has now access to UNESCO, a small diplomatic victory. The UN is willing to have Palestine onboard. Israel and the US are not so keen to.</div><div><br></div><div>So what's your point here about the UN not being "good at" (what?). And do you best switch what has been launched under a UN umbrella, the IGF, to another umbrella - without its consent? Wasn't the letter by CS supposed to be sent to UN SG? If I follow you, then maybe this letter regarding the IGF should be sent to someone else? What are you thinking of? Looking for someone to come and point another UN caveat. Are you interesting to launch another UN-bashing campaign? Just trying to understand why you did that comment. So amusing that Suresh agrees fully with your comment by the way (Hi there Suresh)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>JC</div><div><div>
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<br><div><div>Le 1 sept. 2014 à 16:54, George Sadowsky a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">All,<br><br>There is an issue that has not been mentioned in this thread. The UN is not totally representative of the world's population, and decisions regarding who is a members state and who is not are political decisions made by the UN General Assembly.<br><br>Case in point: no one from Taiwan is allowed to participate, even as a non-speaking participant, in the IGF. There was a rumor in Athens (2006) that a Taiwanese was planning to come, and those of us on the MAG at the time who were working the event were told to let management know if he showed up so that he could be denied admission.<br><br>Another case, in the opposite direction, is that of Palestine. It was finally allowed UN status in the 1990s only when Israel was unable to further block its entry, and then it was given 'observer status.' This delayed providing it with a country code, and therefore a country code TLD to be used in the territory and to be included in the DNS root zone.<br><br>I speak from personal involvement in both of those events. There are probably others which are similar and which I am not aware of.<br><br>So any move to unite the IGF and the UN can have consequences that are not foreseen, and and may well not be in the interests of democratic, bottom up, participatory activity. Please, in your enthusiasm, do not increase -- and decrease if possible -- your reliance upon UN administration/control/funding of future IGFs.<br><br>George <br><br><br><br><br>On Sep 1, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Carlos A. Afonso <<a href="mailto:ca@cafonso.ca">ca@cafonso.ca</a>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">If it has to become a formal body, I would not like to see it becoming a sort of UN agency. If it is not a UN agency, funding should come from other sources.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">--c.a.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On 09/01/2014 09:27 AM, parminder wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I support the call.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">It should be accompanied with the UN providing permanent institutional<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">funding for it. Nothing can be permanent and stable without clear and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">stable source of funding.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">BTW, the IGF is right now a 'project' of UNDESA, and projects normally<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">are not permanent. For being permanent it has to be an incorporated body<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">with institutional funding.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Anne, in the CSTD WG on IGF improvements, IT for Change and some<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">developing country asked for a part of domain names tax collected by<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ICANN to be dedicated to IGF funding. This has to be done in a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">statutory/ constitutional manner and not as ad hoc, upto ICANN, measure.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">parminder<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Monday 01 September 2014 02:13 PM, Anne Jellema wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Actually the point about stable and predictable funding - and I would<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">add to that, transparent and accountable financial management - seems<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">just as important as (and closely linked to) the permanent mandate.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">WF continues to advocate that a % of gTLD revenues be set aside for<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">this purpose, as well as for other public benefit purposes, but if it<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">is considered unwise to mix ICANN issues with IGF issues then perhaps<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">it's enough just to reference the need for expanded, predictable<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">funding that is transparently accounted for.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">cheers<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Anne<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><br></div><div><<trimmed>></div><br></div></div></div>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, visit:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>For all other list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>