<div dir="ltr">+1 Avri. Couldn't agree more. Especially when these are people like Yaman Akdeniz who have written extensively on internet and human rights issues.<div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 1:47 AM, Avri Doria <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi,<br>
<br>
It think people boycotting the IGF will have a rich selection at the<br>
Ungoverance Forum (which I pref to think of as an IGFringe - something<br>
every IGF should have). I also think there is real value in boycotts.<br>
Especially when people not boycotting, work to make sure the message of<br>
the boycotters is brought into the boycotted event.<br>
<br>
For those of us not boycotting, we should find way to make sure the<br>
message of the boycotters is heard inside the IGF. I think visiting<br>
locations that are engaged in Autocracy 2.0 makes sense for something<br>
like the IGF, though best when there is an IGFringe and there is support<br>
for the boycott's message inside the venue. Locations still engaged in<br>
Autocracy 1.0 and those that are dangerous for groups like women and<br>
LGBTQI are best avoided.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
avri<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 24-Aug-14 15:08, Barry Shein wrote:<br>
><br>
> Thank you Siva.<br>
><br>
> The one exception I would add would be a situation where a venue made<br>
> certain potential attendees feel unsafe or unreasonably constrained.<br>
><br>
> For example there are venues where women would feel unsafe and at best<br>
> confined to airport<->hotel more or less. Those should be considered<br>
> unworkable venues. There are countries some can't travel to or only<br>
> with great bureaucratic difficulty as another example. There are other<br>
> analagous examples. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable traveling to<br>
> Mogadishu for a conference at present, or Mosul, though I hope that<br>
> will change one day.<br>
><br>
> As an act of protest, again, I think the press release has some merit<br>
> in raising awareness of an issue. But the actual act of boycott itself<br>
> is probably counter-productive. Perhaps a paradox, or just a<br>
> problematic approach.<br>
><br>
><br>
> From: Sivasubramanian M <<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> +1 Barry.<br>
><br>
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:14 AM, Barry Shein <<a href="mailto:bzs@world.std.com">bzs@world.std.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> From: Chinmayi Arun <<a href="mailto:chinmayiarun@gmail.com">chinmayiarun@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> I just ran into this piece<br>
>>> <<br>
>> <a href="http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/" target="_blank">http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society folks who will be at<br>
>>> the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant<br>
>>> internet-related concerns in Turkey.<br>
>><br>
>> Although I certainly understand the utility of making a statement vis<br>
>> a vis such a boycott I have a different view.<br>
>><br>
>> Personally I'd encourage an IGF in Pyongyang and everyone attend it.<br>
>><br>
>> To boycott such an event is, other than the hope someone might notice<br>
>> the press releases, nearly indistinguishable from being forbidden from<br>
>> attending.<br>
>><br>
>> Silence is silence.<br>
>><br>
>> I suppose if a boycott mounted to the point that it crippled or even<br>
>> cancelled the meeting that might attract some more attention to the<br>
>> underlying issue at least among the I* community. It hasn't gone<br>
>> unnoticed.<br>
>><br>
>> But to my mind better to bring everyone together in the clear light of<br>
>> day and confront these issues than to hope that one's non-appearance<br>
>> will effect a statement.<br>
>><br>
>> Notice, for example, some of the state pariahs who are welcomed to the<br>
>> United Nations and even given a podium.<br>
>><br>
>> It's not that I have a polyanna-ish hope in dialogue so much as a<br>
>> pessimistic view of non-dialogue.<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> -Barry Shein<br>
>><br>
>> The World | bzs@TheWorld.com |<br>
>> <a href="http://www.TheWorld.com" target="_blank">http://www.TheWorld.com</a><br>
>> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR,<br>
>> Canada<br>
>> Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*<br>
>><br>
>><br>
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>><br>
>><br>
> <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,=<br>
> sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#333333">+1 Barry.</div></div><div class=<br>
> =3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https:/=<br>
> /<a href="http://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy</a>" target=3D"_blank">Sivasubraman=<br>
> ian M</a><br><br>
> <br></div></div><br>
> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:14 AM, Barry S=<br>
> hein <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:<a href="mailto:bzs@world.std.com">bzs@world.std.com</a>" target=3D"_=<br>
> blank"><a href="mailto:bzs@world.std.com">bzs@world.std.com</a></a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai=<br>
> l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=<br>
> :1ex"><br>
> <br><br>
> From: Chinmayi Arun <<a href=3D"mailto:<a href="mailto:chinmayiarun@gmail.com">chinmayiarun@gmail.com</a>">chinmayia=<br>
> <a href="mailto:run@gmail.com">run@gmail.com</a></a>><br><br>
> <div class=3D"">>I just ran into this piece<br><br>
> </div>><<a href=3D"<a href="http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycottin=" target="_blank">http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2014/08/boycottin=</a><br>
> g-internet-governance-forum/" target=3D"_blank"><a href="http://www.indexoncensorshi" target="_blank">http://www.indexoncensorshi</a>=<br>
> <a href="http://p.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/" target="_blank">p.org/2014/08/boycotting-internet-governance-forum/</a></a>><br><br>
> <div class=3D"">>by Yaman Akdeniz and Kerem Altiparmak. Civil society fo=<br>
> lks who will be at<br><br>
> >the IGF this year may find it interesting- it flags significant<br><br>
> > internet-related concerns in Turkey.<br><br>
> <br><br>
> </div>Although I certainly understand the utility of making a statement vis=<br>
> <br><br>
> a vis such a boycott I have a different view.<br><br>
> <br><br>
> Personally I'd encourage an IGF in Pyongyang and everyone attend it.<br=<br>
>><br>
> <br><br>
> To boycott such an event is, other than the hope someone might notice<br><br>
> the press releases, nearly indistinguishable from being forbidden from<br><br>
> attending.<br><br>
> <br><br>
> Silence is silence.<br><br>
> <br><br>
> I suppose if a boycott mounted to the point that it crippled or even<br><br>
> cancelled the meeting that might attract some more attention to the<br><br>
> underlying issue at least among the I* community. It hasn't gone<br><br>
> unnoticed.<br><br>
> <br><br>
> But to my mind better to bring everyone together in the clear light of<br><br>
> day and confront these issues than to hope that one's non-appearance<br=<br>
>><br>
> will effect a statement.<br><br>
> <br><br>
> Notice, for example, some of the state pariahs who are welcomed to the<br><br>
> United Nations and even given a podium.<br><br>
> <br><br>
> It's not that I have a polyanna-ish hope in dialogue so much as a<br><br>
> pessimistic view of non-dialogue.<br><br>
> <span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br><br>
> --<br><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -Barry Shein<br><br>
> <br><br>
> The World=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | bzs@TheWorld.co=<br>
> m=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| <a href=3D"<a href="http://www.TheWorld." target="_blank">http://www.TheWorld.</a>=<br>
> com" target=3D"_blank"><a href="http://www.TheWorld.com" target="_blank">http://www.TheWorld.com</a></a><br><br>
> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | D=<br>
> ial-Up: US, PR, Canada<br><br>
> Software Tool & Die=C2=A0 =C2=A0 | Public Access Internet=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =<br>
> =C2=A0| SINCE 1989=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*oo*<br><br>
> <br><br>
> </font></span><br>_________________________________________________________=<br>
> ___<br><br>
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> <br></blockquote></div><br></div><br>
><br>
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